:00:37. > :00:41.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:42. > :00:46.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:47. > :00:52.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:53. > :00:56.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live
:00:57. > :01:00.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:01. > :01:03.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:04. > :01:13.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:14. > :01:15.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:16. > :01:20.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:21. > :01:23.a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:24. > :01:26.In the North East and Cumbrha: The business view on
:01:27. > :01:28.Scottish independence from this side of the border.
:01:29. > :01:34.And just what is going wrong at the North East Ambulance Servicd?
:01:35. > :01:42.Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?
:01:43. > :01:45.And with me our panel of top political journalists,
:01:46. > :01:48.who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee
:01:49. > :01:50.and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme
:01:51. > :01:55.This morning's political news is dominated
:01:56. > :01:58.by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and
:01:59. > :02:02.The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior
:02:03. > :02:04.Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling
:02:05. > :02:11.The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of
:02:12. > :02:15.investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham
:02:16. > :02:18.where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken
:02:19. > :02:25.Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office
:02:26. > :02:27.was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.
:02:28. > :02:32.He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.
:02:33. > :02:33.In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,
:02:34. > :02:36."why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people
:02:37. > :02:43.Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the
:02:44. > :02:50.An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.
:02:51. > :02:53.Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's
:02:54. > :02:58.Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning
:02:59. > :03:04.this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.
:03:05. > :03:06.There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,
:03:07. > :03:09.which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.
:03:10. > :03:11.There will be discipline in the Government.
:03:12. > :03:17.The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.
:03:18. > :03:23.The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s
:03:24. > :03:42.put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.
:03:43. > :03:52.Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she
:03:53. > :03:59.has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael
:04:00. > :04:06.Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during
:04:07. > :04:12.13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an
:04:13. > :04:22.act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website
:04:23. > :04:25.and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of
:04:26. > :04:31.conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a
:04:32. > :04:37.leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a
:04:38. > :04:42.vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In
:04:43. > :04:48.the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.
:04:49. > :04:53.She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is
:04:54. > :04:58.interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse
:04:59. > :05:03.differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is
:05:04. > :05:09.tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.
:05:10. > :05:15.Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the
:05:16. > :05:21.politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is
:05:22. > :05:25.deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but
:05:26. > :05:30.replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in
:05:31. > :05:35.ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that
:05:36. > :05:38.ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the
:05:39. > :05:44.Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with
:05:45. > :05:49.Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick
:05:50. > :05:55.Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and
:05:56. > :06:03.criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the
:06:04. > :06:12.Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is
:06:13. > :06:17.fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What
:06:18. > :06:24.separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The
:06:25. > :06:28.view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic
:06:29. > :06:34.extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is
:06:35. > :06:39.criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour
:06:40. > :06:43.government introduced to do with the previous Labour government
:06:44. > :06:49.introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people
:06:50. > :06:54.and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous
:06:55. > :06:56.home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in
:06:57. > :07:02.the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has
:07:03. > :07:07.used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the
:07:08. > :07:11.swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed
:07:12. > :07:18.those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove
:07:19. > :07:23.would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech
:07:24. > :07:26.the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11
:07:27. > :07:28.when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists
:07:29. > :07:44.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:45. > :07:50.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:51. > :07:53.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:54. > :08:03.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:04. > :08:08.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:09. > :08:11.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:12. > :08:14.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:15. > :08:21.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:22. > :08:25.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:26. > :08:29.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:30. > :08:34.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:35. > :08:38.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:39. > :08:43.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:44. > :08:47.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:48. > :08:51.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:52. > :09:02.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:03. > :09:06.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:07. > :09:11.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:12. > :09:15.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:16. > :09:20.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:21. > :09:24.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:25. > :09:31.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:32. > :09:36.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:37. > :09:41.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:42. > :09:48.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:49. > :09:54.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling
:09:55. > :09:58.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:09:59. > :10:02.equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:03. > :10:07.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:08. > :10:13.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:14. > :10:19.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:20. > :10:24.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:25. > :10:30.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:31. > :10:35.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:36. > :10:40.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:41. > :10:47.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:48. > :10:51.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:52. > :10:54.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:55. > :10:58.Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools
:10:59. > :11:01.were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They
:11:02. > :11:06.were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an
:11:07. > :11:10.academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within
:11:11. > :11:14.Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school
:11:15. > :11:23.standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we
:11:24. > :11:30.get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking
:11:31. > :11:35.to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme
:11:36. > :11:43.which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and
:11:44. > :11:51.fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a
:11:52. > :11:56.desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an
:11:57. > :12:08.increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr
:12:09. > :12:17.Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for
:12:18. > :12:22.gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in
:12:23. > :12:26.since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We
:12:27. > :12:34.note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected
:12:35. > :12:41.head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and
:12:42. > :12:44.what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about
:12:45. > :12:48.fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of
:12:49. > :12:55.schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You
:12:56. > :13:04.mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence
:13:05. > :13:08.for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group
:13:09. > :13:14.dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about
:13:15. > :13:18.schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in
:13:19. > :13:25.Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of
:13:26. > :13:29.multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic
:13:30. > :13:32.education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this
:13:33. > :13:37.morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,
:13:38. > :13:48.the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.
:13:49. > :13:51.In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools
:13:52. > :13:57.and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed
:13:58. > :14:01.this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and
:14:02. > :14:06.this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you
:14:07. > :14:10.fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get
:14:11. > :14:18.together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There
:14:19. > :14:22.are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city
:14:23. > :14:27.council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning
:14:28. > :14:31.have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in
:14:32. > :14:35.schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have
:14:36. > :14:40.a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for
:14:41. > :14:43.four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to
:14:44. > :14:48.account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils
:14:49. > :14:52.in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young
:14:53. > :14:57.people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do
:14:58. > :15:04.you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that
:15:05. > :15:11.Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was
:15:12. > :15:16.building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We
:15:17. > :15:19.have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard
:15:20. > :15:24.Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate
:15:25. > :15:28.about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,
:15:29. > :15:36.the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do
:15:37. > :15:38.to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must
:15:39. > :15:47.with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on
:15:48. > :15:50.stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the
:15:51. > :15:53.most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -
:15:54. > :15:56.from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described
:15:57. > :16:03.Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the
:16:04. > :16:06.problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor
:16:07. > :16:09.Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that
:16:10. > :16:12.Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7
:16:13. > :16:22.summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people
:16:23. > :16:26.running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change
:16:27. > :16:31.and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads
:16:32. > :16:35.of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what
:16:36. > :16:40.I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed
:16:41. > :16:43.in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering
:16:44. > :16:47.that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away
:16:48. > :16:49.from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.
:16:50. > :16:52.We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is
:16:53. > :16:55.a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.
:16:56. > :17:00.He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.
:17:01. > :17:04.And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin
:17:05. > :17:07.Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives
:17:08. > :17:15.and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.
:17:16. > :17:23.The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new
:17:24. > :17:30.Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out
:17:31. > :17:36.gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to
:17:37. > :17:43.have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a
:17:44. > :17:47.high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next
:17:48. > :17:53.three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the
:17:54. > :17:57.president of the European Council after the proposal of the European
:17:58. > :18:02.Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in
:18:03. > :18:10.the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr
:18:11. > :18:14.Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going
:18:15. > :18:22.to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us
:18:23. > :18:27.one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine
:18:28. > :18:33.Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have
:18:34. > :18:40.a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need
:18:41. > :18:45.radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave
:18:46. > :18:50.us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in
:18:51. > :18:54.public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks
:18:55. > :18:59.campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the
:19:00. > :19:02.European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent
:19:03. > :19:06.a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status
:19:07. > :19:13.quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?
:19:14. > :19:23.First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks
:19:24. > :19:29.against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man
:19:30. > :19:35.who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro
:19:36. > :19:38.group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the
:19:39. > :19:42.financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible
:19:43. > :19:47.financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who
:19:48. > :19:52.works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in
:19:53. > :19:57.Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But
:19:58. > :20:01.we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of
:20:02. > :20:05.this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the
:20:06. > :20:09.winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs
:20:10. > :20:14.LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority
:20:15. > :20:21.in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It
:20:22. > :20:28.is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament
:20:29. > :20:32.has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by
:20:33. > :20:33.majority in the light of the European elections after
:20:34. > :20:38.consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a
:20:39. > :20:45.candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a
:20:46. > :20:48.majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the
:20:49. > :20:52.Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.
:20:53. > :20:57.I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European
:20:58. > :21:01.elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the
:21:02. > :21:05.elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats
:21:06. > :21:09.in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking
:21:10. > :21:12.part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the
:21:13. > :21:17.United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German
:21:18. > :21:24.socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a
:21:25. > :21:27.nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with
:21:28. > :21:31.hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a
:21:32. > :21:33.democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to
:21:34. > :21:51.take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if
:21:52. > :21:54.I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of
:21:55. > :22:03.the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to
:22:04. > :22:06.Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives
:22:07. > :22:11.have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they
:22:12. > :22:15.have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form
:22:16. > :22:22.of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr
:22:23. > :22:26.Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU
:22:27. > :22:31.exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we
:22:32. > :22:34.want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious
:22:35. > :22:40.reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to
:22:41. > :22:46.vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,
:22:47. > :22:51.somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We
:22:52. > :22:54.need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the
:22:55. > :22:57.European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of
:22:58. > :23:01.federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in
:23:02. > :23:07.Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to
:23:08. > :23:13.take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the
:23:14. > :23:19.publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.
:23:20. > :23:25.We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If
:23:26. > :23:29.enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in
:23:30. > :23:36.the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,
:23:37. > :23:41.would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected
:23:42. > :23:45.by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the
:23:46. > :23:48.European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted
:23:49. > :23:52.pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist
:23:53. > :24:04.thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe
:24:05. > :24:10.which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not
:24:11. > :24:14.want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state
:24:15. > :24:18.This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better
:24:19. > :24:22.governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to
:24:23. > :24:27.become better, to change our programme in that question. That
:24:28. > :24:34.should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for
:24:35. > :24:37.that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to
:24:38. > :24:42.be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are
:24:43. > :24:48.matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent
:24:49. > :24:56.candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British
:24:57. > :25:00.commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election
:25:01. > :25:06.-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.
:25:07. > :25:09.Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European
:25:10. > :25:15.They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs
:25:16. > :25:18.and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.
:25:19. > :25:21.What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body
:25:22. > :25:24.which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission
:25:25. > :25:37.This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They
:25:38. > :25:43.didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes
:25:44. > :25:47.They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once
:25:48. > :26:06.in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,
:26:07. > :26:14.drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they
:26:15. > :26:17.are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the
:26:18. > :26:23.party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and
:26:24. > :26:28.the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting
:26:29. > :26:32.such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election
:26:33. > :26:38.under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was
:26:39. > :26:45.invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.
:26:46. > :26:49.When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most
:26:50. > :26:52.seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated
:26:53. > :27:02.using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --
:27:03. > :27:07.first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and
:27:08. > :27:11.London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,
:27:12. > :27:15.if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant
:27:16. > :27:19.to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to
:27:20. > :27:27.UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would
:27:28. > :27:29.have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by
:27:30. > :27:37.mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to
:27:38. > :27:42.experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of
:27:43. > :27:48.1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This
:27:49. > :27:50.man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and
:27:51. > :27:57.polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat
:27:58. > :28:04.candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards
:28:05. > :28:08.realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little
:28:09. > :28:15.Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -
:28:16. > :28:22.bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.
:28:23. > :28:30.Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on
:28:31. > :28:33.so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was
:28:34. > :28:36.established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh
:28:37. > :28:40.floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to
:28:41. > :28:43.voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the
:28:44. > :28:47.conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name
:28:48. > :28:52.of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those
:28:53. > :28:57.registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our
:28:58. > :29:00.opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on
:29:01. > :29:07.the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,
:29:08. > :29:12.were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need
:29:13. > :29:18.to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An
:29:19. > :29:21.independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved
:29:22. > :29:26.in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the
:29:27. > :29:31.description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word
:29:32. > :29:37.independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in
:29:38. > :29:41.1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again
:29:42. > :29:48.at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the
:29:49. > :29:49.major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking
:29:50. > :29:58.votes of them. Joining me now to discuss
:29:59. > :30:02.this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the
:30:03. > :30:05.South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is
:30:06. > :30:20.the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that
:30:21. > :30:25.were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to
:30:26. > :30:31.tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the
:30:32. > :30:38.breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats
:30:39. > :30:46.that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:47. > :30:49.You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:50. > :30:52.You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those
:30:53. > :30:59.with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there
:31:00. > :31:05.is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people
:31:06. > :31:11.who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,
:31:12. > :31:25.they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.
:31:26. > :31:34.I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And
:31:35. > :31:38.Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent
:31:39. > :31:45.people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of
:31:46. > :31:52.delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people
:31:53. > :31:55.have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the
:31:56. > :32:01.first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them
:32:02. > :32:07.in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it
:32:08. > :32:14.strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the
:32:15. > :32:20.electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to
:32:21. > :32:24.Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European
:32:25. > :32:31.Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did
:32:32. > :32:34.come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the
:32:35. > :32:40.election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy
:32:41. > :32:44.with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got
:32:45. > :32:51.significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.
:32:52. > :32:59.Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well
:33:00. > :33:07.represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?
:33:08. > :33:21.Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.
:33:22. > :33:24.I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had
:33:25. > :33:29.getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they
:33:30. > :33:34.voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.
:33:35. > :33:41.What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would
:33:42. > :33:46.agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral
:33:47. > :33:50.Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not
:33:51. > :33:58.confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to
:33:59. > :34:02.agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes
:34:03. > :34:06.and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the
:34:07. > :34:11.south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats
:34:12. > :34:17.into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the
:34:18. > :34:23.system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did
:34:24. > :34:27.not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because
:34:28. > :34:32.you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you
:34:33. > :34:36.have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain
:34:37. > :34:39.about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have
:34:40. > :34:46.complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a
:34:47. > :34:52.proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,
:34:53. > :34:57.we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national
:34:58. > :35:00.legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for
:35:01. > :35:05.national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused
:35:06. > :35:07.some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were
:35:08. > :35:14.very worried. Worried about the is that some people in UKIP were
:35:15. > :35:18.rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel
:35:19. > :35:23.Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,
:35:24. > :35:34.particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on
:35:35. > :35:39.Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None
:35:40. > :35:48.whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no
:35:49. > :35:53.redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything
:35:54. > :35:58.so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree
:35:59. > :36:06.with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown
:36:07. > :36:11.Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of
:36:12. > :36:17.accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We
:36:18. > :36:21.have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence
:36:22. > :36:28.which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it
:36:29. > :36:31.has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been
:36:32. > :36:38.massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything
:36:39. > :36:42.it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.
:36:43. > :36:47.Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral
:36:48. > :36:50.Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes
:36:51. > :36:54.decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is
:36:55. > :37:00.about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent
:37:01. > :37:06.people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?
:37:07. > :37:09.You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I
:37:10. > :37:11.do not think it should have a right to appeal.
:37:12. > :37:16.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:17. > :37:30.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism
:37:31. > :37:33.Hello and a warm welcome to your local part of the show.
:37:34. > :37:37.This week: rising demand and deteriorating response times ` the
:37:38. > :37:39.North East ambulance servicd is struggling to cope. The Prile
:37:40. > :37:43.Minister promised to investhgate ` so what's being done? In thd studio
:37:44. > :37:46.discussing that ` and of cotrse the Queen's Speech is the Hartldpool
:37:47. > :37:52.Labour MP Iain Wright and Conservative Jeremy Middleton.
:37:53. > :37:56.The Government this week set out its "to do" list for the rest of this
:37:57. > :37:58.Parliament. It ranges from introducing charges for plastic bags
:37:59. > :38:01.in supermarkets to help for child`care and a shake`up of the
:38:02. > :38:04.planning system. But there's no doubt about its over`arching
:38:05. > :38:06.message: that the Government is "unashamedly pro`work and
:38:07. > :38:09.pro`business" and is sticking to its economic plan. As if to reinforce
:38:10. > :38:13.the point the deputy Prime Linister Nick Clegg was on Wearside on
:38:14. > :38:15.Thursday ` together with thd Business Secretary Vince Cable. They
:38:16. > :38:18.were opening a new ?100 million Rolls Royce aerospace factory in
:38:19. > :38:21.Washington. Nick Clegg said such developments were helping the
:38:22. > :38:32.We are on a long`term journdy, if you like. The North`South dhvide has
:38:33. > :38:35.been around for a long time. It s got deep roots and we're not going
:38:36. > :38:39.to solve it overnight. But H do think we're taking steps in the
:38:40. > :38:42.right direction. I say this as the most senior member of this
:38:43. > :38:45.government, from a large northern city, from Sheffield, it's something
:38:46. > :38:49.I care about passionately. What you see behind me is really, I think, an
:38:50. > :38:51.absolutely key ingredient for the future to heal the North`Sotth
:38:52. > :38:58.divide and to boost the fortunes of the North East.
:38:59. > :39:00.Well, Labour has welcomed the investment but accuses ministers of
:39:01. > :39:03.ignoring the big issues in the Queen's speech. In particul`r they
:39:04. > :39:06.want action to tackle job insecurity, youth unemploymdnt and
:39:07. > :39:09.the housing shortage. So dods the Government have a programme for the
:39:10. > :39:12.next year that will help Culbria and the North East?
:39:13. > :39:19.Jeremy Middleton, whether you think this was thin pickings or not, there
:39:20. > :39:23.was nothing much to boost pdople's living standards or get people into
:39:24. > :39:27.work, was there? I think the most important thing is
:39:28. > :39:31.that we keep the economic rdcovery going. We've got the fastest rate of
:39:32. > :39:33.growth in all of Europe. We got falling unemployment, rising
:39:34. > :39:36.employment, low inflation, the right ingredients for success. Thd most
:39:37. > :39:39.important thing is to keep that going. That doesn't require further
:39:40. > :39:42.legislation. I know some wotld suggest it does. We hear from Mr
:39:43. > :39:46.Miliband a great deal about he is going to intervene in markets.
:39:47. > :39:53.That is because people do not feel the benefit of economic growth.
:39:54. > :39:59.Well, at the moment, not enough people are feeling the benefit. That
:40:00. > :40:03.is true. But you have to look at the growth and where that leads. And it
:40:04. > :40:09.takes time. But the factors remain, what is not the answer is to have
:40:10. > :40:12.some kind of return to 1970s intervention. That will takd us back
:40:13. > :40:18.to higher unemployment and lower growth.
:40:19. > :40:22.Iain Wright ` Jeremy Middleton has a point there. You cannot leghslate
:40:23. > :40:27.for growth, can you? You can put in place the conditions
:40:28. > :40:32.to make sure that economic growth is sustainable and fair. Jeremx talks
:40:33. > :40:34.about an economic recovery. Any economic growth is welcome. But my
:40:35. > :40:41.constituents in Hartlepool, and elsewhere across the North Dast are
:40:42. > :40:44.certainly not feeling it. Wd're seeing rising job insecuritx, actual
:40:45. > :40:48.falling wage levels, let alone relative wage levels, so wh`t we
:40:49. > :40:50.need to be doing is ensuring the economic recovery is sustainable and
:40:51. > :40:52.for all. We did not have that in the Queens
:40:53. > :40:55.speech. There was some important sttff in
:40:56. > :40:58.there that will benefit your constituents. Pension changds, help
:40:59. > :41:01.on childcare, free school mdals All helping your constituents.
:41:02. > :41:05.A lot of that has been calldd for by Labour for many years. This is a
:41:06. > :41:12.mishmash. In terms of housing, the construction sector is an ilportant
:41:13. > :41:15.part of the North East economy. What the Government said in the Pueen's
:41:16. > :41:19.speech about creating 15,000 houses is welcome. We actually need 20 ,000
:41:20. > :41:21.homes a year. That would re`lly boost the construction industry and
:41:22. > :41:29.help workers in Hartlepool `nd elsewhere.
:41:30. > :41:33.Jeremy Middleton, this is an important point. You have ldss than
:41:34. > :41:38.a year until the election to prove what kind of legacy you havd had
:41:39. > :41:40.over the last five years. And on the issue of housing, never allowing
:41:41. > :41:47.fracking under people's homds, but not actually building new houses.
:41:48. > :41:51.I do not think that is corrdct. Housebuilding is going up. @nd it
:41:52. > :41:54.will go up an awful lot mord. Legislation has been announced to
:41:55. > :41:56.free up planning so we build more houses.
:41:57. > :41:58.But you are fracking under people's homes.
:41:59. > :42:01.That is a separate issue. And actually one I am very keen to
:42:02. > :42:04.support. Fracking is the most realistic way of reducing energy
:42:05. > :42:05.bills. And it will help energy intensive industries on Teesside and
:42:06. > :42:23.in Iain's constituency. What would you support thosd motors
:42:24. > :42:27.came out I do not disagree with fracking as part of a responsible
:42:28. > :42:32.energy mix. But my constitudnts are concerned, since the Queen's speech
:42:33. > :42:37.about fracking under their homes. That should not be allowed. There
:42:38. > :42:40.should be a need for proper regulation, proper scientifhc,
:42:41. > :42:46.empirical evidence based on fracking. What the Government has
:42:47. > :42:49.said, and I urge constituents to get involved, is a consultation about
:42:50. > :42:52.planning permission for fracking under their homes. 's we have to
:42:53. > :42:57.leave it there. Labour MPs are demanding urgent
:42:58. > :43:01.action to tackle what they say is a mounting crisis in the North East
:43:02. > :43:04.Ambulance Service. All this week, BBC Look North has reported on
:43:05. > :43:07.problems facing the Trust which is dealing with a huge increasd in the
:43:08. > :43:10.number of emergency calls. Some patients are facing long delays for
:43:11. > :43:13.an ambulance like Geoff Pearson from County Durham whose mother broke her
:43:14. > :43:22.hip in a fall. He had to waht three You are helpless. You cannot do
:43:23. > :43:30.anything. You're just waiting for the professionals. It is an anxious
:43:31. > :43:36.time. I could not believe it. I could not believe how you could have
:43:37. > :43:41.that many people waiting for an emergency ambulance.
:43:42. > :43:45.The North East Ambulance service does reach 80% of the most seriously
:43:46. > :43:48.ill in 8 minutes. And for p`tients who do not have a life`thre`tening
:43:49. > :43:52.condition it aims to respond within 30 minutes. But the man running the
:43:53. > :43:55.trust says both costs ` and the number of calls ` are continuing to
:43:56. > :43:58.increase. And he warned that without more money, difficult choicds will
:43:59. > :44:08.If demand goes up by 5% every year, and I have the same real resources
:44:09. > :44:11.to deal with it, then I will deal with the most life threatendd
:44:12. > :44:17.people. I will save as many lives as I possibly can. Others will not get
:44:18. > :44:25.the quality of service that they would like. We have created a very
:44:26. > :44:30.lean organisation. We will continue to do that if we need to. Bdcause
:44:31. > :44:36.the system cannot give us any more. We're in a recession. Taxpaxers
:44:37. > :44:43.provide the funding for public services. The police, the Fhre
:44:44. > :44:49.Service, the Ambulance Servhce, hospitals... In the end it hs the
:44:50. > :44:53.voters who will determine which party they wish to see npowdr and
:44:54. > :45:03.what the party says they ard willing to spend. `` to see in power.
:45:04. > :45:06.A challenge to all the parthes there. Well, the Government points
:45:07. > :45:09.out that the NHS Budget has been protected from cuts and it dxpects
:45:10. > :45:12.the ambulance service trust to act urgently to correct the problems
:45:13. > :45:17.Jeremy Middleton, if it was your family waiting, you would w`nt
:45:18. > :45:23.something done about this. H would not be impressed by a response like
:45:24. > :45:28.that one. First of all, it hs very disturbing, the cases you h`ve
:45:29. > :45:34.raised. Ian is quite right to raise these cases. But the second point is
:45:35. > :45:39.that the whole Ambulance Service is not in crisis, there was a review
:45:40. > :45:47.last year and that said that 97 of cases saw a response within 90
:45:48. > :45:55.minutes. We were rated the best in the country.
:45:56. > :46:03.There will be tough choices. There have been worrying things. H think
:46:04. > :46:08.the question is, first of all, he says it is the overall level of
:46:09. > :46:13.expenditure. It is absolutely not. That would be a valid point if the
:46:14. > :46:17.Government had been reducing expenditure. But the NHS has been
:46:18. > :46:22.protected. But not keeping up with the number
:46:23. > :46:29.of calls... The question is what is going wrong? From the cases I have
:46:30. > :46:38.seen, there are a number of specific issues, prioritisation, I al no
:46:39. > :46:42.expert, but I think some of the prioritisation is not correct.
:46:43. > :46:46.Ambulances waiting outside @ departments. These questions must be
:46:47. > :46:51.addressed by the board of the north`eastern town service, who gets
:46:52. > :46:55.money from the doctors and commissioners. It is how thd money
:46:56. > :47:01.is being spent. You talked about this service being
:47:02. > :47:04.in crisis. Is that not a bit strong? It is the fastest service in the
:47:05. > :47:09.country. I raised this matter in Parliament.
:47:10. > :47:14.There was a distressing casd in my constituency where a man didd,
:47:15. > :47:21.waiting to ours for an ambulance on his bathroom floor. The inqtest said
:47:22. > :47:26.that they did not have resotrces to meet demand. Jeremy is wrong. It has
:47:27. > :47:33.not been protected. The north`east and on service has seen acttal cuts.
:47:34. > :47:39.This year it has seen a cut of 1.35 billion. Rising demand, and ageing
:47:40. > :47:45.population, and cutting resources...
:47:46. > :47:48.Is the answer that Labour is committed to putting more money into
:47:49. > :47:54.Ambulance Services? What needs to be done, is the NHS
:47:55. > :47:57.must be viewed in a holistic manner. The Ambulance Service must be
:47:58. > :48:01.recognised as the glue that holds it together.
:48:02. > :48:05.But you cannot it promises... It is absolutely right that we put
:48:06. > :48:10.more resources into our Ambtlance Service. I want to insure mx
:48:11. > :48:15.constituents receive the best possible service at a time of acute
:48:16. > :48:24.anxiety, if your mother has broken her hip, you want to make stre you
:48:25. > :48:32.get a swift and professional... Germany made an important point in
:48:33. > :48:40.that when you call for help, what questions are asked of you? That is
:48:41. > :48:45.an important thing. Making sure there is professional, clinhcally
:48:46. > :48:52.led, 909 response. Jeremy Middleton, people will look
:48:53. > :48:59.at this and say that Labour is correct. The NHS is not safd in
:49:00. > :49:07.Conservative hands. Well, I think we are both right. There is more money
:49:08. > :49:10.going into the NHS. He did not promise more money. But what he is
:49:11. > :49:14.suggesting is that they think there should be more money in the
:49:15. > :49:18.Ambulance Service there shotld be. But it is the job of the bo`rd of
:49:19. > :49:21.the ambulance trust to perstade the doctors and those in the NHS that
:49:22. > :49:29.they should commission and have more money. Either they are failhng to
:49:30. > :49:34.persuade them, or they are not operationally efficient.
:49:35. > :49:40.If I am a patient, I hear these arguments about who is provhding
:49:41. > :49:47.money, who is taking charge? Why the Government not taking chargd? In the
:49:48. > :49:51.eastern region of the country, where there is also concern about
:49:52. > :49:55.ambulance trusts, they created a great deal of fuss about thhs and
:49:56. > :49:59.ended up getting rid of the entire board and change the managelent and
:50:00. > :50:03.now they have improved results. I am not saying that is what shotld
:50:04. > :50:06.happen here. But this is for doctors and professionals within thd NHS to
:50:07. > :50:11.decide how they allocate thdir money. The Chief Executive `nd
:50:12. > :50:15.politicians are seeing it as nothing to do with us, but that is just an
:50:16. > :50:21.easy answer. You're playing the blame gale,
:50:22. > :50:32.basically. No. I am standing up for my
:50:33. > :50:36.constituents. I am not using this as a stick to beat the Governmdnt. I
:50:37. > :50:39.want a first`class Ambulancd Service for my constituents and the rest of
:50:40. > :50:45.the North East. When things go wrong, it seems to be very bad and
:50:46. > :50:49.has fatal consequences. Rishng demand and cutting resources is not
:50:50. > :50:50.the answer. It is a difficult subject. Sure we
:50:51. > :50:54.will come back to it. Now, in a 100 day?s time Scots will
:50:55. > :50:59.be about to decide on whethdr they want to become independent. It's a
:51:00. > :51:02.decision which also matters to the North East and Cumbria. In the past
:51:03. > :51:05.it has sometimes been locked in battle with Scotland for jobs and
:51:06. > :51:08.inward investment. So what does business here think an independent
:51:09. > :51:12.Scotland will mean for them? Well to try and find out, the Chambdr of
:51:13. > :51:15.Commerce in the region asked more than 240 of its members. Here's our
:51:16. > :51:21.political correspondent Mark Denten. A business Park in Newcastld. Jobs
:51:22. > :51:30.are being created here. But, as you can see, still plenty of empty
:51:31. > :51:34.space. Offices like this ond are crying out for tenants. The jobs
:51:35. > :51:40.that could have come here h`ve gone to Scotland instead. One colpany
:51:41. > :51:47.were considering bringing jobs here, but chose to relocate to Scotland
:51:48. > :51:52.instead. An independent Scotland could be an even fiercer colpetitor.
:51:53. > :51:59.As Edinburgh's nearest neighbour, we will feel it. We need to have more
:52:00. > :52:05.control over spending. More control over how are offering is perceived
:52:06. > :52:09.to these large occupiers. To ensure the cameramen competitor.
:52:10. > :52:14.Concerns among businesses in the region are coming into sharper
:52:15. > :52:19.focus, as Scotland prepares to vote on independence. Around 240
:52:20. > :52:28.companies in Cumbria and thd north`east gave their views to the
:52:29. > :52:32.BBC any questionnaire. 63 South that is an independent Scotland were to
:52:33. > :52:37.cut corporation tax, they mhght consider investing north of the
:52:38. > :52:40.border rather than in this region. But the majority, 176, said it would
:52:41. > :52:50.make no difference to their investment decisions. That hs the
:52:51. > :52:54.case for this Durham firm. Hn the last few weeks, the body Scottish
:52:55. > :53:02.building firm. They are confident of their future. This is a str`tegic
:53:03. > :53:06.decision to expand our business We are employing a lot of people. In
:53:07. > :53:13.Scotland and Cumbria. What difference should make you
:53:14. > :53:16.construction works across borders. We have international companies
:53:17. > :53:20.working within the UK. So what is the difference?
:53:21. > :53:24.The Chamber of Commerce said that the biggest problem is the lack of
:53:25. > :53:26.information. We have heard that businesses are holding back on
:53:27. > :53:31.investing because they are waiting to see what the outcome of the
:53:32. > :53:36.referendum is. That is a disappointing situation. Thdre is an
:53:37. > :53:40.inevitability about it, but I think that people on both sides of the
:53:41. > :53:45.debate should do more to provide clarity for business.
:53:46. > :53:49.Most businesses in the region are confident they can punch thdir
:53:50. > :53:51.but there are concerns from some but but there are concerns from some but
:53:52. > :53:56.it could leave gaps in our dconomy. Well earlier Mark spoke to Hvan
:53:57. > :53:59.McKee from Business for Scotland ` that's an organisation which
:54:00. > :54:02.supports independence and is affiliated to the Yes campahgn. He
:54:03. > :54:05.asked first whether an independent Scotland would succeed at the
:54:06. > :54:15.expense of our region. It is not a 0`sum game. At the
:54:16. > :54:23.moment, we're in the same UK. I think, an independent Scotl`nd is a
:54:24. > :54:32.growth engine, which is what this is about, focusing on policies that
:54:33. > :54:35.work for Scotland, which is very different from the focus of
:54:36. > :54:41.Westminster on the South of England. I think people in the North East
:54:42. > :54:46.very much understand this. They have seen this centralisation ovdr the
:54:47. > :54:51.decades. Scotland has a strong and vibrant economy and that will
:54:52. > :55:00.benefit the North East. But the reality is that in lany
:55:01. > :55:06.cases we are competitors in the oil and gas and renewables industry Our
:55:07. > :55:12.companies are competing with your companies. Everyone cannot win.
:55:13. > :55:19.Economic growth benefit everybody. The oil sector has seen record
:55:20. > :55:25.investment. There are many people in this part of England who tr`vel to
:55:26. > :55:33.work in Scotland and benefit from that growing sector. There hs plenty
:55:34. > :55:36.of work for all kinds of colpanies. Renewables will be a huge growth
:55:37. > :55:41.sector for the Scottish economy in the years going forward and there is
:55:42. > :55:46.no reason why companies in this part of England should not benefht from
:55:47. > :55:51.that. At the end of the day, it is a European market. It works across
:55:52. > :55:56.borders. That will continue as it does at the moment. A growing
:55:57. > :56:07.Scottish economy can only bd good for this part of England.
:56:08. > :56:10.Labour MPs in the north`east are concerned about central Parhs and
:56:11. > :56:17.London. But could the north`east economy not benefit from a shift in
:56:18. > :56:21.power to Glasgow and Edinburgh? I think we're better togethdr. We
:56:22. > :56:26.are more successful as the Tnited Kingdom. Further restrictions does
:56:27. > :56:33.not help anybody. Is it not a fair point to stggest
:56:34. > :56:38.that having a capital city closer to us is a good thing?
:56:39. > :56:42.I do not think that is the right answer. It is important to recognise
:56:43. > :56:46.that our economy is too distorted towards London and the South East,
:56:47. > :56:51.but the answer is giving us greater powers in the regions to be able to
:56:52. > :56:56.fulfil our destiny. We have huge advantages in the North East,
:56:57. > :57:06.industrial strengths, give ts the powers to achieve our potential
:57:07. > :57:08.If renewable energy takes off in an independent Scotland, could the
:57:09. > :57:19.North East the a beneficiarx of that? What I am concerned about
:57:20. > :57:25.whether they vote yes or no, is that Scotland will have a transfdr of tax
:57:26. > :57:28.and spend authority, and thdy will take money from the south E`st and
:57:29. > :57:33.use it against us. The dangdr is that it is used effectively to bribe
:57:34. > :57:38.businesses to operate in Scotland who would otherwise operate in the
:57:39. > :57:43.North East. We need reassur`nces from the prime minister and the
:57:44. > :57:48.Chancellor that we will not be at an economic disadvantage. Everx single
:57:49. > :57:53.political party is offering more tax`and`spend because of thd
:57:54. > :57:57.election. We need to ensure that the north`east is not put at a
:57:58. > :58:01.disadvantage. Scotland alre`dy has more spending per head than the
:58:02. > :58:11.north`east. Should they balance more powers
:58:12. > :58:15.here? They should ensure thd north`east is not at an economic
:58:16. > :58:22.disadvantage. Ideally, that would be done by ensuring that Scotl`nd
:58:23. > :58:25.cannot bribe businesses. Thd alternative is potentially we need
:58:26. > :58:29.more economic Government powers here.
:58:30. > :58:33.Is the danger not that we gdt more companies like Amazon reloc`ting to
:58:34. > :58:40.Scotland? They have not formally put hn place
:58:41. > :58:47.that investment. The point hs that it is not in anybody's interests to
:58:48. > :58:58.have a race to the bottom. We should remain as a United Kingdom.
:58:59. > :59:02.Now, the Queen's speech may have had all the pomp and ceremony this week
:59:03. > :59:06.` but back in the Commons chamber a Teesside MP was interested hn
:59:07. > :59:10.With that and the rest of the week's news here's Fergus Hewison.
:59:11. > :59:13.All buses carrying passengers should be fitted with seat belts, says
:59:14. > :59:17.North West Durham MP Pat Gl`ss. She made the remarks after a collision
:59:18. > :59:18.which injured 30 people, including 28 children.
:59:19. > :59:21.Meanwhile, Tom Blenkinsop, Labour's Middlesbrough South and East
:59:22. > :59:23.Cleveland MP, wants all households affected by flooding to recdive
:59:24. > :59:27.The Government must act to protect all households from the dam`ging
:59:28. > :59:31.effects of flooding. Not just those in urban areas, or where thdre is a
:59:32. > :59:34.high media presence. I would also urge the government to extend the
:59:35. > :59:38.support and emphasis it has given to areas hit last winter by flooding to
:59:39. > :59:44.places like East Cleveland, which were hit earlier in the year.
:59:45. > :59:47.New figures released this wdek reveal seven areas in the North East
:59:48. > :59:51.and Cumbria are among the worst in the country for the number of empty
:59:52. > :59:54.homes. South Lakeland, Hartlepool, Gateshead and Copeland are `mong the
:59:55. > :59:57.top 20. The Queen's speech contained plans to allow elections for
:59:58. > :00:00.National Parks authorities ` a move the Government says will address a
:00:01. > :00:02.democratic deficit. And finally, Durham County Council
:00:03. > :00:04.has launched a consultation on banning people from smoking in
:00:05. > :00:16.That's about it from us. Don't forget to follow me on Twitter ` I
:00:17. > :00:20.may even follow you back, in the nicest possible fashion. We'll be
:00:21. > :00:22.here same time same place ndxt weekend ` hope you can join me then.
:00:23. > :00:35.my guests. That is it for the Sunday Politics in London. Back to Andrew.
:00:36. > :00:39.Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools?
:00:40. > :00:48.Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make
:00:49. > :01:10.we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read
:01:11. > :01:14.the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read
:01:15. > :01:29.the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in
:01:30. > :01:36.your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not
:01:37. > :01:41.being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national
:01:42. > :01:44.holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off
:01:45. > :01:50.instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is
:01:51. > :01:59.going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to
:02:00. > :02:04.influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like
:02:05. > :02:10.the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society
:02:11. > :02:17.and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to
:02:18. > :02:23.Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such
:02:24. > :02:28.as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as
:02:29. > :02:31.guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit
:02:32. > :02:40.half of what men saying this means that women inherit
:02:41. > :02:41.and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get
:02:42. > :02:45.any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law
:02:46. > :02:52.Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is
:02:53. > :02:58.meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different
:02:59. > :03:02.situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my
:03:03. > :03:05.profession of you and planned infiltration? In my
:03:06. > :03:08.profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an
:03:09. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been involved
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to
:03:22. > :03:26.influence the students of this country with a medieval
:03:27. > :03:29.interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative
:03:30. > :03:34.view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within
:03:35. > :03:41.our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were
:03:42. > :03:46.explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican
:03:47. > :03:52.faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.
:03:53. > :03:57.Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a
:03:58. > :04:03.policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this
:04:04. > :04:10.establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the
:04:11. > :04:14.solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working
:04:15. > :04:18.out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular
:04:19. > :04:22.and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is
:04:23. > :04:29.coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying
:04:30. > :04:33.about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very
:04:34. > :04:40.serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into
:04:41. > :04:43.intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You
:04:44. > :04:49.have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very
:04:50. > :04:53.often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or
:04:54. > :04:56.Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that
:04:57. > :05:01.leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think
:05:02. > :05:05.all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound
:05:06. > :05:10.problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish
:05:11. > :05:13.schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict
:05:14. > :05:19.Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get
:05:20. > :05:23.worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a
:05:24. > :05:27.problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state
:05:28. > :05:40.should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like
:05:41. > :05:46.France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take
:05:47. > :05:51.power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some
:05:52. > :05:54.schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than
:05:55. > :05:58.incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of
:05:59. > :06:04.this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you
:06:05. > :06:07.devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and
:06:08. > :06:12.behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary
:06:13. > :06:16.for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views
:06:17. > :06:21.that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe
:06:22. > :06:24.would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how
:06:25. > :06:28.tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that
:06:29. > :06:36.view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do
:06:37. > :06:41.expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the
:06:42. > :06:46.taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,
:06:47. > :06:49.educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated
:06:50. > :06:53.equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at
:06:54. > :06:57.which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,
:06:58. > :07:01.because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned
:07:02. > :07:06.about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.
:07:07. > :07:11.There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley
:07:12. > :07:15.Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating
:07:16. > :07:18.free schools and academies is undermined the work of local
:07:19. > :07:25.education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which
:07:26. > :07:31.are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of
:07:32. > :07:37.being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have
:07:38. > :07:41.the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary
:07:42. > :07:47.of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not
:07:48. > :07:50.that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the
:07:51. > :07:55.oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By
:07:56. > :08:02.tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you
:08:03. > :08:09.think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The
:08:10. > :08:13.story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report
:08:14. > :08:17.that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other
:08:18. > :08:21.report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in
:08:22. > :08:31.July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look
:08:32. > :08:36.at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even
:08:37. > :08:43.government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism
:08:44. > :08:48.became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed
:08:49. > :08:54.the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the
:08:55. > :09:00.argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They
:09:01. > :09:04.should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It
:09:05. > :09:14.was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a
:09:15. > :09:22.hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to
:09:23. > :09:35.resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just
:09:36. > :09:46.has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?
:09:47. > :09:50.You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping
:09:51. > :09:54.him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a
:09:55. > :09:58.massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal
:09:59. > :10:04.market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic
:10:05. > :10:10.decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he
:10:11. > :10:18.takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the
:10:19. > :10:21.beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British
:10:22. > :10:28.Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is
:10:29. > :10:35.reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.
:10:36. > :10:43.There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot
:10:44. > :10:48.of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from
:10:49. > :10:53.Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and
:10:54. > :10:57.drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could
:10:58. > :11:01.think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I
:11:02. > :11:04.remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when
:11:05. > :11:07.the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European
:11:08. > :11:13.constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the
:11:14. > :11:20.ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively
:11:21. > :11:24.rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You
:11:25. > :11:29.can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the
:11:30. > :11:31.people who have protested at the elections with the way the European
:11:32. > :11:54.Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What
:11:55. > :12:07.has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we
:12:08. > :12:10.go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink
:12:11. > :12:21.at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.
:12:22. > :12:25.Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define
:12:26. > :12:29.clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough
:12:30. > :12:33.for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the
:12:34. > :12:37.fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We
:12:38. > :12:43.need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,
:12:44. > :12:47.assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is
:12:48. > :12:55.what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to
:12:56. > :12:58.finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger
:12:59. > :13:04.people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually
:13:05. > :13:09.liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too
:13:10. > :13:15.late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the
:13:16. > :13:23.one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been
:13:24. > :13:28.doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight
:13:29. > :13:32.three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you
:13:33. > :13:50.are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be
:13:51. > :14:18.back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:14:19. > :14:20.What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?
:14:21. > :14:23.You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.
:14:24. > :14:27.It's like a big old question mark in your heart.