:00:10. > :01:38.over the two thirds of the ethnic minority vote but now stands accused
:01:38. > :01:47.of institutional racism. Are they right? With me, the best and the
:01:47. > :01:51.brightest political panel in the business. Isabel Hardman, Janan
:01:52. > :01:55.be tweeting like demented Damians throughout the programme. First
:01:55. > :02:01.today, scrapping the bedroom tax. Universal childcare for primary
:02:01. > :02:03.school kids. More apprenticeships. Labour Conference only begins in
:02:03. > :02:08.earnest today, but the policy and spending commitments are coming
:02:08. > :02:12.according to the Labour leader's critics. He's been out and about
:02:12. > :02:22.this morning and told Andrew Marr that he knew it was going to be
:02:22. > :02:26.this morning and told Andrew Marr It is about a party that lost office
:02:26. > :02:31.three years ago. We are trying to be a one term opposition. That is
:02:31. > :02:38.tough. I believe it is a fight that we can win and I am up for that
:02:38. > :02:42.fight. The stakes are so high for young people who want a job, for
:02:42. > :02:48.people whose living standards are being squeezed. For people who think
:02:48. > :02:54.that this is not good enough for Britain. So what do key Labour Party
:02:54. > :02:58.activists - its councillors - think about the direction Mr Miliband
:02:58. > :03:00.activists - its councillors - think taking their party? Adam Fleming is
:03:00. > :03:07.in Brighton at the Party Conference with all the details of our latest
:03:08. > :03:17.exclusive Sunday Politics survey. conference set. Let us unwrap them.
:03:17. > :03:21.With the help of an opinion poll we surveyed 1350 Labour councillors
:03:21. > :03:26.across England and Wales. We wanted to find out what they think as
:03:26. > :03:30.Labour gathers for its conference. The Labour leader warmed up for
:03:30. > :03:32.Labour gathers for its conference. week by taking to his soap box in
:03:32. > :03:40.Brighton city centre. It is great week by taking to his soap box in
:03:40. > :03:46.councillors said they did not think Ed Miliband was doing a good job as
:03:46. > :03:50.leader. 30% said they thought the party would have a better chance if
:03:50. > :03:58.someone else was in charge at the next election. You will see more of
:03:58. > :04:08.Ed Miliband as we run-up to general election. He has been in the job for
:04:08. > :04:13.three years! Now it is crunch time. The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked
:04:13. > :04:19.by roughly one third of the party as well. Ed Balls is not a pop your
:04:19. > :04:31.man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.
:04:31. > :04:36.diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not seem to be that bothered about our
:04:36. > :04:43.survey. Over at a conference centre When it comes to relations with
:04:43. > :04:49.trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were
:04:49. > :04:53.absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little
:04:53. > :04:58.bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.
:04:58. > :05:03.The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle
:05:03. > :05:10.from London to raise money for councillors what they would do if
:05:10. > :05:15.the next election results in a hung parliament, just over half said
:05:16. > :05:16.the next election results in a hung would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:16. > :05:21.their bikes. We would never say would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:21. > :05:24.to going into coalition. It gives us the chance to be in government and
:05:24. > :05:29.prepare some of the damage of the last three years. So are you going
:05:29. > :05:35.to start being nice about the Lib Dems? I always treat them with
:05:35. > :05:38.courtesy. And the parties admitted that perhaps they had opened the
:05:38. > :05:44.door to too many immigrants. It that perhaps they had opened the
:05:44. > :05:51.our survey Labour councillors of warming the felt that immigration
:05:51. > :06:00.We're now joined by the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel
:06:00. > :06:05.Reeves. Good morning. Let us start with Ed Miliband. Is it true that
:06:05. > :06:12.the team insisted that he be called the leader? I just call him Ed and I
:06:12. > :06:22.think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet do. Do you welcome working for a
:06:22. > :06:26.leader that says he is winning back socialism? We are a democratic
:06:26. > :06:35.important thing is that we have socialism? We are a democratic
:06:35. > :06:40.policies that will improve people 's lives and tackle the cost of living
:06:40. > :06:46.crisis facing so many families. Policies like expanding childcare,
:06:46. > :06:51.offering more apprenticeships, all policies that I think the country
:06:51. > :06:58.are calling out for after three years of a flat-lining economy and
:06:58. > :07:05.seeing prices rise faster than wages for 38 out of the 39 months but
:07:05. > :07:10.Minister. I think that is the most important thing. So it is OK now to
:07:10. > :07:16.risk their to the Labour Party again as the Socialist party? The clue is
:07:16. > :07:20.in the name, we stand up for working people. You are socialist party
:07:20. > :07:25.according to the leader. We have always been the Labour Party, that
:07:25. > :07:31.is our name and we stand up for working people, not the privileged
:07:31. > :07:38.few like this government with their tax cuts for millionaires. Those are
:07:38. > :07:46.privileged few. The Labour Party is about helping everyone in Britain,
:07:46. > :07:50.all families. Interesting that your run don't use the word socialist. In
:07:50. > :07:56.our survey one third of Labour councillors said Ed Miliband was not
:07:56. > :08:02.doing a good job as leader. If he councillors, who can he convince?
:08:02. > :08:07.Well you could say that two thirds of councillors think that he is
:08:08. > :08:12.Well you could say that two thirds right leader. But these are Labour
:08:12. > :08:18.councillors. The overall majority of Labour councillors think that he is
:08:18. > :08:24.doing a good job. What matters is the results on election day. Two
:08:24. > :08:30.thirds of councillors think that he is doing a good job. That us see
:08:30. > :08:32.what they say at the end of this week. Because I think the policies
:08:32. > :08:37.he is announcing will go down well week. Because I think the policies
:08:37. > :08:40.with Labour Party people and will also resonate with the British
:08:40. > :08:47.public. Policies like expanding apprenticeships, giving a break
:08:47. > :08:49.public. Policies like expanding struggling. I think people will
:08:49. > :08:53.public. Policies like expanding what kind of a leader that he is.
:08:53. > :09:02.Well he has a mountain to climb among all voters. Let me ask the
:09:02. > :09:07.question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just
:09:07. > :09:10.question. Just 12% see him as a see him as a natural leader. Why? If
:09:10. > :09:14.question. Just 12% see him as a you look at the overall opinion
:09:14. > :09:19.polls, we are consistently ahead in those polls. It is hard being leader
:09:19. > :09:26.demonstrate how you would be Prime Minister. By nature you are in
:09:26. > :09:31.opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.
:09:31. > :09:37.That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you
:09:37. > :09:41.That is strong leadership, standing at his reforms to our relationship
:09:41. > :09:48.with the trade unions, strengthening ties with individual members. I
:09:48. > :09:51.think that he is a strong leader making the right decisions. If that
:09:51. > :09:57.is the case, why has the Labour making the right decisions. If that
:09:57. > :10:04.gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went
:10:04. > :10:08.wrong? Well we are six or eight are six or eight points ahead in the
:10:08. > :10:14.consistently ahead. It looks as are six or eight points ahead in the
:10:14. > :10:17.we would get an overall majority if there was an election tomorrow.
:10:17. > :10:18.we would get an overall majority if we have more work to do to convince
:10:18. > :10:25.more people to vote for Labour. we have more work to do to convince
:10:25. > :10:29.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:29. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:52.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:52. > :10:55.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:55. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:05.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:12.can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they
:11:12. > :11:17.their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under
:11:18. > :11:22.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:22. > :11:27.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:28. > :11:37.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:37. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:46.night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that
:11:46. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:02.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:02. > :12:07.where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If
:12:07. > :12:09.where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that
:12:09. > :12:11.where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free
:12:11. > :12:19.schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital
:12:19. > :12:26.spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:29.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools
:12:29. > :12:31.when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:32. > :12:36.course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:36. > :12:41.fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important
:12:41. > :12:48.thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls
:12:48. > :12:55.and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was
:12:55. > :12:59.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was
:12:59. > :13:08.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that
:13:08. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:09. > :13:14.asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:14. > :13:19.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:19. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:37.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:37. > :13:42.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:42. > :13:50.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:50. > :13:55.should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made
:13:55. > :14:00.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a
:14:00. > :14:09.hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:10. > :14:17.That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings
:14:17. > :14:21.of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they
:14:21. > :14:23.want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:23. > :14:38.that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:38. > :14:41.serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:41. > :14:44.a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:44. > :14:48.we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,
:14:49. > :14:55.we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this
:14:55. > :15:01.week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think
:15:01. > :15:05.they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery
:15:05. > :15:10.has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike
:15:10. > :15:24.previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to
:15:24. > :15:26.make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The
:15:26. > :15:28.make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they
:15:28. > :15:32.make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue
:15:32. > :15:36.let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls
:15:36. > :15:42.show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards
:15:42. > :15:44.show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:44. > :15:48.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:48. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:56.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:56. > :16:02.fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the
:16:02. > :16:09.economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's
:16:09. > :16:12.economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just
:16:12. > :16:18.incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy
:16:18. > :16:24.for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition
:16:24. > :16:26.something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:26. > :16:31.you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:31. > :16:41.coming through already before the conference has started. You have
:16:41. > :16:47.childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?
:16:47. > :16:49.childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare
:16:49. > :16:56.for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an
:16:56. > :17:00.art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to
:17:00. > :17:05.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:05. > :17:09.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:22.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:22. > :17:28.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:28. > :17:32.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:32. > :17:37.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:37. > :17:41.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:41. > :17:44.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:44. > :17:47.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :17:55.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:55. > :17:59.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the
:17:59. > :18:02.including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:06.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:06. > :18:10.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:13.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:13. > :18:14.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:14. > :18:17.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:17. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:32.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:32. > :18:38.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:38. > :18:41.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:49.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have
:18:49. > :18:51.the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly
:18:51. > :18:55.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:55. > :18:57.enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why
:18:58. > :19:01.policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:17.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:17. > :19:19.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:19. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:20. > :19:22.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:22. > :19:24.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:24. > :19:28.any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:28. > :19:32.party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:32. > :19:39.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:39. > :19:42.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:42. > :19:46.have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we
:19:46. > :19:49.will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can
:19:49. > :19:55.get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel
:19:55. > :20:00.get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:00. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:12.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:12. > :20:15.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for
:20:15. > :20:17.all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is
:20:17. > :20:21.blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are
:20:21. > :20:26.interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that
:20:26. > :20:30.sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One
:20:30. > :20:46.thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is
:20:46. > :20:51.this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories
:20:51. > :20:57.this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential
:20:57. > :21:03.Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party
:21:04. > :21:07.Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have
:21:07. > :21:09.him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.
:21:09. > :21:17.past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:17. > :21:23.Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:23. > :21:25.annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:25. > :21:31.about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:31. > :21:36.bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:36. > :21:40.Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their
:21:40. > :21:44.politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:44. > :21:47.restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:47. > :21:49.the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:49. > :21:58.increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime
:21:58. > :22:01.Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories
:22:01. > :22:05.from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,
:22:05. > :22:13.no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections
:22:13. > :22:16.in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade
:22:16. > :22:18.being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders
:22:18. > :22:22.shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders
:22:22. > :22:29.election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No
:22:29. > :22:32.matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday
:22:32. > :22:48.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:48. > :22:52.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:52. > :22:56.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:56. > :22:59.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:22:59. > :23:02.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:02. > :23:05.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:05. > :23:10.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:11.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:11. > :23:14.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:14. > :23:24.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:24. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:35.get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:35. > :23:37.done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:37. > :23:39.70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:39. > :23:42.70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party
:23:42. > :23:49.running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They
:23:49. > :23:53.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you
:23:53. > :23:55.Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were
:23:55. > :24:01.Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:01. > :24:07.the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:07. > :24:11.than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more
:24:11. > :24:14.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:14. > :24:18.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:18. > :24:23.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:23. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:30. > :24:34.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:34. > :24:39.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:39. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:56.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:56. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:04.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:04. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:44.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:44. > :25:49.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:49. > :25:52.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been
:25:52. > :26:01.stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that
:26:01. > :26:08.up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib
:26:09. > :26:15.Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative
:26:15. > :26:21.led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your
:26:21. > :26:25.party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your
:26:25. > :26:29.25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have
:26:29. > :26:33.happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of
:26:33. > :26:35.happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:36.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:36. > :26:41.Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative
:26:41. > :26:48.right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April
:26:48. > :26:52.will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what
:26:52. > :27:06.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is
:27:06. > :27:10.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,
:27:10. > :27:14.stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would
:27:14. > :27:17.love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it
:27:17. > :27:24.love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford
:27:24. > :27:30.unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is
:27:30. > :27:33.having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition
:27:33. > :27:37.because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the
:27:37. > :27:41.because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you
:27:41. > :27:45.absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of
:27:45. > :27:54.tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all
:27:54. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are
:27:59. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority
:27:59. > :28:05.Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority
:28:05. > :28:07.unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when
:28:07. > :28:11.unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when
:28:11. > :28:16.are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more
:28:16. > :28:20.free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global
:28:20. > :28:26.trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global
:28:26. > :28:30.so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around
:28:30. > :28:32.so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is
:28:32. > :28:34.crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:34. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:36. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the
:28:36. > :28:43.world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the
:28:43. > :28:47.versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be
:28:47. > :28:50.versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It
:28:50. > :28:52.sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:52. > :28:59.agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:59. > :29:02.amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well
:29:02. > :29:05.amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least
:29:05. > :29:09.well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to
:29:09. > :29:14.trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open
:29:14. > :29:15.trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another
:29:15. > :29:19.trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest
:29:19. > :29:24.there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what
:29:24. > :29:31.would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away
:29:31. > :29:35.from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay
:29:35. > :29:40.out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want
:29:40. > :29:44.a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and
:29:44. > :29:49.you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform
:29:49. > :29:52.which will be for hard-working people in this country who want
:29:52. > :29:55.which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We
:29:55. > :29:59.would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,
:29:59. > :30:02.where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a
:30:02. > :30:08.situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think
:30:08. > :30:11.we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out
:30:11. > :30:14.we plan to ensure that this is an do a day's work and get the money at
:30:14. > :30:17.the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.
:30:17. > :30:19.you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:19. > :30:27.must be your first Red Line? We membership of the EU in 2017, that
:30:27. > :30:35.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:38.poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,
:30:38. > :30:46.a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the
:30:46. > :30:49.EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and
:30:49. > :30:55.comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:55. > :31:00.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:00. > :31:04.want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future
:31:04. > :31:13.coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to
:31:13. > :31:16.coalition government question mark manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:16. > :31:21.no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project
:31:22. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the
:31:26. > :31:31.negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how
:31:31. > :31:41.much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:47.Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you
:31:47. > :31:54.feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most
:31:54. > :32:01.vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.
:32:01. > :32:05.And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so
:32:05. > :32:07.much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether
:32:07. > :32:22.with Mr King? I do not think it getting to the end of your tether
:32:22. > :32:24.terribly helpful for any Cabinet minister to make comments like that.
:32:24. > :32:35.What I would say is that Nick Clegg minister to make comments like that.
:32:35. > :32:44.is the leader of the Lib Dems and himself. Look at these figures on
:32:45. > :32:50.party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr
:32:50. > :32:53.Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world
:32:53. > :32:58.has changed. People do not rush it to be more. But I think the world
:32:58. > :33:07.and join political parties as they used to. Instead they support you in
:33:07. > :33:11.different ways. If I released the number of people who give to the
:33:12. > :33:18.party in different ways, through donations for example, through
:33:18. > :33:23.friend memberships. If you include that that figure goes back up. But
:33:23. > :33:35.a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But
:33:35. > :33:43.not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to
:33:43. > :33:47.not want to to misinterpret what I members. I think we will have done
:33:47. > :33:57.election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had
:33:57. > :34:04.constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the
:34:05. > :34:14.doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of
:34:14. > :00:32.only if the ball comes to me. Bob Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks
:00:32. > :00:33.only if the ball comes to me. Bob much. Leafing through the papers the
:00:33. > :00:38.only if the ball comes to me. Bob last few days has taken me back
:00:38. > :00:39.only if the ball comes to me. Bob my youth. The halcyon days of the
:00:39. > :00:44.2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who
:00:44. > :00:46.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:46. > :00:48.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his
:00:48. > :00:57.enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the
:00:57. > :00:58.enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:58. > :01:02.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:02. > :01:06.Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he
:01:06. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:14.called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:14. > :01:20.called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:20. > :01:28.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:28. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:38.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at
:01:38. > :01:41.in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies
:01:41. > :01:51.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:58.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:58. > :02:03.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:03. > :02:07.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:07. > :02:15.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:15. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:26.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:26. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:34.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:34. > :02:40.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:40. > :02:47.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:47. > :02:51.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:51. > :02:58.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:58. > :03:04.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:04. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:10.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:10. > :03:17.usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think
:03:17. > :03:25.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:25. > :03:30.undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is
:03:30. > :03:39.inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:42.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:42. > :03:50.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:03.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:03. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:28. > :04:41.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:41. > :04:52.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:52. > :05:02.associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,
:05:02. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness
:05:03. > :05:08.and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness
:05:08. > :05:14.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:14. > :05:16.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:16. > :05:22.coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:22. > :05:26.coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others
:05:26. > :05:31.were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I
:05:31. > :05:39.certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling
:05:39. > :05:50.me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never
:05:50. > :05:57.me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to
:05:57. > :06:01.me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age
:06:01. > :06:04.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:04. > :06:11.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:11. > :06:14.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:14. > :06:18.giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and
:06:18. > :06:28.politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.
:06:28. > :06:32.What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We
:06:32. > :06:38.have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get
:06:38. > :06:41.have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is
:06:41. > :06:44.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:44. > :06:50.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:06:50. > :07:03.I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:03. > :07:13.about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it
:07:13. > :07:18.with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp
:07:18. > :07:28.about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect
:07:28. > :07:28.about some of these activities at see that there is full on both
:07:28. > :07:34.sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both
:07:34. > :07:37.case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both
:07:37. > :07:42.over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown
:07:42. > :07:48.and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the
:07:48. > :07:52.people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way
:07:52. > :07:56.people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.
:07:56. > :08:01.The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.
:08:01. > :08:03.the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period
:08:03. > :08:09.when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period
:08:09. > :08:12.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:12. > :08:20.colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:28.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your
:08:28. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:29. > :08:40.promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:40. > :08:44.before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in
:08:44. > :08:48.opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:48. > :08:57.This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:57. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:16.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:16. > :09:23.particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.
:09:23. > :09:28.And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,
:09:28. > :09:34.they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.
:09:34. > :09:36.they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:43.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by
:09:43. > :09:50.wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too
:09:50. > :09:55.much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that
:09:55. > :10:04.with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole
:10:04. > :10:11.bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even
:10:11. > :10:13.campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won
:10:13. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:19.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:19. > :10:28.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:28. > :10:34.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:34. > :10:41.reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I
:10:41. > :10:47.reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:57.around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.
:10:57. > :11:04.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:04. > :11:16.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:16. > :11:19.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:19. > :11:26.problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:26. > :11:28.100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:28. > :11:41.million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young
:11:41. > :11:45.million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in
:11:45. > :11:48.the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.
:11:48. > :11:56.did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:06.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:21.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:21. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:33.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:33. > :12:41.emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and
:12:41. > :12:52.advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash
:12:52. > :12:59.with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too
:12:59. > :13:05.means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had
:13:05. > :13:17.the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:17. > :13:22.much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be
:13:23. > :13:26.with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech
:13:26. > :13:27.from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember