19/03/2017

:00:36. > :00:39.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:40. > :00:43.She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,

:00:44. > :00:55.After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.

:00:56. > :00:57.With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,

:00:58. > :01:02.Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.

:01:03. > :01:05.NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission

:01:06. > :01:09.impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,

:01:10. > :01:13.unless hospitals are given more cash this year.

:01:14. > :01:16.The chief executive of NHS Providers joins me live.

:01:17. > :01:18.Here, border reaction from Berwick to the possibility of

:01:19. > :01:23.And what is the future for the tens of thousands of

:01:24. > :01:28.Europeans living and working in the Northeast?

:01:29. > :01:38.All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking

:01:39. > :01:40.to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg

:01:41. > :01:43.from his party's spring conference in York.

:01:44. > :01:47.With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,

:01:48. > :01:49.three of the country's top political commentators:

:01:50. > :01:55.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

:01:56. > :01:57.They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.

:01:58. > :02:00.So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.

:02:01. > :02:06.As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,

:02:07. > :02:09.the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum

:02:10. > :02:13.on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts

:02:14. > :02:16.to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key

:02:17. > :02:21.budget measure just one week after announcing it.

:02:22. > :02:23.Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week

:02:24. > :02:40.Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First

:02:41. > :02:42.Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.

:02:43. > :02:44.She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK

:02:45. > :02:49.By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's

:02:50. > :02:51.future will be decided, not just by me, the

:02:52. > :02:52.Scottish Government, or the

:02:53. > :02:55.SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.

:02:56. > :03:05.Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject

:03:06. > :03:08.amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to

:03:09. > :03:22.The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned

:03:23. > :03:24.attempts to change it and it becomes law.

:03:25. > :03:31.But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.

:03:32. > :03:33.Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.

:03:34. > :03:50.We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the

:03:51. > :03:52.We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling

:03:53. > :04:03.the planned rise in National Insurance for

:04:04. > :04:04.the self-employed announced the budget.

:04:05. > :04:06.It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.

:04:07. > :04:08.The trend towards greater self-employment does create a

:04:09. > :04:11.We will bring forward further proposals

:04:12. > :04:14.but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this

:04:15. > :04:18.It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.

:04:19. > :04:21.By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues

:04:22. > :04:25.fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax

:04:26. > :04:34.Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the

:04:35. > :04:36.Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending

:04:37. > :04:39.But that's not what the Prime Minister

:04:40. > :04:46.Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a

:04:47. > :04:50.We should be working together, not pulling apart.

:04:51. > :04:52.We should be working together to get that

:04:53. > :04:54.right deal for Scotland, that

:04:55. > :04:59.So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and

:05:00. > :05:02.so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.

:05:03. > :05:04.Friday and time for the faithful to gather.

:05:05. > :05:06.SNP activists at their spring conference

:05:07. > :05:17.Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister

:05:18. > :05:20.promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.

:05:21. > :05:23.At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly

:05:24. > :05:29.I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The

:05:30. > :05:31.Evening Standard and, you know, with so many

:05:32. > :05:33.big issues in our world what

:05:34. > :05:38.good analysis, great news journalism.

:05:39. > :05:43.It's a really important time for good journalism that The

:05:44. > :05:45.Evening Standard is going to provide.

:05:46. > :05:52.There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals

:05:53. > :05:57.Under my proposals we keep the Barnett

:05:58. > :06:00.Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the

:06:01. > :06:05.and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.

:06:06. > :06:08.And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the

:06:09. > :06:25.What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,

:06:26. > :06:30.Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign

:06:31. > :06:33.of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the

:06:34. > :06:41.events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with

:06:42. > :06:45.the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy

:06:46. > :06:50.periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and

:06:51. > :06:55.try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.

:06:56. > :06:59.Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or

:07:00. > :07:02.so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily

:07:03. > :07:06.the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel

:07:07. > :07:10.more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential

:07:11. > :07:14.drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your

:07:15. > :07:18.original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic

:07:19. > :07:23.quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory

:07:24. > :07:27.backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school

:07:28. > :07:30.funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will

:07:31. > :07:35.get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.

:07:36. > :07:40.Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister

:07:41. > :07:44.said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime

:07:45. > :07:49.Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done

:07:50. > :07:54.quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in

:07:55. > :07:57.frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,

:07:58. > :08:00.OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has

:08:01. > :08:04.already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with

:08:05. > :08:08.Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle

:08:09. > :08:13.for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality

:08:14. > :08:17.bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same

:08:18. > :08:20.time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge

:08:21. > :08:26.to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and

:08:27. > :08:32.Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it

:08:33. > :08:38.reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is

:08:39. > :08:41.over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is

:08:42. > :08:45.how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is

:08:46. > :08:48.not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a

:08:49. > :08:52.normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more

:08:53. > :08:58.mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible

:08:59. > :09:01.workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to

:09:02. > :09:06.call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she

:09:07. > :09:09.tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a

:09:10. > :09:13.second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the

:09:14. > :09:16.rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this

:09:17. > :09:21.week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to

:09:22. > :09:26.her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She

:09:27. > :09:30.expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for

:09:31. > :09:35.her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows

:09:36. > :09:41.66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off

:09:42. > :09:46.with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second

:09:47. > :09:49.referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined

:09:50. > :09:52.with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her

:09:53. > :09:56.calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,

:09:57. > :10:01.I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your

:10:02. > :10:05.desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a

:10:06. > :10:08.fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak

:10:09. > :10:14.opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most

:10:15. > :10:18.daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I

:10:19. > :10:21.think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an

:10:22. > :10:24.election. I don't think she has thought about how you would

:10:25. > :10:29.manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the

:10:30. > :10:35.energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning

:10:36. > :10:39.the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the

:10:40. > :10:43.small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.

:10:44. > :10:46.Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be

:10:47. > :10:51.difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of

:10:52. > :10:54.going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't

:10:55. > :10:59.and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which

:11:00. > :11:01.is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as

:11:02. > :11:05.commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but

:11:06. > :11:10.they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in

:11:11. > :11:12.unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because

:11:13. > :11:16.she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through

:11:17. > :11:19.Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an

:11:20. > :11:24.early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write

:11:25. > :11:29.a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's

:11:30. > :11:33.box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.

:11:34. > :11:36.The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may

:11:37. > :11:40.replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an

:11:41. > :11:44.election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself

:11:45. > :11:46.you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall

:11:47. > :11:47.see. So if Theresa May did go

:11:48. > :11:50.for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns

:11:51. > :12:01.and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we

:12:02. > :12:03.have just been talking about, executed one of the most

:12:04. > :12:07.embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a

:12:08. > :12:11.torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still

:12:12. > :12:16.so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an

:12:17. > :12:18.early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing

:12:19. > :12:22.ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that

:12:23. > :12:27.we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only

:12:28. > :12:33.challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative

:12:34. > :12:40.for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,

:12:41. > :12:43.would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't

:12:44. > :12:46.want this government to be in power so of course if there is an

:12:47. > :12:50.opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a

:12:51. > :12:55.better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course

:12:56. > :13:00.we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote

:13:01. > :13:04.in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an

:13:05. > :13:08.opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in

:13:09. > :13:12.government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with

:13:13. > :13:15.the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very

:13:16. > :13:19.seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but

:13:20. > :13:24.would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to

:13:25. > :13:26.be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to

:13:27. > :13:30.bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the

:13:31. > :13:35.British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together

:13:36. > :13:39.Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a

:13:40. > :13:44.General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance

:13:45. > :13:48.of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an

:13:49. > :13:51.early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?

:13:52. > :13:56.It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to

:13:57. > :13:59.dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories

:14:00. > :14:03.in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that

:14:04. > :14:06.opportunity to put that case to the British people.

:14:07. > :14:14.Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all

:14:15. > :14:17.but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?

:14:18. > :14:20.How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of

:14:21. > :14:24.money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the

:14:25. > :14:30.Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it

:14:31. > :14:37.inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to

:14:38. > :14:43.build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We

:14:44. > :14:47.have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are

:14:48. > :14:50.taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian

:14:51. > :14:54.Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the

:14:55. > :14:58.Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the

:14:59. > :15:01.support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the

:15:02. > :15:06.electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready

:15:07. > :15:10.for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got

:15:11. > :15:15.your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the

:15:16. > :15:19.shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if

:15:20. > :15:22.there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these

:15:23. > :15:28.things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its

:15:29. > :15:32.annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates

:15:33. > :15:36.policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last

:15:37. > :15:40.Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a

:15:41. > :15:45.fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much

:15:46. > :15:49.extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going

:15:50. > :15:53.to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.

:15:54. > :15:58.I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We

:15:59. > :16:03.have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out

:16:04. > :16:07.Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there

:16:08. > :16:11.hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war

:16:12. > :16:16.footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,

:16:17. > :16:21.can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under

:16:22. > :16:27.a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.

:16:28. > :16:31.And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an

:16:32. > :16:35.election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th

:16:36. > :16:41.of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't

:16:42. > :16:45.having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy

:16:46. > :16:49.development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think

:16:50. > :16:53.you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll

:16:54. > :16:59.ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the

:17:00. > :17:02.Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in

:17:03. > :17:07.safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long

:17:08. > :17:12.does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the

:17:13. > :17:16.Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour

:17:17. > :17:19.Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party

:17:20. > :17:26.merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in

:17:27. > :17:31.case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be

:17:32. > :17:35.talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation

:17:36. > :17:39.about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually

:17:40. > :17:43.for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting

:17:44. > :17:47.with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the

:17:48. > :17:53.prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,

:17:54. > :17:57.given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its

:17:58. > :18:00.mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be

:18:01. > :18:06.about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17

:18:07. > :18:11.behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as

:18:12. > :18:14.an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you

:18:15. > :18:20.still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?

:18:21. > :18:27.These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was

:18:28. > :18:31.settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.

:18:32. > :18:36.Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it

:18:37. > :18:41.is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it

:18:42. > :18:46.is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will

:18:47. > :18:50.you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future

:18:51. > :18:59.looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,

:19:00. > :19:02.where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit

:19:03. > :19:05.cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make

:19:06. > :19:08.sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to

:19:09. > :19:11.fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to

:19:12. > :19:18.make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour

:19:19. > :19:23.returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.

:19:24. > :19:25.And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring

:19:26. > :19:28.conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.

:19:29. > :19:36.Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps

:19:37. > :19:42.Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In

:19:43. > :19:50.what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not

:19:51. > :19:56.saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim

:19:57. > :19:59.Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware

:20:00. > :20:06.what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was

:20:07. > :20:12.arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound

:20:13. > :20:17.supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as

:20:18. > :20:22.Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so

:20:23. > :20:26.ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,

:20:27. > :20:31.Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more

:20:32. > :20:35.isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach

:20:36. > :20:40.that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans

:20:41. > :20:49.to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,

:20:50. > :20:54.Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,

:20:55. > :20:58.nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In

:20:59. > :21:05.what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has

:21:06. > :21:10.interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote

:21:11. > :21:15.you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over

:21:16. > :21:19.the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have

:21:20. > :21:23.to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was

:21:24. > :21:28.in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not

:21:29. > :21:34.right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we

:21:35. > :21:40.have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald

:21:41. > :21:46.Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different

:21:47. > :21:52.view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not

:21:53. > :21:57.antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not

:21:58. > :22:01.aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the

:22:02. > :22:07.British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by

:22:08. > :22:15.choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing

:22:16. > :22:19.so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self

:22:20. > :22:23.harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the

:22:24. > :22:28.threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so

:22:29. > :22:33.ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view

:22:34. > :22:42.speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not

:22:43. > :22:46.challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs

:22:47. > :22:51.that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring

:22:52. > :22:56.conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long

:22:57. > :23:01.time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a

:23:02. > :23:06.realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards

:23:07. > :23:12.that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a

:23:13. > :23:16.realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want

:23:17. > :23:22.that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the

:23:23. > :23:26.recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People

:23:27. > :23:31.often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election

:23:32. > :23:35.we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we

:23:36. > :23:43.have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in

:23:44. > :23:50.Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way

:23:51. > :23:59.seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted

:24:00. > :24:02.for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling

:24:03. > :24:06.increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party

:24:07. > :24:09.because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable

:24:10. > :24:16.from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk

:24:17. > :24:20.on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite

:24:21. > :24:25.them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across

:24:26. > :24:29.parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster

:24:30. > :24:33.village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,

:24:34. > :24:37.inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people

:24:38. > :24:49.on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the

:24:50. > :24:54.ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence

:24:55. > :24:58.to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be

:24:59. > :25:07.thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we

:25:08. > :25:11.are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the

:25:12. > :25:15.referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated

:25:16. > :25:19.ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something

:25:20. > :25:23.unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can

:25:24. > :25:35.guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the

:25:36. > :25:40.British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work

:25:41. > :25:44.out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she

:25:45. > :25:50.will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new

:25:51. > :25:55.trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of

:25:56. > :25:59.that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there

:26:00. > :26:04.will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use

:26:05. > :26:11.this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling

:26:12. > :26:15.back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or

:26:16. > :26:20.thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were

:26:21. > :26:26.promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this

:26:27. > :26:31.glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the

:26:32. > :26:34.world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of

:26:35. > :26:38.years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to

:26:39. > :26:43.take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of

:26:44. > :26:51.quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always

:26:52. > :26:57.welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is

:26:58. > :27:00.certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you

:27:01. > :27:07.spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or

:27:08. > :27:14.spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper

:27:15. > :27:21.editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's

:27:22. > :27:27.feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law

:27:28. > :27:31.against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will

:27:32. > :27:38.again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also

:27:39. > :27:42.wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in

:27:43. > :27:48.the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his

:27:49. > :27:53.self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on

:27:54. > :27:57.a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you

:27:58. > :28:01.will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.

:28:02. > :28:04.Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been

:28:05. > :28:07.warning the health service needs more money to help it meet

:28:08. > :28:10.But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered

:28:11. > :28:12.no immediate relief, and today the head of

:28:13. > :28:13.the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds

:28:14. > :28:16.of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency

:28:17. > :28:18.care and planned operations, unless the Government

:28:19. > :28:26.Warnings over funding are not exactly new.

:28:27. > :28:28.Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,

:28:29. > :28:33.published his plan for the future of the health service.

:28:34. > :28:36.In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England

:28:37. > :28:39.would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.

:28:40. > :28:42.To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money

:28:43. > :28:45.from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,

:28:46. > :28:48.and that the health service could account for the rest by making

:28:49. > :28:56.The Government says it's given the health service more than what it

:28:57. > :28:58.asked for, and that NHS in England will have received

:28:59. > :29:03.That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair

:29:04. > :29:06.of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more

:29:07. > :29:09.like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget

:29:10. > :29:15.have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.

:29:16. > :29:18.Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished

:29:19. > :29:20.the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts

:29:21. > :29:23.from the Government, the NHS is likely to record

:29:24. > :29:28.Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A

:29:29. > :29:30.departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being

:29:31. > :29:38.This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care

:29:39. > :29:42.but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn

:29:43. > :29:45.that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked

:29:46. > :29:50.And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS

:29:51. > :29:56.Providers in England, Chris Hopson.

:29:57. > :30:03.Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra

:30:04. > :30:07.money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part

:30:08. > :30:11.of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a

:30:12. > :30:16.bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so

:30:17. > :30:19.on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18

:30:20. > :30:23.billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising

:30:24. > :30:27.more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that

:30:28. > :30:32.is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS

:30:33. > :30:36.knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are

:30:37. > :30:43.somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.

:30:44. > :30:51.Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22

:30:52. > :30:56.billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year

:30:57. > :31:01.and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25

:31:02. > :31:06.billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the

:31:07. > :31:10.2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to

:31:11. > :31:15.which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period

:31:16. > :31:19.and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen

:31:20. > :31:25.before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come

:31:26. > :31:29.onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some

:31:30. > :31:33.extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument

:31:34. > :31:38.about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this

:31:39. > :31:42.extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?

:31:43. > :31:47.Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward

:31:48. > :31:50.view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the

:31:51. > :31:54.centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms

:31:55. > :31:58.length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was

:31:59. > :32:02.consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that

:32:03. > :32:07.the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS

:32:08. > :32:11.where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every

:32:12. > :32:15.year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able

:32:16. > :32:21.to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding

:32:22. > :32:25.increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release

:32:26. > :32:30.we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would

:32:31. > :32:36.not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in

:32:37. > :32:39.other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts

:32:40. > :32:44.Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.

:32:45. > :32:51.Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.

:32:52. > :32:54.How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we

:32:55. > :32:58.estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you

:32:59. > :33:03.clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour

:33:04. > :33:08.A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and

:33:09. > :33:13.operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900

:33:14. > :33:17.million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you

:33:18. > :33:21.would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of

:33:22. > :33:25.those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion

:33:26. > :33:30.on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5

:33:31. > :33:33.billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is

:33:34. > :33:39.important we should make an important distinction about the NHS

:33:40. > :33:42.versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour

:33:43. > :33:46.government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return

:33:47. > :33:50.for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,

:33:51. > :33:55.the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery

:33:56. > :33:59.we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would

:34:00. > :34:03.want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for

:34:04. > :34:08.it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest

:34:09. > :34:12.financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going

:34:13. > :34:17.up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand

:34:18. > :34:22.go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I

:34:23. > :34:25.think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going

:34:26. > :34:30.to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I

:34:31. > :34:34.think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS

:34:35. > :34:38.as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have

:34:39. > :34:43.got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36

:34:44. > :34:48.office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to

:34:49. > :34:53.1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know

:34:54. > :34:58.in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the

:34:59. > :35:01.last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement

:35:02. > :35:09.gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25

:35:10. > :35:12.billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But

:35:13. > :35:15.having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where

:35:16. > :35:21.there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it

:35:22. > :35:25.for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its

:35:26. > :35:29.contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as

:35:30. > :35:34.efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for

:35:35. > :35:38.you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise

:35:39. > :35:42.those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would

:35:43. > :35:46.go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a

:35:47. > :35:49.deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the

:35:50. > :35:54.moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release

:35:55. > :36:06.land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts

:36:07. > :36:08.which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous

:36:09. > :36:10.organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.

:36:11. > :36:10.Have you raised that with the government?

:36:11. > :36:23.Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard

:36:24. > :36:28.somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big

:36:29. > :36:32.salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for

:36:33. > :36:35.the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more

:36:36. > :36:38.money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being

:36:39. > :36:43.properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And

:36:44. > :36:51.yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in

:36:52. > :36:53.a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I

:36:54. > :36:56.have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight

:36:57. > :36:59.in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,

:37:00. > :37:03.mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most

:37:04. > :37:07.complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to

:37:08. > :37:10.be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we

:37:11. > :37:14.should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid

:37:15. > :37:20.are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion

:37:21. > :37:27.a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There

:37:28. > :37:30.was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the

:37:31. > :37:34.problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need

:37:35. > :37:37.and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having

:37:38. > :37:42.to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem

:37:43. > :37:48.and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those

:37:49. > :37:52.amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas

:37:53. > :37:57.is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you

:37:58. > :38:00.could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,

:38:01. > :38:06.what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government

:38:07. > :38:11.has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing

:38:12. > :38:15.funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can

:38:16. > :38:20.I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the

:38:21. > :38:25.first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we

:38:26. > :38:30.can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work

:38:31. > :38:34.in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very

:38:35. > :38:37.important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the

:38:38. > :38:42.financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being

:38:43. > :38:45.asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of

:38:46. > :38:47.time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.

:38:48. > :38:49.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:50. > :38:52.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:53. > :39:05.Hello and an extremely warm welcome to your local part of the show.

:39:06. > :39:07.Just, of course, for the north-east and Cumbria.

:39:08. > :39:10.On the programme this week, as the Brexit bill is passed

:39:11. > :39:12.by Parliament, what does the future hold for Europeans

:39:13. > :39:17.We meet migrants from Poland and Romania who

:39:18. > :39:26.And in the studio talking about that and the rest

:39:27. > :39:27.of the news this week, the

:39:28. > :39:29.Labour MP for Washington and Sunderland West, Sharon Hodgson,

:39:30. > :39:31.and the businessman and mayoral candidate

:39:32. > :39:35.Let's start with Scotland and the chances of a

:39:36. > :39:38.Sharon Hodgson, the Prime Minister says no to a referendum, certainly

:39:39. > :39:40.at this point, is that position sustainable?

:39:41. > :39:43.Well, I think so, and she said no, not until we are the

:39:44. > :39:47.other side of Brexit and I think that is fair.

:39:48. > :39:49.It was only two and a half years ago when the Scottish

:39:50. > :39:51.people made their choice and the choice was

:39:52. > :39:57.to remain as part of the

:39:58. > :40:07.And that was what the referendum for the EU looming, and so the

:40:08. > :40:11.people did know the referendum for the EU was coming up, nobody knew

:40:12. > :40:14.how that would go and they made the choice that nevertheless

:40:15. > :40:16.they wanted to be part of a United Kingdom.

:40:17. > :40:18.You know, the people in Scotland have

:40:19. > :40:21.got enough going on with being like the rest of us and having to deal

:40:22. > :40:26.with the Brexit and it is divisive and not necessary.

:40:27. > :40:28.Jeremy Middleton, the problem is, isn't this what the

:40:29. > :40:32.They raised the prospects for a referendum and it looked like

:40:33. > :40:34.it has been frustrated by a Conservative Government.

:40:35. > :40:36.I think that is why they raised it, to try

:40:37. > :40:41.We voted as one country, the decision has been taken

:40:42. > :40:45.and I do not think you can take one individual part and say, we do not

:40:46. > :40:47.If you look across the north-east, sure,

:40:48. > :40:50.Newcastle voted to remain as well, Is it going to open up

:40:51. > :40:54.Why not let them have their say and find out?

:40:55. > :40:57.I think they will have a chance to have their say

:40:58. > :41:02.but they need to make a real choice and that will be after Brexit has

:41:03. > :41:08.become clear and the implications are and they will have to decide if

:41:09. > :41:12.I hope they stay but at least they will be

:41:13. > :41:14.making it on the basis of a

:41:15. > :41:16.clear understanding of what options are open to them.

:41:17. > :41:19.Well, how events unfold will be closely

:41:20. > :41:23.watched, of course,in border communities across Cumbria and the

:41:24. > :41:27.As I've been to Berwick to see what people there make the

:41:28. > :41:32.After all, it was less than three years ago.

:41:33. > :41:35.Apparently it once in a generation vote, except now, there is a push

:41:36. > :41:38.That means people in Berwick are again considering

:41:39. > :41:41.the potential impact of living on an international border.

:41:42. > :41:43.There is already division on the high street

:41:44. > :41:46.about the justification for another referendum.

:41:47. > :41:49.Where we are at, it is not a pretty good idea.

:41:50. > :41:51.I think it will cost far too much and I think

:41:52. > :41:54.I think it probably will happen, don't you?

:41:55. > :42:00.The latest survey is saying the Scottish people do not

:42:01. > :42:04.Nicola is just angling for more power.

:42:05. > :42:20.And then we'll be Tories for the rest of our life.

:42:21. > :42:23.But of course a new vote would churn up

:42:24. > :42:24.cross-border issues many thought were settled.

:42:25. > :42:31.Given another referendum, some of the arguments from 2014 will be

:42:32. > :42:33.The potential disruption to people's lives of

:42:34. > :42:37.having a border here, the possible economic competition

:42:38. > :42:40.But there would be another distinctive factor.

:42:41. > :42:43.The potential that this side of the border could have a very

:42:44. > :42:50.There is a chance Scotland's may end up either in the EU or the

:42:51. > :42:55.European free trade agreement, whereas you end up with the north of

:42:56. > :42:58.England out after Brexit and that poses real difficulties for

:42:59. > :43:01.policymakers in the North with free trade and things to do with tariffs,

:43:02. > :43:04.all of these kind of issues to do with immigration and workforces.

:43:05. > :43:05.But there is now a political battle over

:43:06. > :43:14.whether or when a referendum could take place.

:43:15. > :43:17.The PM has blocked it for now, quite right, say Conservatives

:43:18. > :43:20.I think it's only three years since the last

:43:21. > :43:23.It was a decisive decision by the Scottish people.

:43:24. > :43:25.I think that decision should be respected.

:43:26. > :43:28.We actually find the SNP have been on the losing side of two

:43:29. > :43:31.referendums and they just don't seem to be willing to accept the result.

:43:32. > :43:35.But the Carlisle MP's Scottish neighbour says

:43:36. > :43:37.Northern England has nothing to fear from Scottish independence.

:43:38. > :43:44.Our relationship is based on social ties, family ties, cultural ties,

:43:45. > :43:46.economic ties, we like football, we like a pint.

:43:47. > :43:50.We get on with each other. All of those things will be exactly

:43:51. > :43:55.But what the politicians in this place will try

:43:56. > :43:59.and kid us on about is our ties rely on their ties, which they have

:44:00. > :44:02.Of course this hasn't always been a peaceful

:44:03. > :44:08.border and now looks like

:44:09. > :44:10.tensions over its status could be growing again.

:44:11. > :44:12.Jeremy Middleton, let's deal with perhaps the potential

:44:13. > :44:14.impact on us of any referendum on independence.

:44:15. > :44:16.There is no independence would be bad for

:44:17. > :44:19.Instead the Scots will have to stand on their own

:44:20. > :44:23.moment many would argue they are much more

:44:24. > :44:24.powerful than the north of

:44:25. > :44:28.Well, it depends what sort of deal happens in the event

:44:29. > :44:35.The Scots have been subsidised by the rest of

:44:36. > :44:40.You have more than ?1000 per head of public expenditure

:44:41. > :44:43.spent on everybody in Scotland than is spent on the north-east of

:44:44. > :44:48.This has basically been bribery to encourage them to the

:44:49. > :44:53.I do not think it is fair now and it ought to be addressed anyway.

:44:54. > :44:55.In the event of independence then it will

:44:56. > :44:59.become absolutely essential the north-east and rest

:45:00. > :45:05.a fair deal, so we are dealt with on a regular and equal and fair

:45:06. > :45:08.Lots of Scots disagree that they get a great deal

:45:09. > :45:10.Definitely in terms of public expenditure

:45:11. > :45:14.From that point of view would have nothing to fear

:45:15. > :45:18.We have other things to worry about because then it is a question

:45:19. > :45:22.about how they spend the money they have.

:45:23. > :45:25.At the moment they use the economic power often to bribe and attract

:45:26. > :45:28.We know they will change the taxation plan.

:45:29. > :45:36.As an independent country they will be entitled to do

:45:37. > :45:38.that but we will see the potential they will use

:45:39. > :45:46.passengers away from the north of England.

:45:47. > :45:49.It will not affect things Heathrow and Manchester but

:45:50. > :45:52.It will have all sorts of potentially negative implications,

:45:53. > :45:56.The only people who will really enjoy it will

:45:57. > :45:58.be the media who will sell a lot of newspapers

:45:59. > :45:59.and the politicians will

:46:00. > :46:04.Sharon Hodgson, there is a lot of Labour supporters

:46:05. > :46:07.who might be sympathetic with one of our contributors in Berwick who

:46:08. > :46:12.might want to escape perpetual Conservative Government.

:46:13. > :46:15.Why is Labour so adamant it would be bad for Scotland

:46:16. > :46:18.Because we believe in the United Kingdom.

:46:19. > :46:27.I think Nicola Sturgeon, personally, should get on with

:46:28. > :46:33.She is First Minister, terrible cuts in

:46:34. > :46:40.As we said, it will not be bad news for

:46:41. > :46:45.A lot of people in the north-east will say let the

:46:46. > :46:48.Scots have their way, let them go and we can concentrate

:46:49. > :46:50.on developing our economy without them on the

:46:51. > :46:52.border with all these extra powers they have got.

:46:53. > :46:58.We have lots of Labour politicians in the

:46:59. > :47:01.north-east across councils and in Parliament and we do get on with

:47:02. > :47:06.running the north-east and taking the north-east's voice to London.

:47:07. > :47:11.Some might say Edinburgh is closer to the north-east than Scotland.

:47:12. > :47:18.big distraction to us in the north-east for what we need to do

:47:19. > :47:22.Will the Government not have a problem here?

:47:23. > :47:25.Because if we come together referendum, the

:47:26. > :47:28.argument about the Brexit that you do not need a hard border

:47:29. > :47:30.in Ireland and you can carry on free trade beyond

:47:31. > :47:32.borders, those are exactly the arguments for allowing Scottish

:47:33. > :47:36.Well, if they choose independence there will

:47:37. > :47:49.But I think and hope the Scots will realise it

:47:50. > :47:54.Would there need to be a hard border?

:47:55. > :47:58.I think there is a slight danger of a hard

:47:59. > :48:00.border because if you have different policies, for example, on

:48:01. > :48:02.immigration then how will you enforce those

:48:03. > :48:06.It is difficult enough in Northern Ireland but it is much

:48:07. > :48:07.harder in Scotland and certainly will have

:48:08. > :48:09.a bigger impact on us in the

:48:10. > :48:13.Sharon Hodgson, we heard the point about how we are represented, rather

:48:14. > :48:17.than tether the Scots to us, wouldn't it be nice to hear from

:48:18. > :48:21.Labour are some ideas about how we empower the North a lot more?

:48:22. > :48:22.We have heard virtually nothing so far.

:48:23. > :48:25.Other than opposition, and a scrapping of the mayor in the

:48:26. > :48:27.north-east that might have been a counterpoint.

:48:28. > :48:29.With regard to devolution, I mean, I think we have

:48:30. > :48:39.Obviously, Teesside are going to wait and get

:48:40. > :48:43.a mayor, we have to wait and see what happens in Manchester and the

:48:44. > :48:46.Wait and see, wait and see, and then we

:48:47. > :48:48.are falling further and further behind.

:48:49. > :48:51.The deal that was on the table, and I wasn't around the table

:48:52. > :48:54.but I understand it wasn't very good, I think that was the big

:48:55. > :48:57.sticking point and I think Manchester seems to be getting a

:48:58. > :49:00.If they make a great success of that then perhaps

:49:01. > :49:08.because I know he is obviously very interested.

:49:09. > :49:11.I think Manchester has shown the way.

:49:12. > :49:13.The most important thing is to start.

:49:14. > :49:15.There was an offer of money, power, it was a starting

:49:16. > :49:19.The real problem is lots of parts of the

:49:20. > :49:21.country are moving ahead and we are not.

:49:22. > :49:25.Now, Parliament this week gave Brexit the

:49:26. > :49:29.A big moment for the whole country and particularly for

:49:30. > :49:32.the tens of thousands of Europeans who came to the north-east and

:49:33. > :49:33.Cumbria to work and have now settled here.

:49:34. > :49:35.Labour says the Government should immediately guarantee their

:49:36. > :49:39.rights to remain in the UK but that does seem unlikely at this stage.

:49:40. > :49:41.So how are they dealing with the uncertainty?

:49:42. > :49:47.He grew up in Poznan, he lives in Darlington

:49:48. > :49:53.And despite the uncertainty EU nationals

:49:54. > :49:56.face at the moment this is not a somewhat extreme preparation

:49:57. > :49:58.in case he suddenly forced to return to

:49:59. > :50:10.I am training to achieve our, I can say target?

:50:11. > :50:13.We will row from my home town in Poland to London which takes

:50:14. > :50:15.for us approximately between 25 and 28 days.

:50:16. > :50:19.Despite the Government's refusal to guarantee EU citizens the right

:50:20. > :50:23.to stay in the UK, Christoph sees his 1600 mile adventure from Poland

:50:24. > :50:27.to England as a strictly one-way trip.

:50:28. > :50:30.When I reached London I felt somewhat like I have come back home.

:50:31. > :50:37.I do not feel any pressure at the moment, nobody has told me

:50:38. > :50:43.It will probably come as no surprise that Poland is the dominant

:50:44. > :50:45.EU nationality in our region, with an estimated 3000 Poles living

:50:46. > :50:49.Durham and Newcastle have got the greatest variety of EU

:50:50. > :50:51.communities and there are also a large number of

:50:52. > :50:53.Romanians living in the region in places

:50:54. > :50:54.like Sunderland, Stockton and

:50:55. > :51:01.And many of those Romanians on Teesside are deeply

:51:02. > :51:09.The anxiety and stress is quite a lot.

:51:10. > :51:12.The children, they can have questions

:51:13. > :51:23.Especially to those who were born here in the UK.

:51:24. > :51:25.This shop owner and his wife are expecting

:51:26. > :51:31.He says people in the community are already saving

:51:32. > :51:35.Now is the problem for me and my family

:51:36. > :51:37.because I am putting money in

:51:38. > :51:42.I come to live here to stay here and

:51:43. > :51:49.Pay the council, pay my tax, pay everything.

:51:50. > :52:01.And the people now are a little bit stressed and

:52:02. > :52:05.In Middlesbrough's Polish cafe the economic impact of Brexit

:52:06. > :52:07.is already causing concern, perhaps more so

:52:08. > :52:10.than any long-term worries about whether they will be allowed to stay

:52:11. > :52:12.Prices have really increased sense of this

:52:13. > :52:21.People feel, not only immigrants but also British people,

:52:22. > :52:24.also feel unsure and less comfortable because of money.

:52:25. > :52:27.It has been claimed the Government is using

:52:28. > :52:34.Margaret says she understands why the Government hasn't guaranteed

:52:35. > :52:37.It's just a little bit a part of the game, of

:52:38. > :52:43.They are trying to use people as a playing

:52:44. > :52:48.card, so if you give me something I give you something else.

:52:49. > :52:50.Christoph's house is in Darlington but the

:52:51. > :52:53.rowing machines at the Dolphin Centre may well feel like home for

:52:54. > :53:00.But he hopes the ideals of friendship and the

:53:01. > :53:02.qualities he is promoting through his epic adventure will be

:53:03. > :53:04.understood by politicians on both sides of the channel.

:53:05. > :53:07.Even if England will not be part of EU any

:53:08. > :53:11.It doesn't make any difference for us,

:53:12. > :53:13.we are still people, we are built the same,

:53:14. > :53:16.two legs, two hands, one head, body, still the same.

:53:17. > :53:17.Jeremy Middleton, you were a long-time

:53:18. > :53:21.How do you feel about the Government so far

:53:22. > :53:22.giving no guarantees that

:53:23. > :53:27.migrants, like we have seen there, about their future status in the UK?

:53:28. > :53:30.The Government has made it perfectly clear and quite rightly all EU

:53:31. > :53:33.citizens currently here are welcome to stay and they want them to stay.

:53:34. > :53:37.There is no doubt that is the Government's position.

:53:38. > :53:42.But the Government also has to bear in mind

:53:43. > :53:47.there are 1 million British citizens in the EU and that also needs to be

:53:48. > :53:59.The Government has made an offer that if we

:54:00. > :54:05.guarantee of the EU citizens stay, will they please guarantee of

:54:06. > :54:08.the British citizens can stay there and that offer has so far been

:54:09. > :54:10.rejected from the EU because negotiations have not opened.

:54:11. > :54:12.It is just incredible to think we would

:54:13. > :54:14.ever try and take migrants out of the country.

:54:15. > :54:16.I do not think for one second we will.

:54:17. > :54:20.We might as well just guarantee them now.

:54:21. > :54:22.Because we equally want to make sure the

:54:23. > :54:24.British citizens who are in Europe have a similar guarantee.

:54:25. > :54:29.That will be agreed, it should be agreed at that

:54:30. > :54:32.That will be agreed, it should be agreed and it

:54:33. > :54:35.I do not think we should encourage people who are EU

:54:36. > :54:37.citizens to really worry they will be ejected,

:54:38. > :54:43.Sharon Hodgson, as Margaret in the cafe understands,

:54:44. > :54:46.You do not just throw in your hand all

:54:47. > :54:48.at once, you've got to go through a process

:54:49. > :54:50.to secure the position of UK nationals in Europe.

:54:51. > :54:53.And I understand the point Jeremy is making, exactly that.

:54:54. > :54:54.There is 1.2 million British citizens in Europe

:54:55. > :54:57.and I think there is about 3.2 million European citizens here.

:54:58. > :54:59.But it does feel like they are a bargaining

:55:00. > :55:01.chip and that is why were so disappointed we did not get

:55:02. > :55:04.the amendment on to the Article 50 bill because that would have been,

:55:05. > :55:08.we say this is our red line, we are going to guarantee

:55:09. > :55:15.on the face of the bill you will be

:55:16. > :55:23.protected and can stay. Whether that would have undermined

:55:24. > :55:26.the bargaining that went on, As we have seen in

:55:27. > :55:31.that film people have settled here for ten years and had

:55:32. > :55:34.children and their children have For them to feel that

:55:35. > :55:37.uncertainty must A lot of your supporters might

:55:38. > :55:41.wonder why Labour is making such a priority in the process

:55:42. > :55:44.of Brexit on this particular issue, ahead of, perhaps, they might

:55:45. > :55:46.suggest, free trade and jobs. Again, these are

:55:47. > :55:52.people's lives and we equally have our 1.2

:55:53. > :55:54.million citizens in Europe What are we going to do

:55:55. > :56:00.with all these pensioners? How would bring them

:56:01. > :56:05.all home if they Jeremy, you're the

:56:06. > :56:09.businessman, have the Conservatives got it right,

:56:10. > :56:11.apparently prioritising immigration The impression is Theresa May would

:56:12. > :56:23.rather control immigration and be out the single market

:56:24. > :56:26.and Customs Uunion than be My understanding is

:56:27. > :56:34.the Government undoubtedly want to have control over immigration

:56:35. > :56:37.and that will have to be agreed one way or another and we

:56:38. > :56:39.will be in a position to do that

:56:40. > :56:44.when we're no longer the EU. Then we have to drive

:56:45. > :56:47.through the logic, which is both us and the EU's interests to have

:56:48. > :56:52.as much free trade as possible. When you bear in mind

:56:53. > :56:55.the effort the EU has gone to to form free trade

:56:56. > :56:58.agreements with lots of countries around the world, most recently

:56:59. > :57:01.Canada, it must be a logical point that we reach at some stage

:57:02. > :57:04.that we have a similar agreement with a big

:57:05. > :57:06.country like the... Even if we won't except their

:57:07. > :57:08.citizens coming freely? We undoubtedly will accept

:57:09. > :57:15.their citizens who are living here currently, and our citizens will be

:57:16. > :57:18.able to remain in Europe, as we've They will be some controls over

:57:19. > :57:21.immigration but they will be the same controls

:57:22. > :57:23.that will be applied to members of the EU

:57:24. > :57:25.as Sharon Hodgson, Labour

:57:26. > :57:28.still has not told us what it is going to do

:57:29. > :57:30.about immigration, and yet the voters

:57:31. > :57:32.in places like Sunderland were quite clear during the referendum

:57:33. > :57:34.they wanted controls. And I have had a huge

:57:35. > :57:39.listening exercise across my constituency, 500

:57:40. > :57:40.questionnaires back and two public meetings

:57:41. > :57:43.and in each one of those and the

:57:44. > :57:46.questionnaires it is clear people do want to see reform of immigration

:57:47. > :57:48.and some controls, no matter how they voted, and that was very

:57:49. > :57:51.interesting and we have heard that We will see what develops

:57:52. > :57:59.in terms of policy. There has been plenty going on this

:58:00. > :58:02.week, including a new blueprint for jobs,

:58:03. > :58:04.investment in Middlesbrough. Here is David with that

:58:05. > :58:11.and the rest of this week's Blyth Valley MP Ronnie Campbell will

:58:12. > :58:17.lead a Commons debate next week on the closure of the cosmetics

:58:18. > :58:23.and perfume factory. 400 staff are being told

:58:24. > :58:27.their jobs will go. The Government is to

:58:28. > :58:33.examine plans for a retail Park, 200 houses and a school

:58:34. > :58:38.on the County Hall site in Morpeth. Northumberland County Council cannot

:58:39. > :58:40.proceed with the plans until Middlesbrough Council has unveiled

:58:41. > :58:44.its plans for ?600 million of Mayor Dave Budd says housing

:58:45. > :58:52.and regeneration plans will see the Our own capital expenditure

:58:53. > :59:03.is just over ?70 million. We expect that to bring

:59:04. > :59:05.in well over ?600 million Of private

:59:06. > :59:07.investment and so will you add those to give

:59:08. > :59:08.this Finally, pregnant women

:59:09. > :59:11.are being discriminated against in the workplace and suffering

:59:12. > :59:13.unfair and unlawful treatment,

:59:14. > :59:14.according to How big a problem is

:59:15. > :59:25.it and what examples have you got of how

:59:26. > :59:27.it is You would not think so in this

:59:28. > :59:36.day and age, 100 years after women get the vote,

:59:37. > :59:39.but 54000 women last year alone lost their jobs through feeling

:59:40. > :59:41.they were forced out That is one in nine

:59:42. > :59:44.women in the workforce. If that was in Parliament

:59:45. > :59:46.that would be And as I said, 21 of my fellow women

:59:47. > :59:50.MPs being forced out, we would be on the floor

:59:51. > :59:53.of the house raising merry hell. If it is not good

:59:54. > :59:55.enough in our workplace it is not good enough then

:59:56. > :59:57.anybody's workplace. You know, the equality select

:59:58. > :00:00.committee did a very good report, far and wide, select

:00:01. > :00:03.committee all-party report, not political, presented

:00:04. > :00:05.it to the Government you know, gave some warm words

:00:06. > :00:13.out in January saying they would look at it,

:00:14. > :00:14.but they haven't actually came up with any

:00:15. > :00:17.action to do anything about it. I am in a dodgy position

:00:18. > :00:21.here because I am a man and I I would never defend

:00:22. > :00:24.discrimination in any way or putting stress

:00:25. > :00:26.on pregnant women but can you have

:00:27. > :00:30.an iota of sympathy for a small employer who has to deal with people

:00:31. > :00:39.going on maternity leave etc and also requests for flexible

:00:40. > :00:42.working when it is very hard on With small employers,

:00:43. > :00:45.with all employers, but these things can be planned

:00:46. > :00:48.for and you do have time while the employee is pregnant and also this

:00:49. > :00:52.is why we have to have a huge cultural change because it always

:00:53. > :00:55.falls on the woman and in society when we get more parental leave

:00:56. > :00:58.and sharing of responsibility is the whole culture of women

:00:59. > :01:04.being pregnant will take on a whole different slant and that will not be

:01:05. > :01:06.seen, this person... It will not just be

:01:07. > :01:10.about the negatives, it will be about the quality that woman has

:01:11. > :01:14.as an employee that you have already The cost to employers

:01:15. > :01:18.and business is I just want to ask

:01:19. > :01:23.Jeremy Middleton, does this happen in your

:01:24. > :01:30.experience in business? It certainly happens that you have

:01:31. > :01:33.to deal with people who become pregnant and,

:01:34. > :01:35.yes, it is a disruption, It would be a waste,

:01:36. > :01:39.as Sharon pointed out, if The Government has said,

:01:40. > :01:42.my understanding is, there should be zero tolerance of discrimination

:01:43. > :01:45.against people was pregnant and I agree, even though it

:01:46. > :01:46.can cause disruption. We'll have to leave it

:01:47. > :01:48.there for this week. For now, back to Andrew

:01:49. > :01:53.for the rest of the show. you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back

:01:54. > :02:03.to you. So, can George Osborne stay

:02:04. > :02:05.on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force

:02:06. > :02:09.a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas

:02:10. > :02:23.and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all?

:02:24. > :02:29.They are all questions for the Week Ahead to.

:02:30. > :02:33.Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it

:02:34. > :02:37.was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's

:02:38. > :02:44.Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May

:02:45. > :02:49.on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week.

:02:50. > :02:52.But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP

:02:53. > :02:54.for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001,

:02:55. > :02:57.Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of

:02:58. > :03:03.While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock,

:03:04. > :03:06.an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him

:03:07. > :03:11.Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow

:03:12. > :03:14.at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank,

:03:15. > :03:21.And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau,

:03:22. > :03:27.he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking

:03:28. > :03:32.around ?750,000 since last summer.

:03:33. > :03:41.So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem,

:03:42. > :03:45.though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow

:03:46. > :03:50.MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that

:03:51. > :03:55.kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy

:03:56. > :03:59.about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting

:04:00. > :04:03.appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre

:04:04. > :04:07.right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been

:04:08. > :04:13.on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they

:04:14. > :04:17.are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere.

:04:18. > :04:20.So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to

:04:21. > :04:27.condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are

:04:28. > :04:31.all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the

:04:32. > :04:36.degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard

:04:37. > :04:41.was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it

:04:42. > :04:44.was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be

:04:45. > :04:50.overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper.

:04:51. > :04:55.But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms

:04:56. > :05:01.have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who

:05:02. > :05:05.used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on

:05:06. > :05:08.television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank

:05:09. > :05:14.account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper,

:05:15. > :05:19.Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to

:05:20. > :05:24.see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the

:05:25. > :05:27.Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David

:05:28. > :05:35.Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard.

:05:36. > :05:39.Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is

:05:40. > :05:42.sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I

:05:43. > :05:46.was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble

:05:47. > :05:51.journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am

:05:52. > :05:55.everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage

:05:56. > :05:59.everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land.

:06:00. > :06:04.What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption

:06:05. > :06:08.about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He

:06:09. > :06:11.thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of

:06:12. > :06:16.message does that send to people about how seriously people take the

:06:17. > :06:21.role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The

:06:22. > :06:26.Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the

:06:27. > :06:30.proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some

:06:31. > :06:34.kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback

:06:35. > :06:38.there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished

:06:39. > :06:43.yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne

:06:44. > :06:47.cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and

:06:48. > :06:52.tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see

:06:53. > :06:59.already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless!

:07:00. > :07:05.Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've

:07:06. > :07:08.never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not

:07:09. > :07:14.bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own

:07:15. > :07:18.future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be

:07:19. > :07:22.Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a

:07:23. > :07:25.new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an

:07:26. > :07:30.MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The

:07:31. > :07:37.Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to

:07:38. > :07:41.make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day

:07:42. > :07:45.and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The

:07:46. > :07:50.news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in

:07:51. > :07:56.your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not

:07:57. > :08:03.over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at.

:08:04. > :08:10.School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky

:08:11. > :08:15.one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this

:08:16. > :08:20.through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a

:08:21. > :08:25.small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way.

:08:26. > :08:30.Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not

:08:31. > :08:35.going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been

:08:36. > :08:39.on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether

:08:40. > :08:43.they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something

:08:44. > :08:48.possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you

:08:49. > :08:52.can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there

:08:53. > :08:56.are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go

:08:57. > :09:00.ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the

:09:01. > :09:05.country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in

:09:06. > :09:09.certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department,

:09:10. > :09:14.the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being

:09:15. > :09:18.mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate

:09:19. > :09:22.more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in

:09:23. > :09:26.the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on

:09:27. > :09:29.schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to

:09:30. > :09:35.be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands,

:09:36. > :09:39.NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip

:09:40. > :09:43.Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There

:09:44. > :09:49.was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested

:09:50. > :09:53.perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at

:09:54. > :09:56.passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when

:09:57. > :10:00.it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we

:10:01. > :10:06.study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and

:10:07. > :10:10.quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May

:10:11. > :10:14.is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it

:10:15. > :10:19.wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed

:10:20. > :10:23.Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us

:10:24. > :10:27.see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of

:10:28. > :10:31.argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday

:10:32. > :10:36.was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the

:10:37. > :10:39.speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in

:10:40. > :10:44.intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As

:10:45. > :10:48.you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more

:10:49. > :10:53.cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the

:10:54. > :10:56.industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain

:10:57. > :11:01.markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there

:11:02. > :11:06.comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

:11:07. > :11:11.They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face

:11:12. > :11:15.rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel

:11:16. > :11:22.bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two

:11:23. > :11:25.things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food

:11:26. > :11:29.bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she

:11:30. > :11:32.has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen

:11:33. > :11:36.to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue.

:11:37. > :11:40.They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk

:11:41. > :11:44.and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree

:11:45. > :11:57.with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on

:11:58. > :12:00.this and the principle of continually talking about

:12:01. > :12:03.interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on

:12:04. > :12:06.energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the

:12:07. > :12:08.world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are

:12:09. > :12:11.open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing

:12:12. > :12:14.this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem

:12:15. > :12:16.in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't

:12:17. > :12:19.operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith,

:12:20. > :12:23.the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you

:12:24. > :12:27.should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest

:12:28. > :12:32.explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months,

:12:33. > :12:35.this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the

:12:36. > :12:39.meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty

:12:40. > :12:45.government action on this for quite some time. For the just about

:12:46. > :12:49.managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated

:12:50. > :12:52.by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and

:12:53. > :12:57.centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by

:12:58. > :13:02.the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral

:13:03. > :13:05.because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming

:13:06. > :13:09.into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went

:13:10. > :13:13.very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there

:13:14. > :13:17.was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do

:13:18. > :13:22.to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing

:13:23. > :13:24.Street. We await to see the actions taken.

:13:25. > :13:32.On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics

:13:33. > :13:35.will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week.

:13:36. > :13:37.And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am.

:13:38. > :14:21.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:14:22. > :14:27.I've not given myself that time to sit down

:14:28. > :14:32.Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife