:00:35. > :00:39.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Walls are being
:00:40. > :00:42.re-painted in Belfast as Gerry Adams begins his fourth day in police
:00:43. > :00:47.custody in connection with one of the most brutal and shocking murders
:00:48. > :00:58.of the Troubles. That's our top story.
:00:59. > :01:01.He may have got egg on his face this week but Nigel Farage is a serious
:01:02. > :01:04.electoral threat in this month's elections. I'll ask the Conservative
:01:05. > :01:06.Party Chairman Grant Shapps how worried he is.
:01:07. > :01:11.And we're on the trail of Nick Clegg. You were voted the best
:01:12. > :01:19.looking party leader and the most likely to be a good cook.
:01:20. > :01:23.looking party leader and the most In the North East and Cumbria, UKIP
:01:24. > :01:26.and Labour candidates go head to head in the studio.
:01:27. > :01:27.And we get the views on immigration from the Eastern Europeans living
:01:28. > :01:34.and full of Euro candidates here to
:01:35. > :01:37.debate what it means for London. And with me, as always, the best and
:01:38. > :01:41.the brightest political panel in the business - Nick Watt, Helen Lewis
:01:42. > :01:46.and Janan Ganesh. They'll be throwing metaphorical rotten eggs
:01:47. > :01:49.into the twittersphere. First this morning - Gerry Adams,
:01:50. > :01:52.President of Sinn Fein, has spent a fourth night in police custody after
:01:53. > :02:05.he was arrested in connection with the killing of Jean McConville more
:02:06. > :02:08.than 40 years ago. Sinn Fein has claimed that the arrest is
:02:09. > :02:11.politically motivated coming, as it does, during local and European
:02:12. > :02:14.election campaigns. Northern Ireland's deputy first minister,
:02:15. > :02:17.Martin McGuinness, has indicated he might review the party's support for
:02:18. > :02:19.policing in the province if Gerry Adams is charged. The Jean
:02:20. > :02:21.McConville murder was one of the most notorious cases of the
:02:22. > :02:27.Troubles. The widowed mother of ten was
:02:28. > :02:33.kidnapped from her home in December 1972, never to be seen alive again.
:02:34. > :02:39.The IRA denied involvement but in 1999 admitted it had murdered her
:02:40. > :02:44.and several others, known as the Disappeared. Before his death, the
:02:45. > :02:45.former IRA commander Brendan Hughes pointed the finger at Gerry Adams,
:02:46. > :03:00.claiming: In April this year, either Bell was
:03:01. > :03:10.charged with aiding and abetting the murder. -- Ivor Bell. Gerry Adams
:03:11. > :03:14.has always insisted he is innocent of any part in the abduction and
:03:15. > :03:18.killing all burial of Mrs McConville.
:03:19. > :03:21.We were hoping to speak to the Northern Ireland Secretary, Theresa
:03:22. > :03:24.Villiers, but having agreed to do an interview with us this morning, she
:03:25. > :03:31.pulled out. But we are joined from Belfast by Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey.
:03:32. > :03:44.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. And the police just doing their job by
:03:45. > :03:49.questioning Gerry Adams? Gerry Adams said publicly some time ago that he
:03:50. > :03:53.was available to speak to the police, but that is not what this is
:03:54. > :03:57.about at the moment, because what we have here is clearly evidence in our
:03:58. > :04:03.mind of political interference in what should be due process. Gerry
:04:04. > :04:07.Adams made it clear some time ago he wanted to speak to the police, it
:04:08. > :04:13.was available at any time, and yet that request was not taken up until
:04:14. > :04:16.three weeks into an election and we believe that was deliberately
:04:17. > :04:22.orchestrated by a small number of people. What evidence can you
:04:23. > :04:30.present this morning that proves that claim? The direct circumstances
:04:31. > :04:37.Gerry Adams finds himself in at the moment, take that in stark contrast
:04:38. > :04:50.when they have dealt with members of the British Army for instance...
:04:51. > :04:56.That is just circumstantial. The PSNI know that the soldiers involved
:04:57. > :05:00.in that and a number of other high-profile killings of citizens
:05:01. > :05:07.here, and not one of those people has been arrested. In fact any of
:05:08. > :05:12.the people who were interviewed were interviewed by request. There was a
:05:13. > :05:21.stark contrast, in terms of how they have dealt with the British military
:05:22. > :05:26.involving state killings. We haven't got too much time. Sinn Fein said it
:05:27. > :05:32.would review its support for the PSNI if Gerry Adams is charged. That
:05:33. > :05:36.sounds like political interference in the police process. It's not
:05:37. > :05:42.because we have a clear mandate from the people who elect us. Policing
:05:43. > :05:50.has been an important part of the peace process here for many years,
:05:51. > :05:54.Sinn Fein plays an important role in local policing partnerships. We
:05:55. > :05:59.negotiate to make sure we have powers transferred here to elected
:06:00. > :06:06.representatives in the north. It is a long way to go before we have
:06:07. > :06:18.policing highly accountable, and making sure they deliver a very
:06:19. > :06:27.impartial service. How will he react if Gerry Adams is charged? I am
:06:28. > :06:32.still trying to get a clear answer. If Gerry Adams is charged, will you
:06:33. > :06:39.withdraw support for the Northern Ireland police service? We view this
:06:40. > :06:44.as a serious situation and a serious ongoing situation and we will
:06:45. > :06:49.monitor how this pans out. We have a very important role to play to
:06:50. > :06:57.support the police service here. We have done consistently, worked with
:06:58. > :06:59.them on a daily basis, but we will not accept political interference by
:07:00. > :07:06.a small number of people in the police who are undermining the
:07:07. > :07:12.police. We will not accept political policing. If there was evidence, and
:07:13. > :07:17.I emphasise the word if, because we have seen none, but if there were
:07:18. > :07:22.evidence to justify Gerry Adams being charged, why should he not be
:07:23. > :07:26.charged? It is my understanding from the family of Gerry Adams that there
:07:27. > :07:37.has not been a single shred of evidence put forward. I understand
:07:38. > :07:41.that, but if there was evidence, why should he not be charged? You put
:07:42. > :07:46.that caveat yourself and then you expect me to speculate, there is no
:07:47. > :07:49.way I will do that. The fact of the matter is there hasn't been one
:07:50. > :07:56.single shred of evidence put to Gerry Adams in the last few days, in
:07:57. > :07:59.fact what has been put to him is a range of issues of newspaper
:08:00. > :08:05.cuttings, books, statements made from people, including from people
:08:06. > :08:15.who didn't want their statements released until they have died.
:08:16. > :08:16.who didn't want their statements was charged, again I emphasise the
:08:17. > :08:26.word if, does the police process fall apart? The police process is a
:08:27. > :08:29.fragile entity, it requires work and we have been saying this publicly
:08:30. > :08:43.and privately with the Irish and British
:08:44. > :08:44.and privately with the Irish and process has to be nurtured and
:08:45. > :08:49.developed. We are not out of the woods yet. From a Republican point
:08:50. > :08:58.of view we have been working flat out. I just wanted a quick answer to
:08:59. > :09:03.my question, is a yes or no? What question I asking me? Is the peace
:09:04. > :09:07.process in jeopardy? It is fragile and I am not going to have words put
:09:08. > :09:15.into my mouth but I don't want to use. It has to be worked out and
:09:16. > :09:19.nurtured. Thank you for joining us. Nick Watt, you were a Northern
:09:20. > :09:26.Ireland correspondent like myself in days gone by. Where is this going to
:09:27. > :09:30.go? It shows how challenging the peace process is because on the one
:09:31. > :09:34.hand you have the unspeakable pain of the McConville family, but you
:09:35. > :09:39.also have the danger of not having mechanisms to deal with the past.
:09:40. > :09:43.South Africa is a good example, you have to have some mechanism to deal
:09:44. > :09:52.with the past because if you don't, you are going to have, as Sinn Fein
:09:53. > :09:58.have now, someone in a police cell but you don't have the arrests of
:09:59. > :10:06.the Bloody Sunday soldiers. Paramilitary prisoners were released
:10:07. > :10:11.after two years... We have seen no action against somebody accused of
:10:12. > :10:15.the Hyde Park bombings, it is not a one-way street. We have the
:10:16. > :10:23.decommissioning of IRA weapons by the IRA, therefore destroying
:10:24. > :10:27.crucial evidence. You have these inconsistencies because you don't
:10:28. > :10:32.have an mechanism for dealing with the past, but doing that is really
:10:33. > :10:37.difficult because of the pain of real people. Don't you get a feeling
:10:38. > :10:41.that here in London they are hoping he will not be charged? Definitely
:10:42. > :10:45.because it would be nice if everything went away, but the civil
:10:46. > :10:53.case of the family is taken out of the hands of the police. You can see
:10:54. > :11:00.here a real failure in Westminster to see this as anything other than
:11:01. > :11:05.settled. David Cameron we know sees himself as a chairman. I was
:11:06. > :11:09.speaking to a friend in Northern Ireland who said he has never met
:11:10. > :11:15.Gerry Adams and I think this is very revealing. They consider this as a
:11:16. > :11:19.settled issue that will not trouble Westminster again. It would be, but
:11:20. > :11:24.the relatives of the disappeared don't want it to be settled. This
:11:25. > :11:30.points to the reality that the Belfast agreement probably had to be
:11:31. > :11:34.done, but the moral price at which it was purchased was far greater
:11:35. > :11:39.than we were willing to admit during the euphoria. For a country that
:11:40. > :11:46.prides itself by the rule of law to tolerate the early release of
:11:47. > :11:51.prisoners and former pal and military -- paramilitaries, I think
:11:52. > :11:57.was a very serious matter. As for the PSNI, it only exists because its
:11:58. > :12:05.predecessor failed to command the confidence of the nationalist
:12:06. > :12:12.community. It is a very big deal if even the PSNI ends up falling into
:12:13. > :12:20.the same trap. We have to is leave it there I'm afraid. It was the
:12:21. > :12:23.Conservative's local election campaign launch on Friday, and what
:12:24. > :12:26.did David Cameron focus on? Burning local issues like the state of our
:12:27. > :12:29.roads, rubbish collection or care of the elderly? No. It was Europe. The
:12:30. > :12:32.Prime Minister re-iterated again his promise of an in-out referendum on
:12:33. > :12:36.our membership of the EU in 2017. And it's being reported this morning
:12:37. > :12:40.that he will share a platform with Nigel Farage in a pre-general
:12:41. > :12:43.election debate. Here's what the UKIP leader had to say about the
:12:44. > :12:51.issue when he was on the Marr Show this morning with Ed Miliband. David
:12:52. > :12:57.Cameron very often makes these vague promises, then doesn't deliver
:12:58. > :13:03.afterwards. I don't think he has any intention of allowing me into any of
:13:04. > :13:09.these debates. Perhaps Ed Miliband wants to debate? We have got to have
:13:10. > :13:13.the TV debates as we did join the last general election. I think David
:13:14. > :13:18.Cameron is doing everything he can to wriggle out of them. It is up to
:13:19. > :13:28.the broadcasters but whether they invite Nigel. My main desire is that
:13:29. > :13:37.the debates go ahead. We are joined now by Grant Shapps. Will he be
:13:38. > :13:40.included? The debates were not without problems, they took place
:13:41. > :13:46.during the campaign period and disrupted the flow of the campaign,
:13:47. > :13:50.taking it out of the regions, people getting to speak to the leaders so a
:13:51. > :13:55.longer period for that would be helpful. I think they are good idea
:13:56. > :14:00.and they should go ahead, but all of the negotiation about who is
:14:01. > :14:06.involved is yet to happen. So it is not a done deal that Nigel Farage
:14:07. > :14:11.will be included? That needs to be negotiated with the TV companies.
:14:12. > :14:19.The Conservatives believe we should have debates, but exactly the format
:14:20. > :14:25.and the timing, all of the -- that will be debated in the autumn, but
:14:26. > :14:33.first we have European elections, the Queen 's speech and a Scottish
:14:34. > :14:36.referendum. The local election campaign was launched on Friday. Why
:14:37. > :14:46.did you talk more about Europe than local councils? Both are important.
:14:47. > :14:50.The local elections are critically important for people, their local
:14:51. > :14:56.services. It is easy to forget, for example, that the council tax has
:14:57. > :15:01.been largely frozen since this Government came to power, a big
:15:02. > :15:07.contrast to Dublin under the previous Labour government. So why
:15:08. > :15:16.did you go on and on about Europe? Let me show you the poster used to
:15:17. > :15:21.launch your local election campaign. There it is, and in-out referendum
:15:22. > :15:26.on Europe, the day of the local elections, where is the word local?
:15:27. > :15:30.Is it in small print? I hear what you're saying, I am happy to be here
:15:31. > :15:35.to talk about the local elections. But you are right, they are on the
:15:36. > :15:40.same day, and not many people know that only by voting conservative can
:15:41. > :15:45.you get an in-out referendum. -- Conservative. UKIP cannot deliver,
:15:46. > :15:51.we can, it is the same date, so people... This was the launch of the
:15:52. > :15:55.local election campaign. Why does the Prime Minister have to keep on
:15:56. > :16:01.promising something he has already promised? The actual referendum
:16:02. > :16:06.would be in 2017. He promised it before, he keeps repeating it
:16:07. > :16:11.because he knows people don't really trust him. I think it is a question
:16:12. > :16:16.of the fact that, actually, unless you remind people that the pledges
:16:17. > :16:19.there, that the only way to get an in-out referendum is to vote for
:16:20. > :16:25.it, this is a critical moment at which we need people to vote for
:16:26. > :16:29.that referendum if they want it. It is not the case, as I saw this
:16:30. > :16:33.morning, being said by Nigel Farage, that a referendum was promised
:16:34. > :16:37.before and not delivered. There was no referendum in the last manifesto.
:16:38. > :16:46.There will be in the next one. There was a cast-iron guarantee, in the
:16:47. > :16:54.Sun in 2006. Let's just clear that up... Once the Lisbon Treaty... In
:16:55. > :16:59.the Sun article, he said, we will have a referendum on the Lisbon
:17:00. > :17:03.Treaty. Clearly, because that treaty had been passed before the general
:17:04. > :17:09.election, it is difficult to have a referendum on something in the past.
:17:10. > :17:15.We joined Europe in the 1970s, having a referendum on that! Look,
:17:16. > :17:17.that is about the future. Our relationship with Europe is
:17:18. > :17:23.absolutely critical. Most people in this country feel, I was not old
:17:24. > :17:28.enough to vote in that referendum, most of those who voted, they voted
:17:29. > :17:32.for a Common Market, that is not what we have got. We want to
:17:33. > :17:39.continue the work we have been doing in the EU Budget, what did UKIP do?
:17:40. > :17:43.They voted against it. We want more of those powers brought home, and we
:17:44. > :17:48.will put it to a referendum, and people will have to vote
:17:49. > :17:52.Conservative to get it. We have been looking at new research, almost two
:17:53. > :17:56.thirds of Conservative members are considering voting for UKIP, almost
:17:57. > :18:07.two thirds. I have a simple message here, which is this. If you vote for
:18:08. > :18:13.UKIP... Can we have it up? 30% are likely, 30% are possible. That is
:18:14. > :18:18.why it is important we are making these arguments. If you vote for
:18:19. > :18:22.UKIP, you are voting to take us further away from returning powers
:18:23. > :18:26.to this country, further from a referendum. It is support for Ed
:18:27. > :18:31.Miliband becoming Prime Minister, and he will do exactly what Labour
:18:32. > :18:35.have always done - hand away powers, and away the rebate for nothing in
:18:36. > :18:40.return, giving Europe even more so over the day-to-day affairs in
:18:41. > :18:43.Britain. Why are so many people considering voting UKIP? It is to
:18:44. > :18:48.hold your feet to the fire, they do not trust you on a referendum, so
:18:49. > :18:54.they will vote UKIP to force you to tap in your line. We have a very
:18:55. > :18:59.tough line. If I had said four years ago that this government would
:19:00. > :19:03.manage to cut the overall EU budget, would take us out of the
:19:04. > :19:07.bailout fund that Labour got us into, passing a law that no more
:19:08. > :19:11.powers can go to Europe without a referendum, if I had said that,
:19:12. > :19:15.people would say, I do not believe it will happen. Not only have we
:19:16. > :19:19.done these things, we are promising and in-out referendum, and the only
:19:20. > :19:22.way to get it is to vote Conservative. Nigel Farage has
:19:23. > :19:26.said, we can't change anything in Europe, and it is no wonder that the
:19:27. > :19:31.president of the European Commission has said, we love having these UKIP
:19:32. > :19:37.MEPs, because they don't turn up and vote, apart from when they vote
:19:38. > :19:42.against the cut in the budget. It goes beyond UKIP in your party,
:19:43. > :19:47.because this research also showed that those Conservative members most
:19:48. > :19:52.likely to vote for UKIP, they said they do not feel valued or respected
:19:53. > :19:55.by their own leadership, and they regard David Cameron as ideological
:19:56. > :20:02.eat more remote from them than UKIP. What I would say is look at that
:20:03. > :20:11.list... Let me take that step further. What people need our series
:20:12. > :20:20.solutions to serious problems. When people vote for a UKIP MEP, I will
:20:21. > :20:24.say, which one of the 40% of the MEPs who got in for UKIP last time
:20:25. > :20:29.are you voting for, the ones above left or defected, the ones have gone
:20:30. > :20:33.to jail? 40% have ended up not delivering. People have a right to
:20:34. > :20:37.know what to expect when they vote in these elections. They can look at
:20:38. > :20:42.our record at home, and this goes to the point you have raised about what
:20:43. > :20:47.we have done in Britain to get this economy back on track, recover from
:20:48. > :20:55.Labour's recession. We are prepared to take those decisions in Europe as
:20:56. > :20:58.well. Presumably, active Conservative members, they know
:20:59. > :21:04.that, so why do they not feel valued by the leadership? I spend time
:21:05. > :21:10.going up and down the country meeting Conservative members, and
:21:11. > :21:13.they are on the doorstep, last weekend 150 out in Enfield
:21:14. > :21:21.campaigning for the European and local elections... Why are they keen
:21:22. > :21:26.on UKIP? When I meet somebody who says that, not necessarily a
:21:27. > :21:36.member... Have you met members of say they will vote UKIP? No, but a
:21:37. > :21:42.vote for UKIP is... Do not do it, you will end up with Labour having
:21:43. > :21:46.more control, handing away powers to Europe. 51-year-old meeting members
:21:47. > :21:52.who say they will vote UKIP, you must be out of touch. -- if you are
:21:53. > :21:57.not meeting members. Some of your members are thinking of voting UKIP.
:21:58. > :22:01.I spend huge amount of time travelling around, I just told you
:22:02. > :22:08.about this action day in Enfield, where we had an enormous turnout.
:22:09. > :22:11.Those members were on the doorsteps pointing out that you can only get
:22:12. > :22:17.reform in Europe by voting Conservative. Labour and the Lib
:22:18. > :22:22.Dems will not deliver, UKIP can't, Conservatives will. You have not got
:22:23. > :22:29.that message across, because a YouGov poll shows, on Europe, who
:22:30. > :22:36.has the best policies? Tories 18%, Labour 19%, UKIP 27%. On the
:22:37. > :22:41.economy, Tories 27%, Labour 23, UKIP 4. Why don't you shut up about
:22:42. > :22:47.Europe and talk about the economy? Look, on the 27th of May, we have
:22:48. > :22:51.European elections, as well as local elections. If I don't talk about the
:22:52. > :22:54.European elections, you would say what you said at the beginning about
:22:55. > :22:58.not talking about the local elections! These are serious
:22:59. > :23:02.elections, and the point I am tried to make is that the issues at stake
:23:03. > :23:07.are not peripheral, they are not unimportant. Our MEPs have been
:23:08. > :23:09.battling to cut red tape from a European level on small businesses,
:23:10. > :23:12.the same thing this government has been doing for small businesses
:23:13. > :23:19.domestic league, where for example every small business owner watching
:23:20. > :23:22.this show knows they have got ?2000 back in employment announced on
:23:23. > :23:25.national insurance contributions. We are doing it at home, we are doing
:23:26. > :23:30.it in Europe, and it is important to tie that together. Ireland that Mr
:23:31. > :23:46.Cameron saying, you should stop banging on about Europe... -- I
:23:47. > :23:55.remember. This is before the last general election, as in days for the
:23:56. > :23:59.Lib Dems, 18%. Even then, you didn't win the election, and now you are
:24:00. > :24:05.only three or four points ahead, it doesn't look good for you, does it?
:24:06. > :24:11.Even then, the poll did not turn out to be what it was on the day. No,
:24:12. > :24:14.that is what happens, that is the voting intentions now! You are in a
:24:15. > :24:21.worse position than a year before the last election, which you didn't
:24:22. > :24:25.win. We are almost proving the point that you can take a clip at any
:24:26. > :24:29.moment in time, not sounding like a politician, but the only poll that
:24:30. > :24:35.matters is on the day. In just over a year's time, people will have a
:24:36. > :24:39.completely different picture to look at than these opinion polls. We have
:24:40. > :24:45.an economy from being a basket case, the great Labour recession
:24:46. > :24:48.knocking 7% of this economy, hurting every family, to a point where we
:24:49. > :24:54.the fastest-growing economy in the developed world. In a year's time, I
:24:55. > :24:57.hope people will see that we are the people who've taken the difficult
:24:58. > :25:02.decisions, got the economy to the right place, more security for you
:25:03. > :25:06.and your family. Do not give the car keys back to the people who crashed
:25:07. > :25:11.it in the first place. If I had a pound for every time I have heard
:25:12. > :25:17.that! It is clearly not getting through. On the Pfizer attempted of
:25:18. > :25:23.AstraZeneca, Mr Miliband called this morning for a tougher public
:25:24. > :25:27.interest test such big takeovers. Do you agree with that or not? Let me
:25:28. > :25:34.be absolutely clear, if there is any kind of joining, we are in favour of
:25:35. > :25:44.British jobs, British aren't deep, expanding our pharmaceutical sector.
:25:45. > :25:55.-- R But what Mr Mallon and wants to do with rent caps, he is
:25:56. > :26:03.anti-business. -- Mr Miliband. He wants to take us back to the bad old
:26:04. > :26:11.those. -- bad old days. Should there be a bigger public interest test? We
:26:12. > :26:16.have seen some takeovers that people have criticised, but others, like
:26:17. > :26:21.Bentley, Land Rover, which have been very successful. Should there be a
:26:22. > :26:24.tougher test?! We will have tests that ensured this get-together
:26:25. > :26:29.becomes a great Anglo-American project, or it doesn't happen, but
:26:30. > :26:34.the Miliband approach is simply to be anti-business, anti-jobs and
:26:35. > :26:38.anti-job security. Grant Shapps, thank you.
:26:39. > :26:42.A challenging week for the Liberal Democrats with a local election
:26:43. > :26:46.campaign overshadowed by another row with the Conservatives about knife
:26:47. > :26:52.crime. Adam has spent the day with Nick Clegg on the campaign trail.
:26:53. > :26:56.How nice! Nick Clegg is taking me on a political mini break to the
:26:57. > :27:01.Cotswolds. Yes, we are getting the train. He wants to highlight what
:27:02. > :27:05.his party is doing in local government, and a personal passion
:27:06. > :27:09.of his in Europe. Graham Watson, the Lib Dem MEP for the south-west, has
:27:10. > :27:15.been running a campaign to have prunes recognised as a laxative. Is
:27:16. > :27:19.that Lib Dems battling for Britain in Europe? It is not our front page
:27:20. > :27:25.manifesto commitment! It is one of many things that Graham does, he
:27:26. > :27:32.does many other things. In fact, he is a good example of an MEP who took
:27:33. > :27:35.a pioneering role, for instance, in making sure... There is the proven
:27:36. > :27:43.world, but also the crime-fighting role. -- prune. He has done work to
:27:44. > :27:48.make sure that when British criminals flee justice, we can bring
:27:49. > :27:52.them back. And he has promoted prunes! First stop, a gorgeous
:27:53. > :27:58.country pub, but it turns out everyone is a journalist or a very
:27:59. > :28:02.on message activist. Dark days, being a Lib Dem in the last few
:28:03. > :28:07.years? Strangely not. If you find you are a Lib Dem deep down, you do
:28:08. > :28:10.not get that disheartened, because you know that, locally, you are
:28:11. > :28:15.doing so well for the people that you live next door to that,
:28:16. > :28:20.actually, I find I am almost impervious to what happens on a
:28:21. > :28:25.national level. I am mayor of Cirencester. Have you taken any
:28:26. > :28:30.leadership lessons from Nick Clegg, inspiring new in your leadership of
:28:31. > :28:34.Cirencester? I think what he has demonstrated his patience. It has
:28:35. > :28:37.been a tough time, he has taken a lot of flak, and as the mayor of a
:28:38. > :28:44.town, lots of people agree with you and a fair few don't. You are a full
:28:45. > :28:48.on mayor, he is just a Deputy Prime Minister, do you outrank him? I
:28:49. > :28:54.don't think so, he is in government, I am not. So our there any normal
:28:55. > :28:59.people in here? We are from Swindon, you cannot get more
:29:00. > :29:07.abnormal. Are you a big fan of his? No! What has he done wrong? I don't
:29:08. > :29:14.believe in his views at all. Where has he got to? Nigel Farage would
:29:15. > :29:20.have had a pint! At this time in the morning a copy was more appropriate.
:29:21. > :29:25.I have no time for a drink of any kind, because now we are off to look
:29:26. > :29:29.at a local traffic blackspot. This is amazing, like a Lib Dem election
:29:30. > :29:35.leaflet brought to life, Lib Dems pointing at a road. High-vis
:29:36. > :29:41.jackets! Next we had to giggle full bath, but there will be no Regency
:29:42. > :29:51.sightseeing for us, oh no, Nick is taking us to an abandoned
:29:52. > :29:54.wilderness. We have just had a health and safety briefing, we have
:29:55. > :29:58.been told to look out for dive-bombing seagulls and an angry
:29:59. > :30:02.fox. That is the sort of thing Nick Clegg has to put up with. He wants
:30:03. > :30:10.to talk about the economy but he has to dodge the day's beat new story,
:30:11. > :30:13.letters leaked by a Tory suggesting that Lib Dems are soft on knife
:30:14. > :30:23.crime. Isn't that a new kind of warfare? I just think it is silly.
:30:24. > :30:27.They may think they are clever by catching some headlines but they are
:30:28. > :30:38.not helping people who worry about knife crime, like I do. We work
:30:39. > :30:43.together... Just like the Coalition! This is a co-working
:30:44. > :30:47.space where different businesses share the same office. My time with
:30:48. > :30:53.the Deputy Prime Minister is drawing to a close. We haven't talked about
:30:54. > :30:56.the most important story of the week, that you were voted the best
:30:57. > :31:06.looking party leader and the most likely to be a good cook. Right,
:31:07. > :31:10.this is news to me and I can guarantee you that my scepticism of
:31:11. > :31:15.opinion polls has just been confirmed. Just as well because the
:31:16. > :31:21.more serious polls don't look great for him or his party. Goodbye, and
:31:22. > :31:28.thanks for the offer of a ride home!
:31:29. > :31:32.He is still walking. Malcolm Bruce joins us now. According to Lib Dem
:31:33. > :31:38.briefing documents, you are likely to choose -- lose a big chunk of
:31:39. > :31:43.your MEPs. If you lose a lot, what would that say about a party that
:31:44. > :31:48.boasts of its pro-Europe credentials? It would be
:31:49. > :31:56.disappointing because we have the most hard-working MEPs. The worry
:31:57. > :31:59.that we have is that people think the European Parliament is not
:32:00. > :32:08.important but it takes decisions that affect us. They would be
:32:09. > :32:12.disappointing for Britain as well as the Liberal Democrats. Isn't the
:32:13. > :32:18.problem that the more you bang on about your pro-European credentials,
:32:19. > :32:21.the more you slip in the polls? I do think so, we have two weeks to go
:32:22. > :32:34.and we are campaigning extremely hard. You are forced in the polls. I
:32:35. > :32:37.can tell you there are people out there who do believe Britain should
:32:38. > :32:43.stay in the EU and they are worried that other parties will take us out.
:32:44. > :32:49.The Liberal Democrats are clear, we want to stay in, we will work for
:32:50. > :32:53.reform and do it effectively. If you lose the Liberal Democrats,
:32:54. > :32:59.Britain's influence in Europe will be weakened. Your track record in
:33:00. > :33:04.Europe shows you have been spectacularly wrong again and again.
:33:05. > :33:10.In your 2009 manifesto you said the European Central Bank and the euro
:33:11. > :33:14.have been tried and tested over ten years providing a clear picture of
:33:15. > :33:20.the benefits of Eurozone membership and that proved to be nonsense. It
:33:21. > :33:25.was nonsense everywhere. Every developed bank in the world was
:33:26. > :33:31.tried and tested and failed. Europe may not be perfect, but the question
:33:32. > :33:37.people have to decide is if we are going to leave Europe and be
:33:38. > :33:43.isolated on RM, or use our influence to reform it from inside. We have
:33:44. > :33:50.allies, you work with them, that is something the Lib Dems do better
:33:51. > :33:55.than any other parties. Your 2004 manifesto, you claim that being
:33:56. > :34:00.outside the euro would lead to job losses and reduced prosperity. You
:34:01. > :34:06.were just plain wrong, weren't you? Yes, but the reason is that to some
:34:07. > :34:13.extent the euro did not observe any rules and regulations when it was
:34:14. > :34:18.set up. That is why we never recommended Britain should join at
:34:19. > :34:26.the outset because the criteria had not been met. In 2001 Nick Clegg was
:34:27. > :34:31.writing to the Financial Times... Your track record is important. He
:34:32. > :34:36.wrote that the Tisch monetary policy is not all it is cracked up to be.
:34:37. > :34:43.Britain would gain greater control over its affairs by joining the
:34:44. > :34:51.euro. How wrong can he be? We have always argued that the currency had
:34:52. > :34:55.to abide by strict criteria. It hasn't done so and that is one of
:34:56. > :35:02.the reasons it has failed. We recognise there is no future for
:35:03. > :35:09.Britain joining the euro and we are not advocating it. Lets put your
:35:10. > :35:15.2010 manifesto on the screen. I didn't say it was not our long-term
:35:16. > :35:19.interest. If Europe succeeds as an entity, if the euro becomes one of
:35:20. > :35:28.the world leading currencies, there will come a point when it may be
:35:29. > :35:34.justified. In the circumstances we are in the moment, there is no
:35:35. > :35:38.recommended timescale. Let's get this right. Despite the Eurozone
:35:39. > :35:44.crisis which has cost millions of jobs, countries that were teetering
:35:45. > :35:48.on the brink of bankruptcy, the Eurozone now facing stagnation and
:35:49. > :35:54.some countries on the brink of deflation, you still won't rule out
:35:55. > :35:58.Britain joining? We are ruling it out in the foreseeable future. You
:35:59. > :36:02.can miss the point that we are working as a coalition partner in
:36:03. > :36:07.government that has secured recovery for the UK, and working as Liberal
:36:08. > :36:12.Democrats in the parliament that have cut back the European budget in
:36:13. > :36:19.cooperation with others. What would the world look like if it were right
:36:20. > :36:25.for Britain to join the euro? You have 27 states at the moment, with
:36:26. > :36:29.too many countries still struggling to meet the criteria so until you
:36:30. > :36:33.have a strong and cohesive enough single Eurozone in which all the
:36:34. > :36:40.countries can meet that criteria, Britain is better off out. So a more
:36:41. > :36:46.centralised Eurozone, that is what you would like Britain to join? No,
:36:47. > :36:48.because it can only happen by consent. Any circumstances in which
:36:49. > :36:57.any further powers would be transferred from the UK to the EU,
:36:58. > :37:01.we would support a referendum. You have just said that for the Eurozone
:37:02. > :37:06.to work, it has to be more centralised and you said if that
:37:07. > :37:10.happens, that is what Britain would join. I didn't say that, I said it
:37:11. > :37:18.would require the consent of all member states to agree to the
:37:19. > :37:22.criteria. We certainly do not envisage joining in the foreseeable
:37:23. > :37:30.future. Since you are the proud party of in, why weren't you just
:37:31. > :37:35.give us a referendum on in or out? Because it has to have a context.
:37:36. > :37:40.What David Cameron is doing is dangerous because I think the major
:37:41. > :37:44.players like Britain and France are not keen on the idea of being
:37:45. > :37:48.bullied into reforms on the instigation of just one member state
:37:49. > :37:56.which is threatening possibility to withdraw. They will have to agree to
:37:57. > :38:01.rules... Just have it now. Do you want in or out? To have a referendum
:38:02. > :38:06.against no background is to put it out of context. We are in the middle
:38:07. > :38:15.of a crisis, a year away from the general election. We have made it
:38:16. > :38:20.clear... You said we are in the middle of the Eurozone crisis? So we
:38:21. > :38:25.are not in the middle of it? What's the middle? The reality is that the
:38:26. > :38:30.Western world has gone through a deep crisis. The UK is coming out of
:38:31. > :38:35.it, the Eurozone is coming out of it. Greece have been able to borrow
:38:36. > :38:40.on the markets in recent weeks which is a sign of success. It is in our
:38:41. > :38:43.interest is the Eurozone succeeds and recovers and we should be part
:38:44. > :38:49.of it but not necessarily on the same conditions as everyone else.
:38:50. > :38:52.The Liberal Democrats work with others to deliver Britain's
:38:53. > :38:59.interests and if they are not there, their interests will be undermined.
:39:00. > :40:12.I think a lot of people recognise say goodbye to viewers in Scotland
:40:13. > :40:15.I think a lot of people recognise that the best approach is to change
:40:16. > :40:19.our relationship with Europe, see it reformed and then give the choice to
:40:20. > :40:23.people as to whether we stay in Europe or we leave. That is a much
:40:24. > :40:26.better way to deal with the current situation because if you have an
:40:27. > :40:30.important relationship, the best thing to do is to try to fix it if
:40:31. > :40:34.it is going wrong, rather than immediately take the decision on
:40:35. > :40:37.whether to break it off. That is the Conservative view, for Labour they
:40:38. > :40:40.say there is an overwhelming economic case for staying in Europe.
:40:41. > :40:46.The Shadow Business Secretary was in Peterlee on Thursday, meeting young
:40:47. > :40:50.people. Unemployed young people. Labour's message is that leaving the
:40:51. > :40:53.EU will jeopardise jobs in the region. The debate is hotting up
:40:54. > :40:56.nicely. UKIP is making quite a lot of the pace. Jonathan Arnott,
:40:57. > :40:59.Theresa Villiers is right, isn't she? This is about relationship
:41:00. > :41:02.counselling with Europe, not about the option of divorce. The problem
:41:03. > :41:06.is that we have tried for 40 years to get reform of the European Union.
:41:07. > :41:11.It has failed. Reform requires 27 other countries all to agree. It
:41:12. > :41:14.isn't going to happen, it hasn't happened, it is time to be honest
:41:15. > :41:16.with the British people, say it is not working and accept one of two
:41:17. > :41:18.things. isn't going to happen, it hasn't
:41:19. > :41:21.happened, it is Either you take the approach that the UK should be part
:41:22. > :41:25.of Europe and accept everything, the euro and the whole shebang, or you
:41:26. > :41:28.take the UKIP position and say you want to be good neighbours with
:41:29. > :41:32.Europe, trade freely with them but not have European government. There
:41:33. > :41:37.has been some evidence your message has appealed to people. Some good
:41:38. > :41:43.pulling this week. There are three seats up for grabs in the North
:41:44. > :41:46.East. `` some good polling. What is your ambition? Looking at the
:41:47. > :41:50.opinion polls, we would be disappointed if we did not take one
:41:51. > :41:53.of those three seats. It is quite clear that across the North of
:41:54. > :41:57.England, the last few polls have showed UKIP on over 30% of the vote,
:41:58. > :42:01.one of those has had UKIP ahead of Labour. If that were true, we would
:42:02. > :42:05.take two seats in the North East. That would be the absolute ultimate
:42:06. > :42:08.dream for us, but we are certainly doing very well indeed. Just one
:42:09. > :42:12.week ago, you told me you were not seen much sign of UKIP support on
:42:13. > :42:15.the Labour doorsteps. Sticking to that? In fact, it is a kind of
:42:16. > :42:19.strange situation because we are looking at these polls which are
:42:20. > :42:22.coming out, but I think there is quite a lot of questioning about
:42:23. > :42:25.whether you can really take the polls seriously, because our
:42:26. > :42:28.experience on the doorstep is really quite different. We are getting a
:42:29. > :42:31.really warm response as Labour candidates on the doorstep. Every
:42:32. > :42:33.session, there are UKIP voters, definitely UKIP voters in the North
:42:34. > :42:38.East, they are particularly in marginal seat for Labour and people
:42:39. > :42:45.who are feeling hit and want to do a protest vote. `` marginal seats. Why
:42:46. > :42:49.then has your leaflets this week had a go at UKIP if you're not worried
:42:50. > :42:54.about them? We want to set out what UKIP is putting forward as a
:42:55. > :43:00.political party. That is important in terms of transparency. The UKIP
:43:01. > :43:04.agenda in terms of things which people hold dear in the North East
:43:05. > :43:07.needs to be exposed a little bit, like privatisation of the NHS, like
:43:08. > :43:11.scrapping workers' rights, like... That is not our policy. You're
:43:12. > :43:17.planning on scrapping maternity leave. No, we're not. It is in your
:43:18. > :43:26.manifesto, which I know you have denounced previously. It's not. They
:43:27. > :43:32.are in the manifesto. You are happy to put out leaflets on false UKIP
:43:33. > :43:36.policies. You are the party... Lower taxation for the rich. You are the
:43:37. > :43:39.party that privatised part of the NHS. These are policies which UKIP
:43:40. > :43:44.have defended in the past. Nigel Farage is on record in the European
:43:45. > :43:47.Parliament on this. We have a lot to discuss on this. The big issue for
:43:48. > :43:50.many people in these elections is immigration. Ten years ago this
:43:51. > :43:53.week, Poland joined the European Union, allowing its citizens to work
:43:54. > :43:56.and live in our region. This year Romanians and Bulgarians got the
:43:57. > :43:59.same rights. UKIP says that has lowered wages, increased the
:44:00. > :44:02.benefits bill, put services under strain. Not a view shared by many
:44:03. > :44:06.migrants, who say they are paying their taxes and doing the jobs
:44:07. > :44:12.sometimes that nobody else wants to do. We invited a UKIP candidate to
:44:13. > :44:15.meet with them. Meet Gergana Ivanova. She is a
:44:16. > :44:19.Bulgarian working in an Indian restaurant in Newcastle. It is that
:44:20. > :44:21.kind of world these days. She is also a journalism student at
:44:22. > :44:25.Sunderland University. After her studies she wants to stay in the UK.
:44:26. > :44:28.It is definitely more secure. About everything. I don't mean the free
:44:29. > :44:38.treatments, I don't mean the benefits. I mean that if you want to
:44:39. > :44:41.work, you can go out and find a job. But some think too many migrants
:44:42. > :44:44.have arrived here in the last decade, including this man, UKIP
:44:45. > :44:48.European candidate Richard Elvin, so we have invited him to meet Gergana,
:44:49. > :44:50.tell her why and explain posters like this. Our services currently
:44:51. > :44:54.can't cope, our schools, our hospitals, our housing and we feel
:44:55. > :45:02.the time has come to have a moratorium on immigration until we
:45:03. > :45:10.can put our house in order. Everyone says the migrants steal English
:45:11. > :45:14.people's jobs. We don't steal someone's job if we don't deserve
:45:15. > :45:17.it. I don't think that we infer that they steal jobs. When you have a
:45:18. > :45:21.massive oversupply of labour, it forces down the pay rates. That is
:45:22. > :45:24.one of the things we are very concerned about, it has driven down
:45:25. > :45:28.living standards. For the moment, the doors remain open to people like
:45:29. > :45:32.this man, a teacher in Romania who is working as a carer in an old
:45:33. > :45:36.people's home in Middlesbrough. But he says he is not depriving anyone
:45:37. > :45:39.of a job. In my care home, maybe more than 80% of carers are
:45:40. > :45:50.foreigners, Romanian, Thai, Chinese, Polish.
:45:51. > :45:57.It is not my, you know, my right to say this, but I think it is the
:45:58. > :46:01.truth, for me it is the truth: English people don't want these
:46:02. > :46:05.jobs. Ileana is also Romanian. She has been here 20 years. She helps
:46:06. > :46:12.new arrivals like this man find his feet. She says most migrants are
:46:13. > :46:16.desperate to work. Although he is being paid properly, she admits some
:46:17. > :46:20.may not be. I am very honest here. I know families who are working from
:46:21. > :46:24.nine o'clock in the morning until five o'clock or six o'clock for ?17
:46:25. > :46:28.per day and are still happy to be able to put food on the table
:46:29. > :46:30.because a lot of them don't have knowledge what is the minimum wage
:46:31. > :46:38.here, because of the language barrier. So they are prepared to
:46:39. > :46:41.take the jobs no matter what. Some who have been here longer might soon
:46:42. > :46:45.become employers themselves. Edyta and Margaret arrived from Poland
:46:46. > :46:49.seven years ago. Now they don't just work in this Middlesbrough cafe `
:46:50. > :46:55.they own it. We settled here very well. She is more English than
:46:56. > :46:59.Polish now. She corrects my English all the time. We bought a house
:47:00. > :47:08.here, we have made lots of friends. And now here we are, we have got our
:47:09. > :47:12.own business. The Polish community is one community who bring to your
:47:13. > :47:18.budget about 30% money above than they got from the benefits. So they
:47:19. > :47:29.pay their taxes, they have worked, so we can be proud of ourselves.
:47:30. > :47:32.Some are not convinced. This man is a UKIP voter from County Durham. He
:47:33. > :47:36.is concerned migration is stretching the services his taxes have funded.
:47:37. > :47:39.I have had very little time off work ever since I left school, I have
:47:40. > :47:42.been virtually fully employed all the way through, I have paid taxes
:47:43. > :47:52.and national insurance and everything. Other people who didn't
:47:53. > :47:56.pay into the system come in and get a free ride. I have got nothing
:47:57. > :47:59.against Romanian people or Bulgarian people. What I am saying is, we
:48:00. > :48:02.can't cope with the numbers. But just how large are those numbers?
:48:03. > :48:06.The latest figures available date from December 2012 and they suggest
:48:07. > :48:09.that at that point there were around 12,000 people from Eastern Europe
:48:10. > :48:12.living in the North East. That is less than half of one percent of the
:48:13. > :48:16.region's population. But whatever the size of that migrant community,
:48:17. > :48:18.they appear to have become a big issue in this month's European
:48:19. > :48:22.elections. Let's turn to our aspiring MEPs. How
:48:23. > :48:27.would you answer the UKIP charge that migration has lowered wages and
:48:28. > :48:30.put a strain on services? I think there is a lot of misinformation
:48:31. > :48:34.around the debate around immigration. I think nationally, not
:48:35. > :48:37.just regionally, nationally we need to have a more measured discussion
:48:38. > :48:45.about immigration and how we deal with our needs. Are they completely
:48:46. > :48:47.wrong? There is a lot of scaremongering, which feeds people's
:48:48. > :48:50.concerns, especially in a period... You heard there descriptions of
:48:51. > :48:56.Romanians working for below the minimal wage in the black market.
:48:57. > :48:59.Absolutely. That is where Labour is really focused on. We are really
:49:00. > :49:03.putting forward a political agenda which is about tackling the
:49:04. > :49:06.exploitation. Because that is abuse by employers of abusing the rights
:49:07. > :49:10.that those workers have the right to, and that certainly pulls down
:49:11. > :49:14.wages for other people. We need to enforce the minimum wage much more,
:49:15. > :49:18.that means we need more inspections, it means we need investment in
:49:19. > :49:21.infrastructure. But you are happy for people to come? We need better
:49:22. > :49:29.penalties for employers who do not pay or do not treat workers as they
:49:30. > :49:34.should. According to the law. We also need to... There are lots of
:49:35. > :49:38.issues, lots of these issues are actually national policy issues that
:49:39. > :49:43.have to be dealt with by government. We have to wait until the general
:49:44. > :49:49.election. I am going to move on. I am out of time. Jonathan Barnett,
:49:50. > :49:52.the truth is that as we saw, a lot of people in Eastern Europe are here
:49:53. > :49:57.to pay taxes and work and make a good light `` make a good life for
:49:58. > :50:02.themselves. They are contributing. In some way that is true. Research
:50:03. > :50:07.shows that for everyone and people that come into the country, of
:50:08. > :50:14.working age, it is the equivalent of 23 jobs lost in the UK as a result.
:50:15. > :50:17.There are issues there. I think what you also find is that when you have
:50:18. > :50:21.got a massive oversupply of people coming in, prepared to go jobs at
:50:22. > :50:26.minimal wage or sometimes even below, that oversupply means that it
:50:27. > :50:33.is very difficult to find a job at minimum wage. What about that man in
:50:34. > :50:37.the BT. He said in his experience British people don't want to do the
:50:38. > :50:42.job he is doing. That is a rather cynical approach to take. That is
:50:43. > :50:47.his opinion. Our experiences on the doorstep. Seeing people out of work,
:50:48. > :50:50.they are desperate to get any job they can find, they want to work.
:50:51. > :50:55.The idea that British people do not want to work is really doing the
:50:56. > :50:58.British people down anyway. We should take a much more positive
:50:59. > :51:07.approach than that. We should reward hard work. You have said that
:51:08. > :51:13.UKIP's poster campaign is part of their, in your view it is racist. I
:51:14. > :51:22.have never said that. No Labour had implied that it is inflammatory. It
:51:23. > :51:26.is scaremongering. Who is right? There is a fear factor. UKIP are
:51:27. > :51:31.playing on the politics of fear. The figures for the north`east. We have
:51:32. > :51:35.a foreign`born population of 1.7%. That includes the 0.5% of eastern
:51:36. > :51:40.Europeans. But our unemployment levels are five `` are far higher.
:51:41. > :51:45.It is not about I grant workers taking jobs from local workers. It
:51:46. > :51:50.is about not enough jobs in the north`east economy. The focus should
:51:51. > :51:55.be jobs in the economy. You might describe yourself `` you might not
:51:56. > :51:58.describe yourself as the races but it's saying that if wages are low,
:51:59. > :52:04.it is deadly migration, if services are not good, it is migration, its
:52:05. > :52:08.gear groups `` its gear mongers a community and attract racist. The
:52:09. > :52:12.problem is we have unlimited immigration from Europe. And
:52:13. > :52:18.elsewhere. You said it is costing jobs. What we should have is a
:52:19. > :52:21.system of work permits. Those people who have skills and will genuinely
:52:22. > :52:27.benefit the UK economy, who are taking jobs in areas where frankly
:52:28. > :52:30.we need the skills, those should be people who are allied to coming so
:52:31. > :52:34.we should have a clear policy that does not discriminate on whether you
:52:35. > :52:39.are from Europe not from Europe. Very briefly. The key thing to
:52:40. > :52:46.remember is that this is about a two Way St. There are 2 million Britons
:52:47. > :52:49.working in the rest of Europe are living retired or studying in the
:52:50. > :52:58.rest of Europe. There are about 2 million Europeans living and
:52:59. > :53:02.working... We have got to move on. We will never get to the truth of
:53:03. > :53:08.the figures. I am going to move on. Thank you. A new business park, a
:53:09. > :53:12.low carbon enterprise zone and a fund that helps new firms get going
:53:13. > :53:18.in Bury. Three of many projects paid for in part by European money. In
:53:19. > :53:21.the north`east, we have done well in the past and EU structural funds but
:53:22. > :53:28.with mirror poorer countries joining, we `` will we get a big
:53:29. > :53:30.share in the future? I met with the policy commissioner and asked him
:53:31. > :53:36.what he thought the impact of such spending had been in the region. If
:53:37. > :53:41.I look at the figure of the north`east, they must benefit
:53:42. > :53:45.because we have created 11,000 jobs and safeguarded more than 11,000
:53:46. > :53:52.jobs and I think we have assisted more than 30,000 `` 13,000 SMEs.
:53:53. > :53:55.What has been done in the north`east in the past is exactly what we would
:53:56. > :54:02.like to do and see all over Europe, to promote and push the economy to
:54:03. > :54:06.safeguard jobs. Argument of people like the UK Independence Party is
:54:07. > :54:08.that Britain puts millions, and that of millions of pounds into the
:54:09. > :54:13.European Union, some of that comes back to the north`east. If Britain
:54:14. > :54:16.came out of the European Union, it could keep that money and spend it
:54:17. > :54:23.anyway without patting it through a bunch of Eurocrats in Brussels. I
:54:24. > :54:26.would say the UKIP representative should ask the representatives of
:54:27. > :54:29.the regions. I know from the representatives of the regions
:54:30. > :54:33.around Europe that they are in favour of this kind of policy
:54:34. > :54:40.because this is a guarantee for them to receive money for the regional
:54:41. > :54:45.development. The additional value is that there is money provided for
:54:46. > :54:47.seven years. Which is completely different from a national budget
:54:48. > :54:52.which is usually for one, in some countries two years. Another problem
:54:53. > :54:55.is the EU is getting larger, more countries coming in from eastern
:54:56. > :54:58.Europe that are not as rich. That could lead to less money for the
:54:59. > :55:07.north`east, potentially in the future. The main task of EU policy
:55:08. > :55:11.is to reduce the disparity between regions but additional members in
:55:12. > :55:15.particular from the former communist countries, a huge market
:55:16. > :55:20.opportunity, for instance, for Britain and its companies because
:55:21. > :55:25.these are the emerging markets of Europe. Here we have significant
:55:26. > :55:29.increases of welfare level, people can consume more if there is
:55:30. > :55:35.adequate support and in that respect, Britain and British
:55:36. > :55:38.companies and British jobs are pushed by this kind of development
:55:39. > :55:44.and this is a market opportunity we should take into account also.
:55:45. > :55:47.Britain has some decisions to make in the future, there may be a
:55:48. > :55:53.referendum on whether to stay in the EU. You Do believe that a region
:55:54. > :55:56.like the north`east, a poorer region might suffer more if the UK lost the
:55:57. > :56:01.European Union perhaps than wealthier regions? If the UK would
:56:02. > :56:05.leave, it would leave also the single market. This is something
:56:06. > :56:10.which should be taken into account and this is something which has to
:56:11. > :56:20.be discussed in the British public and to balance the pros and cons and
:56:21. > :56:23.the British people have to decide. The consequences, there are a lot of
:56:24. > :56:32.consequences which would affect every part of the UK and I would say
:56:33. > :56:36.that the less developed even more than probably the more developed
:56:37. > :56:40.regions. The less`developed regions should have an interest to be part
:56:41. > :56:46.of Europe because only if you are in a big family, you can benefit from
:56:47. > :56:49.the strength of a big family. Jonathan Arnett, ?500 million came
:56:50. > :56:54.to the north`east from the EU in the last six years, another 600 Liam
:56:55. > :56:58.Payne coming in the next six years. He said, creating jobs. He would
:56:59. > :57:01.throw all that away. It is money that comes back from what we spend
:57:02. > :57:06.on the EU in the first place. Would you spend ?20 to get a ?10 Marks
:57:07. > :57:13.Spencer 's voter? The European Union expected to be grateful for the ?10
:57:14. > :57:15.voucher! It is ridiculous. This is money that is guaranteed for seven
:57:16. > :57:20.years. You send UKIP would deliver that money to the north`east,
:57:21. > :57:26.guaranteed for seven years? That doesn't make much difference whether
:57:27. > :57:28.it is seven years or five years. Is a key UKIP commitment that our share
:57:29. > :57:32.of that money will come to the north`east to help the north`east
:57:33. > :57:38.economy? That is what we're getting from the EU. UKIP offering that? We
:57:39. > :57:41.should be helping the regions. There is not a specific figure set at the
:57:42. > :57:45.moment but we should make sure that project that need to be funded are
:57:46. > :57:47.funded. Not all European Union funding is needed anyway because the
:57:48. > :57:54.money is going on things that they tell us how we must spend it. Your
:57:55. > :57:57.party got into government and good control the pot of money, you could
:57:58. > :58:02.do a lot of good in the north`east? We certainly could. Regional
:58:03. > :58:11.economic devolution is part of the Labour agenda. The EU... It is only
:58:12. > :58:17.partly paid back to us? The EU firms are not determined, the spending of
:58:18. > :58:20.those EU funds is not determined by Brussels. Those are determined
:58:21. > :58:26.locally. Currently the next seven years, like you said, it is actually
:58:27. > :58:31.?660 million for the north`east and the Tees Valley. That will be
:58:32. > :58:37.decided by local business together with other actors had that money is
:58:38. > :58:40.spent best in the region. The problem is, as we pointed out to the
:58:41. > :58:44.Commissioner, that is going to dwindle as time goes on because a
:58:45. > :58:46.lot of money is going to be funding eastern European infrastructure
:58:47. > :58:52.rather than north`east infrastructure. There are funds we
:58:53. > :58:56.get from the structural funds. Other funds we get as the region as well
:58:57. > :58:59.from the Common agricultural policy, for example, which are about
:59:00. > :59:03.investigation in the role of the economy, there are funds which come
:59:04. > :59:06.from the research budget which go into our universities and
:59:07. > :59:09.innovation. The key thing is that switching all of that money through
:59:10. > :59:12.Westminster is very dangerous for the north`east because we have seen
:59:13. > :59:17.what has happened with funding through this government. 's regional
:59:18. > :59:21.funds are a win`win in that as the Commissioner said, we get some money
:59:22. > :59:25.but they also develop Eastern European economies for British
:59:26. > :59:28.businesses. I do not see that developing economies in Eastern
:59:29. > :59:32.Europe is what UK taxpayers' money should be spent on. I don't think
:59:33. > :59:39.that is an efficient use of your taxes or my taxes. Our taxi should
:59:40. > :59:44.be used generally speaking to help people directly in the UK. `` our
:59:45. > :59:47.taxes. Where there is a case for helping foreign countries, things
:59:48. > :59:51.like natural disasters, that is the sort of thing foreign aid should be
:59:52. > :59:56.for, not to European countries. We will have to leave it there. Next
:59:57. > :59:58.week we will have Conservative and Liberal Democrat candidate in the
:59:59. > :00:03.studio and we will be talking to the Green Party. A parties contesting
:00:04. > :00:08.the elections in the north`east were three seats are up for grabs. The
:00:09. > :00:12.Northwest has fewer than 11 parties fighting it out for their eight
:00:13. > :00:14.parliament seats. You can see a full list of candidates on the BBC
:00:15. > :00:20.politics website. The details are on the screen. We may be concentrating
:00:21. > :00:22.on European matters but there has been plenty of other things going
:00:23. > :00:25.on. Including a victory for campaigners trying to make a Cumbria
:00:26. > :00:37.railway station accessible to disabled people. Here is the rest of
:00:38. > :00:44.the week's news in 60 seconds. Cumbrian MP Rory Stewart's four`year
:00:45. > :00:47.campaign to get a lift in so that is railway station in Penrith has ended
:00:48. > :00:50.in successful stop the Department for Transport is to include the work
:00:51. > :00:56.initially just round of funding to ensure access to all platforms from
:00:57. > :01:05.disabled and elderly passengers. `` for disabled and elderly passengers.
:01:06. > :01:10.One MP told a Westminster Hall debate he still had concerns about
:01:11. > :01:17.it. Their status and their prestige, I don't want that to be undermined
:01:18. > :01:19.by unlicensed taxes and the consequences of some of the things
:01:20. > :01:26.potentially that could happen if this ill thought through legislation
:01:27. > :01:30.is pushed through Parliament. Co Durham MP has called for action to
:01:31. > :01:33.save the Durham miners Gayla. A long`term future of the event has
:01:34. > :01:40.been put at risk after the Durham miners Association was landed with a
:01:41. > :01:44.?2 million legal bill. That is about it from us. We are
:01:45. > :01:47.back same time and place next week with the second of our European
:01:48. > :01:50.specials, which includes a look at some of the smaller parties will
:01:51. > :01:53.been to cause an upset. More information on what is going on in
:01:54. > :01:59.the European elections, you can go to my blog. If you live on Teessider
:02:00. > :02:03.want to hear the main parties argued out,
:02:04. > :02:07.on our website. That is all we have got time for this week. Next week,
:02:08. > :02:15.London's local elections. Welcome back. Now, the Government is
:02:16. > :02:19.not very good at predicting the future. That's according to a report
:02:20. > :02:21.from a committee of MPs this morning who say that its Horizon Scanning
:02:22. > :02:23.programme that's supposed to identify potential threats, risks,
:02:24. > :02:29.emerging issues and opportunities isn't much good at reading the tea
:02:30. > :02:33.leaves. But can it really be any worse than our panel? Here they are
:02:34. > :02:43.predicting the future of then culture secretary Maria Miller
:02:44. > :02:47.before Easter. Can she survive? I'm getting out of
:02:48. > :02:53.the prediction game after I said Nick Clegg would win the debates.
:02:54. > :02:58.But I almost think she might. If there is a big event that moves this
:02:59. > :03:05.off the front pages. David Cameron will want to keep Maria Miller until
:03:06. > :03:11.at least his summary shuffle. I think they will get rid of her. I
:03:12. > :03:17.think they will do the decent thing after exhausting all other options.
:03:18. > :03:25.Maria Miller resigned a few days later of course! The best and the
:03:26. > :03:29.brightest, when did that slip in? This week it will be exactly a year
:03:30. > :03:37.until the General Election, so what better time to get our panel to gaze
:03:38. > :03:42.into their crystal balls again. What's the outcome of the election
:03:43. > :03:50.in 2015? I'm going to go with the polls and say Ed Miliband as the
:03:51. > :03:55.Prime Minister. But the polls are only a snapshot of opinion now, you
:03:56. > :04:03.think they will be the same in a year? No, I think they will narrow.
:04:04. > :04:07.I think UKIP's vote share will fall. I think they are currently coasting
:04:08. > :04:15.on a high and that will tailor way so they won't take as many votes off
:04:16. > :04:22.the Tories. Labour with a majority or is the largest party. Another
:04:23. > :04:29.liberal Conservative coalition, and I say that because he is already in
:04:30. > :04:34.touching distance of Labour. I don't think UKIP will get 15, maybe half
:04:35. > :04:38.of that, and most of the votes they lose will either not vote at all go
:04:39. > :04:43.to the Tories and that should be enough to be the biggest party in a
:04:44. > :04:49.hung parliament I don't envisage a Tory majority. I am also going to go
:04:50. > :04:53.with the polls. For Ed Miliband to be hoping to win at this stage, he
:04:54. > :05:01.has got to be way ahead in the polls. Labour needs to be much
:05:02. > :05:05.further ahead if he is going to win so David Cameron, probably the
:05:06. > :05:09.leader of the largest party. Last time after the election David
:05:10. > :05:13.Cameron went to the 1922 committee and announced he was Prime Minister
:05:14. > :05:17.as head of the Coalition. He has agreed this time he will consult
:05:18. > :05:22.them and it will be much more difficult for him to get a
:05:23. > :05:29.coalition. People at home have now concluded there will be a Liberal
:05:30. > :05:33.Democrat landslide! Are we going to have debates? Yes, probably further
:05:34. > :05:41.away from polling day then last time. That is the Liberal Democrat
:05:42. > :05:46.point, isn't it? Yes, it sucks all the life out of the campaign, so the
:05:47. > :05:49.last six weeks will be left to traditional campaigning. What did
:05:50. > :05:59.you make of this in the Sunday Times this morning, this two, three, five
:06:00. > :06:07.formula. There should be a Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg debate, then
:06:08. > :06:17.there should be another one with them and UKIP and the Greens. It
:06:18. > :06:22.might be testing the patience of the nation to tune into all of those. If
:06:23. > :06:27.you're going to say Nigel Farage should be there, the Green party
:06:28. > :06:33.should be too. They know that as soon as you put them on a podium
:06:34. > :06:38.next to them, he looks like he has equal stature and that is a problem.
:06:39. > :06:43.David Cameron does not want the debates to happen on the way they
:06:44. > :06:48.happened last time. It is generally regarded, Lynton Crosby believes
:06:49. > :06:54.they were a disaster for David Cameron because they allowed Nick
:06:55. > :06:59.Clegg to be the fresh person. He knows he cannot say no to them so
:07:00. > :07:03.the moment you see David Cameron suggesting that Caroline Lucas
:07:04. > :07:07.should be in the debate, you know he is not serious. What he will try to
:07:08. > :07:11.do is have more debates, have them outside the main part of the general
:07:12. > :07:15.election so that it doesn't dominate. The problem the David
:07:16. > :07:22.Cameron is that the campaign will be much longer. It is a five-week
:07:23. > :07:27.campaign so it is quite difficult for him to say we will only have one
:07:28. > :07:30.debate in that campaign. I think smother it with love, hopefully it
:07:31. > :07:36.will go to the courts for him and hopefully they will never happen and
:07:37. > :07:40.he will be delighted. The European election and the local elections are
:07:41. > :07:45.coming up. The three mainstream parties are saying it is a flash in
:07:46. > :07:51.the pan, they don't really matter and so on, but if UKIP comes a
:07:52. > :07:56.strong first, if Labour comes a poor second and the Tories come a poor
:07:57. > :08:03.third, it will have consequences for all three, and the Lib Dems come
:08:04. > :08:06.forth or even fish. It will have consequences and not just in the
:08:07. > :08:09.media but on the ground. One of the big stories is what will happen to
:08:10. > :08:18.the Lib Dems, they face losing all of their MEPs. A good result for
:08:19. > :08:22.them is lit -- in the local elections is losing 250 councillors.
:08:23. > :08:29.These are the most interesting elections we have had for some
:08:30. > :08:32.time. Are we heading for a Nick Clegg summer leadership crisis? I
:08:33. > :08:37.think we are heading towards reversing the clock back to where we
:08:38. > :08:42.were before the Eastleigh by-election. That quiet and things
:08:43. > :08:47.down for Nick Clegg. If they lose all their MEPs, and there is a real
:08:48. > :08:52.chance they will, Vince Cable will be out on manoeuvres because age is
:08:53. > :08:59.not on his side. If he can say Nick Clegg is a loser and a failure, he
:09:00. > :09:14.will be back. Will the Tories go into headless chicken mode if they
:09:15. > :09:21.come third? Yes, if UKIP come first there will not be as much panic as
:09:22. > :09:26.if Labour come first. Is Labour comes a poor second, will there be
:09:27. > :09:31.some pressure on Ed Miliband to reopen his attitude to the
:09:32. > :09:35.referendum? I don't think so and my colleague was talking to Labour
:09:36. > :09:39.sources who said he is absolutely not going to. That is something you
:09:40. > :09:44.can say definitely about him, he decides on a course and he sticks to
:09:45. > :09:49.it. There is one potential upside for David Cameron in a really bad
:09:50. > :09:53.Conservative results, it could strengthen his hand in the
:09:54. > :09:57.renegotiations of Britain's EU membership because he doesn't even
:09:58. > :10:05.need to say to Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande it is there. David
:10:06. > :10:10.Cameron hasn't just been fighting for his party into the local
:10:11. > :10:12.elections. He also got his knuckles wrapped by the Speaker, John Bercow,
:10:13. > :10:20.at Prime Minister's Question Time, for talking for too long. Take a
:10:21. > :10:25.look at this. There is a better future ahead of us but we must not
:10:26. > :10:30.go backward to the policies that put us in this mess in the first place.
:10:31. > :10:48.I don't know what they are paying him, Mr Speaker. Order, order. I
:10:49. > :10:51.haven't finished! In response to that question, the Prime Minister
:10:52. > :10:59.has finished and he can take it from me that he has finished. I can't
:11:00. > :11:05.remember a speaker ever speaking to a Prime Minister like that. Clearly
:11:06. > :11:10.in that case, John Bercow crossed a line. It is Prime Minister 's
:11:11. > :11:15.questions, he is entitled to answer the questions. There is really bad
:11:16. > :11:21.blood between those two, going back a long way. They hate each other and
:11:22. > :11:27.the worrying thing about that was the look of triumphalism on the
:11:28. > :11:30.speaker's face afterwards. He is a remarkable, revolutionary speaker
:11:31. > :11:35.who has made the House of Commons more relevant, he is holding the
:11:36. > :11:41.executive to account, but that look on his face showed he had crossed
:11:42. > :11:44.the line. Does he survive after the next election? He has improved the
:11:45. > :11:51.importance of the Commons, is that enough to keep him in the Speaker 's
:11:52. > :11:57.chair? The most public bit of the Commons is still the Prime Minister
:11:58. > :12:01.'s questions, and we can conclude that John Bercow's interventions
:12:02. > :12:08.take more time than any delays he complains about so I wouldn't be
:12:09. > :12:16.surprised if, in a few years' time, someone else replaces him. He is
:12:17. > :12:22.quite popular with Labour, is he not? Yes, he is married to a Labour
:12:23. > :12:27.activist and is notably sympathetic to Labour but I think this is a
:12:28. > :12:32.difficult situation. David Cameron also overstepped the line. As soon
:12:33. > :12:38.as the speaker says order, the idea is that the House was to order and
:12:39. > :12:44.David Cameron pushed him. They are both trying to score points off each
:12:45. > :12:51.other. We cover Prime Minister 's questions every week on the daily
:12:52. > :12:56.politics, and there is a danger that he sees it as an opportunity to do
:12:57. > :13:00.some grandstanding. You slightly sends his vanity gets the better of
:13:01. > :13:05.him. It is supposed to be Prime Minister 's questions. At the end of
:13:06. > :13:10.that session, the Speaker read out a statement from the Chief clerk, and
:13:11. > :13:15.immensely respected figure, saying he is taking early retirement. It is
:13:16. > :13:19.pretty clear that the reason he has decided to go early is because he is
:13:20. > :13:22.finding it tricky to maintain a cordial relationship with the
:13:23. > :13:27.speaker, and the speaker might want to think about his man management
:13:28. > :13:30.skills. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC
:13:31. > :13:34.Two at lunchtime from Tuesday onwards. Remember, it is a bank
:13:35. > :13:37.holiday tomorrow. I'll be back here at 11am next week. Remember - if
:13:38. > :13:42.it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.