:00:39. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:44.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:45. > :00:47.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:48. > :00:50.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:51. > :00:57.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:58. > :01:00.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:01:01. > :01:07.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:08. > :01:10.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:11. > :01:13.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:14. > :01:24.Here, will the north-east and what Labour will do next.
:01:25. > :01:26.Here, will the north-east and Cumbria boys be heard during Brexit
:01:27. > :01:37.negotiations. It's curtains And to talk about all of that
:01:38. > :01:40.and more, I'm joined by three journalists who, in an era
:01:41. > :01:42.of so-called fake news, can be relied upon for their accuracy,
:01:43. > :01:46.their impartiality - and their willingness
:01:47. > :01:49.to come to the studio It's Steve Richards,
:01:50. > :01:55.Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tom Newton Dunn,
:01:56. > :02:02.and during the programme they'll be tweeting as often as the 45th
:02:03. > :02:05.President of the USA in the middle So - the Prime Minister has been
:02:06. > :02:16.appearing on the BBC this morning. She was mostly talking
:02:17. > :02:18.about Donald Trump and Brexit, but she was also asked about a story
:02:19. > :02:21.on the front of this It's reported that an unarmed
:02:22. > :02:25.Trident missile test fired from the submarine HMS Vengeance
:02:26. > :02:31.near the Florida coast in June The paper says the incident took
:02:32. > :02:39.place weeks before a crucial Commons Well, let's have listen
:02:40. > :02:43.to Theresa May talking The issue that we were talking
:02:44. > :02:49.about in the House of Commons It was about whether or not
:02:50. > :02:53.we should renew Trident, whether we should look to the future
:02:54. > :02:56.and have a replacement Trident. That's what we were talking
:02:57. > :02:59.about in the House of Commons. That's what the House
:03:00. > :03:01.of Commons voted for. He doesn't want to defend our
:03:02. > :03:06.country with an independent There are tests that take place
:03:07. > :03:14.all the time, regularly, What we were talking about in that
:03:15. > :03:22.debate that took place... I'm not going to get
:03:23. > :03:34.an answer to this. Tom, it was clear this was going to
:03:35. > :03:38.come up this morning. It is on the front page of the Sunday Times. It
:03:39. > :03:44.would seem to me the Prime Minister wasn't properly briefed on how to
:03:45. > :03:48.reply. I think she probably was, but the Prime Minister we now have
:03:49. > :03:54.doesn't necessarily answer all questions in the straightest way.
:03:55. > :04:01.She didn't answer that one and all. Unlike previous ones? She made it
:04:02. > :04:07.quite clear she was briefed. You read between the Theresa May lines.
:04:08. > :04:11.By simply not answering Andrew Marr four times, it is obvious she knew,
:04:12. > :04:16.and that she knew before she went into the House of Commons and urged
:04:17. > :04:21.everyone to renew the ?40 billion replacement programme. Of course it
:04:22. > :04:27.is an embarrassment, but does it have political legs? I don't think
:04:28. > :04:34.so. She didn't mislead the Commons. If she wanted to close it down, the
:04:35. > :04:36.answer should have been, these are matters of national security.
:04:37. > :04:41.There's nothing more important in that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm
:04:42. > :04:48.not prepared to talk about testing. End of. But she didn't. Maybe you
:04:49. > :04:52.should be briefing her. That's a good answer. She is an interesting
:04:53. > :04:57.interviewee. She shows it when she is nervous. She was transparently
:04:58. > :05:01.uneasy answering those questions, and the fact she didn't answer it
:05:02. > :05:07.definitively suggests she did know and didn't want to say it, and she
:05:08. > :05:12.answered awkwardly. But how wider point, that the House of Commons
:05:13. > :05:16.voted for the renewal of Trident, suggests to me that in the broader
:05:17. > :05:21.sweep of things, this will not run, because if there was another vote, I
:05:22. > :05:27.would suggest she'd win it again. But it is an embarrassment and she
:05:28. > :05:33.handled it with a transparent awkwardness. She said that the tests
:05:34. > :05:37.go on all the time, but not of the missiles. Does it not show that when
:05:38. > :05:42.the Prime Minister leaves her comfort zone of Home Office affairs
:05:43. > :05:47.or related matters, she often struggles. We've seen it under
:05:48. > :05:53.questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and we saw it again today. Absolutely.
:05:54. > :05:59.Tests of various aspects of the missiles go on all the time, but
:06:00. > :06:03.there's only been five since 2000. What you described wouldn't have
:06:04. > :06:08.worked, because in previous tests they have always been very public
:06:09. > :06:18.about it. Look how well our missiles work! She may not have misled
:06:19. > :06:23.Parliament, but she may not have known about it. If she didn't know,
:06:24. > :06:28.does Michael Fallon still have a job on Monday? Should Parliament know
:06:29. > :06:35.about a test that doesn't work? Some would say absolutely not. Our
:06:36. > :06:40.deterrent is there to deter people from attacking us. If they know that
:06:41. > :06:46.we are hitting the United States by mistake rather than the Atlantic
:06:47. > :06:50.Ocean, then... There is such a thing as national security, and telling
:06:51. > :06:55.all the bad guys about where we are going wrong may not be a good idea.
:06:56. > :07:00.It was her first statement as Prime Minister to put her case for
:07:01. > :07:05.renewal, to have the vote on Trident, and in that context, it is
:07:06. > :07:07.significant not to say anything. If anyone knows where the missile
:07:08. > :07:10.landed, give us a call! So Donald Trump's inauguration day
:07:11. > :07:13.closed with him dancing to Frank Sinatra's My Way,
:07:14. > :07:15.and whatever your view on the 45th President of the United States
:07:16. > :07:18.he certainly did do it his way. Not for him the idealistic call
:07:19. > :07:21.for national unity - instead he used Friday's inaugural
:07:22. > :07:23.address to launch a blistering attack on the dark state
:07:24. > :07:26.of the nation and the political class, and to promise
:07:27. > :07:31.to take his uncompromising approach from the campaign trail
:07:32. > :07:35.to the White House. Here's Adam Fleming,
:07:36. > :07:39.with a reminder of how First, dropping by for a cup of tea
:07:40. > :07:47.and a slightly awkward exchange Then, friends, foes
:07:48. > :07:56.and predecessors watched I, Donald John Trump,
:07:57. > :08:03.do solemnly swear... The crowds seemed smaller
:08:04. > :08:07.than previous inaugurations, the speech tougher then any
:08:08. > :08:12.previous incoming president. From this day forth,
:08:13. > :08:19.it's going to be only America first. In the meantime, there were sporadic
:08:20. > :08:44.protests in Washington, DC. Opponents made their voices heard
:08:45. > :08:48.around the world too. The President,
:08:49. > :08:50.who'd criticised the work of the intelligence agencies,
:08:51. > :08:54.fitted in a visit to the CIA. There is nobody that feels stronger
:08:55. > :08:58.about the intelligence community And, back at the office,
:08:59. > :09:10.in the dark, a signature signalled the end of the Obama era
:09:11. > :09:15.and the dawn of Trump. So, as you heard there,
:09:16. > :09:22.President Trump used his inauguration to repeat his campaign
:09:23. > :09:24.promise to put "America first" in all his decisions, and offered
:09:25. > :09:42.some hints of what to expect He talked of in America in carnage,
:09:43. > :09:45.to be rebuilt by American hands and American Labour. President Trump has
:09:46. > :09:51.already started to dismantle key parts of the Obama Legacy, including
:09:52. > :09:55.the unwinding of the affordable care act, and the siding of the climate
:09:56. > :10:00.action plan to tackle global warning. Little to say about foreign
:10:01. > :10:05.policy, but promised to eradicate Islamic terrorism from the face of
:10:06. > :10:09.the Earth, insisting he would restore the US military to
:10:10. > :10:15.unquestioning dominance. He also said the US would develop a state
:10:16. > :10:20.missile defence system to deal with threats he sees from Iran and North
:10:21. > :10:26.Korea. In a statement that painted a bleak picture of the country he now
:10:27. > :10:31.runs, he said his would be a law and order Administration, and he would
:10:32. > :10:36.keep the innocents safe by building the border war with Mexico. One
:10:37. > :10:41.thing he didn't mention, for the first time ever, there is a
:10:42. > :10:44.Eurosceptic in the oval office, who is also an enthusiast for Brexit.
:10:45. > :10:47.We're joined now by Ted Malloch - he's a Trump supporter who's been
:10:48. > :10:49.tipped as the president's choice for US ambassador
:10:50. > :10:51.to the EU, and he's just flown back from Washington.
:10:52. > :10:54.And by James Rubin - he's a democrat who served
:10:55. > :11:04.Let's start with that last point I made in the voice over there. We now
:11:05. > :11:11.have a Eurosceptic in the oval office. He is pro-Brexit and not
:11:12. > :11:15.keen on further European Union integration. What are the
:11:16. > :11:21.implications of that? First of all, a renewal of the US- UK special
:11:22. > :11:26.relationship. You see the Prime Minister already going to build and
:11:27. > :11:32.rebuild this relationship. Already, the bust of Winston Churchill is
:11:33. > :11:36.back in the oval office. Interestingly, Martin Luther King's
:11:37. > :11:42.bust is also there, so there is an act of unity in that first movement
:11:43. > :11:47.of dusts. Donald Trump will be oriented between bilateral
:11:48. > :11:59.relationships and not multilateral or supernatural. Supranational full.
:12:00. > :12:04.What are the implications of someone in the White House now not believing
:12:05. > :12:08.in it? I think we are present in the unravelling of America's leadership
:12:09. > :12:13.of the West. There is now a thing called the west that America has led
:12:14. > :12:25.since the end of World War II, creating supranational - we just
:12:26. > :12:29.heard supernatural! These institutions were created. With
:12:30. > :12:33.American leadership, the world was at peace in Europe, and the world
:12:34. > :12:38.grew increasingly democratic and prosperous. Wars were averted that
:12:39. > :12:42.could be extremely costly. When something works in diplomacy, you
:12:43. > :12:48.don't really understand what the consequences could have been. I
:12:49. > :12:52.think we've got complacent. The new president is taking advantage of
:12:53. > :12:58.that. It is a terrible tragedy that so many in the West take for granted
:12:59. > :13:02.the successful leadership and institutions we have built. You
:13:03. > :13:10.could argue, as James Rubin has argued in some articles, that...
:13:11. > :13:17.Will Mr Trump's America be more involved in the world than the Obama
:13:18. > :13:25.won? Or will it continue the process with running shoes on that began
:13:26. > :13:28.with Mr Obama? President Obama stepped back from American
:13:29. > :13:33.leadership. He withdrew from the world. He had a horrendous eight
:13:34. > :13:38.years in office, and American powers have diminished everywhere in the
:13:39. > :13:44.world, not just in Europe. That power will reassert. The focus will
:13:45. > :13:47.be on America first, but there are foreign interests around the
:13:48. > :13:53.world... How does it reassert itself around the world? I think the
:13:54. > :14:00.institutions will be recreated. Some may be taken down. There could be
:14:01. > :14:03.some new ones. I think Nato itself, and certainly the Defence Secretary
:14:04. > :14:08.will have discussions with Donald Trump about how Nato can be
:14:09. > :14:12.reshaped, and maybe there will be more burden sharing. That is an
:14:13. > :14:17.important thing for him. You are tipped to be the US ambassador to
:14:18. > :14:22.Brussels, to the EU, and we are still waiting to hear if that will
:14:23. > :14:28.happen. Is it true to say that Mr Trump does not believe in EU
:14:29. > :14:38.integration? I think you made that clear in the speech. He talked about
:14:39. > :14:44.supranational. He does not believe in those kinds of organisations. He
:14:45. > :14:49.is investing himself in bilateral relationships, the first of which
:14:50. > :14:54.will be with the UK. So we have a president who does not believe in EU
:14:55. > :15:00.integration and has been highly critical of Nato. Do the people he
:15:01. > :15:05.has appointed to defend, Secretary of State, national security, do you
:15:06. > :15:11.think that will temper this anti-NATO wretched? Will he come
:15:12. > :15:17.round to a more pro-NATO situation? I think those of us who care about
:15:18. > :15:23.America's situation in the world will come in to miss President Obama
:15:24. > :15:26.a lot. I think the Secretary of State and the faculty of defence
:15:27. > :15:31.will limit the damage and will urge him not to take formal steps to
:15:32. > :15:36.unravel this most powerful and most successful alliance in history, the
:15:37. > :15:43.Nato alliance. But the damage is already being done. When you are the
:15:44. > :15:47.leader of the West, leadership means you are persuading, encouraging,
:15:48. > :15:52.bolstering your leadership and these institutions by the way you speak.
:15:53. > :15:57.Millions, if not hundreds of millions of people, have now heard
:15:58. > :16:01.the US say that what they care about is within their borders.
:16:02. > :16:12.What do you say to that? It is such an overstatement. The point is that
:16:13. > :16:18.Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian tradition of national populism. He
:16:19. > :16:23.is appealing to the people first. The other day, I was sitting below
:16:24. > :16:26.this page during the address, and he said, everyone sitting behind me as
:16:27. > :16:30.part of the problem. Everyone in front of me, the crowd and the crowd
:16:31. > :16:34.on television, is part of the solution, so we are giving the
:16:35. > :16:38.Government back to the people. That emphasis is going to change American
:16:39. > :16:45.life, including American International relations. It doesn't
:16:46. > :16:50.moving the leak back -- it doesn't mean we are moving out of Nato, it
:16:51. > :16:55.simply means we will put our national interests first. There were
:16:56. > :17:01.echoes of Andrew Jackson's inauguration address of 1820. That
:17:02. > :17:05.night, the Jacksonians trashed the White House, but Mr Trump's people
:17:06. > :17:10.didn't do that, so there is a difference there. He also said
:17:11. > :17:14.something else in the address - that protectionism would lead to
:17:15. > :17:20.prosperity. I would suggest there is no evidence for that in the post-war
:17:21. > :17:26.world. He talked about protecting the American worker, American jobs,
:17:27. > :17:33.the American economy. I actually think that Donald Trump will not
:17:34. > :17:40.turn out to be a protectionist. If you read the heart of the deal...
:17:41. > :17:42.This is referring to two Republican senators who introduce massive
:17:43. > :17:52.tariffs in the Hoover administration. Exactly. If you read
:17:53. > :17:56.The Art Of The Deal, you will see how Donald Trump deals with
:17:57. > :18:02.individuals and countries. There is a lot of bluster, positioning, and I
:18:03. > :18:06.think you already see this in bringing jobs by the United States.
:18:07. > :18:10.Things are going to change. Let's also deal with this proposition.
:18:11. > :18:17.China is the biggest loser of this election result. Let me say this:
:18:18. > :18:25.The first time in American history and American president has set forth
:18:26. > :18:32.his view of the world, and it is a mercantile view of the world, who
:18:33. > :18:36.makes more money, who gets more trade, it doesn't look at the shared
:18:37. > :18:40.values, leadership and defends the world needs. The art of the deal has
:18:41. > :18:43.no application to America's leadership of the world, that's what
:18:44. > :18:49.we're learning. You can be a great businessman and make great real
:18:50. > :18:52.estate deals - whether he did not is debatable - but it has nothing to do
:18:53. > :18:58.with inspiring shared values from the West. You saying China may lose,
:18:59. > :19:03.because he may pressure them to reduce their trade deficit with the
:19:04. > :19:08.US. They may or may not. We may both lose. Right now, his Secretary of
:19:09. > :19:13.State has said, and I think he will walk this back when he is brief,
:19:14. > :19:17.that they will prevent the Chinese from entering these islands in the
:19:18. > :19:21.South China Sea. If they were to do that, it would be a blockade, and
:19:22. > :19:26.there would be a shooting war between the United States and China,
:19:27. > :19:29.so US - China relations are the most important bilateral relationship of
:19:30. > :19:33.the United States, and they don't lend themselves to the bluff and
:19:34. > :19:39.bluster that may have worked when you are trying to get a big building
:19:40. > :19:46.on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China the biggest loser? I think the
:19:47. > :19:57.Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi
:19:58. > :20:08.Jin Ping was in Davos. Is Germany the second biggest loser
:20:09. > :20:12.in the sense that I understand he hasn't agreed time to see Angela
:20:13. > :20:18.Merkel yet, also that those close to him believe that Germany is guilty
:20:19. > :20:22.of currency manipulation by adopting a weak your row instead of the
:20:23. > :20:26.strong Deutschmark, and that that is why they are running a huge balance
:20:27. > :20:32.of payments surplus with the United States. American - German relations
:20:33. > :20:37.may not be great. There is a point of view throughout Europe. You only
:20:38. > :20:42.have to talk to the southern Europeans about this question. It
:20:43. > :20:46.seems like the euro has been aligned to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz,
:20:47. > :20:53.the famous left of centre Democrat economist, made the same case in a
:20:54. > :20:57.recent book. In this case, I think Germany will be put under the
:20:58. > :21:01.spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown herself to be the most respected and
:21:02. > :21:07.the most successful leader in Europe. We who care about the West,
:21:08. > :21:11.who care about the shared values of the West, should pray and hope that
:21:12. > :21:16.she is re-elected. This isn't about dollars and cents. We're living in a
:21:17. > :21:21.time whether Russian leader has another country in Europe and for
:21:22. > :21:27.some inexplicable reason, the American president, who can use his
:21:28. > :21:33.insult diplomacy on everyone, including Mrs Merkel, the only
:21:34. > :21:37.person he can't seem to find anything to criticise about is Mr
:21:38. > :21:40.Putin. There are things more important than the actual details of
:21:41. > :21:44.your currency. There are things like preventing another war in Europe,
:21:45. > :21:51.preventing a war between the Chinese and the US. You talk about the
:21:52. > :21:55.Trident missile all morning, nuclear deterrence is extremely important.
:21:56. > :21:59.It doesn't lend itself to the bluff and bluster of a real estate deal. I
:22:00. > :22:02.understand all that, but the fact we are even talking about these things
:22:03. > :22:08.shows the new world we are moving into. I'd like to get you both to
:22:09. > :22:16.react to this. This is a man that ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that
:22:17. > :22:19.beat the Clinton machine. In his inauguration, not only did he not
:22:20. > :22:24.reach out to the Democrats, he didn't even mention the Republicans.
:22:25. > :22:28.These are changed days for us. They are, and change can be good or
:22:29. > :22:33.disastrous. I'm worried that it's easy in the world of diplomacy and
:22:34. > :22:38.in them -- for the leadership of the United States to break relationships
:22:39. > :22:47.and ruin alliances. These are things that were carefully nurtured. George
:22:48. > :22:51.Schultz, the American Secretary of State under Reagan talked about
:22:52. > :22:56.gardening, the slow, careful creation of a place with bilateral
:22:57. > :22:58.relationships that were blossoming and flowering multilateral
:22:59. > :23:01.relationships that take decades to create, and he will throw them away
:23:02. > :23:08.in a matter of days. The final word... I work for George Schultz.
:23:09. > :23:12.He was a Marine who stood up America, defended America, who would
:23:13. > :23:17.be in favour of many of the things that Donald Trump and the tramp
:23:18. > :23:22.Administration... Give him a call. His top aide macs that I've spoken
:23:23. > :23:27.to are appalled by Mr Trump's abdication of leadership. He is
:23:28. > :23:35.going to our radically -- he's going to eradicate extremist Islam from
:23:36. > :23:38.the face of the year. Is that realistic? I know people in the
:23:39. > :23:42.national security realm have worked on a plan. They say they will have
:23:43. > :23:51.such a plan in some detail within 90 days. Lets hope they succeed. We
:23:52. > :23:52.have run out of time. As a issues. Thank you, both. -- fascinating
:23:53. > :23:56.issues. So Theresa May promised a big speech
:23:57. > :23:59.on Brexit, and this week - perhaps against expectation -
:24:00. > :24:01.she delivered, trying to answer claims that the government didn't
:24:02. > :24:04.have a plan with an explicit wish-list of what she hopes to
:24:05. > :24:07.achieve in negotiations with the EU. To her allies it was ambitious,
:24:08. > :24:09.bold, optimistic - to her opponents it was full
:24:10. > :24:11.of contradictions Here's Adam again, with a reminder
:24:12. > :24:14.of the speech and how There are speeches,
:24:15. > :24:19.and there are speeches. Like Theresa May's 12 principles
:24:20. > :24:23.for a Brexit deal leading to the UK fully out of the EU
:24:24. > :24:26.but still friendly in terms This agreement should allow
:24:27. > :24:30.for the freest possible trade in goods and services between
:24:31. > :24:32.Britain and the EU's member states. It should give British
:24:33. > :24:38.companies the maximum operate within European markets
:24:39. > :24:41.and let European businesses do She also said no deal would be
:24:42. > :24:49.better than the wrong deal, We want to test what people think
:24:50. > :25:05.about what she's just said. Do we have any of our
:25:06. > :25:07.future negotiating As the European Parliament
:25:08. > :25:12.voted for its new president, its chief
:25:13. > :25:20.negotiator sounded off. Saying, OK, if our European
:25:21. > :25:22.counterparts don't accept it, we're going to make
:25:23. > :25:25.from Britain a sort of free zone or tax haven,
:25:26. > :25:27.I The Prime Minister of Malta,
:25:28. > :25:34.the country that's assumed the EU's rotating presidency,
:25:35. > :25:37.spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger. We want a fair deal
:25:38. > :25:41.for the United Kingdom, but that deal necessarily needs to be
:25:42. > :25:51.inferior to membership. Next, let's hear
:25:52. > :25:53.from some enthusiastic leavers, like, I don't
:25:54. > :25:59.know, the Daily Mail? The paper lapped it up
:26:00. > :26:02.with this adoring front page. For Brexiteers, it was
:26:03. > :26:06.all manna from heaven. I think today means we are a big
:26:07. > :26:08.step closer to becoming an independent country again,
:26:09. > :26:11.with control of our own laws, I was chuckling at some of it,
:26:12. > :26:17.to be honest, because There were various phrases there
:26:18. > :26:21.which I've used myself again and Do we have any of those
:26:22. > :26:26.so-called Remoaners? There will, at the end
:26:27. > :26:28.of this deal process, so politicians get to vote
:26:29. > :26:32.on the stitch-up, but We take the view as
:26:33. > :26:35.Liberal Democrats that if this process started
:26:36. > :26:37.with democracy last June, We trusted the people
:26:38. > :26:41.with departure, we must trust them Do we have anyone from
:26:42. > :26:47.Labour, or are you all watching it in a small
:26:48. > :26:49.room somewhere? Throughout the speech, there seemed
:26:50. > :26:57.to be an implied threat that somewhere along the line,
:26:58. > :27:00.if all her optimism of a deal with the European Union didn't work,
:27:01. > :27:02.we would move into a low-tax, corporate taxation,
:27:03. > :27:04.bargain-basement economy on the I think she needs to be
:27:05. > :27:08.a bit clearer about what The Labour leader
:27:09. > :27:15.suggested he'd tell his MPs to vote in favour
:27:16. > :27:18.of starting a Brexit process if Parliament was given the choice,
:27:19. > :27:20.sparking a mini pre-revolt among Finally, do we have anyone
:27:21. > :27:26.from big business here? Of course, your all in Davos
:27:27. > :27:35.at the World Economic Clarity, first of all, really
:27:36. > :27:45.codified what many of us have been anticipating since
:27:46. > :27:47.the referendum result, particularly around
:27:48. > :27:48.the I think what we've also seen
:27:49. > :27:52.today is the Government's willingness to put a bit of edge
:27:53. > :27:55.into the negotiating dynamic, and I Trade negotiations are negotiations,
:27:56. > :28:00.and you have to lay out, and you have to be pretty tough
:28:01. > :28:02.to get what you want. Although some business people
:28:03. > :28:04.on the slopes speculated about moving some of their
:28:05. > :28:07.operations out of Brexit Britain. We saw there the instant reaction
:28:08. > :28:25.of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, but how will the party respond
:28:26. > :28:28.to the challenge posed by Brexit Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow
:28:29. > :28:37.Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. People know that Ukip and the Tories
:28:38. > :28:42.are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are four remain. What is Labour for? For
:28:43. > :28:48.respecting the result of the referendum. It was a 72% turnout,
:28:49. > :28:51.very high for an election of that nature, and we believe you have to
:28:52. > :28:55.respect that result. You couldn't have a situation where people like
:28:56. > :28:59.Tim Farron are saying to people, millions of people, sorry, you got
:29:00. > :29:04.it wrong, we in London no better. However, how the Tories go forward
:29:05. > :29:10.from here has to be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow
:29:11. > :29:15.Cabinet policy to vote for the triggering of Article 50? Our policy
:29:16. > :29:22.is not to block Article 50. That is what the leader was saying this
:29:23. > :29:27.morning. So are you for it? Our policy is not to block it. You are
:29:28. > :29:33.talking about voting for it. We don't know what the Supreme Court is
:29:34. > :29:35.going to say, and we don't know what legislation Government will bring
:29:36. > :29:41.forward, and we don't know what amendment we will move, but we're
:29:42. > :29:45.clear that we will not vote to block it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it,
:29:46. > :29:53.but you could abstain? No, what we will do... Either you vote for or
:29:54. > :29:57.against all you abstain. There are too many unanswered questions. For
:29:58. > :30:02.instance, the position of EU migrants working and living in this
:30:03. > :30:06.country. You may not get the answer to that before Article 50 comes
:30:07. > :30:11.before the Commons, so what would you do then? We are giving to amend
:30:12. > :30:15.it. We can only tell you exactly how we will amend it when we understand
:30:16. > :30:19.what sort of legislation the Government is putting forward, and
:30:20. > :30:23.in the course of moving those amendments, we will ask the
:30:24. > :30:24.questions that the people of Britain whether they voted to leave remain
:30:25. > :30:35.want answered. When you come to a collective view,
:30:36. > :30:39.will there be a three line whip? I can't tell you, because we have not
:30:40. > :30:47.seen the government 's legislation. But when you see it, you will come
:30:48. > :30:51.to a collective view. Many regard this as extremely important. Will
:30:52. > :30:56.there be a three line whip on Labour's collective view? Because it
:30:57. > :31:01.is important, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. When we see what the
:31:02. > :31:06.Supreme Court says, and crucially, when we see what the government
:31:07. > :31:12.position is, you will hear what the whipping is. Will shadow ministers
:31:13. > :31:18.be able to defy any three line whip on this? That is not normally the
:31:19. > :31:23.case. But they did on an early vote that the government introduced on
:31:24. > :31:28.Article 50. Those who voted against it are still there. In the Blair
:31:29. > :31:33.years, you certainly couldn't defy a three line whip. We will see what
:31:34. > :31:39.happens going forward. I remember when the Tories were hopelessly
:31:40. > :31:44.divided over the EU. All these Maastricht votes and an list
:31:45. > :31:56.arguments. Now it is Labour. Just another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor
:31:57. > :32:01.leadership. Not at all. Two thirds voted to leave, a third to remain.
:32:02. > :32:06.We are seeking to bring the country and the party together. We will do
:32:07. > :32:17.that by pointing out how disastrous a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile,
:32:18. > :32:22.around 80 Labour MPs will defy a three line whip. It's too early to
:32:23. > :32:27.say that. Will you publish what you believe the negotiating goal should
:32:28. > :32:32.be? We are clear on it. We think that the economy, jobs and living
:32:33. > :32:37.standards should be the priority. What Theresa May is saying is that
:32:38. > :32:43.holding her party together is her priority. She is putting party above
:32:44. > :32:49.country. Does Labour think we should remain members of the single market?
:32:50. > :32:55.Ideally, in terms of jobs and the economy, of course. Ritt -ish
:32:56. > :32:58.business thinks that as well. Is Labour policy that we should remain
:32:59. > :33:03.a member of the single market? Labour leaves that jobs and the
:33:04. > :33:09.economy comes first, and if they come first, you would want to remain
:33:10. > :33:15.part of the single market. But to remain a member? Jobs and the
:33:16. > :33:21.economy comes first, and to do that, ideally, guess. So with that, comes
:33:22. > :33:25.free movement of people, the jurisdiction of the European, and a
:33:26. > :33:34.multi-million never shipped thief. Is Labour prepared to pay that?
:33:35. > :33:42.Money is neither here nor there. Because the Tories will be asked to
:33:43. > :33:48.pay a lot of money... The EU has made it clear that you cannot
:33:49. > :33:54.have... I am asking for Labour's position. Our position is rooted in
:33:55. > :33:58.the reality, and the reality is that you cannot have the benefits of the
:33:59. > :34:02.member of the European Union, including being a member of the
:34:03. > :34:07.single market, without responsibility, including free
:34:08. > :34:12.movement of people. Free movement, is remaining under the jurisdiction
:34:13. > :34:19.of the European Court of Justice. Is that the Labour position? You've
:34:20. > :34:24.said that Labour wants to remain a member of the single market. That is
:34:25. > :34:30.the price tag that comes with it. Does Labour agree with paying that
:34:31. > :34:35.price tag? We are not pre-empting negotiation. Our goals are protect
:34:36. > :34:40.jobs and the British economy. Is it Labour's position that we remain a
:34:41. > :34:54.member of the customs union? Well, if we don't, I don't see how Theresa
:34:55. > :34:59.May can keep our promises and has unfettered access... You said
:35:00. > :35:07.Labour's position was clear. It is! It is clear that Theresa May... I am
:35:08. > :35:14.not asking about Theresa May. Is it Labour's position to remain a member
:35:15. > :35:19.of the customs union? It is Labour's position to do what is right for
:35:20. > :35:24.British industry. Depending on how the negotiations go, it may prove
:35:25. > :35:28.that coming out of the customs union, as Theresa May has indicated
:35:29. > :35:35.she wants to do, could prove catastrophic, and could actually
:35:36. > :35:39.destroy some of her promises. You do accept that if we are member of the
:35:40. > :35:48.customs union, we cannot do our own free trade deals? What free trade
:35:49. > :35:54.deals are you talking about? The ones that Labour might want to do in
:35:55. > :35:58.the future. First, we have to protect British jobs and British
:35:59. > :36:02.industries. If you are talking about free trade deals with Donald Trump,
:36:03. > :36:07.the danger is that Theresa May will get drawn into a free-trade deal
:36:08. > :36:14.with America that will open up the NHS to American corporate... The
:36:15. > :36:19.cards are in Theresa May's hands. If she takes us out of the single
:36:20. > :36:23.market, if she takes us out of the customs union, we will have to deal
:36:24. > :36:29.with that. How big a crisis for Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour
:36:30. > :36:36.loses both by-elections in February. I don't believe we will lose both.
:36:37. > :36:44.But if he did? I am not anticipating that. Is Labour lost two seats in a
:36:45. > :36:47.midterm of a Tory government, would that be business as usual? I'm not
:36:48. > :36:49.prepared to see us lose those seats, so I will not talk about something
:36:50. > :36:53.that will not happen. Thank you. You're watching
:36:54. > :36:54.the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:36:55. > :36:57.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20
:36:58. > :37:00.minutes, The Week Ahead, when we'll be talking
:37:01. > :37:02.to Business Minister Margot James about the government's
:37:03. > :37:05.new industrial strategy and that crucial Supreme Court
:37:06. > :37:08.ruling on Brexit. First, though, the Sunday
:37:09. > :37:18.Politics where you are. Hello and a warm welcome
:37:19. > :37:22.to your local part of the show. This weekend, will nightschools soon
:37:23. > :37:26.be a thing of the past? Some MPs claim adult education
:37:27. > :37:28.classes could disappear altogether unless government cuts
:37:29. > :37:31.are rapidly reversed. We'll also have the latest news
:37:32. > :37:34.on the candidates fighting next month's crucial
:37:35. > :37:37.by-election in Copeland. But first, can the north-east
:37:38. > :37:40.and Cumbria flourish outside the EU Labour's Stephen Hughes has spent
:37:41. > :37:50.30 years representing Northeastern European Parliament
:37:51. > :37:52.and the Conservative MP You were a conservative who backed
:37:53. > :37:58.Remain in the referendum and the PM seems to be taking us to one
:37:59. > :38:01.of the hardest Brexits she could. I think the PM's
:38:02. > :38:04.speech was very good. A logical approach to negotiations,
:38:05. > :38:08.we are only about to start negotiations with Europe so she set
:38:09. > :38:12.out our position, a starting point, over the course of the next year
:38:13. > :38:16.we'll start to find out You must remember, before successful
:38:17. > :38:22.negotiations you have She set up a logical decision
:38:23. > :38:27.and I think we can prosper outside the European Common market
:38:28. > :38:31.because we'll be able to do deals with other countries,
:38:32. > :38:34.while at the same time I'm sure at the end of the day,
:38:35. > :38:41.we will strike a bespoke EU deal. You spent 30 years working
:38:42. > :38:46.in the European Parliament, to bring Britain and Europe closer
:38:47. > :38:49.together, what do you I think one of the French
:38:50. > :38:56.liberal MPs said well, you don't start a negotiation
:38:57. > :38:58.with a threat. I think it was a mistake to use that
:38:59. > :39:02.threat, the EU would be self mutilating if it took
:39:03. > :39:05.a tougher approach. I don't think people like
:39:06. > :39:08.the negotiator in the Parliament or Jean-Claude Juncker are trying
:39:09. > :39:12.to play hardball. They are saying it's going to be
:39:13. > :39:14.difficult because it is. But I think she's set out
:39:15. > :39:19.a number of ideas that The objectives give us
:39:20. > :39:22.an idea of the direction she would like to travel,
:39:23. > :39:25.we have got to see John is right, takes two
:39:26. > :39:30.to tango and we need to see Ukip were delighted by the tone
:39:31. > :39:35.of Theresa May's speech. But the party remains concerned not
:39:36. > :39:37.every Conservative MP It was a very good speech, in fact
:39:38. > :39:44.it could have been a Ukip speech. The only thing is she didn't mention
:39:45. > :39:48.was regaining our fishing ground, that was a bit of a disappointment
:39:49. > :39:51.but she was very clear we'll be leaving the single
:39:52. > :39:54.market and I welcome that. I'm still a bit worried
:39:55. > :39:56.about the pace of the And I still worry that ultimately
:39:57. > :40:00.Theresa May was a Remainer and she still has some of those MPs
:40:01. > :40:05.in her Cabinet, that worries me. I hope they're fully on board
:40:06. > :40:08.but we'll have to wait and see and that is the reason Ukip
:40:09. > :40:10.needs to continue. John, not sure if you're flattered,
:40:11. > :40:17.but that's the danger, you are aping their views by putting
:40:18. > :40:21.immigration as the top priority, controlling it, ahead
:40:22. > :40:27.of the welfare of the economy. No, I think any government
:40:28. > :40:30.has to do this, looks at the laws about immigration,
:40:31. > :40:35.future deals with other countries, government will do a number
:40:36. > :40:37.of things at the same time but the consequence of taking back
:40:38. > :40:40.control of boundaries means we are not part of the common
:40:41. > :40:46.market, of the European market. But a lot of businesses wanted
:40:47. > :40:49.to make sure they were in there We have the ability
:40:50. > :40:56.to come to an agreement with the European Union about access
:40:57. > :40:59.to their markets in exactly the same way they will have to come
:41:00. > :41:02.to an arrangement with us I think at the end of the day you
:41:03. > :41:11.end up with a bespoke EU UK deal. Are all constituents
:41:12. > :41:12.as relaxed as you? They recognise it's not going to be
:41:13. > :41:15.straightforward but I also think they accept the decision
:41:16. > :41:17.of the British people and what we now need to do is make
:41:18. > :41:21.sure we get the best possible deal, not just for the UK
:41:22. > :41:23.but also in Europe. When we negotiate looking
:41:24. > :41:26.towards mutual benefit I think If the Prime Minister is to address
:41:27. > :41:31.the concerns of voters about immigration she clearly has no
:41:32. > :41:34.choice but to leave If she wants to control immigration
:41:35. > :41:44.she has to leave the single market. Free movement is a fundamental
:41:45. > :41:46.part of access. We'll have a real problem
:41:47. > :41:52.in attracting the sort 69% of firms are worried they can't
:41:53. > :41:57.get recruits with skills they need, If we put these restrictions
:41:58. > :42:05.in the way for people looking for jobs we have real bottlenecks
:42:06. > :42:08.in the labour market, The predictions of economic doom
:42:09. > :42:12.and gloom haven't come to pass, we had them
:42:13. > :42:14.during the referendum, Does her speech change
:42:15. > :42:19.the direction of that? We will end up with a bespoke deal,
:42:20. > :42:25.but for the Parliament, the Maltese Foreign Minister,
:42:26. > :42:28.on our side, says a country leaving the European Union can't be
:42:29. > :42:31.seen to be better off It's at that point, that will become
:42:32. > :42:41.extremely difficult, John, the Prime Minister
:42:42. > :42:44.promised certainty, one But actually, this doesn't offer
:42:45. > :42:56.that, we don't know what the deal will be at the end of the day,
:42:57. > :43:00.we don't know if we get tariff free access companies like Pirelli
:43:01. > :43:02.and companies like Nissan, the Chief Executive
:43:03. > :43:03.talking about looking A deal already been done
:43:04. > :43:06.might unravel if you At this stage we don't know
:43:07. > :43:12.what the final deal will become What we have to do is make sure
:43:13. > :43:21.we get the best possible deal for Britain and Europe,
:43:22. > :43:23.at the same time,... You've got to reach an agreement
:43:24. > :43:25.with 27 different countries. Someone like Nissan,
:43:26. > :43:27.the Prime Minister spent time with them already saying,
:43:28. > :43:30.we are going to have to look at this, the decisions we might have
:43:31. > :43:33.made might have to be reversed. There is an acceptance any
:43:34. > :43:35.negotiation will be tough but nevertheless at the end
:43:36. > :43:38.of the day there will be an agreement between the EU and UK
:43:39. > :43:41.that also gives us the opportunity to start negotiating with other
:43:42. > :43:43.countries on our own terms, not with the EU as part
:43:44. > :43:46.of the group. For example, we'll be able to do
:43:47. > :43:49.deals with Australia, New Zealand, America,
:43:50. > :43:51.Canada, there are opportunities for us and at the same time reaching
:43:52. > :43:58.agreement with the EU. We promised that we get
:43:59. > :44:09.the voice of the North heard Cumbria won't have a seat
:44:10. > :44:13.at the discussions about We have representatives like myself
:44:14. > :44:17.who will feed in views to the government ministers and that
:44:18. > :44:19.happens throughout the country. The Tees Valley mayor will get a say
:44:20. > :44:25.in negotiations apparently because there is a Mayor
:44:26. > :44:27.but you can't involve the rest of the region,
:44:28. > :44:29.doesn't have a figurehead. It's a shame the rest
:44:30. > :44:32.of the region not decided not We get to see who will be elected
:44:33. > :44:36.in the Tees corridor, Do you think the north interests
:44:37. > :44:42.will be represented? The MEPs, the MPs will do
:44:43. > :44:45.an excellent job in presenting But those areas with a mayor,
:44:46. > :44:52.speaking on behalf of the local authority in their area will add
:44:53. > :44:55.a little bit of oomph to it. More than 60 MPs have signed
:44:56. > :45:01.a Commons motion condemning They warn traditional evening
:45:02. > :45:05.classes in subjects like pottery and foreign languages may disappear
:45:06. > :45:07.altogether because of The government says its putting
:45:08. > :45:10.the emphasis where it's needed most They are back to class even though
:45:11. > :45:20.they left school years ago. Adult education has seen funding
:45:21. > :45:24.and participation fall but these two Now she's learning to weld, to help
:45:25. > :45:35.her become a sculptor of metalwork. Alan was made redundant
:45:36. > :45:47.from life as a steelworker. He hopes this access course will
:45:48. > :45:52.lead to university and the chance to study social work. Both say the
:45:53. > :45:56.experience as life changing. It opens up a new world, a new world of
:45:57. > :46:02.opportunity and if you are made redundant, it's not the end of the
:46:03. > :46:07.world. The standards are very high. So that sense of satisfaction of
:46:08. > :46:11.achieving, getting your past and your exam pieces and practical
:46:12. > :46:15.pieces is fantastic. Here at Hartlepool College all ages take
:46:16. > :46:19.part in academic and technical learning but government austerity
:46:20. > :46:24.has had an impact. The man in charge says funding is down with adult
:46:25. > :46:30.enrolment tumbling 40%. Fewer students, fewer courses. About ten
:46:31. > :46:36.years ago we were quite by bin, four nights a week, we've cut that down
:46:37. > :46:39.to three, we want to make sure we have access to the adults of
:46:40. > :46:43.Hartlepool but it's getting more difficult to do that the funding.
:46:44. > :46:47.Unlike this needlework, the debate around adult learning has many
:46:48. > :46:51.threads. Regulars at this Gateshead craft class say it's benefits or
:46:52. > :46:55.social as well as educational. It's great. When you are retired you need
:46:56. > :47:01.to keep your brain working and the creative side going, mixing with
:47:02. > :47:06.people, it covers all of those. It's the social side, meeting people,
:47:07. > :47:11.learning to crochet, learning to knit. Sessions like these are under
:47:12. > :47:15.pressure. We have to turn down requests for classes like this all
:47:16. > :47:18.the time. We have to be very selective because we got limited
:47:19. > :47:22.funding and I think it would be brilliant if there was more funding
:47:23. > :47:27.available so more people could participate and get back to society.
:47:28. > :47:32.In a letter to ministers 60 MPs have called for a new adult education
:47:33. > :47:36.strategy. They warn cuts to provision risk worsening a shortage
:47:37. > :47:40.of skills. That is damaging the economy. And they say possibility of
:47:41. > :47:45.makes the situation more pressing. makes the situation more pressing.
:47:46. > :47:49.People need to be able to get the skills to get good, high skilled,
:47:50. > :47:55.high wage jobs which employers need to be able to recruit those people.
:47:56. > :47:58.Adult lifelong education is key if we are going to have a competitive
:47:59. > :48:03.economy post Brexit. Supporters of the government accept money has been
:48:04. > :48:08.tied up point to extra investment on the horizon. We've also got more
:48:09. > :48:13.general adult learner loans, the budget for which is increasing from
:48:14. > :48:16.200 million to 480 million, we've got the apprenticeships levy
:48:17. > :48:20.delivering around 3 billion a year at the end of the Parliament from
:48:21. > :48:24.large employers to help pay for the apprenticeship system. There is a
:48:25. > :48:28.better financial envelope which should support adult education.
:48:29. > :48:31.Never too late to learn but in a fast changing world, the challenges
:48:32. > :48:38.to equip generations to change with it.
:48:39. > :48:41.Two different kinds of adult education, let's deal with both, one
:48:42. > :48:45.in particular, Stephen Hughes, people in Gateshead in the crochet
:48:46. > :48:48.class felt they were getting a lot out of it. Surely it's better when
:48:49. > :48:54.money is tight for them to fond of themselves or look for outside
:48:55. > :48:59.sponsorship? I think the general government of individuals is
:49:00. > :49:03.important. I think skills related to training is important because the
:49:04. > :49:07.points made in that piece are right. Classes which you could look out for
:49:08. > :49:13.leisure and pleasure? No. Any school that people pick up in life and
:49:14. > :49:16.develop them as individuals and improve participation in society,
:49:17. > :49:20.it's a shame if any class of any sort is cut. Education
:49:21. > :49:25.across-the-board is worth investing in, the worry is it's not being
:49:26. > :49:29.invested in. 40% reduction in adult education since 2010, three
:49:30. > :49:36.worrying. The colleges think it could be gone altogether by 2020.
:49:37. > :49:40.Let's deal with classes, some would say is leisure, it's a sad thing if
:49:41. > :49:44.we don't place leisure on the course in Gateshead. If mental health
:49:45. > :49:49.benefits from it, they and society benefit and it might keep them out
:49:50. > :49:52.of the NHS? Education and training will always change, the amount of
:49:53. > :49:57.money the government has to spend depends on economic circumstances.
:49:58. > :50:01.This government has concentrated on apprenticeships, that was one of the
:50:02. > :50:10.great successes, now an ambition to have 3 million apprenticeships. All
:50:11. > :50:11.that kind of stuff goes... For instance, it's important we train up
:50:12. > :50:17.the next generation. If you give me the next generation. If you give me
:50:18. > :50:21.a chance to complete... It means every part of the workforce. What
:50:22. > :50:25.I'm saying is the apprenticeships has been a success, continues to be
:50:26. > :50:28.in this and we are funding that. Looking ahead, we've got the
:50:29. > :50:30.apprenticeship levy coming in, that will raise nearly 3 billion by the
:50:31. > :50:33.end of this Parliament. There will end of this Parliament. There will
:50:34. > :50:38.be an opportunity for funding not just apprenticeships for youngsters
:50:39. > :50:41.but adult apprenticeships. I think that's a sensible investment into
:50:42. > :50:46.the economy, the workforce of the future and now we have to continue
:50:47. > :50:50.to train, clearly skills will be vital for the future success of the
:50:51. > :50:53.economy. Rather than rely on the taxpayer isn't it appropriate to get
:50:54. > :50:57.us in this through the apprenticeship levy to fund
:50:58. > :51:01.retraining of able or people to take loans so they have investment in
:51:02. > :51:04.their own future? I think businesses should be investing more, we've a
:51:05. > :51:05.real problem in this country that businesses don't invest in training
:51:06. > :51:10.their own people, they'd rather puts their own people, they'd rather puts
:51:11. > :51:15.them from other organisations but nevertheless, we need to go back to
:51:16. > :51:18.time we subsidised adult education. When my dad left the mind he went to
:51:19. > :51:22.an adult training centre which trained him to become an
:51:23. > :51:24.electrician, he got an electronic qualification and got a totally
:51:25. > :51:29.different career. There not the money. Of course there is, it's a
:51:30. > :51:37.question of priorities. In Darlington, 25% of people don't have
:51:38. > :51:39.formal qualifications. They are the long-term unemployed of the future
:51:40. > :51:44.unless we begin to reinvest in adult education. Post Brexit we are going
:51:45. > :51:48.firing on all cylinders if we are firing on all cylinders if we are
:51:49. > :51:52.going to reduce the allowance on migrant workers and the signs are
:51:53. > :51:56.not that good on this, if this continues, further education
:51:57. > :52:00.colleges can provide retraining. I disagree, in the last parliament we
:52:01. > :52:03.had 2 million new apprentices, this Parliament we should have 3 million,
:52:04. > :52:08.we have the levy coming in, there will be funding. Employers are
:52:09. > :52:12.crying over people with skills, they are not getting them. That's an
:52:13. > :52:16.indication we have to up skill the workforce as best we can but what I
:52:17. > :52:19.say, the government recognises we need to up the number of
:52:20. > :52:23.apprenticeships, hence the increase that they want this Parliament and
:52:24. > :52:29.that is a way to try and improve the skills that we need for a successful
:52:30. > :52:30.economy. Labour and Ukip have selected the candidates for
:52:31. > :52:33.couple and by-election, it will be couple and by-election, it will be
:52:34. > :52:36.moved tomorrow in Parliament and the date of the contest that Labour
:52:37. > :52:42.defends his slim majority is the 23rd of February. It will be a short
:52:43. > :52:50.and intense campaign. He was 60 seconds.
:52:51. > :52:55.Labour and Ukip have chosen their candidates for the couple and
:52:56. > :52:59.by-election. Gillian Trout and a Labour councillor, the owner Mills
:53:00. > :53:03.is the Cumbria chairman of Ukip. Rebecca Hanson the Lib Dem
:53:04. > :53:08.candidate, the Conservatives and Greens will announce soon. Money
:53:09. > :53:11.from the EU solidarity fund will come to the region, it's been
:53:12. > :53:15.announced. Government is using most of it to repay the EU for funding it
:53:16. > :53:19.says was misspent by the last Labour government. Councils in the
:53:20. > :53:23.Northeast need more cash for social care according to Labour. The
:53:24. > :53:27.government insists it is taking action but Bishop Auckland MP Helen
:53:28. > :53:32.Goodman told the Commons extra money councils can raise to council tax
:53:33. > :53:38.isn't enough. Has already had to make ?55 million of cuts. The
:53:39. > :53:39.precept will bring in 4 million, there is another 40 million of cuts
:53:40. > :53:46.in the pipeline. And finally plans in the pipeline. And finally plans
:53:47. > :53:49.by Northumberland Council to install 16,000 solar panels in woodland near
:53:50. > :53:53.Ashington have been shelved cos of subsidy worries.
:53:54. > :53:59.We talked candidates fighting the by-election in a special edition
:54:00. > :54:02.from West Cumbria next month. One of the issues in the by-election will
:54:03. > :54:06.be jobs and the government believes it has a good story to tell.
:54:07. > :54:11.Unemployment in the north-east and Cumbria cut by almost a half in the
:54:12. > :54:16.last four years. Weber says many of the jobs are part-time or zero hours
:54:17. > :54:19.contracts. Bob Cooper reports. The north-east stubbornly remains the
:54:20. > :54:24.rate in the country but it's been rate in the country but it's been
:54:25. > :54:36.falling in recent years. Today it stands at 620%, just over half of
:54:37. > :54:42.what it was in 2011. -- 6.8. Good morning. How can I help. But --
:54:43. > :54:46.Janus was out of work after a spell caring for her mother but works in a
:54:47. > :54:52.travel centre. I feel valued. Never been out of work. Being out of work,
:54:53. > :54:57.you lose a little bit of confidence. And feel that you are not
:54:58. > :55:01.appreciated. As much. But now I'm in employment, I feel a different
:55:02. > :55:03.person. The firm says it is employing more people now than at
:55:04. > :55:07.any point in its history. When I any point in its history. When I
:55:08. > :55:16.joined we had around 80 employees and we now have 140. We had 12 of
:55:17. > :55:21.getting bigger and bigger. Back in getting bigger and bigger. Back in
:55:22. > :55:24.the north-east the governments been keen to trumpet its record.
:55:25. > :55:27.Unemployment in the north-east has come down quite a lot over the years
:55:28. > :55:30.and that's a welcome thing, the and that's a welcome thing, the
:55:31. > :55:34.investment that come into the region is something we all welcome. The
:55:35. > :55:40.As is renewable energy and other As is renewable energy and other
:55:41. > :55:44.sectors. Very encouraged by all of those things. Critics aren't
:55:45. > :55:48.impressed, saying underemployment is still a big problem. We are a
:55:49. > :55:53.blackspot for example in terms of zero or contracts, in terms of
:55:54. > :55:58.underemployment, people want to work more hours but can't. If you scratch
:55:59. > :56:04.the surface you see we have lots and lots of people working now in
:56:05. > :56:08.poverty. The labour market now is certainly different from what it
:56:09. > :56:14.was. Whether that's for good or ill, remains for debate.
:56:15. > :56:19.Stephen Hughes, labour constantly making claims the jobs of zero or as
:56:20. > :56:21.contracts, Andre plummet, part-time, few concrete stats to back it up,
:56:22. > :56:25.since 2012, unemployment started since 2012, unemployment started
:56:26. > :56:31.dropping, the number of part-time against full-time jobs has stayed
:56:32. > :56:34.the same. Zero hours contracts, that's increased radically over the
:56:35. > :56:39.region in that time period. Ian is right. We have a lot of low quality,
:56:40. > :56:46.zero our contracts, and increase... How many? The last count, you can
:56:47. > :56:50.find on Google, late 2015, 30,000 in the region, it's more than that. The
:56:51. > :56:57.Office of National Statistics reckons over the same period the
:56:58. > :57:01.zero hours contracts tripled, but there is a lot of underemployment.
:57:02. > :57:06.Talk to the people that you know, you mix with, that is certainly the
:57:07. > :57:12.case in Darlington, in the south of County Durham. Let's put this to
:57:13. > :57:16.John Stephenson. Those figures are stark about zero our contracts
:57:17. > :57:22.trebling... Not the sign of a great job market? Employment is higher now
:57:23. > :57:29.than it's ever been, employment since 2007, the lost. Here the
:57:30. > :57:31.economy is working. Cumbria is a good example in many respects,
:57:32. > :57:36.virtually full implement in Carlisle. You also talk to people
:57:37. > :57:38.who don't feel satisfied with the amount of money they're getting,
:57:39. > :57:44.don't feel satisfied about the kind of job... There are jobs available,
:57:45. > :57:49.if you come to my skills there, the employers are calling out for people
:57:50. > :57:52.to come to the skills because they are looking for people to employ.
:57:53. > :57:56.Quite clearly, there is a demand therefore people. It's the worker
:57:57. > :58:01.spotted there are not paid enough? Or if the job isn't good enough? The
:58:02. > :58:05.economy and creating jobs is doing well in Cumbria and I think that's a
:58:06. > :58:09.success. What we want to do is killing up people so they can get
:58:10. > :58:12.better paid jobs and improve their standards of living, we've got to
:58:13. > :58:18.recognise unemployment is very low and employment is very high. That's
:58:19. > :58:21.a success. You are looking churlish, that's the danger. Unemployment is
:58:22. > :58:27.twice as high in the north-east as the Saudis but I'll go back to
:58:28. > :58:31.something I said. About Skilling. -- skilling up people. I mentioned
:58:32. > :58:34.earlier, in Darlington almost a quarter of the working population
:58:35. > :58:40.have no formal qualifications, by 2020 for its estimated 2% of the
:58:41. > :58:43.workforce will have no formal qualifications. There is a time bomb
:58:44. > :58:48.ticking. Unless we reinvest in skills, those are going to become
:58:49. > :58:50.the long-term unemployed. The unemployed and statistics of the
:58:51. > :58:55.future. Could I say we accept that we must scale up the youth and
:58:56. > :59:01.people for the future but look at Cumbria, we have a new problem, we
:59:02. > :59:04.will actually have a shortage of workers. We need to encourage people
:59:05. > :59:10.to come across to Cumbria to seek jobs that are going to be there.
:59:11. > :59:14.Ideally from Europe? If you are saying an opponent is so high, the
:59:15. > :59:17.north-east may gravitate to Cumbria... The jobs will be there.
:59:18. > :59:22.There are problems that Stephen Hughes talks about. Statistics can
:59:23. > :59:26.mask them. Sunderland is a big city in the north-east, one in four of
:59:27. > :59:31.the young people are unemployed. That's not acceptable. I agree, we
:59:32. > :59:34.want to do things to improve the economy there but we have to seize
:59:35. > :59:39.the opportunities, jobs are being created and I go back to, great.
:59:40. > :59:41.There is going to be a substantial number of new jobs created, we've
:59:42. > :59:48.got to encourage people to come across and take them. Many of them
:59:49. > :59:51.will be well paid. Will they be the people with the skills you are
:59:52. > :59:54.looking for? That's something we've got to try and make sure that we
:59:55. > :59:58.have this killed opportunities but at the same token I'm sure there are
:59:59. > :00:03.people in the north-east who are skilled, would like a job, why don't
:00:04. > :00:07.they come to Cumbria? Stephen and John, thank you. That's about it for
:00:08. > :00:09.this week, back same time, same place next Sunday. But you can join
:00:10. > :00:11.me. For now, back have to do this. Thank you to you
:00:12. > :00:14.both. What exactly is the government's
:00:15. > :00:24.industrial strategy? Will ministers lose their supreme
:00:25. > :00:28.court battle over Brexit, and, Well, tomorrow Theresa May
:00:29. > :00:40.is launching the government's industrial strategy -
:00:41. > :00:43.and to talk about that we're joined by the Business Minister,
:00:44. > :00:55.Margot James - welcome to the show. When you look at what has already
:00:56. > :01:02.been released in advance of the Prime Minister's statement, it was
:01:03. > :01:06.embargoed for last night, it's not really an industrial strategy, it's
:01:07. > :01:09.just another skills strategy, of which we have had about six since
:01:10. > :01:17.the war, and our skills training is among the worst in Western Europe?
:01:18. > :01:22.There will be plenty more to be announced tomorrow in what is really
:01:23. > :01:25.a discussion document in the preparation of an industrial
:01:26. > :01:32.strategy which we intend to launch properly later in the year. Let's
:01:33. > :01:40.look at skills. You are allocating 117 of funding to establish
:01:41. > :01:44.institutes of technology. How many? The exact number is to be agreed,
:01:45. > :01:49.but the spend is there, and it will be on top of what we are doing to
:01:50. > :01:53.the university, technical colleges... How many were lit bio
:01:54. > :02:00.create? We don't know exactly, but we want to put them in areas where
:02:01. > :02:06.young people are performing under the national average. But if you
:02:07. > :02:10.don't know how many, what is the basis of 170 million? That is the
:02:11. > :02:14.amount the Treasury have released. The something that is very
:02:15. > :02:20.important, we are agreed we need to devote more resources to vocational
:02:21. > :02:26.training and get it on a par with academic qualifications. I looked on
:02:27. > :02:30.the website of my old university, the University of Glasgow, the
:02:31. > :02:36.Russell group universities. Its spending budget every year is over
:02:37. > :02:44.600 million. That's one University. And yet you have a mere 170 million
:02:45. > :02:49.foreign unspecified number of institutes of technology. It hasn't
:02:50. > :02:55.got equality with the academics? You have to remember that just as you
:02:56. > :02:57.have quoted figures from Glasgow University there are further
:02:58. > :03:05.education colleges all over the country. The government is already
:03:06. > :03:12.spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But also, we are going to be adding...
:03:13. > :03:18.This is new money that is all to the good, because we are already
:03:19. > :03:21.spending a lot. We have already created 2 million more apprentices
:03:22. > :03:27.since 2010. That many are not in what we would call the stem skills,
:03:28. > :03:32.and a lot come nowhere near what the Dutch, Germans and Austrians would
:03:33. > :03:37.have. I'm not clear how another 170 million would do. You said it is
:03:38. > :03:42.more than skills. In what way is this industrial strategy different
:03:43. > :03:52.from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did before? It's different because
:03:53. > :03:53.it is involving every single government department, and bringing
:03:54. > :03:56.together everything that government does in a bid to make Britain more
:03:57. > :04:03.competitive as it disengages from the European Union. That is what the
:04:04. > :04:07.last Labour government did. They will much more targeted
:04:08. > :04:11.interventions. Under the Labour government, the auto industry got
:04:12. > :04:16.some benefit. A few more sectors were broached under the coalition
:04:17. > :04:20.government. This is all about communities all over the country,
:04:21. > :04:26.some of whom have fallen behind in terms of wage growth and good jobs.
:04:27. > :04:33.The Prime Minister has already announced 2 billion as a research
:04:34. > :04:36.and development priority in specific technologies, robotics, artificial
:04:37. > :04:42.intelligence, medical technology, satellites... So you are doing what
:04:43. > :04:47.has been done before. There is nothing new about this. Wait until
:04:48. > :04:51.tomorrow, because there will be some new strands emerging. It is the
:04:52. > :04:56.beginning of the dialogue with industry and with workers, and the
:04:57. > :05:00.responses will be invited up until April. That will inform a wider
:05:01. > :05:07.strategy that goes beyond skills. I have moved on to beyond them. I'm
:05:08. > :05:12.slightly puzzled as to how the government knows where to invest in
:05:13. > :05:18.robotics, when it can't even provide the NHS with a decent IT system.
:05:19. > :05:21.Discuss. I have to say I find it bizarre that the government is
:05:22. > :05:27.making an announcement about an amount of money and don't know where
:05:28. > :05:32.it's going. This is typical of all governments over all political
:05:33. > :05:37.shoes, which is total disregard for technical education, so different
:05:38. > :05:44.from Germany, who actually invest in the technological side. Germany has
:05:45. > :05:51.a long history. We want to emulate some of the best of what German
:05:52. > :05:55.companies do. Siemens sponsor primary schools, for example. We
:05:56. > :06:01.want to get a dialogue on with business. We don't want to decide
:06:02. > :06:07.where this money is going. By the way, it was 4.7 billion that the
:06:08. > :06:11.government has agreed to invest in science and research, which is the
:06:12. > :06:15.most significant increase in decades. Can you remind us what
:06:16. > :06:18.happened in Northern Ireland, when the government invested money in
:06:19. > :06:23.state-of-the-art technology for energy? No one needs to be reminded
:06:24. > :06:31.of that, and that is not what we are doing. We are inviting business and
:06:32. > :06:37.industry to advise where that money is best spent. That's very different
:06:38. > :06:40.from government deciding that a particular technology is for the
:06:41. > :06:47.future. The government's chief scientific adviser has determined
:06:48. > :06:52.that we will invest a huge amount in battery technology, which should
:06:53. > :06:59.benefit the electric car industry, and... This is taxpayers' money. Who
:07:00. > :07:03.gets it? Ultimately, business will get it, but often only when there is
:07:04. > :07:14.a considerable amount of private sector finance also drawn in. But
:07:15. > :07:17.who is held to account? Various government departments at local
:07:18. > :07:22.authorities will hold this list to account. A lot of it is about
:07:23. > :07:28.releasing private capital as well. Thank you very much. This week, the
:07:29. > :07:35.Supreme Court, I think we know the ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the
:07:36. > :07:40.expectation is that the judges will say Parliament will have to vote to
:07:41. > :07:44.trigger. Is this all much ado about nothing? Parliament will vote to
:07:45. > :07:48.trigger, and the government will win in the Lords and the Commons by
:07:49. > :07:54.substantial majorities, and it will be triggered? Completely. We've
:07:55. > :07:57.known that. Parliament is voted. Everyone is pretty confident that
:07:58. > :08:02.the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court's decision and say it has
:08:03. > :08:10.to go to MPs. There will be a bit of toing and froing among MPs on
:08:11. > :08:15.amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's slightly car crash interview there.
:08:16. > :08:23.The Lib Dems may throw something in, but we will trigger Article 50 by
:08:24. > :08:26.the end of March. If it also says that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff
:08:27. > :08:32.and Belfast should be picked up, that could complicate matters.
:08:33. > :08:37.Absolutely. That could delay the planned triggering of Article 50
:08:38. > :08:40.before the end of March. Not what they say about the Westminster
:08:41. > :08:45.Parliament, because it is clear that it was. I never understood the
:08:46. > :08:50.furore about that original judgment, because every MP made it clear they
:08:51. > :08:54.wouldn't block it. Even though Diane Abbott was evasive on several
:08:55. > :09:00.fronts, she said they wouldn't block it. You are right, if they give a
:09:01. > :09:05.vote, or give some authorisation for the Scottish Parliament and other
:09:06. > :09:08.devolved assemblies, that might delay the whole sequence. That is
:09:09. > :09:15.the only significant thing to watch out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs
:09:16. > :09:21.May goes to Washington. It will be another movie in the making! I would
:09:22. > :09:25.suggest that she has a tricky line to follow. She has got to be seen to
:09:26. > :09:30.be taking advantage of the fact that there is a very pro-British,
:09:31. > :09:36.pro-Brexit president in the Oval Office, who I am told is prepared to
:09:37. > :09:40.expend political capital on this. But on the other hand, to make sure
:09:41. > :09:51.that she is not what we used to call Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It
:09:52. > :09:55.is very difficult, and who would not want to be a fly on the wall in that
:09:56. > :10:00.meeting! I can't think of anyone in the world who would despise Mr Trump
:10:01. > :10:04.more than Mrs May, and for him, he dislikes any woman who does not look
:10:05. > :10:14.like a supermodel, no disrespected Mrs May. Most of it is actually
:10:15. > :10:20.anti-EU, and I think we should capitalise it. Let's get the Queen
:10:21. > :10:27.to earn her money, roll out the red carpet, invite him to dinner, spend
:10:28. > :10:31.the night, what ever we need... Trump at Balmoral! Here is the
:10:32. > :10:35.issue, because the agenda is, as we heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that
:10:36. > :10:41.this is not an administration that has much time for the EU, EU
:10:42. > :10:45.integration or Germany. I think Germany will be the second biggest
:10:46. > :10:50.loser to begin with. They will not even give a date for Angela Merkel
:10:51. > :10:58.to meet the president. This is an opportunity for Mrs May... It is a
:10:59. > :11:07.huge. It could sideline talks of the punishment beating from Germany. The
:11:08. > :11:13.Trump presidency has completely changed the field on Brexit. Along
:11:14. > :11:17.came Donald Trump, and Theresa May has this incredible opportunity
:11:18. > :11:23.here. Not of her making, but she has played her cards well. To an
:11:24. > :11:28.officially be the EU emissary to Washington, to get some sort of
:11:29. > :11:32.broker going. That gives us huge extra leveraged in the Brexit
:11:33. > :11:37.negotiations. People around the world think Germany as a currency
:11:38. > :11:41.manipulator, that it is benefiting from an underpriced euro, hence the
:11:42. > :11:45.huge surplus it runs of America, and they think it is disgraceful that a
:11:46. > :11:51.country that runs a massive budget surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP
:11:52. > :11:57.on defence, and America runs a massive deficit and needs to spend a
:11:58. > :12:04.lot more. He's going for Germany. And what a massive shift. I think
:12:05. > :12:07.Obama was quite open, in a farewell interview, that he felt closer to
:12:08. > :12:14.Merkel than any other European leader. And Jamie kind of reflected
:12:15. > :12:20.that in our discussion. Yes, that's very interesting discussion. I think
:12:21. > :12:24.she was the last person he spoke to in the White House, Obama. And now
:12:25. > :12:30.you are getting the onslaught from Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery
:12:31. > :12:35.is dangerous, though. Blair was hypnotised by it and was too scared
:12:36. > :12:41.to criticise Bush, because he wanted to be seen in that light, and we
:12:42. > :12:44.know where that led. Cameron similarly with Obama, which
:12:45. > :12:50.presented him with problems, as Obama didn't regard him as his
:12:51. > :12:55.number one pin up in Europe. I would put a note of caution in there about
:12:56. > :13:01.the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. Everything Trump is doing now is
:13:02. > :13:06.different from before, so Mrs May should not have any of these
:13:07. > :13:10.previous relationships in her mind. That is not entirely true. Donald
:13:11. > :13:18.Trump aches to be the new Ronald Reagan. He may be impeached first!
:13:19. > :13:20.He sees her as the new Margaret Thatcher, and that may her leveraged
:13:21. > :13:28.with him. Thank you. We'll be back here at the same time
:13:29. > :13:33.next week, and you can catch up on all the latest political news
:13:34. > :13:35.on the Daily Politics, In the meantime, remember -
:13:36. > :13:39.if it's Sunday, It's just pain,
:13:40. > :14:17.but it doesn't feel like pain, it feels much more violent,
:14:18. > :14:40.dark and exciting. Join Michael Buerk as he explores
:14:41. > :14:46.the dishes fit for kings and queens. When it comes to extravagance, few
:14:47. > :14:50.monarchs can compete with George IV. If that was for breakfast, I dread
:14:51. > :14:54.to think what he had for dinner.