:01:21. > :01:23.In the North East and Cumbria: A region divided over Mrs Thatcher's
:01:23. > :01:26.legacy, we speak to her admirers and to the critics.
:01:27. > :01:36.Plus who'll come out on top in the county council elections? We report
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :38:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2183 seconds
:38:00. > :38:07.Hello and welcome to your local part of the show. What was Mrs
:38:07. > :38:12.Thatcher's legacy to the region? We will be asking her admirers and
:38:12. > :38:15.critics. And in 18 days, voters go to the polls but can the Liberal
:38:15. > :38:18.Democrats stay in charge in Northumberland? We will have the
:38:18. > :38:22.names of the candidates who want to be David Miliband's successor in
:38:22. > :38:27.South Shields. Where will you be when the funeral
:38:27. > :38:30.of Margaret Thatcher takes place on Wednesday? Many people want to pay
:38:30. > :38:33.tribute to what one more piece Conservative this week called the
:38:33. > :38:38.greatest leader of our age. But others in the former mining
:38:38. > :38:42.communities of County Durham will be celebrating her passing. This is
:38:42. > :38:46.the publicity for that party, it should have happened 50 years ago,
:38:46. > :38:50.better late than never, join us to celebrate the demise of one of the
:38:50. > :38:56.most hated figures in British politics. Is that tasteless and in
:38:56. > :39:02.appropriate? I understand people's views with regard to Margaret
:39:02. > :39:08.Thatcher, she was one of the most reviled politicians in the UK. It
:39:08. > :39:14.was the press who said she was loved or loathed in equal measures.
:39:14. > :39:19.I am in the latter category, I loathe her as a politician, because
:39:19. > :39:23.I was a young man fighting not for money and wages but for a future in
:39:23. > :39:28.my children and children's children. She took everything away from my
:39:28. > :39:34.communities. But that show a lack of respect? I am not sure who wrote
:39:34. > :39:38.that, it would not be the words that I would use. Your thoughts on
:39:38. > :39:42.parties to mark Margaret Thatcher's death? It demeans people that they
:39:42. > :39:49.have comments such as that. I understand their opinions on both
:39:49. > :39:56.sides, at the end of the day, she was an old lady, 87 years of age.
:39:56. > :39:59.She has children and grandchildren. To write comments like that is, it
:39:59. > :40:03.says more about the people who produce the comments like that.
:40:03. > :40:07.Most of them are too young to have remembered her legacy. They are
:40:07. > :40:14.judging it from false myths and news reports, they never lived
:40:14. > :40:18.through the Times. A lot of people would be the offended by the cost
:40:18. > :40:22.of the funeral. She was a prime minister she is entitled to a
:40:22. > :40:28.ceremonial funeral, I am sure other leaders will have the same. Most of
:40:28. > :40:32.the cost is about the security because of the anarchists and left
:40:32. > :40:36.wish -- left-wing demonstrators. There a lot of world leaders coming
:40:36. > :40:40.in for the funeral, they are entitled to protection. Other prime
:40:40. > :40:46.ministers have not have that in the past. The last from was Winston
:40:46. > :40:51.Churchill. Where should we draw the line between protest, even
:40:51. > :40:55.celebration of her death, and respect? It is reasonable that
:40:55. > :41:00.people respect -- protester during her time as Prime Minister, there
:41:00. > :41:04.were things that they disagreed with. Like the poll tax, although
:41:04. > :41:08.it sometimes went to violence, it was every reason to protest at a
:41:08. > :41:15.been grossly unfair. But when the woman dies many a year later, she
:41:15. > :41:19.is entitled to this respect. The Labour Party had time to reverse
:41:19. > :41:24.things that Mrs Thatcher did, they chose not to do so, because some
:41:24. > :41:31.other things were necessary, and others... We will discuss some of
:41:31. > :41:35.what she did and her legacy in a murmured. It is bitterly contested,
:41:35. > :41:39.the trade unions blame her for the closure of suedes of industry,
:41:39. > :41:49.whether it be steelmaking, coal- mining or shipbuilding. Her
:41:49. > :41:50.
:41:50. > :41:56.supporters say that the industries were dying anyway and she
:41:56. > :41:59.represented New Investment, for example in the Nissan plant. What
:41:59. > :42:09.would remain of the North's industrial base if Mrs Thatcher had
:42:09. > :42:12.
:42:12. > :42:16.Margaret Thatcher divides opinion, perhaps she always will. One thing
:42:16. > :42:21.is for certain. After she was Prime Minister, the North really did not
:42:21. > :42:26.look the same. Shipbuilding disappeared, mining went as well.
:42:26. > :42:31.Where I am standing now, there was once a steel works employing 4000
:42:31. > :42:36.people. Now we have got a cycle way and two rather interesting booking
:42:36. > :42:43.statues. What did the North East's industrial landscape have looked
:42:43. > :42:49.like without Margaret Thatcher? Near Sunderland, in the 1970s, this
:42:49. > :42:53.local pit employed 1300 workers, producing 3000 tonnes of coal a day.
:42:53. > :42:57.It closed in 1986. The blade and MP Dave Anderson used to work there
:42:57. > :43:06.and says without Mrs Thatcher and, it would be a thriving coal
:43:06. > :43:09.industry. She destroyed organised labour in this country, and that
:43:09. > :43:15.was mine workers. We had huge reserves of coal that could have
:43:15. > :43:23.still been tapped. We could have been working now. He would have at
:43:23. > :43:28.least had -- he would have had three pits in the north-east, there
:43:28. > :43:32.are four collieries that could have still produced coal. 25 miles away,
:43:32. > :43:38.an empty field, also once part of the north-east mining industry. It
:43:38. > :43:43.was Fishburn coke works. In the late Seventies, it provided 80% of
:43:43. > :43:46.male employment in the area. In 1986, it closed with the loss of
:43:46. > :43:50.250 jobs. Some say the mining industry would have declined
:43:50. > :43:55.without Margaret Thatcher. Durham coalfield was in decline for
:43:55. > :43:58.a very long period of time, since the end of the First World War. The
:43:58. > :44:04.Labour Party was tremendously involved in the pit closure
:44:04. > :44:09.programmes, particularly in the period in the late 1960s. Huge
:44:09. > :44:12.numbers of pits closed, people put out of work. What was the key
:44:12. > :44:18.difference in the way it was handled under Margaret Thatcher?
:44:18. > :44:23.was the speed at which the decline came in the 1980s and Nineties, the
:44:23. > :44:30.speed of decline was enormous. A for 115 years, the skies over
:44:30. > :44:35.concert were field with a haze of iron and oxide dust, a visible mark
:44:35. > :44:39.of the steel industry. Closure of the industry of the town with 35%
:44:39. > :44:43.and employment but clearer skies. Today there are shopping centres
:44:44. > :44:47.and houses instead of steel making. Mrs Thatcher's supporters say the
:44:47. > :44:51.area just had to move on. Margaret Thatcher was not responsible for
:44:51. > :44:55.the closure of the steelworks, that has already -- that was already
:44:55. > :44:59.decided by the British Steel Corporation, a nationalised
:44:59. > :45:05.industry. If you look around now, it has a boom town with an
:45:05. > :45:14.unemployment rate was 4%. In 1927, the apparent golden age, -- golden
:45:14. > :45:19.age, it was 28%. You see an economic legacy left by Margaret
:45:19. > :45:23.Thatcher which has transformed this country for the better. Many of the
:45:23. > :45:26.North's archive industries are the safest -- stuff of archive film. --
:45:26. > :45:30.traditional industries. Good Margaret Thatcher kill them off
:45:30. > :45:36.before their time or hasten the inevitable? -- did Margaret
:45:36. > :45:39.Thatcher kill them off before their time or hasten the inevitable?
:45:39. > :45:46.cannot pin is all on Margaret Thatcher, the decline map -- began
:45:46. > :45:51.much earlier than the 1970s. closed last tranche of my eyes, she
:45:51. > :45:54.took a beating heart of the community as well. -- of the 9th.
:45:54. > :46:00.She closed coal mines and call me at -- coal-mining communities. She
:46:00. > :46:06.left them to wither on the economic wind, and communities are still
:46:06. > :46:11.scarred to this day. They should have -- did she not just accept the
:46:11. > :46:14.inevitable? No, she ripped out the heart of communities. She was a
:46:14. > :46:24.conviction politician, she did not want to see the communities the
:46:24. > :46:25.
:46:25. > :46:28.right. -- communities thrive. She got rid of the trade unions, she
:46:29. > :46:33.wanted to see the demise of those communities. A it was all personal,
:46:33. > :46:38.basically, and if she had not done that, it would we not have had
:46:38. > :46:46.these pits producing valuable coal? No, you're 0.2 Ian was valid. Twice
:46:46. > :46:52.as many pits closed in the 1970s under Labour than closed under
:46:52. > :46:55.Margaret Thatcher. She did not close and, she said that -- she did
:46:55. > :47:01.not close them, she just said that public subsidies were removed.
:47:01. > :47:05.There is nothing to stop anyone opening a pit of now. The last ship
:47:05. > :47:10.yard closed under Labour, the last steelworks in Teesside closed under
:47:10. > :47:15.Labour, and then reopened under a coalition government. There is an
:47:15. > :47:21.awful lot of myths talked about this. I understand it is paid for
:47:21. > :47:25.fork thickly disease concerned but this -- painful for the communities
:47:25. > :47:30.concerned, but this process of industrialisation in a long-term
:47:30. > :47:33.process. You saw the whole of the Thatcher government from the
:47:33. > :47:43.opposition benches, what in your view did it do to the north-east
:47:43. > :47:50.was wrecked was it necessary -- and it's the north-east? Was it
:47:50. > :48:00.necessary? She was determined to have a fight to the finish, and was
:48:00. > :48:00.
:48:00. > :48:04.-- and Arthur Scargill did as well. We could have had a more gradual
:48:04. > :48:09.closure programme and better investment. It was not just call,
:48:09. > :48:12.it was shipbuilding as well. were so baffling -- suffering from
:48:12. > :48:16.other parts of the world which were produced in ships moored people put
:48:16. > :48:21.-- cheaply. The accusation from Ilie it -- Ian Lavery is that she
:48:21. > :48:27.was callous about this. There was something quite personal about her
:48:27. > :48:31.desire to see off Arthur Scargill, she did not want to see two or
:48:31. > :48:35.three trade unions hold the country to ransom. It be can -- it became a
:48:35. > :48:39.personal battle and he played into her hands and called a lot of
:48:39. > :48:42.suffering to a miner families by playing into her hands. He is now
:48:42. > :48:45.challenging his own trade union to keep privileges that they cannot
:48:45. > :48:51.afford to pay four. Even if you think Margaret Thatcher was brittle
:48:51. > :48:58.in the way she did this, did she not so the seeds of the things like
:48:58. > :49:03.-- so the seas of the things like the Nissan plant? By constituency
:49:03. > :49:07.has suffered greatly. Every time there is an issue raised about the
:49:07. > :49:11.economics of the north-east, people referred to Nissan. The fact of the
:49:11. > :49:17.matter is that Nissan could go like that if David Cameron and there
:49:17. > :49:22.Tories get their way in terms of money you... Everyone tells you
:49:22. > :49:26.about the devastation, but when you go to the town it has survive.
:49:26. > :49:32.does not flourish like he suggested, it is not flourishing now.
:49:32. > :49:34.Regardless of the cold by the communities, you mentioned the
:49:35. > :49:39.shipyards and manufacturing. A lot of people who work in these
:49:39. > :49:45.industries now have not had jobs for generations. Nor have their
:49:45. > :49:49.children. As a result of Margaret Thatcher's vindictive policy is.
:49:50. > :49:54.There is much still to do in the north-east, there are many areas of
:49:54. > :49:58.deprivation, but the question that Ian has to alter, they had 13 years
:49:58. > :50:01.of Labour government who made no attempt to open any of these
:50:01. > :50:06.industries because they did not want to continue subsidising them
:50:06. > :50:10.either. There is nothing stopping you open -- opening pits or
:50:10. > :50:13.shipyards or ship -- steelworks. It is very difficult to compete in a
:50:13. > :50:17.globalised environment so we have to look towards new industries.
:50:17. > :50:23.Nissan is a long way from your constituency but there are also
:50:23. > :50:27.hundreds of smaller companies that thrive... One of the problems is
:50:27. > :50:30.that Margaret Thatcher believed anything -- everything could run
:50:30. > :50:34.from London, she had no concept that the North could run anything
:50:34. > :50:39.themselves. She also misunderstood what was happening in Europe. She
:50:40. > :50:43.believed a the single market, she opposed German reunification. If
:50:43. > :50:53.she had not been -- if we would not have been in Europe, we would not
:50:53. > :51:00.have Nissan. 34% of people in the north-east voted for Margaret
:51:00. > :51:05.Thatcher in 1983, 32% in 1987, more than now. If she was so bad, why
:51:05. > :51:10.were people voting for her? We live in a democracy, people vote for who
:51:10. > :51:14.they want. If you come to my constituency and have a ballot or a
:51:14. > :51:19.poll on whether people supported Margaret Thatcher, it would not be
:51:19. > :51:22.34%. I would invite you to do that. That is a reality on the ground
:51:22. > :51:29.with the mining communities. There are different areas with different
:51:29. > :51:35.views. What about the point that this carried on under Labour? This
:51:35. > :51:40.carried on under Labour. What carried on under Labour?
:51:40. > :51:45.decline of manufacturing. It was set into being by Margaret Thatcher
:51:45. > :51:51.and his determination to get rid of the family silverware. She
:51:51. > :51:55.prioritised, closed and Chris abide communities. We could talk --
:51:55. > :51:58.crucified communities. We could talk for another 20 minutes, but we
:51:58. > :52:02.have got no time. In a fortnight is the county
:52:02. > :52:05.council elections come up for grabs our county councils in Cumbria,
:52:05. > :52:08.Durham and North Yorkshire. But in Northumberland one of the fiercest
:52:09. > :52:12.battles have been fought. Liberal Democrats have been running the
:52:12. > :52:16.council since 2008, but with a slump in their national fortunes,
:52:16. > :52:22.can they hold on to their last remaining stronghold in the north-
:52:22. > :52:26.east? Than romantic views of Northumberland, rolling hills,
:52:26. > :52:33.vibrant wildlife and bracing shores. The reality is rather more complex.
:52:33. > :52:36.I missed it -- mixture of industrial areas amid the vast
:52:36. > :52:40.rural expanse. It makes the Liberal Democrats job of running the
:52:40. > :52:46.council challenging, not least for may say they have had to trim a
:52:46. > :52:49.more than �100 million from the budget. We have had a council
:52:49. > :52:53.taking over the functions of the seven previous councils, most
:52:53. > :53:02.people would not have noticed the difference in the level of 76 --
:53:02. > :53:09.service they got. They will be able to see that we can attract business,
:53:09. > :53:14.and there is a housing company that has got a part here, and a paint
:53:14. > :53:16.factory near by. This business park is an example of what the Lib Dems
:53:16. > :53:20.say they have done for Northumberland. The Conservatives
:53:20. > :53:25.believe rural areas have been starved of funds, leaving them at
:53:25. > :53:28.run-down and neglected as embodied by the Hexham bus station. People
:53:28. > :53:34.across Northumberland are telling me how their accounts are going
:53:34. > :53:39.downhill. We are here in Hexham today, the pavements are not kept,
:53:39. > :53:45.the place is dirty, the bus station has had a better at four for five
:53:45. > :53:49.years. Our number one priority is to fix a broken roads we have got.
:53:49. > :53:52.-- the bus station has had no investment for four or five years.
:53:52. > :53:56.Northumberland was a Labour stronghold but they were beaten
:53:56. > :54:00.into third place in the elections in 2008. They are determined to
:54:00. > :54:05.take control in May, and they have put house building in the centre of
:54:05. > :54:10.their plans for the county's future. We have got a terrific housing
:54:10. > :54:13.crisis, 12,000 on the social housing waiting list. 4% of the
:54:13. > :54:18.population of Northumberland. We would like to tackle that as Labour
:54:18. > :54:23.over the next five years. It is a major policy decision of hours,
:54:23. > :54:28.moving towards getting down the housing list. That is what the
:54:28. > :54:33.politicians say, what about the voters? What issues matter to them?
:54:33. > :54:40.Everywhere else gets leisure centre, although they have already got one,
:54:40. > :54:43.there is nothing round here. We are in this area near Rothbury, and one
:54:43. > :54:49.of the major trunk route into the area has been closed and well
:54:49. > :54:53.before the next year as -- at least. One of the things that people are
:54:53. > :55:00.aware of is that the town centres like a blithe and Ashingdon seem to
:55:00. > :55:09.be run down and are getting worse. There is another big store going in
:55:09. > :55:12.Blyth, no one wants to do anything about it. It appears that way. Amid
:55:12. > :55:16.market issues, local issues are at the forefront of people's minds
:55:16. > :55:21.when they go to the polls on 2nd May.
:55:21. > :55:26.Let's raise one of those local issues, it is odd that the Lib Dems
:55:26. > :55:31.seemed stand accused of spending too much money in Labour
:55:31. > :55:36.strongholds. It depends where you go, in one area they saved the
:55:36. > :55:39.areas are being spent -- the money is being spent in the other areas.
:55:39. > :55:46.In Rothbury, there is a massive commitments to broadband because
:55:46. > :55:51.that is so important in rural communities. The county have had to
:55:51. > :55:54.save �100 million without closing a single library. Without closing any
:55:54. > :55:58.Sure Start centres. Compare that with Newcastle, run by Labour,
:55:58. > :56:04.which is closing facilities, slashing its arts and culture
:56:04. > :56:08.budget. We have done a challenging job very well. Labour amalgamated
:56:08. > :56:12.all these councils, we have had to pick up the pieces. You have had a
:56:12. > :56:16.new leisure centre in your constituency, most services have
:56:16. > :56:21.been kept going in tough times, should you congratulate the Lib
:56:21. > :56:30.Dems? When you mentioned the new leisure centre, there has not a
:56:30. > :56:35.brick been built yet. Hopefully that will come in the future. What
:56:35. > :56:40.East Northumberland means -- meet his investment in growth and jobs.
:56:40. > :56:48.We need more people employed and more people off the streets. What,
:56:48. > :56:57.the Lib Dems do? -- Watts, the Lib Dems cannot do that? They set their
:56:57. > :57:01.own agenda. We have a huge queues for jobs. I use saying that the
:57:01. > :57:07.Labour council would save economic problems? One of the main things,
:57:07. > :57:11.apart from housing, one of the main things we have got to focus on in
:57:11. > :57:17.Northumberland is jobs. We need jobs and growth and investment.
:57:17. > :57:21.Everyone will accept that. Come the local elections, you would not vote
:57:21. > :57:24.Conservative, would you? Of course you would if you want an efficient
:57:24. > :57:29.council. It is going to be a challenging financial environment
:57:29. > :57:33.in local government because of the debts that Labour ran out. So what
:57:33. > :57:36.we are going to do is concentrate the scarce resources on the
:57:36. > :57:42.priorities that people want, car parking charges, road repairs, and
:57:43. > :57:48.trying to bring economic development into the council.
:57:48. > :57:52.is �4 million for three parking, hat -- where you go to find that?
:57:52. > :57:55.You cannot change the basic economics of the country with one
:57:55. > :58:00.local authority but their priorities that you can do and the
:58:00. > :58:05.Conservative administration would. How big a blow to your prayers he
:58:05. > :58:12.would it be if you lose seats and you end up -- a party if you close
:58:12. > :58:17.seats has back I think we will gain seats in these elections. I think
:58:17. > :58:23.we will gain seats from the Conservatives. There are seeds that
:58:23. > :58:28.we can win from Labour. I think the record stands well and what we are
:58:28. > :58:32.doing nationally plays into local things. Cutting people's taxes,
:58:32. > :58:38.putting money into schools with the people premium. These are things
:58:38. > :58:43.that people want to see happening. That is the case for the Lib Dems.
:58:43. > :58:49.The Lib Dems are not contesting every single seat in the council.
:58:49. > :58:53.There has been a jumping from the ship of Lib Dem representatives.
:58:53. > :58:57.For example, Ashington town council, there are 19 seats, they had 14
:58:57. > :59:07.last time, they have only got to nominated people. Where have they
:59:07. > :59:08.
:59:08. > :59:13.gone? I am afraid we have run out of time. We will be hearing from
:59:13. > :59:16.UKIP and and the Green Party in the next few weeks.
:59:16. > :59:22.There was any report in the state of the north-east economy this week,
:59:22. > :59:31.and by-election campaigning has begun in South Shields. Following
:59:31. > :59:34.David Miliband's resignation. Benefit changes which will
:59:34. > :59:38.eventually affect millions of disabled people started this week.
:59:38. > :59:41.The north-east and Cumbria is piloting the switch from disability
:59:41. > :59:45.living allowance to a new personal independence payments.
:59:45. > :59:48.Meanwhile unions in Newcastle held a protest against government plans
:59:48. > :59:53.to cap benefit increases to 1% in the next three years.
:59:53. > :59:58.A review into the north-east's economy chaired by Labour peer Lord
:59:58. > :00:02.Adonis has caught -- called for a North East Bank and more investment
:00:02. > :00:05.in the north-east railways. Have we are going to sell the Regent
:00:05. > :00:10.International, we need good connections, which means a direct
:00:10. > :00:16.flight to the USA and better connections to other City is.
:00:16. > :00:26.The parties have started selecting candidates to fight the South
:00:26. > :00:29.
:00:29. > :00:35.The by-election is expecting on May septum -- the by-election is