:01:07. > :01:11.Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven
:01:12. > :01:16.mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.
:01:17. > :01:18.In the North East and Cumbria: the government promises
:01:19. > :01:21.a new hands-on approach to industry, but can the new strategy turn
:01:22. > :01:24.We report from the jobs blackspot of East Cleveland?
:01:25. > :01:25.Should she have spoken out more strongly?
:01:26. > :01:28.We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage
:01:29. > :01:30.what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's
:01:31. > :01:33.In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,
:01:34. > :01:36.has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze
:01:37. > :01:37.and why it doesn't apply to everybody.
:01:38. > :01:39.And with me, the best and brightest political
:01:40. > :01:41.panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia
:01:42. > :01:43.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:44. > :01:47.It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that
:01:48. > :01:49.Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven
:01:50. > :01:55.President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,
:01:56. > :01:59.Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from
:02:00. > :02:03.where refugees are banned from until further notice.
:02:04. > :02:05.Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban
:02:06. > :02:11.on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.
:02:12. > :02:15.Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out
:02:16. > :02:23.But the ban has sparked protests across the US,
:02:24. > :02:26.as people affected and already in the air were detained
:02:27. > :02:29.US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many
:02:30. > :02:36.At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked
:02:37. > :02:40.about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...
:02:41. > :02:43.Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'
:02:44. > :02:49.The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy
:02:50. > :02:51.on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number
:02:52. > :02:54.of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.
:02:55. > :03:09.Downing Street later issued a statement saying:
:03:10. > :03:12.This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why
:03:13. > :03:14.Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's
:03:15. > :03:20.The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip
:03:21. > :03:24.She wants to see the evidence, she wants
:03:25. > :03:29.to understand precisely what the implications are.
:03:30. > :03:31.She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with
:03:32. > :03:35.President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and
:03:36. > :03:39.understand it, and then will respond to that.
:03:40. > :03:41.I think there are times where, you know, there's always
:03:42. > :03:45.pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.
:03:46. > :03:47.The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it
:03:48. > :03:51.We're joined now from North London by the Conservative
:03:52. > :04:03.Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more
:04:04. > :04:11.vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David
:04:12. > :04:15.just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an
:04:16. > :04:19.appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I
:04:20. > :04:26.wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects
:04:27. > :04:30.our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it
:04:31. > :04:37.is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with
:04:38. > :04:40.Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but
:04:41. > :04:45.she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism
:04:46. > :04:51.about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in
:04:52. > :04:53.Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street
:04:54. > :04:56.spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have
:04:57. > :05:01.not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of
:05:02. > :05:05.criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,
:05:06. > :05:09.so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I
:05:10. > :05:13.wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the
:05:14. > :05:18.moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address
:05:19. > :05:22.things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the
:05:23. > :05:30.hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you
:05:31. > :05:33.like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is
:05:34. > :05:36.about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she
:05:37. > :05:39.should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would
:05:40. > :05:43.have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald
:05:44. > :05:45.Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to
:05:46. > :05:50.understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with
:05:51. > :05:54.the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would
:05:55. > :05:58.engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day
:05:59. > :06:03.temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority
:06:04. > :06:09.population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the
:06:10. > :06:13.biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this
:06:14. > :06:19.temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is
:06:20. > :06:23.wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through
:06:24. > :06:26.and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.
:06:27. > :06:31.It can't be right that a president in that position of power can
:06:32. > :06:36.arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already
:06:37. > :06:41.been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach
:06:42. > :06:45.I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by
:06:46. > :06:59.this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?
:07:00. > :07:04.I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by
:07:05. > :07:08.this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are
:07:09. > :07:11.desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by
:07:12. > :07:15.this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only
:07:16. > :07:18.because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it
:07:19. > :07:23.is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do
:07:24. > :07:29.you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is
:07:30. > :07:32.the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work
:07:33. > :07:37.with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was
:07:38. > :07:40.that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our
:07:41. > :07:46.country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is
:07:47. > :07:49.the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate
:07:50. > :07:54.within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,
:07:55. > :07:58.but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,
:07:59. > :08:01.should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a
:08:02. > :08:07.great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of
:08:08. > :08:10.Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the
:08:11. > :08:15.protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I
:08:16. > :08:20.believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have
:08:21. > :08:24.achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a
:08:25. > :08:27.number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am
:08:28. > :08:30.inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege
:08:31. > :08:36.of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places
:08:37. > :08:39.where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the
:08:40. > :08:50.right place. Thank you for joining us.
:08:51. > :08:56.Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald
:08:57. > :09:00.Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,
:09:01. > :09:05.particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going
:09:06. > :09:10.to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on
:09:11. > :09:15.every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa
:09:16. > :09:20.May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time
:09:21. > :09:25.to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.
:09:26. > :09:34.When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and
:09:35. > :09:38.can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying
:09:39. > :09:42.more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing
:09:43. > :09:46.Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going
:09:47. > :09:49.to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's
:09:50. > :09:54.going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It
:09:55. > :09:59.does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special
:10:00. > :10:02.relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven
:10:03. > :10:08.wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.
:10:09. > :10:12.You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for
:10:13. > :10:16.American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what
:10:17. > :10:22.Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why
:10:23. > :10:25.I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has
:10:26. > :10:30.implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was
:10:31. > :10:36.campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real
:10:37. > :10:39.Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the
:10:40. > :10:45.executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a
:10:46. > :10:49.class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day
:10:50. > :10:55.limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,
:10:56. > :10:59.President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.
:11:00. > :11:02.Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in
:11:03. > :11:10.recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with
:11:11. > :11:15.Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned
:11:16. > :11:19.been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not
:11:20. > :11:23.included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in
:11:24. > :11:26.such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal
:11:27. > :11:36.thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It
:11:37. > :11:41.is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge
:11:42. > :11:46.in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue
:11:47. > :11:51.for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree
:11:52. > :11:55.with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa
:11:56. > :12:01.May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is
:12:02. > :12:07.reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is
:12:08. > :12:11.nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with
:12:12. > :12:17.him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time
:12:18. > :12:20.now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee
:12:21. > :12:26.policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as
:12:27. > :12:31.well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this
:12:32. > :12:35.anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she
:12:36. > :12:38.says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.
:12:39. > :12:43.These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does
:12:44. > :12:47.something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her
:12:48. > :12:52.administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical
:12:53. > :12:56.situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in
:12:57. > :13:01.the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.
:13:02. > :13:03.We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless
:13:04. > :13:08.communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for
:13:09. > :13:12.large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't
:13:13. > :13:16.excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via
:13:17. > :13:20.Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible
:13:21. > :13:24.excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than
:13:25. > :13:29.many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with
:13:30. > :13:32.the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of
:13:33. > :13:36.Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is
:13:37. > :13:42.already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't
:13:43. > :13:44.know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky
:13:45. > :13:48.situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first
:13:49. > :13:51.foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit
:13:52. > :13:53.was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,
:13:54. > :13:56.keen for a new trading relationship with the United States
:13:57. > :13:58.in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated
:13:59. > :14:00.the new US President for his "stunning election victory"
:14:01. > :14:02.but might not have intended to be pictured walking
:14:03. > :14:05.through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping
:14:06. > :14:09.Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade
:14:10. > :14:12.will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President
:14:13. > :14:20.told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister
:14:21. > :14:23.said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries
:14:24. > :14:27.increased their defence spending It's been announced
:14:28. > :14:33.that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,
:14:34. > :14:34.with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead
:14:35. > :14:40.to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as
:14:41. > :14:44.Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's
:14:45. > :14:47.going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear
:14:48. > :14:50.to Donald Trump her continued
:14:51. > :14:55.backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over
:14:56. > :14:58.the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer
:14:59. > :15:00.to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues
:15:01. > :15:04.that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former
:15:05. > :15:20.Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's
:15:21. > :15:24.decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the
:15:25. > :15:28.United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which
:15:29. > :15:33.appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He
:15:34. > :15:36.was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to
:15:37. > :15:44.protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven
:15:45. > :15:50.countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if
:15:51. > :15:56.he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just
:15:57. > :16:00.look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela
:16:01. > :16:06.Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,
:16:07. > :16:09.look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all
:16:10. > :16:15.of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria
:16:16. > :16:20.literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in
:16:21. > :16:23.virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have
:16:24. > :16:28.been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of
:16:29. > :16:33.a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of
:16:34. > :16:37.persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But
:16:38. > :16:41.you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you
:16:42. > :16:45.said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing
:16:46. > :16:52.Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees
:16:53. > :17:00.into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.
:17:01. > :17:04.He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those
:17:05. > :17:09.comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's
:17:10. > :17:14.policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is
:17:15. > :17:17.fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this
:17:18. > :17:27.country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any
:17:28. > :17:31.terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have
:17:32. > :17:36.been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have
:17:37. > :17:41.been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why
:17:42. > :17:44.would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people
:17:45. > :17:48.that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into
:17:49. > :17:54.Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not
:17:55. > :17:57.for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening
:17:58. > :18:02.process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with
:18:03. > :18:07.the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to
:18:08. > :18:10.America, they then go through biometric screening, database
:18:11. > :18:21.screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence
:18:22. > :18:29.agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It
:18:30. > :18:33.is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we
:18:34. > :18:36.have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald
:18:37. > :18:42.Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and
:18:43. > :18:45.then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned
:18:46. > :18:52.he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since
:18:53. > :18:57.you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing
:18:58. > :19:01.you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not
:19:02. > :19:04.asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you
:19:05. > :19:11.take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,
:19:12. > :19:14.of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in
:19:15. > :19:18.terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say
:19:19. > :19:21.it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the
:19:22. > :19:25.world have not been included in this. The point is they have made
:19:26. > :19:31.this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about
:19:32. > :19:37.the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him
:19:38. > :19:41.to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you
:19:42. > :19:46.feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total
:19:47. > :19:51.ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that
:19:52. > :19:55.what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be
:19:56. > :20:02.talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We
:20:03. > :20:08.will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What
:20:09. > :20:14.advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa
:20:15. > :20:18.May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the
:20:19. > :20:22.Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been
:20:23. > :20:27.surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who
:20:28. > :20:31.say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make
:20:32. > :20:34.it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can
:20:35. > :20:38.be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister
:20:39. > :20:44.who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally
:20:45. > :20:49.herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial
:20:50. > :20:54.president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building
:20:55. > :20:58.a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking
:20:59. > :21:03.of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is
:21:04. > :21:08.controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke
:21:09. > :21:13.in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it
:21:14. > :21:16.is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the
:21:17. > :21:20.British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I
:21:21. > :21:24.think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in
:21:25. > :21:28.her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato
:21:29. > :21:34.members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there
:21:35. > :21:39.is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the
:21:40. > :21:43.Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms
:21:44. > :21:51.of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good
:21:52. > :21:54.as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying
:21:55. > :21:59.this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control
:22:00. > :22:02.immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good
:22:03. > :22:07.speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I
:22:08. > :22:10.could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying
:22:11. > :22:17.things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have
:22:18. > :22:21.a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can
:22:22. > :22:25.see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a
:22:26. > :22:29.priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French
:22:30. > :22:34.elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I
:22:35. > :22:37.worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress
:22:38. > :22:44.and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.
:22:45. > :22:48.What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say
:22:49. > :22:52.OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough
:22:53. > :22:58.stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a
:22:59. > :23:01.deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot
:23:02. > :23:07.sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,
:23:08. > :23:12.we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,
:23:13. > :23:16.maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until
:23:17. > :23:20.we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will
:23:21. > :23:24.find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and
:23:25. > :23:29.countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that
:23:30. > :23:33.will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the
:23:34. > :23:37.Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you
:23:38. > :23:41.agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.
:23:42. > :23:46.If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you
:23:47. > :23:50.approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any
:23:51. > :23:56.political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,
:23:57. > :23:59.there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip
:24:00. > :24:05.loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,
:24:06. > :24:09.they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and
:24:10. > :24:13.I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that
:24:14. > :24:16.says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen
:24:17. > :24:22.to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the
:24:23. > :24:26.Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over
:24:27. > :24:31.this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition
:24:32. > :24:36.will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's
:24:37. > :24:40.best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of
:24:41. > :24:46.Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to
:24:47. > :24:55.fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.
:24:56. > :24:59.If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,
:25:00. > :25:03.there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always
:25:04. > :25:10.been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't
:25:11. > :25:15.it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it
:25:16. > :25:19.does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and
:25:20. > :25:21.Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for
:25:22. > :25:23.being with us. It's just gone 11.25,
:25:24. > :25:25.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:25:26. > :25:27.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll
:25:28. > :25:38.be talking to our political panel. Hello and a warm welcome
:25:39. > :25:41.to your local part of the show. Shorter than usual but still
:25:42. > :25:44.of course, perfectly formed. Asking if the government's
:25:45. > :25:56.new industrial strategy can help create prosperity and jobs
:25:57. > :25:58.in the north-east and Cumbria. But first, Parliament
:25:59. > :26:01.will get its say over Brexit. But how many MPs and peers
:26:02. > :26:05.from the North are willing to defy the views of their constituents
:26:06. > :26:08.and try and delay or even try and stop the UK leaving
:26:09. > :26:10.the European Union? Andy McDonald is the MP
:26:11. > :26:13.of Middlesborough and Shadow Lord Callanan is a former
:26:14. > :26:16.Conservative Euro MP, Andy McDonald, you
:26:17. > :26:23.campaigned to remain. But two thirds of Middlesborough
:26:24. > :26:26.voters, as we well When it comes to the vote,
:26:27. > :26:30.how do you weigh those two things? At the end of the day,
:26:31. > :26:37.the nation has spoken and the result is clear and I think as a Democrat,
:26:38. > :26:41.I think we have to accept So I will be voting to trigger
:26:42. > :26:45.Article 50, and I think that is absolutely the right
:26:46. > :26:47.thing to do. It is the beginning of the process,
:26:48. > :26:51.not the end of it. But you know that a lot
:26:52. > :26:54.of your colleagues don't see The MP for Durham City, she believes
:26:55. > :26:58.that the constituency voted remain I think it's hugely difficult
:26:59. > :27:02.for colleagues right across all the parties,
:27:03. > :27:05.by the way, it isn't just We represent the entire
:27:06. > :27:14.country, and of course And that actually is the right place
:27:15. > :27:18.to be, in recognising those that did vote,
:27:19. > :27:20.the majority, albeit by a small margin, did vote to leave,
:27:21. > :27:22.as well as the 48%. You said you respect democratic
:27:23. > :27:30.decision of the public. Does that just apply to the locale
:27:31. > :27:33.of your area or does that apply What we have to do is bring
:27:34. > :27:37.the entire country together and what we have got to make sure
:27:38. > :27:41.is that we get the best deal for Britain out of this and that's
:27:42. > :27:44.got to be where we should concentrate our efforts accept
:27:45. > :27:49.the com of the referendum Those who are abstaining, should
:27:50. > :27:59.they resign from their position? Well my personal view is that I hope
:28:00. > :28:03.that we don't have people leaving. But quite frankly that is a matter
:28:04. > :28:07.for the Chief Whip, you need Nick Browne to be sitting in this
:28:08. > :28:09.chair to answer that. If you defy a three line whip,
:28:10. > :28:12.should you be disciplined? I have made it abundantly clear
:28:13. > :28:14.that this is in enormously I think this is one of the most
:28:15. > :28:20.difficult things that any politician will deal with in their career
:28:21. > :28:34.and this is hugely important for for our nation, the most important
:28:35. > :28:39.thing to have happened I am unclear about what you
:28:40. > :28:44.think about that then. I am sure you are going to vote
:28:45. > :28:48.against Article 50. I am in favour of
:28:49. > :28:51.triggering article 15. What's wrong with MPs voting
:28:52. > :29:04.with a conscience against it? Because MPs voted to
:29:05. > :29:06.have a referendum on the issue, all parties recognise that this
:29:07. > :29:16.was an issue that strong opinions on either side split the political
:29:17. > :29:19.parties, so they decided to consult There was a record turnout, higher
:29:20. > :29:23.indeed than the general election. People voted to leave, the country
:29:24. > :29:26.voted to leave as a whole. The only legal way to leave
:29:27. > :29:29.is by triggering this Article 50 Ergo MPs should vote
:29:30. > :29:31.to trigger Article 50. I think Andy is quite
:29:32. > :29:34.right in his view. But if they look at their
:29:35. > :29:36.constituency and think, actually the majority of the people
:29:37. > :29:38.in my constituency didn't want to leave and I think it's not
:29:39. > :29:41.in their interest to leave, Because it wasn't decided
:29:42. > :29:45.on a constituency by We are a nation, we decide
:29:46. > :29:50.as a whole on this issue. The referendum was across
:29:51. > :29:52.the whole of the country. That was the democratic decision
:29:53. > :29:55.that they arrived at. A lot of Labour MPs and indeed a lot
:29:56. > :30:00.of conservatives have a lot of qualms about the government's
:30:01. > :30:02.approach to this. They had to be dragged kicking
:30:03. > :30:05.and screaming to publish this way paper that they weren't going to do,
:30:06. > :30:08.definitely not going to do. It's not actually been
:30:09. > :30:09.handled that well. Personally, I think
:30:10. > :30:11.that the government were silly to challenge
:30:12. > :30:13.the High Court decision. When we fought the referendum
:30:14. > :30:16.for the supremacy of Parliament to then say that Parliament wasn't
:30:17. > :30:19.being consulted, I think I think was an error
:30:20. > :30:22.on Theresa May's part I'd we should have just gone ahead and put Article
:30:23. > :30:25.50 to Parliament in the first place. There was no prospect
:30:26. > :30:27.of it being defeated But to look at it conversely,
:30:28. > :30:35.I as a Brexiteer, if the country had voted to remain,
:30:36. > :30:37.I would have had to accept that. That was the democratic decision
:30:38. > :30:40.that the country had arrived at. As it didn't, as we voted to leave,
:30:41. > :30:43.then we should leave. Andy McDonald, is this
:30:44. > :30:45.a bit of a mess for From a man who never
:30:46. > :30:51.really respected He is telling his colleagues
:30:52. > :31:04.that they have got to abide by it. We are a national party, we have got
:31:05. > :31:11.to come to the firm view. We are making it abundantly clear
:31:12. > :31:15.that we will not frustrate this MPs that are going to vote
:31:16. > :31:25.for it, MPs that are not. I have already explained,
:31:26. > :31:27.those MPs have got those difficult decisions to make,
:31:28. > :31:30.but we as a leadership have got to show that there is a firm line
:31:31. > :31:33.on this and there is. There is a three line whip on it, it
:31:34. > :31:36.doesn't get any stronger than that. If you do not have a three line
:31:37. > :31:39.whip, you cannot have members of the front bench
:31:40. > :31:41.defying it, though. We cannot sit on the front bench
:31:42. > :31:44.if you don't be a three line Well, we'll see what happens
:31:45. > :31:48.in the coming days Now how to spread prosperity
:31:49. > :31:53.beyond London and the South East Well the government this week
:31:54. > :31:57.produced what it says are a more hands-on industrial strategy
:31:58. > :31:59.which aims to do just that. It comes with extra money,
:32:00. > :32:01.just under ?50 million A chunk of which will go
:32:02. > :32:05.towards an advanced manufacturing park in South Tyneside
:32:06. > :32:06.and Sunderland close There will be 12.7 million
:32:07. > :32:10.for the local enterprise partnership to spend in Cumbria and 21.8 million
:32:11. > :32:12.for the Tees Valley. So, what's the reaction
:32:13. > :32:15.to the new industrial strategy been in areas like East Cleveland,
:32:16. > :32:17.which have struggled to deal with the loss
:32:18. > :32:19.of traditional industrial jobs? Well, David McMillan
:32:20. > :32:27.went to find out. Iron and stone mined
:32:28. > :32:29.in this hills here, helped In the villages of East Cleveland
:32:30. > :32:33.there are signs that it was a prosperous place once but it's not
:32:34. > :32:35.so prosperous now. The government says its industrial
:32:36. > :32:38.strategy will spread opportunity But will it really make an impact
:32:39. > :32:42.in a place like this? There's a lot of diverse people
:32:43. > :32:48.around here with good ideas Because Loftus is a good place,
:32:49. > :32:54.it has a lot of good people. But now it's like everyone is down,
:32:55. > :32:58.worrying about their jobs and effects that they don't work,
:32:59. > :33:01.it affects lots of pubs, Hundreds of jobs have then lost
:33:02. > :33:05.here in recent years but the hot ash The boss here thinks the industrial
:33:06. > :33:09.strategy can help them move East Cleveland has got a long
:33:10. > :33:13.history of strong industrial And with the right funding
:33:14. > :33:16.and the right focus, you know we can continue to build
:33:17. > :33:19.on that history. Think tank, IPPR North strongly
:33:20. > :33:21.welcomed the strategy. They say close attention
:33:22. > :33:23.is needed though to make We need the investment in innovation
:33:24. > :33:27.really to work for areas like this. We need the investment and skills
:33:28. > :33:30.to work across regions and we need that investment and skills to go
:33:31. > :33:33.right through the workforce to work for older workers,
:33:34. > :33:37.for people already in work, not just people starting out,
:33:38. > :33:40.so that they can reskill When the steelworks closed in nearby
:33:41. > :33:44.Redcar, the lack of a clear strategy on steel was one of the reasons
:33:45. > :34:00.blamed for its collapse. The steel industry survives
:34:01. > :34:02.here the new owners have But union reps say they need
:34:03. > :34:08.more practical support from the government,
:34:09. > :34:09.like using British Steel, We have the infrastructure here,
:34:10. > :34:13.we could make the steel, we could make the product
:34:14. > :34:15.which they seem to want If we could get the gas
:34:16. > :34:24.and the electric cheaper coming in the door and the rates
:34:25. > :34:28.on the premises, give us a level playing field and we can
:34:29. > :34:29.compete with anybody. A local MP here is also
:34:30. > :34:32.focused on what's missing The main concerns I have
:34:33. > :34:36.are at the solitary single mention of steel in the entire document
:34:37. > :34:38.in the Green paper. The lack of any mention
:34:39. > :34:40.on capturing storage. The real issue for me is the lack
:34:41. > :34:43.of clarity in finance coming forward from the government in terms
:34:44. > :34:46.of what they are willing to fund. There is a general consensus that
:34:47. > :34:48.developing an industrial strategy is a step forward in itself
:34:49. > :34:52.but the government has work to do to convince some in East Cleveland
:34:53. > :34:54.that it does enough to make Martin Callanan, is the strategy
:34:55. > :34:59.partially an admission that the lack of any strategic thinking over steel
:35:00. > :35:02.was disastrous both for an industry that was key to this country
:35:03. > :35:05.and to communities on Teesside? I don't think the strategy is just
:35:06. > :35:08.based on steel, of course not. There are many other industries
:35:09. > :35:10.in many other areas that will benefit from this ?20 million
:35:11. > :35:13.as your film has said that has been allocated
:35:14. > :35:15.to the Local Enterprise Partnership It will be up to them to decide how
:35:16. > :35:20.they are going to spend it. But we got some of the hints
:35:21. > :35:22.from the film there, investment in skills,
:35:23. > :35:24.investment in digital infrastructure And of course leaving the EU
:35:25. > :35:29.would allow us to do something But is it an admission
:35:30. > :35:36.that the government got it wrong though for steel to let
:35:37. > :35:39.a steel mill like the one The answer to your question is what
:35:40. > :35:44.could they have done to save it? Beyond stepping in and ploughing
:35:45. > :35:46.into tens, possibly even hundreds of millions of pounds that
:35:47. > :35:49.would have went to Thailand's investment banks, there was little
:35:50. > :35:51.that the government could do. They looked at it very closely
:35:52. > :35:53.and concluded and even with an industrial strategy,
:35:54. > :35:56.it's not clear how the steelworks I don't want this to dominate
:35:57. > :36:01.the debate about the mill Do you accept this is a real step
:36:02. > :36:14.forward, a strategy, industrial strategy,
:36:15. > :36:28.because that was an anathema until recently, Sajid Javid
:36:29. > :36:30.didn't say it. But to answer the question that
:36:31. > :36:33.Martin didn't, this is a stark admission that the government didn't
:36:34. > :36:34.respond correctly Italian governments, German,
:36:35. > :36:45.and French governments have stepped in and didn't breach
:36:46. > :36:47.state aid rules. There were no findings
:36:48. > :36:49.of any breach. Those jobs could have been saved
:36:50. > :36:53.and there could a much more And I know from the inside track
:36:54. > :37:02.that the decision could have been There was a successful power plant
:37:03. > :37:06.and also the whole... On the strategy itself,
:37:07. > :37:08.what you make of it? It has got lofty ambitions
:37:09. > :37:11.and ideas which is wonderful. But we will succeed if we focus
:37:12. > :37:15.upon advanced manufacturing, the aerospace, the automotive
:37:16. > :37:17.industries, they are our successful 75% of the steel produced now didn't
:37:18. > :37:24.exist just a few short years ago, so we've got to make sure
:37:25. > :37:26.that we are up slightly We've got some major
:37:27. > :37:29.infrastructure projects, We got to make sure that British
:37:30. > :37:33.made steel plays a huge Now that we are leaving the EU
:37:34. > :37:37.and we will be subject We can in fact put more procurement
:37:38. > :37:53.laws which dead people towards, It is one of the central points
:37:54. > :37:57.of the flaws in the strategy, Is that not going to be the biggest
:37:58. > :38:02.impact on our industry and actually, you know, given that much
:38:03. > :38:04.of the industry of this nation, half of the export trade is with the EU,
:38:05. > :38:08.you can doing anything without thinking how
:38:09. > :38:09.that is great and pack? Actually one of the biggest benefits
:38:10. > :38:12.for the industry has been the reduction in the value
:38:13. > :38:14.of the pound, since we It might be short-term,
:38:15. > :38:19.but it has provided a 15-20% fall, You talk to businesses in the area
:38:20. > :38:23.and they say it's making It's not a long-term strategy,
:38:24. > :38:27.clearly, but it is making It will allow us to do something
:38:28. > :38:30.about the emissions trading scheme and, energy prices,
:38:31. > :38:32.state aid rules, etc. I'm not saying that we should be
:38:33. > :38:35.investing directly larger amounts That would be a huge mistake
:38:36. > :38:39.and a mistake we made The suspicion is that the Labour
:38:40. > :38:42.strategy would be to bail It's about investing
:38:43. > :38:46.in successful industries. It's about facilitating
:38:47. > :38:48.their growth and development. It's about personal
:38:49. > :38:54.investment, isn't it. There were opportunity is missed
:38:55. > :38:57.over Redcar and it's a tragedy. Because it is people who pay
:38:58. > :38:59.the price ultimately and they're the ones who lose their jobs
:39:00. > :39:02.and a Tory government could have And it is to their eternal shame
:39:03. > :39:06.that they let that happen. It closed under a Labour
:39:07. > :39:08.government and reopened under It was not closed under
:39:09. > :39:11.a Labour government. It was mothballed, we are not
:39:12. > :39:14.win to agree on that. I am sure we will discuss that
:39:15. > :39:19.strategy in the near future. Now the latest on the Copeland
:39:20. > :39:20.local by-election. The rest of the week's
:39:21. > :39:26.news in 60 seconds. 24 Labour MPs from the north-east
:39:27. > :39:29.have written to to Theresa May saying her decision to pull the UK
:39:30. > :39:32.out of the EU single market and Customs union
:39:33. > :39:34.will have a damaging impact The formal go-ahead has been
:39:35. > :39:37.given for the by-election The writ was moved in the Commons
:39:38. > :39:42.by Labour's Chief Whip, Nick Browne. To make out a new writ
:39:43. > :39:46.for the electing of a member to serve in this present Parliament
:39:47. > :39:49.for the county Campaigning in the constituency,
:39:50. > :40:04.which is held by Labour with a 2,500 Conservative Party Chairman Patrick
:40:05. > :40:18.McLoughlin and Ukip leader Paul Paul Nuttall were both
:40:19. > :40:20.in the area this week. The Tories have chosen
:40:21. > :40:23.Trudie Harrison, who in the past has worked for Copeland Council
:40:24. > :40:25.and Sellafield as their candidate. While software engineer
:40:26. > :40:27.Jack Lennox will fight the seat Labour, Ukip and the Liberal
:40:28. > :40:30.Democrats have already selected. We will have a special programme
:40:31. > :40:31.on Copeland in February. air-pollution. Thank you for being
:40:32. > :40:37.here. Welcome back and let's get back
:40:38. > :40:42.to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven
:40:43. > :40:47.mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader,
:40:48. > :40:50.Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK
:40:51. > :41:03.should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong
:41:04. > :41:09.for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be
:41:10. > :41:12.challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should
:41:13. > :41:17.come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted.
:41:18. > :41:21.Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long
:41:22. > :41:26.term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going
:41:27. > :41:32.to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be
:41:33. > :41:36.anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe
:41:37. > :41:40.territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until
:41:41. > :41:45.summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people
:41:46. > :41:49.coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees
:41:50. > :41:53.from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on
:41:54. > :42:00.Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in
:42:01. > :42:03.mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world
:42:04. > :42:07.that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when
:42:08. > :42:12.it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the
:42:13. > :42:17.civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500
:42:18. > :42:26.Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a
:42:27. > :42:29.hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now,
:42:30. > :42:36.although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is
:42:37. > :42:39.discovering that being a president is different from being a business
:42:40. > :42:43.man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a
:42:44. > :42:48.backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss
:42:49. > :42:52.with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this,
:42:53. > :42:56.and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial
:42:57. > :43:01.ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any
:43:02. > :43:07.opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the
:43:08. > :43:11.streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an
:43:12. > :43:15.international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit
:43:16. > :43:18.are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have
:43:19. > :43:22.suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you
:43:23. > :43:28.have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal
:43:29. > :43:33.Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who
:43:34. > :43:40.would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one
:43:41. > :43:44.subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in
:43:45. > :43:48.front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic.
:43:49. > :43:52.Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played
:43:53. > :43:55.host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we
:43:56. > :44:01.have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how
:44:02. > :44:05.serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often
:44:06. > :44:13.are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still
:44:14. > :44:16.won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place
:44:17. > :44:19.in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the
:44:20. > :44:25.opposite the next day. Brown did the same.
:44:26. > :44:34.Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide
:44:35. > :44:38.because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on
:44:39. > :44:42.the major government, even though their position on the single
:44:43. > :44:47.currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of
:44:48. > :44:51.leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to
:44:52. > :44:55.dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over
:44:56. > :45:00.Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble,
:45:01. > :45:04.but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in
:45:05. > :45:10.danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political
:45:11. > :45:14.conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we
:45:15. > :45:18.are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that
:45:19. > :45:23.vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would
:45:24. > :45:27.have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece
:45:28. > :45:33.of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial
:45:34. > :45:37.world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to
:45:38. > :45:41.worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the
:45:42. > :45:46.legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a
:45:47. > :45:51.big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year
:45:52. > :45:54.is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely
:45:55. > :45:59.hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an
:46:00. > :46:04.incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you
:46:05. > :46:08.politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've
:46:09. > :46:12.already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You
:46:13. > :46:17.have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to
:46:18. > :46:22.stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies,
:46:23. > :46:27.and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we
:46:28. > :46:30.have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if
:46:31. > :46:33.it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will
:46:34. > :46:38.be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said
:46:39. > :46:44.regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU
:46:45. > :46:50.citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get
:46:51. > :46:56.through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all
:46:57. > :47:02.know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it
:47:03. > :47:05.won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with
:47:06. > :47:09.those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but
:47:10. > :47:14.the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's
:47:15. > :47:19.already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU
:47:20. > :47:23.governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit
:47:24. > :47:27.for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it
:47:28. > :47:31.through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey
:47:32. > :47:35.through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has
:47:36. > :47:41.been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there
:47:42. > :47:47.will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of
:47:48. > :47:53.the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and
:47:54. > :47:57.see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means
:47:58. > :48:02.unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s
:48:03. > :48:10.when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony
:48:11. > :48:16.Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in
:48:17. > :48:23.or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever.
:48:24. > :48:24.But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this
:48:25. > :48:26.week. The Daily Politics is back
:48:27. > :48:30.tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here
:48:31. > :48:33.on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:48:34. > :48:40.it's the Sunday Politics.