06/07/2014

:00:34. > :00:40.Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week.

:00:41. > :00:43.It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 201 .

:00:44. > :00:45.The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and

:00:46. > :00:51.Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head.

:00:52. > :00:54.The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well

:00:55. > :00:58.for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about.

:00:59. > :01:00.Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the

:01:01. > :01:06.Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future.

:01:07. > :01:10.The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling,

:01:11. > :01:15.joins me from Edinburgh. In the North East and Cumbria:

:01:16. > :01:17.joins me from Edinburgh. Are voters listening to Labour?

:01:18. > :01:34.And with me throughout the show three top-flight political

:01:35. > :01:37.journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt,

:01:38. > :01:51.They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal.

:01:52. > :01:53.The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling

:01:54. > :01:56.around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring.

:01:57. > :01:59.Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier

:02:00. > :02:01.handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official

:02:02. > :02:04.files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child

:02:05. > :02:09.Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection

:02:10. > :02:14.But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning

:02:15. > :02:19.the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out.

:02:20. > :02:25.The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due

:02:26. > :02:29.process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and

:02:30. > :02:33.we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the

:02:34. > :02:36.past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the

:02:37. > :02:41.allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in

:02:42. > :02:46.order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the

:02:47. > :02:49.case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring

:02:50. > :02:54.tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the

:02:55. > :02:59.Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very

:03:00. > :03:02.hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for

:03:03. > :03:06.an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this.

:03:07. > :03:11.The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way

:03:12. > :03:15.that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people

:03:16. > :03:19.who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell

:03:20. > :03:23.their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea.

:03:24. > :03:27.Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in

:03:28. > :03:34.2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast

:03:35. > :03:36.Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people

:03:37. > :03:40.don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either

:03:41. > :03:45.because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust

:03:46. > :03:49.the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in

:03:50. > :03:53.the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a

:03:54. > :03:56.matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the

:03:57. > :04:02.police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim

:04:03. > :04:03.Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the

:04:04. > :04:06.United States making the allegations lives in the

:04:07. > :04:09.been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister

:04:10. > :04:09.would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem

:04:10. > :04:16.for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem

:04:17. > :04:20.allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to

:04:21. > :04:20.the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime

:04:21. > :04:34.inrequest -- that inquiry took 12 years to report. The problem is the

:04:35. > :04:40.dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations

:04:41. > :04:42.keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it

:04:43. > :04:50.is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is

:04:51. > :04:54.inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is

:04:55. > :04:54.inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after

:04:55. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by

:05:03. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require

:05:03. > :05:05.resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the

:05:06. > :05:11.case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country

:05:12. > :05:14.we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do I

:05:15. > :05:18.in what a public inquiry can do. I wonder whether there is another

:05:19. > :05:22.example of a country that goes through this stale ritual every few

:05:23. > :05:25.years of a scandal emerging, the opposition calling for an inquiry,

:05:26. > :05:28.the Government saying no and then holding the line or giving in. I

:05:29. > :05:33.don't know what we think this inquiries can do. It comes back to

:05:34. > :05:36.your point, Helen, you should be careful what you call an inquiry on

:05:37. > :05:41.so it doesn't devalue the concept. On Thursday up to a million public

:05:42. > :05:43.sector workers - including teachers, firemen and council workers -

:05:44. > :05:45.will go on strike. Their unions have differing gripes

:05:46. > :05:48.but the fact they're all striking on the same day is designed to send

:05:49. > :05:50.a strong message to the government. As the economy picks up again

:05:51. > :05:52.they're demanding an end Growth has returned strongly to

:05:53. > :05:59.the UK economy and unemployment is at its lowest

:06:00. > :06:02.level for more than five years. So why is there still talk

:06:03. > :06:04.of austerity The deficit is coming down but much

:06:05. > :06:09.more slowly than the government And accumulated deficits -

:06:10. > :06:17.the national debt - The UK is now in hock to the tune

:06:18. > :06:25.of ?1.3 trillion - and rising. In fact, we're only 40% of the way

:06:26. > :06:29.through George Osborne's planned austerity, with the chancellor now

:06:30. > :06:32.saying he won't manage to balance Unions are now rebelling

:06:33. > :06:38.against tight pay controls. Since 2010, average public sector

:06:39. > :06:41.pay, which goes to about 1 in 5 Over the same period,

:06:42. > :06:49.prices increased by 16% - meaning the average public sector

:06:50. > :06:52.worker saw their pay squeezed Going head-to-head on the public

:06:53. > :07:00.sector strikes and austerity - the general secretary of the TUC

:07:01. > :07:19.Frances O'Grady, and Conservative We have seen it, public sector pay

:07:20. > :07:25.squeezed by 9% under the Coalition Government. Isn't it time to take

:07:26. > :07:31.your foot off the brake a bit? I don't think it is the right time to

:07:32. > :07:35.let go of the public finances at all. We were always clear that this

:07:36. > :07:39.is what's called a structural deficit, it doesn't go away just

:07:40. > :07:44.because the growth is returning and the economy is coming back. We have

:07:45. > :07:50.protected and are protecting the lowest paid public sector workers

:07:51. > :07:55.who weren't part of the pay freeze and now pay going up by 1%. These

:07:56. > :08:01.are difficult decisions. We have had that discussion many times. They are

:08:02. > :08:06.necessary in order to keep that plan on track and as we can see in the

:08:07. > :08:08.wider economy, it is working. People's living standards will have

:08:09. > :08:13.to continue to fall if you are in the public sector? We need to keep

:08:14. > :08:17.public spending under control and pay restraint is one of the main

:08:18. > :08:21.ways of being able... The answer is yes? The answer is this is

:08:22. > :08:24.necessary. The answer is yes, this is necessary. It isn't because we

:08:25. > :08:27.want to. We have to. This strike isn't going to change the

:08:28. > :08:31.Government's mind, is it? It does seem like the Government isn't

:08:32. > :08:34.listening. We have had years... They are listening, they just don't

:08:35. > :08:37.agree. Ordinary people, including those in the public sector, are

:08:38. > :08:43.finding it really tough. What really sticks in the throat is the idea

:08:44. > :08:46.that money can be found to give tax cuts to billionaires, to

:08:47. > :08:54.millionaires and to big corporations. But it can't be found

:08:55. > :08:58.to help 500,000 workers in local government, dinner ladies, school

:08:59. > :09:02.meal workers, lollipop men and women who are earning less than the living

:09:03. > :09:05.wage. What do you say to that? We have protected those who are the

:09:06. > :09:10.least well-paid in the public sector. But this is about a

:09:11. > :09:14.long-term... How can you? Hold on. You have said you have protected

:09:15. > :09:19.them. This involves ordinary people, many watching this programme, they

:09:20. > :09:26.have had a 1% pay rise in some cases since 2010. The average gas bill is

:09:27. > :09:28.up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food costs up 16%, running a car 11% in

:09:29. > :09:35.costs up 16%, running a car 11%, in what way have you protected people

:09:36. > :09:40.from spending they have to make? Firstly, you read out the average

:09:41. > :09:43.increases in public sector pay. That has had the biggest impact at the

:09:44. > :09:48.top end and those at the bottom end have been best protected, as best we

:09:49. > :09:52.could. Of course, we have also taken two million people out of income tax

:09:53. > :09:56.and increased the income tax threshold which has a big positive

:09:57. > :10:00.impact. We have frozen and then cut fuel duty, which would have been 20

:10:01. > :10:04.pence higher. I wanted to take on this point about priorities. We have

:10:05. > :10:09.got to make sure that we get the economy going at the same time and

:10:10. > :10:15.we raised more money from those at the top than we did before 2010,

:10:16. > :10:19.partly because we have encouraged them to invest. And this is a really

:10:20. > :10:24.important balance of making sure we get the books back in order, we have

:10:25. > :10:29.stability for family finances and we get the economy going. Why not

:10:30. > :10:33.spread the living wage? We know you could pay for that pay increase

:10:34. > :10:36.itself if you spread the living wage through the private sector and

:10:37. > :10:43.guarantee... The living wage being above the minimum wage? Absolutely.

:10:44. > :10:51.?7.65 in the rest of the country, ?8.80 in London. What is the answer?

:10:52. > :10:58.I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But not for public sector workers. Being

:10:59. > :11:01.able to pay low-paid workers as much as possible within the constraints

:11:02. > :11:04.of the public finances is something I have pushed very hard. The

:11:05. > :11:09.evidence we can increase the minimum wage has to be balanced which the

:11:10. > :11:17.Low Pay Commission do with the impact on the number of jobs... Even

:11:18. > :11:22.after a pay freeze for quite a while among public sector workers, they

:11:23. > :11:31.are still paid 15% on average more than those in the private sector?

:11:32. > :11:35.That is not true. It is, according to the ONS figures. I read that

:11:36. > :11:39.report this morning. If you look at the whole package, what they are

:11:40. > :11:48.saying is public service workers are worse off. Average earnings in the

:11:49. > :11:54.public sector are ?16.28 an hour compared to ?14.16 private. You are

:11:55. > :11:57.comparing apples and pears. It's the kind of jobs and the size of the

:11:58. > :12:03.workplace that people work in. They are still overall on average better

:12:04. > :12:08.off? Lower paid workers tend to be better off because unions negotiate

:12:09. > :12:16.better deals for lower paid workers. They are more unionised in the pry

:12:17. > :12:21.private sector. The public sector is worse off. This is a political

:12:22. > :12:24.strike, isn't it? There is a whole disparate range of reasons. The

:12:25. > :12:29.strike is saying that you are against this Government, that is

:12:30. > :12:32.what this is about? I this I what firefighters, local government

:12:33. > :12:36.workers and health workers who are protesting, too, alongside teachers

:12:37. > :12:40.are saying is that this Government is not listening, it is out of

:12:41. > :12:44.touch, people can't carry on having cuts in their living standards

:12:45. > :12:49.depending on benefits. When will the public sector worker ever get a real

:12:50. > :12:55.increase in their pay under a Conservative Government? Well, we

:12:56. > :13:00.certainly hope to have the books balanced by 2018. Not before then?

:13:01. > :13:02.2018 is when we hope to be able to be in surplus. It is testament. .

:13:03. > :13:10.be in surplus. It is testament... So, no real pay increase for public

:13:11. > :13:17.sector workers before 2018? Interestingly, this isn't just about

:13:18. > :13:20.the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, the Labour Party leadership have

:13:21. > :13:24.said it is a test of their credibility that they support the

:13:25. > :13:27.squeeze on public sector pay. I look forward to them, they ought to come

:13:28. > :13:30.out and say very clearly that these strikes are wrong and they are

:13:31. > :13:36.against the strikes and stop taking union money. It is a democratic

:13:37. > :13:40.right. Hold on. They are - they think the policy of pay restraint is

:13:41. > :13:49.necessary. Alright. On this point about democracy... Ask yourself why

:13:50. > :13:56.so many ordinary decent public service workers are so fed up. They

:13:57. > :14:05.have seen so many billions of pounds wasted through outsourcing to

:14:06. > :14:12.organisations like G4 S. In Unite and UNISON the turnout in this vote

:14:13. > :14:17.was under 20%. Alright. OK. One final question... Hold on. You said

:14:18. > :14:21.millions and millions voted on this... I want to ask you this

:14:22. > :14:24.question. Is the story in the Mail on Sunday today that Mr Cameron's

:14:25. > :14:29.on Sunday today that Mr Cameron s planning a big crackdown on the

:14:30. > :14:34.unions over balloting, is that true? Well, strikes like this... I know

:14:35. > :14:38.the cases, is it true you are going to dhang the law? Strikes like this

:14:39. > :14:42.make that argument stronger. The Conservative Party is in Government

:14:43. > :14:44.on the basis of 23% of the electorate... We have run out of

:14:45. > :14:48.time. Thank you very much. "Should Scotland be

:14:49. > :14:51.an independent country?" That's the question the people of

:14:52. > :14:53.Scotland will answer in a referendum If the polls are to be believed

:14:54. > :14:57.the voters will answer "no". But in 2011 - ten weeks before

:14:58. > :14:59.the Holyrood elections - the polls told us that Labour was going to win

:15:00. > :15:01.and look what happened there - a Alistair Darling is leading

:15:02. > :15:24.the campaign against independnence. is one that puts the matter of

:15:25. > :15:30.independence to bed for a generation. In numerical terms, what

:15:31. > :15:35.would that be? We need a decisive result in September, I think we will

:15:36. > :15:39.get that provided we get our arguments across in the next couple

:15:40. > :15:44.of months. What would it be in figures? I am not going to put a

:15:45. > :15:50.number on it. People will look at it and say, OK, you have had two and a

:15:51. > :15:56.half years of debate and Scotland has now decided. The polls may be

:15:57. > :16:00.encouraging at the moment but I am not complacent, there is still a

:16:01. > :16:06.long way to go. Speculating... If you don't want to answer that, that

:16:07. > :16:12.is fair enough. Your side claims that a vote for independence is a

:16:13. > :16:17.vote for massive uncertainty but if it is a no vote there is lots of

:16:18. > :16:20.uncertainty too. All of the Westminster parties are promising

:16:21. > :16:27.devolution but there is no timetable, no certainty. Yes, there

:16:28. > :16:33.is. For the first time I can remember, all three parties are more

:16:34. > :16:39.or less on the same page in terms of additional powers, we already have

:16:40. > :16:44.powers in terms of policing and transport, now more powers are

:16:45. > :16:52.planned in relation to tax and welfare. But you are all saying

:16:53. > :16:55.different things. Between 2009 and 2012, the three parties have

:16:56. > :17:00.slightly different proposals but they came together and there was an

:17:01. > :17:08.agreed series of reforms in relation to tax which are now on the statute

:17:09. > :17:12.book. If you go back to the devolutionary settlement in 199 ,

:17:13. > :17:17.people unified around a single proposition so there is history here

:17:18. > :17:20.and these three parties have delivered and they will deliver in

:17:21. > :17:27.the event of people saying we will stay part of the UK. If Scotland

:17:28. > :17:31.vote no to independence, when will Scotland get these extra powers? I

:17:32. > :17:36.would imagine that in the general election all three parties will have

:17:37. > :17:40.something in their manifesto and you would expect to see legislation in

:17:41. > :17:44.the session of Parliament that follows that. Imagining is not

:17:45. > :17:50.certainty. Because the three parties have said this is what they will do,

:17:51. > :17:55.and it is important having said that they stick to it. If you look in the

:17:56. > :18:02.past when the Nationalists said the same thing, when they cast doubt

:18:03. > :18:06.over what would happen in 2012, we delivered. The only party that

:18:07. > :18:10.walked out of both of these discussions were the Nationalists

:18:11. > :18:15.because they are not interested in more powers, they want a complete

:18:16. > :18:20.break. You cannot say that if Edinburgh gets more devolution that

:18:21. > :18:26.wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster, can you? Nobody has any

:18:27. > :18:32.plans to reduce the number of MPs. If you step back from this moment,

:18:33. > :18:36.what people have been asked to do in September is to vote on the future

:18:37. > :18:42.of their country, Scotland, and whether we should be part of the UK.

:18:43. > :18:45.When I say part of the UK, full members of the UK with

:18:46. > :18:49.representation in the House of Commons and the institutions that

:18:50. > :18:56.affect our lives. This is a critically important vote. We want

:18:57. > :19:00.to see more decentralisation of power to Scotland, and to local

:19:01. > :19:05.authorities within Scotland, but we don't want a complete break with the

:19:06. > :19:10.uncertainties, the risks and the downright disadvantages that would

:19:11. > :19:20.throw Scotland's away if we were to make that break. The economic

:19:21. > :19:38.arguments are dominating people s thinking, the polls show, that is

:19:39. > :19:41.what is dominating at the moment. You cannot guarantee continued

:19:42. > :19:48.membership of the European Union given all the talk now about an

:19:49. > :19:53.in-out UK referendum. Firstly I don't think anyone has ever argued

:19:54. > :19:57.Scotland wouldn't get back in. The big question is the terms and

:19:58. > :20:01.conditions we would have to meet and we are applying to get into

:20:02. > :20:07.something that is established, it wouldn't be a negotiation. What we

:20:08. > :20:12.have said is there is no way Europe would let Scotland keep the rebate

:20:13. > :20:19.which Scotland has, there would be big questions over whether we have

:20:20. > :20:24.to join the euro, and other terms and conditions. The European Union

:20:25. > :20:29.does not act with any great speed, on average it takes eight and a half

:20:30. > :20:33.years to get into Europe. I don t want that uncertainty or the

:20:34. > :20:40.disadvantages that would come Scotland's away that come with

:20:41. > :20:46.losing clout in the European Union. The second point you asked me about

:20:47. > :20:50.is in relation to the UK's membership of the European Union,

:20:51. > :21:00.and if you look at polls, the majority of people still want to

:21:01. > :21:05.stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of people on my side didn't make the

:21:06. > :21:11.argument against independence for a long time, we have been doing that

:21:12. > :21:17.over the last two and a half years and we are making progress and that

:21:18. > :21:20.is why I can say I think we will win provided we continue to get our

:21:21. > :21:25.arguments across. Similarly with the European Union, the case needs to be

:21:26. > :21:31.made because it is a powerful case. Isn't it true that the Nationalists

:21:32. > :21:40.win either way? They win if it is a yes vote, and they win if it is a no

:21:41. > :21:47.vote. They wanted devolution max so they win either way. There is a

:21:48. > :21:51.world of difference between devolution and further devolution

:21:52. > :21:57.where you remain part of the UK. There is a world of difference

:21:58. > :22:01.between that and making a break, where Scotland becomes a foreign

:22:02. > :22:06.country to the rest of the UK. You lose that security and those

:22:07. > :22:15.opportunities. You lose the same currency, the opportunity with

:22:16. > :22:20.pensions and so on. They are entitled to argue this case with

:22:21. > :22:26.passion, they want a break, but the two things are worlds apart. Gordon

:22:27. > :22:30.Brown said that the no campaign was too negative, have you adjusted to

:22:31. > :22:35.take that criticism into account? Ever since I launched this campaign

:22:36. > :22:41.over two years ago I said we would make a strong powerful case for

:22:42. > :22:47.remaining part of the UK. Look at our research, where we have had

:22:48. > :22:51.warnings from people to say that if we do well with research in Scotland

:22:52. > :22:57.we get more than our population share of the grand and we gain from

:22:58. > :23:02.that. There is a positive case but equally nobody will stop me from

:23:03. > :23:06.saying to the Nationalists, look at the assertions you make which are

:23:07. > :23:10.collapsing like skittles at the moment. Their assertions don't stand

:23:11. > :23:16.up. They assert that somehow milk and honey will be flowing. It is

:23:17. > :23:22.perfectly healthy within a referendum campaign to say that what

:23:23. > :23:38.you are saying simply isn't true. You have been negative, we all know

:23:39. > :23:47.about the so-called Cyber Nats book you compared Alex Salmond to the

:23:48. > :23:52.leader of North Korea. On! The context was that Alex Salmond was

:23:53. > :23:58.being asked why it was that UKIP had additional seat and he appeared to

:23:59. > :24:04.blame television being been doing from another country, from BBC South

:24:05. > :24:13.of the border. If you cannot have humour in a debate, heaven help us.

:24:14. > :24:17.I think it is important in this debate that people from outside

:24:18. > :24:22.politics should be allowed to have their say whatever side they are on

:24:23. > :24:27.because that will make for a far better, healthier debate. Nobody

:24:28. > :24:32.should be put in a state of fear and alarm by worrying about what will

:24:33. > :24:37.happen if they stand up. Despite the nastiness, more and more people are

:24:38. > :24:45.making a stand. We have run out of time. Thank you.

:24:46. > :24:53.I will be talking to the SNP's hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon,

:24:54. > :24:57.next week on Sunday Politics. Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will

:24:58. > :25:02.be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow. Disastrous results in the European

:25:03. > :25:08.elections, it is fair to say the Lib Dems are down in the doldrums. In a

:25:09. > :25:17.moment I will be speaking to Nick Clegg, but first Emily has been

:25:18. > :25:32.asking what Lib Dems would say to the Prime -- Deputy Prime Minister

:25:33. > :25:36.on Call Clegg. Our phone in this week is the challenges facing the

:25:37. > :25:40.Liberal Democrats. They are rock bottom in the polls and have dire

:25:41. > :25:45.results in the local and European elections so what can the party do

:25:46. > :25:50.to turn things around? Get in touch, we are going straight to line

:25:51. > :25:56.one and Gareth. How much is a problem of that loss of local

:25:57. > :26:00.support? It is a massive problem because those are the building

:26:01. > :26:06.blocks of our success. The councillors who gets the case work

:26:07. > :26:12.done are also the people who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock

:26:13. > :26:17.on doors. Interesting, and it is not just local support the party has

:26:18. > :26:21.lost, is it? In the next general election there are some big-name

:26:22. > :26:30.Liberal Democrat MPs standing down like Malcolm Bruce and Ming

:26:31. > :26:36.Campbell, how much of a problem will that be? That is a real challenge

:26:37. > :26:41.and we have some of our brightest and best reaching an age of maturity

:26:42. > :26:46.at the same moment so that is quite an additional test in what will be a

:26:47. > :26:48.difficult election anyway. So how does the party need to position

:26:49. > :26:51.itself to win back support? Let s does the party need to position

:26:52. > :26:57.itself to win back support? Let's go to Chris online free, has the party

:26:58. > :27:06.got its strategy right? There is always a danger of appearing to be a

:27:07. > :27:09.party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a

:27:10. > :27:12.of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the

:27:13. > :27:16.next election because if we don't next election because if we don t

:27:17. > :27:22.people will vote for the Tories. Nick, what do you think of the

:27:23. > :27:27.party's message at the moment? I have had a look at early draft of

:27:28. > :27:32.our manifesto and there is some good stuff in there but the authors are

:27:33. > :27:38.probably too interested in what may think we have achieved in the last

:27:39. > :28:08.five years and not really focusing on what the voters will want to be

:28:09. > :28:10.hearing about the next five years. Perhaps they should get out more and

:28:11. > :28:14.test some of these messages on the doorstep. So you want to see the top

:28:15. > :28:19.ranks of the party on the doorstep. Gareth online one also wants to make

:28:20. > :28:23.a point about the manifesto. There is clearly a problem somewhere near

:28:24. > :28:28.the top and there are some people who seem to be obsessed with power

:28:29. > :28:29.for power's sake, and happy with a timid offer but the Liberal

:28:30. > :28:31.Democrats want to change things. timid offer but the Liberal

:28:32. > :28:37.Democrats want to change things We are running out of time so let's try

:28:38. > :28:42.to squeeze one more call in. What are your thoughts on the long-term

:28:43. > :28:46.future of the party? I think serious long-term danger is that the party

:28:47. > :28:51.could be relegated to the fringes of the UK and no longer being a

:28:52. > :28:55.national party. We have gone back decades if that happens because for

:28:56. > :28:58.many years we have been represented in every part of the country at some

:28:59. > :29:01.level and we have got to rescue ourselves from that. Some

:29:02. > :29:05.interesting views but we are going to have to wait until the general

:29:06. > :29:10.election next year to find out how well the Lib Dems face up to these

:29:11. > :29:13.challenges. Thanks for listening, we are going to finish with an old

:29:14. > :29:16.classic now. # I'm sorry, I'm sorry... #.

:29:17. > :29:20.Nick Clegg, welcome to the programme. I want to come onto your

:29:21. > :29:24.situation in a minute but as you will have seen in the papers, there

:29:25. > :29:26.is mounting concern over and historic Westminster paedophile

:29:27. > :29:28.ring, and files relating to it mysteriously disappearing. Why are

:29:29. > :29:33.you against a full public enquiry into this? I wouldn't rule anything

:29:34. > :29:40.out. I think we should do anything it takes to uncover this and achieve

:29:41. > :29:59.justice. delivered, even all these many years

:30:00. > :30:03.later. How do you do it? There is an inquiry in the Home Office about

:30:04. > :30:07.what's happened to these documents, serious questions need to be asked

:30:08. > :30:10.about what happened in the Home Office and those questions need to

:30:11. > :30:14.be answered. There are inquiries in the BBC, in the NHS and most

:30:15. > :30:18.importantly of all the police are looking into the places where this

:30:19. > :30:25.abuse was alleged to have taken place. All I would say is, let's

:30:26. > :30:31.make sure that justice is delivered, truth is uncovered and I think that

:30:32. > :30:35.the way to do that, as we have seen, is by allowing the police to get on

:30:36. > :30:39.with their work. You say that, but there are only seven police involved

:30:40. > :30:42.in this inquiry. There are 195 involved in the hacking

:30:43. > :30:48.investigations. We can both agree that child abuse is more important

:30:49. > :30:51.and serious than hacking. The Home Office, there are reports that Home

:30:52. > :30:55.Office officials may have been mentioned in the dossier, people

:30:56. > :30:59.don't trust people to investigate themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept

:31:00. > :31:01.that we need to make sure that - themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept

:31:02. > :31:03.that we need to make sure that and that we need to make sure that - and

:31:04. > :31:04.the police need to make sure that the police investigations are

:31:05. > :31:08.thorough, well resourced. I can t thorough, well resourced. I can't

:31:09. > :31:13.think of anything more horrendous, I can't, than powerful people

:31:14. > :31:17.organising themselves and worse still, this is what is alleged,

:31:18. > :31:21.covering up for each other to abuse the most vulnerable people in

:31:22. > :31:25.society's care - children. But at the end of the day, the only way you

:31:26. > :31:30.can get people in the dock, the only way you can get people charged, is

:31:31. > :31:35.by allowing the prosecuting authorities and the police to do

:31:36. > :31:38.their job. I have an open mind about what other inquiries take place. A

:31:39. > :31:42.number of other inquiries are taking place. I assume any additional

:31:43. > :31:45.inquiries wouldn't be able to second guess or look into the matters which

:31:46. > :31:49.the police are looking into already. All I would say is that people who

:31:50. > :31:52.have information, who want to provide information which they think

:31:53. > :31:56.is relevant to this, please get in touch with the police. Alright.

:31:57. > :32:01.Let's come on to our own inquiry into the state of the Lib Dems. You

:32:02. > :32:06.have attempted to distance yourself and the party from the Tories, but

:32:07. > :32:11.still stay in Government - it is called aggressive differentiation.

:32:12. > :32:17.Why isn't it working? It's not called aggressive differentiation.

:32:18. > :32:20.It is called "coalition". It is two parties who retain different

:32:21. > :32:23.identities, different values, have different aspirations for the

:32:24. > :32:27.future. But during this Parliament have come together because we were

:32:28. > :32:30.facing a unique national emergency back in 2010, the economy was

:32:31. > :32:34.teetering on the edge of a precipice. I'm immensely proud,

:32:35. > :32:37.notwithstanding our political challenges, which are real, I'm

:32:38. > :32:40.immensely proud that the Liberal Democrats, we stepped up to the

:32:41. > :32:44.plate, held our nerve and without the Liberal Democrats, there

:32:45. > :32:47.wouldn't now be that economic recovery which is helping many

:32:48. > :32:53.people across the country. Why aren't you getting any credit for

:32:54. > :32:58.it? Well, we won't get credit if we spend all our time staring at our

:32:59. > :33:03.navals. If it wasn't for the Liberal Democrats, there wouldn't be more

:33:04. > :33:06.jobs now available to people. They don't believe you, they are giving

:33:07. > :33:14.the Tories the credit for the recovery? Well, you might assert

:33:15. > :33:20.that, we will assert and I will shout it from the rooftops that if

:33:21. > :33:23.we had not created the stability by forming this Coalition Government

:33:24. > :33:27.and then hard-wired into the Government's plans, not only the

:33:28. > :33:30.gory job of fixing the public finances, but doing so much more

:33:31. > :33:33.fairly than would have been the case, if the Conservatives had been

:33:34. > :33:38.in Government on their own, they wouldn't have delivered these tax

:33:39. > :33:43.cuts. They wouldn't have delivered the triple lock guarantee for

:33:44. > :33:49.pensions or the pupil premium. OK. Why are you 8% in the polls? Well,

:33:50. > :34:01.because I think where we get our message across - and I am here in my

:34:02. > :34:06.own constituency - this is a constituency where I am a

:34:07. > :34:09.campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot of the information and say we have

:34:10. > :34:13.done a decent thing by going into Government and we have delivered big

:34:14. > :34:18.changes, big reforms which you can touch and see in your school, in

:34:19. > :34:24.your pensions, in your taxes and then people do support us and, in

:34:25. > :34:26.our areas of strength, we were winning against both the

:34:27. > :34:28.Conservative and Labour parties. It Conservative and Labour parties It

:34:29. > :34:32.is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left

:34:33. > :34:36.and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in

:34:37. > :34:41.Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right -

:34:42. > :34:46.having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in

:34:47. > :34:52.our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more

:34:53. > :35:00.support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib

:35:01. > :35:04.Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a

:35:05. > :35:10.National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a

:35:11. > :35:14.National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we

:35:15. > :35:18.have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much

:35:19. > :35:21.time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing

:35:22. > :35:27.that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in

:35:28. > :35:30.challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we

:35:31. > :35:33.have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more

:35:34. > :35:37.Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering

:35:38. > :35:41.before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal

:35:42. > :35:45.reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been

:35:46. > :35:50.setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure

:35:51. > :35:54.teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in

:35:55. > :36:00.school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company

:36:01. > :36:03.from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with

:36:04. > :36:08.education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values

:36:09. > :36:14.that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out

:36:15. > :36:22.and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that

:36:23. > :36:26.you "are toxic on the doorstep". Look, as everybody knows, being the

:36:27. > :36:29.leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into

:36:30. > :36:34.Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because

:36:35. > :36:38.you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of

:36:39. > :36:42.that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken

:36:43. > :36:45.economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that

:36:46. > :36:49.party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say

:36:50. > :36:51.that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a

:36:52. > :36:55.good reason for that. They didn't good reason for that. They didn t

:36:56. > :36:59.win the election. The left say that somehow we have lost our soul when

:37:00. > :37:03.we haven't. That happens day in, day out. Of course that will have some

:37:04. > :37:11.effect. My answer to that is not to buckle to those criticisms, those

:37:12. > :37:17.misplaced Chris -- criticisms from left and right, but to stand up

:37:18. > :37:23.proudly. Is it your intention to fight the next election against an

:37:24. > :37:28.in-out referendum on Europe? Yes. Unless there is major treaty change?

:37:29. > :37:33.Our position hasn't waivered, it won't waiver, we are not going to

:37:34. > :37:36.flip-flop on the issue of the referendum like the Conservatives

:37:37. > :37:39.did. We want an in-out referendum. With ve legislated for the trigger

:37:40. > :37:42.when that will happen, when in u powers are transferred to the

:37:43. > :37:45.European Union. That is what we have said for years. We legislated for

:37:46. > :37:51.that... So no change? No change. that... So no change? No change

:37:52. > :37:54.Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep

:37:55. > :38:01.Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of

:38:02. > :38:07.what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to

:38:08. > :38:10.serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has

:38:11. > :38:14.done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years

:38:15. > :38:17.to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not

:38:18. > :38:23.just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some

:38:24. > :38:28.heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger

:38:29. > :38:33.of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in

:38:34. > :38:43.Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of

:38:44. > :38:48.that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near

:38:49. > :38:53.Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them

:38:54. > :38:57.later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm

:38:58. > :39:01.sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you.

:39:02. > :39:04.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:39:05. > :39:08.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:39:09. > :39:09.for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes,

:39:10. > :39:18.the Week Labour hopes to lead

:39:19. > :39:29.the race to Downing Street `nd make But has the party got

:39:30. > :39:34.the right policies ` and Middlesbrough's Labour MP Andy

:39:35. > :39:41.Macdonald and Durham Conservative councillor Richard Bell join me

:39:42. > :39:45.in the studio. And these people were thrown out

:39:46. > :39:48.of a North East town hall for trying Now the law is changing `

:39:49. > :39:55.but do the new rules go far enough? the North

:39:56. > :39:57.of England is suddenly flavour The Government's ambition to create

:39:58. > :40:01.a "powerhouse" of the north's big This week, the deputy

:40:02. > :40:06.Prime Minister Nick Clegg l`unched something called "Northern Futures"

:40:07. > :40:08.with a call for big, bold ideas to And more enthusiasm

:40:09. > :40:15.for all things northern camd from Chancellor George Osborne who

:40:16. > :40:17.dropped into Simpsons Malt in Berwick to announce more funding

:40:18. > :40:23.for businesses in the North East. This will be the first

:40:24. > :40:25.in the country like this. It is part of our long`term economic

:40:26. > :40:28.plan to support growth in all parts of our country, not just thd

:40:29. > :40:33.north`east as a region, but also in Richard Bell. Less than a year to go

:40:34. > :40:49.until the election the sudddn until the election the sudden

:40:50. > :40:55.Osbourne wants at what the north all the time. What America got got into

:40:56. > :41:00.them? I would like to think is all coordinated but I do not thhnk it

:41:01. > :41:01.is. The Chancellor's visit to Berwick was about countryside growth

:41:02. > :41:04.and the network fund which hs a and the network fund which is a

:41:05. > :41:09.continuation of a pilot that has been running for a couple of years.

:41:10. > :41:11.In my own ward we about to projects supported by that. The aucthon

:41:12. > :41:14.In my own ward we about to projects supported by that. The auction mart

:41:15. > :41:18.has built new business units and created a new business in Middleton.

:41:19. > :41:21.And a gentleman starting a coffee importing and roasting business.

:41:22. > :41:21.And a gentleman starting a coffee importing and roasting business We

:41:22. > :41:23.importing and roasting business. We grow a lot of coughing in tdas,

:41:24. > :41:29.grow a lot of coughing in teas, don't you know. ?23 million for

:41:30. > :41:32.small businesses in role in areas including Gateshead is great news.

:41:33. > :41:36.Site were not except that it is just happening now. A lot of this work

:41:37. > :41:42.has been quietly happening for a year or two. Your site last four

:41:43. > :41:45.years berating this governments for years berating this governmdnts for

:41:46. > :41:46.its lack of interest in the north. You can't complain now wonder

:41:47. > :41:49.its lack of interest in the north. You can't complain now wonddr making

:41:50. > :41:52.a virtue of getting out there? Looe`macro it is a bit late in the

:41:53. > :41:56.late to stop paying attention to the north. It is being abandoned for the

:41:57. > :42:00.duration of this administration. Absolutely it has. George Osborne

:42:01. > :42:04.seems to define the North as stopping at the M 62 until this

:42:05. > :42:08.latest announcement. The concentration on the North of

:42:09. > :42:11.England has been limited and sparse. Four out of five jobs creatdd are in

:42:12. > :42:15.London and the south`east. Why matter the figures are disputes this

:42:16. > :42:19.week when they? That the regional growth fund has done the north`east

:42:20. > :42:21.very good. The reality is that you should be welcoming the fact they

:42:22. > :42:24.are taking this seriously? H take are taking this seriously? H take

:42:25. > :42:26.the interest seriously, I just are taking this seriously? I take

:42:27. > :42:26.the interest seriously, I jtst wish the interest seriously, I just wish

:42:27. > :42:31.it had happened a long time ago We it had happened a long time ago. We

:42:32. > :42:34.have to see what the delivery is. Expressing an interest is OK, but

:42:35. > :42:38.what does it mean? What is the follow`through going to be? That's

:42:39. > :42:42.why have doubts. Richard Bell, that is a good point. There is a lot of

:42:43. > :42:46.speaking but not much commitment. The money for the businesses is

:42:47. > :42:49.welcome. And been put on a high`speed rail line having a

:42:50. > :42:52.Government department moved here. Know, and I think we should be doing

:42:53. > :42:57.more to move civil service jobs and other jobs out of the south`east if

:42:58. > :43:00.we can. I would except that. But it is welcome news. It is churlish to

:43:01. > :43:04.say nothing at happen for a fuel years. Things are happening on the

:43:05. > :43:05.ground, things have been built in my ward and on the back of somd of

:43:06. > :43:09.ward and on the back of some of these grant initiatives. Thdse are

:43:10. > :43:14.being quietly all the time. Look at Hitachi, getting money from the

:43:15. > :43:16.regional growth fund. So it is not fair to say we have been forgotten

:43:17. > :43:21.about. Things happening quietly all about. Things happening quidtly all

:43:22. > :43:24.the time. Maybe the mistake they made was leaving it a bit late.

:43:25. > :43:25.the time. Maybe the mistake they made was leaving it a bit l`te. We

:43:26. > :43:27.will return to that subject later. Now to Labour's plans to help

:43:28. > :43:29.the region's economy grow. This week, the party gave more

:43:30. > :43:32.details of its policy based upon There'll be fewer but stronger

:43:33. > :43:37.local enterprise partnerships. ?30 billion of spending

:43:38. > :43:40.on transport, schools infrastructure and housing

:43:41. > :43:43.will be devolved to city regions While councils willbe able to keep

:43:44. > :43:47.additional business rates they generate, to reinvest

:43:48. > :43:52.in local jobs and business. Those proposals are just

:43:53. > :43:55.the latest in a series of announcements from Labour

:43:56. > :43:58.as it firms up the content of its The party's already committdd itself

:43:59. > :44:01.to ending out`of`work benefits for 18`to`21`year`olds,

:44:02. > :44:04.abolishing the benefit changes it calls the bedroom tax as well

:44:05. > :44:08.as freezing energy bills. So no shortage of ideas `

:44:09. > :44:11.but how much are the party's It's a battleground,

:44:12. > :44:23.a key part of the South and Labour's held the seat since 1997,

:44:24. > :44:29.but they came perilously close to The party's majority of just over

:44:30. > :44:35.1,600 here actually makes it one of the ten most marginal Labour

:44:36. > :44:38.seats in the country. So have they made any progrdss

:44:39. > :44:40.since 2010? Do the shoppers here think they

:44:41. > :44:43.are being sold something sweeter now or do they think they'rd still

:44:44. > :44:47.getting a bit of a bit of a lemon? Time to join the bargain hunters

:44:48. > :44:49.and hawkers, then, to see if they can name anything of

:44:50. > :44:54.the recent slew of Labour policies. Even when, now,

:44:55. > :45:09.we can't afford it because we've got What policy have they got

:45:10. > :45:17.on that though, do you know? So does that worry Labour fhgures

:45:18. > :45:26.in this constituency? It would next May,

:45:27. > :45:31.I think what they're waiting for and slowly hearing are policies from

:45:32. > :45:34.Labour which will address that. So, for example, the freeze on

:45:35. > :45:37.energy prices I think reson`ted very And this week, the idea

:45:38. > :45:44.of repatriating some of the money to local areas rather than it being

:45:45. > :45:47.spent in Westminster, I think, But if

:45:48. > :45:57.the policies are not always cutting Are shoppers and traders sold on

:45:58. > :46:00.Ed Miliband? I'm a Labour man right through,

:46:01. > :46:04.so let?s see what he can do He's alright as a person but he

:46:05. > :46:10.doesn't come across with that extra I don't think is

:46:11. > :46:15.the right man to lead the party. I think David would

:46:16. > :46:17.have been better. Absolute conker, and his brother,

:46:18. > :46:19.yes. He's just got one of those faces I

:46:20. > :46:25.can't get away with, to be fair We could do somebody

:46:26. > :46:32.a bit tougher for Labour. I want Labour to come back

:46:33. > :46:34.in power so I don't mind You can't name any

:46:35. > :46:38.of their policies though? I know, yes,

:46:39. > :46:40.because I've got "baby`brain"! That rather mixed verdict is

:46:41. > :46:47.giving hope to this man. Conservative candidate Will Goodhand

:46:48. > :46:50.believes Labour's lack of appeal could help him win this

:46:51. > :46:53.seat and deliver a Tory Government. They set out saying that thd

:46:54. > :46:55.economic plan that the Conservatives had wasn't going to work

:46:56. > :46:58.and the fact it, it is working. We have had 56,000 more jobs since

:46:59. > :47:02.2010 in the North`East, we have had a thousand fall in the numbdr

:47:03. > :47:05.of people and jobseeker's allowance just in Middlesbrough South and

:47:06. > :47:10.East Cleveland in the past year. And almost in a panic in response,

:47:11. > :47:14.Labour are throwing out policies that are just not credible

:47:15. > :47:17.and people can really see through. With policy announcements coming

:47:18. > :47:22.by the pound from Labour, perhaps they do need more time to

:47:23. > :47:26.filter through to the public. On the evidence of this market day,

:47:27. > :47:34.the party is yet to seal thd deal. So has Labour got the poliches `

:47:35. > :47:37.election and the leader ` Middlesbrough to win

:47:38. > :47:48.the next General Election? Andy McDonald, remarkable isn't a?

:47:49. > :47:53.All this energy on the bedroom freeze in the bedroom tax. Not a

:47:54. > :47:58.mention of any of those. Surprise, disappointed? It is difficult for a

:47:59. > :48:01.lot of people to annunciator and able to tell us what the party

:48:02. > :48:03.policies. The reality is when it policies. The reality is when it

:48:04. > :48:06.comes to polls, the ones whdre we comes to polls, the ones where we

:48:07. > :48:08.have elections, Labour are doing well. We are returning more

:48:09. > :48:12.councillors and gaining mord job of councillors and gaining mord job of

:48:13. > :48:16.councils. So when it matters, it fills us through. Him as matter that

:48:17. > :48:19.these people are taking these things in. People have to understand what

:48:20. > :48:23.you are standing for an uttdrly get you are standing for an uttdrly get

:48:24. > :48:25.that from them. the video also showed there was some desird to

:48:26. > :48:25.that from them. the video also showed there was some desire to vote

:48:26. > :48:27.Labour as well. So I think ht showed there was some desird to vote

:48:28. > :48:29.Labour as well. So I think it is Labour as well. So I think it is

:48:30. > :48:31.filtering through even though people can't annunciator each and dvery

:48:32. > :48:33.can't annunciator each and every policy. But they are getting the

:48:34. > :48:36.message. Richard Bell, there is some message. Richard Bell, therd is some

:48:37. > :48:38.truth in because some of those people I spoke to, although they

:48:39. > :48:44.could name policies, they s`id they could name policies, they said they

:48:45. > :48:48.were in favour of Labour. There was a great enthusiasm for David Cameron

:48:49. > :48:51.and the Conservatives either. , maybe not. The difference is that

:48:52. > :48:52.Cameron has shown repeatedlx that maybe not. The difference is that

:48:53. > :48:55.Cameron has shown repeatedly that is Cameron has shown repeatedly that is

:48:56. > :48:58.capable of taking tough dechsions and his decisive and gives strong

:48:59. > :49:02.leadership. I doubt very much weather Ed Miliband is capable of

:49:03. > :49:05.that. Nonpolitical people that I speak to most often say to le he

:49:06. > :49:06.that. Nonpolitical people that I speak to most often say to me he is

:49:07. > :49:08.speak to most often say to le he is a bright bloke but is not like

:49:09. > :49:08.speak to most often say to me he is a bright bloke but is not lhke he's

:49:09. > :49:13.a bright bloke but is not like he's up to the job. We will go on to the

:49:14. > :49:16.individual in a moment. You are a councillor in Durham so presumably

:49:17. > :49:22.you are welcome that Labour has proposed radical idea this week to

:49:23. > :49:27.transfer powers? If you talk about the Adonis review, broadly, I would

:49:28. > :49:30.welcome them. They are building on proposals and ideas Michael

:49:31. > :49:34.Heseltine had a of years ago. Won but the Conservatives didn't

:49:35. > :49:37.implement them. Looe`macro the Conservatives in this region will be

:49:38. > :49:41.glad to see funding devolved centrally, so, yes, I'm not saying

:49:42. > :49:46.we would not welcome some of that devolution that has been mentioned.

:49:47. > :49:52.Greg Stone, it is a policy that is maybe not taught about in the pub,

:49:53. > :49:56.but it is radicalism to? It is good stuff, but it is a continuation of

:49:57. > :49:58.what the coalition has been doing. Blake has been involved with giving

:49:59. > :50:04.more power to Newcastle and Sunderland and that recognition that

:50:05. > :50:07.we can't just have a centralised London ` dominated political system

:50:08. > :50:11.and economic system, I think is filtering through to all parties. It

:50:12. > :50:12.has been the case for too long now include in the last Government, that

:50:13. > :50:16.include in the last Governmdnt, that the North East, given the powers to

:50:17. > :50:18.do what it can to transform the economy, transport, things like

:50:19. > :50:21.housing, it should not be taken in housing, it should not be t`ken in

:50:22. > :50:22.Whitehall. It should be taken housing, it should not be taken in

:50:23. > :50:23.Whitehall. It should be takdn in housing, it should not be t`ken in

:50:24. > :50:26.Whitehall. It should be taken in the regions. But given that, th`t

:50:27. > :50:28.enthusiasm for the north`east that you are showing, Nick Clegg this

:50:29. > :50:35.week I looked in the news release he week I looked in the news rdlease he

:50:36. > :50:41.had and is meant as a Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds. No mention

:50:42. > :50:46.Sunderland Newcastle Carlisle. We must evolve to the cities and create

:50:47. > :50:51.the economic growth we need. That is a good thing. Won but is it more

:50:52. > :50:54.focused on M 62 corridor rather than think about the north`east? Is a

:50:55. > :51:02.story had about John Prescott's Northern Way, the original cons back

:51:03. > :51:05.that macro concept for that... I think the job for the North East in

:51:06. > :51:08.particular for the north`east combine authority would is not

:51:09. > :51:12.dominated by Labour council leaders is how they can punch their weight

:51:13. > :51:15.and make and use these new powers and resources to transform the

:51:16. > :51:18.region's economy and make that happen. The evidence in recent years

:51:19. > :51:25.happen. The evidence in recdnt years has not been that good on that

:51:26. > :51:28.front. Andy, let us and so the criticism of Ed Miliband in the

:51:29. > :51:30.film. Nearly people are not getting the message cause they do like the

:51:31. > :51:33.the message cause they do lhke the messenger? Has it got the right

:51:34. > :51:34.messenger? Has it got the rhght values, is the intellectually up to

:51:35. > :51:38.it and canny persuade people? I it and canny persuade peopld? I

:51:39. > :51:40.think he can. I think Yaz all the qualities we need for a Prile

:51:41. > :51:44.qualities we need for a Prime Minister is not unusual for a leader

:51:45. > :51:48.of the opposition to be lagging behind a Prime Minister in opinion

:51:49. > :51:52.polls. But when it comes to the real poll, that can be turned around. And

:51:53. > :51:57.we are seeing consistent support for labour across elections when it

:51:58. > :52:00.matters. Is this specific about the Adonis proposals. He talked about

:52:01. > :52:02.local enterprise partnerships. We have two in this region, ond in

:52:03. > :52:06.have two in this region, one in Seaside, one of the north`e`st.

:52:07. > :52:08.have two in this region, ond in Seaside, one of the north`east. I've

:52:09. > :52:12.heard that before but I fairweather real concentration is and where they

:52:13. > :52:15.overlap, there are lots of `reas in overlap, there are lots of areas in

:52:16. > :52:17.the country where there is no distinction. At least in the

:52:18. > :52:21.distinction. At least in thd north`east of England we have two

:52:22. > :52:25.distinct conurbations. So would you begin a merger? I'm quite content

:52:26. > :52:27.with how we have gone about this in the Tees Valley. I think there is a

:52:28. > :52:31.the Tees Valley. I think thdre is a momentum there and are some

:52:32. > :52:37.successes that we can build on if we can devolve money and power to these

:52:38. > :52:41.sub regions, real money and real power, then we can make a

:52:42. > :52:44.difference. We will have to think very carefully before we go ahead

:52:45. > :52:49.with a full merger. Bitch about, is there not a danger in all these

:52:50. > :52:53.proposals as an ally County Durham gets overshadowed by either urban

:52:54. > :52:57.areas such as Teeside by Tyneside? I'd been so. All areas are

:52:58. > :52:59.benefiting. The old north`e`st benefiting. The old north`e`st

:53:00. > :53:02.structure which was abolished by structure which was abolishdd by

:53:03. > :53:06.this Government, and I may know Pollard is flat, was big,

:53:07. > :53:07.bureaucratic and expensive. They give a lot of projects to Newcastle.

:53:08. > :53:11.give a lot of projects to Ndwcastle. If you had on to the south of the

:53:12. > :53:14.region, the Tees Valley, people feel that they did not get their fair

:53:15. > :53:18.crack of the whip down therd. So I agree that the power structure is

:53:19. > :53:19.agree that the power structtre is the way forward. And all the local

:53:20. > :53:28.the way forward. And all thd local authorities are now working closely

:53:29. > :53:33.together. Ed Miliband, he's not much as much a busted flush as Nhck Clegg

:53:34. > :53:37.is the? Nick Clegg is do good job in the national interest. He has put

:53:38. > :53:39.that had a party interest and I think you look at the outcole of

:53:40. > :53:42.think you look at the outcome of this general election, the key

:53:43. > :53:50.decision will be on weather the country is correct in the ptblic

:53:51. > :53:52.finances that Labour left us. I think the former show their Miliband

:53:53. > :53:53.is very much a? Is not prime is very much a? Is not prime

:53:54. > :53:58.ministerial. There is a hugd amount ministerial. There is a huge amount

:53:59. > :54:01.of doubt in the public out `` about his policies. There are huge

:54:02. > :54:02.his policies. There are hugd divisions in the shadow cabinet in

:54:03. > :54:07.Westminster, too. For the last 25 years we've been

:54:08. > :54:11.able to switch on TV and watch our But if you wanted to see

:54:12. > :54:15.your local councillor in action, you Try to film a meeting or usd social

:54:16. > :54:21.media in the council chamber and you Well,

:54:22. > :54:24.those days appear to have gone after Local Government Secretary Dric

:54:25. > :54:26.Pickles threw his not inconsiderable More doctors, more nurses, lore

:54:27. > :54:31.midwives, more people being treated. And is official,

:54:32. > :54:34.the best NHS in the world. The cut and thrust of

:54:35. > :54:36.Prime Minister's Questions. It's this party that created the NHS

:54:37. > :54:42.and every time we have to s`ve it But while the mother

:54:43. > :54:48.of all Parliaments has being on screen for 25 years,

:54:49. > :54:51.many local councils have not been That is soon to change with new

:54:52. > :54:57.legislation about to become law So for the first time, we can

:54:58. > :55:00.bring you these exciting scdnes This has been

:55:01. > :55:12.the first meeting which Middlesbrough council allowdd to be

:55:13. > :55:15.filmed, and, while this meeting has been very calm, a previous `ttempt

:55:16. > :55:18.by people to record a meeting ended Middlesbrough Town Hall in May

:55:19. > :55:28.of this year, and an argument over somebody filming a meeting that led

:55:29. > :55:30.to the chamber being cleared All part of

:55:31. > :55:33.a long campaign to get Middlesbrough What is wrong with the membdrs

:55:34. > :55:38.of the public actually filming the That have paid a good sum of money

:55:39. > :55:45.to represent them ` being open? Very simply,

:55:46. > :55:59.it's democracy we want to see. Middlesbrough Council says ht had in

:56:00. > :56:01.the past been concerned about the potential for selective misleading

:56:02. > :56:04.or mischievous editing of footage. Now it is embracing change

:56:05. > :56:06.and allowing filming and putting a recording of leetings

:56:07. > :56:08.online following some the councils Where Middlesbrough may havd

:56:09. > :56:16.resisted, Newcastle has embraced. For two years, it has been

:56:17. > :56:19.the filming their meetings `nd has When hundreds of people wanted to

:56:20. > :56:24.come to hear decisions being made and hear that their point of view

:56:25. > :56:28.was being put forward, it was really important that we enabled many more

:56:29. > :56:32.people ` who clearly could not be in the council chamber and wanted to

:56:33. > :56:36.be part of that debate ` could The act, giving people

:56:37. > :56:41.the right to film and use social media from council meetings, also

:56:42. > :56:43.includes some of the public bodies, But will people really find watching

:56:44. > :56:48.council meetings riveting? I was asked a few months ago

:56:49. > :56:53.by a councillor I bumped into in the town centre `

:56:54. > :57:09.why do I go to these meetings? Add do think will rival the

:57:10. > :57:14.x`height! Middlesbrough councillor to be dragged and kicked into

:57:15. > :57:19.allowing them to format meeting. What are be got to hide? personally,

:57:20. > :57:22.nothing! I've always thought we should film Council meetings, I

:57:23. > :57:24.think it is a very welcome move. think it is a very welcome move.

:57:25. > :57:29.When I was a council in the 90s I When I was a council in the 90s, I

:57:30. > :57:33.thought then it might be a good a dear that macro idea to publish

:57:34. > :57:37.these things. Now we have social media, it makes it easier to but it

:57:38. > :57:41.on websites and the rest of it. So I think it is a step forward. See want

:57:42. > :57:47.to thank Eric pickles was striking a blow for democracy? Good for him.

:57:48. > :57:51.Richard Bell, do have any concerns about this? Meetings could be

:57:52. > :57:52.hijacked potentially when people are hijacked potentially when people are

:57:53. > :57:54.cameras are there? Selectivd cameras are there? Selective

:57:55. > :58:00.extracts it is not without `ny extracts it is not without any

:58:01. > :58:03.danger? I have reservations. We'll welcome people coming along and

:58:04. > :58:07.filming. But you played thehr filming. But you played thehr

:58:08. > :58:08.extracts from Prime Minister's Questions, and that is probably

:58:09. > :58:08.extracts from Prime Minister's Questions, and that is prob`bly the

:58:09. > :58:13.least productive part of the least productive part of the

:58:14. > :58:17.Parliamentary week. It is a football match, throwing rocks at each other

:58:18. > :58:18.kind of mentality. The real work of Parliament does get televised

:58:19. > :58:21.because it is boring and tale. I because it is boring and tame. I

:58:22. > :58:27.fear there is a danger that people will home in on the juicy or the

:58:28. > :58:33.outrageous. A typical counchl outrageous. A typical counchl

:58:34. > :58:39.meeting last over two hours and that is not gripping television. There is

:58:40. > :58:43.a point here, isn't there? Letting cameras into the Commons has not

:58:44. > :58:45.enhance the reputation of MPs has its? the point is well made about

:58:46. > :58:47.select committees and elsewhere, its? the point is well made about

:58:48. > :58:52.select committees and elsewhere, and of course, quite frankly, it is

:58:53. > :58:57.tedious. It is a bit like televising trials, criminal trials. A lot of

:58:58. > :59:00.the work is dull and it is not good for television. Nevertheless, there

:59:01. > :59:05.is a democracy point here and I think it is superb that people can

:59:06. > :59:08.see what the politicians and elected representatives are doing in their

:59:09. > :59:16.names. Should Labour Day to step further and open up hospital trust

:59:17. > :59:19.meetings? Let's do this first and see how we get on. I think xou

:59:20. > :59:19.meetings? Let's do this first and see how we get on. I think you run

:59:20. > :59:21.see how we get on. I think xou run the risk of creating a situation in

:59:22. > :59:24.the risk of creating a situ`tion in which everything will be televised

:59:25. > :59:29.and then it may close down some frank and open debates that people

:59:30. > :59:33.testing each other out in a way they might not want to do. Let's start

:59:34. > :59:37.going down the road and see how far we get. But putting council meetings

:59:38. > :59:43.on the web is an excellent step forward, I think. Bead at the end

:59:44. > :59:44.was good to watch them do you? I was told at our last full counchl

:59:45. > :59:46.meeting which, if I have to say, told at our last full council

:59:47. > :59:55.meeting which, if I have to say was a lively one. The numbers of people

:59:56. > :59:56.following steadily fell through because of the meeting. Does that

:59:57. > :00:01.mean you should raise game `ddict? mean you should raise game `ddict?

:00:02. > :00:07.Maybe will make people make shorter, sharper speeches? brats. But a lot

:00:08. > :00:11.of business is relatively dtll, it needs to be thorough and it needs to

:00:12. > :00:12.be done diligently. It is a make for exciting television as a spdctator

:00:13. > :00:19.exciting television as a spectator sport. What would you say to Eric

:00:20. > :00:21.pickles? I would say councils have nothing to hide let us try them and

:00:22. > :00:22.if it works, we could look at if it works, we could look `t

:00:23. > :00:27.extending it further. You have to extending it further. You h`ve to

:00:28. > :00:30.make sure that people have the opportunity to have frank

:00:31. > :00:34.conversations and fly ideas and not everything that is aired in a public

:00:35. > :00:38.body is necessarily going to be a firm proposal. Again, it is back to

:00:39. > :00:43.this business of selective reporting. If you're having to

:00:44. > :00:45.stream hours of it, it may not be quite interesting.

:00:46. > :00:48.Now, a committee of MPs travelled to South Tyneside on Friday to hear

:00:49. > :00:50.from people using food banks and from those running them.

:00:51. > :00:53.Here's Mark Denton with that and the rest of the week's news

:00:54. > :01:06.Nestle is to become the first major money factor to commit to paint the

:01:07. > :01:09.money factor to commit to p`int the living wage. The firm, which has its

:01:10. > :01:12.confectionery headquarters hn York confectionery headquarters in York

:01:13. > :01:18.already plays that Rocca pays a living wage to its 8000 employees.

:01:19. > :01:20.It all up in a Saint agency workers and contract staff. Cumbria county

:01:21. > :01:22.council's Chief Executive was pay council's Chief Executive w`s pay

:01:23. > :01:23.more than ?100,000 widgets at the more than ?100,000 widgets at the

:01:24. > :01:28.retirement last year. She ldft retirement last year. She left

:01:29. > :01:32.council last May and the details of a payoff which includes pension

:01:33. > :01:34.contributions were revealed this week by BBC radio Cumbria. An

:01:35. > :01:37.week by BBC radio Cumbria. @n enquiry by MPs into hunger food

:01:38. > :01:38.poverty came to South Tyneshde on Friday to hear from people using

:01:39. > :01:44.Friday to hear from people tsing food banks. The all`party group

:01:45. > :01:48.includes this MP. we want to look at the rise of food poverty in the UK

:01:49. > :01:52.and makes recommendations to the Government about what needs to

:01:53. > :01:54.change. Won finally, the Northeast's new Euro MPs for Labour

:01:55. > :01:57.and UKIP have taken their seats Northeast's new Euro MPs for Labour

:01:58. > :01:58.and UKIP have taken their sdats in and UKIP have taken their seats in

:01:59. > :02:02.the European Parliament in Strasbourg.

:02:03. > :02:07.I'm off to don my Lycra and catch up with the Tour ` I think they've

:02:08. > :02:12.But we'll be back same time, same place next week for

:02:13. > :02:16.progress in London was being made before that started. I wish we had

:02:17. > :02:20.longer for that. It is all over to you.

:02:21. > :02:22.What will Thursday's mass public sector strike achieve?

:02:23. > :02:24.Has David Cameron's anti-Juncker attacks clawed back support

:02:25. > :02:28.And is Alan Johnson really thinking about challenging Ed Miliband

:02:29. > :02:48.We will start with the strikes, Matt Hancock was hardline in the

:02:49. > :02:53.head-to-head that he did with the TUC. I guess that the Tory internal

:02:54. > :02:58.polling and focus groups must be telling them that there are votes in

:02:59. > :03:06.taking a tough line? There is that and there is the fact that they are

:03:07. > :03:12.now much more confident on any economic policy two or three years

:03:13. > :03:15.ago. They shied away from it because the economy was shrinking, there was

:03:16. > :03:19.still a danger that public sector job losses would lead to higher

:03:20. > :03:25.unemployment overall. Now, the economy is growing, they have a good

:03:26. > :03:29.story to sell about employment so they are much more bolshy and brazen

:03:30. > :03:34.than they were two or three years ago. They know that it always causes

:03:35. > :03:40.problems for Labour. Labour is naturally sympathetic to the public

:03:41. > :03:45.sector workers, pay being squeezed, they are striking to make an issue

:03:46. > :03:50.of it. And yet they can't quite come out and give the unions 100% Labour

:03:51. > :03:54.support? Exactly. You saw Tristram Hunt on the Marr Show this morning

:03:55. > :03:56.squirming to support the idea of strikes, but not this particular

:03:57. > :04:00.strike. It was always the question that gets asked to Labour - who

:04:01. > :04:04.funds you? That is a real problem. The bit that gets me is they trail

:04:05. > :04:09.this ef are I time there is a -- every time there is a strike, this

:04:10. > :04:13.idea of cutting it to ballots and local election turnout was a third.

:04:14. > :04:17.Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London with 38% turnout. We need to

:04:18. > :04:26.talk about-turnout across our democracy. That is an easy rebuttal

:04:27. > :04:30.for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was hardline about changing the strike

:04:31. > :04:33.law. When you asked him the question, if you are not going to

:04:34. > :04:38.stabilise the public finances till 2018, does this mean the pay freeze

:04:39. > :04:43.or no real term pay increase in the public sector will increase till

:04:44. > :04:49.2018, h e was inner vous on that one. -- he was nervous on that one.

:04:50. > :04:51.This strike is different to those strikes that took place in 2010. At

:04:52. > :04:54.strikes that took place in 2010 At that time, the TUC and the Labour

:04:55. > :05:00.Leadership thought there was going to be a great movement out there,

:05:01. > :05:04.not a kind of 1926 movement, but a great movement out there. This time

:05:05. > :05:11.round, I think the climate is different. Ed Miliband talking about

:05:12. > :05:15.wage increases being outstripped by inflation and people not seeing the

:05:16. > :05:23.recovery coming through into their pay packets. Slightly more tricky

:05:24. > :05:27.territory for the Tories. If The Labour machine cannot make something

:05:28. > :05:34.out of Matt Hancock telling this programme there will be no increase

:05:35. > :05:37.in pay for workers in the public sector till 2018, they have a

:05:38. > :05:40.problem? They do have a problem They have to say always that they

:05:41. > :05:45.would not just turn the money taps on. That is the dance that you are

:05:46. > :05:48.locked in all the time. Can we all agree that Alan Johnson is not going

:05:49. > :05:57.to stand against Ed Miliband this side of the election? Some

:05:58. > :05:58.politicians are cynical enough. I don't think Alan Johnson is one.

:05:59. > :06:02.politicians are cynical enough. I don't think Alan Johnson is one Do

:06:03. > :06:06.we agree? There is nothing in it for Labour and certainly not for Alan

:06:07. > :06:11.Johnson. No way. It is the last thing he would want to do. There are

:06:12. > :06:14.some desperate members going around trying to find a stalking horse.

:06:15. > :06:19.Alan Johnson will not be their man. He has more important things to do

:06:20. > :06:24.on a Thursday night on BBC One! Isn't it something about the febrile

:06:25. > :06:29.state of the Labour Party that Labour, some Labour backbenchers or

:06:30. > :06:34.in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the idea of this nonsense? If there was

:06:35. > :06:37.a time to do it, maybe it was in the middle of the Parliament. With ten

:06:38. > :06:41.months left, you are stuck with the leader you chose in 2010. I remember

:06:42. > :06:49.them failing to understand this in January of 2010 when there was that

:06:50. > :07:01.last push against Gordon Brown. Five months before an election, they were

:07:02. > :07:05.trying to do something. The deputy Leader of the Labour Party had

:07:06. > :07:12.something to do with it. There is deep unease about Ed Miliband. There

:07:13. > :07:16.are problems but Alan Johnson is not the man. I think there is no chance

:07:17. > :07:19.of it! If the most recent polls are to be

:07:20. > :07:21.believed, David Cameron appears to have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' -

:07:22. > :07:25.clawing back some support from UKIP after he very publicly opposed the

:07:26. > :07:28.appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker to the post of EU Commission

:07:29. > :07:31.president. Last week Nigel Farage took his newly enlarged UKIP

:07:32. > :07:34.contingent to Strasbourg for the first session

:07:35. > :07:53.of the new European Parliament. These two gentlemen have nothing to

:07:54. > :07:58.say today. It was the usual dull, looking back to a model invented 50

:07:59. > :08:01.years ago and we are the ones that want democracy, we are the ones that

:08:02. > :08:06.want nation state, we are the ones that want a global future for our

:08:07. > :08:14.countries, not to be trapped inside this museum. Thank you. I can see we

:08:15. > :08:21.will be covering more of the European Parliament at last!

:08:22. > :08:23.It's rumoured he's likely to stand in the next general election in the

:08:24. > :08:26.Kent constituency of Thanet South, currently held by the Conservatives.

:08:27. > :08:28.Last week the Conservatives selected their candidate for the seat -

:08:29. > :08:30.Craig McKinlay - a former deputy leader of UKIP.

:08:31. > :08:41.Did you get the short straw, you have got a seat that Nigel Farage is

:08:42. > :08:47.probably going to fight? Not in the slightest. It is a seat that I know

:08:48. > :08:50.well. It is a seat that there's obvious euro scepticism there and my

:08:51. > :08:55.qualities are right for that seat. UKIP got some very good... What are

:08:56. > :09:00.your qualities? Deep-seated conservatism, I was a founder of

:09:01. > :09:06.UKIP, I wrote the script back in 1992. My heart is Conservative

:09:07. > :09:12.values. They are best put out to the public by me in South Thanet. It

:09:13. > :09:17.would be ridiculous if Nigel chose that seat. We need a building block

:09:18. > :09:19.of people like myself to form a Government if we are going to have

:09:20. > :09:23.that referendum that is long overdue. I don't think he's got the

:09:24. > :09:28.luxury of losing somebody who is very similar in views to him. He

:09:29. > :09:32.would be best look looking elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to

:09:33. > :09:37.stand in your seat, would you? It would seem to make very little

:09:38. > :09:40.sense. People would say what is UKIP all about if it's fighting people

:09:41. > :09:44.who have got a similar view to them? We do need to build a majority

:09:45. > :09:48.Government for the Conservatives next year because only us are

:09:49. > :09:53.offering that clear in-out referendum. I want to be one of

:09:54. > :09:58.those building blocks that is part of that renegotiation that we will

:09:59. > :10:03.put to public in a referendum. Sounds to me like if the choice is

:10:04. > :10:10.between you and Nigel Farage next May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle

:10:11. > :10:12.Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all. May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle

:10:13. > :10:14.Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all The Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all. The

:10:15. > :10:18.danger to this country is another Labour Government. That is one of

:10:19. > :10:22.the main reasons that I left UKIP in 2005 because that last five years of

:10:23. > :10:27.the Labour Government was the most dangerous to the fundamentals of

:10:28. > :10:36.Britain that we have ever seen. I'm happy with the Conservatives. I have

:10:37. > :10:43.full Conservative values. I am a Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining

:10:44. > :10:51.us. The Westminster bubble yet again, which has a herd mentality, a

:10:52. > :10:58.bubble with a herd mentality, it got it wrong yet again. Mr Cameron's

:10:59. > :11:03.isolated, he is useless at diplomacy, all of which may be true,

:11:04. > :11:06.but the British people liked it and his backbenchers liked it? True.

:11:07. > :11:10.Although some of us would say it is possible... You are speaking for the

:11:11. > :11:14.bubble? I'm speaking for my segment of the bubble. Some of us argued

:11:15. > :11:27.that he got it wrong diplomatically and it would be wrong politically.

:11:28. > :11:32.It will be the passage of time. We saw UKIP decline between the 20 4

:11:33. > :11:37.European elections and the 2005 General. You would expect something

:11:38. > :11:41.similar to happen this time round. The question is how far low do they

:11:42. > :11:46.fall? They are still registering 12-15% in the opinion polls. They

:11:47. > :11:50.are. When Mr Cameron wielded his veto which again the Westminster

:11:51. > :11:54.bubble said it's terrible, it is embarrassing, he overtook Labour in

:11:55. > :11:59.the polls for a while doing that. He's had a Juncker bounce. If you

:12:00. > :12:03.were a strategist, would you not conclude the more Euro-sceptic I am,

:12:04. > :12:14.the better it is for me in the polls? In the short-term, yes. This

:12:15. > :12:17.is the short-term thinking we are supposed to despise. The electricion

:12:18. > :12:21.is very clever for a different -- is very clever for a different -

:12:22. > :12:26.the selection is very clever for a different reason. It is this

:12:27. > :12:29.anti-London feeling in Thanet South. He is a councillor, he grew up in

:12:30. > :12:32.the constituency. He is a chartered accountant. He is somebody who can

:12:33. > :12:36.be seen to be a champion of local people. If they had parachuted in a

:12:37. > :12:40.special adviser, they would be in real trouble. He wants to get out...

:12:41. > :12:44.This is the third representative of the bubble? He wants to get out of

:12:45. > :12:48.the European Union which David Cameron doesn't want to do. It was

:12:49. > :12:52.interesting for that statement to MPs on Monday, there were mild

:12:53. > :12:58.Euro-sceptics who said, "I can't take this." The Speaker said can the

:12:59. > :13:03.baying mob, the Conservative MPs, quieten down, please. Ben Bradshaw,

:13:04. > :13:09.the former Minister made it, he said, "I'm reminded when the leader

:13:10. > :13:15.of the Labour Party before Harold Wilson made that famous Euro-sceptic

:13:16. > :13:19.speech and Mrs Gaitskell said darling, the wrong people are

:13:20. > :13:22.cheering." That is the challenge. Thank you, bubbles!

:13:23. > :13:26.The Daily Politics is back at its usual Noon time every day

:13:27. > :13:31.And I'll be back here on BBC One next Sunday at 11pm for the last

:13:32. > :13:36.Sunday Politics of the summer - I'll be talking to Scotland's Deputy

:13:37. > :13:44.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.