:00:34. > :00:37.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:39.Theresa May says she wants to help people who are
:00:40. > :00:42."just about managing" - so should she reverse
:00:43. > :00:45.George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people
:00:46. > :00:52.Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker,
:00:53. > :00:55.says the High Court, after claims made on this programme.
:00:56. > :01:00.So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police?
:01:01. > :01:05.Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation
:01:06. > :01:08.into her use of a private email server - is this the boost
:01:09. > :01:17.Help chances of winning the White House?
:01:18. > :01:20.Here, good news for Nissan, but what about the rest
:01:21. > :01:23.Now it is just a question of building that runway with the
:01:24. > :01:30.political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio
:01:31. > :01:32.on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political
:01:33. > :01:34.panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman,
:01:35. > :01:37.'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two
:01:38. > :01:46.new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant
:01:47. > :01:49.in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday
:01:50. > :01:55.was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British
:01:56. > :01:58.economy is in rude health This morning, the Business
:01:59. > :02:01.Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given
:02:02. > :02:05.to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest
:02:06. > :02:11.for there to be tariff barriers to the continent
:02:12. > :02:17.and vice versa. So, what I said is that our
:02:18. > :02:20.objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets
:02:21. > :02:25.in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without
:02:26. > :02:29.bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach
:02:30. > :02:33.those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle
:02:34. > :02:46.by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has
:02:47. > :02:51.been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by
:02:52. > :02:56.making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for
:02:57. > :03:01.the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in
:03:02. > :03:05.the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of
:03:06. > :03:11.incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are
:03:12. > :03:14.absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most
:03:15. > :03:19.productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most
:03:20. > :03:25.productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade
:03:26. > :03:28.unions and the business organisations, and everybody who
:03:29. > :03:34.campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their
:03:35. > :03:39.future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge
:03:40. > :03:43.difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make
:03:44. > :03:48.things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing
:03:49. > :03:53.sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security.
:03:54. > :03:58.I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow
:03:59. > :04:01.business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims
:04:02. > :04:07.the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a
:04:08. > :04:10.small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs
:04:11. > :04:15.in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're
:04:16. > :04:19.really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce,
:04:20. > :04:23.and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t
:04:24. > :04:27.ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job
:04:28. > :04:32.security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors
:04:33. > :04:37.as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important
:04:38. > :04:42.they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you
:04:43. > :04:48.say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that
:04:49. > :04:52.what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole
:04:53. > :04:58.industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he
:04:59. > :05:03.had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our
:05:04. > :05:05.industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered
:05:06. > :05:11.piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan,
:05:12. > :05:15.actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what
:05:16. > :05:19.is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on
:05:20. > :05:24.science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You
:05:25. > :05:29.must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an
:05:30. > :05:37.industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say
:05:38. > :05:43.industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you
:05:44. > :05:47.disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he
:05:48. > :05:52.has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in
:05:53. > :05:58.general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with
:05:59. > :06:02.that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let
:06:03. > :06:08.him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we
:06:09. > :06:15.need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and
:06:16. > :06:22.joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That
:06:23. > :06:25.was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed
:06:26. > :06:30.support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is
:06:31. > :06:36.not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there
:06:37. > :06:40.was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to
:06:41. > :06:45.be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you
:06:46. > :06:49.claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to
:06:50. > :06:56.be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I
:06:57. > :07:02.would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances
:07:03. > :07:08.that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of
:07:09. > :07:11.what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the
:07:12. > :07:16.single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs
:07:17. > :07:21.Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very
:07:22. > :07:23.good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant
:07:24. > :07:29.investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is
:07:30. > :07:34.some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would
:07:35. > :07:39.like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what
:07:40. > :07:44.would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with
:07:45. > :07:48.the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain
:07:49. > :07:53.competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg
:07:54. > :07:58.Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we
:07:59. > :08:07.do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about
:08:08. > :08:11.reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're
:08:12. > :08:14.going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only
:08:15. > :08:21.those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention
:08:22. > :08:24.of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a
:08:25. > :08:29.competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave
:08:30. > :08:34.them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest
:08:35. > :08:37.Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made
:08:38. > :08:41.strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise
:08:42. > :08:46.corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could
:08:47. > :08:51.you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our
:08:52. > :08:55.vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong
:08:56. > :09:05.manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at
:09:06. > :09:13.Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained,
:09:14. > :09:17.well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't
:09:18. > :09:22.have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union
:09:23. > :09:26.laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing
:09:27. > :09:29.investment. Remember, the last government took away the
:09:30. > :09:34.Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed
:09:35. > :09:38.corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill
:09:39. > :09:42.economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you.
:09:43. > :09:53.I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is
:09:54. > :09:57.left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid
:09:58. > :10:01.point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could
:10:02. > :10:07.say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he
:10:08. > :10:11.could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was
:10:12. > :10:18.enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving
:10:19. > :10:22.training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not
:10:23. > :10:25.know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is
:10:26. > :10:29.if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government
:10:30. > :10:34.says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an
:10:35. > :10:38.industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't
:10:39. > :10:41.made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an
:10:42. > :10:48.impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure
:10:49. > :10:51.this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of
:10:52. > :10:56.millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I
:10:57. > :11:00.spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to
:11:01. > :11:04.Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that
:11:05. > :11:08.Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record,
:11:09. > :11:13.its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some
:11:14. > :11:17.bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk
:11:18. > :11:21.away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced -
:11:22. > :11:27.based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position
:11:28. > :11:29.because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want
:11:30. > :11:36.to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a
:11:37. > :11:39.smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to
:11:40. > :11:42.articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think
:11:43. > :11:47.the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were
:11:48. > :11:50.anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an
:11:51. > :11:54.objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its
:11:55. > :12:00.right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one
:12:01. > :12:04.thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this
:12:05. > :12:06.morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of
:12:07. > :12:11.financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for
:12:12. > :12:17.skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial
:12:18. > :12:19.investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal
:12:20. > :12:25.under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a
:12:26. > :12:29.financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would
:12:30. > :12:32.be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just
:12:33. > :12:36.released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there.
:12:37. > :12:41.The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited
:12:42. > :12:45.about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would
:12:46. > :12:49.be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded
:12:50. > :12:52.as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal
:12:53. > :12:58.about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about
:12:59. > :13:01.what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff
:13:02. > :13:09.free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is
:13:10. > :13:13.where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how
:13:14. > :13:19.the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's
:13:20. > :13:24.negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please.
:13:25. > :13:29.It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We
:13:30. > :13:31.are getting wider than that. We have will have to see.
:13:32. > :13:33.Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare
:13:34. > :13:35.claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst
:13:36. > :13:38.encouraging people into work by making work pay.
:13:39. > :13:40.But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work
:13:41. > :13:46.incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off?
:13:47. > :13:48.Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and,
:13:49. > :13:54.as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed.
:13:55. > :13:58.Theresa May says she wants a country that works
:13:59. > :14:02.for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people.
:14:03. > :14:05.It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them
:14:06. > :14:08.to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out
:14:09. > :14:11.and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes
:14:12. > :14:17.But now some in her party are worried that the low earners
:14:18. > :14:22.will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system
:14:23. > :14:24.originally set up to encourage more people into work.
:14:25. > :14:27.We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit
:14:28. > :14:33.Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget
:14:34. > :14:42.to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill.
:14:43. > :14:45.Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs
:14:46. > :14:53.in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again.
:14:54. > :14:56.I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might
:14:57. > :14:58.be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit,
:14:59. > :15:02.Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand
:15:03. > :15:05.To be fair, unless you really get into the detail,
:15:06. > :15:08.and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions
:15:09. > :15:09.Select Committee, I don't think anybody does.
:15:10. > :15:15.Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan
:15:16. > :15:19.that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work.
:15:20. > :15:22.One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system
:15:23. > :15:25.That is how much you can earn before your credit
:15:26. > :15:28.As the Government has sought to save money,
:15:29. > :15:31.both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government,
:15:32. > :15:33.both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government,
:15:34. > :15:35.that work allowance has been cut, time and time again.
:15:36. > :15:38.The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015.
:15:39. > :15:40.That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep
:15:41. > :15:44.It weakens the incentive people have to move into work.
:15:45. > :15:46.What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean?
:15:47. > :15:49.The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers.
:15:50. > :15:53.If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer
:15:54. > :15:56.budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains
:15:57. > :15:58.in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts,
:15:59. > :16:03.recipients will be hit by annual deductions.
:16:04. > :16:07.Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less.
:16:08. > :16:09.A dual-earning couple with two children under four,
:16:10. > :16:12.with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other
:16:13. > :16:15.working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20
:16:16. > :16:22.hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less.
:16:23. > :16:24.Hit most by the changes would be a single parent
:16:25. > :16:26.with a child under four, working full-time
:16:27. > :16:40.I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given
:16:41. > :16:43.the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed.
:16:44. > :16:49.What I would like to see is an increase in the work
:16:50. > :16:52.allowances to those people who will be hardest hit.
:16:53. > :16:55.That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work,
:16:56. > :16:57.because they are the people we need to absolutely make
:16:58. > :17:02.The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs
:17:03. > :17:05.are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement.
:17:06. > :17:08.A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact
:17:09. > :17:11.analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures
:17:12. > :17:18.Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect
:17:19. > :17:22.of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed.
:17:23. > :17:27.But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit
:17:28. > :17:32.the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year.
:17:33. > :17:35.What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first
:17:36. > :17:38.time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year
:17:39. > :17:40.because these reforms actually do make sense.
:17:41. > :17:43.What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people
:17:44. > :17:45.off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people
:17:46. > :17:47.earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this
:17:48. > :17:51.People are coming off welfare and into work.
:17:52. > :17:54.Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve
:17:55. > :18:00.The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple
:18:01. > :18:04.Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right
:18:05. > :18:06.that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind,
:18:07. > :18:08.for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have
:18:09. > :18:14.I think it is time for us to look at that policy again,
:18:15. > :18:16.because is costing us an awful lot of money.
:18:17. > :18:19.With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's
:18:20. > :18:22.new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement,
:18:23. > :18:25.its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it
:18:26. > :18:35.And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary,
:18:36. > :18:43.Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side
:18:44. > :18:48.of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit
:18:49. > :18:52.from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed
:18:53. > :18:56.as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed
:18:57. > :18:59.because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going
:19:00. > :19:04.to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for
:19:05. > :19:09.being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus
:19:10. > :19:16.on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic
:19:17. > :19:20.terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is
:19:21. > :19:23.the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this
:19:24. > :19:26.right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the
:19:27. > :19:30.direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too
:19:31. > :19:34.much money out of that group of people when there are other areas
:19:35. > :19:38.which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit
:19:39. > :19:41.is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to
:19:42. > :19:45.stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were
:19:46. > :19:51.there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it
:19:52. > :19:55.should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to
:19:56. > :19:59.stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but
:20:00. > :20:03.that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but
:20:04. > :20:07.first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis
:20:08. > :20:14.of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant
:20:15. > :20:19.and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I
:20:20. > :20:27.do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised
:20:28. > :20:31.that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that
:20:32. > :20:35.pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing
:20:36. > :20:40.the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost
:20:41. > :20:48.us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another
:20:49. > :20:53.5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind
:20:54. > :21:00.you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in
:21:01. > :21:05.2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a
:21:06. > :21:09.week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes
:21:10. > :21:16.that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p.
:21:17. > :21:22.What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and
:21:23. > :21:32.election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us
:21:33. > :21:37.today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest
:21:38. > :21:43.in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%.
:21:44. > :21:47.Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose
:21:48. > :21:52.benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too
:21:53. > :21:56.high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the
:21:57. > :22:01.moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at
:22:02. > :22:07.65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will
:22:08. > :22:11.face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important.
:22:12. > :22:14.The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand
:22:15. > :22:18.is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to
:22:19. > :22:21.get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into
:22:22. > :22:28.work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in
:22:29. > :22:32.hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have
:22:33. > :22:36.a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same
:22:37. > :22:40.commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty
:22:41. > :22:42.going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What
:22:43. > :22:46.happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax
:22:47. > :22:49.credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe
:22:50. > :22:56.given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point
:22:57. > :22:59.where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken,
:23:00. > :23:04.it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the
:23:05. > :23:08.summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise
:23:09. > :23:11.the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being
:23:12. > :23:16.higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the
:23:17. > :23:19.consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take
:23:20. > :23:23.collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go,
:23:24. > :23:26.but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument.
:23:27. > :23:29.There was another attempt before the spending review last year to
:23:30. > :23:35.increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed
:23:36. > :23:38.to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last
:23:39. > :23:44.year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of
:23:45. > :23:47.that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if
:23:48. > :23:51.we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is
:23:52. > :23:54.singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the
:23:55. > :24:00.paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of
:24:01. > :24:06.the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a
:24:07. > :24:12.diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate
:24:13. > :24:16.will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I
:24:17. > :24:20.will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you
:24:21. > :24:24.put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed
:24:25. > :24:28.it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed
:24:29. > :24:32.circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne
:24:33. > :24:37.introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe
:24:38. > :24:41.so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I
:24:42. > :24:45.don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax
:24:46. > :24:53.threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is
:24:54. > :24:58.in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto,
:24:59. > :25:04.and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to
:25:05. > :25:07.improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green
:25:08. > :25:10.paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes
:25:11. > :25:14.necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be
:25:15. > :25:18.done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work
:25:19. > :25:22.and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort
:25:23. > :25:27.our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make
:25:28. > :25:30.sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what
:25:31. > :25:34.you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would
:25:35. > :25:41.that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on
:25:42. > :25:47.in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would
:25:48. > :25:51.it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is
:25:52. > :25:56.first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where
:25:57. > :25:59.they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the
:26:00. > :26:05.re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the
:26:06. > :26:09.IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying,
:26:10. > :26:13.and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group,
:26:14. > :26:17.because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less
:26:18. > :26:22.incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We
:26:23. > :26:27.don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I
:26:28. > :26:36.would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,.
:26:37. > :26:39.-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would
:26:40. > :26:47.prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold
:26:48. > :26:52.razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%,
:26:53. > :26:55.getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal
:26:56. > :26:59.Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written
:27:00. > :27:03.by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic
:27:04. > :27:07.and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that
:27:08. > :27:14.people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take
:27:15. > :27:20.on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %?
:27:21. > :27:25.This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that
:27:26. > :27:30.enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five
:27:31. > :27:32.deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to
:27:33. > :27:38.Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing,
:27:39. > :27:41.genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to
:27:42. > :27:45.make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think
:27:46. > :27:51.she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have
:27:52. > :27:55.a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto
:27:56. > :28:00.commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the
:28:01. > :28:03.personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to
:28:04. > :28:08.an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock
:28:09. > :28:15.that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor?
:28:16. > :28:19.What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now
:28:20. > :28:22.the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations
:28:23. > :28:26.Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as
:28:27. > :28:32.a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings.
:28:33. > :28:37.It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about
:28:38. > :28:41.ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but
:28:42. > :28:45.after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and
:28:46. > :28:50.allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the
:28:51. > :28:54.triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under
:28:55. > :28:58.pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money
:28:59. > :29:02.out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on
:29:03. > :29:05.the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are
:29:06. > :29:09.up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by
:29:10. > :29:14.Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay
:29:15. > :29:25.for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock
:29:26. > :29:29.and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about?
:29:30. > :29:31.As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the
:29:32. > :29:34.intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us.
:29:35. > :29:36.Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg -
:29:37. > :29:39.who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist.
:29:40. > :29:43.That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took
:29:44. > :29:46.against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist
:29:47. > :29:50.Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November
:29:51. > :29:53.2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council
:29:54. > :29:55.of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British
:29:56. > :30:01.In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker
:30:02. > :30:03.who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds.
:30:04. > :30:07.From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been
:30:08. > :30:11.involved in a number of community organisations, including
:30:12. > :30:13.the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham,
:30:14. > :30:18.Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education
:30:19. > :30:21.and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital.
:30:22. > :30:26.But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called
:30:27. > :30:29.Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local
:30:30. > :30:33.community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences
:30:34. > :30:38.he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism.
:30:39. > :30:41.The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally
:30:42. > :30:43.outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses
:30:44. > :30:47.terrorists - as particularly sinister.
:30:48. > :30:49.The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise
:30:50. > :30:55.Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that
:30:56. > :30:59.Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated.
:31:00. > :31:03.We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer
:31:04. > :31:05.on their Religious Education Committee.
:31:06. > :31:07.The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that
:31:08. > :31:12.Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group
:31:13. > :31:21.in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group.
:31:22. > :31:25.I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam
:31:26. > :31:33.Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a
:31:34. > :31:39.statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject
:31:40. > :31:41.the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and
:31:42. > :31:47.unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam
:31:48. > :31:52.What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At
:31:53. > :31:56.the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he
:31:57. > :32:01.belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque
:32:02. > :32:06.would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be
:32:07. > :32:09.saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and
:32:10. > :32:15.extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very
:32:16. > :32:22.important decision and a very important judgment by the judge
:32:23. > :32:26.First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer
:32:27. > :32:31.of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of
:32:32. > :32:35.things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand
:32:36. > :32:41.by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody
:32:42. > :32:46.who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential
:32:47. > :32:51.libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and
:32:52. > :32:56.people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's
:32:57. > :33:00.some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who
:33:01. > :33:04.promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a
:33:05. > :33:08.step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing
:33:09. > :33:16.within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really
:33:17. > :33:21.concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were
:33:22. > :33:29.consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What
:33:30. > :33:39.is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It
:33:40. > :33:42.comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for
:33:43. > :33:51.them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist
:33:52. > :33:53.to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a
:33:54. > :33:57.revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And
:33:58. > :34:04.then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc.
:34:05. > :34:07.We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has,
:34:08. > :34:13.growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political
:34:14. > :34:17.ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular
:34:18. > :34:23.problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the
:34:24. > :34:25.theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that
:34:26. > :34:31.excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good
:34:32. > :34:34.to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi
:34:35. > :34:42.problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of
:34:43. > :34:47.mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on
:34:48. > :34:52.the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll
:34:53. > :34:58.and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are
:34:59. > :35:03.speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we
:35:04. > :35:07.have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in
:35:08. > :35:11.prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But
:35:12. > :35:15.there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will
:35:16. > :35:20.show one face to the community because they actually need that for
:35:21. > :35:24.a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to
:35:25. > :35:27.operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their
:35:28. > :35:33.constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these
:35:34. > :35:36.people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more.
:35:37. > :35:44.And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque
:35:45. > :35:48.stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you
:35:49. > :35:53.surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with
:35:54. > :35:56.Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that
:35:57. > :36:02.decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with
:36:03. > :36:04.extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I
:36:05. > :36:10.don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge
:36:11. > :36:13.that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an
:36:14. > :36:18.extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have
:36:19. > :36:23.a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a
:36:24. > :36:26.law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated
:36:27. > :36:31.violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there
:36:32. > :36:35.is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into
:36:36. > :36:39.question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other
:36:40. > :36:45.Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to
:36:46. > :36:54.say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties
:36:55. > :36:59.from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure
:37:00. > :37:04.could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make
:37:05. > :37:11.it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg
:37:12. > :37:14.has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have
:37:15. > :37:22.to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they
:37:23. > :37:26.say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem.
:37:27. > :37:30.But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner
:37:31. > :37:34.and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose
:37:35. > :37:36.them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us.
:37:37. > :37:39.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:40. > :37:41.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:42. > :37:55.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:37:56. > :37:58.Hello and a warm welcome to your local part of the show.
:37:59. > :38:00.This week, good news for Nissan as the government offers "stpport
:38:01. > :38:02.and assurances" about life after Brexit,
:38:03. > :38:06.but what about the rest of the region's industries?
:38:07. > :38:10.I will be asking my guests, North East Labour Euro-MP P`ul
:38:11. > :38:14.Brannen and Guy Opperman, the Conservative MP for Hexham.
:38:15. > :38:16.And we will be getting reaction from the chairman of UKIP
:38:17. > :38:23.Also this week, do our councils have enough money to provide adepuate
:38:24. > :38:28.care to older and disabled people? We report from Cumbria.
:38:29. > :38:30.It has been a week dominated by transport.
:38:31. > :38:33.We will talk about Nissan and the motor industry in a moment,
:38:34. > :38:35.but let us get a reaction fhrst to the expansion
:38:36. > :38:38.Transport Secretary Chris Grayling came to Newcastle this week,
:38:39. > :38:41.to explain how a third runw`y would be good for business
:38:42. > :38:46.And as part of the Heathrow deal, he said Durham Tees Valley @irport
:38:47. > :38:52.will also see the reintroduction of flights to London.
:38:53. > :38:54.Another big expansion announcement for the south?
:38:55. > :38:57.Crumbs from the table for this region?
:38:58. > :39:04.This is what the Chamber of Commerce, the airports and `ll the
:39:05. > :39:06.local businesses have been asking for ages.
:39:07. > :39:11.And it was very significant that the first place the Tr`nsport
:39:12. > :39:14.Secretary went to after the announcement about Heathrow Airport
:39:15. > :39:18.Coming to Newcastle Airport, explaining how
:39:19. > :39:21.the connectivity we will get by the expansion of Heathrow,
:39:22. > :39:23.making the north-east a much better place for business
:39:24. > :39:27.Better for business and generally
:39:28. > :39:32.If you can explain Labour's position on this you are a
:39:33. > :39:38.A lot of local Labour MPs s`y it is that a good decision.
:39:39. > :39:39.They are enthusiastic about the expansion of Heathrow
:39:40. > :39:42.The party leadership does not seem to know, does it?
:39:43. > :39:44.I think both of the major parties have politicians on
:39:45. > :39:47.There are people in the Conservative Party
:39:48. > :39:49.opposed to the expansion of Heathrow.
:39:50. > :39:50.I personally am a long-standing climate change
:39:51. > :39:53.campaigner and I am not happy about the expansion of air
:39:54. > :39:55.travel at the moment, when we are trying to tackld
:39:56. > :40:02.Does the party not need to come to some sort of conclusion?
:40:03. > :40:04.The divisions within the Conservative Party, but the
:40:05. > :40:13.We are not in the position to have to take that decision.
:40:14. > :40:15.The Labour Party position, as I understand it
:40:16. > :40:18.at the moment, is that the party is in favour of an expansion to
:40:19. > :40:22.But there are senior figures within the party, going right
:40:23. > :40:25.to the top of the leadership, who are not happy with the decision.
:40:26. > :40:29.I think it is a story which will be rumbling
:40:30. > :40:34.Now, Nissan's decision to build two new models
:40:35. > :40:36.at its Sunderland plant is, everybody accepts, great
:40:37. > :40:38.But what are the political implications?
:40:39. > :40:41.Labour says the government needs to come clean on any secret deal,
:40:42. > :40:44.while ministers deny taxpaydrs' cash has been promised to the colpany.
:40:45. > :40:46.It has all come in the week MPs at Westminster debated
:40:47. > :40:54.the impact Brexit will have upon the North East's econoly.
:40:55. > :40:56.The news from Nissan was grdat for the North East -
:40:57. > :41:01.The PM and other ministers had several meetings with the company
:41:02. > :41:04.and believe the reassurances they offered were crucial.
:41:05. > :41:06.They have been convinced, through the conversations wd have
:41:07. > :41:12.had, that the government sh`res their enthusiasm and is detdrmined,
:41:13. > :41:16.as part of our industrial strategy, that this will be the best place in
:41:17. > :41:18.the world for them to make these investments.
:41:19. > :41:20.We have been showing Nissan and others that we are
:41:21. > :41:23.determined to get the best possible deal from the future relationship
:41:24. > :41:25.we will be negotiating with the European Union.
:41:26. > :41:27.We wish to ensure - and asstre the competitiveness
:41:28. > :41:34.Nissan say they were not offered any special deal.
:41:35. > :41:36.Ministers say no cheque book was flourished.
:41:37. > :41:40.assurances could lead to anx financial commitment.
:41:41. > :41:42.Ahead of the announcement, concerns were raised in Parliament
:41:43. > :41:48.I believe it is incumbent on the government to tell us
:41:49. > :41:54.Because it seems to me that the much-vaunted windf`ll
:41:55. > :41:59.to the Exchequer of not being in the EU will not be
:42:00. > :42:03.available for spending in the NHS, if ever it was, because it will be
:42:04. > :42:06.needed to subsidise industrx in a way we did not need to before.
:42:07. > :42:08.Other North East MPs want to know what may be
:42:09. > :42:12.If some sort of agreement is made around the automotive
:42:13. > :42:14.industry, that would not necessarily involve all of the companies
:42:15. > :42:16.involved in the supply chain to Nissan.
:42:17. > :42:18.Because they also produce p`rts for other companies'
:42:19. > :42:20.manufacturing, they would not necessarily be protected by any
:42:21. > :42:29.special deal being done for the automotive industry.
:42:30. > :42:30.What about the rest of the manufacturing
:42:31. > :42:35.What are ministers planning to do to safeguard their interests?
:42:36. > :42:38.What of the growing tech st`rt-ups in my constituency and elsewhere?
:42:39. > :42:41.But for Brexiteers this is proof positive that the region's
:42:42. > :42:43.industries will thrive outwith the EU and even
:42:44. > :42:51.I find it very depressing that Labour continue to ignore
:42:52. > :42:53.both the wishes of the North East voters, who made it very,
:42:54. > :42:55.very clear that they wanted a different relationship
:42:56. > :43:03.with the EU, by voting in enormous numbers to leave.
:43:04. > :43:07.I have had business knocking on my door consistently durhng
:43:08. > :43:10.the summer excited about the prospect of exporting in a more
:43:11. > :43:17.Being in the single market is not the be
:43:18. > :43:23.Nissan will be remaining here post-Brexit, but questhons
:43:24. > :43:26.remain about the type of de`l they got and what other deals might
:43:27. > :43:32.be on offer for other industries in the region.
:43:33. > :43:34.But you were one of the dool-mongers during the referendum.
:43:35. > :43:36.You told us that Brexit would jeopardise jobs
:43:37. > :43:39.You were wrong and the government is doing everything
:43:40. > :43:42.it can to make sure there is a thriving automotive industry
:43:43. > :43:44.in the north-east well into the future.
:43:45. > :43:46.I am very happy to say this is absolutely fantastic news.
:43:47. > :43:50.It is the best piece of news I have heard since the decision to leave
:43:51. > :43:53.I am delighted for the north-east and
:43:54. > :43:55.delighted for the people who work at Nissan.
:43:56. > :43:58.And also delighted for the people who work in the supply chain,
:43:59. > :44:00.because there is a lot more jobs at stake than purely those
:44:01. > :44:04.It is fantastic news, but I think there is a
:44:05. > :44:06.question about what the arrangement has been.
:44:07. > :44:09.We may have a rather odd situation now, where senior
:44:10. > :44:17.people within Nissan Japan know more about
:44:18. > :44:19.our Brexit arrangements than we know in our own country,
:44:20. > :44:21.particularly in the House of Commons.
:44:22. > :44:23.Ministers have been a bit shady about the details of this.
:44:24. > :44:27.The conclusion has to be th`t some sort of deal was cooked up.
:44:28. > :44:29.They are a company with their head screwed on.
:44:30. > :44:33.Going back to your tape, Nissan accepted that
:44:34. > :44:37.there was no cash incentives, nothing of that manner.
:44:38. > :44:46.What they have said is that we will ensure that the United Kingdom and
:44:47. > :44:50.the north-east is the most competitive place to do bushness,
:44:51. > :44:56.the easiest place to do manufacturing and the best
:44:57. > :45:03.corporation tax and investmdnt rates. The corporation tax. It is no
:45:04. > :45:10.less and 20%. Investment support, apprenticeships, they arrow. All of
:45:11. > :45:15.us in the weeks Nissan were saying they were very concerned. They had
:45:16. > :45:19.multiple meetings with ministers, the impression given in somd
:45:20. > :45:25.newspapers is that Nissan worker told you will not lose out because
:45:26. > :45:31.of Brexit. The implication was that there may not be money no, but there
:45:32. > :45:36.could be in the future. No, they were told that the United Khngdom
:45:37. > :45:41.was totally the best place for you to do business. Better than other
:45:42. > :45:48.places in Europe. You seem that is all they did to persuade thd
:45:49. > :45:54.company? Why not tell us wh`t the deal actually was? This shotld apply
:45:55. > :46:01.to all businesses, from a corner shop to every business in the
:46:02. > :46:12.country. It just happens th`t Nissan was the first in the queue for
:46:13. > :46:15.discussion. Fiona, this is not a Brexit vivid income a better deal
:46:16. > :46:20.having to be made with a colpany, all of which will have to bd done in
:46:21. > :46:26.the future. The company said there was no financial deal made. It is in
:46:27. > :46:30.everyone's interest that we have free trade after we leave the
:46:31. > :46:38.European Union. If all the discussions feel, it will cost the
:46:39. > :46:44.European Union more tariffs. We are in a very strong position. H think
:46:45. > :46:50.we will get the free trade deal There is no certainty that.
:46:51. > :46:58.Common-sense dictates that we will. Tony Blair has suggested th`t Nissan
:46:59. > :47:05.were told that we would be pursuing a deal which would get is a town of
:47:06. > :47:13.three deal in the market. Clearly, something has happened. Nissan Had
:47:14. > :47:18.concerns and worries. Why don't we short-circuit the whole process If
:47:19. > :47:21.there are going to be a serhes of meetings with other companids, why
:47:22. > :47:27.does the Minister not come out and seek these are the arrangemdnts
:47:28. > :47:36.employees for all companies. This is what we have struck with Nissan and
:47:37. > :47:42.we will do the same with others If there are other negotiations, for
:47:43. > :47:46.help will be on offer to other businesses and corporations? Just
:47:47. > :47:53.relating to corporation tax? We need to make sure we have the most
:47:54. > :47:57.competitive country in Europe. The objective is clear. We wish to seek
:47:58. > :48:04.access to the single market with greater control over borders,
:48:05. > :48:08.sovereignty and the legal sxstem. How you take forward that is the
:48:09. > :48:16.prospect of two and a half xears negotiation. But you have to give
:48:17. > :48:22.reassurance to business. Will every industry have helped? It is not the
:48:23. > :48:28.question of help. It is not the type of situation. It is making sure of
:48:29. > :48:33.this country and this region is the most competitive place to do Europe
:48:34. > :48:41.-- business in the hall of Durope. Europe preference for a heart
:48:42. > :48:46.Brexit, leaving the single larket is quickly as possible, could be
:48:47. > :48:54.disastrous for export industries? Ideally, we want a free trade
:48:55. > :48:58.agreement. But you also want control of the Borders, which the Etropean
:48:59. > :49:03.Union hubby Collier will not happen. Obviously, we have a trade deficit
:49:04. > :49:10.and it isn't the interest to strike a deal. If the debt given a good
:49:11. > :49:16.deal, other countries could look at this and say, we would be bdtter
:49:17. > :49:23.looking at the -- leaving the European Union. Surely it is in
:49:24. > :49:25.their interest to play very hard with the United Kingdom. I do not
:49:26. > :49:35.think there is anything to worry about in that regard. Even hf we had
:49:36. > :49:37.to resort to world trade organisation rules, we will be
:49:38. > :49:38.better off. Now, Labour has warned
:49:39. > :49:41.that the majority of local councils can no longer afford the cost
:49:42. > :49:43.of providing adequate They say rising demand,
:49:44. > :49:46.coupled with government cuts, is putting unprecedented prdssure
:49:47. > :49:48.upon services for the most But the government says loc`l
:49:49. > :49:51.authorities can raise more loney from the council tax to spend
:49:52. > :49:54.on the care system. Caring for those who need it,
:49:55. > :50:01.the mark of a compassionate society. Hal is autistic and has
:50:02. > :50:06.a learning disability. But the future of his care
:50:07. > :50:08.is still undecided and the Both Cumbria County
:50:09. > :50:11.Council and the NHS are involved, but neither
:50:12. > :50:14.would comment on the case. I think there are massive
:50:15. > :50:16.staff shortages. It is affecting those
:50:17. > :50:27.who are vulnerable. People like Kyle can't even
:50:28. > :50:29.do their own shopping. I have got a little
:50:30. > :50:32.bit of confidence. I have been fighting for hil
:50:33. > :50:35.since he was three years old. Adult social care is mainly
:50:36. > :50:37.funded by local councils. So, what is the picture
:50:38. > :50:39.in our region? Cumbria County Council
:50:40. > :50:41.is trying to save ?24 million Durham Council is consulting on
:50:42. > :50:48.savings of ?12.5 million next year. Newcastle Council is trying to cut
:50:49. > :50:53.over ?18 million over four xears. And Cleveland is saving
:50:54. > :50:59.?6.5 million over four years. This is a huge challenge
:51:00. > :51:09.for county councils. Not only have they been havhng
:51:10. > :51:11.to cope with government cuts over the past six years,
:51:12. > :51:14.which have been very severe, but you also have an ageing
:51:15. > :51:17.population and you are also having to increase staffing costs
:51:18. > :51:19.because of the introduction of So, it is a massive challenge,
:51:20. > :51:22.but we cannot let down the most vulnerable
:51:23. > :51:24.people in our society. We did ask the Care Minister
:51:25. > :51:27.to take part in the He did send us
:51:28. > :51:30.a statement, pointing out that councils can now incre`se
:51:31. > :51:32.funds for social care But where savings are being made,
:51:33. > :51:58.it is not easy for those affected to always
:51:59. > :52:01.understand what is going on. Any changes whatsoever
:52:02. > :52:03.have an impact on carers. The consultations are quite
:52:04. > :52:05.difficult to read through and I think they sometimes
:52:06. > :52:19.do lack a bit of explanation as to how they have
:52:20. > :52:21.come to these decisions. Cumbria County Council
:52:22. > :52:22.declined to be interviewed. It did say it had been transparent
:52:23. > :52:25.in publicising a wide range of saving options
:52:26. > :52:27.with the public. There is now a consultation
:52:28. > :52:29.in Cumbria about closing care homes and, across the system,
:52:30. > :52:34.there is a lot of uncertainty. What is going to happen?
:52:35. > :53:03.What is going to happen to him? When ministers talk about council 's
:53:04. > :53:13.raising more money by incre`sing council tax, they are always been
:53:14. > :53:19.faced with these huge cuts. Counsels us for greater fundraising powers.
:53:20. > :53:26.This 2% increase in council tax That allows them to raise money But
:53:27. > :53:33.the also have to look at how they run individual councils. In
:53:34. > :53:40.Northumberland, they are pl`nning to spend ?50 million a new centre. But
:53:41. > :53:45.you know it would not make ` difference to the social care
:53:46. > :53:49.budget. It is a different p`rt of money. You cannot have a situation
:53:50. > :53:55.Priya Northumberland is continually in debt and chooses to go bty
:53:56. > :54:03.shopping centres. You cannot do that and then say, you can have the %
:54:04. > :54:09.and run it in a better way. But this is councils across the north-east.
:54:10. > :54:14.We all recognise there is a problem with the National Health Service and
:54:15. > :54:17.social services not integrating in a better way. Successive governments
:54:18. > :54:26.have addressed this with grdater and more difficulty. There are dxamples
:54:27. > :54:35.of integrated systems. That is the way forward. When you bring the two
:54:36. > :54:41.services together. When things come under one roof, as they do hn
:54:42. > :54:49.Manchester, that is a success story. Councils will get that extr` money
:54:50. > :54:54.from council tax. The government is recognising it as an issue `nd
:54:55. > :54:58.dealing with it? One of the difficulties of the option of
:54:59. > :55:07.raising council tax, you max get punished, an election. Therd is an
:55:08. > :55:14.issue there. There are two other things. One is the bigger phcture.
:55:15. > :55:18.Labour do not cause the recdssion, the Conservatives did not c`use a
:55:19. > :55:23.recession. When there is a shortage of money, when we have the lowest
:55:24. > :55:31.borrowing rates. The governlent should be borrowing. So, more
:55:32. > :55:38.borrowing, for more money at this? No, not at all. We talk abott this
:55:39. > :55:43.year after year. What has this got to do with the vulnerable pdople
:55:44. > :55:48.that the councils may well be choosing to spend money on other
:55:49. > :55:53.things? Do the big infrastrtcture projects, employ more peopld we have
:55:54. > :56:00.got high unemployment here, more money for taxes, more for the
:56:01. > :56:06.government to hand out. Less austerity. That is not a short-term
:56:07. > :56:12.solution. These cuts to sochal care, is that not the root of the problem.
:56:13. > :56:18.It is very short-sighted because it puts dwarf strain on hospit`ls. If
:56:19. > :56:24.you spent more than social care you make is to help ease the burden on
:56:25. > :56:30.the National Health Service. We want social care and hospitals to work
:56:31. > :56:36.hand in glove. Take Manchester. They have come together to address this
:56:37. > :56:44.problem. Is it all about throwing more money on a system? No,. You
:56:45. > :56:50.have got the ability through raising council tax to adopt ?241 mhllion to
:56:51. > :56:55.the system. Whatever you thhnk about the economic future, this is not the
:56:56. > :57:01.way to handle this. We are doing is taking money away here meanhng we
:57:02. > :57:03.have to spend more on the N`tional Health Service. Elderly people are
:57:04. > :57:06.falling down all because thdy are falling down all because thdy are
:57:07. > :57:12.not that the key of the need, the ending up in hospital for long
:57:13. > :57:14.periods of time. They could have been staying or for a relathvely
:57:15. > :57:16.small amount of money. Now, normally at this point
:57:17. > :57:19.in the programme we bring you 6 Seconds ? our round-up
:57:20. > :57:21.of the week s political news. But this week, we thought
:57:22. > :57:23.you would enjoy something a little bit different -
:57:24. > :57:25.a light-hearted moment from the Commons, as the MP
:57:26. > :57:27.for Bishop Auckland, Helen Goodman, considered
:57:28. > :57:29.the important issues of light pollution, Brexit and,
:57:30. > :57:32.erm, the problems of mating birds. Light pollution is not just
:57:33. > :57:34.a problem for those wanting It is also confusing for birds,
:57:35. > :57:38.who get confused as to when They sing for so long
:57:39. > :57:42.that they do not have any I am sure the minister
:57:43. > :57:47.will understand I wish to hear the Honourable
:57:48. > :58:10.lady, at such point that she has the opportunitx
:58:11. > :58:19.to regain the necessary composure! From birds to big cats now,
:58:20. > :58:22.In particular, this beast, which in case you do not recognise
:58:23. > :58:25.it, is a Eurasian Lynx. It has been suggested that five
:58:26. > :58:28.pairs of them could be rele`sed into the wild at Kielder
:58:29. > :58:30.forest in Northumberland. It is an idea that's
:58:31. > :58:32.not gone down very well with farmers and the local LP,
:58:33. > :58:54.who has called the idea "cr`zy" I like cats. What is wrong with the
:58:55. > :59:00.lynx? This is a lot bigger than a domestic cat and it happens to eat
:59:01. > :59:12.sheep, attack other animals. Every farmer Ray spoken to thinks it is a
:59:13. > :59:16.terrible idea. -- you have surveyed everyone? I have sent letters to 400
:59:17. > :59:32.people in that district. They were here a hundred ye`rs ago.
:59:33. > :59:43.What are we going to do next, introduce dinosaurs? It is hard to
:59:44. > :59:50.be a farmer when they are bding told that we are going to reintroduce
:59:51. > :59:56.lynx, so look forward to losing your sheep. I am more open-minded about
:59:57. > :00:00.this. They are having a major consultation about this. It is not a
:00:01. > :00:11.decision which will be taken lightly. There is an opinion poll
:00:12. > :00:19.that 90% of people think th`t it is a good idea. Not in my district
:00:20. > :00:28.they do not. People living hn London came to see these sort of things.
:00:29. > :00:35.But they actually have a vidw. Taxpayers down there are subsidising
:00:36. > :00:41.the rural areas. So they ard entitled to the queue. We do not
:00:42. > :00:43.believe in large cats terrorising local populations!
:00:44. > :00:55.And that is about it from us for this week.
:00:56. > :00:59.Barely more than a week now until polling day,
:01:00. > :01:09.and a new revelation rocks the US Presidential election campaign.
:01:10. > :01:12.If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just got more bizarre.
:01:13. > :01:15.The FBI have reopened their investigation into Hillary Clinton's
:01:16. > :01:17.use of private email servers whilst she was Secretary
:01:18. > :01:25.of State, after the discovery of further emails.
:01:26. > :01:30.Though not on her laptop or even the State Department.
:01:31. > :01:32.Donald Trump is saying that it's bigger than Watergate -
:01:33. > :01:35.so could it swing the election in his favour?
:01:36. > :01:36.We spoke to top US pollster, Frank Luntz.
:01:37. > :01:40.The FBI investigation is happening so late in the election process
:01:41. > :01:44.that it would be very difficult to derail a Clinton victory.
:01:45. > :01:47.That said, if there is one thing that could keep Hillary Clinton
:01:48. > :01:53.from the presidency, it's an FBI investigation.
:01:54. > :01:55.But there's still only four states that really matter, Florida, Ohio,
:01:56. > :02:00.Right now, Clinton has beyond the margin of error leads
:02:01. > :02:07.This would have to have a truly significant impact for the election
:02:08. > :02:15.There is a point about a week ago when I was prepared to say that
:02:16. > :02:20.Clinton had a 95% chance of winning this election.
:02:21. > :02:26.Based on what has happened in the last 48 hours,
:02:27. > :02:31.It is still very likely, but I wouldn't bet on it.
:02:32. > :02:34.I thought the 2000 election would be the best election of my lifetime,
:02:35. > :02:39.And then I thought 2008 would be amazing, because we had two
:02:40. > :02:43.challenger candidates and the first African-American President.
:02:44. > :02:52.It is ugly, it's painful, it is as negative as anything
:02:53. > :02:57.The public is angry, the country, overall, is frustrated.
:02:58. > :03:04.But for entertainment value, these candidates probably should
:03:05. > :03:08.have charged us money, because it's better than any movie
:03:09. > :03:10.at ever seen, it's better than any TV show.
:03:11. > :03:22.That was Frank Luntz. He may be right or wrong about Mrs Clinton
:03:23. > :03:30.still having an 80% chance of winning. I would bet on an 80%
:03:31. > :03:34.chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to a high-profile American pollster and
:03:35. > :03:40.strategist last night and he took a rather different view to Frank
:03:41. > :03:43.Luntz. He thought, and I think some other high-profile commentators
:03:44. > :03:47.agree, that this is actually much more serious than some people
:03:48. > :03:53.realise. There are an awful lot of undecided voters out there looking
:03:54. > :03:57.for an excuse to vote Trump. They do not like what they see in either
:03:58. > :04:01.candidate. But because this FBI probe is not going to conclude
:04:02. > :04:07.before the election, the question, the doubt over Hillary Clinton,
:04:08. > :04:12.gives them an excuse to back Trump. The thing that will play on the
:04:13. > :04:16.minds of the voters is, could the 100 day honeymoon turning to the 100
:04:17. > :04:22.day divorce? Which even be impeached? It may give some people
:04:23. > :04:26.an excuse not to vote for Mrs Clinton. It could provide a problem
:04:27. > :04:33.in terms of energising her base The battle ground almost matters more
:04:34. > :04:39.than the polls. Florida and Pennsylvania have been trending to
:04:40. > :04:45.Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win both. He does not get in without
:04:46. > :04:51.both. He needs both. Just coming up in the latest BBC News, the
:04:52. > :04:57.Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs Clinton is now only one point ahead
:04:58. > :05:02.in the national poll. One point Even given my caveat that the state
:05:03. > :05:08.battles are most important. That is incredibly close? It is. Polls
:05:09. > :05:15.yesterday showed Trump nationally closing of. -- up. There is a clear
:05:16. > :05:19.trend and movement. This has reinforced everything that people
:05:20. > :05:23.who have a problem with Hillary Clinton know about Hillary Clinton.
:05:24. > :05:28.Trump is running this insurgent campaign. We have seen at here with
:05:29. > :05:32.Brexit. If you are running an insurgent campaign, you want to be
:05:33. > :05:36.against the ultimate establishment insider and that is what Hillary
:05:37. > :05:42.Clinton is. I suggested it was bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of
:05:43. > :05:46.the FBI is interesting as well. This is a separate investigation into a
:05:47. > :05:50.former congressman, Anthony Wiener, who had done all sorts of things. He
:05:51. > :05:59.seemed to be sex text thing a minor. A 15-year-old girl. The FBI
:06:00. > :06:06.investigate. They get his laptop to see what else he has been too. In
:06:07. > :06:09.the course of that, his wife, now separated, the closest adviser to
:06:10. > :06:19.Hillary Clinton, they find on the laptop e-mails involving the Clinton
:06:20. > :06:26.server to her. And yet the FBI cannot, it needs now a separate
:06:27. > :06:29.warrant to access these e-mails It hasn't got that yet. It has got a
:06:30. > :06:36.warrant to do the congressman e-mails. On the basis of not knowing
:06:37. > :06:43.the content, this has happened. Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican,
:06:44. > :06:48.this guy. Earlier this year he was being praised to the hilt by
:06:49. > :06:53.Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is a nightmare for her. You described
:06:54. > :06:58.the whole sequence. There is nothing definitive to doubt in this
:06:59. > :07:05.sequence. All he is saying is he has discovered more e-mails in effect.
:07:06. > :07:12.They are from the congressman's former wife. On Anthony Wiener's
:07:13. > :07:19.laptop, which apparently she used sometimes. But what that shows is
:07:20. > :07:24.that for all the scrutiny of modern politicians, they cannot escape
:07:25. > :07:28.caricature. And as Tim was just saying, her weakness is perceived to
:07:29. > :07:33.be secretive, elitism and complacency about that elitism. And
:07:34. > :07:38.so just the announcement of a reopening of the investigation so
:07:39. > :07:42.fuels that caricature, you have just revealed a poll giving her a 1%
:07:43. > :07:48.lead. That must be related to what has happened. It is without a shred
:07:49. > :07:54.of evidence that she has done anything wrong. You can see how
:07:55. > :07:59.because people only see things encourage kids, that is deadly
:08:00. > :08:03.serious. -- in caricature. An American friend of mine said we have
:08:04. > :08:10.got our October surprise but we don't know what it is. The FBI must
:08:11. > :08:18.surely come under massive pressure. It did its -- it did this against
:08:19. > :08:21.the Justice Department. The difficulty the FBI had was that this
:08:22. > :08:26.information, for what it's worth, it came to them. Were they not to have
:08:27. > :08:30.said something and it worked to have come out later, they would have been
:08:31. > :08:35.accused of a massive cover-up. They are dammed if they do, dammed if
:08:36. > :08:39.they don't. There is still time for another surprise. And early November
:08:40. > :08:44.surprise. Who knows if there might still be something that comes out on
:08:45. > :08:48.Donald Trump? This is the first election where I can remember we
:08:49. > :08:53.have had two October surprises already. There are is stuff about
:08:54. > :08:58.tapes knocking around about Donald Trump saying racist things. The
:08:59. > :09:01.Clintons have got a lot of friends. It would be a big surprise if we did
:09:02. > :09:03.not see anything else in the next few days.
:09:04. > :09:10.Just when you think it could not get more interesting, it has. There has
:09:11. > :09:11.been plenty in the papers lately about the Ukip leadership saying
:09:12. > :09:14.unpleasant things about each other. But what about Mr Farage himself?
:09:15. > :09:17.What's he up to? Well, on BBC Two tonight we may
:09:18. > :09:19.find out the answer. Well, I'm led to believe
:09:20. > :09:26.she's very experienced. But I don't think Strictly Come
:09:27. > :09:29.Dancing is for me. That is, unless, of course,
:09:30. > :09:35.you fancy popping a cheeky zero No, I don't think Strictly
:09:36. > :09:38.Come Dancing is for me. Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just
:09:39. > :09:45.lost your programme one viewer. I might have nothing to do these
:09:46. > :10:07.days but, realistically, Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It
:10:08. > :10:12.is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel Farage gets his life back. A number
:10:13. > :10:17.of runners and riders. Let's come straight down to it. Who would be
:10:18. > :10:22.the next leader of Ukip? Probably Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite.
:10:23. > :10:28.The one who has the backing, not very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim
:10:29. > :10:39.Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a big donor. The best of a rather weak
:10:40. > :10:50.lot. I think Paul Nuttall should squeak through. I interviewed all
:10:51. > :10:53.three of them this week. Mr Cassandra is a lively character and
:10:54. > :10:56.he knows how to make a few headlines. With a bit of money
:10:57. > :11:00.behind him, anything is possible. This is a guy who has been to the
:11:01. > :11:11.States, who has literally studied what Trump has done. Pees on
:11:12. > :11:18.secondment for the time being. The guy who is his line manager is one
:11:19. > :11:21.of Donald Trump's campaign stop He is extraordinarily right-wing. I am
:11:22. > :11:29.told he kept a picture of Enoch Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater
:11:30. > :11:37.is one of his heroes, for example. There are other candidates. I would
:11:38. > :11:43.suggest, put out as a hypothesis, Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst
:11:44. > :11:48.nightmare. They are more vulnerable in the North. Paul Nuttall is from
:11:49. > :11:52.Merseyside, a working-class background, performs well on
:11:53. > :11:56.television. He is a really good interviewee. He is one of the best
:11:57. > :12:01.around in politics at the moment. However, I think whoever gets it has
:12:02. > :12:08.a massive task. The clip of this Nigel Farage satire partly shows
:12:09. > :12:12.why. His dominance was overwhelming. He, in many ways, did a brilliant
:12:13. > :12:17.job at keeping the show on the road. The trouble for all new political
:12:18. > :12:22.parties is keeping it going is tough. A very different party, the
:12:23. > :12:26.SDP, with all those glamorous figures in it, lasted eight years,
:12:27. > :12:29.something like that. I think they are in real trouble at the moment
:12:30. > :12:35.because of the implosion we have been seeing in front of our eyes and
:12:36. > :12:45.the ideal -- ideological splits Whoever gets it will face a tough
:12:46. > :12:47.tussle. All three of the main contenders want to put Nigel Farage
:12:48. > :12:52.in the House of Lords. They were falling over themselves to soak up
:12:53. > :12:56.two farads. That is how you win this election.
:12:57. > :13:03.Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting his money on? He said he supports
:13:04. > :13:08.Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He
:13:09. > :13:12.thinks it is terribly disorganised, dysfunctional and doesn't want a
:13:13. > :13:14.great deal to do with it for the foreseeable future.
:13:15. > :13:19.It is not quite Trump the Clinton but it is interesting. That is it.
:13:20. > :13:25.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow. And all of next week. Jo Coburn will
:13:26. > :13:29.be your next Sunday because I am off to the United States to begin to
:13:30. > :13:36.rehearse presenting the BBC's US election night coverage on the th
:13:37. > :13:37.of November. It will be here on BBC One, BBC
:13:38. > :13:39.world, BBC News Channel and BBC online.
:13:40. > :14:09.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:10. > :14:13.A stone stained with blood and beset with a curse.
:14:14. > :14:17.The Moonstone is of inestimable value in India.
:14:18. > :14:20.Its appointed guardians would move heaven and earth to reclaim it
:14:21. > :14:29.Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.
:14:30. > :14:29.You've got to do something! It's only you that can!
:14:30. > :14:31.He's a scientist, brilliant apparently.
:14:32. > :14:40.But you may be bringing people over here who did things during the war.
:14:41. > :14:45.I will not work for you. I will not work for the British Government
:14:46. > :14:49.Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.
:14:50. > :14:53.You've got to do something! It's only you that can!