:00:41. > :00:51.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The gloves are off, it's all guns
:00:51. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :01:32.blazing as the parties fight it out In the north-east and Cumbria, a
:01:32. > :01:37.rethink on Newcastle's cuts. We talk to the council leader. And are
:01:37. > :01:47.disabled people being treated fairly by the Government's will for
:01:47. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :37:43.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2156 seconds
:37:43. > :37:46.First up: there's been many local council cuts - and many protests.
:37:46. > :37:50.But nothing has made headlines quite like Newcastle Council's
:37:50. > :37:52.decision to axe 100 per cent of its arts budget - along with ten of its
:37:52. > :37:55.public libraries. But after a ferocious spat with leading lights
:37:55. > :37:58.in the arts world and some unwelcome national publicity, comes
:37:58. > :38:01.a re-think. The leader of the council, Nick Forbes, joins me now.
:38:01. > :38:04.You have now found �600,000 to go into a fund to help the arts groups.
:38:04. > :38:08.Was this a massive No -- massive miscalculation? There has been an
:38:08. > :38:14.intervention from Harriet Harman. It is quickly -- pretty humiliating,
:38:14. > :38:20.isn't it? A no one questions the value of the arts and culture. The
:38:20. > :38:24.question is about how to fund them when the arts are competing for
:38:24. > :38:28.funding with things like rubbish collection and social cool for the
:38:28. > :38:33.elderly. What we have come up with is an innovative and creative way
:38:33. > :38:37.of funding the arts from switching from revenue subsidy to Capital
:38:37. > :38:43.Investment model by setting up an investment fund for culture and the
:38:43. > :38:47.arts in Newcastle. Nothing to do with that, was it, Harriet Harman,
:38:47. > :38:51.telling you to get your act together? I spoke to run a week
:38:51. > :38:56.before their Nisbet to tell them what we were doing. She was
:38:56. > :39:01.absolutely delighted with it. This is work that has been in progress
:39:01. > :39:05.for a very long period of time. We have been discussing this with arts
:39:05. > :39:13.organisations and the Arts Council since last December. There seems to
:39:13. > :39:18.be a pattern with this Budget. Some libraries and swimming pools of,
:39:18. > :39:25.closing, some not, but you seem to have no choice to cut these, and
:39:25. > :39:28.now it seems there is a choice. What are we to believe? The reason
:39:28. > :39:31.why we have had a three-month consultation is to allow people to
:39:32. > :39:35.think of alternatives. We have not said that we are going to pass on
:39:35. > :39:39.the cuts down the line. We have said this is what will happen if we
:39:39. > :39:44.do not do something different. And communities have responded
:39:44. > :39:49.magnificently over the last three months. Where we had, for example...
:39:49. > :39:54.There is not any extra money. What people have come up with his
:39:54. > :40:00.creative solutions and ways of doing things like delivering
:40:00. > :40:04.libraries in partnership. One for every respite care centres for
:40:04. > :40:08.disabled children? The threat to close them caused families
:40:08. > :40:13.immeasurable stress. A Labour MP in the city has said that you could
:40:13. > :40:18.have stopped families having that stress. During the consultation
:40:18. > :40:22.process similar units have closed in North Tyneside and in Hexham.
:40:22. > :40:27.We're not think it is appropriate to abandon families at a time when
:40:27. > :40:32.there is no other alternative. it that you have to put those
:40:32. > :40:36.families through this? The families have come up with good ideas about
:40:36. > :40:41.how we could extend the building and market the service is better
:40:41. > :40:45.and get better use out of the existing capacity. What we're doing
:40:45. > :40:50.is committing to exploring all the alternatives. That is the
:40:50. > :40:56.responsible thing to do at a time when we are facing unprecedented
:40:56. > :41:02.cuts. You make embarrassing cost to the Government, dramatic cuts, then
:41:02. > :41:07.you think again. The sky has not fallen in. Newcastle still faces
:41:07. > :41:11.�100 million worth of cuts. We have had an honest, opulent conversation
:41:11. > :41:16.about what those cuts mean in practice and how the City can work
:41:16. > :41:19.together to mitigate against the worst excesses of them. These cuts
:41:19. > :41:22.are still damaging in many ways, and there are further cuts down the
:41:22. > :41:26.line which the Government says it is going to announce in future
:41:27. > :41:33.years, and that fills me with fear for the future of our public
:41:33. > :41:38.services. This is exactly what Eric Pickles and the Government one, big
:41:38. > :41:43.cuts from government making council leaders having to get all the blame.
:41:43. > :41:48.They have to make difficult decisions. I wish that there had
:41:48. > :41:53.not been as political grandstanding going on before the decisions are
:41:53. > :41:57.taken. It sounds to me as if to save a number of services which the
:41:57. > :42:01.City would clearly like to save, the council is at long last looking
:42:01. > :42:04.at alternative ways of funding them. That is the very thing that has to
:42:04. > :42:11.be done when you have economic pressures of the kind that we
:42:11. > :42:14.currently have. That is not good enough. It is �100 million. He says
:42:14. > :42:18.that there are still huge amounts of cuts that have been passed on by
:42:18. > :42:22.the Government. It is exactly what the Government wants, to pass the
:42:22. > :42:26.blame along the line, to pass the buck. We all know that this country
:42:26. > :42:30.has had a very tough time. We know that the last government left us
:42:30. > :42:34.with a massive debt, and that applies to Labour-run authorities
:42:34. > :42:38.as well as others that they might have got to cut their cloth
:42:38. > :42:41.according to what is there. But, grandstanding like has been going
:42:41. > :42:45.on in Newcastle, taking it to the brink and worrying people
:42:45. > :42:51.unnecessarily, when other ideas could have been brought forward
:42:51. > :42:57.sooner is, in my view, unacceptable. This is damaging to the region. We
:42:57. > :43:02.have had talk about other councils "not doing a Newcastle". It is not
:43:02. > :43:08.a great advert for the north-east. I have great sympathy with local
:43:09. > :43:13.authority leaders over the cuts they have to make. They have got to
:43:13. > :43:17.find �174 million worth of cuts over four years. That is a slash to
:43:17. > :43:21.the bone of services and will clean air. Things are very difficult that
:43:21. > :43:26.local authorities are having to do. I have got a lot of sympathy for
:43:26. > :43:30.the decisions being made, because they are very difficult. The cuts
:43:30. > :43:34.that we are facing in the North East are far worse than some of the
:43:35. > :43:39.local authorities down south. I would say to him that some of the
:43:39. > :43:44.cups and the South of England, Tory councils, not as bad as the ones
:43:44. > :43:48.we're being asked to make in the north-east. There are lots of
:43:48. > :43:52.council cuts and savings going on. Does it surprise you that the
:43:52. > :43:56.biggest fuss was about cuts to the arts, and not cuts that affect
:43:56. > :44:01.vulnerable people? Local authorities are having to make
:44:01. > :44:06.unbelievably difficult decisions. You try to make cuts that or save
:44:06. > :44:10.money in the short term. Lots of places round the country are
:44:10. > :44:16.cutting leisure centres, because that is seen as an easy way to save
:44:16. > :44:20.money. You wake up again social care or respite homes or old
:44:20. > :44:26.people's homes, those are things that you absolutely cannot cut
:44:26. > :44:33.without causing massive difficulties. It is a tough time
:44:33. > :44:41.right now. I do not end the anyone having to make those decisions. --
:44:41. > :44:45.envy anyone. Disability Living Allowance has long been the most
:44:45. > :44:48.common benefit paid to disabled people - both in and out of work.
:44:48. > :44:51.But that's about to change - and the North East and Cumbria will be
:44:52. > :44:54.one of the first parts of the UK to be affected. Our correspondent Mark
:44:54. > :44:57.Denten reports. There are just over 3 million people in the north-east
:44:57. > :45:00.and Cumbria. Among the crowds, there are six in with a 60,000 of
:45:00. > :45:04.us with disabilities. In a time of squeezed budgets, how do retarget
:45:04. > :45:10.many of those who need it most? Karen is an occupational therapist
:45:10. > :45:15.to became disabled through a back injury. Since then, work has become
:45:15. > :45:21.even more crucial. Without work I think I would not function. There
:45:21. > :45:26.are lots of disabled people who want to work. They would probably
:45:26. > :45:30.do anything just to be given that opportunity. Caroline faces extra
:45:30. > :45:33.costs getting around. The Disability Living Allowance helps,
:45:33. > :45:40.but a shake-up is coming. Disability Living Allowance
:45:40. > :45:45.claimants get up to �526 a month, but in the last year, the benefit
:45:45. > :45:48.cost that in �13.5 billion. Ministers say that that money could
:45:48. > :45:52.be targeted better solar system called personal independence
:45:52. > :45:57.payments is coming in. That will mean new assessments to decide what
:45:57. > :46:04.people get. That worries Karen. She is partially sighted, and she lives
:46:04. > :46:07.in Newcastle. When the weather is fine, she's out and about. She will
:46:07. > :46:13.be reassessed to see if she qualifies for the new benefit, as
:46:13. > :46:17.she has an unchanging condition. She does not understand why. It is
:46:17. > :46:21.not like having a bad back. If you have a bad back, you can have
:46:21. > :46:25.treatment and you can get better. Therefore, these are the people who
:46:25. > :46:30.should be targeted to get off Disability Living Allowance. Not
:46:30. > :46:35.people who have got an ongoing condition. Disabled people in this
:46:35. > :46:39.region will be among the first in the country to be affected by these
:46:39. > :46:44.changes, because by April, under a pilot scheme, new claimants will
:46:44. > :46:47.have to apply for that new benefit, personal independence payments, but
:46:47. > :46:52.eventually, all Disability Living Allowance claimants will be
:46:52. > :46:57.reassessed to see whether they qualify for the new benefit. Round
:46:57. > :47:01.here, that means thousands of people. Diane is not convinced
:47:01. > :47:04.those people will be fairly assessed. GS Employment Support
:47:04. > :47:08.Allowance and Disability living Allowance. After being diagnosed
:47:08. > :47:16.with breast cancer she had more bad news. I received a letter stating
:47:16. > :47:26.that I was fit for work along with my p 45. A how did you feel about
:47:26. > :47:30.
:47:30. > :47:35.that? The devastated and shocked. They cannot get that right, how can
:47:35. > :47:40.we expect them to get the Sea Benefit right? Diane is appealing
:47:40. > :47:44.against the assessment carried out by the private company, at odds.
:47:44. > :47:48.They say they works Whitley to Gately is given to them by the
:47:48. > :47:52.Government. Opposition MPs are concerned about the disability
:47:52. > :47:57.benefit changes. It is being driven solely by getting the finances
:47:57. > :48:02.stunned. But we also have to look after people properly. This benefit
:48:02. > :48:07.has been around for 20 years. But the % of people who have caught it
:48:07. > :48:11.do not have any corroborating medical evidence. Fear of targeting
:48:11. > :48:19.or blunt instrument? The Government begins phasing in the new system in
:48:19. > :48:24.just seven weeks. Everyone is in favour of people with genuine
:48:24. > :48:25.disabilities in getting the benefits they deserve, but only
:48:25. > :48:33.sure assessing people, there might be people who just do not need or
:48:33. > :48:37.deserve it. We have to again cut money from the welfare budget, but
:48:37. > :48:40.many concerns from disabled people are around the testing process. A
:48:40. > :48:44.lot of people have conditions that will not change and only ever get
:48:44. > :48:48.worse, and there is an argument about whether you have to be
:48:49. > :48:53.assessing all of those people. The new criteria for personal
:48:53. > :48:57.independence payment is much stricter. The Government said
:48:57. > :49:01.400,000 people will not make the transition from Disability Living
:49:01. > :49:07.Allowance to personal independence penis. And we're not going to know
:49:07. > :49:10.the real effect for another couple of years. A but you want more
:49:10. > :49:15.disabled people being given the opportunity to work and not rely on
:49:15. > :49:18.benefits. The Government always says it wants support to go to the
:49:18. > :49:21.people with the most need, and I have no difficulty with that, but
:49:21. > :49:28.the difficulty is with people who need that little extra bit of help
:49:28. > :49:31.and support. Disability living allowance gets disabled people rice
:49:31. > :49:36.to live in society, because it costs more to be disabled, to get
:49:36. > :49:42.to work, to have extra heating, or extra support at home to carry out
:49:42. > :49:45.daily tasks. The danger with slashing those benefits is, that we
:49:45. > :49:50.just push costs further down the line and we have people who need
:49:50. > :49:54.temporary residential care, much more help, and I would like to have
:49:54. > :49:59.seen a cumulative impact assessment, which did not happen, but we will
:49:59. > :50:03.find out in the next two years. this is short-sighted, if you're
:50:03. > :50:09.looking just to cut the welfare bill, have disabled people put into
:50:09. > :50:13.stress, losing benefits and ending up in crisis, so be it?
:50:13. > :50:16.Disability Living Allowance has been in place for 20 years. All the
:50:16. > :50:21.major parties agree that the kids to be reformed and reviewed,
:50:21. > :50:24.particularly with the changes in attitudes. Do you need to reassess
:50:24. > :50:31.people like Karen, who has a sight problem that is not going to
:50:31. > :50:34.change? I understand that. It is a sensitive area. But, the people who
:50:34. > :50:38.are currently on Disability Living Allowance, the vast majority of
:50:38. > :50:42.them are not going to be assessed or have changed or at least two
:50:42. > :50:46.years. While we see what happens with the new personal independence
:50:46. > :50:51.payment, which is concentrating on helping people live independent
:50:51. > :50:57.lives, concentrating on those in greatest need of help. What will
:50:57. > :51:01.happen is, this will come in in 2014, the Government are going to
:51:02. > :51:11.review his progress before we do anything brother with those who are
:51:11. > :51:16.currently on Disability Living Do you think the Government is
:51:16. > :51:22.having to clear up the mess that you left? When we left the benefits
:51:22. > :51:28.bill had gone down by �7.5 billion. With Disability Living Allowance,
:51:29. > :51:34.the Government is saying that it is going to a regime that is going to
:51:34. > :51:38.save us, 500,000 people not been able to migrate on to that. They
:51:38. > :51:44.have decided to make cuts, so the assessments have got to match that
:51:44. > :51:50.cut. I think they might have got it the wrong way round. The people who
:51:50. > :51:58.are going to suffer are those who are the most adorable. But the
:51:58. > :52:03.welfare bill is huge. -- the most vulnerable. Every single change,
:52:03. > :52:07.you will pause. Nobody is saying that there should not be some kind
:52:07. > :52:11.of assessment regime for Disability Living Allowance, but do the
:52:11. > :52:17.assessments and fit the budget accordingly. You do not make a cup
:52:17. > :52:21.of �2 billion, and say to 500,000 people, they are not going to be
:52:21. > :52:25.able to have the personal independence payment. Tanni Grey-
:52:25. > :52:31.Thompson, have you got evidence that the Government is picking on
:52:31. > :52:36.people, on David disabled? It is not as simple as that. The system
:52:36. > :52:45.has to be simplified, it has to be better, it has to save money. I do
:52:45. > :52:55.not think they have got the assessment process correct. 40% of
:52:55. > :52:56.
:52:56. > :52:59.appeals are successful. We need to do more to get the assessment right.
:52:59. > :53:02.Although one in six of the population has a disability, only a
:53:02. > :53:05.handful of our MPs are disabled. And it seems despite the success of
:53:05. > :53:07.the likes of Jack Ashley and David Blunkett, their political
:53:07. > :53:10.representation hasn't really improved substantially in recent
:53:10. > :53:13.years. The same appears to be true in our town halls. So what would it
:53:13. > :53:17.take to persuade more disabled people to put themselves up for
:53:18. > :53:22.election? Lynne Jefferies is a well-known face around York. She
:53:22. > :53:25.has campaigned on disability issues for 20 years. Labour offered her
:53:25. > :53:31.the chance to stand for the city council two years ago. After some
:53:31. > :53:37.thought, she said yes. I thought that if I was a councillor, that
:53:37. > :53:41.might make a difference, been part of the party machine rather than
:53:41. > :53:50.something outside. But last year, she quit the Labour group. She felt
:53:50. > :53:53.she was not being allowed to speak up on the issues she cares about.
:53:53. > :53:58.There was an attitude that disabled people are people that you do
:53:58. > :54:03.things for. And that is what councillors generally miss,
:54:03. > :54:07.people's experience of being a disabled person is so valuable. In
:54:07. > :54:12.terms of policy making. She remains on the council as an independent.
:54:12. > :54:17.But she's one of only a smattering of disabled councillors in the
:54:17. > :54:23.north. Steve Wilkinson is that kind of person you can imagine entering
:54:23. > :54:30.politics. A campaigner on disabled access, but as for running for
:54:30. > :54:35.office, he is not interested. of a first-past-the-post system.
:54:35. > :54:41.You're either going to hear the concerns of the Lib Dems or UKIP,
:54:41. > :54:50.or you will become independent and if I did, I would not be elected. I
:54:50. > :54:55.would not be able to represent the people that I did. Some believe
:54:55. > :55:01.that change is possible. I think that the person has got to be there,
:55:01. > :55:06.got to be supported, and in certain areas of their home life, but over
:55:06. > :55:10.the years, things will change, and we will get a much better mix.
:55:10. > :55:13.Those who have made it into politics believe attitudes to
:55:13. > :55:18.disabled people amongst parties will be harder to overcome than any
:55:18. > :55:21.physical barriers. What's of the barriers start because councillors
:55:21. > :55:27.do not engage properly with disabled people and unless we tried
:55:27. > :55:32.to do that we will not get people wanting to be councillors, to be
:55:32. > :55:35.honest. Tanni Grey-Thompson, you got into politics in any unusual
:55:35. > :55:42.way, but what do you think stops more disabled people getting into
:55:42. > :55:46.politics? A number of things. Often they do not know how to go about it.
:55:46. > :55:51.I am a crossbencher. I am in a privileged position to be able to
:55:51. > :55:55.see my mind and nobody can tell me off, for that. I was not elected.
:55:55. > :55:59.When we had a debate about how the Lords would be reformed, the only
:55:59. > :56:03.way I would be able to stand for election is as an independent and
:56:03. > :56:07.that is almost impossible to do. But many of the public are switched
:56:07. > :56:12.off by politics in general because it seems to be quite antagonistic.
:56:12. > :56:22.And most people want to be more collaborative, I think. It would
:56:22. > :56:23.
:56:23. > :56:26.you accept that political parties sure some of the blame? -- share.
:56:26. > :56:30.They share some of the blame but should also share some of the
:56:30. > :56:33.credit. Since I became an end p 35 years ago things have changed
:56:33. > :56:37.dramatically in terms of the attitudes displayed towards
:56:37. > :56:40.encouraging people with disability to get into public office. I have
:56:40. > :56:46.seen a dramatic change in that is all for the good, but we have got
:56:46. > :56:48.lots more to do. I think there are some good, positive sides to this,
:56:48. > :56:55.and a major party should do everything possible to encourage
:56:55. > :56:59.people to join us. What about all disabled shortlists, like you are
:56:59. > :57:03.all-women shortlists? It is something to consider. You want to
:57:03. > :57:07.see as many people from as many canes of backgrounds to be involved
:57:07. > :57:11.in politics, not just party politics. Do you think the party
:57:11. > :57:17.system is feeling? I think we have got to think on both sides of the
:57:17. > :57:20.House of Commons were you have got David Blunkett and Ann Begg on the
:57:20. > :57:29.Labour side, and you have others on the Conservative side making a
:57:29. > :57:32.great contribution to parliamentary life. Now it's Sunday lunchtime and
:57:32. > :57:35.I don't know about you but I just fancy one of those delicious beef
:57:35. > :57:39.ready meals I keep hearing all about on the news. But first let's
:57:39. > :57:47.tuck into the feast that is the week of politics in 60 seconds.
:57:47. > :57:53.Full of quality ingredients and not North Cumbria University NHS Trust
:57:53. > :57:58.and Carlisle is to investigate high mortality rates fall in the
:57:58. > :58:01.investigation at Stafford hospital. With concerns over horsemeat, when
:58:01. > :58:07.Newcastle MP asks what is in beefburgers? She says that poorer
:58:07. > :58:10.families worry most. Is he saying that in some of Fry's a beefburger,
:58:10. > :58:15.they have to research the entire supply chain rather than relying on
:58:15. > :58:20.the Government and the Secretary of State? Sedgefield MP Phil Wilson
:58:20. > :58:24.could be investigated in a row of a Petacci assembly plant. The
:58:24. > :58:30.Conservative MP says he did not declare �5,700 in donations before
:58:30. > :58:34.speaking about the project. Ian livery once the Football
:58:34. > :58:37.Association to give a more to the non-League game. And the Prime
:58:37. > :58:43.Minister praised Cumbria at a special event in the Commons. David
:58:43. > :58:51.Cameron said that Cumbria brought back happy memories of swimming in
:58:51. > :59:01.Ullswater. I bet he was freezing. Let's talk about this complaint
:59:01. > :59:03.
:59:03. > :59:08.that has been picked in. -- put in. About accepting money from Petacci?
:59:08. > :59:12.We had a anniversary dinner in November and Petacci agreed to be
:59:12. > :59:14.one of the sponsors. That edition was accepted in accordance with
:59:15. > :59:20.parliamentary rules. The parliamentary authorities were
:59:20. > :59:22.advised, every step of the way and it is fully transparent. What has
:59:22. > :59:27.happened is the Conservative headquarters have heard about it
:59:27. > :59:37.and tried to create some mischief. The complaint is that you asked
:59:37. > :59:37.
:59:37. > :59:41.questions in the Commons. I have made one speech. On 30th January,
:59:41. > :59:45.on Europe, in which I mentioned Petacci, and before I made the
:59:45. > :59:52.speech by spoke to the parliamentary authorities about,
:59:52. > :59:57.should I make a declaration, and I was advised not to. And that's
:59:58. > :00:01.about it from us. We're off for our half-term break next week but we'll
:00:01. > :00:04.be back on March 3 - when the MPs for Hexham and Easington will be