:01:18. > :01:21.Could Britain thrive and prosper In the North East and Cumbria:
:01:21. > :01:26.The council that's giving 2,000 of its staff a pay rise, despite
:01:26. > :01:36.millions of pounds of cuts. Could helping the lowest paid kick-
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :36:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2064 seconds
:36:00. > :36:04.Hello and the warmest of welcomes do your local part of the show. It
:36:04. > :36:08.may be the age of austerity but 2000 staff at this North East
:36:08. > :36:18.council are getting a pay rise. It is part of the campaign to give low
:36:18. > :36:19.
:36:19. > :36:27.paid workers a living wage. The MP for Redcar, Ian Swales, and
:36:27. > :36:33.Durham MP better lap onwards. -- Roberta Blackman-Woods. Wind farms.
:36:33. > :36:38.Which side are you on? I support them there. I have opposed one in
:36:38. > :36:45.my constituency in A&P Tees got but I am watching an offshore wind farm
:36:45. > :36:50.being built Wright. I am delighted to see that development of the
:36:50. > :36:54.beach. In the right place, I'm totally supportive of wind farms.
:36:54. > :37:02.There are a lot of people in County Durham who like to see the end of
:37:02. > :37:05.wind farms. What would Labour do? First of all, it is outrageous to
:37:06. > :37:10.have more on this from the Government this week. I have not
:37:10. > :37:14.got a clear energy policy will stop we are going to grow our economy.
:37:14. > :37:18.Businesses need to know what our energy sources are going to be in
:37:18. > :37:21.the future. I do think the Government have to get their act
:37:21. > :37:26.together on this. Labour thinks there should be a local decision
:37:26. > :37:31.and we want to make sure people are able to use the planning process to
:37:31. > :37:34.get wind farms or oppose them as they see fit. We will return to
:37:34. > :37:39.wind farms. In these days of austerity, local
:37:39. > :37:42.councils are having to make big cutbacks so it might come as a
:37:42. > :37:47.surprise that one local authority in the North East in giving a pay
:37:47. > :37:51.rise to 2000 of its lowest paid workers. More councils could be an
:37:52. > :37:55.act to follow suit. For 15 years, cleaner Marlene has
:37:55. > :38:03.helped keep the Civic Centre spick- and-span. Now she will get a pay
:38:03. > :38:08.rise, pushing her wages up by a back �170 a month. It will make a
:38:08. > :38:15.big difference. You try to cut down on your future pink, your bills,
:38:15. > :38:21.everything. That little bit extra, which is a lot, really, is
:38:22. > :38:25.excellent for me and everybody else here. She'll get a rise along with
:38:25. > :38:29.about 2000 other staff at Newcastle City Council. That is because the
:38:29. > :38:34.council has decided to adopt so called living wage. This will be
:38:34. > :38:40.sampans 20 an hour, just over �1 more than the national minimum wage.
:38:40. > :38:45.It will cost the council an extra �1 million in a year, which will be
:38:45. > :38:50.met through internal efficiencies. We recognised in the council be in
:38:50. > :38:57.pink people a proper rate for their work and minimum wage is not enough
:38:57. > :39:01.to live on. So we thought it was a good idea. Eta has been introduced
:39:01. > :39:05.to ten or 12 years ago elsewhere in the country. We asked an
:39:05. > :39:12.independent panel to investigate it for us. The council also claims
:39:12. > :39:16.paying staff more will keep their local economy a shop in the arm.
:39:16. > :39:22.Many that his pay due less well-off workers ends up in the local
:39:22. > :39:25.economy. -- money paid to less well off workers. It will be spent in
:39:25. > :39:34.local shops. It is not just Newcastle City Council. These are
:39:35. > :39:39.my politics -- the Sunday Politics has learnt that Sunderland will
:39:39. > :39:45.introduce the idea and other councils may follow suit. But
:39:45. > :39:50.surely higher wages brings more cost and less profit? Not so, says
:39:50. > :39:53.one fan who has studied be living wage. The makes people more
:39:53. > :40:01.comfortable in the drop in the longer term. They are more
:40:01. > :40:07.committed to their employer. Attention, sickness, all of these
:40:07. > :40:16.things that build towards private dignity -- productivity, benefit
:40:16. > :40:22.the business. His bakery opened earlier this year. It is run by
:40:22. > :40:26.Neil Le Flohic. He is weighed down by a VAT, National Insurance and
:40:26. > :40:32.business rates. He would like a bit more help from the Government and
:40:32. > :40:38.council. Until then, he cannot afford to pay a living wage. At the
:40:38. > :40:45.moment I was paid less than any one of white staff. If there was more
:40:45. > :40:48.money I would like to pay my staff more. Unless I am paying living
:40:48. > :40:52.wage either will be difficult to keep them wrong turn. But if there
:40:53. > :40:57.was a little more flexibility in the way things go in business I
:40:57. > :41:00.would be able to do that. A living wage for workers could pay
:41:01. > :41:07.dividends for the economy, boosting spending and bringing in millions
:41:07. > :41:12.in revenue for the Treasury. But there is a fear that bringing up
:41:12. > :41:18.council wages means it is less attractive for people to work in
:41:18. > :41:21.the private sector. Let's talk to Ted Salmon, regional
:41:21. > :41:25.chairman for the Federation of Small Businesses in the North East.
:41:25. > :41:32.You have heard the arguments. Why can't the private sector adopt
:41:32. > :41:35.this? What you will find really is that the minimum wage is the
:41:35. > :41:40.requirement and the giving weight is the aspirational part of it. For
:41:40. > :41:44.a lot of small businesses, they paid significantly above the
:41:44. > :41:49.minimum wage because, as the gentleman was saying in the film,
:41:49. > :41:54.it adds to the retention, to the motivation of the staff.
:41:54. > :41:58.everyone is doing this. everyone can afford to but where a
:41:58. > :42:06.business can afford to, a small business, they tend to do that.
:42:06. > :42:13.Should more of them do it? Ideally, yes. Tell us what is stopping some
:42:13. > :42:17.businesses. It comes down to all the requirements that are on
:42:17. > :42:22.business, and people will say, though, it is just another �1 an
:42:22. > :42:29.hour but you have fuel costs that have gone up, you are elected costs,
:42:29. > :42:32.business rates, next year we're going to have HMRC bringing in the
:42:32. > :42:37.live accounting element, so that is going to take up more staff time,
:42:37. > :42:42.so that is another drain on resources. It is a bit like the
:42:42. > :42:50.principle of, oh, back will only take five minutes. There is only a
:42:50. > :42:55.finite amount of five minutes. you see these making it up harder
:42:55. > :43:02.for the private sector of the -- can you see these making it harder
:43:02. > :43:10.for the private sector to retain staff? No, 80% of people looking
:43:10. > :43:18.for work are going to get a job in the private sector. 95 % of those
:43:19. > :43:25.are going to be in the small and micro business sector. It is not
:43:25. > :43:32.such a problem, in your view? less of a problem than some people
:43:32. > :43:36.think. Would you like to see Durham committed this? Very much. I am
:43:36. > :43:42.pleased Newcastle City Council is leading the way in the region. I
:43:42. > :43:47.think that from the beginning of November, paying the living wage is
:43:47. > :43:51.a really important concept because I think it helps us understand the
:43:51. > :43:54.amount of money people need to be paid to be able to meet their
:43:54. > :43:59.everyday living expenses and it is really good that local authorities
:43:59. > :44:03.are also thinking about how to use their procurement processes so when
:44:03. > :44:05.they are pig during services from the private sector, they look at
:44:05. > :44:11.whether those private sector organisations can also pay the
:44:11. > :44:16.living wage. Isn't this rather strange that the council's
:44:16. > :44:22.marketing jobs and everything and certainly they can add �1 million
:44:22. > :44:27.to get wage bill. I did not think they find it easily. But they find
:44:27. > :44:31.it. I understand it is from cutting management costs, but it is a
:44:31. > :44:35.really good set of priorities for them to have because this is
:44:35. > :44:39.putting more money into the local economy. It should reduce the
:44:39. > :44:44.amount that people are having to climb on tax credits, and it is
:44:44. > :44:49.giving people a living wage which is important. Ian Swales, do you by
:44:49. > :44:57.the economic arguments for this, that it will stimulate grades?
:44:57. > :45:03.Sudhir pier putting more money into the local economy is a good thing.
:45:03. > :45:07.We have not talked about taxes. One of the good things that the Labour
:45:07. > :45:14.Government did was to bring in the minimum wage but I cannot forgive
:45:14. > :45:20.them for giving a �1,000 tax bill to people on the minimum wage.
:45:20. > :45:27.living wage, do you agree with it? It is an aspiration, as the FSB is
:45:27. > :45:30.there. I aspirations seldom happened! This is one figure for
:45:30. > :45:38.the entire country, so what people need to live on depends a lot on
:45:38. > :45:45.where they live, accommodation costs, transport costs. He dues a
:45:45. > :45:49.different figure for London. Yes, �1 and the hour mall. If councils
:45:49. > :45:56.can afford his money, shouldn't they pass it on to the council
:45:56. > :46:02.taxpayer? That is another way but you help that does not just help
:46:02. > :46:08.the workers of the council. Yes, but some council workers are paid
:46:08. > :46:18.to extremely low Paris. Council-tax payers are extremely hard pressed
:46:18. > :46:26.at the moment. A lot of North East councils did not freeze a council
:46:26. > :46:29.tax and they are giving that many await you workers. This will
:46:29. > :46:34.infuriate people the basic council workers getting pay rises whereas
:46:34. > :46:38.council tax goes up next year. said, a lot of councils are trying
:46:38. > :46:41.to use their procurement policies to ensure that these goals and them
:46:41. > :46:47.to the private-sector where it is possible to do that, and council
:46:47. > :46:53.tax bills have been frozen pretty much across the piece. But you
:46:53. > :46:58.could offer a cut. You put his �1 million into a budget. You can even
:46:58. > :47:03.save a service or but the council tax. Instead councils are choosing
:47:03. > :47:11.to pay their staff more. But my point is his and important to be
:47:11. > :47:14.moving towards a wage that means people can feed their families well,
:47:14. > :47:17.clothe their families well, and as a society we should be moving
:47:17. > :47:21.towards paying people a living wage?
:47:21. > :47:26.You may well remember the terrible events of New Year's Day. The
:47:26. > :47:31.County Durham village of court and where three people were shot dead.
:47:31. > :47:37.The man who did it, Michael Atherton, had a licence to own his
:47:37. > :47:41.firearms quite legally and that has prompted an MP to demand action.
:47:41. > :47:44.Susan McGoldrick and Alison and Tanya Turnbull, all shot on my
:47:44. > :47:49.year's Day. The families believe their killer, Michael Atherton,
:47:49. > :47:55.should never have been allowed to go and the shop and he turned on
:47:55. > :48:01.them. They are petitioning for the gun laws to be strengthened. -- the
:48:01. > :48:05.shotgun he turned on them. I would not want anyone else to go
:48:05. > :48:10.through what we went through it. It is the worst possible thing ever.
:48:10. > :48:16.When you find out it could have been prevented, it is just a double
:48:16. > :48:22.blow. The people you loved the most in the world could still be with
:48:22. > :48:27.you had it not been for mistakes that were made. That is why I want
:48:27. > :48:31.them to be corrected. David and his family have the support of their
:48:31. > :48:38.local MP, Grahame Morris, who backed their calls in the Commons
:48:38. > :48:42.this week. It is difficult to understand why someone would need
:48:43. > :48:46.access in the domestic setting to firearms. What the MP and the
:48:46. > :48:51.family want is a single authority to take over the licensing of
:48:51. > :48:55.firearms for the different police authorities. They want them to be
:48:55. > :48:59.able to do medical checks on applicants and to check with
:48:59. > :49:04.partners and ex-partners of applicants to see whether they are
:49:04. > :49:08.a suitable person to have a shotgun in their home. Some of the laws are
:49:08. > :49:18.tight enough already. They just need to be applied probably to
:49:18. > :49:19.
:49:19. > :49:25.prevent more bats. -- deaths. can see how much bother it might
:49:25. > :49:32.cause to consult partners and ex- partners. The problem we -- with a
:49:32. > :49:37.bureaucratic hurdles is that they create diversions. Ministers say
:49:37. > :49:40.gun laws remain under review but no decision will be taken until the
:49:40. > :49:46.report into the Horden shootings is published next year.
:49:46. > :49:52.What the family are swaying -- St Bees the Government is dragging its
:49:52. > :49:59.heels. -- what the family is saying is that the Government is dragging
:49:59. > :50:05.its heels. This was a tragic case. Frankly, these cases are rare, that
:50:05. > :50:08.legal guns are involved. But each case is tragic. Certainly, we have
:50:08. > :50:18.some are the strongest gunwales in the world in this country but there
:50:18. > :50:19.
:50:19. > :50:25.is always room for improvement. -- gun laws. I am sure you will be
:50:25. > :50:31.sympathetic as well, but there are 34 pieces of legislation
:50:31. > :50:37.controlling the M licensing. Do really need any more legislation?
:50:37. > :50:43.agree with Ian at incidents such as this one Aap frankly Barry rare in
:50:43. > :50:48.this country but I was very disappointed with the minister's
:50:48. > :50:52.response to Graham's excellent debate. He braced for very
:50:52. > :50:57.interesting and straightforward points, that the whole system needs
:50:57. > :51:01.to be simplified. There is too much regulation that police forces need
:51:01. > :51:07.more guidance so that areas consistency, and we need to
:51:07. > :51:12.understand more why some people need guns. It seemed to me that
:51:12. > :51:16.once a set of very sensible proposals that could be paid for by
:51:16. > :51:22.up in the licence fee for having guns. I be the Government could
:51:22. > :51:26.implement the sensible proposals easily. The danger is it causes
:51:26. > :51:31.immense problems in bureaucracy because if you have this idea of
:51:31. > :51:36.getting your ex-partner, for instance, to sign the form and if
:51:36. > :51:39.they do not there will be an investigation, that will have
:51:39. > :51:46.police in besting the people who -- investigating people who are
:51:46. > :51:50.innocent. The need to understand better why some people the guns and
:51:50. > :51:55.they should be more investigation, but what Grahame Morris was calling
:51:55. > :51:59.for is the cutting of bureaucracy. There are lots of different systems
:51:59. > :52:04.operating at different pieces of legislation. It would be much
:52:04. > :52:09.better to streamline the process. Ian Swales, can we ever legislate
:52:09. > :52:14.to prevent incidents like this? There always be some particular
:52:14. > :52:24.circumstances, and a lot of guns are obtained illegally. That is
:52:24. > :52:26.
:52:26. > :52:31.right. The majority of gun crime is illegally obtained guns. Did is not
:52:31. > :52:39.a crime at the moment to lend A8 gun to a criminal who is done
:52:39. > :52:45.registered. Where you have people few legally owned guns, you cannot
:52:45. > :52:51.ever legislate for a single rogue person carrying back some a trustee,
:52:51. > :52:54.unfortunately. In the days when Britain was an
:52:54. > :53:00.economic powerhouse, it was places like Sunderland, Middlesbrough and
:53:00. > :53:05.Gateshead that often lent the way. Now it seems the Government he
:53:05. > :53:10.drank to turn the clock back a bit. Here is more on that and the rest
:53:10. > :53:14.of the week's political news. Sunderland is one of 20 CAA is
:53:14. > :53:19.invited to bid for new powers on the City Deal programme. Heseltine
:53:19. > :53:24.says it is time to unleash the prop Newcastle and other crack it cities
:53:24. > :53:28.and end the over-dependence on London. He urged in a report the
:53:28. > :53:32.Government to give extra money to Local Enterprise Partnerships.
:53:32. > :53:36.they are not doing it well enough, help them become stronger because
:53:36. > :53:42.what you really have got to try to get hold of is the dynamism of
:53:42. > :53:48.England's provincial cities and the states abandoned. Do south --
:53:48. > :53:53.Stockton Southend MP joined Conservative rebels who called for
:53:53. > :54:01.a cut in the EU budget this week. A plea to help the great British
:54:01. > :54:10.pub from Hartlepool MP Mr Wright. Labour will this afternoon select
:54:10. > :54:15.their candidate for the Labour that -- Middlesbrough by election.
:54:15. > :54:22.Not many people in this part of the world will disagree with lord
:54:22. > :54:25.Heseltine that his time to balance the over-reliance on London. Isn't
:54:26. > :54:31.Michael Heseltine trying to solve a problem that your Government
:54:31. > :54:35.created? You scrapped the regional development agencies. The old
:54:35. > :54:40.system was one size fits all and there were any 12 regional
:54:40. > :54:50.development agencies. We have already had La Cenerentola its city
:54:50. > :54:56.
:54:56. > :55:03.deals and this is for another 20,. -- we have already had eight deals.
:55:03. > :55:06.Michael Heseltine is right, is keen not, they have not even the Local
:55:06. > :55:12.Enterprise Partnerships the resources they need? The most
:55:12. > :55:17.important part of local enterprise partnerships is that they are just
:55:17. > :55:21.that, partnerships. Under-resourced and underpowered? In many parts of
:55:21. > :55:27.the country they are doing very good work already, including BT's
:55:27. > :55:33.Aleph. One are the most important things is all regions to decide for
:55:33. > :55:41.themselves. Westminster will not tell the region's what to do in the
:55:41. > :55:48.way it used to. Isn't it worrying that the vision here is coming from
:55:48. > :55:52.a accepted in -- septuagenarian Tory peer rather than Ed Miliband?
:55:52. > :55:57.What is important is that CAA -- he sees the role of Government
:55:57. > :56:02.differently to the commission. He says the Government needs a Prior
:56:02. > :56:07.growth strategy, they need a growth council to drive through changes
:56:07. > :56:12.that will support businesses, and of course they want more powers
:56:12. > :56:16.given, and more money given to Local Enterprise Partnerships, or
:56:16. > :56:22.to a level below them. Hesleden is not sure that they are the right
:56:22. > :56:28.level. Will Labour Pool B its money where its mouth is by saying, we
:56:28. > :56:32.will do this? The sad think I find reading it is that it is about
:56:32. > :56:36.having one pot of money and not the system we have under this
:56:36. > :56:41.Government. It is about having a five-year regional economic
:56:41. > :56:45.strategy which seems to me to be a really good thing to have and it is
:56:45. > :56:49.all of those things that were lost when we had the regional Duvall at
:56:49. > :56:56.that age has done away with. Local Enterprise Partnerships are not
:56:56. > :57:00.delivering. I hope that both Labour and this Government take the sport
:57:00. > :57:08.seriously, because there is a lot of good stuff in it. The problem is,
:57:08. > :57:12.to be blunt, you would not like to see a lot of this implemented,
:57:12. > :57:21.because of the Galarza B of your coalition partners. I would not
:57:21. > :57:28.agree. Hesselink says the Government's goal is to step back
:57:28. > :57:33.from the economy and let the regions do their thing. We have
:57:33. > :57:39.been putting a billion pounds in two regions like arts and 100
:57:39. > :57:43.McReady �5 million into the North East just two weeks ago. Is no
:57:43. > :57:48.strategic oversight. No printing money to particular sectors of the
:57:48. > :57:55.economy that will really deliver growth in the future. It is a
:57:55. > :57:59.scattergun approach. It is what we know it's there in the region.
:57:59. > :58:06.irony is that lord Heseltine is chair of the Regional Growth Fund.
:58:06. > :58:11.He is saying we must amalgamate. There are 14 budgets in the region.
:58:11. > :58:15.He is saying we need a single but it and it needs strategic direction
:58:15. > :58:21.and local control as far. That is reasonable.
:58:21. > :58:28.That is acute. Before we go, details of special police -- that
:58:28. > :58:35.is it. Before we go, gig as are a special programme on the police
:58:35. > :58:42.derision at elections. That is Horden -- that is Police Elections