:00:09. > :00:12.Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering
:00:13. > :00:15.for their annual conference as British politics adjusts to what
:00:16. > :00:53.the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for
:00:54. > :00:59.Scotland's decision to vote 'no means more powers heading north
:01:00. > :01:06.But what about Home Rule for England?
:01:07. > :01:11.Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells
:01:12. > :01:16.us why he is stepping down after losing Thursday's vote. And we've
:01:17. > :01:23.In the North East and Cumbrha: people who want to be
:01:24. > :01:26.Demands for power and money ` but will the region get either
:01:27. > :01:32.And the pollution hotspots where air quality fails European standards.
:01:33. > :01:46.powers and more freedom to spend. But what is the next devolution step
:01:47. > :01:49.for the capital? With me, the best and brightest political panel in the
:01:50. > :01:53.business, at least that is what they pay me to say every week. Nick Watt,
:01:54. > :01:59.Helen Lewis and, this week, we have done some devolution ourselves to
:02:00. > :02:04.other areas, and we have Sam Coates from the times. The union survived,
:02:05. > :02:07.but only at the cost of more powers for the Scottish parliament and
:02:08. > :02:11.enshrining the formula that gives Scotland a privileged position when
:02:12. > :02:17.it comes to public spending, which has MPs on both sides of the Commons
:02:18. > :02:21.of in arms. The Scottish question has been answered for now. Suddenly,
:02:22. > :02:32.the English question takes centre stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It
:02:33. > :02:35.has a grubby feel, when that vow was put to the Scottish people, that
:02:36. > :02:41.they hoped would swing the vote there was nothing about English only
:02:42. > :02:45.votes. It was unconditional? The Tory proposal did talk very core
:02:46. > :02:48.justly about looking at the proposals by a former clerk of the
:02:49. > :02:57.House of Commons that looked at this issue. That was very cautious. -
:02:58. > :03:00.cautiously. These proposals will not get through Westminster unless David
:03:01. > :03:04.Cameron addresses the English-only issue. You look at people like Chris
:03:05. > :03:07.Grayling in the Sunday Telegraph. Alistair Darling on the Andrew Marr
:03:08. > :03:11.Show said you could not have a link between what you are giving Holyrood
:03:12. > :03:21.and English-only MPs. Back on says, is welshing on the deal. -- comic he
:03:22. > :03:28.They were furious that he gave away these tax powers and inscribed the
:03:29. > :03:37.Barnett formula. They said they weren't going to vote for it. It is
:03:38. > :03:40.a shameless piece of opportunism. Now they can say that Labour are the
:03:41. > :03:44.ones that don't trust you and don't want to give you more powers. He
:03:45. > :03:48.knows it is going to be a tight timetable. The idea of getting a
:03:49. > :03:52.draft of this out by Burns Night, most people would say, given they
:03:53. > :03:55.had six years to set up Scottish parliament, the idea we will solve
:03:56. > :04:03.these huge constitutional questions in four months is absurd. But they
:04:04. > :04:09.don't care about the constitutional questions, the one they care about
:04:10. > :04:13.is English votes? There is a simple reason they won that. If you look at
:04:14. > :04:18.the MPs in England alone, the Tories have a majority of 59, an
:04:19. > :04:21.overwhelming bias, and if you strip out Wales Scotland and Northern
:04:22. > :04:24.Ireland, so this has become a partisan issue. The question is
:04:25. > :04:30.whether David Cameron can follow through on the promise. He said he
:04:31. > :04:35.would link the two Scottish powers, but it's not clear you will get
:04:36. > :04:39.either before the general election. It's not but the purpose is to cause
:04:40. > :04:45.Labour Party discomfort, and it is. You can see with date -- Ed Miliband
:04:46. > :04:48.this morning, they find it very hard to answer the question, why
:04:49. > :04:54.shouldn't there be English votes for English laws? Ed Miliband this
:04:55. > :04:59.morning was saying how London MPs get to vote on London transport and
:05:00. > :05:03.English MPs don't outside of London and it is confusing, but Labour is
:05:04. > :05:07.in a difficult position. They were before the Prime Minister made his
:05:08. > :05:11.announcement. The yes side triumphed in Glasgow, the largest city in
:05:12. > :05:13.Scotland, a Labour heartland, and the Prime Minister is saying that if
:05:14. > :05:17.Labour don't agree to this the Prime Minister is saying that if
:05:18. > :05:22.handing a gift to the SNP, the Prime Minister is saying that if
:05:23. > :05:38.Labour voters would vote for to see the Prime Minister is saying that if
:05:39. > :05:42.unarguable. If you say her chewing a partisan way, you can't sell it to
:05:43. > :05:46.the country. Ed Miliband is on course to have a majority of about
:05:47. > :05:51.20, and you take the 40 English MPs, and he hasn't got it. This is a
:05:52. > :05:56.coalition government where the Conservatives haven't got really to
:05:57. > :05:59.be in charge, they have put in sweeping laws. Labour should
:06:00. > :07:22.probably take the bullet on this one.
:07:23. > :07:26.probably take the bullet on this spent on social housing in Scotland
:07:27. > :07:29.than in Yorkshire and the North West and the Midlands. The Welsh do very
:07:30. > :07:34.poorly on social services for the elderly. What are we saying? That
:07:35. > :07:39.they need our children, patients and the elderly are worth less than the
:07:40. > :07:44.Scots? That's not the way to have a sustainable solution. I understand
:07:45. > :07:47.the distribution impact of the Barnett Formula, but Westminster
:07:48. > :07:52.politicians are already held in contempt by a lot of people and to
:07:53. > :07:58.rat on such a public pledge would confirm their worst fears. Your
:07:59. > :08:02.leader would have secured the union on a false prospectus. First of
:08:03. > :08:08.all, it's clear from the Ashcroft poll that the offer made in the
:08:09. > :08:10.Scottish newspaper had zero effect and if anything was
:08:11. > :08:13.counter-productive to the overall result because two thirds of swing
:08:14. > :08:18.voters in the last few days voted for independence. But we can't keep
:08:19. > :08:23.proceeding without looking at the promises made to the English. We
:08:24. > :08:27.said in the referendum that we would have English laws -- English votes
:08:28. > :08:30.on English issues. The Liberal Democrats, in their manifesto,
:08:31. > :08:34.pledged to scrap the Barnett Formula. We have to reconcile all of
:08:35. > :08:38.the promises to all parts of the UK, and Alex Salmond talks about a
:08:39. > :08:44.Westminster stitch up, but what he's trying to do is, with gross double
:08:45. > :08:49.standards, is in French stitch up in rapid time, which would be grossly
:08:50. > :08:55.unfair to the rest of the rest of UK -- is contrive stitch up. What is
:08:56. > :09:01.unfair about the current spending formula? The extra money Scotland
:09:02. > :09:06.gets from Barnet, is covered by the oil revenues it sends to London
:09:07. > :09:09.Scotland is only getting back on spending what it pays in tax. There
:09:10. > :09:16.is no analysis out there that suggests it is the same amount.
:09:17. > :09:21.Having voted to stay in the UK. Let me give you the figures. Last year
:09:22. > :09:29.revenues were 4.5 billion, and the Barnett Formula was worth 4.5
:09:30. > :09:32.billion to Scotland. It is awash. A huge amount of British taxpayer
:09:33. > :09:36.investment has gone into extracting North Sea oil, and if we move to a
:09:37. > :09:40.more federal system, we would need to look at things like the
:09:41. > :09:44.allocation of resources, but the Barnett Formula has been lambasted
:09:45. > :09:48.as a national embarrassment and grossly unfair by its Labour Party
:09:49. > :09:53.architect, Lord Barnett. So what we need is to change this mechanism so
:09:54. > :09:57.it is based on need. The irony is, when the Scots allocate Avenue to
:09:58. > :10:01.the -- revenue to their local authorities, it's done on a needs
:10:02. > :10:06.basis, and what is good for Scotland must be good for the rest of
:10:07. > :10:10.Britain. One final question. The Prime Minister is now making his
:10:11. > :10:13.promise of more home rule for Scotland conditional on English
:10:14. > :10:17.votes for English laws. Why didn't he spell out the condition when he
:10:18. > :10:21.made his bow to the Scottish people? Why has this condition been tacked
:10:22. > :10:27.on by the Prime Minister? In the heat of the referendum debate lots
:10:28. > :10:32.of things were said, but the truth is that Parliament must also look at
:10:33. > :10:36.this and make its views known, and English MPs as well. You will find
:10:37. > :10:39.that conservative as well as a lot of Labour MPs would say, we cannot
:10:40. > :10:45.just rush through a deal that is unsustainable. It has to be good for
:10:46. > :10:48.all parts of Britain. Yes, we should deliver on our promises for more
:10:49. > :10:51.devolution to Scotland, but let s deliver on promises to be English,
:10:52. > :10:56.and Northern Irish. Why are they locked out of the debate? Let's
:10:57. > :10:58.leave it there. Thank you for joining us.
:10:59. > :11:00.The man responsible for taking Scottish nationalism from
:11:01. > :11:02.the political fringes to within touching distance of victory, Alex
:11:03. > :11:05.Salmond, has a flair for dramatic announcements, and he gave us
:11:06. > :11:07.another on Friday when he revealed he's to stand
:11:08. > :11:12.Friends and foes have paid tribute to his extraordinary career.
:11:13. > :11:14.In a moment I'll be speaking to Alex Salmond,
:11:15. > :11:17.but first here's Adam Fleming with the story of the vote that broke
:11:18. > :11:39.The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole place converted into a studio for
:11:40. > :11:42.Scotland's big night. You know what you need for big events, big
:11:43. > :11:46.screens, and there are loads of them here. That one is three stories
:11:47. > :11:50.high, and this is the one Jeremy Vine uses for his graphics. The
:11:51. > :11:55.other thing that is massive is the turnout in the referendum, it is
:11:56. > :12:00.enormous. It was around 85% of the electorate, that is 4 million ballot
:12:01. > :12:13.papers. First to declare Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 1 ,000
:12:14. > :12:18.and 36. The first Noel of the night, and there were plenty more. -- the
:12:19. > :12:22.first no vote. The better together campaigners were over the moon, like
:12:23. > :12:27.Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in 100 different towns. I don't want to
:12:28. > :12:37.sound schmaltzy, but it makes you think more of Scotland. It makes you
:12:38. > :12:40.small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around five a.m., the Yes campaign
:12:41. > :12:46.applauded as they won Scotland's biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went
:12:47. > :12:49.their way as well, but just for areas out of 32 opted for
:12:50. > :12:54.independence. How many copies have you had? This is my second cup of
:12:55. > :12:59.tea on the morning -- how many copies. He was enjoying the
:13:00. > :13:04.refreshments on offer, but the yes campaigners were not in a happy
:13:05. > :13:08.place. We are in the bowels of one of the parts of the British
:13:09. > :13:13.establishment that, I've got to say, has probably done its job in this
:13:14. > :13:18.referendum, because I think the BBC has been critical in shoring up the
:13:19. > :13:23.establishment and have supported the no campaign as best as they could.
:13:24. > :13:28.But there was no arguing with the numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC
:13:29. > :13:34.called it. Scotland has voted no in this referendum on independence The
:13:35. > :13:37.result, in Fife, has taken the no campaign over the line and the
:13:38. > :13:44.official result of this referendum is a no. There we go, on a screen
:13:45. > :13:48.three stories high, Scotland has said no to independence. As soon as
:13:49. > :13:53.the newsprint was driving north of the border, the focus shifted south
:13:54. > :13:57.as the Prime Minister pledged more devolution for Scotland but only if
:13:58. > :13:59.it happened everywhere else as well. Just as Scotland will vote
:14:00. > :14:04.separately in the Scottish Parliament on their issues of tax,
:14:05. > :14:08.spending on welfare, so to England, as well as Wales and Northern
:14:09. > :14:13.Ireland, should be able to vote on these issues, and all this must take
:14:14. > :14:18.place in tandem with and at the same pace as the settlement for Scotland.
:14:19. > :14:27.It began to dawn on us all that we might end up doing this again. See
:14:28. > :14:30.you for an English referendum soon? Northern Ireland. There could be
:14:31. > :14:38.another one in Scotland. But not next weekend? Give me a break. There
:14:39. > :14:42.was no break for Nick, because Alex Salmond came up with one last twist,
:14:43. > :14:48.his resignation was as leader, my time is nearly over. But the
:14:49. > :14:55.Scotland, the campaign continues, and the dream shall never die. So,
:14:56. > :14:57.the referendum settled, the Constitution in flux, and a leader
:14:58. > :15:07.gone. All in a night work. Alex Salmond is to stand down as
:15:08. > :15:11.First Minister of Scotland. He shows no signs of going quietly. Last
:15:12. > :15:15.night, I spoke to the SNP leader in Aberdeen and began by asking him if
:15:16. > :15:20.it was always his intention to resign if he lost the referendum. I
:15:21. > :15:23.certainly have thought about it Andrew. But for most of the
:15:24. > :15:29.referendum campaign I thought we were going to win. So, I was...
:15:30. > :15:33.Yeah, maybe a few months back I considered it. But I only finally
:15:34. > :15:41.made up my mind on Friday lunch time. Did you agonise over the
:15:42. > :15:51.decision to stand down? I'm not really an agonising person. When you
:15:52. > :15:57.get beaten in a referendum, you have to consider standing down as a real
:15:58. > :16:01.possibility. Taking responsibility and politics has gone out of fashion
:16:02. > :16:05.but there is an aspect, if you need a campaign, and I was the leader of
:16:06. > :16:09.the Yes Campaign, and you don't win, you have to contemplate if you are
:16:10. > :16:12.the best person to lead future political campaigns. In my
:16:13. > :16:17.judgement, it was time for the SNP and the broader yes movement, the
:16:18. > :16:22.National movement of Scotland, they would benefit from new leadership.
:16:23. > :16:25.In your heart of hearts, through the campaign, as referendum on day
:16:26. > :16:31.approached, you did think you were going to win? Yes, I did. I thought
:16:32. > :16:39.for most of the last month of the campaign, we were in with a real
:16:40. > :16:42.chance. In the last week I thought we had pulled ahead. I thought the
:16:43. > :16:49.decisive aspect wasn't so much the fear mongering, the scaremongering,
:16:50. > :16:51.the kitchen sink being thrown at Scotland by orchestration from
:16:52. > :16:55.Downing Street, I thought the real thing was the pledge, the vow, the
:16:56. > :17:00.offer of something else. A lot of people that had been moving across
:17:01. > :17:04.to independence saw within that a reason to say, well, we can get
:17:05. > :17:11.something anyway without the perceived risks that were being
:17:12. > :17:18.festooned upon them. You were only five points away from your dream.
:17:19. > :17:23.You won Scotland's largest city There is now the prospect of more
:17:24. > :17:29.power. Why not stay and be an enhanced First Minister? Well, it is
:17:30. > :17:34.a good phrase. I'm not going away, though. I'm still going to be part
:17:35. > :17:37.of the political process. In Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire
:17:38. > :17:43.wish to keep electing me, that is what I will do. But I don't have to
:17:44. > :17:47.be First Minister of Scotland, leader of the Yes Campaign, to see
:17:48. > :17:52.that achieved. The SNP is a strong and powerful leadership team. There
:17:53. > :17:56.are a number of people that would do a fantastic job as leader of the
:17:57. > :18:02.party and First Minister. I've been leader of the party for the last 24
:18:03. > :18:06.years, I think it is time to give somebody else a shot. There are many
:18:07. > :18:10.able-bodied people that will do that well. -- many able people that will
:18:11. > :18:17.do that well. I'm still part of the national movement, arguing to take
:18:18. > :18:21.this forward. I think you are right, the question, one of the irony is
:18:22. > :18:24.developing so quickly after the referendum, it might be those that
:18:25. > :18:30.lost on Thursday end up as the political winners and those that won
:18:31. > :18:35.end up as the losers. When we met just for the vote, a couple of days
:18:36. > :18:38.before the vote, you said to me that there was very little you would
:18:39. > :18:45.change about the campaign strategy. Is that still your view? Yes. There
:18:46. > :18:51.are one or two things, like any campaign, there is no such thing as
:18:52. > :18:56.a pitcher campaign. I would refer not to dwell on such things. I will
:18:57. > :19:00.leave of my book, which will be called 100 Days, coming out before
:19:01. > :19:04.Christmas. Once you read that, I will probably reveal the things I
:19:05. > :19:08.would have changed. Basically, broadly, this was an extraordinary
:19:09. > :19:12.campaign. Not just a political campaign, but a campaign involving
:19:13. > :19:17.the grassroots of Scotland in an energising, empowering way, the like
:19:18. > :19:20.of which in on of us have witnessed. It was an extraordinary phenomenon
:19:21. > :19:26.of grassroots campaigning, which carried the Yes Campaign so far
:19:27. > :19:37.almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch put his Scottish Sun behind you
:19:38. > :19:45.would have that made the difference? If ifs and ands were pots and
:19:46. > :19:49.pans... Why did he not? I would not say that, you have form with him
:19:50. > :19:56.that I do not have. I'm not sure about that. I was very encouraged.
:19:57. > :20:00.The coverage, not in the other papers, The Times, which was
:20:01. > :20:04.extremely hostile to Scottish independence, but the coverage in
:20:05. > :20:13.the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced and we certainly got a very fair
:20:14. > :20:17.kick of the ball. In newspapers I would settle for no editorial line
:20:18. > :20:20.and just balanced coverage. We certainly got that from the Scottish
:20:21. > :20:27.Sun and that was an encouragement. I think you saw from his tweets,
:20:28. > :20:36.certainly in his heart he would have liked to have seen a move forward in
:20:37. > :20:41.Scotland and I like that. He said if you lost, that was it, referendum
:20:42. > :20:47.wise, for a generation, which he defined as about 20 years. Is that
:20:48. > :20:51.still your view? Yes, it is. It has always been my view. It's a personal
:20:52. > :20:56.view. There are always things that can change in politics. If the UK
:20:57. > :20:59.moved out of the European Union for example, that would be the sort of
:21:00. > :21:03.circumstance. Some people would argue with Westminster parties, and
:21:04. > :21:09.I'm actually not surprised that they are reneging on commitments, I am
:21:10. > :21:12.just surprised by the speed they are doing it. They seem to be totally
:21:13. > :21:18.shameless in these matters. You don't think they will meet the vow?
:21:19. > :21:22.You don't think there will keep to their vow? They are not, for that
:21:23. > :21:27.essential reason you saw developing on Friday. The Prime Minister wants
:21:28. > :21:30.to link change in Scotland to change in England. He wants to do that
:21:31. > :21:35.because he has difficulty in carrying his backbenchers on this
:21:36. > :21:38.and they are under pressure from UKIP. The Labour leadership are
:21:39. > :21:41.frightened of any changes in England which leave them without a majority
:21:42. > :21:47.in the House of Commons on English matters. I would not call it an
:21:48. > :21:53.irresistible force and immovable object, one is resistible and one is
:21:54. > :21:56.movable. They are at loggerheads. The vow, I think, was something
:21:57. > :21:58.cooked up in desperation for the last few days of the campaign. I
:21:59. > :22:05.think everybody in Scotland now engines that. -- recognises that. It
:22:06. > :22:10.was the people that were persuaded to vote no that word tricked,
:22:11. > :22:15.effectively. They are the ones that are really angry. Ed Miliband and
:22:16. > :22:22.David Cameron, if they are watching this, I would be more worried about
:22:23. > :22:29.the anger of the no voters than the opinion of the Yes Vote on that
:22:30. > :22:35.matter. If independence is on the back burner for now, what would you
:22:36. > :22:41.advise your successor's strategy for the SNP to be? I would advise him or
:22:42. > :22:48.her not to listen to advice from their predecessor. A new leader
:22:49. > :22:53.brings forward a new strategy. I think this is, for the SNP, a very
:22:54. > :22:59.favourable political time. There have been 5000 new members joined
:23:00. > :23:02.since Thursday. That is about a 25% increase in the party membership in
:23:03. > :23:15.the space of a few days. More than that, I think this is an opportunity
:23:16. > :23:18.for the SNP. But my goal is the opportunity for Scotland. I would
:23:19. > :23:25.repeat I am not retiring from politics. I'm standing down as First
:23:26. > :23:28.Minister of Scotland. On Friday coming back to the north-east of
:23:29. > :23:35.Scotland, I passed through Dundee, which voted yes by a stud --
:23:36. > :23:39.substantial margin. There was a line of a song I couldn't get out of my
:23:40. > :23:47.head, and old Jacobite song, rewritten by Robert Burns, the last
:23:48. > :23:55.line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in the midst of your glee, you've not
:23:56. > :23:58.seen the last of my bonnets and me. So you are staying a member of the
:23:59. > :24:03.Scottish Parliament, shall we see you again in the House of Commons?
:24:04. > :24:10.What does the future hold for you? Membership of Scottish Parliament is
:24:11. > :24:14.dependent on the good folk of Aberdeenshire east. If they choose
:24:15. > :24:19.to elect me, I will be delighted to serve. I've always loved being a
:24:20. > :24:22.constituency member of Parliament, I have known some front line
:24:23. > :24:26.politicians that regarded that as a chore. I'm not saying they didn t do
:24:27. > :24:32.it properly, I am sure they did But I love it. You get distilled wisdom
:24:33. > :24:34.from being a constituency member of Parliament that helps you keep your
:24:35. > :24:38.feet on the ground and have a good Parliament that helps you keep your
:24:39. > :26:29.people. I have no difficulty Parliament that helps you keep your
:26:30. > :26:32.left-wing candidates? I don't think I accept the characterisation of
:26:33. > :26:36.candidates being left wing. I don't think your viewers see politics in
:26:37. > :26:39.terms of what is left and right I think they see it in terms of what
:26:40. > :26:44.is right and wrong. Obviously, many of the things we have been talking
:26:45. > :26:47.about, how we ensure that the next generation can do better than the
:26:48. > :26:51.last, how we raise the wages of your viewers, who are currently working
:26:52. > :26:54.very hard but not making a wage they can live off, that is what they are
:26:55. > :26:59.talking about and that is what the public will judge them on. But they
:27:00. > :27:02.want to raise taxes, they don't want to cut public spending, they want to
:27:03. > :27:05.re-nationalise the railways, they don't think there is too much
:27:06. > :27:09.immigration, they want to scrap Trident. These are all positions
:27:10. > :27:13.clearly to the left of current party policy. But that is your
:27:14. > :27:18.characterisation. If you look at our policy to increase the top rate of
:27:19. > :27:21.tax to 50% for people earning over ?150,000, that is a central
:27:22. > :27:28.position. It is something that enjoys the support of the majority
:27:29. > :27:32.of the public. Trident? If you talk to the British public about
:27:33. > :27:36.immigration, yes, there are concerns about the numbers coming in and out,
:27:37. > :27:40.yes people want to see integration, yes, people want to see people
:27:41. > :27:43.putting a contribution before they take out, the people recognise, if
:27:44. > :27:47.you look at our multicultural nation, we have derived a lot of
:27:48. > :27:51.benefits from immigration. I don't think your characterisation of those
:27:52. > :27:58.positions, that is your view... It's not, it is their view. They are
:27:59. > :28:03.saying... You describe it... You described those positions as left
:28:04. > :28:08.wing positions. I am saying to you that I actually think a lot of those
:28:09. > :28:11.positions are centrist positions that would enjoy the support of the
:28:12. > :28:16.majority of your viewers. I don t think your viewers think the idea of
:28:17. > :28:19.the broadest shoulders bearing the heaviest burden in forms of tax are
:28:20. > :28:25.going to see it as a way out, radical principle. They want to
:28:26. > :28:30.scrap Trident, not party policy It isn't.
:28:31. > :28:36.I think that 73... Well, we will have 400 Parliamentary candidates at
:28:37. > :28:42.the time of the next general election, not including current MPs.
:28:43. > :28:48.This is 73 out of over 400 of them. I think we also need to treat the
:28:49. > :28:52.survey with a bit of caution. They are not representative? You are
:28:53. > :28:55.basically quoting the results of a small percentage of our
:28:56. > :28:59.Parliamentary candidates. It's pretty safe to say when you look at
:29:00. > :29:04.their views, they might be right or wrong, that's not my point, it's
:29:05. > :29:12.fairly safe to say that new Labour is dead? Again, I don't think people
:29:13. > :29:15.see things in terms of gold -- old or new Labour. We are standing at a
:29:16. > :29:21.Labour Party. We are a great country, but we have big challenges.
:29:22. > :29:24.We want to make sure that people can achieve their dreams and aspirations
:29:25. > :29:27.in this country. Too many people are not in that position. Too many
:29:28. > :29:32.people worry about the prospects of their children. Too many people do
:29:33. > :29:35.not earn a wage they can live off. Too many people are worried about
:29:36. > :29:38.the change. We have to make sure we are giving people a stake in the
:29:39. > :29:42.future. That is a Labour thing, you want to call it old or new come I
:29:43. > :29:53.don't care. It's a choice between Labour and the Conservatives in
:29:54. > :29:55.terms of who runs the next government. That one of your
:29:56. > :29:57.candidate we spoke to things that the party's relationship with the
:29:58. > :30:02.unions is to close. 30% of them think it should be closer. You have
:30:03. > :30:07.spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates. Why should the others be any
:30:08. > :30:11.different? It's a fairly representative Sample. Many people
:30:12. > :30:14.working on this set are the member of the union, the National union of
:30:15. > :30:18.journalists. People that came here to this Conference would have been
:30:19. > :30:23.brought here by trade union members. Do you think the relationship should
:30:24. > :30:27.be closer? I think it is where it should be. It should not be closer?
:30:28. > :30:30.I think that trade unions help create wealth in our country. If you
:30:31. > :30:36.look at some other success stories we are in the north-west, GM
:30:37. > :30:40.Vauxhall is there because you have trade unions working in partnership
:30:41. > :30:45.with government and local employees to make sure we kept producing cars.
:30:46. > :30:49.I'm not asking if unions are good or bad, I'm asking if Labour should be
:30:50. > :30:57.closer. You are presupposing, by the tone of your question, that our
:30:58. > :31:01.relationship is a problem. Let's turn to the English question. Why do
:31:02. > :31:04.you need a constitutional conversation where you have to
:31:05. > :31:07.discuss whether English people voting on English matters is
:31:08. > :31:10.unfair? We want to give the regions and cities in England more voice,
:31:11. > :31:18.but let's get it into perspective, we have had a situation where the
:31:19. > :31:24.Scottish people, as desired buying rich people, have to remain part of
:31:25. > :31:28.the UK -- by English people. What is the answer to the question? I don't
:31:29. > :31:31.want to get to a situation where people have voted for solidarity
:31:32. > :31:36.where you have a prime ministers talking about dividing up the UK
:31:37. > :31:40.Parliament. Let me put this point you. Most Scottish voters think it
:31:41. > :31:44.is unfair that Scottish MPs get to vote on English matters. That comes
:31:45. > :31:50.out in Scottish polls. Why don't you see it as unfair? If the Scots see
:31:51. > :31:54.it as unfair, why don't you? This is an age-old conundrum that has been
:31:55. > :31:57.around for 100 years and it's not so simple. You're talking about making
:31:58. > :32:02.a fundamental change to the British constitution on a whim. It's not
:32:03. > :32:09.just an issue, in respect of Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can
:32:10. > :32:13.vote on matters relating to the transport of England and transport
:32:14. > :32:16.is a devolved matter in London. In Wales, there are a number of
:32:17. > :32:20.competencies that Welsh MPs can vote on and they've been devolved to
:32:21. > :32:24.them. So with all of these different votes, you will exclude different
:32:25. > :32:27.MPs? I think the solution is not necessarily to obsess about what is
:32:28. > :32:31.happening between MPs in Westminster. That turns people
:32:32. > :32:35.politics. We need to devolve more. I think we should be giving the cities
:32:36. > :32:40.and regions of England more autonomy in the way that we are doing in
:32:41. > :32:44.Scotland, but I've got to say, Andrew, it's dishonourable and in
:32:45. > :32:49.bad faith for the Prime Minister to now seek to link what he agreed
:32:50. > :32:53.before the referendum to this issue of English votes for English MPs.
:32:54. > :32:56.That is totally dishonourable and in bad faith. You have promised to
:32:57. > :33:00.devolve more tax powers to Scotland. What would they be? This is being
:33:01. > :33:05.decided at the moment. I cannot give you the exact detail of what the tax
:33:06. > :33:09.powers would be. Could you give us a rough idea? There is a White Paper
:33:10. > :33:15.being produced before November and there will be draft legislation put
:33:16. > :33:18.forward in January. Your leader has vowed that this will happen. And you
:33:19. > :33:22.haven't got a policy? You can't tell us what the tax powers will be? I
:33:23. > :33:26.can't tell you on this programme right now. But we have accepted the
:33:27. > :33:31.principle on further devolution on tax, spending on welfare and we will
:33:32. > :33:33.have further details in due course. Your leader promised to maintain the
:33:34. > :33:39.Barnett Formula for the foreseeable future. Why is that fair when it
:33:40. > :33:43.enshrines more per capita spending for Scotland than it does for Wales,
:33:44. > :33:47.which is poorer, and more than many of the poorer regions in England
:33:48. > :33:52.get? Why is that fair? We have said that in terms of looking at go -
:33:53. > :33:54.local government spending playing out in this Parliament, we have
:33:55. > :33:58.looked at what the government has done which is having already
:33:59. > :34:03.deprived communities having money taken away from them and wealthier
:34:04. > :34:09.communities are getting more. We accept that the Barnett Formula has
:34:10. > :34:12.worked well. How has it works well? There is a cross parliamentary
:34:13. > :34:18.consensus as they don't know what to do about it. Why has it works well,
:34:19. > :34:23.when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm not sure by I accept that when you
:34:24. > :34:27.look at overall underspend -- government spending. It is per
:34:28. > :34:33.capita spending in Scotland, which is way ahead of per capita spending
:34:34. > :34:39.in Wales, but per capita incomes in Scotland are way ahead of Wales Why
:34:40. > :34:43.is that fair Labour politician? We have said we want to have more
:34:44. > :34:47.equitable distribution. You haven't, you have said you will keep the
:34:48. > :34:51.Barnett Formula. I'm not sure necessarily punishing Scotland is
:34:52. > :34:54.the way to go. The way that this debate is going, what message does
:34:55. > :35:00.it send to the Scottish people? I want to be clear, I am delighted
:35:01. > :35:02.with the result we have got. The unity and solidarity where
:35:03. > :35:06.maintaining across the nations of the United Kingdom. All of this
:35:07. > :35:09.separatist talk, setting up different nations of the UK against
:35:10. > :35:13.each other goes completely against what we've all been campaigning for
:35:14. > :35:16.over the last two years, and we shouldn't have any truck with it.
:35:17. > :35:22.Coming onto the announcement on the minimum wage, you would increase it
:35:23. > :35:26.by ?1 50 to take it to ?8, which would be over five years. That is
:35:27. > :35:31.all you are going to do over five years. Have you worked out how much
:35:32. > :35:38.of this increase will be clawed back in taxation and fewer benefits? Work
:35:39. > :35:44.has been done on it. How much? I can't give you an exact figure. The
:35:45. > :35:48.policy pays for itself. The way we have looked at this, we looked at
:35:49. > :35:52.the government figures, and if people are earning more, they would
:35:53. > :35:57.therefore be paying more in income tax and they will be receiving less
:35:58. > :36:01.in benefit and will pay out less in tax credits, so we are confident
:36:02. > :36:04.that this will pay for itself. I'm not asking about the pavement, I'm
:36:05. > :36:09.asking what it means for low paid workers will stop they will get an
:36:10. > :36:15.extra 30p per hour -- about the payment. How much of the 30p to they
:36:16. > :36:19.get to keep? In terms of what they get in the first instance, somebody
:36:20. > :36:23.on the minimum wage now, with our proposal, would get in the region of
:36:24. > :36:28.?3000 a year more than they are at the moment. That is before tax and
:36:29. > :36:35.benefits. How much do they keep I cannot give you an exact figure Why
:36:36. > :36:39.don't you give me an exact figure if you've done the modelling? We are
:36:40. > :36:42.talking about some of the lowest paid people in the country, and I
:36:43. > :36:48.would suggest to you that going down this route, they would face a
:36:49. > :36:52.marginal rate of tax of 50 or 6 % and they will not keep most of this
:36:53. > :36:57.increase you are talking about. I don't accept your figures. But you
:36:58. > :37:02.haven't got any of your own. I just don't have any in my head I can give
:37:03. > :37:05.you right now. Don't you think out policies before you announce them?
:37:06. > :37:08.Of course we think our policies before we announce them but we are
:37:09. > :37:12.confident people have more in their pocket and will be better off with
:37:13. > :37:15.the changes proposed, and we are also seeking to incentivise
:37:16. > :37:19.employers to pay a living wage as well. At the end of the day, as I
:37:20. > :37:23.said, the economy is recovering great, but we know, at the moment,
:37:24. > :37:26.it's still not delivering for a huge number of your viewers and we're
:37:27. > :37:29.determined to do something about it. The status quo is not an option And
:37:30. > :37:35.even joining me. Twice in three days. You can't have too much of a
:37:36. > :37:38.good thing. I am mad. He said that, not me.
:37:39. > :37:40.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. We
:37:41. > :37:43.say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now for
:37:44. > :37:48.Coming up here in twenty minutes, we'll be joined by John Prescott to
:37:49. > :37:50.talk about the challenge facing Labour as their conference starts
:37:51. > :38:00.First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:38:01. > :38:02.Hello, and welcome to your local part of the show:
:38:03. > :38:04.We're live with all the weekend's political devdlopments
:38:05. > :38:07.as the Prime Minister promises a new deal for regions
:38:08. > :38:14.But can the parties agree on what devolved powers we should gdt `
:38:15. > :38:18.The Labour MP for Sunderland Central Julie Elliott
:38:19. > :38:21.and North East Conservative Jeremy Middleton join me in the sttdio
:38:22. > :38:25.I'll also be talking to the leader of Newcastle Council
:38:26. > :38:27.We'll also be reporting on the 15 pollution hotspots,
:38:28. > :38:35.from Carlisle to Durham, whdre air quality fails to meet EU st`ndards.
:38:36. > :38:38.First, a promise of an ?8 an hour minimum wage if
:38:39. > :38:58.Julie Elliott, there were concerns there about whether tax will swallow
:38:59. > :39:02.up some of it, isn't it radhcal thing Conservatives are talking
:39:03. > :39:05.about the minimum wage? We `re the people who introduced the mhnimum
:39:06. > :39:10.wage, the Conservatives votdd against it. They said that ht would
:39:11. > :39:15.lose jobs, but it's created jobs. If people have more money to spend in
:39:16. > :39:20.the economy then that is a good thing, but ?8 an hour is a decent
:39:21. > :39:24.amount of money to be the mhnimum amount anybody should learn for
:39:25. > :39:31.work. The CBI has already r`ised concerns. This is going to push up
:39:32. > :39:37.their costs. All of the polhtical parties talk about a higher minimum
:39:38. > :39:41.wage, George Osborne was calling for one last year. It is very ddsirable
:39:42. > :39:49.to increase low`paying wee Prosser began. It is very `` if we possibly
:39:50. > :39:53.can. But the balances that hf we put up the minimum wage to fastdr too
:39:54. > :40:00.quickly, that will cost jobs. The solution at the moment is to use the
:40:01. > :40:04.Low Pay Commission who tries to take into account all of the views and
:40:05. > :40:07.make a balanced recommendathon. All of the political parties ard trying
:40:08. > :40:11.to pressure them to say that they would like to have a much hhgher
:40:12. > :40:16.minimum wage. I think that would be desirable, but if you go too fast
:40:17. > :40:21.and too quickly it will cost jobs. In Scotland, they have kick`started
:40:22. > :40:24.an intense debate this weekdnd about the future here in the north`east
:40:25. > :40:25.and Cumbria. David Cameron says there's
:40:26. > :40:27.an opportunity to change thd way Conservative MP for Hexham, Guy
:40:28. > :40:32.Opperman, believes the region will now get a fairer deal with greater
:40:33. > :40:35.powers handed to the new colbined I believe that there will bd greater
:40:36. > :40:46.powers devolved to the local authorities
:40:47. > :40:49.so that they actually can then drive forward a proper agenda for
:40:50. > :40:51.the north`east, governed, I hope, I'd like to see Boris`style figure,
:40:52. > :40:56.who is the mayor for the North East batting for us, and actuallx giving
:40:57. > :40:59.us the representation, But for all the talk of a ndw deal,
:41:00. > :41:10.critics are sceptical about the Government's commhtment to
:41:11. > :41:12.deliver real change. John Tomaney led the Yes calpaign
:41:13. > :41:15.when the North East was offdred its He says so far the Government
:41:16. > :41:23.isn't being radical enough. We have not seen any propos`ls for
:41:24. > :41:26.anything. At the moment we have a set of technocrat ick soluthons
:41:27. > :41:37.combined authorities, things which have made no real change. These are
:41:38. > :41:42.political things about how we revive democracy, that is really bhg issue
:41:43. > :41:52.that has been put on the agdnda about what has happened in Scotland.
:41:53. > :42:01.What is it that the north`e`st and Cumbria needs? We need a major
:42:02. > :42:09.transfer of economic power. The opportunity that we have is a
:42:10. > :42:14.massive opportunity to improve connectivity, with Scotland and the
:42:15. > :42:20.rest of England. HS three should be started in Edinburgh and cole down
:42:21. > :42:27.the East Coast, then the West Coast. Air air passenger duty, that should
:42:28. > :42:33.come down not just in Scotl`nd. We should have a waterway to Scotland.
:42:34. > :42:39.What about the trans`Pennind connections? `` motor way. These
:42:40. > :42:43.could make a major economic difference. We can discuss different
:42:44. > :42:47.political structures, but what we need is a solution now, and major
:42:48. > :42:53.investment in infrastructurd to help the North. You're one of thd
:42:54. > :42:57.campaigners for regional devolution. Some people say that the re`son that
:42:58. > :43:05.it failed was that what was offered was to meet. Do you need solething
:43:06. > :43:09.bigger? I was the agent for the Yes campaign. I was committed to it and
:43:10. > :43:14.voted for it. What I think ht was at the wrong time and the wrong package
:43:15. > :43:17.was on offer. I think now things have moved on, I am not surd it
:43:18. > :43:23.would be the right thing to try to do now. In a sense, John is right,
:43:24. > :43:37.it is not the process, it is about getting the
:43:38. > :43:42.commitments to Scotland, but you have no idea what Labour is going to
:43:43. > :43:48.offer to the north`east. We have is promise of a constitutional
:43:49. > :43:54.development. It will start to be kept things soon, but that hs the
:43:55. > :43:58.point. The Scottish question has been debated heavily. We nedd to
:43:59. > :44:02.take a stand back. It has changed the face of politics in the UK. We
:44:03. > :44:04.need to stand back and get the rate mechanism and powers transfdrred for
:44:05. > :45:34.the regions. power to regions like ours, but
:45:35. > :45:40.which powers and who should hope them? UKIP says that it shotld be
:45:41. > :45:51.Let us get the view of the leader of Let us get the view of the leader of
:45:52. > :45:57.Newcastle Council. What shotld they be offering cities like Newcastle?
:45:58. > :46:02.What we would like to see is not necessarily tax`raising powdrs but
:46:03. > :46:05.tax retention powers. The m`jority of taxes collected in places like
:46:06. > :46:09.Newcastle go straight to thd Treasury and if we're lucky we are
:46:10. > :46:12.allowed to for them to come back into the region to support some of
:46:13. > :46:15.our public services. The link between the public services that
:46:16. > :46:18.people receive and the monex that they pay for them has been broken
:46:19. > :46:25.because of that distance in decision`making. What I want to see
:46:26. > :46:29.us greater connectivity between what monies people creating taxes and the
:46:30. > :46:35.decisions that are taken locally about how that money is then spent
:46:36. > :46:39.to improve the local area. Will that compete with an enhanced Scottish
:46:40. > :46:43.parliament? Of course not. Hn the north`east the danger we ard
:46:44. > :46:48.squeezed between a Scottish parliament with more powers and the
:46:49. > :46:53.London assembly and possiblx even an English parliament which wotld be
:46:54. > :46:57.dominated by the interests of London and the south. We need to bd pulled
:46:58. > :47:01.and set out what we want to see in order to improve our economx,
:47:02. > :47:07.improve our society. We havd already been, as local authorities, working
:47:08. > :47:13.together. We have a local atthority from Berwick down to Durham which
:47:14. > :47:17.gives us the skeleton of how these powers could be developed. There is
:47:18. > :47:22.not 100% agreement between those local authority leaders. Cotld they
:47:23. > :47:27.work together on some of thdse bigger issues? Of course we do. We
:47:28. > :47:31.all want to see better prosperity and public services. But thd council
:47:32. > :47:35.leader in Sunderland wants to see a good deal for Sunderland, you want
:47:36. > :47:42.to see a good deal for Newc`stle, do those always come together? They are
:47:43. > :47:46.not mutually exclusive. What is good for Newcastle is good for Stnderland
:47:47. > :47:53.and vice versa. If we pool our local resources than it is good for
:47:54. > :47:59.everyone. It is an everyone's interest to make sure that the
:48:00. > :48:06.north`east thrives. Do you think that you can wait for the rdsult of
:48:07. > :48:11.the Constitutional Convention? No. We have set out ways in which the
:48:12. > :48:14.government can devolve responsibility is to straightaway. I
:48:15. > :48:20.would like to see us working on the same timetable as Scotland,, it is
:48:21. > :48:34.too important an issue to khck into the long grass. Would it re`lly
:48:35. > :48:36.work? It could work. It could provide much more focus and it could
:48:37. > :48:41.provide more unity in the leadership. But that is not
:48:42. > :48:45.something which is going to happen straightaway. I agree with Nick that
:48:46. > :48:54.we need something that will happen sooner than that. In partictlar
:48:55. > :48:58.there is also a threat from what has happened in Scotland. There will be
:48:59. > :49:02.a great many powers going to Scotland. I have talked abott how we
:49:03. > :49:08.can work with them. But there is a flip side, if they get lots of
:49:09. > :49:12.economic power and we do not, then they may be tempted to focus on
:49:13. > :49:17.inward investment that we should have had, in facing companids across
:49:18. > :49:23.the border, perhaps they will change the air passenger duty and then
:49:24. > :49:28.people will fly across the border. We cannot wait for a constitutional
:49:29. > :49:31.debate such as has been described. The impression and the accusation is
:49:32. > :49:36.that Labour is kicking this into the long grass and that it needs to
:49:37. > :49:39.happen now. We are the partx has always been committed to regional
:49:40. > :49:45.devolution. We took form with the Welsh Assembly, the Scottish
:49:46. > :49:49.parliament. What is your policy now? We have got to look at this
:49:50. > :49:54.carefully. What has happened in Scotland has completely changed the
:49:55. > :49:57.playing politics and to makd the wrong decision quickly is not the
:49:58. > :50:05.right thing to do. The Ray Davies mechanisms that could be usdd ``
:50:06. > :50:08.there are various mechanisms. We do not want to rush and make the wrong
:50:09. > :50:15.decision because there has not been proper discussion of this. What
:50:16. > :50:22.about someone who can be a focus for powers, and mayor in the north`east?
:50:23. > :50:32.I am not a fan of that. People have to have the support and trust of the
:50:33. > :50:37.people they represent. How's it democratic, there are seven Labour
:50:38. > :50:43.Leader sitting round a tabld? It is representative of who the pdople
:50:44. > :50:52.elect. 40% of 50% of the voters who do not vote... It has not all was
:50:53. > :50:56.been that way. Leaders change. There are other things on the table. We
:50:57. > :50:59.need to be kept it carefullx to make sure that the reasons we've all set
:51:00. > :51:06.out that we need the transfdr of powers, we need the transfer and
:51:07. > :51:09.there is not much disagreemdnt on that, but we need the right
:51:10. > :51:12.mechanism for our region and that needs to be thought through
:51:13. > :51:20.properly. Will be get a refdrendum on whether we have the city mayor?
:51:21. > :51:29.Will people be asked if thex want a mayor Newcastle? There is a lot to
:51:30. > :51:35.be said for that... Will people get say on it? I do not think that it
:51:36. > :51:38.could come in without there being a referendum. We will all havd
:51:39. > :51:42.different views and we could spend 25 years debating it and we will be
:51:43. > :51:45.having the same discussions, because frankly Scotland could not lanage to
:51:46. > :51:48.have consensus on its own independence and it was an
:51:49. > :51:54.independent country a few htndred years ago. I do not see much success
:51:55. > :51:58.that way. What happens is the economic powers `` what matters
:51:59. > :52:06.They can come now. That will make a difference to people, whethdr our
:52:07. > :52:10.economy booms are not. Should we be passing on powers to get thd buses
:52:11. > :52:15.to run on time or should we concentrate on bigger things? That
:52:16. > :52:20.is quite a big thing, it allows people to get to and from work and
:52:21. > :52:24.enjoy a social life. What wd are seeing at the moment being played
:52:25. > :52:30.out as a wrangle between he`lth and social, who gets which bits of the
:52:31. > :52:34.part? There is so much more we could do if we had the ability to join up
:52:35. > :52:38.our public services over a long period of time. How is this debate
:52:39. > :52:50.is taking shape in the Labotr Party? Let us speak to Mark.
:52:51. > :52:54.As soon as one great big row goes out of the way another one comes
:52:55. > :52:59.along. With the end of that referendum campaign it is not just
:53:00. > :53:02.differences between parties for devolution for England, it hs
:53:03. > :53:07.differences within parties, including this one. One MP over the
:53:08. > :53:11.weekend said that our public services in the north`east has been
:53:12. > :53:21.cut to the bone for the Scottish, everyday, are being offered braid
:53:22. > :53:27.stash Mack `` are being offdred bribes. Regional dialogue, Dd
:53:28. > :53:32.Miliband has talked about that, but what we do not know is what it means
:53:33. > :53:37.for the north`east and Cumbria, and crucially, when we will get them.
:53:38. > :53:42.What else is on the agenda, presumably more than this?
:53:43. > :53:45.What of other issues. The mhnimum wage announcement, which yot have
:53:46. > :53:51.been talking about, that is going to be a topic. And quite interdstingly,
:53:52. > :53:55.Police and Crime Commissiondr is, the announcement today from Yvette
:53:56. > :54:09.Cooper, Libra is going to abolish them. `` Labour. And of course, Ed
:54:10. > :54:13.Miliband's speech on Tuesdax. We will be bringing you full coverage
:54:14. > :54:16.throughout the week. Mark will be speaking exclusively to
:54:17. > :54:18.the Labour Leader Ed Miliband about the future of the region, you can
:54:19. > :54:25.see that next week. Now, as I think someone oncd said,
:54:26. > :54:28.for something completely different ` air pollution. Which we're told is
:54:29. > :54:31.contributing to hundreds of deaths a year in the North East and Cumbria.
:54:32. > :54:34.In 15 places, including parts of Carlisle, Newcastle and Durham,
:54:35. > :54:36.pollution limits set by the European Union are being regularly exceeded.
:54:37. > :54:39.As Luke Walton reports, our local councils are coming under pressure
:54:40. > :54:52.to tackle the problem. Refute it's leafy front garden is
:54:53. > :55:06.not the obvious place to worry about pollution `` research unit's `` Ruth
:55:07. > :55:09.Hewitt's garden. There were not many industry factories around hdre but
:55:10. > :55:13.we are close to the motorwax and the airport, so some of the pollution
:55:14. > :55:19.from those places could havd an impact. So far her measuremdnts
:55:20. > :55:25.suggest that street does not have a problem, but close by is a different
:55:26. > :55:28.story. This is one of the pollution hotspots, Gosford high`stredt in
:55:29. > :55:36.Newcastle. It is rush`hour congestion which is causing some of
:55:37. > :55:46.the pollution like this. People are purchasing diesel engines. They are
:55:47. > :55:53.causing less CO2, but the pdrmit `` they emit more nitrogen dioxide
:55:54. > :56:00.which can cause respiratory problems and heart disease. Backing debris,
:56:01. > :56:10.the European Commission issted a legal challenge against the British
:56:11. > :56:25.government, saying that it's ear pollution levels were too hhgh. ``
:56:26. > :56:30.Iraq pollution. `` air pollttion. This is one of our brand`new hybrid
:56:31. > :56:35.vehicles. The government insists that pollution is being tackled and
:56:36. > :56:40.sees this as proof, a hybrid bus that is green in more than colour.
:56:41. > :56:46.One of the growing north`east fleet of eco`friendly vehicles, p`rt
:56:47. > :56:49.funded by the transport apartment. You have your traditional engine
:56:50. > :56:54.which drives the electric motor behind it, which generates the
:56:55. > :57:01.batteries and allows it to drive one full electric mode. What is the
:57:02. > :57:07.benefit of that? Zero emisshons Less pollution. We are all being
:57:08. > :57:13.encouraged to go electric, but so far only a minority have done so.
:57:14. > :57:17.This scene in Durham is aftdrnoon rush hour turned into a crawl
:57:18. > :57:23.through the city centre. Thd local council has a plan to build a
:57:24. > :57:32.bypass. 40,000 vehicles crossing the bridge. If we can keep them round
:57:33. > :57:40.the edge of the city then wd will manage air pollution. We want
:57:41. > :57:44.investment in the alternatives. The government has started to btild
:57:45. > :57:58.things like Park and reds. We want to make it easy for people to walk
:57:59. > :58:02.from a to B. The government say that they are making progress, btt for
:58:03. > :58:08.many of us the way ahead, lhke the air, is not crystal clear.
:58:09. > :58:15.Can we wait that long? It is a gradual process, getting eldctric
:58:16. > :58:24.vehicles. Coming from London, as an asthmatic, Londoners have `` London
:58:25. > :58:28.is horrendous for air pollution I have never had a problem in the
:58:29. > :58:33.north`east. The seals of thd letter vehicles are going up and the seals
:58:34. > :58:37.of hybrid cars are going up, but these are hotspots in the
:58:38. > :58:42.north`east, let us not get ht out of proportion. There is not a lassive
:58:43. > :58:46.problem in the north`east. We did have the promise that it wotld be
:58:47. > :58:55.the greenest government ever, remember that? Air quality hs
:58:56. > :58:59.improving, but it is not improving in a few areas at the same rate that
:59:00. > :59:02.European legislation says that it should. We want to see to ilprove
:59:03. > :59:06.further and I agree with Julie that it is about people moving towards
:59:07. > :59:11.low carbon vehicles and thehr are things that local authoritids can do
:59:12. > :59:22.things about. We need more incentives, whether it would be taxi
:59:23. > :59:28.lanes, local authorities can help to solve local problems and hotspot
:59:29. > :59:32.areas. The local council solution is to just build another road. In
:59:33. > :59:38.County Durham people need to use cars to get work, that the reality.
:59:39. > :59:42.Rural communities do not have the public transport infrastructure ..
:59:43. > :59:47.But we're in building new roads for decades and it is not a solttion.
:59:48. > :59:51.But bypass roads can make a big difference, particularly to the
:59:52. > :59:55.quality of people's waves in big cities. It has to be a balanced
:59:56. > :00:05.approach, you need a bit of everything. You take the life in
:00:06. > :00:11.your hands if you cycle and parts of Tyne Wear. We are not Holland
:00:12. > :00:15.that is true, but there are big improvements, and we are not London
:00:16. > :00:20.either. It is not difficult to get around and we do not have tdrrible
:00:21. > :00:25.air pollution problems. By `nd large our pollution levels are good and
:00:26. > :00:32.are improving. You're sending complacent. We are making good
:00:33. > :00:35.progress. Particularly in this region, for we have a higher
:00:36. > :00:39.penetration of electric vehhcles, where we are very motivated to try
:00:40. > :00:44.to drive the low carbon indtstry, we are making more progress th`n most
:00:45. > :00:51.places. I'm not complacent, we should do more, and we will do more.
:00:52. > :00:54.That is all from us after a momentous week for politics. Look
:00:55. > :00:58.out for the Conservative mayor's policy No
:00:59. > :01:06.more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back to you.
:01:07. > :01:08.Welcome back the to Labour conference, where we're joined
:01:09. > :01:12.by the latest hot new stand-up comedian on the Manchester circuit.
:01:13. > :01:17.I speak of course of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott.
:01:18. > :01:19.In between giving tub-thumping speeches to rally
:01:20. > :01:22.the party faithful this week, he's appearing at the Comedy Store.
:01:23. > :01:26.He was also of course the man behind the last attempt to solve
:01:27. > :01:37.Our political panel is with me as well. John, we have got Scottish
:01:38. > :01:40.votes for Scottish laws, and more Scottish votes for Scottish laws,
:01:41. > :01:45.why not English votes for English laws? That's an English parliament
:01:46. > :01:49.in a major constitutional change and that is what has started. I
:01:50. > :01:53.certainly don't agree with that I campaign for powers to be given to
:01:54. > :01:57.the regions. When I first tested it in the Northeast, I lost. Why?
:01:58. > :02:01.Because they said they were not the same powers you are giving to
:02:02. > :02:09.Scotland. So, basically, we must do that, decentralised, not just with a
:02:10. > :02:12.Westminster Parliament. As you know, in 32 years I produce the
:02:13. > :02:17.alternative. You've kept that for 32 years? I took it off my shelf and
:02:18. > :02:23.everybody was talking about it now, but they weren't in 1982. This was
:02:24. > :02:29.my five plan. 200 meetings all around the country -- five-year
:02:30. > :02:33.plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 years ago, that this was a plot to
:02:34. > :02:37.turn Westminster into a Tory dominated English parliament. But if
:02:38. > :02:42.that is how England had voted, it's not a plot, it's democracy. You can
:02:43. > :03:28.get reform in a more federal structure,
:03:29. > :03:28.get reform in a more federal of the daily record, but if they do
:03:29. > :04:40.not agree with of the daily record, but if they do
:04:41. > :04:43.the north-east, they said we know you have an idea for devolution and
:04:44. > :04:47.you will give us assemblies but it doesn't have the power of Scotland,
:04:48. > :04:50.but now we are talking about equity, similar distribution of
:04:51. > :04:54.power and similar resources. The English people are entitled to that.
:04:55. > :04:59.They have been robbed of it for too long. Labour has long struggled with
:05:00. > :05:03.what it should do over devolving power to the regions and you came up
:05:04. > :05:07.with regional assemblies. Ed Miliband has a different idea of
:05:08. > :05:11.city regions. Aren't they the same idea of yours but without a
:05:12. > :05:14.democratic accountability? Can we really trust the greater region of
:05:15. > :05:19.Manchester or Birmingham to deliver if there is not the same kind of
:05:20. > :05:24.democratic link with the people I live in whole, and it stops on the
:05:25. > :05:29.boundary of the Pennines -- the city of Hull. We have city regions from
:05:30. > :05:33.Labour because I failed in the north-east to get the assemblies in,
:05:34. > :05:37.and now we have to look at those options. Do you work through city
:05:38. > :05:40.regions? Mainly in the north, I might say. Even the federal
:05:41. > :05:43.structure they talk about my be in the North or Midlands with
:05:44. > :05:48.Birmingham, but there are a number of options and that is where I
:05:49. > :05:52.believe that what the White Paper should do is to put those options
:05:53. > :05:56.in. Instead of having to put them together, state what you want to do
:05:57. > :05:59.in the English regions. Leave it to the legislation, which is what will
:06:00. > :06:04.happen with the Scottish, and once you've agreed it, you do it after.
:06:05. > :06:07.You have to start the radical debate about giving the English regions,
:06:08. > :06:12.not centralised in London, but decentralised. Do you need to have a
:06:13. > :06:17.separate English parliament? Wouldn't it just satisfy the English
:06:18. > :06:22.if you simply said to MPs, when it's in English matter in the House of
:06:23. > :06:25.Commons, stop interfering? I would disagree with that. I would say put
:06:26. > :06:30.the option in the White Paper. The White Paper seems to be talking
:06:31. > :06:33.about Scotland. If you don't put the commitments to what you want to do
:06:34. > :06:38.with the English regions, people might say I'm not supporting that.
:06:39. > :06:42.Put the framework in the White Paper, but a different timetable.
:06:43. > :06:46.Devolution in this country has been to a different timetable, whether
:06:47. > :06:49.it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start looking fundamentally at it and the
:06:50. > :06:56.Labour Party should be leading the debate. Let's come the no campaign
:06:57. > :07:01.lost Glasgow. The cradle of British socialism. -- let's come to
:07:02. > :07:04.something that happened with the referendum as the no campaign lost
:07:05. > :07:09.Glasgow. Is it a sign that the Labour Party are finding it hard to
:07:10. > :07:13.what -- hold on to their traditional working class vote question mark its
:07:14. > :07:17.different in Manchester. They would say it is a message about
:07:18. > :07:26.decentralisation. If we change the message a bit maybe. We have been
:07:27. > :07:29.thinking that now it is that either the Labour Party to recognise it is
:07:30. > :07:33.not the old message and old areas that will win it. I remember
:07:34. > :07:38.covering the 1997 referendum in Scotland and you gave a tub thumping
:07:39. > :07:41.speech in a big hall in Hamilton and you really connected. Obviously it
:07:42. > :07:45.was a different referendum because that was about a parliament, not
:07:46. > :07:49.independence and Alex Salmond was on your side, but you, and Ingush MP,
:07:50. > :07:54.an English minister, connected to the core Labour voters in a way that
:07:55. > :08:02.Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an English MP. You make a fair point.
:08:03. > :08:09.In the big rally, I had to point out I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on
:08:10. > :08:14.with it. What I was saying there was that I supported you, as I did for
:08:15. > :08:18.30 odd years when Labour MPs were against any thinker Scotland. I
:08:19. > :08:21.support you, but I expect you to come in with your Scottish MPs and
:08:22. > :08:25.make sure the English get their share of the powers and resources
:08:26. > :08:31.and that is what that speech was about, and by God, it's as relevant
:08:32. > :08:35.today as it was then. I haven't got any Scottish MPs, I live in
:08:36. > :08:43.Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? No. What would you have done? I
:08:44. > :08:50.can't tell you. You would have voted yes, come on. I'm interested. What
:08:51. > :08:57.do you want to hear from the speech by Ed Miliband? People are wondering
:08:58. > :09:00.about where Labour stands. There are many issues we have flown around,
:09:01. > :09:07.and we've done the discussion just now. What he has got to do where he
:09:08. > :09:12.started off on the minimum wage You are trying to deal with those left
:09:13. > :09:15.behind. Those are the bottom. That is the Labour message. The National
:09:16. > :09:19.Health Service is our creation and we have to say it will be saved If
:09:20. > :09:22.you can save all of these bankers with all the money and say you
:09:23. > :09:28.haven't got the money for the NHS, say where we stand. That will be the
:09:29. > :09:31.priority. The third one, housing. I have had a revolutionary idea that
:09:32. > :09:35.you can buy a house without a deposit and without the interest or
:09:36. > :09:40.paying the stamp duty, and you buy it by rent. The government gives
:09:41. > :09:45.?150 billion guaranteed housing for up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary
:09:46. > :09:48.people who can use their rent to buy the house. It's happening in the
:09:49. > :09:51.north-east. Why are they not listening to you? You have said more
:09:52. > :09:56.to connect with ordinary people in three minutes than we will probably
:09:57. > :10:00.hear in an hour. I've been telling them, made, and we have a commission
:10:01. > :10:06.coming out. People don't want commissions, they want action. I
:10:07. > :10:10.say, I know what we do, housing health, the people. That is our
:10:11. > :10:14.language. That is why we are Labour. That a lot of people run away. I
:10:15. > :10:18.think in Glasgow, they wondered about that. If you turn up on the
:10:19. > :10:22.same three platforms, and I know it's a critical thing to say, they
:10:23. > :10:28.think in Scotland it is a coalition. I don't like coalitions. It looks
:10:29. > :10:32.like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe it was saved because Rupert Murdoch
:10:33. > :10:38.started the The Times about the polls and he couldn't even get the
:10:39. > :10:42.sun to say that they wanted. We haven't got time. I wondered how
:10:43. > :10:48.long it would take is to get to repot Murdoch. You beat the record.
:10:49. > :10:51.-- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is quite behind on the economy, and
:10:52. > :10:55.people are looking at Labour, trying to work out if they can trust you to
:10:56. > :11:01.the stewards of the economy given 2010. Under Labour 's plans there is
:11:02. > :11:06.20 billion of cuts to make in the next Parliament. Will we hear
:11:07. > :11:11.anything about that? It is about the proportion of debt to GDP. I know it
:11:12. > :11:16.sounds historic, but our debt when we came in in 1997 was a proportion
:11:17. > :11:23.of GDP, and you must know this, and that was less than Thatcher's. Why
:11:24. > :11:26.did we get done on debt? You guys run around saying a lot about it,
:11:27. > :11:33.but the fact is it was worse under Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a
:11:34. > :11:37.hero. If you look at the debt, it is still a problem. Gordon Brown did an
:11:38. > :11:41.awful lot to solve those problems, but they were still left with us.
:11:42. > :11:45.What we have to have is a sensible discussion like we had on devolution
:11:46. > :11:49.and now we are talking about finances. Let's look at the public
:11:50. > :11:52.sector debt and the price we pay. We need to be putting the record
:11:53. > :11:56.straight. The problem is they tell me, John, we have to look to the
:11:57. > :11:59.future not the past. We are getting screwed on the past and we have to
:12:00. > :12:06.change it and perhaps Gordon Brown coming in could do something.
:12:07. > :12:10.Finishing on the future, when we did a poll of the Labour candidates you
:12:11. > :12:14.were watching on the big screen when it came up that their favourite
:12:15. > :12:25.to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette Cooper, why did you shout no! That
:12:26. > :12:27.is alive. -- alive. -- that is not true. I know resistance is not
:12:28. > :12:44.strong. What did that mean? You can't get away with anything at
:12:45. > :12:49.a Conference, John. I was dropping comments them to pick up everywhere,
:12:50. > :12:55.I do not wear -- nowhere they got that one from. Good to have you
:12:56. > :12:59.back. Round of applause for former Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for
:13:00. > :13:01.today. Don't applaud them, they are useless.
:13:02. > :13:06.my guests. I'll be back here at Labour conference for the Daily
:13:07. > :13:10.11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring you live coverage of the speech by
:13:11. > :13:15.We're here all week, and next Sunday you can find us in Birmingham for
:13:16. > :13:23.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.