:00:40. > :00:53.Sunday Politics. It began as Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:54. > :00:57.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:58. > :01:02.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:03. > :01:07.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:08. > :01:11.capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:12. > :01:16.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:17. > :01:18.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:19. > :01:21.should be covered up. headlines: 700 jobs and a ?1 billion
:01:22. > :01:27.investment. Work is In the north east and Cumbria. Fears
:01:28. > :01:30.investment. In In the north east and Cumbria. Fears
:01:31. > :01:32.the region could lose millions of pounds of health funding. And does
:01:33. > :01:37.Hitachi's new authority is investigating --
:01:38. > :01:43.investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on
:01:44. > :01:50.its staff. With me as always, the best and the
:01:51. > :01:54.brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt
:01:55. > :01:57.who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they
:01:58. > :02:04.got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to
:02:05. > :02:08.a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home
:02:09. > :02:12.Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the
:02:13. > :02:16.treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met
:02:17. > :02:21.him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was
:02:22. > :02:25.prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.
:02:26. > :02:31.But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.
:02:32. > :02:35.Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.
:02:36. > :02:39.The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there
:02:40. > :02:46.enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the
:02:47. > :02:50.police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad
:02:51. > :02:54.and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for
:02:55. > :02:59.contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to
:03:00. > :03:03.prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what
:03:04. > :03:08.is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try
:03:09. > :03:16.to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from
:03:17. > :03:20.day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I
:03:21. > :03:27.knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.
:03:28. > :03:30.And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as
:03:31. > :03:36.to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not
:03:37. > :03:40.will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the
:03:41. > :03:45.Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can
:03:46. > :03:51.say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under
:03:52. > :03:56.statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This
:03:57. > :04:00.is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy
:04:01. > :04:07.of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will
:04:08. > :04:12.keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung
:04:13. > :04:17.the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like
:04:18. > :04:21.his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the
:04:22. > :04:27.report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in
:04:28. > :04:31.Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as
:04:32. > :04:37.deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len
:04:38. > :04:43.McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out
:04:44. > :04:48.the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a
:04:49. > :04:52.petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the
:04:53. > :04:56.Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come
:04:57. > :05:00.under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance
:05:01. > :05:07.demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of
:05:08. > :05:13.a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy
:05:14. > :05:18.the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems
:05:19. > :05:24.to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in
:05:25. > :05:28.deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him
:05:29. > :05:33.as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of
:05:34. > :05:40.labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend
:05:41. > :05:46.of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any
:05:47. > :05:56.wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len
:05:57. > :06:02.McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is
:06:03. > :06:09.in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion
:06:10. > :06:16.trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved
:06:17. > :06:21.in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing
:06:22. > :06:26.new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in
:06:27. > :06:30.the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had
:06:31. > :06:35.done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in
:06:36. > :06:40.Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says
:06:41. > :06:46.you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to
:06:47. > :06:50.fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you
:06:51. > :06:55.thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the
:06:56. > :07:03.Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then
:07:04. > :07:07.instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and
:07:08. > :07:11.during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened
:07:12. > :07:16.and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I
:07:17. > :07:22.was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent
:07:23. > :07:26.enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing
:07:27. > :07:30.because the people who originally complained changed their evidence
:07:31. > :07:36.and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to
:07:37. > :07:42.rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.
:07:43. > :07:50.We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that
:07:51. > :07:57.all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting
:07:58. > :08:01.the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are
:08:02. > :08:09.allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were
:08:10. > :08:13.put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they
:08:14. > :08:19.doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations
:08:20. > :08:24.that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea
:08:25. > :08:29.that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families
:08:30. > :08:38.has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They
:08:39. > :08:42.clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved
:08:43. > :08:49.in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.
:08:50. > :08:53.Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they
:08:54. > :09:01.are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position
:09:02. > :09:09.is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw
:09:10. > :09:16.their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his
:09:17. > :09:20.family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full
:09:21. > :09:28.weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to
:09:29. > :09:34.Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an
:09:35. > :09:39.independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:09:40. > :09:46.office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,
:09:47. > :09:49.the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks
:09:50. > :09:58.for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since
:09:59. > :10:07.when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to
:10:08. > :10:14.the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and
:10:15. > :10:18.it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making
:10:19. > :10:25.decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift
:10:26. > :10:34.back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent
:10:35. > :10:38.protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was
:10:39. > :10:44.not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling
:10:45. > :10:52.everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had
:10:53. > :11:00.loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to
:11:01. > :11:07.join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the
:11:08. > :11:12.Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going
:11:13. > :11:17.to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were
:11:18. > :11:24.loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the
:11:25. > :11:30.Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have
:11:31. > :11:35.used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at
:11:36. > :11:41.people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to
:11:42. > :11:48.look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an
:11:49. > :11:51.absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the
:11:52. > :11:59.21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the
:12:00. > :12:03.wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever
:12:04. > :12:12.it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk
:12:13. > :12:21.constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your
:12:22. > :12:26.opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con
:12:27. > :12:34.trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your
:12:35. > :12:38.legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of
:12:39. > :12:44.trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband
:12:45. > :12:47.wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way
:12:48. > :12:54.ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company
:12:55. > :12:59.started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,
:13:00. > :13:05.that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called
:13:06. > :13:10.INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring
:13:11. > :13:17.Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to
:13:18. > :13:25.a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who
:13:26. > :13:30.says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it
:13:31. > :13:36.in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make
:13:37. > :13:39.that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You
:13:40. > :13:46.instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what
:13:47. > :13:52.Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the
:13:53. > :13:58.petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due
:13:59. > :14:05.introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was
:14:06. > :14:08.being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost
:14:09. > :14:15.Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was
:14:16. > :14:19.saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and
:14:20. > :14:27.humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len
:14:28. > :14:34.McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with
:14:35. > :14:38.INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop
:14:39. > :14:42.stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns
:14:43. > :14:50.and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has
:14:51. > :14:55.condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have
:14:56. > :14:59.you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour
:15:00. > :15:05.Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested
:15:06. > :15:10.in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the
:15:11. > :15:17.requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last
:15:18. > :15:21.Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will
:15:22. > :15:26.continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they
:15:27. > :15:32.are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.
:15:33. > :15:38.You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.
:15:39. > :15:44.We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company
:15:45. > :15:49.to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking
:15:50. > :15:54.unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive
:15:55. > :16:01.industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all
:16:02. > :16:04.Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to
:16:05. > :16:10.implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is
:16:11. > :16:14.what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our
:16:15. > :16:20.members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not
:16:21. > :16:24.be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as
:16:25. > :16:38.disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My
:16:39. > :16:42.membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are
:16:43. > :16:46.executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me
:16:47. > :16:51.standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I
:16:52. > :17:05.will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us
:17:06. > :17:08.by the media. "A country ready to welcome your
:17:09. > :17:10.investment which values your friendship and will never exclude
:17:11. > :17:13.anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The
:17:14. > :17:16.words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which
:17:17. > :17:20.was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm
:17:21. > :17:22.words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a
:17:23. > :17:25.spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the
:17:26. > :17:28.wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of
:17:29. > :17:31.some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the
:17:32. > :17:41.Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.
:17:42. > :17:45.First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east
:17:46. > :17:50.London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,
:17:51. > :17:55.one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it
:17:56. > :18:00.frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the
:18:01. > :18:03.British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,
:18:04. > :18:08.traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate
:18:09. > :18:12.to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one
:18:13. > :18:21.question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to
:18:22. > :18:25.address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront
:18:26. > :18:29.radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of
:18:30. > :18:39.sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not
:18:40. > :18:45.nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young
:18:46. > :18:48.Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using
:18:49. > :18:56.Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this
:18:57. > :19:04.work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has
:19:05. > :19:13.been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public
:19:14. > :19:17.to please people but in private something very different is being
:19:18. > :19:23.said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,
:19:24. > :19:31.it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for
:19:32. > :19:36.radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's
:19:37. > :19:41.faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if
:19:42. > :19:49.rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some
:19:50. > :19:56.sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,
:19:57. > :20:00.and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and
:20:01. > :20:06.it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially
:20:07. > :20:11.when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to
:20:12. > :20:14.talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There
:20:15. > :20:21.is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the
:20:22. > :20:27.one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist
:20:28. > :20:38.perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of
:20:39. > :20:53.minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public
:20:54. > :21:05.places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy
:21:06. > :21:08.of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and
:21:09. > :21:11.that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the
:21:12. > :21:17.preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council
:21:18. > :21:21.of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating
:21:22. > :21:27.sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved
:21:28. > :21:34.predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for
:21:35. > :21:40.some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We
:21:41. > :21:47.need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the
:21:48. > :21:51.normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and
:21:52. > :21:58.chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that
:21:59. > :22:04.actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible
:22:05. > :22:10.with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to
:22:11. > :22:14.women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures
:22:15. > :22:19.of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain
:22:20. > :22:28.itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they
:22:29. > :22:36.are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to
:22:37. > :22:36.are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are
:22:37. > :22:40.experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages
:22:41. > :22:44.what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not
:22:45. > :22:49.being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance
:22:50. > :22:52.rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been
:22:53. > :22:56.found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in
:22:57. > :23:03.this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what
:23:04. > :23:09.are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem
:23:10. > :23:13.of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be
:23:14. > :23:18.exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many
:23:19. > :23:23.Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a
:23:24. > :23:30.big cultural gap will exist between the two.
:23:31. > :23:33.And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq
:23:34. > :23:42.Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the
:23:43. > :23:49.veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible
:23:50. > :23:57.to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory
:23:58. > :23:59.requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting
:24:00. > :24:13.themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst
:24:14. > :24:16.wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life
:24:17. > :24:20.successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red
:24:21. > :24:27.herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim
:24:28. > :24:37.girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point
:24:38. > :24:41.of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the
:24:42. > :24:50.public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones
:24:51. > :24:57.who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a
:24:58. > :25:04.practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour
:25:05. > :25:09.it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women
:25:10. > :25:14.should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the
:25:15. > :25:20.veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is
:25:21. > :25:26.important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free
:25:27. > :25:30.choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their
:25:31. > :25:35.free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it
:25:36. > :25:41.helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away
:25:42. > :25:46.from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad
:25:47. > :25:50.thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim
:25:51. > :25:56.preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim
:25:57. > :26:02.women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim
:26:03. > :26:09.women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being
:26:10. > :26:15.forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and
:26:16. > :26:20.what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,
:26:21. > :26:25.very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is
:26:26. > :26:31.wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other
:26:32. > :26:35.Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider
:26:36. > :26:45.that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any
:26:46. > :26:49.Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an
:26:50. > :26:55.organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not
:26:56. > :27:01.coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by
:27:02. > :27:05.individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that
:27:06. > :27:10.would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would
:27:11. > :27:22.not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires
:27:23. > :27:30.children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you
:27:31. > :27:39.agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have
:27:40. > :27:48.just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a
:27:49. > :27:54.black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on
:27:55. > :28:05.anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.
:28:06. > :28:11.I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think
:28:12. > :28:16.it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would
:28:17. > :28:28.wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some
:28:29. > :28:35.muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the
:28:36. > :28:39.start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I
:28:40. > :28:48.would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic
:28:49. > :28:53.girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the
:28:54. > :29:01.top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.
:29:02. > :29:05.But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those
:29:06. > :29:13.girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I
:29:14. > :29:19.am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.
:29:20. > :29:31.There is a very conservative movement from the continent on
:29:32. > :29:36.Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their
:29:37. > :29:43.website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged
:29:44. > :29:47.to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should
:29:48. > :29:52.not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you
:29:53. > :29:57.think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They
:29:58. > :30:07.are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree
:30:08. > :30:15.with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is
:30:16. > :30:19.what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is
:30:20. > :30:42.quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you
:30:43. > :30:46.agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back
:30:47. > :30:51.to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.
:30:52. > :30:59.This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.
:31:00. > :31:06.Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday
:31:07. > :31:18.mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your
:31:19. > :31:28.counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they
:31:29. > :31:33.have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is
:31:34. > :31:39.advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the
:31:40. > :31:45.Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The
:31:46. > :31:52.Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots
:31:53. > :32:00.of common issues to create a community which positively
:32:01. > :32:07.integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate
:32:08. > :32:10.for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications
:32:11. > :32:18.available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your
:32:19. > :32:28.organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall
:32:29. > :32:38.under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British
:32:39. > :32:44.mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of
:32:45. > :32:49.prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to
:32:50. > :32:56.prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very
:32:57. > :33:04.beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?
:33:05. > :33:14.Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council
:33:15. > :33:19.have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious
:33:20. > :33:26.stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at
:33:27. > :33:43.this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.
:33:44. > :33:55.That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we
:33:56. > :34:00.live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they
:34:01. > :34:06.have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You
:34:07. > :34:13.would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like
:34:14. > :34:20.that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation
:34:21. > :34:24.to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s
:34:25. > :34:31.rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law
:34:32. > :34:40.of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger
:34:41. > :34:47.issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul
:34:48. > :34:51.declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it
:34:52. > :35:02.declaration was signed. Do you still or supported it. One of your leading
:35:03. > :35:08.lights signed it. In the media mainstream he defended his position.
:35:09. > :35:16.You have this associated yourself from it? What is wrong with that? I
:35:17. > :35:23.am not sure about the declaration because we disassociated ourselves.
:35:24. > :35:31.Before reading it? We did not sign it. You have not read it? I do not
:35:32. > :35:36.know all the aspects of the declaration, but at the time in the
:35:37. > :35:46.national newspapers and media there national newspapers and media there
:35:47. > :35:47.was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not
:35:48. > :35:54.was a discussion and a debate and it what was meant by the declaration.
:35:55. > :36:02.When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From
:36:03. > :36:08.day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are
:36:09. > :36:14.personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of
:36:15. > :36:25.extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the
:36:26. > :36:29.mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described
:36:30. > :36:32.by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another
:36:33. > :36:39.speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad
:36:40. > :36:43.is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop
:36:44. > :36:51.extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with?
:36:52. > :36:58.We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or
:36:59. > :37:02.supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is
:37:03. > :37:07.a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is
:37:08. > :37:13.a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told
:37:14. > :37:18.their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to
:37:19. > :37:28.speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a
:37:29. > :37:35.Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did
:37:36. > :37:41.not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and
:37:42. > :37:51.have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I
:37:52. > :37:56.completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women,
:37:57. > :38:02.the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the
:38:03. > :38:07.toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted
:38:08. > :38:13.among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a
:38:14. > :38:20.non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which
:38:21. > :38:28.embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim
:38:29. > :38:33.community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which
:38:34. > :38:37.are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our
:38:38. > :38:44.view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The
:38:45. > :38:49.work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all
:38:50. > :38:53.associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are
:38:54. > :38:55.associated with you, but we will watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:38:56. > :39:19.up: I will be talking to If Hello and welcome to your local
:39:20. > :39:23.part of Sunday politics. Just as satisfying but a bit closer to home.
:39:24. > :39:27.Coming up this week: Fears that some of the most deprived areas of the
:39:28. > :39:31.north east and Cumbria could lose out on millions of pounds of health
:39:32. > :39:35.spending under a new NHS funding model. North`east Liberal Democrat
:39:36. > :39:38.Euro MP Fiona Hall and the Labour MP for Washington and Sunderland,
:39:39. > :39:46.Sharon Hodgson, are here to discuss that and the rest of the week's
:39:47. > :39:52.news. And let's get going with good news. Construction work has begun on
:39:53. > :39:56.Hitachi's new rail plant in County Durham. It will eventually employ a
:39:57. > :39:59.workforce of 730. The Transport Secretary, Patrick McLoughlin, was
:40:00. > :40:01.in Newton Aycliffe on Friday to give the project Government's official
:40:02. > :40:05.stamp of approval, along with Business Secretary Vince Cable who
:40:06. > :40:07.said it was a major step forward for both north`east manufacturing and
:40:08. > :40:11.the railways. This is the proper this really big
:40:12. > :40:16.project. Hitachi are going to commit a to it. We are talking about 700
:40:17. > :40:21.jobs to it, a lot of jobs in the construction stage and in the supply
:40:22. > :40:25.stage. We are getting a real revelation in Britain. Heavy
:40:26. > :40:42.investment is going into Rail. But the trains are
:40:43. > :40:54.manufactured in Japan and shipped over here? It was made very clear by
:40:55. > :40:59.the company. But there is a commitment to building up their
:41:00. > :41:07.supply chain here. These trains will be exported on over Europe.
:41:08. > :41:14.Vince Cable talking to our business correspondent Ian Reeve.
:41:15. > :41:24.In the North East, we have had some really positive signs lately, which
:41:25. > :41:29.is great. But we must not forget that when pots of money is dished
:41:30. > :41:34.out, it is not dished out fairly. ?225 million of that money was given
:41:35. > :41:41.to the south`east London, and only 34 million to the East. But this is
:41:42. > :41:51.good news for manufacturing? Yes, it is, but you have to see it as a
:41:52. > :41:58.whole, not in isolation. Should wee bit disappointed it is just an
:41:59. > :42:01.assembly plant? No, there is a commitment to build them here. We
:42:02. > :42:08.have already got local companies signed up in the supply chain. It is
:42:09. > :42:16.also worth remembering that this is Hitachi rail Europe and they have
:42:17. > :42:25.said the interested in the UK market and in continental orders. And that
:42:26. > :42:39.is only there because we are part of Europe. HS2 could secure vital jobs
:42:40. > :42:46.in Durham? But you are dithering on it? Not at all. There was a vote on
:42:47. > :42:52.Thursday on that. But Labour MPs have been attacking it. Most
:42:53. > :42:59.north`east MPs I know that are in support. The report we had recently
:43:00. > :43:09.said that it will be up on `` it will be a positive benefit in the
:43:10. > :43:16.north`east. But one MP was criticising the report for just
:43:17. > :43:21.that? That was just one MP. There is not a bottomless pit of money, we
:43:22. > :43:26.have to be fiscally responsible. But Labour are in support of High Speed
:43:27. > :43:31.two. Having good news on the way, Hitachi when it opens, but there was
:43:32. > :43:36.bad news this week in the manufacturing sector with job losses
:43:37. > :43:41.in the steel industry. We are not out in the woods in terms of
:43:42. > :43:47.manufacturing yet? No, we are not. We started another place. I have
:43:48. > :43:53.spent the week going round a meeting a lot of companies in the region and
:43:54. > :43:56.I was quite struck by how several of them in different sectors said
:43:57. > :44:01.cautiously that it is getting better, this last quarter or two, we
:44:02. > :44:07.have been on the right side of the line. That is something to be very
:44:08. > :44:11.pleased about. Can we be confident that manufacturing is in good hands
:44:12. > :44:16.in the north`east? The workers in the North East are being renowned
:44:17. > :44:21.for being some of the best. Getting enough government support? No, I
:44:22. > :44:26.think we can always get a fair slice of the government funding. But with
:44:27. > :44:32.regard to unemployment, I think there is still a lot of worry here
:44:33. > :44:37.in the north`east, and in my constituency in particular,
:44:38. > :44:47.long`term unemployed has gone up by the worst amount in the whole
:44:48. > :44:51.country. Thank you. Now, parts of the north`east and
:44:52. > :44:54.Cumbria has some of the worst health problems in Britain. But a new
:44:55. > :44:58.funding formula being considered could reduce the amount of money GPs
:44:59. > :45:01.get to tackle them. NHS England is considering switching resources away
:45:02. > :45:04.from the most deprived areas and towards places with the highest
:45:05. > :45:08.number of older people. But there are potential winners as well as
:45:09. > :45:11.losers as Mark Denton reports. Pennywell in Sunderland, a place
:45:12. > :45:14.that is used to facing problems, high unemployment, anti`social
:45:15. > :45:23.behaviour ` for years, they have been challenges here. If you live in
:45:24. > :45:31.this area, you are more likely to die earlier. Women's life expectancy
:45:32. > :45:39.is three years less than the English average, men's is five years less.
:45:40. > :45:42.There are high levels of cardiovascular and respiratory
:45:43. > :45:47.disease, principally from smoking, but also from the history of heavy
:45:48. > :45:55.industry diseases. There are also concerns about obesity, based on
:45:56. > :45:59.poor diet. But despite those problems, could this area be about
:46:00. > :46:04.to see money axed from its health budget? NHS England is reviewing the
:46:05. > :46:11.way it handled money to clinical commissioning groups. At the moment,
:46:12. > :46:16.deprivation is taken into account. But one idea is to scrap that and
:46:17. > :46:20.switch funding to areas with high levels of elderly people And that
:46:21. > :46:23.could leave a hole in the North's health service funding. . Sunderland
:46:24. > :46:26.could lose ?41 million, Newcastle ?15 million, Gateshead ?21 million,
:46:27. > :46:29.and Cumbria ?62 million. Inevitably, commissioning groups will have to
:46:30. > :46:44.look at cutting some of the provision that they give no. `` give
:46:45. > :46:50.now. That may be some of the obesity clinics, smoking clinics. It may
:46:51. > :46:55.have an impact on people's health. The plan is to remove ?230 million
:46:56. > :46:59.from the health Commissioner's budget for the North East and
:47:00. > :47:03.Cumbria. That would have a devastating effect on health care in
:47:04. > :47:07.the north`east of England. What makes matters ten times worse is I
:47:08. > :47:12.asked about this year ago and received an assurance from the
:47:13. > :47:16.Minister that they would not do what they are now consulting on doing But
:47:17. > :47:27.they see things rather differently 70 miles away. . Just although there
:47:28. > :47:34.is a North Yorkshire market town of horse `` Hoares. Some in the local
:47:35. > :47:44.health service thinks of funding shake`up could benefit this
:47:45. > :47:49.community. This is a huge area. The doctors have got a lot of ground to
:47:50. > :47:54.cover here. If they put the business on age, it should benefit the
:47:55. > :48:00.practice enormously and help to put it on a secure financial footing.
:48:01. > :48:03.The cost of complying with rules and regulations, many of which have been
:48:04. > :48:11.brought in the last three years, falls disproportionately on us.
:48:12. > :48:16.North Yorkshire is a very popular place for people to grow old in.
:48:17. > :48:20.People who are more elderly have more complex health and social needs
:48:21. > :48:25.and this has to be reflected in a higher health care budget. There is
:48:26. > :48:29.still time for town and country to make their case. NHS England will
:48:30. > :48:33.make a final decision next month. The funding challenge ` giving areas
:48:34. > :48:40.with very different health needs a fair deal.
:48:41. > :48:46.This is taking health funding from deprived areas in the north and
:48:47. > :48:50.least deprived areas in the south. This is not something that will
:48:51. > :48:57.definitely happen. It is being consulted on. NHS England is doing a
:48:58. > :49:03.bit of kite flying here. I would say it as a bad thing myself. Under the
:49:04. > :49:09.coalition government, we have ring fenced health funding, but we have
:49:10. > :49:15.also made it a legal obligation to address inequality. I agree with the
:49:16. > :49:21.figures about the North East. We get 17 years less of healthy disability
:49:22. > :49:27.free living in the poorest areas than in people in places like
:49:28. > :49:32.Hampshire. If you are going to have a legal obligation on inequality,
:49:33. > :49:38.you cannot do this. Why is it coming back again? Why aren't Liberal
:49:39. > :49:58.Democrats in government saying stop this? Because this is a consulting
:49:59. > :50:03.`` phase. Dead of University have come forward with `` with good
:50:04. > :50:08.academic evidence against this. We need that evidence to come forward
:50:09. > :50:18.now. Just a consultation, kite flying? I would love to be able to
:50:19. > :50:22.trust the government that they will not just steam roller this through.
:50:23. > :50:28.It is what they have done with all the health and social care changes.
:50:29. > :50:35.The unfairness of this policy if it happens is just astonishing. Healthy
:50:36. > :50:42.life expectancy in South East Hampshire is 68 years. And in my
:50:43. > :50:53.constituency it is 58 years. Yet Sunderland, pierhead, `` Peter
:50:54. > :50:58.constituency it is 58 years. Yet But does this principle not make
:50:59. > :51:02.some sense? We have an ageing population, it does cost more to do
:51:03. > :51:08.with the health concentrations of older people, surely that is needed?
:51:09. > :51:14.But if you are healthy, it is not much of a cost. We have long`term
:51:15. > :51:20.implications from our industrial past, higher smoking and alcohol
:51:21. > :51:24.abuse... But we saw that GP practice who feel they have not had enough
:51:25. > :51:27.money in the past, not enough recognition for dealing with an
:51:28. > :51:37.ageing population. There might have been small adjustment that could
:51:38. > :51:46.have happened. This adjustment is not small. But suspicion he will be
:51:47. > :51:51.that it is very convenient. This formula benefits Conservative
:51:52. > :52:04.constituencies, unlike Labour constituencies in the North. But
:52:05. > :52:11.there is a legal obligation to address and fairness. That is by
:52:12. > :52:18.this funding proposal at it is being flagged at the moment cannot go
:52:19. > :52:21.ahead. But there is a legal requirement to address inequality
:52:22. > :52:29.and the government put this in place. Any changes in funding, that
:52:30. > :52:32.legal obligation has got to be carried out.
:52:33. > :52:35.And the issue of NHS funding for the north`east will be raised at
:52:36. > :52:37.Westminster on Tuesday by the Middlesbrough South MP Tom
:52:38. > :52:41.Blenkinsop. Now, back in January, Cumbria County
:52:42. > :52:45.Councillors took one of their most important decisions. They appeared
:52:46. > :52:52.to rule out the area as the site for the UK's high`level nuclear waste
:52:53. > :52:55.store. District councillors in Copeland and Allerdale took a
:52:56. > :52:59.different view, but that did not matter as all local authorities had
:53:00. > :53:02.to agree for the idea to move forward. Ten months later, ministers
:53:03. > :53:07.have reopened the consultation over where to put the underground storage
:53:08. > :53:10.and suggested a change in the rules. As Emily Unia reports, campaigners
:53:11. > :53:19.have called that a shameless attempt to usurp local democracy.
:53:20. > :53:22.Side`by`side, but fiercely opposed. Those for and against continuing
:53:23. > :53:29.with this search for somewhere to bury your waist and Cumbria. Hoping
:53:30. > :53:34.to make their voices heard outside the county council in January. The
:53:35. > :53:38.decision by county council is to pull out of the process overruled
:53:39. > :53:46.the yes vote by Copeland and Allerdale Borough Council. But now
:53:47. > :54:01.the government wants to overrule that. It is a move that makes more
:54:02. > :54:11.sense for some politicians in West Cumbria. In that consultation, it is
:54:12. > :54:15.clear to me that the rights are given to the local people and the
:54:16. > :54:19.local authority will just be there to listen to the community and then
:54:20. > :54:23.take the final decision. But those who hoped January's vote was binding
:54:24. > :54:35.are angry about what they say is an astonishingly undemocratic move by
:54:36. > :54:40.the government. They believe it is `` is geology is unsuitable. It has
:54:41. > :54:48.not gone down well with the local MP. It is the same old faces the
:54:49. > :54:55.same old antinuclear campaign. In a campaign against the presence of
:54:56. > :54:59.radioactive material, it is a curious one given that 75% of those
:55:00. > :55:17.materials nationally are already there. Well, let's put that point to
:55:18. > :55:22.Eddie Martin, a former leader of the county council who has helped set up
:55:23. > :55:28.the new Cumbria trust. We have not issued any mysteriess, we are
:55:29. > :55:31.totally in support of Sellafield. We have argued very strongly for much
:55:32. > :55:53.greater investment in Sellafield than hitherto. We are not
:55:54. > :55:57.antinuclear. One or two members of the Cumbria trust may be, but the
:55:58. > :56:02.Cumbria trust is not antinuclear. But you do want to prevent an
:56:03. > :56:08.antinuclear store `` and nuclear store being put in Cumbria. It is
:56:09. > :56:14.morally indefensible to put nuclear waste into a deep repository which
:56:15. > :56:18.is geologically unsafe. I do not know if the camera can see these,
:56:19. > :56:22.these are the number of holes which have been made in West Cumbria.
:56:23. > :56:30.Hundreds and hundreds of boreholes. Not just searching for a geological
:56:31. > :56:34.disposal facility, for oil, for gas, first seismic activity. There
:56:35. > :56:42.are all the boreholes, hundreds of them. What we know from qualified,
:56:43. > :56:48.distinguished professors of geology, West Cumbria is not
:56:49. > :56:57.suitable. That was still being explored. You're concerned as well
:56:58. > :57:06.about damaging Cumbria, but that image would already be damaged?
:57:07. > :57:14.There is a great deal of expertise at Sellafield. What we are saying is
:57:15. > :57:18.that far from storing it under the present conditions, there has to be
:57:19. > :57:24.greater investment in Sellafield in order to store it under the best
:57:25. > :57:34.conditions, not disability to this Swedish facility I visited recently.
:57:35. > :57:41.`` not dissimilar. Why do you want to stop the councils from having a
:57:42. > :57:50.look at this? At what? You holster for this store? Because we are told
:57:51. > :57:54.by a significant number of well`qualified people that you
:57:55. > :57:59.cannot put it in Copeland or Allerdale because they geology is
:58:00. > :58:03.not correct. We are talking about 30 years from now anyway.
:58:04. > :58:07.Now to the rest of the week's news and two of the North's MPs used
:58:08. > :58:11.debates at Westminster to draw attention to the problems faced by
:58:12. > :58:21.disabled people. Here is Mark with the week in 60 seconds.
:58:22. > :58:24.Hate crimes against disabled people should be treated the same as
:58:25. > :58:33.religious or racial attacks according to a Gateshead MP. This is
:58:34. > :58:36.a national problem and a national scandal where people with learning
:58:37. > :58:43.disability are having dreadful experiences because of bullying.
:58:44. > :58:49.They risked elderly and blind people from electrical vehicles has been
:58:50. > :59:00.raised by our north`east MP. They are so quiet, the pose a danger to
:59:01. > :59:04.those members of the public who rely on hearing sound to judge when it is
:59:05. > :59:09.safe to cross the road. Finally, a late`night levy, the
:59:10. > :59:19.first in the UK, is started in Newcastle.
:59:20. > :59:24.Well, let's talk a little bit more about electric vehicles and the
:59:25. > :59:28.danger they might pose to pedestrians because they are just
:59:29. > :59:37.too quiet. I understand you want this to
:59:38. > :59:45.happen. But if manufacturers like this, why the need to legislate? I
:59:46. > :59:51.went out on the street blindfolded with a guide dog and that gave me a
:59:52. > :59:56.powerful sense of how scary it is out there and how much you are
:59:57. > :00:01.dependent on what you can hear. What they are saying is that if it is
:00:02. > :00:05.just a voluntary thing, you cannot be sure that all manufacturers will
:00:06. > :00:10.follow that. In terms of confidence, people who are visually impaired,
:00:11. > :00:14.will worry when they are going out. They persuaded me and I persuaded my
:00:15. > :00:21.group in the European Parliament. The wonderful to include it as a
:00:22. > :00:34.statutory part of legislation on noise which is decided at a European
:00:35. > :00:39.level. We are hoping that we will win the day on this point and that
:00:40. > :00:46.we will get it through. In your constituency, bloody want more
:00:47. > :00:49.legislation on this? `` do they want more legislation on this?
:00:50. > :01:09.they are already doing this by themselves. I have driven in one of
:01:10. > :01:21.these vehicles and the noise that is admitted if you drive at less than
:01:22. > :01:27.90 mph, `` at more than 90 mph, there is greater noise. I am very
:01:28. > :01:34.pleased to hear this has been done and I am baffled by the government
:01:35. > :01:39.is resisting it. The evidence is pretty sketchy. To rush to law on
:01:40. > :01:46.sketchy evidence is that a good idea? I do not think it is
:01:47. > :01:52.satisfactory until we have had accidents.
:01:53. > :01:56.Don't forget to let me know your views by following me on twitter and
:01:57. > :01:58.letting rip, politely. Next week, a north`east MP turns the tables and
:01:59. > :01:59.puts some tough questions north`east MP turns the tables and
:02:00. > :01:59.Thank you for coming, north`east MP turns the tables and
:02:00. > :02:11.puts some tough questions to Thank you for coming, great to see
:02:12. > :02:19.you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's relationship with Unite and other
:02:20. > :02:32.issues all to be discussed in the Week Ahead and we're joined now by
:02:33. > :02:35.the shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. First I would like to get
:02:36. > :02:38.your reaction to the interview I did earlier with the General Secretary
:02:39. > :02:41.of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. Let's look at what he said. This is
:02:42. > :02:46.a trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all of the
:02:47. > :02:50.demands and the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, are you telling me
:02:51. > :02:54.they are not the conservative mouthpiece in the media? They are
:02:55. > :03:00.laying traps for Ed Miliband and he should not fall into them. Though it
:03:01. > :03:06.is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey denies a lot of the allegations put,
:03:07. > :03:12.but let me be clear in an industrial dispute, the use of aggressive or
:03:13. > :03:17.intimidatory tactics by either side is totally unacceptable. Do you
:03:18. > :03:21.think it is wrong for Unite to send its members to the homes of
:03:22. > :03:26.managers? I don't know what happened in that particular case, but I think
:03:27. > :03:30.you should keep people 's families out of these things and if you are
:03:31. > :03:35.doing something that can upset particularly children, that is a bad
:03:36. > :03:41.thing. I know he denied a number of things you put to him. We now know
:03:42. > :03:46.some of the content of Labour 's own report into what happened at Falkirk
:03:47. > :03:49.and they found all sorts of things - forgery, coercion, trickery and even
:03:50. > :04:02.that their own investigation was being thwarted by Unite. What should
:04:03. > :04:12.Labour do next? I have not read the report. We are told that the latest
:04:13. > :04:15.allegations that have been made is something that the police are
:04:16. > :04:26.looking into so that is not something I think would be
:04:27. > :04:29.appropriate for me to comment on. We learned Labour Party members in the
:04:30. > :04:34.Falkirk constituency have complained to the leader of the Scottish party
:04:35. > :04:45.about a lack of action by the Labour Party on what happened in Falkirk. I
:04:46. > :04:49.am not part of the Scottish party and that is news to me. But the
:04:50. > :04:53.police have indicated they are looking at the new information that
:04:54. > :04:56.has come to light. It is a bit like the 1980s and there was an
:04:57. > :05:01.electrifying moment when Neil Kinnock took on the militant
:05:02. > :05:07.tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take
:05:08. > :05:13.on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an
:05:14. > :05:17.electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for
:05:18. > :05:22.seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the
:05:23. > :05:28.disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk
:05:29. > :05:32.categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying
:05:33. > :05:39.to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members.
:05:40. > :05:42.In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had
:05:43. > :05:48.people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is
:05:49. > :05:53.that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from
:05:54. > :05:57.party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced
:05:58. > :06:02.this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we
:06:03. > :06:07.change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 2 th
:06:08. > :06:11.century. The reform of the way in which we connect and our
:06:12. > :06:15.relationship with the union puts us in a good position because we have
:06:16. > :06:27.this relationship between the 3 million working people who ensure
:06:28. > :06:31.our public services function. At Grangemouth INEOS stood up to
:06:32. > :06:37.unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk Labour rolled over to the Unite
:06:38. > :06:45.union. I do not agree with that I'd just explained the reason. I do not
:06:46. > :06:51.think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the
:06:52. > :06:57.basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it
:06:58. > :07:02.after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to
:07:03. > :07:08.send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be
:07:09. > :07:14.secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That
:07:15. > :07:19.constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it.
:07:20. > :07:26.This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do
:07:27. > :07:31.not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an
:07:32. > :07:39.ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory
:07:40. > :07:43.suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union
:07:44. > :07:52.members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the
:07:53. > :08:01.facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made On
:08:02. > :08:06.your point I think it is healthy the Conservatives are looking to recruit
:08:07. > :08:13.trade union members. A lot of their rhetoric is very negative in respect
:08:14. > :08:19.of trade unions. If you look at Unison a third of the members vote
:08:20. > :08:24.Conservative. In Unite union some of their members vote Tory. I think
:08:25. > :08:30.trade unions have a lot to bring to our country. It is one of the things
:08:31. > :08:35.many up and down the country will find very frustrating, a lot of the
:08:36. > :08:39.good work that unions do if it gets tarnished with all the negative
:08:40. > :08:45.stuff you see... Unite are working in partnership with GM and the
:08:46. > :08:50.senior management in Ellesmere Port and the government ensured that we
:08:51. > :08:58.kept that plant open. That gets overlooked by all of this. Do you
:08:59. > :09:02.not think the bolshie behaviour from unions are motivated not by
:09:03. > :09:06.strength, but by weakness. Unite know they cannot paralyse the
:09:07. > :09:12.country in the way their forebears used to be able to do. Their
:09:13. > :09:17.penetration rates in the private sector is 11%. The union movement is
:09:18. > :09:22.weaker than it was before I was born. Some of that truck killers and
:09:23. > :09:27.bad behaviour either death spasms of their movement rather than something
:09:28. > :09:36.that is motivated by the fact they can't paralyse the country. You have
:09:37. > :09:40.two increase the membership. But there is an issue about the public
:09:41. > :09:45.perception of trade unions. It is right they should be a voice of
:09:46. > :09:50.protest and anger and stand up for their members when it is necessary.
:09:51. > :09:56.But people join unions for their aspiration. The unions do a lot so
:09:57. > :10:01.that people can move up in their workplace. That profile needs to
:10:02. > :10:08.come across as strongly as the protest part. I want to move on to
:10:09. > :10:16.business. The head of the CBI has said that Labour's pro-enterprise
:10:17. > :10:21.credentials have suffered a setback. He said that in relation to Ed
:10:22. > :10:25.Miliband's speech. I was on the radio earlier. If you look at the
:10:26. > :10:30.things in the speech, some of that was going to be uncomfortable for
:10:31. > :10:34.some of the countries and they tend to be companies represented by the
:10:35. > :10:40.CBI, like energy companies, like land developers, a lot of the big
:10:41. > :10:48.business lose out from is not doing the corporate tax cut. The energy
:10:49. > :10:52.freeze is going to help over 2. million businesses that have been
:10:53. > :10:56.hit by high energy bills. The business community has said we had
:10:57. > :11:02.to bring the public sector finances back into balance. That is why we
:11:03. > :11:08.decided to switch the money being used to reduce corporation tax and
:11:09. > :11:12.use that to help a much greater variety of businesses by doing a
:11:13. > :11:21.business rate cut. It is all pro enterprise. They also seem to be
:11:22. > :11:27.critical of your new idea of a living wage. They are not critical.
:11:28. > :11:34.It would not be compulsory, but there would be a tax credit if they
:11:35. > :11:39.paid it. It is good for business because if people are earning more
:11:40. > :11:44.than they are more productive. It is good for the employee and good for
:11:45. > :11:52.us as well because it means we are not having to subsidise people to be
:11:53. > :11:59.paid to the extent we have with tax credits and benefits. Everybody
:12:00. > :12:06.benefits from this. We all know after 2009 we need to have bold
:12:07. > :12:14.change. Does Labour paid a living wage? We have got over 20 of our
:12:15. > :12:19.councils signed up to doing so and we have made commitments in respect
:12:20. > :12:29.to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party pay it? I believe so. Would it not
:12:30. > :12:42.be worth checking? Do you get a living wage? Yes, of course I do. I
:12:43. > :12:47.understand we paid a living wage. What does it feel like for Tristram
:12:48. > :12:55.Hunt who has taken over your mantle as Labour's next leader? Is that a
:12:56. > :12:59.relieved or are you angry? He is one of my best friends and at the end of
:13:00. > :13:04.the day if we got obsessed with this soap opera stuff we would never get
:13:05. > :13:13.anything done and we are working together to make sure we have got
:13:14. > :13:19.the right skills in our workforce. That is all for today. The daily
:13:20. > :13:28.politics is on all week. I will be here again next weekend at 12:2 pm
:13:29. > :13:30.after the Remembrance Day service at the Cenotaph. Remember if it is
:13:31. > :13:59.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Planet Earth - it's unique.
:14:00. > :14:04.It has life. To understand why, we're going to
:14:05. > :14:11.build a planet...up there. There were the objects that were
:14:12. > :14:14.making the Earth. We're now weightless.
:14:15. > :14:17.That's how our planet started. Your arms are a little bit long
:14:18. > :14:20.Is that as small as they go? This is like every shopping trip
:14:21. > :14:25.I've ever been on.