:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:44.The local election results made grim reading for Labour.
:00:45. > :00:48.With just a month to go until the general election,
:00:49. > :00:51.will promising to rule out tax rises for all but the well off help
:00:52. > :00:57.The Conservatives have their own announcement on mental health,
:00:58. > :00:59.as they strain every sinew to insist they don't think they've got
:01:00. > :01:07.But is there still really all to play for?
:01:08. > :01:11.And tonight we will find out who is the next
:01:12. > :01:14.President of France - Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen -
:01:15. > :01:17.after an unpredictable campaign that ended with a hack attack
:01:18. > :01:20.Here: a Tory earthquake hits politics in the North East
:01:21. > :01:22.and Cumbria - can Labour do anything before the General Election
:01:23. > :01:27.to stop swathes of their heartland turning blue?
:01:28. > :01:31.elections but we are looking at the potential impact in marginals next
:01:32. > :01:38.month. If Ukip support continues to evaporate...
:01:39. > :01:41.And joining me for all of that, three journalists ready
:01:42. > :01:44.to analyse the week's politics with all the forensic
:01:45. > :01:48.focus of Diane Abbott preparing for an interview,
:01:49. > :01:50.and all the relaxed, slogan-free banter of Theresa May
:01:51. > :01:56.It's Janan Ganesh, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.
:01:57. > :02:03.So, the Conservatives are promising, if re-elected, to change mental
:02:04. > :02:06.health laws in England and Wales to tackle discrimination,
:02:07. > :02:12.and they're promising 10,000 more staff working in NHS mental health
:02:13. > :02:14.treatment in England by 2020 - although how that's to be
:02:15. > :02:17.Here's Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt speaking
:02:18. > :02:25.There is a lot of new money going into it.
:02:26. > :02:28.In January, we said we were going to put an extra ?1 billion
:02:29. > :02:32.Does this come from other parts of the NHS, or is it
:02:33. > :02:35.No, it is new money going into the NHS
:02:36. > :02:42.It's not just of course money, it's having the people
:02:43. > :02:44.who deliver these jobs, which is why we need
:02:45. > :02:49.Well, we're joined now from Norwich by the Liberal Democrat health
:02:50. > :02:52.This weekend, they've launched their own health announcement,
:02:53. > :03:01.promising a 1% rise on every income tax band to fund the NHS.
:03:02. > :03:07.Do you welcome the Conservatives putting mental health onto the
:03:08. > :03:11.campaign agenda in the way that they have? I welcome it being on the
:03:12. > :03:16.campaign agenda but I do fear that the announcement is built on thin
:03:17. > :03:21.air. You raised the issue at the start about the 10,000 extra staff,
:03:22. > :03:25.and questions surrounding how it would be paid for. There is no
:03:26. > :03:32.additional money on what they have already announced for the NHS. We
:03:33. > :03:36.know it falls massively short on the expectation of the funding gap
:03:37. > :03:40.which, by 2020, is likely to be about 30 billion. That is not
:03:41. > :03:44.disputed now. Anyone outside of the government, wherever you are on the
:03:45. > :03:53.political spectrum, knows the money going in is simply not enough. So,
:03:54. > :03:59.rather like the claim that they would add 5000 GPs to the workforce
:04:00. > :04:03.by 2020, that is not on target. Latest figures show a fall in the
:04:04. > :04:07.number of GPs. They make these claims, but I'm afraid they are
:04:08. > :04:11.without substance, unless they are prepared to put money behind it.
:04:12. > :04:21.Your party's solution to the money problem is to put a 1% percentage
:04:22. > :04:27.point on all of the bands of income tax to raise more money 20-45. Is
:04:28. > :04:35.that unfair? Most pensioners who consume 40% of NHS spending, but
:04:36. > :04:39.over 65s only pay about 20% of income tax. Are you penalising the
:04:40. > :04:45.younger generations for the health care of an older generation? It is
:04:46. > :04:49.the first step in what we are describing as a 5-point recovery
:04:50. > :04:55.plan for the NHS and care system. So, for what is available to us now,
:04:56. > :04:59.it seems to be the fairest way of bringing in extra resources, income
:05:00. > :05:04.tax is progressive, and is based on your ability to pay for your average
:05:05. > :05:09.British worker. It would be ?3 per week which is the cost of less than
:05:10. > :05:14.two cups of coffee per week. In the longer run, we say that by the end
:05:15. > :05:21.of the next Parliament, we would be able to introduce a dedicated NHS
:05:22. > :05:26.and care tax. Based, probably, around a reformed national insurance
:05:27. > :05:31.system, so it becomes a dedicated NHS and care tax. Interestingly, the
:05:32. > :05:35.former permanent secretary of the Treasury, Nick MacPherson, said
:05:36. > :05:39.clearly that this idea merits further consideration which is the
:05:40. > :05:46.first time anyone for the Treasury has bought into the idea of this.
:05:47. > :05:49.Let me ask you this. You say it is a small amount of tax that people on
:05:50. > :05:53.average incomes will have to pay extra. We are talking about people
:05:54. > :06:00.who have seen no real increases to their income since 2007. They have
:06:01. > :06:05.been struggling to stand still in terms of their own pay, but you are
:06:06. > :06:09.going to add to their tax, and as I said earlier, most of the health
:06:10. > :06:15.care money will then go to pensioners whose incomes have risen
:06:16. > :06:19.by 15%. I'm interested in the fairness of this redistribution?
:06:20. > :06:23.Bearing in mind first of all, Andrew, that the raising of the tax
:06:24. > :06:29.threshold that the Liberal Democrats pushed through in the coalition
:06:30. > :06:35.increased the effective pay in your pocket for basic rate taxpayers by
:06:36. > :06:40.about ?1000. We are talking about a tiny fraction of that. I suppose
:06:41. > :06:44.that you do have to ask, all of us in this country need to ask
:06:45. > :06:48.ourselves this question... Are we prepared to pay, in terms of the
:06:49. > :06:53.average worker, about ?3 extra per week to give us a guarantee that
:06:54. > :06:59.when our loved ones need that care, in their hour of need, perhaps
:07:00. > :07:04.suspected cancer, that care will be available for them? I have heard two
:07:05. > :07:09.cases recently brought my attention. An elderly couple, the wife has a
:07:10. > :07:13.very bad hip. They could not allow the weight to continue. She was told
:07:14. > :07:18.that she would need to wait 26 weeks, she was in acute pain. They
:07:19. > :07:22.then deduct paying ?20,000 for private treatment to circumvent
:07:23. > :07:26.waiting time. They hated doing it, because they did not want to jump
:07:27. > :07:31.the queue. But that is what is increasingly happening. Sorry to
:07:32. > :07:38.interrupt, Norman Lamb comedy make very good points but we are short on
:07:39. > :07:41.time today. One final question, it looks like you might have the chance
:07:42. > :07:45.to do any of this, I'm told the best you can hope to do internally is to
:07:46. > :07:51.double the number of seats you have, which would only take you to 18. Do
:07:52. > :07:56.you think that promising to raise people's income tax, even those on
:07:57. > :08:00.average earnings, is a vote winner? I think the people in this country
:08:01. > :08:05.are crying out for politicians to be straight and tenet as it is. At the
:08:06. > :08:12.moment we heading towards a Conservative landslide... -- tell it
:08:13. > :08:17.as it is. But do we want a 1-party state? We are electing a government
:08:18. > :08:21.not only to deal with the crucial Brexit negotiations, but oversee the
:08:22. > :08:25.stewardship of the NHS and funding of our schools, all of these
:08:26. > :08:29.critical issues. We need an effective opposition and with the
:08:30. > :08:32.Labour Party having taken itself off stage, the Liberal Democrats need to
:08:33. > :08:34.provide an effective opposition. Norman Lamb, thank you for joining
:08:35. > :08:38.us this morning. Thank you. Labour and Tories are anxious
:08:39. > :08:42.to stress the general election result is not a foregone conclusion,
:08:43. > :08:46.whatever the polls say. Order you just heard Norman Lamb say
:08:47. > :08:48.there that he thought the Conservatives were heading for a
:08:49. > :08:51.landslide... But did Thursday's dramatic set
:08:52. > :08:53.of local election results in England, Scotland and Wales give
:08:54. > :08:57.us a better idea of how the country Here's Emma Vardy with
:08:58. > :09:00.a behind-the-scenes look at how Good morning, it's seven o'clock
:09:01. > :09:04.on Friday, May 5th... The dawn of another results day.
:09:05. > :09:09.Anticipation hung in the air. Early results from the local
:09:10. > :09:14.elections in England suggest there's been a substantial swing
:09:15. > :09:16.from Labour to the Conservatives. While the pros did their thing,
:09:17. > :09:20.I needed breakfast. Don't tell anyone, but I'm
:09:21. > :09:23.going to pinch a sausage. The overnight counts had delivered
:09:24. > :09:25.successes for the Tories. But with most councils
:09:26. > :09:26.only getting started, there was plenty of action
:09:27. > :09:32.still to come. It's not quite the night
:09:33. > :09:34.of Labour's nightmares. There's enough mixed news
:09:35. > :09:36.in Wales, for example - looks like they're about to hold
:09:37. > :09:40.Cardiff - that they'll try and put But in really simple terms,
:09:41. > :09:46.four weeks from a general election, the Tories are going forward
:09:47. > :09:49.and Labour are going backwards. How does it compare being
:09:50. > :09:54.in here to doing the telly? Huw, how do you prepare yourself
:09:55. > :10:00.for a long day of results, then? We're not even on air yet,
:10:01. > :10:06.as you can see, and already in Tory HQ this morning,
:10:07. > :10:09.there's a kind of, "Oh, I'm scared this will make people
:10:10. > :10:12.think the election's just I think leave it
:10:13. > :10:15.like that - perfect. I want the Laura look.
:10:16. > :10:18.This is really good, isn't it? Usually, we're in here
:10:19. > :10:22.for the Daily Politics. But it's been transformed
:10:23. > :10:27.for the Election Results programme. But hours went by without Ukip
:10:28. > :10:39.winning a single seat. The joke going around
:10:40. > :10:45.Lincolnshire County Council today from the Conservatives
:10:46. > :10:48.is that the Tories have eaten We will rebrand
:10:49. > :10:51.and come back strong. Morale, I think, is inevitably
:10:52. > :10:57.going to take a bit of a tumble. Particularly if Theresa May starts
:10:58. > :11:00.backsliding on Brexit. And then I think we will be
:11:01. > :11:02.totally reinvigorated. There are a lot of good people
:11:03. > :11:05.in Ukip and I wouldn't want to say anything unkind,
:11:06. > :11:08.but we all know it's over. Ukip press officer.
:11:09. > :11:12.Difficult job. Ukip weren't the only ones
:11:13. > :11:16.putting a brave face on it. Labour were experiencing
:11:17. > :11:19.their own disaster day too, losing hundreds of seats
:11:20. > :11:23.and seven councils. If the result is what these
:11:24. > :11:27.results appear to indicate, Can we have a quick word
:11:28. > :11:32.for the Sunday Politics? A quick question for Sunday Politics
:11:33. > :11:40.- how are you feeling? Downhearted or fired up for June?
:11:41. > :11:45.Fired up, absolutely fired up. He's fired up.
:11:46. > :11:47.We're going to go out there... We cannot go on with another
:11:48. > :11:49.five years of this. How's it been for you today?
:11:50. > :11:52.Tiring. It always is, but I love elections,
:11:53. > :11:55.I really enjoy them. Yes, you know, obviously we're
:11:56. > :11:59.disappointed at some of the results, it's been a mixed bag,
:12:00. > :12:02.but some opinion polls and commentators predicted we'd be
:12:03. > :12:07.wiped out - we haven't. As for the Lib Dems,
:12:08. > :12:09.not the resurgence they hoped for, After a dead heat in Northumberland,
:12:10. > :12:17.the control of a whole council came The section of England
:12:18. > :12:26.in which we had elections yesterday was the section of England
:12:27. > :12:30.that was most likely to vote Leave. When you go to sleep at night,
:12:31. > :12:33.do you just have election results The answer is if that's still
:12:34. > :12:39.happening, I don't get to sleep. There we go.
:12:40. > :12:41.Maybe practice some yoga... Thank you very much
:12:42. > :12:46.but I have one here. With the introduction
:12:47. > :12:49.of six regional mayors, Labour's Andy Burnham
:12:50. > :12:52.became Mr Manchester. But by the time Corbyn came
:12:53. > :12:55.to celebrate, the new mayor We want you to stay for a second
:12:56. > :13:01.because I've got some I used to present news,
:13:02. > :13:04.as you probably know. I used to present BBC
:13:05. > :13:06.Breakfast in the morning. The SNP had notable successes,
:13:07. > :13:09.ending 40 years of Labour What did you prefer -
:13:10. > :13:15.presenting or politics? And it certainly had been a hard day
:13:16. > :13:22.at the office for some. Ukip's foothold in local government
:13:23. > :13:26.was all but wiped out, leaving the Conservatives
:13:27. > :13:28.with their best local So another election results
:13:29. > :13:33.day draws to a close. But don't worry, we'll be doing it
:13:34. > :13:39.all again in five weeks' time. For now, though, that's your lot.
:13:40. > :13:51.Now let's look at some of Thursday's results in a little more detail,
:13:52. > :13:53.and what they might mean for the wider fortunes
:13:54. > :14:06.In England, there were elections for 34 councils.
:14:07. > :14:07.The Conservatives took control of ten of them,
:14:08. > :14:09.gaining over 300 seats, while Labour sustained
:14:10. > :14:14.While the Lib Dems lost 28 seats, Ukip came close to extinction,
:14:15. > :14:20.and can now boast of only one councillor in the whole of England.
:14:21. > :14:22.In Scotland, the big story was Labour losing
:14:23. > :14:25.a third of their seats, and control of three councils -
:14:26. > :14:27.while the Tories more than doubled their number of councillors.
:14:28. > :14:31.In Wales, both the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru made gains,
:14:32. > :14:37.There was some encouraging news for Jeremy Corbyn's party
:14:38. > :14:39.after Liverpool and Manchester both elected Labour mayors,
:14:40. > :14:46.although the Tories narrowly won the West Midlands mayoral race.
:14:47. > :14:49.We're joined now by who else but elections expert John Curtice.
:14:50. > :14:53.You saw him in Emma's film, he's now back in Glasgow.
:14:54. > :15:06.In broad terms, what do these local election results tell us about the
:15:07. > :15:11.general election result? First we have to remember what Theresa May
:15:12. > :15:15.wants to achieve in the general election is a landslide, and winning
:15:16. > :15:18.a landslide means you have to win big in terms of votes. The local
:15:19. > :15:22.election results certainly suggest Theresa May is well on course to win
:15:23. > :15:27.the general election, at least with four weeks to go, and of course
:15:28. > :15:30.people could change their minds. We all agree the Conservatives were
:15:31. > :15:35.double-digit figures ahead of Labour in these elections. However, whereas
:15:36. > :15:42.the opinion polls on average at the moment suggest there is a 17 point
:15:43. > :15:44.Conservative lead, and that definitely would deliver a
:15:45. > :15:47.landslide, it seems the local election figures, at least in
:15:48. > :15:51.England, are pointing to something close to an 11 point Conservative
:15:52. > :15:57.lead. That increase would not necessarily deliver a landslide that
:15:58. > :16:01.she wants. The truth is, the next four weeks are probably not about
:16:02. > :16:05.who wins this election unless something dramatic changes, but
:16:06. > :16:08.there is still a battle as to whether or not Theresa May achieves
:16:09. > :16:13.her objective of winning a landslide. She has to win big. The
:16:14. > :16:17.local elections as she is not sure to be there, and therefore she is
:16:18. > :16:21.going to have to campaign hard. Equally, while Labour did have most
:16:22. > :16:26.prospect of winning, they still at least at the goal of trying to keep
:16:27. > :16:30.the conservative majority relatively low, and therefore the Parliamentary
:16:31. > :16:34.Labour Party are alive and kicking. Interesting that the local election
:16:35. > :16:39.results don't produce a landslide if replicated on June 8th, but when I
:16:40. > :16:44.looked at when local elections had taken place a month before the
:16:45. > :16:49.general election, it was in 1983 and 1987. The Tories did well in both
:16:50. > :16:52.local elections in these years, but come the general election, they
:16:53. > :16:57.added five points to their share of the vote. No reason it should happen
:16:58. > :17:01.again, but if it did, that would take them into landslide territory.
:17:02. > :17:05.Absolutely right, if they do five points better than the local
:17:06. > :17:11.elections, they are in landslide territory. We have to remember, in
:17:12. > :17:16.1983, the Labour Party ran an inept campaign and their support ballet.
:17:17. > :17:22.In 1987, David Owen and David Steele could not keep to the same lines. --
:17:23. > :17:25.their support fell away. That underlines how well the opposition
:17:26. > :17:29.campaign in the next four weeks does potentially matter in terms of
:17:30. > :17:33.Theresa May's ability to achieve their objective. It is worth
:17:34. > :17:38.noticing in the opinion polls, two things have happened, first, Ukip
:17:39. > :17:41.voters, a significant slice going to the Conservatives, which helped to
:17:42. > :17:44.increase the Conservative leader in the bowels. But in the last week,
:17:45. > :17:50.the Labour vote seems to have recovered. -- in the polls. So the
:17:51. > :17:56.party is not that far short of what Ed Miliband got in 2015, so the
:17:57. > :18:00.Conservative leader is back down to 16 or 17, as we started. So we
:18:01. > :18:05.should not necessarily presume Labour are going to go backwards in
:18:06. > :18:11.the way they did in 1983. I want to finish by asking if there are deeper
:18:12. > :18:13.forces at work? Whether the referendum in this country is
:18:14. > :18:18.producing a realignment in British politics. The Scottish referendum
:18:19. > :18:22.has produced a kind of realignment in Scotland. And in a different way,
:18:23. > :18:30.the Brexit referendum has produced a realignment in England and Wales. Do
:18:31. > :18:33.you agree? You are quite right. Referendums are potentially
:18:34. > :18:36.disruptive in Scotland, they helped to ensure the constitutional
:18:37. > :18:41.question became the central issue, and the 45% who voted yes our been
:18:42. > :18:45.faithful to the SNP since. Although the SNP put in a relatively
:18:46. > :18:50.disappointing performance in Scotland on Thursday. Equally, south
:18:51. > :18:53.of the border, on the leave side, in the past 12 months and particularly
:18:54. > :18:58.the last few weeks, the Conservatives have corralled the
:18:59. > :19:03.leave vote, about two thirds of those who voted leave now say they
:19:04. > :19:07.will vote Conservative. Last summer, the figure was only 50%. On the
:19:08. > :19:17.remain side, the vote is still fragmented. The reason why Theresa
:19:18. > :19:21.May is in the strong position she is is not simply because the leave vote
:19:22. > :19:29.has been realigned, but the remain vote has not. Thank you for joining
:19:30. > :19:33.us. You can go through polls and wonder who is up and down, but I
:19:34. > :19:38.wonder whether the Scottish and Brexit referendums have produced
:19:39. > :19:45.fundamental changes. In Scotland, the real division now is between the
:19:46. > :19:50.centre-left Nationalist party and the centre-right Unionist party.
:19:51. > :19:54.That has had the consequence of squeezing out Labour in the
:19:55. > :19:59.argument, never mind the Greens and the Lib Dems. In London, England,
:20:00. > :20:05.Wales, the Brexit referendum seems to have produced a realignment of
:20:06. > :20:14.the right to the Tories' advantage, and some trouble for the Labour blue
:20:15. > :20:20.vote -- blue-collar vote. It works for the pro Brexit end of the
:20:21. > :20:24.spectrum but not the other half. In the last century, we had people like
:20:25. > :20:27.Roy Jenkins dreaming of and writing about the realignment of British
:20:28. > :20:31.politics as though it could be consciously engineered, and in fact
:20:32. > :20:36.what made it happen was just the calling of a referendum. It's not
:20:37. > :20:39.something you can put about as a politician, it flows from below,
:20:40. > :20:45.when the public begin to think of politics in terms of single issues,
:20:46. > :20:49.dominant issues, such as leaving the European Union. Rather than a broad
:20:50. > :20:54.spectrum designed by a political class. I wonder whether now Remain
:20:55. > :20:59.have it in them to coalesce behind a single party. It doesn't look like
:21:00. > :21:01.they can do it behind Labour. The Liberal Democrats are frankly too
:21:02. > :21:06.small in Parliament to constitute that kind of force. The closest
:21:07. > :21:11.thing to a powerful Remain party is the SNP which by definition has
:21:12. > :21:17.limited appeal south of the border. It is hard. The realignment. We
:21:18. > :21:21.don't know if it is permanent or how dramatic it will be, but there is
:21:22. > :21:25.some kind of realignment going on. At the moment, it seems to be a
:21:26. > :21:30.realignment that by and large is to the benefit of the Conservatives.
:21:31. > :21:33.Without a doubt, and that can be directly attributed to the
:21:34. > :21:36.disappearance of Ukip from the political landscape. I have been
:21:37. > :21:41.saying since the referendum that I thought Ukip was finished. They
:21:42. > :21:45.still seem to be staggering on under the illusion... Some people may have
:21:46. > :21:49.picked up on Nigel Farage this morning saying that Ukip still had a
:21:50. > :21:53.strong role to play until Brexit actually happens. But I think it's
:21:54. > :21:57.very, very hard to convince the voters of that, because they feel
:21:58. > :22:00.that, with the result of the referendum, that was Ukip's job
:22:01. > :22:05.done. And those votes are not going to delay the party -- to the Labour
:22:06. > :22:11.Party because of the flaws with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, they are
:22:12. > :22:15.shifting to the Tories. I agree. The key issue was the referendum. It has
:22:16. > :22:20.produced a fundamental change that few predicted at the time it was
:22:21. > :22:24.called. Most fundamental of all, it has brought about a unity in the
:22:25. > :22:27.Conservative Party. With some exceptions, but they are now off
:22:28. > :22:34.editing the Evening Standard and other things! This is now a party
:22:35. > :22:39.united around Brexit. Since 1992, the Tories have been split over
:22:40. > :22:42.Europe, at times fatally so. The referendum, in ways that David
:22:43. > :22:47.Cameron did not anticipate, has brought about a united front for
:22:48. > :22:51.this election. In a way, this is a sequel to the referendum, because
:22:52. > :22:54.it's about Brexit but we still don't know what form Brexit is going to
:22:55. > :23:01.take. By calling it early, Theresa May has in effect got another go at
:23:02. > :23:04.a kind of Brexit referendum without knowing what Brexit is, with a
:23:05. > :23:07.united Tory party behind her. We shall see if it is a blip or a
:23:08. > :23:10.long-term trend in British politics. Now let's turn to Labour's big
:23:11. > :23:12.campaign announcement today, and that was the promise of no
:23:13. > :23:15.income tax rise for those earning less than ?80,000 -
:23:16. > :23:18.which of course means those earning more than that could
:23:19. > :23:19.face an increase. Here's Shadow Chancellor John
:23:20. > :23:29.McDonell on the BBC earlier. What we are saying today, anyone
:23:30. > :23:34.earning below ?80,000, we will guarantee you will not have an
:23:35. > :23:37.increase in income tax, VAT or national insurance contributions.
:23:38. > :23:41.For those above 80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more
:23:42. > :23:46.to fund our public services. A modest bit. You will see it will be
:23:47. > :23:53.a modest increase. Talking about modest increases, so we can have a
:23:54. > :23:55.society which we believe everyone shares the benefits of.
:23:56. > :24:00.We're joined now by Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon, in Leeds.
:24:01. > :24:07.Mr McDonnell stressed that for those earning over 80,000, they would be
:24:08. > :24:11.paying more but it would be modest. He used the word modest 45 times.
:24:12. > :24:18.But there is only 1.2 million of them. -- 4-5 times. So that would
:24:19. > :24:25.not raise much money. This is about the key part of this tax policy for
:24:26. > :24:28.the many, not the few. We are saying that low earners and middle earners
:24:29. > :24:33.won't be paying more tax under a Labour government, which is not a
:24:34. > :24:36.policy the Conservatives have committed to yet. As John McDonnell
:24:37. > :24:43.also said in his interview earlier, if there is a tax rise on the top 5%
:24:44. > :24:48.of earners, earning over ?80,000, it would be a modest rise. I am trying
:24:49. > :24:55.to work out what that would mean in terms of money. If it is too modest,
:24:56. > :24:57.you don't raise much. What will happen is the Labour Party's
:24:58. > :25:03.manifesto, published in the next couple of weeks, wilfully set out
:25:04. > :25:13.and cost it. I can't make an announcement now. -- will fully set
:25:14. > :25:16.out and cost it. Moving on to the local elections, Mr Corbyn says he
:25:17. > :25:21.is closing the gap with the Tories. What evidence is there? John Curtis
:25:22. > :25:27.just said there was an 11% gap in the results, Labour 11% behind. The
:25:28. > :25:32.polls before that suggested Labour were anything up to 20% behind. Was
:25:33. > :25:38.it a great day for Labour? Certainly not. Is there a lot to do between
:25:39. > :25:43.now and June? Sure, but we are relishing every moment of that.
:25:44. > :25:47.Comparing equivalent elections in 2013, the Tories increased their
:25:48. > :25:57.share of the vote by 13%. You lost 2%. That's a net of 15%. In what way
:25:58. > :26:04.is that closing the gap? We have gone down to 11 points behind. Am I
:26:05. > :26:08.satisfied? Certainly not. Is Labour satisfied? Certainly not. A week is
:26:09. > :26:13.a long time in politics, 4-5 weeks is even longer. The local elections
:26:14. > :26:17.are over, the general election campaign is starting, and we want to
:26:18. > :26:22.put out there the policies that will improve the lives of low and middle
:26:23. > :26:27.income earners. And also many people looking to be well off as well. You
:26:28. > :26:33.lost 133 seats in Scotland. Are you closing the gap in Scotland? The
:26:34. > :26:36.journey back for Labour in Scotland, I always thought, wouldn't be an
:26:37. > :26:41.easy one. Since the council election results and Scotland that we are
:26:42. > :26:45.comparing this to, there has been an independence referendum and the
:26:46. > :26:49.terrible results for Labour in the 2015 general election. So it is a
:26:50. > :26:53.challenge, but one hundreds of thousands of Labour members are
:26:54. > :26:56.determined to meet. That is why we're talking about bread and butter
:26:57. > :27:04.policies to make people's lives better. These local elections took
:27:05. > :27:10.place midtown. Normally mid-term was the worst time for a government. --
:27:11. > :27:15.took place midterm. And the best for an opposition. That is a feature of
:27:16. > :27:20.British politics. So why did you lose 382 councillors in a midterm
:27:21. > :27:25.election? As Andy Burnham said when he gave his acceptance speech after
:27:26. > :27:31.his terrific first ballot result win in Manchester, it was an evening of
:27:32. > :27:35.mixed results for Labour. Generally bad, wasn't it? Why did you lose all
:27:36. > :27:40.of these councillors midterm? It is not a welcome result for Labour, I
:27:41. > :27:45.am not going to be deluded. But what I and the Labour Party are focused
:27:46. > :27:49.on is the next four weeks. And how we are going to put across policies
:27:50. > :27:55.like free school meals for primary school children, ?10 an hour minimum
:27:56. > :28:00.wage, the pledge not to increase tax for low and middle earners, 95% of
:28:01. > :28:04.earners in this country. And saving the NHS from privatisation and
:28:05. > :28:08.funding it properly. These are just some of the policies, including by
:28:09. > :28:13.the way a boost in carers' allowance, that will make the lives
:28:14. > :28:19.of people in Britain better off. Labour are for the many, not for the
:28:20. > :28:23.few. But people like from political parties aspiring to government is to
:28:24. > :28:27.be united and to be singing from the same song sheet among the leaders.
:28:28. > :28:31.You mentioned Andy Burnham. Why did he not join Mr Corbyn when Jeremy
:28:32. > :28:37.Corbyn went to the rally in Manchester on Friday to celebrate
:28:38. > :28:41.his victory? First of all, Andy Burnham did a radio interview
:28:42. > :28:44.straight after his great victory in which he said Jeremy Corbyn helped
:28:45. > :28:51.him to win votes in that election. Why didn't he turn up? As to the
:28:52. > :28:57.reason Andy Burnham wasn't there at the meeting Jeremy was doing in
:28:58. > :29:00.Manchester, it was because, I understand, Andy was booked into
:29:01. > :29:04.celebrate his victory with his family that night. I don't begrudge
:29:05. > :29:08.him that and hopefully you don't. The leader has made the effort to
:29:09. > :29:11.travel to Manchester to celebrate one of the few victories you enjoyed
:29:12. > :29:17.on Thursday, surely you would join the leader and celebrate together?
:29:18. > :29:21.Well, I don't regard, and I am sure you don't, Andy Burnham a nice time
:29:22. > :29:28.with his family... -- I don't begrudge. He made it clear Jeremy
:29:29. > :29:35.Corbyn assisted him. I can see you are not convinced yourself. I am
:29:36. > :29:40.convinced. The outgoing Labour leader in Derbyshire lost his seat
:29:41. > :29:45.on Thursday, you lost Derbyshire, which was a surprise in itself... He
:29:46. > :29:50.said that genuine party supporters said they were not voting Labour
:29:51. > :29:56.while you have Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Are you hearing that on the
:29:57. > :30:01.doorstep too? I have been knocking on hundreds of doors this week in my
:30:02. > :30:04.constituency and elsewhere. And of course, you never get every single
:30:05. > :30:10.voter thinking the leader of any political party is the greatest
:30:11. > :30:14.thing since sliced bread. But it's only on a minority of doorsteps that
:30:15. > :30:19.people are criticising the Labour leader. Most people aren't even
:30:20. > :30:24.talking about these questions. Most people are talking about Jeremy
:30:25. > :30:30.Corbyn's policies, free primary school meals, ?10 an hour minimum
:30:31. > :30:33.wage. Also policies such as paternity pay, maternity pay and
:30:34. > :30:37.sickness pay for the self-employed, that have been hard-pressed under
:30:38. > :30:40.this government. So I don't recognise that pitch of despondency,
:30:41. > :30:46.but I understand that in different areas, in local elections,
:30:47. > :30:50.perspectives are different. That was Derbyshire. The outgoing Labour
:30:51. > :30:53.leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said there was concern on
:30:54. > :30:58.the doorstep about whether Jeremy Corbyn was the right person to lead
:30:59. > :31:03.the Labour Party, and even Rotherham, loyal to Mr Corbyn, won
:31:04. > :31:09.the mail contest in Liverpool, he said that the Labour leader was more
:31:10. > :31:13.might on the doorstep. -- the mayor contest. Does that explain some of
:31:14. > :31:17.the performance on Thursday? I am confident that in the next four
:31:18. > :31:22.weeks, when we get into coverage on television, that people will see
:31:23. > :31:26.further the kind of open leadership Jeremy provides. In contrast to
:31:27. > :31:30.Theresa May's refusal to meet ordinary people. She came to my
:31:31. > :31:34.constituency and I don't think that a single person who lives here. And
:31:35. > :31:38.also she is ducking the chance to debate with Jeremy Corbyn on TV. She
:31:39. > :31:44.should do it and let the people decide. I don't know why she won't.
:31:45. > :31:49.Finally, the Labour mantra is that you are the party of the ordinary
:31:50. > :32:02.people, why is it the case that among what advertisers call C2s, D
:32:03. > :32:08.and E', how can you on the pulse of that social group, how can you do
:32:09. > :32:12.that? Our policy is to assist, protect and improve the living
:32:13. > :32:15.standards of people in those groups and our policy is to protect the
:32:16. > :32:20.living standards of the majority... They do not seem to be convinced? We
:32:21. > :32:22.have four weeks to convince them and I believe that we will. Thank you
:32:23. > :32:25.for coming onto the programme. But the wooden spoon from Thursday's
:32:26. > :32:30.elections undoubtedly went to Ukip. Four years ago the party
:32:31. > :32:33.won its best ever local government performance,
:32:34. > :32:35.but this time its support just Ukip's share of the vote
:32:36. > :32:38.plunging by as much as 18 points, most obviously
:32:39. > :32:42.benefiting the Conservatives. So is it all over for
:32:43. > :32:44.the self-styled people's army? Well we're joined now
:32:45. > :32:46.by the party's leader in the Welsh Assembly,
:32:47. > :32:57.Neil Hamilton, he's in Cardiff. Neil Hamilton, welcome. Ukip
:32:58. > :33:01.finished local elections gaining the same number of councillors as the
:33:02. > :33:07.Rubbish Party, one. That sums up your prospects, doesn't
:33:08. > :33:13.it? Rubbish? We have been around a long time and seemed that I'd go
:33:14. > :33:18.out, go in again, we will keep calm and carry on. We are in a phoney
:33:19. > :33:22.war, negotiations on Brexit have not started but what we know from
:33:23. > :33:25.Theresa May is that in seven years, as Home Secretary and Prime
:33:26. > :33:29.Minister, she has completely failed to control immigration which was one
:33:30. > :33:35.of the great driving forces behind the Brexit result. I'm not really
:33:36. > :33:38.looking for any great success in immigration from the Tories, and a
:33:39. > :33:43.lot of people who have previously voted for Ukip will be back in our
:33:44. > :33:48.part of the field again. They don't seem to care about that at the
:33:49. > :33:54.moment, your party lost 147 council seats. You gain one. It is time to
:33:55. > :33:58.shut up shop, isn't it? You are right, the voters are not focusing
:33:59. > :34:01.on other domestic issues at the moment. They have made up their
:34:02. > :34:07.minds going into these negotiations in Brussels, Theresa May, as Prime
:34:08. > :34:11.Minister, needs as much support as she can get. I think they are wrong
:34:12. > :34:17.in this respect, it would be better to have a cohort of Ukip MPs to back
:34:18. > :34:23.her up. She was greatly helped by the intervention of Mr Juncker last
:34:24. > :34:27.week as well, the stupidity in how the European Commission has tried to
:34:28. > :34:29.bully the British government, in those circumstances the British
:34:30. > :34:35.people will react in one way going the opposite way to what the
:34:36. > :34:39.Brussels establishment one. She has been fortunate as an acute tactician
:34:40. > :34:43.in having the election now. I struggle to see the way back for
:34:44. > :34:47.your party. You aren't a threat to the Tories in the south. Ukip voters
:34:48. > :34:52.are flocking to the Tories in the south. You don't threaten Labour in
:34:53. > :34:56.the north. It is the Tories who threaten Labour now in the north.
:34:57. > :35:01.There is no room to progress, is there? The reality will be is that
:35:02. > :35:06.once we are back on the domestic agenda again, and the Brexit
:35:07. > :35:11.negotiations are concluded, we will know what the outcome is. And the
:35:12. > :35:15.focus will be on bread and butter issues. We have all sorts of
:35:16. > :35:21.policies in our programme which other parties cannot match us on.
:35:22. > :35:25.The talk is putting up taxes to help the health service, we would scrap
:35:26. > :35:28.the foreign aid budget and put another ?8 billion in the health
:35:29. > :35:33.service, no other party says that. These policies would be popular with
:35:34. > :35:38.the ordinary working person. Is Paul Nuttall to blame on the meltdown of
:35:39. > :35:41.what happened, no matter who is leader? These are cosmic forces
:35:42. > :35:45.beyond the control of any individual at the moment, it is certainly not
:35:46. > :35:51.Paul Nuttall's .com he's been in the job for six months and in half that
:35:52. > :35:56.time he was fighting a by-election -- certainly not Paul Nuttall's
:35:57. > :35:59.fault. We have two become more professional than we have been
:36:00. > :36:05.recently. It has not been a brilliant year for Ukip one way or
:36:06. > :36:08.another, as you know, but there are prospects, in future, that are very
:36:09. > :36:13.rosy. I do not believe that the Tories will deliver on other
:36:14. > :36:17.promises that they are now making. The Welsh assembly elections are not
:36:18. > :36:21.until 2021, you are a member of that, but at that point you will not
:36:22. > :36:27.have any MEPs, because we will be out on the timetable. With this
:36:28. > :36:33.current showing he will have no end', you could be Ukip's most
:36:34. > :36:41.senior elected representative. That would be a turnout for the books! --
:36:42. > :36:44.no elected MPs. The Tories are not promoting the policies that I
:36:45. > :36:50.believe them. You will see that in the Ukip manifesto when it is
:36:51. > :37:00.shortly publish... Leaders talk mainly about the male genital
:37:01. > :37:05.mutilation and is -- female and burqas. No, when the manifesto
:37:06. > :37:12.launched, we have a lot of policies, I spoke moments ago about it, but
:37:13. > :37:16.also on foreign aid. Scrapping green taxes, to cut people's electricity
:37:17. > :37:25.bills by ?300 per year on average. There are a lot of popular policies
:37:26. > :37:29.that we have. We will hear more from that in the weeks to come.
:37:30. > :37:33.Paul Nuttall said "If the price of written leaving the year is a Tory
:37:34. > :37:39.advance after taking up this patriarch course, it is a price that
:37:40. > :37:43.Ukip is prepared to pay". That sounds like a surrender statement?
:37:44. > :37:48.It is a statement of fact, the main agenda is to get out of the EU and
:37:49. > :37:54.have full Brexit. That is why Ukip came into existence 20 years ago.
:37:55. > :37:58.When it is achieved, we go back to the normal political battle lines.
:37:59. > :38:02.Niall Hamilton in Cardiff, thank you very much for joining us.
:38:03. > :38:04.It's just gone 11.35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:05. > :38:07.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:38:08. > :38:18.Coming up here in 20 minutes - we'll be talking about the French
:38:19. > :38:20.Hello, and welcome to your local part of the show,
:38:21. > :38:26.It's fair to say Conservatives right across the North East and Cumbria
:38:27. > :38:29.this weekend will be eagerly anticipating June 8th,
:38:30. > :38:33.after winning the Tees Valley Mayoral contest and inflicting heavy
:38:34. > :38:38.With Ukip's vote plummeting and the Liberal Democrats failing
:38:39. > :38:42.to make much headway, can anything now stop
:38:43. > :38:45.With me and no doubt with views on that: Andy Macdonald,
:38:46. > :38:50.John Stevenson - standing for the Conservatives in Carlisle.
:38:51. > :38:53.Also with me: Newcastle East Liberal Democrat candidate Wendy Taylor.
:38:54. > :39:01.And Chris Gallacher who will be Ukip's candidate in Redcar..
:39:02. > :39:09.John Stevenson, I have had many a conservative on here and berated
:39:10. > :39:14.them on the lack of progress with local elections. I can't do that,
:39:15. > :39:17.what led to your success? We have had great success across the piste
:39:18. > :39:22.in north-east and Cumbria but we have two remember this is local
:39:23. > :39:24.elections, often about local issues and there are national issues
:39:25. > :39:28.playing with local elections but more importantly there are local
:39:29. > :39:32.things and we mustn't be complacent going to the local election --
:39:33. > :39:37.general election. Why are we doing well quit we are offering a cohesive
:39:38. > :39:42.national programme, a strong leader, Teresa made plays very well on the
:39:43. > :39:46.doorstep contrasting to Jeremy Corbyn and people are looking for
:39:47. > :39:56.competence and safety and that is coming from the Conservatives. Andy
:39:57. > :40:00.Macdonald, something the Leyburn results -- the Labour results he
:40:01. > :40:05.were mixed. We aren't shirking from this. We have now a fantastic
:40:06. > :40:08.opportunity to lay out a programme before the British people to have a
:40:09. > :40:13.different way to societally structure ourselves, we aren't about
:40:14. > :40:17.dealing with the privileged and dodgy deals and whoever it may well
:40:18. > :40:21.be to lie people's pockets but it's looking after everybody investing in
:40:22. > :40:26.the health service, making sure people go away from zero hours
:40:27. > :40:29.contracts. Those are not the signs of a strong external economy, that
:40:30. > :40:33.is the sign of a community and economy in deep trouble and we have
:40:34. > :40:36.to make sure we correct that and we have the opportunity to get the
:40:37. > :40:45.message across over the next four weeks. Wendy Taylor. This is the
:40:46. > :40:50.beginning of the Lib Dem revival? We are up in the poll nationally, up
:40:51. > :40:55.from the last election, our membership has rocketed, we have a
:40:56. > :40:58.number of members the highest we've ever had, we have topped the poll in
:40:59. > :41:04.a large number of seats we are trying to get in the local action,
:41:05. > :41:09.such as Bath and others, and we have to be reasonably optimistic. We
:41:10. > :41:16.didn't do some well inside areas, but that wasn't everywhere, for
:41:17. > :41:23.example, Cornwall we did very well. We have reasons to be optimistic.
:41:24. > :41:26.Chris Gallacher, Ukip are fading in their force in a region they were
:41:27. > :41:32.stronger in in 2014. I'm not disputing that but having said that
:41:33. > :41:39.it is not as bad as our friends in the Labour Party. They want the odd
:41:40. > :41:45.council seat. But we were difficult. It was a difficult issue for us,
:41:46. > :41:48.Theresa May bigging the day perfectly from her point of view,
:41:49. > :41:52.she knew about local elections, and knew the national agenda would be
:41:53. > :41:58.superimposed on local agenda, and that is what been shown. We had come
:41:59. > :42:01.in Hartlepool, a turnout of 210 Conservatives in a ward that
:42:02. > :42:03.normally has 40, and that is why we lost that seat.
:42:04. > :42:05.Well the most high-profile contest in the region
:42:06. > :42:08.was to elect the so-called Metro Mayor for the Tees Valley.
:42:09. > :42:10.Labour's Sue Jeffrey was outright favourite but Stockton
:42:11. > :42:12.councillor Ben Houchen won it for the Conservatives
:42:13. > :42:15.after a fiercely-fought campaign - albeit on a turn out of only
:42:16. > :42:19.It bodes well for the party's ambitions to win target
:42:20. > :42:21.seats like Darlington, Middlesbrough South and perhaps
:42:22. > :42:23.even more than that at the General Election.
:42:24. > :42:26.The scene in the Tees Valley is a political earthquake.
:42:27. > :42:29.We're seeing a massive trend towards conservatives that's been
:42:30. > :42:32.happening over recent years now and we're starting to turn
:42:33. > :42:34.the Tees Valley blue, and in the coming general election
:42:35. > :42:38.we will be focusing all of our efforts, we will be looking at five
:42:39. > :42:42.target seats within the Tees Valley, something unheard of in the past,
:42:43. > :42:47.and something that I personally will be fighting for and am
:42:48. > :42:58.Ben Houchen. Andy Macdonald, this particular result was a disaster for
:42:59. > :43:06.you. And everywhere you control four out of five councils. It goes to a
:43:07. > :43:09.conservative. Do remember, we topped the poll in three of the five
:43:10. > :43:12.boroughs at the first outing so that can't be in order. That said we
:43:13. > :43:16.still have those barriers under Labour controlled, so this chap has
:43:17. > :43:20.come along, don't know whether he wants the job in any event, but his
:43:21. > :43:25.promises are to buy an airport that isn't for sale and his second
:43:26. > :43:32.manifesto commitment is... You take on his points to the campaign. The
:43:33. > :43:35.fact is he one. It was a very low turnout and people aren't in love
:43:36. > :43:38.with the concept with Metro males. That is a good thing,
:43:39. > :43:42.notwithstanding the result. It is excellent we have powers devolved to
:43:43. > :43:50.the Tees Valley so we can push our wheat and we can do it. -- pull our
:43:51. > :43:54.weight. He is there for three years, he can occupy it for 36 months and
:43:55. > :43:58.then we will take it off him. Do you accept that on this result is that
:43:59. > :44:03.the more widely, politicians on the night am sure dead, places like
:44:04. > :44:08.Darlington and Ms Aruba south are likely to spread further than that.
:44:09. > :44:15.We are talking about Alex chinaman in Stockton Heath. -- Alex
:44:16. > :44:24.Cunningham. We have the opportunity to show the British people to do
:44:25. > :44:28.this better. You must be panicking in those seats? Candidates are
:44:29. > :44:30.infused by the wealth of resources and absolute enthusiasm for tens and
:44:31. > :44:35.tens of Labour supporters coming out. We have fantastic campaigning
:44:36. > :44:39.this is the opportunity of a this is the opportunity of a
:44:40. > :44:42.lifetime for the country to be in a better direction and it is now.
:44:43. > :44:47.Chris Gallacher, you trailed in a poor fourth of your party, you would
:44:48. > :44:51.have been pushing the Labour rather have been pushing the Labour rather
:44:52. > :45:01.than a Conservatives a few years ago? We put as much effort in as we
:45:02. > :45:05.want to. We didn't put a great deal in however, and not agreeing with
:45:06. > :45:10.the whole concept of it. Hence the low turnout. Nobody wanted this
:45:11. > :45:18.mayor. Why bother standing? The candidate was saying how the
:45:19. > :45:24.election should have got rid of the post, the referendum. That was his
:45:25. > :45:29.agenda, and that is what he went on. Everyone said, but we now have a
:45:30. > :45:35.Conservative, identifying the real problem of Tayside, albeit in a
:45:36. > :45:37.spurious way. The airport is fundamental to the growth of the
:45:38. > :45:41.that is the point that people voted that is the point that people voted
:45:42. > :45:46.for and that is what they are going to get. John Stevenson, Tees Valley
:45:47. > :45:50.mayoral election. A bit of a one-off, wasn't it but at Ben Hatch
:45:51. > :45:53.and's pledge on the airport may well have won it but it is impossible to
:45:54. > :46:00.read the ruins. First of all I am read the ruins. First of all I am
:46:01. > :46:03.delighted to hear of his support for the concept, I think it is a
:46:04. > :46:09.positive thing and a good thing. Our perspective. We were delighted to
:46:10. > :46:13.win there, demonstrates Conservatives can win anywhere in
:46:14. > :46:16.this country, we aren't the party of the north in the past, but that has
:46:17. > :46:22.changed. I want to see these mayors spread across the north of England,
:46:23. > :46:25.and importantly I want to see Conservatives everywhere. Where are
:46:26. > :46:31.you going to buy the airport from then? How's that going to come into
:46:32. > :46:44.Valley ownership? It is just a deceit. It is an interesting... It's
:46:45. > :46:49.not for sale. 21% turnout doesn't suggest public enthusiasm for this
:46:50. > :46:53.role, it? All politicians have been disappointed by the turnout, it was
:46:54. > :46:55.much lower than we've had hoped, but mayors have become a familiar part
:46:56. > :46:58.establishment and I think people establishment and I think people
:46:59. > :47:04.will support them, and in local government generally we do see 30,
:47:05. > :47:10.35, 40% turnout. We want higher and I fully except it is important we
:47:11. > :47:14.get higher turnout. Lib Dems were third, was there anything for you at
:47:15. > :47:22.competition where we are fighting to competition where we are fighting to
:47:23. > :47:28.close candidates, we were squeezed, but there is no reason why we should
:47:29. > :47:31.not get heart from the results, 12%. We know that Theresa May is on the
:47:32. > :47:35.verge of getting a large majority but we had to persuade Labour voters
:47:36. > :47:39.in Berwick and Redcar that we are the challenges, we have held the
:47:40. > :47:47.seat before, we know how to do it and... You are supposed to be part
:47:48. > :47:51.of a progressive alliance. You are taking votes away from Labour. We
:47:52. > :47:55.believe we can be an effective opposition which the Labour Party
:47:56. > :48:01.aren't at the moment. You are the best chance of getting Tories into
:48:02. > :48:05.power! That is exactly what happened in Tees Valley, you know it. The
:48:06. > :48:10.reason Tories have done well is because they have begun the
:48:11. > :48:13.blue-collar party. They have taken almost all the Ukip votes and that
:48:14. > :48:18.is obviously a worry for both Labour and the Liberal Democrats but think
:48:19. > :48:20.we can we make good progress, a chance of regaining Redcar, and
:48:21. > :48:29.Berwick, and that is what we are fighting to do. We have fought about
:48:30. > :48:32.this airport Pledge but will cancel leaders back Ben Houchen, there are
:48:33. > :48:40.five sitting alongside him on Labour, they could frustrate him. If
:48:41. > :48:44.they can tell me how he can get them. It is a hollow claim, you
:48:45. > :48:47.can't do it. We asked the question on the floor of the House of Commons
:48:48. > :48:53.and the secretary of state asked him is this Tory policy, and he said
:48:54. > :48:57.absolutely and utterly not and you have a Tory candidate deceiving the
:48:58. > :49:02.public and coming along and deceiving them public. I would put
:49:03. > :49:09.millions on it, it's never going to happen. Labour members on the board,
:49:10. > :49:10.it is a real holding place... We aren't going to discuss this
:49:11. > :49:12.airport. Well, let's take a closer look now
:49:13. > :49:15.at the local election results, and right across the region
:49:16. > :49:18.the Tories made big gains, even in the previously rock solid
:49:19. > :49:20.Labour territory of County Durham In Cumbria the Conservative took 12
:49:21. > :49:24.seats - including one held by their Copeland General Election
:49:25. > :49:26.candidate Gillian Troughton. While in Northumberland
:49:27. > :49:29.there was an 11 per cent swing from Labour to Conservative,
:49:30. > :49:31.with the Tories only just Conservatives said that reflected
:49:32. > :49:34.deep dissatisfaction among Labour I think there is a very definite
:49:35. > :49:40.message here which is very definitely they don't like
:49:41. > :49:42.Northumberland county council and the way it's run by
:49:43. > :49:44.the Labour Party, but I cannot stress enough Jeremy
:49:45. > :49:50.Corbyn is toxic on the doorstep. There was some relief for Labour
:49:51. > :49:52.in a strong performance in North Tyneside where the mayor
:49:53. > :49:55.Norma Redfearn was re-elected and increased her majority
:49:56. > :50:01.with more than half the vote. But the scale of the losses
:50:02. > :50:04.across the region - just four weeks before
:50:05. > :50:06.the General Election - Those loyal to Jeremy Corbyn blamed
:50:07. > :50:10.party divisions and a failure by MPs I think the Labour Party's been
:50:11. > :50:15.split for a while now and that's been the trouble,
:50:16. > :50:17.and people don't like to and I think MPs in Westminster have
:50:18. > :50:22.got a lot to answer for as well. Because they've never chip backed
:50:23. > :50:24.Jeremy Corbyn, they should have backed him, if they had have backed
:50:25. > :50:28.him and the ten point plan he had, it would have been
:50:29. > :50:32.a different results today. Well Labour disappointment
:50:33. > :50:34.was matched by Ukip and the Liberal Democrats with both
:50:35. > :50:36.parties failing to make The Lib Dems lost seats
:50:37. > :50:39.in Northumberland - while Ukip in Cumbria denied
:50:40. > :50:42.the party was in a state I think this has been a poor turnout
:50:43. > :50:45.which hasn't helped. I think with the general
:50:46. > :50:47.election close on the heels of it is well means that
:50:48. > :50:50.people are voting tactically, I think, really, so I think there's
:50:51. > :50:53.still lots to play for in the general election and we just
:50:54. > :50:56.going to have to put everything into that and just go
:50:57. > :51:10.for it, really. Andy Macdonald, let's talk about
:51:11. > :51:14.Durham for a minute. There was no pledge made about airports there.
:51:15. > :51:19.Solid Labour seats, solid Labour areas which were lost.
:51:20. > :51:28.Chester-le-Street, Sedgefield Stephen, what is happening. There
:51:29. > :51:34.was with something to play for and the resource could be a difference
:51:35. > :51:38.between local and general elections. We have a leader he vilified
:51:39. > :51:45.constantly and when a man comes along who wants to treat people like
:51:46. > :51:50.they should be treated, he has been vilified. He has been vilified by
:51:51. > :51:53.members of your own party as well. 100 cent of our candidates should be
:51:54. > :52:01.behind the programme that we will set out. We are not a... We aren't a
:52:02. > :52:07.presidential system but a parliamentary democracy. A lot of
:52:08. > :52:10.those seats it could have been anyone but Labour, it was the
:52:11. > :52:17.independence, the north-east party, the Liberal Democrats... Anyone but
:52:18. > :52:25.Labour, you are reading from Liberal Democrat leaflets. We have to see
:52:26. > :52:28.Norma Redfearn returned as mayor. We have great successes in Manchester
:52:29. > :52:31.and liveable across the north of England and Wales was not the
:52:32. > :52:38.cataclysmic think that many expected apparently. Wendy Taylor,
:52:39. > :52:42.Northumberland, your party lost eight councils including in the
:52:43. > :52:48.Berwick area you say you are targeting. They are very much local
:52:49. > :52:52.issues. The position in county hall is quite difficult and we did well
:52:53. > :52:57.in Durham, we gained five seats in Durham, on all the parish council
:52:58. > :53:07.seat in Durham, the results were neutral across the area. Even in
:53:08. > :53:11.targeted seats. We are the only party to say that if you want to
:53:12. > :53:14.have better services we are going to have to pay more tax. We are looking
:53:15. > :53:21.at other things from Brett said, and I think in this election and others
:53:22. > :53:27.have been focusing only on that. Tim Farron has been not really talking
:53:28. > :53:31.about it, you think that will persuade enough people to come over
:53:32. > :53:37.to you? I think it is really early days, and thank that our message has
:53:38. > :53:41.been built on. What we have to stop is the landslide victory for the
:53:42. > :53:46.Tories. Theresia Mae is acting as though she wants a coronation rather
:53:47. > :53:49.than election, not speaking to the public, invited people only at
:53:50. > :53:54.meetings, refusing to do a TV debate. We have to say that the
:53:55. > :53:59.landslide for the Tories will not be the right thing. We have excellent
:54:00. > :54:05.policies on health, climate change, things that should be very popular
:54:06. > :54:11.at a election. No councils the is at the local elections. Label are
:54:12. > :54:14.hanging on in Hartlepool. Is it the beginning of the end? Your chairman
:54:15. > :54:17.has as they do the Conservatives, and probably Ukip should just do
:54:18. > :54:23.that. The media have been writing the bedroom for Ukip since the
:54:24. > :54:28.referendum. We are still here, and people need to remember that we are
:54:29. > :54:33.the party that are 100% behind exit, we brought it on to the table, we
:54:34. > :54:41.forced the issue and we won the day. That cuts no ice at the moment. This
:54:42. > :54:46.is rapidly becoming a Brexit referendum against things to Theresa
:54:47. > :54:52.May. The agenda is being pushed and policy has been buried under Brexit.
:54:53. > :54:58.But that is what you wanted? That is the point, she doesn't want to do
:54:59. > :55:06.that, but it is a conversion of all parties right now who were pro the
:55:07. > :55:11.EU, and there was only one party who fought for that in the streets. Can
:55:12. > :55:20.you win seats in the north east in the parliamentary election? Yes.
:55:21. > :55:28.Where? Redcar. Which is where you're standing? Yes. To conservatives. In
:55:29. > :55:37.Cumbria you didn't really gain anywhere. We didn't expect to do. I
:55:38. > :55:44.think we are doing well, well placed for the 8th of June, I have always
:55:45. > :55:47.represented a marginal seat and I've write it in that way and always
:55:48. > :55:48.continue to do so. I genuinely think that the people of the
:55:49. > :55:55.receptive to us and our message. Is receptive to us and our message. Is
:55:56. > :56:03.your party now looking seriously at the north? Previously they had not
:56:04. > :56:05.put much effort in there. We are going to try to fight all seats,
:56:06. > :56:09.candidates everywhere, and put candidates everywhere, and put
:56:10. > :56:12.resources into places where we think the best possibilities are. Cumbria
:56:13. > :56:17.is always sifting towards the Conservatives, it did in 2010, we
:56:18. > :56:20.want Copeland recently, so we have the chance to take the fight to
:56:21. > :56:27.Labour, but we aren't complacent and we had persuade people. Sedgefield.
:56:28. > :56:38.Tony Blair's seat. Are you targeting that? I am concentrating on Cumbria.
:56:39. > :56:42.Seats of a 6000, even 10,000 majority of a vulnerable? You would
:56:43. > :56:47.have to ask Labour. We want to maximise the boat ride across the
:56:48. > :56:54.country, we have a strong leader and this country is wedged it for
:56:55. > :56:58.Conservative rule. With Sedgefield at risk, Harry had meetings since
:56:59. > :57:01.Friday about how to respond to this in the regional Labour Party? We
:57:02. > :57:05.fight tooth and sell for every single vote in every constituency.
:57:06. > :57:12.We are a national party, and not in the business of saying that we are
:57:13. > :57:17.targeting places. You know full well that more resources go into likely
:57:18. > :57:20.seats. We are going to fight for every seat in the north of England.
:57:21. > :57:23.There is a strong candidate in each and every one of them and we are
:57:24. > :57:29.going for every vote, and to think otherwise, is ridiculous was up the
:57:30. > :57:33.British public will decide, we went to sit and say which seats are going
:57:34. > :57:38.which way can we have an election and it is therefore people to do
:57:39. > :57:43.that. They are now the third party in Scotland. This is a fundamental
:57:44. > :57:48.problem. You said you are a national party and I'm not convinced. We are
:57:49. > :58:00.660,000 people in our party, the biggest political union. We are the
:58:01. > :58:03.biggest movement in Europe. I have spoken to Labour candidates, you
:58:04. > :58:10.have two, some campaigning on the basis that say, look, forgets Jeremy
:58:11. > :58:15.Corbyn, he's not and we promised because they know that's the only
:58:16. > :58:19.way they can hope to win. We aren't absolutely not going to give in to
:58:20. > :58:26.the vilification and condemnation and personal abuse of a single man.
:58:27. > :58:34.A single nasty word has never been said by that man, a man of integrity
:58:35. > :58:37.and deep principle. Yours BOOING Policies are going to be laid
:58:38. > :58:48.cleared for the north, and they will be reminded of the values of this
:58:49. > :58:51.man. You know that there are candidates who say that look at my
:58:52. > :58:57.local record as an MP, not about the national policies. Why would they
:58:58. > :59:03.not stand proudly behind their record as an excellent MP? Of course
:59:04. > :59:07.they will based on that. This is what a Labour government will
:59:08. > :59:11.deliver to our country, investing in education... I know he wants to move
:59:12. > :59:16.on but you never talk about the policies of education, health,
:59:17. > :59:21.prosperity, zero hours contracts, these are the things that the Labour
:59:22. > :59:27.Party will champion. Chris Gallacher, we still have no idea who
:59:28. > :59:30.your candidate is, your top target, no list of candidates from any other
:59:31. > :59:34.seats in a URL is only Redcar, the regional chairman goes to the
:59:35. > :59:40.Tories, it is chaos. I don't think so. We have 24 seats already
:59:41. > :59:45.nominated with candidates not 29. That's pretty good. Hartlepool is
:59:46. > :59:52.your top seat, and as far as I can see it as a round about selection. I
:59:53. > :59:57.am talking about tomorrow. I thought it was Wednesday. Given Thursday
:59:58. > :00:01.wasn't great, what will spark a Liberal Democrat revival? It will be
:00:02. > :00:07.our policies, and we are the policy that is going to be the effective
:00:08. > :00:11.opposition. We certainly need that, the Brexit negotiations are going
:00:12. > :00:16.well we are told we have a strong leader, but so was Margaret Thatcher
:00:17. > :00:24.and look what she did to the north. How will you re-wind power? We
:00:25. > :00:27.concentrate on 's domestic policies and how we can actually improve
:00:28. > :00:32.daily lives. We need to look at what the Tories are doing, delivering
:00:33. > :00:39.their tax breaks for their friends and the rich. It is in their DNA and
:00:40. > :00:45.they are not about working people. Is this a strong and stable
:00:46. > :00:53.government? I think it is the case we have a strong leader and not a
:00:54. > :00:57.toxic person. This is standard story nonsense. We have to finish.
:00:58. > :00:59.And that's it from us after a remarkable week in politics.
:01:00. > :01:02.If nothing else we've learned what a "straw poll" is!
:01:03. > :01:04.Here's the moment the Conservatives were denied an outright
:01:05. > :01:06.majority in Northumberland - by the choosing of straws -
:01:07. > :01:08.obtained from the canteen at Hexham leisure centre.
:01:09. > :01:10.I did it! Yay!
:01:11. > :01:12.We're back same time, same place next Sunday.
:01:13. > :01:15.housing associations and investment, but we have run out of time, thank
:01:16. > :01:30.you. Andrew. Four weeks to go until polling day
:01:31. > :01:33.on the 8th of June, what will the party strategies be for the
:01:34. > :01:40.remaining four weeks? Let's begin with the Conservatives. Do they just
:01:41. > :01:44.try to continue to play it safe for four weeks? Yes, with this important
:01:45. > :01:48.qualification. Theresa May Corp this election to get her own personal
:01:49. > :01:52.mandate partly, partly because she thought she would win big but to get
:01:53. > :01:58.her own personal mandate. Therefore, she needs to define it. In her own
:01:59. > :02:02.interests and to do with accountability to the country. So
:02:03. > :02:07.clearly, they will not take risks when they are so far ahead in the
:02:08. > :02:09.polls. What they do say in the manifesto matters in
:02:10. > :02:16.terms of the space that she has in the coming years to define her
:02:17. > :02:21.leadership against David Cameron 's. She is a free figure, partly on the
:02:22. > :02:31.basis of what she says as to how big she wins. They cannot just play it
:02:32. > :02:36.safe and repeat their mantra of strong and stable leadership, if she
:02:37. > :02:41.is going to claim her own mandate, they need the top policy? Yes, and
:02:42. > :02:44.what is unusual about this is that the manifesto matters far more
:02:45. > :02:47.because of what they need to do with it afterwards, than in terms of
:02:48. > :02:53.whether it is going to win anybody over now. Clearly, the strategy is
:02:54. > :02:57.yes, we do have two layout out a few things, there are interesting
:02:58. > :03:00.debates as to whether, for example, they will still commit to this
:03:01. > :03:04.ambition of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands, we do not
:03:05. > :03:07.know the answer yet. It is a question on whether she is setting
:03:08. > :03:15.herself up for difficulties later on. It will be a short manifesto, I
:03:16. > :03:19.would venture to guess? It is in her interests to be as noncommittal as
:03:20. > :03:23.possible, that argues for a short manifesto but what does strike me
:03:24. > :03:28.about the Conservative campaign, aside from the ambiguity on policy,
:03:29. > :03:33.is how personal it is. I think Theresa May, in her most recent
:03:34. > :03:36.speech, referred to "My local candidates", rather than
:03:37. > :03:43.Parliamentary candidates, very much framing it as a presidential
:03:44. > :03:47.candidate in France or the USA. Not a rational on her part. Everything I
:03:48. > :03:52.hear from the MPs on the ground and the focus groups being done by the
:03:53. > :03:56.parties, is that a big chunk of the population personally identify with
:03:57. > :03:59.her. If you can wrap up Middle England into a physical object and
:04:00. > :04:05.embody it in a person, it would be her. Although Jeremy Corbyn's
:04:06. > :04:08.unpopularity accounts for a big slice of her popularity, she has
:04:09. > :04:12.done a good job of bonding with the public. We never saw that coming!
:04:13. > :04:16.But you may well be right. That is happening now. Labour say it wants
:04:17. > :04:21.the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell to play a more prominent role in the
:04:22. > :04:24.Labour campaign, he was on The Andrew Marr Show this morning and he
:04:25. > :04:29.was asked if he was a Marxist, he denied that he was. It surprised me
:04:30. > :04:37.as I had seen tape from before saying that he was proud of it.
:04:38. > :04:42.Let's look now and then. Are you a Marxist? I believe that there is a
:04:43. > :04:46.lot to learn... Yes or no? I believe that there is a lot to learn from
:04:47. > :04:49.reading capital, that is recommended not only by me but measuring
:04:50. > :04:57.economists as well. I also believe that in the long tradition of the
:04:58. > :05:01.Labour Party... We need to demand systemic change. I am a Marxist.
:05:02. > :05:06.This is a classic crisis of the economy. A capitalist crisis. I've
:05:07. > :05:13.been waiting for this for a generation! That was from about four
:05:14. > :05:17.years ago. No, I'm not a Marxist, yes, I am a Marxist... I've been
:05:18. > :05:21.waiting for the Marxist revolution my whole life... Does this kind of
:05:22. > :05:27.thing matter? Yes, but in fairness, I think he is a really good
:05:28. > :05:30.interviewee. The Shadow Cabinet have untested figures in a national
:05:31. > :05:36.campaign. None have ever been exposed at any level to a national
:05:37. > :05:41.media campaign that they are about to experience. He is the best
:05:42. > :05:46.interviewee. In fairness to him, when he gave that clip four years
:05:47. > :05:49.ago, I bet he never dream that he would be in a senior front bench
:05:50. > :05:54.position. But the background is clear. They are of the left, and I
:05:55. > :06:01.think they would all have described it. Jeremy Corbyn would have done,
:06:02. > :06:05.he is close to being like Tony Benn. There are about four Labour campaign
:06:06. > :06:08.is being fought in this election. Their campaign, the old Shadow
:06:09. > :06:13.Cabinet, campaigning in constituencies, but not identifying
:06:14. > :06:20.with that campaign. There is the former Labour leader Tony Blair. Is
:06:21. > :06:23.it damaging? I think so, if they could be damaged any further, I
:06:24. > :06:27.could see all of the Labour MPs with their heads in their hands. What I
:06:28. > :06:31.am hearing from Labour MPs is that there is not one of them who do not
:06:32. > :06:36.feel that they have a horrendous battle on their hands. These will be
:06:37. > :06:40.very individual local campaigns, where local MPs are winning despite
:06:41. > :06:45.the party leadership and not because of it. Already, talk is turning to
:06:46. > :06:49.what happens next. Is there anyway that Jeremy Corbyn, giving a
:06:50. > :06:55.horrendous set of general election results as many anticipate, may stay
:06:56. > :07:01.on all the same? It is not clear that even if the polls are right,
:07:02. > :07:06.that Mr Corbyn will go? John McDonnell implied it might not be
:07:07. > :07:10.the case but previously, he said it would be. What do you make of
:07:11. > :07:15.reports that the Labour strategy is not, I cannot quite believe I am
:07:16. > :07:20.saying this, not to win seats but maximise a share of the vote. If
:07:21. > :07:24.they do better than Ed Miliband with 30.5% of the vote, they believe they
:07:25. > :07:29.live to fight another day? Yes, it reminded me of Tony Benn's speech
:07:30. > :07:33.after the 1983 election where they said as bad as the Parliamentary
:07:34. > :07:37.defeat was there were 8 million votes for socialism. A big section
:07:38. > :07:45.of public opinion voted for that manifesto. I wonder whether that is
:07:46. > :07:50.Corbyn's supporters best chance of holding onto power. Whether they can
:07:51. > :07:55.say that those votes are a platform on which we can build. That said,
:07:56. > :07:59.even moderate Labour MPs and desperate for a quick leadership
:08:00. > :08:03.contest. I hear a lot of them say that they would like to leave it for
:08:04. > :08:07.one year. Maybe have Tom Watson as an acting Labour leader. He would
:08:08. > :08:11.still have a mandate. Give the top party a chance to regroup and get
:08:12. > :08:14.rid of some of its problems and decide where it stands on policy.
:08:15. > :08:18.Most importantly, for potential candidates to show what they are
:08:19. > :08:24.made of, rather than lurching straight into an Yvette Cooper
:08:25. > :08:31.Coronation. 30 seconds on the Liberal Democrats, their strategy
:08:32. > :08:39.was to mop up the Remain vote. Uncertain about the Brexit party in
:08:40. > :08:41.demise. Ukip. The remain as have a dilemma, the little Democrats are
:08:42. > :08:48.not a strong enough vessel with 89 MPs to risk all ongoing for them --
:08:49. > :08:53.the Liberal Democrats. Labour do not know where they stand on Brexit.
:08:54. > :09:02.There is not a robust alternative vessel for what is now a pro-Brexit
:09:03. > :09:04.Conservative Party. At the moment. Four weeks to go, but not for
:09:05. > :09:06.France... France has been voting since early
:09:07. > :09:09.this morning, and we should get a first estimate of who will be
:09:10. > :09:12.the country's next President Just to warn you there are some
:09:13. > :09:16.flashing images coming up. The choice in France
:09:17. > :09:18.is between a centre-left liberal reformer Emmanuel Macron
:09:19. > :09:20.and a right-wing nationalist Marine Le Pen - both have been
:09:21. > :09:22.casting their votes this morning. The two candidates topped
:09:23. > :09:25.a field of 11 presidential hopefuls in the first
:09:26. > :09:27.round of elections last month. The campaign has been marked
:09:28. > :09:29.by its unpredictability, and in a final twist on Friday
:09:30. > :09:35.evening, just before campaigning officially ended,
:09:36. > :09:37.Mr Macron's En Marche! group said it had been the victim
:09:38. > :09:43.of a "massive" hack, with a trove of documents
:09:44. > :09:45.released online. The Macron team said real documents
:09:46. > :09:48.were mixed up with fake ones, and electoral authorities warned
:09:49. > :09:50.media and the public that spreading details of the leaks would breach
:09:51. > :10:01.strict election rules. I'm joined now from
:10:02. > :10:14.Paris by the journalist As I left Paris recently, everybody
:10:15. > :10:17.told me that there was the consensus that Mr Macron would win, and win
:10:18. > :10:23.pretty comfortable you. Is there any reason to doubt that? -- pretty
:10:24. > :10:28.comfortably. I don't think so, there have been so many people left and
:10:29. > :10:33.right, former candidates who have decided that it was more important
:10:34. > :10:36.to vote for Macron, even if it was agreed with him, then run the risk
:10:37. > :10:44.of having Marine Le Pen as president. I think the spread is now
:10:45. > :10:47.20 points, 60% to Macron, 40% to Le Pen. So outside of the margin of
:10:48. > :10:53.error that it would take something huge for this to be observed. If the
:10:54. > :11:01.polls are right and Mr Macron wins, he has to put together a government,
:11:02. > :11:06.and in May there is a Coronation, then he faces parliamentary
:11:07. > :11:10.elections in June and could face a fractured parliament where he does
:11:11. > :11:14.not have a clear majority for his reforms. He could then faced
:11:15. > :11:19.difficulties in getting his programme through? I think that
:11:20. > :11:25.right now, with how things are looking, considering you have one
:11:26. > :11:30.half of the Republican party, the Conservative Party, they are making
:11:31. > :11:34.clear sides, not only that they want to support Macron but are supporting
:11:35. > :11:39.him actively. It means looking at the equivalent of the German party,
:11:40. > :11:44.the great coalition. Depending on how many seats established parties
:11:45. > :11:53.keep in the house committee may very well have a Republican Prime
:11:54. > :12:03.Minister, rather than having an adversarial MP, he may have someone
:12:04. > :12:10.who is relatively unknown outside of France, and a young woman. Contended
:12:11. > :12:16.that lost the Parez mayorship three years ago. She is a scientist and
:12:17. > :12:21.has been secretary of state. She would be an interesting coalition
:12:22. > :12:27.Prime Minister. Finally, Marine Le Pen, if she goes down to defeat a
:12:28. > :12:34.night, does she have the stomach and ambition, and the energy, to try it
:12:35. > :12:39.all again in 2022? She has all of that. The question is, would they
:12:40. > :12:44.let her? How badly would she lose? Her niece, now 27, a hard-working
:12:45. > :12:52.and steady person, unlike Marine Le Pen, who flunked her do paid --
:12:53. > :13:00.debate, her niece may decide that 2022 is her turn. Yet another Le
:13:01. > :13:04.Pen! All right, we will see. Just five years to wait, but only a few
:13:05. > :13:06.hours until the results of the election tonight.
:13:07. > :13:11.And we will get the exit polls here on the BBC. Given the exit polls
:13:12. > :13:15.will give as a pretty fair indication of what the result is
:13:16. > :13:19.going to be tonight. That will be on BBC news. That's all for today.
:13:20. > :13:22.The Daily Politics will cover every turn of this election campaign,
:13:23. > :13:26.And we're back here on BBC One at our usual time Next Sunday.
:13:27. > :13:28.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:13:29. > :14:17.Our crack team of experts use pioneering research
:14:18. > :14:20...to how to help your pet lose weight.