05/11/2017

0:00:38 > 0:00:40Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

0:00:40 > 0:00:42I'm Sarah Smith.

0:00:42 > 0:00:45And this is your guide to everything that's happening in the world

0:00:45 > 0:00:46of politics this Sunday morning.

0:00:46 > 0:00:49On today's show:

0:00:49 > 0:00:52Theresa May's right-hand man Damian Green has denied claims that

0:00:52 > 0:00:58police found pornography on a computer in his office in 2008.

0:00:58 > 0:01:01He says the allegations by a former police chief are "political smears."

0:01:01 > 0:01:04With claims of sexual harassment at Westminster growing by the day,

0:01:04 > 0:01:06can either Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn do anything to get

0:01:06 > 0:01:08to grips with a scandal threatening to engulf

0:01:08 > 0:01:12the entire political class?

0:01:12 > 0:01:19We'll ask a minister and senior member of the Shadow Cabinet.

0:01:19 > 0:01:24And some on the left of politics have been gathering to mark 100

0:01:24 > 0:01:27Here, protests gather pace over fracking for shale gas in North

0:01:27 > 0:01:28Yorkshire.

0:01:28 > 0:01:30And why the number of apprenticeships has fallen so

0:01:30 > 0:01:32dramatically, we report from Teesside.

0:01:45 > 0:01:47So there's plenty of explosive political news

0:01:47 > 0:01:49to get you in the mood for bonfire night -

0:01:49 > 0:01:52and with me as usual, three journalists who know quite

0:01:52 > 0:01:54a bit about parliamentary plots - if rather less about

0:01:54 > 0:01:55gunpowder and treason.

0:01:55 > 0:01:57It's Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

0:01:57 > 0:02:01So what are the big political stories making the news this Sunday?

0:02:01 > 0:02:09Well, the papers are brimming with further allegations against MPs

0:02:09 > 0:02:12in the sexual harassment scandal, which according to one newspaper has

0:02:12 > 0:02:13left Westminster frozen in fear.

0:02:13 > 0:02:15First Secretary of State Damian Green, already under

0:02:15 > 0:02:17investigation over allegations - which he strongly denies -

0:02:17 > 0:02:20of propositioning a female activist, is the subject of new claims that

0:02:20 > 0:02:22police discovered pornography on a computer in his Westminster

0:02:22 > 0:02:24office in 2008.

0:02:24 > 0:02:26Mr Green denies the allegation, made by former senior

0:02:26 > 0:02:28police officer Bob Quick, saying it is "completely untrue,"

0:02:28 > 0:02:36and adding that he is the victim of disreputable "political smears."

0:02:36 > 0:02:38Michael Fallon, who resigned as Defence Secretary this week

0:02:38 > 0:02:41over his past behaviour, is also subject to fresh claims

0:02:41 > 0:02:47he lunged at a female journalist in 2003 after a lunch.

0:02:47 > 0:02:49Labour is facing questions over its handling of sexual

0:02:49 > 0:02:56misconduct allegations.

0:02:56 > 0:02:58This morning Shadow Cabinet minister Dawn Butler refused to be drawn

0:02:58 > 0:03:01on whether Jeremy Corbyn knew about alleged misconduct by MP

0:03:01 > 0:03:09Kelvin Hopkins when he was promoted to the Shadow Cabinet.

0:03:09 > 0:03:11And there is a reminder that normal political life goes on,

0:03:11 > 0:03:14with reports that the Cabinet has agreed to put housing at the heart

0:03:14 > 0:03:16of Philip Hammond's upcoming Budget.

0:03:16 > 0:03:18Well, let's hear from Home Secretary Amber Rudd now -

0:03:18 > 0:03:21she was on the Andrew Marr Show earlier talking about the claims

0:03:21 > 0:03:23against her Cabinet colleague Damian Green.

0:03:23 > 0:03:30Absolutely not. I think it is something that will take place in

0:03:30 > 0:03:35terms of clearing out Westminster of that sort of behaviour, and I think

0:03:35 > 0:03:37that Westminster afterwards, including the Government, will be

0:03:37 > 0:03:45better for it. When we are confident that men and women can work any

0:03:45 > 0:03:48respectful environment and people on the receiving end of abuse of power

0:03:48 > 0:03:54can come forward. That will be a positive thing.

0:03:54 > 0:03:58Let's see what our panel make of this fairly explosive week. Good

0:03:58 > 0:04:06morning to all of you. Starting with you, Steve. Not a party political

0:04:06 > 0:04:09issue but the Tories are in Government. How much harder for them

0:04:09 > 0:04:13is it an Labour?Always harder when you are in Government because it

0:04:13 > 0:04:17makes governing almost impossible. And the wider context is a Prime

0:04:17 > 0:04:20Minister who lost her overall majority a few months ago and

0:04:20 > 0:04:23actually that is the context of everything. When you are having to

0:04:23 > 0:04:26deal with the scandal of such unpredictability, where the

0:04:26 > 0:04:38terms are so imprecise, it is a "lunge", a resignation issue, to use

0:04:38 > 0:04:42that term, and nightmare. I don't think it is fatal. Scandals rarely

0:04:42 > 0:04:48bring down governments, but it makes governing for Theresa May a form of

0:04:48 > 0:04:51political health.Isabel Oakeshott, Damian Green has denied all

0:04:51 > 0:04:54allegations made against him, but there are more this morning. He is

0:04:54 > 0:05:00being investigated by the Cabinet Office at the moment. If Theresa May

0:05:00 > 0:05:03were to effectively lose her Deputy Prime Minister, has serious without

0:05:03 > 0:05:08the?I think very serious indeed. I think it is very significant and

0:05:08 > 0:05:11strange he was not defended in the Home Secretary Amber Rudd in that

0:05:11 > 0:05:16clip we saw today, she didn't say I am certain he will survive, and I am

0:05:16 > 0:05:20beginning to feel that Damian may not survive this. We don't know

0:05:20 > 0:05:24whether it is the last of the allegations that may come out in

0:05:24 > 0:05:28relation to him. It seems to me that the allegations were previously of a

0:05:28 > 0:05:34rather minor order, but this seems to have escalated. And I think one

0:05:34 > 0:05:37of the big problems for Theresa May, and there are the many at the

0:05:37 > 0:05:43moment, for months we have been saying that this Government has no

0:05:43 > 0:05:46bandwidth to do anything except Brexit and right now she can't even

0:05:46 > 0:05:49do Brexit. What is the point of it all?It is important to make clear

0:05:49 > 0:05:53not only that Damian Green denies all of these allegations, but the

0:05:53 > 0:05:59computer mentioned was in a shared office so there is no reason it

0:05:59 > 0:06:04would definitely be his # No guarantee it would definitely

0:06:04 > 0:06:16be his. But we have had two MPs on television this morning, Anna

0:06:16 > 0:06:20Soubry, saying he should stand down. There is an awful lot going on here.

0:06:20 > 0:06:26It is not just a pretty awful sexual harassment scandal. There are also

0:06:26 > 0:06:30without a doubt MPs, police officers, going about settling

0:06:30 > 0:06:35scores. For me I have to say for our pretty discredited police officer

0:06:35 > 0:06:39Bob Quick, to make accusations against serving Cabinet minister, to

0:06:39 > 0:06:47suggest he should go for extreme pornography on computers he may or

0:06:47 > 0:06:50may not have known, it may be extremely distasteful but it is

0:06:50 > 0:06:52alarming for democracy to have ex-police officers like this coming

0:06:52 > 0:06:57in and trying to play with democracy. Some politicians are also

0:06:57 > 0:06:59meeting claims, some for the right reasons to get the allegations out

0:06:59 > 0:07:03there and so on but others for their own agendas and all of this puts the

0:07:03 > 0:07:07Prime Minister in an unbelievably hard situation. I agree with Steve

0:07:07 > 0:07:11and Isabel, she desperately needs two show leadership in all this, but

0:07:11 > 0:07:13every way she could turn there are incredible downfalls, people blaming

0:07:13 > 0:07:18her for trying to get to the bottom of all this. It is very people who

0:07:18 > 0:07:22she is relying on for her leadership, the very Tory MPs the

0:07:22 > 0:07:26support she can't lose.It is not just the Tory party and of course

0:07:26 > 0:07:29Jeremy Corbyn will be making a speech later today where this will

0:07:29 > 0:07:33inevitably and there are accusations about how the senior leadership in

0:07:33 > 0:07:38the Labour Party have handled this. What about that situation?Yes, but

0:07:38 > 0:07:41the Government is much harder because you are meant to be doing

0:07:41 > 0:07:4510,000 other things at the same time. This is about a deregulated

0:07:45 > 0:07:49work environment. For all those who say, I hate the way Britain is too

0:07:49 > 0:07:51regulated, this is what happens in a deregulated work environment. The

0:07:51 > 0:08:01House of Commons has no HR or whatever, MPs, advisors, so, MPs

0:08:01 > 0:08:04actually don't have much power but they do have power over who the

0:08:04 > 0:08:08point and how to treat them. I think this is the way forward in terms of

0:08:08 > 0:08:11the practical outcome, but it is across the political spectrum.But

0:08:11 > 0:08:16it is unclear what it will be. Can the party sort this out?I'm not

0:08:16 > 0:08:20sure I entirely agree, Steve, you cannot regulate all human

0:08:20 > 0:08:24interaction and a lot of these stories have been about interactions

0:08:24 > 0:08:29between politicians and journalists alike, who have gone out for lunch,

0:08:29 > 0:08:34chosen to drink, presumably to create an informal atmosphere, and

0:08:34 > 0:08:39at what point is a step towards somebody to say goodbye, a peck on

0:08:39 > 0:08:44the cheek or whatever, a lunge? You can't regulate that sort of thing.

0:08:44 > 0:08:49Throughout the programme will come back to some of these things and how

0:08:49 > 0:08:50they might be regulated.

0:08:50 > 0:08:52Now, the Home Secretary has also today been talking

0:08:52 > 0:08:55about what she calls the "moral duty" of social media companies

0:08:55 > 0:08:58to stop child sexual exploitation, ahead of a meeting with her US

0:08:58 > 0:08:59counterparts this week.

0:08:59 > 0:09:02We're joined now by the Home Office minister Sarah Newton -

0:09:02 > 0:09:04she's in our Truro studio.

0:09:04 > 0:09:07Thanks very much for coming in to speak the first night. I want to

0:09:07 > 0:09:10talk to you about the Government's efforts to tackle child pornography,

0:09:10 > 0:09:14but let's pick up on some of the sexual harassment issues at

0:09:14 > 0:09:17Westminster first. Two of your parliamentary colleagues this

0:09:17 > 0:09:20morning saying they think the first Secretary of State Damian Green

0:09:20 > 0:09:27should step down whilst being investigated. Do you agree?Look, he

0:09:27 > 0:09:32has vigorously denied these accusations, and the Cabinet Office

0:09:32 > 0:09:38is investigating these accusations, so we do have processes for when

0:09:38 > 0:09:40ministers have these accusations made against them so they are

0:09:40 > 0:09:45properly investigated. And that is what is going on at the moment.Is

0:09:45 > 0:09:49that process people can be confident in? He is effectively being

0:09:49 > 0:09:55investigated by Jeremy Heywood, one of his colleagues.This is a tried

0:09:55 > 0:10:00and tested process that has stood the test of time, and it is

0:10:00 > 0:10:04important...Has it? Surely what we are learning is it has not stood the

0:10:04 > 0:10:06test of time and that in fact allegations like this have been

0:10:06 > 0:10:11swept under the carpet and ignored for years and years in Westminster,

0:10:11 > 0:10:15exactly what we are learning right now.I think you are conflating two

0:10:15 > 0:10:19things they are, and what we really do need to do is look at the whole

0:10:19 > 0:10:23range of allegations people have been making, and make sure

0:10:23 > 0:10:27Parliament is a safe place for people to work, a respectful

0:10:27 > 0:10:32environment for people who have been subjected to harassment or bullying

0:10:32 > 0:10:34or inappropriate behaviour, so that they feel confident to come forward

0:10:34 > 0:10:39knowing they will be listened to, that there will be an open and

0:10:39 > 0:10:41transparent and fair to everyone concerned process for getting to the

0:10:41 > 0:10:46bottom of it, and that is exactly what the Prime Minister and the

0:10:46 > 0:10:51Leader of the Cows have set out, Prime Minister's meeting with all

0:10:51 > 0:10:56the leaders of the parties tomorrow to set out a proper process so we

0:10:56 > 0:11:04can modernise the work environment at Westminster -- leader of the

0:11:04 > 0:11:08House have set out.You think Damian Green should remain in the Cabinet

0:11:08 > 0:11:14well being investigated?That will be down to Sir Jeremy Heywood. If he

0:11:14 > 0:11:18thinks the misdemeanours have a basis, that he should stand aside,

0:11:18 > 0:11:24that will be the recommendation. I will not second the inquiry on what

0:11:24 > 0:11:28Sir Jeremy Heywood finds.You were in the Whips' Office yourself for a

0:11:28 > 0:11:32year. And much has been said this week of the whips being in receipt

0:11:32 > 0:11:36of a lot of information about bad behaviour, and instead of reporting

0:11:36 > 0:11:39it to authorities they were using it as ammunition. Was that your

0:11:39 > 0:11:46experience?Absolutely not. I was at the Whips' Office up to 2015 and,

0:11:46 > 0:11:49yes, I heard about the rumours of a black spreadsheet, and I can

0:11:49 > 0:11:53certainly say I never saw such a thing. How I went about my business

0:11:53 > 0:11:58as a whip is really twofold. It is quite a technical job in many ways,

0:11:58 > 0:12:04about of the Government through the House, working with the House

0:12:04 > 0:12:07authorities, the opposition. Also... Did you ever hear rumours of these

0:12:07 > 0:12:16people's bad behaviour?Sorry?Did you ever hear rumours of MPs

0:12:16 > 0:12:19misbehaving, sexual harassment, allegations are that?If anybody had

0:12:19 > 0:12:23brought a complaint to me about the behaviour of one of the MPs who were

0:12:23 > 0:12:27in my flock, I would take that really seriously, but bull-mac, that

0:12:27 > 0:12:31didn't happen.You said nobody brought you a complaint. Did you

0:12:31 > 0:12:37hear rumours? -- but no, that didn't happen.About the members of my

0:12:37 > 0:12:41flock? Absolutely not.Is that the MPs you were specifically in charge

0:12:41 > 0:12:48of?I did not have that experience at all.Let's move on and talk about

0:12:48 > 0:12:51the Home Secretary's trip to Washington this week, where she will

0:12:51 > 0:12:55urge tech companies to go further and faster on online child abuse. We

0:12:55 > 0:12:59have heard a lot from this Government urging these companies to

0:12:59 > 0:13:02do something. One specific ideas of what they could do, do you have a

0:13:02 > 0:13:06clear idea of what you are asking from tech companies?Absolutely

0:13:06 > 0:13:12right. As you know, this horrendous crime of child sexual exploitation

0:13:12 > 0:13:17and grooming is constantly evolving as the opportunities for the

0:13:17 > 0:13:21perpetrators arise. They are now using live streaming, different

0:13:21 > 0:13:25sorts of platforms, which are largely controlled by the big

0:13:25 > 0:13:30companies in America. What we really want them to do is to step up and

0:13:30 > 0:13:35use their huge expertise, used the huge money they have got, to help

0:13:35 > 0:13:39find technological solutions to read their sites and rid the opportunity

0:13:39 > 0:13:42of these paedophiles to be able to groom young people. We need the

0:13:42 > 0:13:49politicians in America to exert pressure, as well as other

0:13:49 > 0:13:52companies, because these are global problems. We are not going to solve

0:13:52 > 0:13:56this problem in the UK alone. We have made a lot of progress, working

0:13:56 > 0:14:01with Facebook and other companies as well, but we really need to keep one

0:14:01 > 0:14:06step ahead of the technology, one step ahead of the perpetrators, who

0:14:06 > 0:14:11are using these opportunities to commit horrendous crimes.

0:14:11 > 0:14:15It was back in 2014 Theresa May for the Internet companies to do more in

0:14:15 > 0:14:19terms of child abuse online and we have not seen significant action,

0:14:19 > 0:14:22and it does not appear these kind of calls from the Government actually

0:14:22 > 0:14:28make difference. Well, at the moment we are seeing

0:14:28 > 0:14:32the police being able to make about 400 arrests per month, about 500

0:14:32 > 0:14:36children being safeguarded. The Government itself is investing a lot

0:14:36 > 0:14:42of money in new technology like the project Arachnid, and making sure

0:14:42 > 0:14:46the police have the specialist resources they need to go

0:14:46 > 0:14:49undercover, and absolutely find these perpetrators and bring them to

0:14:49 > 0:14:52justice, but we do need to constantly have the engagement and

0:14:52 > 0:14:56support of the companies themselves to invest in further technologies to

0:14:56 > 0:15:00prevent this from happening. As you say, we have made progress but we

0:15:00 > 0:15:04need to see yet more.Sarah Newton, thank you very much for speaking to

0:15:04 > 0:15:06us today.

0:15:06 > 0:15:08Michael Fallon's decision to resign this week,

0:15:08 > 0:15:13saying his past conduct with women fell short of the standard expected

0:15:13 > 0:15:16of the Armed Forces, led to something of a minor reshuffle.

0:15:16 > 0:15:17And the Prime Minister took Westminster by surprise

0:15:17 > 0:15:20when she announced his replacement, former Chief Whip and relative

0:15:20 > 0:15:22newcomer to the ministerial ranks, Gavin Williamson.

0:15:22 > 0:15:27Here he is speaking on the day of his appointment.

0:15:27 > 0:15:29It's an immense privilege to have been appointed Secretary

0:15:29 > 0:15:31of State for Defence, and what we need to be doing

0:15:31 > 0:15:33is continuing to focus on countering Daesh,

0:15:33 > 0:15:36making sure that our national security is at the forefront

0:15:36 > 0:15:39of everything that we do, and we have some of the world's

0:15:39 > 0:15:41greatest armed services, and it's such a privilege to be able

0:15:41 > 0:15:47to work with them.

0:15:47 > 0:15:50Gavin Williamson, who you saw there, arrives at the Ministry of Defence

0:15:50 > 0:15:52at a challenging time for UK defence.

0:15:52 > 0:15:54The Government has promised an above-inflation increase

0:15:54 > 0:15:56in spending every year but the Ministry of Defence

0:15:56 > 0:15:58is already committed to finding £20 billion of savings

0:15:58 > 0:15:59over the next ten years.

0:15:59 > 0:16:02The Cabinet Office is currently conducting a security review

0:16:02 > 0:16:04which will look at military capabilities and funding up to 2022,

0:16:04 > 0:16:06while there are continuing reports of shortages

0:16:06 > 0:16:11of manpower and equipment.

0:16:11 > 0:16:13And if Labour were to win power, questions persist over

0:16:13 > 0:16:15what a Jeremy Corbyn premiership would mean for defence budget

0:16:15 > 0:16:18and the traditional cornerstones of UK defence policy

0:16:18 > 0:16:19like Trident and Nato.

0:16:19 > 0:16:20Well we're joined now by the Shadow Defence

0:16:20 > 0:16:24secretary, Nia Griffith.

0:16:24 > 0:16:26Well we're joined now by the Shadow Defence

0:16:26 > 0:16:31secretary, Nia Griffith.

0:16:31 > 0:16:36Let's talk about defence spending first. Would Labour commit to the

0:16:36 > 0:16:39same thing this Government has which is an above inflation increase in

0:16:39 > 0:16:44spending every year?We've been absolutely clear about that. First

0:16:44 > 0:16:49and foremost we'd meet our commitment of spending at least 2%

0:16:49 > 0:16:55of GDP on defence as is our Nato commitment and we would match the

0:16:55 > 0:16:58Government's year-on-year 0.5% increase above inflation. This is

0:16:58 > 0:17:02really important. Labour's always had a good strong track record of

0:17:02 > 0:17:06spending on defence.Jeremy Corbyn seems to have a different view.

0:17:06 > 0:17:11Speaking at a protest in 2010 he said Labour wanted to fight all the

0:17:11 > 0:17:15cuts except those in the Armed Forces where we want to see a few

0:17:15 > 0:17:19more cuts taking place. He doesn't seem committed to defence spending?

0:17:19 > 0:17:24In the manifesto for this year's election, 2017, he and John

0:17:24 > 0:17:27McDonnell have been absolutely clear we support the exact words I've been

0:17:27 > 0:17:33using now, at least 2% of the spend of GDP spent on defence.Jeremy

0:17:33 > 0:17:37Corbyn's changed his mind on that? He's been very clear about that and

0:17:37 > 0:17:43it was in our manifesto this year. You criticised the Government on

0:17:43 > 0:17:48whether they meet their 2% commitment on defence. You saying

0:17:48 > 0:17:51they were fiddling the figures because they were including

0:17:51 > 0:17:56pensions. You would strip that out and snake sure there's 2% spending

0:17:56 > 0:18:00on defence which doesn't include pensions?Technically, the

0:18:00 > 0:18:02Government would argue you are allowed to include pensions by the

0:18:02 > 0:18:07Nato rules. But we've been very clear, really, when you're talking

0:18:07 > 0:18:12about defence spending it should mean defence. When you look at the

0:18:12 > 0:18:17last year of the Labour Government we spent 2.5% GDP on defence. We are

0:18:17 > 0:18:22very much committed to looking at what we need in our defence budget

0:18:22 > 0:18:26and looking to the problems they have now where they can't meet the

0:18:26 > 0:18:31commitments they've made.You would sprip pensions out of those figures.

0:18:31 > 0:18:36In order to live up to these commitments you have to find an

0:18:36 > 0:18:40extra billion for the defence budgets because we're not

0:18:40 > 0:18:44calculating pensions anymore?John McDonnell is well aware of what they

0:18:44 > 0:18:49are doing. Putting in the conflict resolution money which Gordon Brown

0:18:49 > 0:18:53kept separate. He is well aware of the figures and the difficulties. We

0:18:53 > 0:18:57are certainly very committed to a defence budget that really does make

0:18:57 > 0:19:02a difference.I'm not clear whether you're telling me it will be 2% 69

0:19:02 > 0:19:09spending, excluding pensions?We want it to be 2% of GDP as in the

0:19:09 > 0:19:13way Labour always calculate it had up until 2010, not including

0:19:13 > 0:19:17pensions.A significant increase in military spending?We are talking

0:19:17 > 0:19:22about making sure the spending we need is there because, at the

0:19:22 > 0:19:25current situation, we have with the current Government, they are

0:19:25 > 0:19:30overstretched. Even the very caution National Audit Office says they are

0:19:30 > 0:19:36at immense risk of not being able to meet the expenditure commitment the

0:19:36 > 0:19:41they have made. Others talk about a black hole. You mentioned it that

0:19:41 > 0:19:48£20 billion. There is a real issue we have to address.To you know what

0:19:48 > 0:19:52it will cost, how muchedingsal funds will have to be found?We have to

0:19:52 > 0:19:58rook at what are the needs at the time as well as the facts we want to

0:19:58 > 0:20:02make that 2% commitment not including things which have just

0:20:02 > 0:20:05been brushed in now by the Conservative Government.Let's move

0:20:05 > 0:20:12on to a different aspect of defence. There is a treaty banning nuclear

0:20:12 > 0:20:15weapons opened at the UN for signatories. 122 countries have

0:20:15 > 0:20:20already signed it. Would an incoming Labour Government sign that treaty?

0:20:20 > 0:20:24The important point here is there was an Is inned opportunity for

0:20:24 > 0:20:29there to be observers from the UK. There should have been at that

0:20:29 > 0:20:34treaty talks.That doesn't change the calculation whether or not an

0:20:34 > 0:20:41incoming Labour Government would sign that treaty?We are committed

0:20:41 > 0:20:45to a strong multi-lateral disarming programme. That's what we've seen

0:20:45 > 0:20:49missing.This is a multilateral approach to try to get rid of

0:20:49 > 0:20:54nuclear weapons. What you say you want. Would a Labour Government sign

0:20:54 > 0:20:58that treaty?You we have to look at how you go about things. We need toe

0:20:58 > 0:21:02somebody clear we want to de-escalate tensions across the

0:21:02 > 0:21:07world. Work with other nuclear partners to help stop the

0:21:07 > 0:21:11proliferation of nuclear weapons. We want to work with those countries

0:21:11 > 0:21:16who feel very strongly about the treaty so we can work together. We

0:21:16 > 0:21:22have to do that in a multilateral framework.This is a multi-lateral

0:21:22 > 0:21:26disarmament framework. Under the auspice Is of the UN disto see how

0:21:26 > 0:21:30else it could be organised. This is a great opportunity for you, who

0:21:30 > 0:21:35have been a lifelong campaigner for disarmament.ment Labour Government

0:21:35 > 0:21:41will be the first nuclear power to do so, sign it and lead the way.We

0:21:41 > 0:21:45need to use our position to be responsible and call for responsible

0:21:45 > 0:21:49multi-lateral disarmamentment there was progress made on this in the

0:21:49 > 0:21:51eighties and nineties with considerable amount of are heads put

0:21:51 > 0:21:56to one side and destroyed. We need to get back on the front foot there.

0:21:56 > 0:21:59I don't see any presence by the UK Government at the moment on that

0:21:59 > 0:22:04aagain da. It is not helpful for the nukes leer nations to be separated

0:22:04 > 0:22:10from the non-nuclear nation in the these debates.That's why I don't

0:22:10 > 0:22:14understand why you're not taking the opportunity to say a Labour

0:22:14 > 0:22:18Government would Take The Stand.We should wok together and we should

0:22:18 > 0:22:23use our position as a nuclear power to work for a multilateral

0:22:23 > 0:22:27disarmament programme.You were very clear in your manifesto that the

0:22:27 > 0:22:31Labour Party would keep Trident for the meantime.Abs will yously.We

0:22:31 > 0:22:34know throughout his life, Jeremy Corbyn's long wanted to get rid of

0:22:34 > 0:22:40it. He signed up to the manifesto saying Trident would stay. Has he

0:22:40 > 0:22:46changed his minds?The important thing is that was a manifesto

0:22:46 > 0:22:50Jeremy, John McDonnell's agreed to. We stood on it in 2017 because that

0:22:50 > 0:22:54is the Labour Party position. Absolutely. I'm asking if the Labour

0:22:54 > 0:22:58Leader really believes in that position?He believes in democracy

0:22:58 > 0:23:01in the party. That is the Labour Party position. I don't see that

0:23:01 > 0:23:05position changing at all. He has said very clearly that he accepts

0:23:05 > 0:23:09that is our Labour Party position. And that is the manifesto we've

0:23:09 > 0:23:14stood on and will continue to stand on.I'll need to ask questions about

0:23:14 > 0:23:19sexual harassment in Westminster. It is as much as inissue for the Labour

0:23:19 > 0:23:23Party as the Conservative. It was not clear listening to Dawn Butler,

0:23:23 > 0:23:26your colleague on The Andrew Marr Show this morning, she was asked

0:23:26 > 0:23:30whether or not the leadership knew about allegations by Kelvin Hopkins.

0:23:30 > 0:23:34Do you know?I absolutely do not know at this moment in time. That's

0:23:34 > 0:23:37why there has to be an investigation. It is extremely

0:23:37 > 0:23:42important to find out what the allegations were, exactly what

0:23:42 > 0:23:47happened, who was told and who told what to whom. Then we will be in a

0:23:47 > 0:23:51position to see what the situation is. In the meantime, Kelvin Hopkins

0:23:51 > 0:23:58has been suspended which is the cricket thing to do.Rosie Winterton

0:23:58 > 0:24:02has been outspoken about what she let the leadership know. If it is

0:24:02 > 0:24:06the case the leadership did know about these allegations should he

0:24:06 > 0:24:10have been put into the Shadow Cabinet?The real question is who

0:24:10 > 0:24:16did know what when.But what I'm asking you is...I am anot going to

0:24:16 > 0:24:21speculate whether there was an if or whatever. We need to know how that

0:24:21 > 0:24:25information was transmitted. Was it put in writing. What it made clear,

0:24:25 > 0:24:28who was told what, when. Until we have a full investigation it would

0:24:28 > 0:24:32be inappropriate to comment. What is absolute lie clear, we need to get

0:24:32 > 0:24:36this right for the future. We must have proper procedures so we deal

0:24:36 > 0:24:41with incidents as and when they occur. And we deal with them

0:24:41 > 0:24:45prepperly in a way which gets to the bottom of the issue and deals with

0:24:45 > 0:24:49it properly.Why should anyone have confidence the Labour Party will

0:24:49 > 0:24:54treat issues that seriously when, firstly there's a question whether

0:24:54 > 0:24:58they knew about Kelvin hop kips and others have been dissuaded from

0:24:58 > 0:25:04making complaints. Knots just Bex Bailey. Monica Lennon said when she

0:25:04 > 0:25:08was harassed at a party senior figures in the Labour Party told her

0:25:08 > 0:25:15it was her own fault. It seems as if there hasn't been a culture within

0:25:15 > 0:25:21Labour to make a complaint.That's why we're having a thorough review

0:25:21 > 0:25:25of procedures. We brought in new procedures in July. We need to

0:25:25 > 0:25:30ensure there's a proper helpline available. We are appointing an

0:25:30 > 0:25:33independent organisation which will deal with allegations first-hand so

0:25:33 > 0:25:37nobody has to go to somebody they think might know other people, be

0:25:37 > 0:25:42friends with other people. They can go somewhere completely confidential

0:25:42 > 0:25:47and private. These are often things you can't want to tell your cross

0:25:47 > 0:25:51friends about. We will appoint that organisation and make sure people

0:25:51 > 0:25:55can go there and access to it is made widely known. It is very, very

0:25:55 > 0:25:59important when people come into a job, they know if anything does

0:25:59 > 0:26:03happen, they will be able to complain. Whether they are ordinary

0:26:03 > 0:26:09party members or working in Westminster.Thank you for talking

0:26:09 > 0:26:09to us

0:26:09 > 0:26:11For Thank you for talking to us some

0:26:11 > 0:26:12on the left of politics,

0:26:12 > 0:26:15this weekend wasn't just a chance

0:26:15 > 0:26:17to mark the anniversary of the failed gunpowder

0:26:17 > 0:26:19plot here in Britain, but also events in Russia 100 years

0:26:19 > 0:26:21ago, when Bolshevik revolutionaries led by Lenin seized power

0:26:21 > 0:26:23and ushered in seven decades of Communist rule.

0:26:23 > 0:26:25For critics, that's something to regret, not celebrate.

0:26:25 > 0:26:27Elizabeth Glinka went to one event in London to find out more.

0:26:32 > 0:26:34The 7th November 1917.

0:26:34 > 0:26:38Red Guards under the leadership of Vladimir Lenin begin to occupy

0:26:38 > 0:26:42Government buildings in Petrograd.

0:26:42 > 0:26:45This uprising, known popularly as Red October

0:26:45 > 0:26:47because of the difference in the Gregorian calendar,

0:26:47 > 0:26:51was, in fact, a coup.

0:26:51 > 0:26:54The winds of socialist change had been blowing for some time.

0:26:54 > 0:27:00The Tsars had resisted reform and millions toiled in a state

0:27:00 > 0:27:02of almost medieval surfdom.

0:27:02 > 0:27:06Then war.

0:27:06 > 0:27:10Nearly two million Russians would die.

0:27:10 > 0:27:16The revolution had really begun nine months earlier in February 1917.

0:27:16 > 0:27:22The world's first socialist republic was declared.

0:27:22 > 0:27:24October, well that was the Bolsheviks

0:27:24 > 0:27:29asserting their authority.

0:27:30 > 0:27:34A hundred years on, as this event at the TUC shows,

0:27:34 > 0:27:37there's still plenty of people who want to remember and even

0:27:37 > 0:27:41celebrate those momentous events.

0:27:41 > 0:27:43Mainly as an event in history,

0:27:43 > 0:27:46this is an example of historical development in action,

0:27:46 > 0:27:50the ability of people to club together and be able to affect

0:27:50 > 0:27:51the discourse of history.

0:27:51 > 0:27:54It was people's first attempt at trying to build socialism.

0:27:54 > 0:27:56Although there were many terrible things that happened,

0:27:56 > 0:27:59I think we have to try and draw from experience.

0:27:59 > 0:28:01Jeremy Corbyn's close friend and adviser, Andrew Murray,

0:28:01 > 0:28:05was chairing the opening session.

0:28:05 > 0:28:08He didn't want to talk to us but we did manage to speak

0:28:08 > 0:28:14to the daughter of one of the most famous Communists of all time.

0:28:14 > 0:28:17TRANSLATION:It's an historic moment

0:28:17 > 0:28:19which opened up possibilities for further changes

0:28:19 > 0:28:22and allowed other people to strive for a different world.

0:28:22 > 0:28:25A world, which it seems, some are still keen to push for.

0:28:25 > 0:28:28We're growing, so there is obviously a positive reflection.

0:28:28 > 0:28:30There is a lot of negative propaganda that comes

0:28:30 > 0:28:32from the Cold War period.

0:28:32 > 0:28:34It is harder to talk to older people maybe.

0:28:34 > 0:28:36But younger people are quite receptive.

0:28:36 > 0:28:39The events and discussions taking place here today cover a whole range

0:28:39 > 0:28:42of topics from women's rights to the Third World

0:28:42 > 0:28:45and the impact on British socialism.

0:28:45 > 0:28:48But there's much less discussion of the Russian Civil War,

0:28:48 > 0:28:52the purges and the political repression that would come later.

0:28:52 > 0:28:55We wanted to have this conference

0:28:55 > 0:28:58because we wanted to show it in a positive light.

0:28:58 > 0:29:02Whatever one's view of what happened to the Soviet Union subsequently

0:29:02 > 0:29:05the fact is it is important to understand the process

0:29:05 > 0:29:09of revolutionary change for its own sake.

0:29:10 > 0:29:14Red October would usher in 70 years of communism.

0:29:14 > 0:29:17The proletarite would rise, find respect and security.

0:29:17 > 0:29:21But the suppression of the peoples of Eastern Europe, the forced labour

0:29:21 > 0:29:25camps and the murder of hundreds of thousands, if not millions

0:29:25 > 0:29:28of people, make it difficult for many to see that revolution

0:29:28 > 0:29:33as something to celebrate.

0:29:34 > 0:29:36That was Elizabeth Glinka reporting.

0:29:36 > 0:29:38So is the centenary of the Russian Revolution a cause

0:29:38 > 0:29:39for celebration, or regret?

0:29:39 > 0:29:42Well, to discuss this I'm joined by former Labour

0:29:42 > 0:29:48and Respect MP George Galloway, and the journalist Peter Hitchens.

0:29:48 > 0:29:52Good morning. Let me start with you George Galloway. Is the October

0:29:52 > 0:29:57revolution a cause for celebration? With the, if not for the October

0:29:57 > 0:30:01revolution, we'd been conducting this interview in German. Though the

0:30:01 > 0:30:04truth is this interview wouldn't be taking place and we probably

0:30:04 > 0:30:12wouldn't be alive for a variety of reasons. The Soviet Union broke the

0:30:12 > 0:30:15back of Hitler, as Mr Churchill often owe pined in Parliament and

0:30:15 > 0:30:23elsewhere. If not for the Soviet Union, Hitler would have ruled. And

0:30:23 > 0:30:28his successorsness, perhaps until now, from Vladivostok all the way to

0:30:28 > 0:30:32Portugal.You say we wouldn't be able to have this discussion. In the

0:30:32 > 0:30:35former Soviet Union we couldn't have this office either?That's also

0:30:35 > 0:30:43true. But even the...George will be able to say, that of course.Even

0:30:43 > 0:30:47the sun has spots on its face as they used to say in the Soviet

0:30:47 > 0:30:56Union. There is no doubt tremendous abrasions, big crimes, a lot of

0:30:56 > 0:31:06suffering but, if not for the transformation, then the Soviet

0:31:06 > 0:31:12Union, Russia's GDP increased from 1930 to 190 and the Nazi occupation.

0:31:12 > 0:31:20And the strength that defeated Hitlerism would not have been there.

0:31:20 > 0:31:23Peter Hitchens, does it offend you there are people celebrating 100

0:31:23 > 0:31:28years since the Russian Revolution? Offend? No, but in the Soviet Union,

0:31:28 > 0:31:34in which I lived, you would not have been able to say it was set up by a

0:31:34 > 0:31:36cynical bitch, almost bloodless, but engineered by the German Imperial

0:31:36 > 0:31:53Government using -- a cynical putsch, almost bloodless. That this

0:31:53 > 0:31:59was the inauguration of an immensely long period of repression,

0:31:59 > 0:32:02brutality, secret police, concentration camps and lies, which

0:32:02 > 0:32:07I am likely to have seen come to an end in my lifetime, and I cannot see

0:32:07 > 0:32:10why anybody looking at that disastrous country where so much

0:32:10 > 0:32:12misery was needlessly imposed on so many people for so long could

0:32:12 > 0:32:16possibly celebrate the beginning of it, which was completely avoidable,

0:32:16 > 0:32:22and as I say was truly the result of the cynical foreign policy and

0:32:22 > 0:32:24intelligence operations of the Imperial German Government is trying

0:32:24 > 0:32:28to save it skin...But everyone including George Galloway

0:32:28 > 0:32:33acknowledges the tyranny and terror that followed.He doesn't. He gives

0:32:33 > 0:32:36statistics about GDP but fails to mention the people murdered in

0:32:36 > 0:32:42labour

0:32:42 > 0:32:49camp... He was of course formerly a Trotskyite and sung the praises of

0:32:49 > 0:32:53Lenin, which I have not done and neither have I done today. I have

0:32:53 > 0:32:57never been a Communist, unlike Peter Hitchens, but I do acknowledge and

0:32:57 > 0:33:01celebrate that an entirely different world opened up as a result of the

0:33:01 > 0:33:06events in October 19 17. China, you have just seen their party congress,

0:33:06 > 0:33:11decorated with the iconography of the Bolshevik Revolution, and China

0:33:11 > 0:33:14is the most powerful, or soon will be the most powerful country on the

0:33:14 > 0:33:19earth.With one of the most repressive government?I don't think

0:33:19 > 0:33:25that is true. There is repression in China, but...Enormous repression in

0:33:25 > 0:33:29China! How can you possibly argue there is an?China has taken more

0:33:29 > 0:33:34people out of poverty in the last 30 years than any country, resume,

0:33:34 > 0:33:39system, ever has -- how can you possibly argue there is not?All

0:33:39 > 0:33:43despots always argue, trying to distract your attention from the

0:33:43 > 0:33:46mountains of skulls behind them, their supposed economic success,

0:33:46 > 0:33:49which generally does not turn out to be as great as claimed. The Soviet

0:33:49 > 0:33:55Union was an enormous pile of rust by the time I lived there and was a

0:33:55 > 0:33:59complete catastrophe.Yes, that is why it fell down. But we are talking

0:33:59 > 0:34:04about the Revolution 100 years ago. Is it possible to separate the two

0:34:04 > 0:34:07events? A popular overthrowing of a government is perhaps different from

0:34:07 > 0:34:13the tyranny and terror that followed.It was not a popular

0:34:13 > 0:34:17overthrow. You sure this Eisenstein propaganda as if it were fact. What

0:34:17 > 0:34:22we see was a film made afterwards. What actually happened was a putsch

0:34:22 > 0:34:31in the middle of the night in which hardly anybody... Nobody has even

0:34:31 > 0:34:37mentioned...That German connection, a rather more important...Nobody

0:34:37 > 0:34:40has even mentioned during this year until now that there was a Russian

0:34:40 > 0:34:46Revolution. There were two. The first one was a genuine uprising,

0:34:46 > 0:34:49overthrowing the old regime, and I think we can all be glad of it. The

0:34:49 > 0:34:56second one was a cynical for -- foreign financed putsch and it does

0:34:56 > 0:34:59not deserve to be spoken out.Is that true, and Menshevik revolution

0:34:59 > 0:35:05would have done better than a Bolshevik one?It is not my business

0:35:05 > 0:35:11and entirely counterfactual fiction, if I may...Unlike how you open this

0:35:11 > 0:35:14discussion.That is the most important thing. If not for the

0:35:14 > 0:35:22Soviet Union, we wouldn't be here. Hetmyer might still, and most of the

0:35:22 > 0:35:27world, with its allies -- Adolph Hitler might have won and they make,

0:35:27 > 0:35:32and most of the world...The effect of Bolshevism and coming is on

0:35:32 > 0:35:35Europe was colossal.Let's bring it all a little bit more up-to-date.

0:35:35 > 0:35:41You were saying earlier you have never been a Leninist, although

0:35:41 > 0:35:47Peter Hitchens confesses he was at one time.Absolutely was a

0:35:47 > 0:35:54Trotskyist, and now nor the complete folly of that particular political

0:35:54 > 0:35:58disposition.John McDonnell in the Labour Party openly says he is a

0:35:58 > 0:36:03Trotskyist, a Leninist, is that a problem for the Labour Party?I

0:36:03 > 0:36:06would have thought, arts would be more respected now than he has been

0:36:06 > 0:36:12for quite some time as capitalism is collapsing around our ears. From

0:36:12 > 0:36:172008 the Economist itself, the bible of capitalism, began to resurrect

0:36:17 > 0:36:22Marxist economics and analysis, so I really don't think it is. Jeremy

0:36:22 > 0:36:32Corbyn is not a Marxist. It only took them four years, 54...It is

0:36:32 > 0:36:40not that.I think we are moving into an era where Governments like the

0:36:40 > 0:36:44Chinese Government are making plans, and are succeeding in implementing

0:36:44 > 0:36:50them, and thus transforming their position. China in 1949, and I don't

0:36:50 > 0:36:53need to tell you, was just about the most backward place you could

0:36:53 > 0:36:59possibly imagine. And from 1949 to now it has sold transforms that it

0:36:59 > 0:37:08is the world's biggest economy...We are in danger of getting sidetracked

0:37:08 > 0:37:12by China here.I have to put this point in. If China was backward in

0:37:12 > 0:37:171949 it was far more backward by the time Mao Zedong finished his great

0:37:17 > 0:37:20leap forward and starved millions of people to death in the period of

0:37:20 > 0:37:26economic lunacy. You just don't notice...What George was saying

0:37:26 > 0:37:29they are, and a sense certainly amongst younger voters in this

0:37:29 > 0:37:32country and others, where they are turning against capitalism, they

0:37:32 > 0:37:36don't think it has worked or delivered for them, that this kind

0:37:36 > 0:37:39of Marxist Leninist philosophy is becoming more popular?Let's hope

0:37:39 > 0:37:44not. The fact the current system is failing does not seem to recommend

0:37:44 > 0:37:49the Soviet system, which is demonstrably a failure, and even its

0:37:49 > 0:37:52own leaders admitted it failed and that is why they tried to reform it

0:37:52 > 0:37:55in the period I was there and why it collapsed. Whatever you might want

0:37:55 > 0:37:59to conclude from examining our position, the Soviet alternative is

0:37:59 > 0:38:02not the thing you want the dues. This was a long period of disaster,

0:38:02 > 0:38:06and I remember at the end of it watching in Moscow said a film which

0:38:06 > 0:38:13has never been shown here, and the title means approximately we can't

0:38:13 > 0:38:18go on living like this, and for the first time, the politburo told the

0:38:18 > 0:38:21truth about what life was like in the dreadful place and everyone in

0:38:21 > 0:38:24that cinema was weeping because finally they saw the truth being

0:38:24 > 0:38:27told about the dreadful anti-civilisation in which they had

0:38:27 > 0:38:31been taught to live for so long. The idea we should celebrate it revive

0:38:31 > 0:38:35it seems to me to be verging on the obscene.George, one interesting

0:38:35 > 0:38:40question about this of course, whilst there are events going on in

0:38:40 > 0:38:43London and across the UK to mark this centenary, it is not being

0:38:43 > 0:38:46celebrated in Russia.I was in Russia a couple of weeks ago. There

0:38:46 > 0:38:51is a big debate about whether it ought to be, and many people are

0:38:51 > 0:38:55celebrating it...Vladimir Putin is not. He would want to ignore it.But

0:38:55 > 0:39:00the Communist Party is the second biggest party in Russia. And it is

0:39:00 > 0:39:06the ruling party in China, which, with respect, is not a separate

0:39:06 > 0:39:09thing, because China is continuing the Russian Revolution and doing

0:39:09 > 0:39:14rather better at it than the Russians did, but there are many

0:39:14 > 0:39:18people, particularly older, that is true, who think that the era of the

0:39:18 > 0:39:23Soviet Union was better than the very cold period of capitalism that

0:39:23 > 0:39:31succeeded it. So half the world followed for a time the red flag,

0:39:31 > 0:39:38the red banner of Leninism. No one will do so again. Leninism of the

0:39:38 > 0:39:42kind that Peter used to proselytise is certainly not coming back, but

0:39:42 > 0:39:48Marxism is going to live on.Let's hope not.Thank you both, gentlemen,

0:39:48 > 0:39:49for coming on to speak about that.

0:39:49 > 0:39:50It's coming up to 11.40am.

0:39:50 > 0:39:52You're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:39:52 > 0:39:55Coming up on the programme:

0:39:55 > 0:39:58We've taken the moodbox to where else but bonfire night celebrations.

0:39:58 > 0:40:01We've taken the moodbox to where else but bonfire night celebrations?

0:40:01 > 0:40:03It wasn't just Westminster that had the fireworks this week.

0:40:03 > 0:40:05We're asking people in Guildford in Surrey,

0:40:05 > 0:40:06does Theresa May have control of her Government and her party?

0:40:14 > 0:40:20Hello, and a warm welcome to your local part of the show,

0:40:20 > 0:40:23just for those of you clever enough to have decided to live

0:40:23 > 0:40:24in the North-east and Cumbria.

0:40:24 > 0:40:26This weekend, why have the number of apprenticeships

0:40:26 > 0:40:27fallen so dramatically?

0:40:27 > 0:40:30Just when they seem to be needed the most.

0:40:30 > 0:40:31We report from Teesside.

0:40:31 > 0:40:34Talking about that and the latest on the controversy around fracking

0:40:34 > 0:40:38for shale gas in North Yorkshire are Conservative MP

0:40:38 > 0:40:40Kevin Hollinrake and the Labour MP for Blyth Valley,

0:40:40 > 0:40:41Ronnie Campbell.

0:40:41 > 0:40:42Welcome to you.

0:40:42 > 0:40:45We also have the Liberal Democrat leader, I will be talking

0:40:45 > 0:40:50to Sir Vince Cable about the Northern powerhouse.

0:40:50 > 0:40:54First though, it has been a tumultuous week at Westminster,

0:40:54 > 0:40:57with several of the North's MPs talking of the need to tackle

0:40:57 > 0:40:58a sexist and bullying culture there.

0:40:58 > 0:41:01Newcastle's Chi Onwurah told the House of Commons that both male

0:41:01 > 0:41:05and female researchers had been made to feel deeply uncomfortable in one

0:41:05 > 0:41:08of the Parliamentary bars but that the issue had not

0:41:08 > 0:41:18been taken seriously.

0:41:19 > 0:41:22I knew a number of researchers, male and female, made to feel deeply

0:41:22 > 0:41:24uncomfortable in the sports and social club here

0:41:24 > 0:41:25by members of Parliament.

0:41:25 > 0:41:30I was told that that happens in pubs all over the country.

0:41:30 > 0:41:32Would the Leader of the House confirm that the duty

0:41:32 > 0:41:36of care that we owe

0:41:36 > 0:41:38extends 24/7 and to every restaurant, bar in this place.

0:41:38 > 0:41:48Chi Onwurah in the House of Commons this week.

0:41:52 > 0:41:54What do we make of the events in Westminster, and does

0:41:54 > 0:41:55the culture need to change?

0:41:55 > 0:41:58Ronnie Campbell, you've been in politics for 30 years.

0:41:58 > 0:42:00Is there anything you've heard, with male behaviour

0:42:00 > 0:42:02towards women this week, that has anything surprised you?

0:42:02 > 0:42:05It hasn't really, because I think in the olden days it was more

0:42:05 > 0:42:09covered up, and I think with women coming in, the amount of women

0:42:09 > 0:42:11coming in, now I think it is coming to a head.

0:42:11 > 0:42:18It used to be like that at one time, I heard stories when we first got

0:42:18 > 0:42:20there and I saw things I shouldn't have been seeing.

0:42:20 > 0:42:24Of course, it did happen but hopefully we will get it sorted out.

0:42:24 > 0:42:26The leaders will get together and come up with a scheme

0:42:26 > 0:42:30where people can be proud to go on without complaints.

0:42:30 > 0:42:39Without naming names, what needs to happen to people?

0:42:39 > 0:42:41It depends, just touching a knee, I would not think

0:42:41 > 0:42:44that was a resigning offence but if you are groping somebody,

0:42:44 > 0:42:47or rape, it was even suggested this week that someone was raped.

0:42:47 > 0:42:55That is a sacking offence.

0:42:55 > 0:42:57Kevin Hollinrake, you joined the House of Commons more recently

0:42:57 > 0:42:58after a career in business.

0:42:58 > 0:43:04What do you make of the culture in Westminster, is it a problem?

0:43:04 > 0:43:06If there is sexual harassment, which clearly contravenes

0:43:06 > 0:43:08employment regulations, or sexual assault, it should be

0:43:08 > 0:43:13reported to relevant authorities and I think there is an issue

0:43:13 > 0:43:16in Parliament, that you work for an MP, or researchers can work

0:43:16 > 0:43:22for an MP and there is no really independent means of redress

0:43:22 > 0:43:24of grievances, and we would need to institute that in the House

0:43:24 > 0:43:27of Commons, so people feel if there is an issue,

0:43:27 > 0:43:30they've got somewhere independent they can go to.

0:43:30 > 0:43:40The word "Culture" is an overarching word, I do not think it is cultural.

0:43:41 > 0:43:43I don't think most people in Westminster are engaged

0:43:43 > 0:43:44in sexual harassment.

0:43:44 > 0:43:46There's always been the idea that there are men

0:43:46 > 0:43:48messing about, really?

0:43:48 > 0:43:56It's a gentleman 's club?

0:43:56 > 0:43:59It is changing, as the make-up of the House of Commons is changing

0:43:59 > 0:44:01but most members of Parliament are not sexual predators, and do not

0:44:02 > 0:44:08engage in sexual harassment.

0:44:08 > 0:44:10Were things acceptable, or appeared to be acceptable

0:44:10 > 0:44:11in the past, that are not now?

0:44:11 > 0:44:13Or are people calling this out now?

0:44:13 > 0:44:14It's a cultural change?

0:44:14 > 0:44:18In the past, it was swept under the carpet, it would go to the whips

0:44:18 > 0:44:21and would be swept under the carpet as they did not want the scandal.

0:44:21 > 0:44:23Usually it was shoved under the carpet.

0:44:23 > 0:44:26I can give at least two or three really bad stories in the early

0:44:26 > 0:44:33days, when it was dominated by men at that particular time,

0:44:33 > 0:44:40there were only half a dozen women on the benches in those days but now

0:44:40 > 0:44:42since more women are coming in, and more researchers

0:44:42 > 0:44:46coming in now as well, I've never seen so many researchers,

0:44:46 > 0:44:52because MPs have a lot of money to bring them in.

0:44:52 > 0:44:54All of these people have to be protected.

0:44:54 > 0:44:59We are not all predators, but those that are need to be dealt with.

0:44:59 > 0:45:01OK, the Liberal Democrat leader Vince Cable will be meeting

0:45:01 > 0:45:04the Prime Minister and other party leaders on Monday to discuss plans

0:45:04 > 0:45:06for a new independent grievance procedure for all staff

0:45:06 > 0:45:07working at Westminster.

0:45:07 > 0:45:09He is with me in the studio now.

0:45:09 > 0:45:12Sir Vince Cable, what do you make of all this

0:45:12 > 0:45:13and what needs to change?

0:45:13 > 0:45:21I think as you have just heard, we are talking about a wide

0:45:21 > 0:45:25spectrum of behaviour, there is something that is criminal

0:45:25 > 0:45:27and that is rape, it is a police matter.

0:45:27 > 0:45:29There are minor things and in between there is crass

0:45:29 > 0:45:32and nasty behaviour by men, usually, it can go the other

0:45:32 > 0:45:35way but in practice men are taking advantage of women

0:45:35 > 0:45:38with whom they have a good deal of power.

0:45:38 > 0:45:41In the past, this has either been tolerated or as Ronnie says,

0:45:41 > 0:45:51it has been swept under the carpet.

0:46:01 > 0:46:04It has happened in all parties, nobody is holier than thou in this

0:46:04 > 0:46:07area, and what we have come to is recognising that you've got

0:46:07 > 0:46:10to have a proper system and it is dealt with.

0:46:10 > 0:46:13We've had problems in the past, in my party we have set up

0:46:13 > 0:46:15an independent person, we call them a pastoral care

0:46:15 > 0:46:18officer, to hear cases of this kind and it should be common practice.

0:46:18 > 0:46:20Let's move onto other issues, as important as it is.

0:46:20 > 0:46:22You've looked at north-east businesses when you have

0:46:22 > 0:46:25visited here, and a lot as a member of government.

0:46:25 > 0:46:27What is your assessment of the state of the economy now

0:46:27 > 0:46:28as compared to then?

0:46:28 > 0:46:31It has recovered from the depths of the banking crisis.

0:46:31 > 0:46:33We were in a terrible state, businesses were going bust,

0:46:33 > 0:46:35they could not get back credit, deep recession, things

0:46:35 > 0:46:39are closer to how they were.

0:46:39 > 0:46:40And the north-east?

0:46:40 > 0:46:42The north-east has, historically, lagged behind the rest

0:46:42 > 0:46:43of the country in many ways.

0:46:43 > 0:46:45That is the legacy of manufacturing.

0:46:45 > 0:46:47At the moment, it is partly the uncertainty around Brexit,

0:46:47 > 0:46:49but things are weakening at the moment.

0:46:49 > 0:46:51Certainly business investment is not happening, companies are holding

0:46:51 > 0:46:55back investment decisions, with what will happen

0:46:55 > 0:46:58in future and I think things are a bit fragile,

0:46:58 > 0:46:59to be fair.

0:46:59 > 0:47:05One of the ideas, we are supposed to tackle this North-South divide

0:47:05 > 0:47:07but the Northern Powerhouse, which was born while you were

0:47:07 > 0:47:08still in government.

0:47:08 > 0:47:11A lot of businesses and politicians think it has done little.

0:47:11 > 0:47:15I think that is fair, to the extent to which it exists,

0:47:15 > 0:47:17it's largely the cross Pennine idea of bringing together Liverpool,

0:47:17 > 0:47:22Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds and Hull, it doesn't really

0:47:22 > 0:47:25encompass the north-east, it's been left out of the picture.

0:47:25 > 0:47:27What would you do differently with the Liberal Democrats

0:47:27 > 0:47:28to change that?

0:47:28 > 0:47:30I would do two things.

0:47:30 > 0:47:34I think we need a lot more public investment.

0:47:34 > 0:47:39I accept you need to have budget discipline that you need to treat

0:47:39 > 0:47:41capital investment separately to ordinary government spending.

0:47:41 > 0:47:44They could do more in freeing up the investment programme

0:47:44 > 0:47:52with Network Rail, that would be an obvious way of doing it.

0:47:52 > 0:47:55Or the other, the communities minister Sajid Javid

0:47:55 > 0:47:57has been advocating, the government borrowing to invest

0:47:57 > 0:47:59in affordable housing.

0:47:59 > 0:48:01We should be doing a lot more.

0:48:01 > 0:48:04Without the Treasury stopping it.

0:48:04 > 0:48:06The other point is having more power in the regions.

0:48:06 > 0:48:09You cannot run the country from Whitehall.

0:48:09 > 0:48:15Manchester, Birmingham, they've now got quite powerful deals.

0:48:15 > 0:48:17I heard you this week criticising quite strongly

0:48:17 > 0:48:18the north-east council, failing to come

0:48:18 > 0:48:20to a devolution deal.

0:48:20 > 0:48:23But they looked at the deal, they were supposed to accept it

0:48:23 > 0:48:26and they said is not good enough, are they supposed

0:48:26 > 0:48:29to accept anything?

0:48:29 > 0:48:31No, but the big conurbations, the guys who run Manchester

0:48:31 > 0:48:33and Birmingham, they are tough and they basically have more

0:48:33 > 0:48:40power and more control...

0:48:40 > 0:48:41It's a better deal?

0:48:41 > 0:48:43In the north-east, I think Teesside has gone its own way and you have no

0:48:52 > 0:48:54North and South Tyneside boroughs squabbling with each

0:48:54 > 0:48:56other and it does not create a good impression

0:48:56 > 0:48:58when you are negotiating with government.

0:48:58 > 0:49:00They've got to get their act together.

0:49:00 > 0:49:01Sir Vince Cable, thanks.

0:49:01 > 0:49:07Kevin Hollinrake, you raise the need for fair infrastructure spending

0:49:07 > 0:49:09between the regions, with the Prime Minister this week

0:49:09 > 0:49:10at Prime Minister's Questions.

0:49:10 > 0:49:12You accept that the government has a long way to go?

0:49:12 > 0:49:16It's been a problem for decades which is why I raised the point

0:49:16 > 0:49:18with the Prime Minister and have done many times before.

0:49:18 > 0:49:21We are putting more money in, 13 billion by 2020 and that will

0:49:21 > 0:49:22help things like trans-Pennine rail.

0:49:22 > 0:49:24Some of that is for potholes, I understand?

0:49:24 > 0:49:27Some of it is but hundreds more trains and more seats on these

0:49:27 > 0:49:30trains between Manchester and Leeds, these are good things and we need

0:49:30 > 0:49:34more money for our roads, railways, the digital networks and I think

0:49:34 > 0:49:37it is a time where we should separate the current spending

0:49:37 > 0:49:38from investment spending.

0:49:38 > 0:49:40I think it is a time to look...

0:49:40 > 0:49:43Does your government get that?

0:49:43 > 0:49:49The answer was positive from the Prime Minister on Wednesday.

0:49:49 > 0:49:52A 50% in the next four years, those are figures and facts,

0:49:52 > 0:49:56but this is not North versus South.

0:49:56 > 0:50:05For decades we have seen transport investment happening in London

0:50:05 > 0:50:08and the regions do not get the same deal - for every £35

0:50:08 > 0:50:10spent in Yorkshire, £100 per capita in London.

0:50:10 > 0:50:12We want to see a fairer distribution in future and this

0:50:12 > 0:50:14is what the Prime Minister agreed should happen.

0:50:14 > 0:50:17It is the conservatives who are delivering for devolution here.

0:50:17 > 0:50:19We have the mayor on Teesside, and there's a possibility

0:50:19 > 0:50:29of Newcastle and Northumberland getting this as well?

0:50:31 > 0:50:34Yes, that's what they say, but I think it is pie in the sky,

0:50:34 > 0:50:37it's what is on the table and we have not seen that yet.

0:50:37 > 0:50:39We are getting positive answers but, as you said before,

0:50:39 > 0:50:41that is all we are getting.

0:50:41 > 0:50:42Until I see the money...

0:50:42 > 0:50:47But some of the money being spent on new trains...

0:50:47 > 0:50:50I haven't got the line in yet, that's been on the go since I got

0:50:50 > 0:50:57elected 30 years ago.

0:50:57 > 0:51:00The link to the Metrocentre, that will cost quite a bit of money

0:51:00 > 0:51:02but I cannot see that happening in my lifetime,

0:51:02 > 0:51:03to tell you the truth.

0:51:03 > 0:51:06I've waited 30 years already and if devolution has to do that,

0:51:06 > 0:51:10that is fine but I still think it is pie in the sky.

0:51:10 > 0:51:13We can hope, we will see what happens in the budget.

0:51:13 > 0:51:15Staying with the economy, the government has made much

0:51:15 > 0:51:17of its success in creating new apprenticeships,

0:51:17 > 0:51:24helping many more young people in particular into work and giving

0:51:24 > 0:51:26them the high skill training they need.

0:51:26 > 0:51:28But it wasn't until this month where figures suggested the number

0:51:28 > 0:51:33of people starting apprenticeships had fallen dramatically.

0:51:33 > 0:51:35As David McMillan reports, that's been blamed upon the introduction

0:51:35 > 0:51:37of a new charge on large employers.

0:51:37 > 0:51:39Teesport, where the spirit of seafaring adventure meets

0:51:39 > 0:51:40meticulous industrial planning.

0:51:40 > 0:51:43For many plotting a career here, and apprenticeship

0:51:46 > 0:51:48For many plotting a career here, an apprenticeship

0:51:48 > 0:51:49is the way forward.

0:51:49 > 0:51:51I was always going to be hands-on, some sort of trade

0:51:51 > 0:51:54within the industry, it was electrical that caught my eye

0:51:54 > 0:51:55and I'm glad I picked that.

0:51:55 > 0:52:05I'm one of the young generation to come into the engineering world,

0:52:05 > 0:52:11whether it is civil, mechanical or electrical

0:52:11 > 0:52:15but if you don't get one

0:52:15 > 0:52:17you will struggle.

0:52:17 > 0:52:18It's important to get an apprenticeship.

0:52:18 > 0:52:20But apprenticeships have hit troubled waters.

0:52:20 > 0:52:22A new apprenticeship levy was introduced by the government

0:52:22 > 0:52:24this year in boosting funding and addressing the skills shortage

0:52:24 > 0:52:27but the number of people starting apprenticeships has fallen by nearly

0:52:27 > 0:52:30two thirds in the first three months since the assessment began.

0:52:30 > 0:52:32Labour say that the government has created an unnecessary problem

0:52:32 > 0:52:35which could have a big impact in places like the Tees Valley.

0:52:35 > 0:52:37I think what has happened is the confusion around

0:52:37 > 0:52:40the introduction of the scheme has a lot of people basically saying

0:52:40 > 0:52:45it is too difficult and I will not get involved at all.

0:52:45 > 0:52:48For employers paying the levy, they are using the cash to fund

0:52:48 > 0:52:50apprenticeships already in the programme, which is what you

0:52:50 > 0:52:52would expect for them to do.

0:52:52 > 0:52:53I think the difficulty comes with smaller companies

0:52:53 > 0:52:57who are not paying this levy, and they find for the first time

0:52:57 > 0:53:00the government is expecting them to pay some of the costs.

0:53:00 > 0:53:03The new system sees big companies ordered to pay

0:53:03 > 0:53:06a percentage of their wage bill on apprenticeships, but smaller

0:53:06 > 0:53:08firms are not forced to provide training.

0:53:08 > 0:53:11This Teesside Conservative accepts there have been teething troubles

0:53:11 > 0:53:13but believes that the levy will deliver in the long run.

0:53:13 > 0:53:18It's really important in training the next generation.

0:53:18 > 0:53:21By all means, we will try and find constructive solutions but that

0:53:21 > 0:53:23isn't why it matters so much.

0:53:23 > 0:53:33We have a bold ambition to deliver millions of apprenticeships

0:53:45 > 0:53:47apprenticeships make a difference to young people.

0:53:47 > 0:53:50I think there was a long-standing suspicion that they were not worth

0:53:50 > 0:53:51the paper they were written on.

0:53:51 > 0:53:52That has to change.

0:53:52 > 0:53:55Here, six new apprentices have started work at this car parts

0:53:55 > 0:53:56maker in Eaglescliffe.

0:53:56 > 0:53:57Hundreds applied for the jobs.

0:53:57 > 0:54:01The boss here says that the levy needs to be reformed so that smaller

0:54:01 > 0:54:04firms take more responsibility for meeting that demand.

0:54:04 > 0:54:06Unless there is an incentive for those smaller companies

0:54:06 > 0:54:16to also train apprentices, who constantly rely on taking

0:54:16 > 0:54:22from bigger companies or believe that they cannot train their own.

0:54:22 > 0:54:24The levy has had a difficult start.

0:54:24 > 0:54:27The future success will have a big bearing on the career prospects

0:54:27 > 0:54:28for many young Teessiders.

0:54:28 > 0:54:29David McMillan reporting.

0:54:29 > 0:54:31The government has been bullish in the past

0:54:31 > 0:54:33about the apprenticeships that it has created, here we have

0:54:33 > 0:54:34numbers plummeting?

0:54:34 > 0:54:37Let's look at the overall facts, 2.3 million apprenticeships

0:54:37 > 0:54:41between 2010-15, and ambition for 3 million between 2015-2020.

0:54:41 > 0:54:43We already have one million under our belts.

0:54:43 > 0:54:46It's a big change to the apprenticeship levy and it

0:54:46 > 0:54:48will take time for companies to get used to that.

0:54:48 > 0:54:49A drop of 60%...

0:54:49 > 0:54:52I think that is very short term, and selective evidence.

0:54:52 > 0:54:54The employers I speak to in my constituency are very much

0:54:54 > 0:54:57looking to take on more apprentices and put this money to one side,

0:54:57 > 0:55:00fill the pot up first before you use that money to train apprentices.

0:55:00 > 0:55:05I think that is a very short-term and misleading statistic.

0:55:05 > 0:55:08Some employers are struggling to understand the scheme.

0:55:08 > 0:55:11Some are not saying it is value for money, especially

0:55:11 > 0:55:17the smaller companies, they do not like the details,

0:55:17 > 0:55:21that apprentices have to be away for 20% of the time.

0:55:21 > 0:55:29Small employers are looking at free access for training,

0:55:29 > 0:55:31that's a fantastic scheme.

0:55:31 > 0:55:33For larger employers I can understand they are having

0:55:33 > 0:55:36to pay into the levy, and are taking time to adjust

0:55:36 > 0:55:37but they will adjust.

0:55:37 > 0:55:39I am seeing that, I've spoken to employers in my constituency

0:55:39 > 0:55:41and it makes sense.

0:55:41 > 0:55:44If you pay a levy, and you join back in terms

0:55:44 > 0:55:48of training your apprentices.

0:55:48 > 0:55:55This is about ensuring employers pay their fair share but it needs

0:55:55 > 0:56:01to take time to bed down?

0:56:01 > 0:56:05Yes, but I think that cut of 60%, that is down to austerity.

0:56:05 > 0:56:07And the apprenticeships and the skills people as well,

0:56:07 > 0:56:09they have all been cut.

0:56:09 > 0:56:18They have been cut to the bone.

0:56:18 > 0:56:22Well, it is the employers making these decisions, not the government.

0:56:22 > 0:56:25As far as we are concerned, all we are looking at is putting

0:56:25 > 0:56:29more money into the pot, taxpayers money, to get

0:56:29 > 0:56:32good quality apprentices.

0:56:32 > 0:56:35That hasn't come through yet, the good quality stuff.

0:56:35 > 0:56:38We want good quality apprentices and the only way we can do

0:56:38 > 0:56:41that is by putting the taxpayers money in and we

0:56:41 > 0:56:42suggested £1 billion.

0:56:42 > 0:56:48What about £2.5 billion going in a year by 2020?

0:56:48 > 0:56:50Some of it is taxpayers money and others from employers.

0:56:50 > 0:56:53We should be training our young local people in the UK to give them

0:56:53 > 0:56:55more skills to take advantage of the economic opportunities...

0:56:55 > 0:56:57One of the problems is getting the quality.

0:56:57 > 0:57:01Absolutely.

0:57:01 > 0:57:10We will have to leave.

0:57:10 > 0:57:14We will have to leave it there.

0:57:14 > 0:57:16We will see what happens when it transpires.

0:57:16 > 0:57:18That's have a look at the other stories making the political

0:57:18 > 0:57:20news this week in our 60 Second Round Up...

0:57:20 > 0:57:24It proves to be one of now ex-Defence Secretary Michael

0:57:24 > 0:57:27Fallon's last jobs as he visited the ANP Group's yard

0:57:27 > 0:57:28at South Tyneside on Monday.

0:57:28 > 0:57:30They hope to secure government contracts on five

0:57:30 > 0:57:31new Royal Navy frigates.

0:57:31 > 0:57:36Pregnant but Screwed, a new women's campaign group held

0:57:36 > 0:57:38a Halloween march in Newcastle, demanding better rights

0:57:38 > 0:57:39for working mothers.

0:57:39 > 0:57:42The UK's seven elected mayors, among them the Tees Valley's Ben Houchen,

0:57:42 > 0:57:45met in London for the first time wanting new powers over

0:57:45 > 0:57:46skills and taxation.

0:57:46 > 0:57:48I want more powers, I've been speaking to the central

0:57:48 > 0:57:50government about that, the Northern powers minister has

0:57:50 > 0:57:52said that they are open to a second devolution deal.

0:57:52 > 0:57:55Sunderland's main court building is more than a century old.

0:57:55 > 0:57:57Damp and neglected with poor access for disabled people,

0:57:57 > 0:58:04according to Wearside MP Bridget Philipson.

0:58:04 > 0:58:07She called on the Justice Minister Dominic Raab to take action.

0:58:07 > 0:58:09Finally, more details have been revealed by the government backed

0:58:09 > 0:58:16Great Exhibition of the North in June next year.

0:58:16 > 0:58:18There will be a giant fountain in the River Tyne,

0:58:18 > 0:58:21a new anthem of the North, and the return of Stevenson's

0:58:21 > 0:58:22rocket to the region.

0:58:22 > 0:58:24That's not our way of rolling stock on the railways anyway!

0:58:24 > 0:58:27The protests over fracking for shale gas in North Yorkshire have been

0:58:27 > 0:58:29growing in recent weeks, with more arrests among protesters

0:58:29 > 0:58:32and the police and crime commission for the county warning

0:58:32 > 0:58:34of the escalating costs of policing this site.

0:58:34 > 0:58:36There's no sign of the controversy going away.

0:58:36 > 0:58:38In 2016, North Yorkshire County Council gave planning permission

0:58:38 > 0:58:40for fracking at the site in Kirby Misperton.

0:58:40 > 0:58:42Friends of the Earth and Frack Free Ryedale went

0:58:42 > 0:58:50to the High Court to stop it but they lost.

0:58:50 > 0:58:52Protests on the site continue as preparations for drilling began.

0:58:52 > 0:58:55Today more than 20 protesters have been charged with offences including

0:58:55 > 0:58:56obstruction and assault.

0:58:56 > 0:58:58The anti-fracking protest cost North Yorkshire Police

0:58:58 > 0:59:02£100,000 in September on top of officer's wages.

0:59:02 > 0:59:04The county's Police and Crime Commissioner Julia Mulligan said

0:59:04 > 0:59:10it was likely to impact policing across the county.

0:59:10 > 0:59:12Kevin Hollinrake, you are the MP for Kirby Misperton.

0:59:12 > 0:59:15In the last week or so you have met protesters, I'm sure you have spoken

0:59:15 > 0:59:16to plenty of locals.

0:59:16 > 0:59:19What impact does this have on the small community

0:59:19 > 0:59:22in your constituency?

0:59:22 > 0:59:26It is very difficult, and I absolutely support the right of

0:59:26 > 0:59:30peaceful protest, and the protesters who protest peacefully. It's

0:59:30 > 0:59:35absolutely right, that there are some people in these protesters who

0:59:35 > 0:59:38go way beyond that. Locking themselves onto equipment or

0:59:38 > 0:59:43premises, or breaking into the site, when I was there, two protesters

0:59:43 > 0:59:47were lying in the road after locking themselves into a steel pipe full of

0:59:47 > 0:59:52asbestos. Six police officers were trying to chip away at it to release

0:59:52 > 0:59:57them without causing damage to themselves or the individuals. It

0:59:57 > 1:00:03blocked the road for six or seven hours. That kind of protest is

1:00:03 > 1:00:05entirely inappropriate.They are obviously trying to stop what is

1:00:05 > 1:00:11going on but given the cost to policing, the convenience to local

1:00:11 > 1:00:18policing, will any other community do this in future?It is right that

1:00:18 > 1:00:21we look to the central government to fund the cost of policing and make

1:00:21 > 1:00:26sure we have police officers in the streets of our communities... Will

1:00:26 > 1:00:31we do that? I have a meeting with the Police and Crime Commissioner, I

1:00:31 > 1:00:36absolutely think it should happen as there is no doubt that many of these

1:00:36 > 1:00:39protesters are connected to national campaigns rather than simply being

1:00:39 > 1:00:45local protesters.Ronnie Campbell, people of course have the right to

1:00:45 > 1:00:48protest, but this is cutting energy bills for individuals and

1:00:48 > 1:00:52businesses, fracking has to be allowed to take place, doesn't it?

1:00:52 > 1:00:57The High Court said it has to take Place and unfortunately that is the

1:00:57 > 1:01:07law. I don't really believe in fracking but let's see what happens.

1:01:07 > 1:01:12When that happens, and the water starts to colour...You were a coal

1:01:12 > 1:01:16miner, this is less environmentally destructive then coal mining?If

1:01:16 > 1:01:22there was a coal mine going there, there would still be objections.

1:01:22 > 1:01:25Either way, there will be objections. You would not open a new

1:01:25 > 1:01:30coal mine in this day and age. There would be protesters there. I'm a

1:01:30 > 1:01:38great believer in that. I want clean energy.But if the Labour Party

1:01:38 > 1:01:43wants to lower energy bills, this is one way of doing it?We had to see

1:01:43 > 1:01:47how it works out. We've heard stories of fracking and what has

1:01:47 > 1:01:51happened in Lancashire and in places, and we will have to wait and

1:01:51 > 1:01:59see. Kevin is going to be an experiment!I do not believe that

1:01:59 > 1:02:04there is a situation where water will be polluted or contaminated, we

1:02:04 > 1:02:06have independent monitoring, independent scientific monitoring,

1:02:06 > 1:02:11this is the writ is geological survey ensuring it is done properly.

1:02:11 > 1:02:15If it cannot be done Robbie I will oppose it but if it can, it makes

1:02:15 > 1:02:22more sense to employ something we can support.These protesters are

1:02:22 > 1:02:28determined and will not fade away, it's incredibly bad purposes for an

1:02:28 > 1:02:34area that needs tourism?As I say I do not feel that it is fair that

1:02:34 > 1:02:40people will interrupt other people's lives.But if they do, it's a bad

1:02:40 > 1:02:45image for the area.I do not think it is the right way to protest. I do

1:02:45 > 1:02:50not think that shale gas exploration will lead to contamination of water

1:02:50 > 1:02:56or fundamentally damage the countryside or changes anything more

1:02:56 > 1:03:01then this area.That's all from us, we are not here next Sunday. Time

1:03:01 > 1:03:06for a giant Sunday roast in bed,

1:03:07 > 1:03:08to support.

1:03:08 > 1:03:11All right, and at that point we have to end it there.

1:03:11 > 1:03:13My thanks to Rosena and Andrew, and with that it's back to Sarah.

1:03:13 > 1:03:15It's been a tricky week for Theresa May -

1:03:15 > 1:03:16again, you might think.

1:03:16 > 1:03:19She's lost a Cabinet minister and been forced into a reshuffle

1:03:19 > 1:03:22which did little for party unity, to say nothing of losing a Commons

1:03:22 > 1:03:25vote on Brexit and yet more reports of fireworks in Cabinet meetings -

1:03:25 > 1:03:26this time apparently over housing.

1:03:26 > 1:03:29So, is the Prime Minister's time in office going with a bang

1:03:29 > 1:03:30or more of a whimper?

1:03:30 > 1:03:32Well, we sent Ellie Price

1:03:32 > 1:03:33and the entirely unscientific Sunday Politics moodbox

1:03:33 > 1:03:36to Conservative-held Surrey, to find out.

1:03:36 > 1:03:39ALL:Three, two, one.

1:03:39 > 1:03:45# Ignite the light and let it shine...#

1:03:45 > 1:03:49It's a tale of lit fuses, plots, conspiracy, treachery,

1:03:49 > 1:03:52but enough of the recent goings on in the Conservative Party,

1:03:52 > 1:03:56it's firework night here in Guildford and we're asking,

1:03:56 > 1:03:59does Theresa May have control of her Government and her party?

1:03:59 > 1:04:00Yes or no?

1:04:00 > 1:04:05# Baby you're a firework...#

1:04:05 > 1:04:08With all the scandals in Government at the moment

1:04:08 > 1:04:11and Brexit seems to be dragging on a little bit longer than we thought.

1:04:11 > 1:04:15So, at the moment, I don't think she is in control.

1:04:17 > 1:04:20She's too many people sniping at her back, really.

1:04:20 > 1:04:22Do you think Theresa May's in control?

1:04:22 > 1:04:24I think she's in control.

1:04:24 > 1:04:26She's in a good job having a tough time.

1:04:26 > 1:04:27No, I don't.

1:04:27 > 1:04:28I think she's a mess.

1:04:28 > 1:04:31Even when you read her body language when she's being interviewed

1:04:31 > 1:04:33by people, she doesn't seem like she's in control.

1:04:33 > 1:04:38I think she has poor advisers.

1:04:40 > 1:04:44I'm going to put it in the "yes".

1:04:44 > 1:04:47I do think she's struggling but, I still hope, still think she has

1:04:47 > 1:04:50a bit of a grip on them.

1:04:50 > 1:04:52The Queen is England's role.

1:04:52 > 1:04:54It's her birth right.

1:04:54 > 1:04:58She is England's role of this country.

1:04:58 > 1:05:00I'm going to vote for Theresa May.

1:05:00 > 1:05:04I don't think there's anyone who could do a better job.

1:05:04 > 1:05:07I think she's had a bit of a poisoned chalice with Brexit but

1:05:07 > 1:05:09I think she could have done better.

1:05:09 > 1:05:11The money's not going to where it needs to go.

1:05:11 > 1:05:13I think she should resign, really.

1:05:13 > 1:05:15I feel a bit sorry for her, actually.

1:05:15 > 1:05:17I think she's been witch-hunted a little bit.

1:05:17 > 1:05:21She's doing her best.

1:05:21 > 1:05:23With everything that's going on with the Cabinet at the

1:05:23 > 1:05:26moment, I think the Conservative Party is in a real mess, actually.

1:05:26 > 1:05:29Very disappointed.

1:05:29 > 1:05:34Well, you get bickering in all parts not just the Conservative Party.

1:05:34 > 1:05:37And that's just sort of par for the course.

1:05:37 > 1:05:39But I'm sure she'll hold everybody together

1:05:39 > 1:05:42despite the current difficulties.

1:05:42 > 1:05:44The Tories weren't in control when they had the referendum

1:05:44 > 1:05:46in the first place for the euro.

1:05:46 > 1:05:49We've had two years of complete chaos.

1:05:49 > 1:05:53I don't see an end to it.

1:05:53 > 1:05:55Well, I seem to have acquired a few new friends.

1:05:55 > 1:05:58The oohs and ahs are over and so the moodbox

1:05:58 > 1:06:02and the result is...

1:06:02 > 1:06:03No.

1:06:03 > 1:06:05The majority of people here in Guildford

1:06:05 > 1:06:07don't think Theresa May is in control.

1:06:08 > 1:06:11CHEERING

1:06:11 > 1:06:14That was Ellie with the entirely unscientific moodbox, and thanks

1:06:14 > 1:06:20to Bushy Hill Junior School in Guildford for having her along.

1:06:20 > 1:06:25Let's put the Sorbol question to our panel. Equally unscientific but all

1:06:25 > 1:06:28seasoned Westminster watchers. Is Theresa May in control of her

1:06:28 > 1:06:33Government at the moment or is all of this sex harassment allegations

1:06:33 > 1:06:38swimming around loosening her grip? Depends what you mean by in control.

1:06:38 > 1:06:44All Prime Ministers have a degree of control. They retain the power much

1:06:44 > 1:06:49tat wrongage as we saw with her reshuffle. Didn't go down well with

1:06:49 > 1:06:54her MPs but she did it. You can't be fully in control of these situations

1:06:54 > 1:06:57in effectively what is a hung Parliament. If she won a land sheep

1:06:57 > 1:07:01in the election she would have the authority to do what she wanted. She

1:07:01 > 1:07:05could float over something like this. Stories like this, you could

1:07:05 > 1:07:09say she's perfectly suited for it, the vicar's daughter, the church

1:07:09 > 1:07:13goer, to sort it out. It is much more complicated than that. I don't

1:07:13 > 1:07:16think she will be able to get a full grip of it. There are some practical

1:07:16 > 1:07:21things that need to happen that will happen. I remember with back to

1:07:21 > 1:07:25basics and John Major, that equally vague scandal, what was back to

1:07:25 > 1:07:30basics about? It was still running months afterwards, stories about a

1:07:30 > 1:07:34minister having an affair. This is different. I can see it will be

1:07:34 > 1:07:39impossible for her to fully get to grips with it.Does it provide an

1:07:39 > 1:07:42opportunity for Theresa May to be seen to be taking really serious

1:07:42 > 1:07:46action, trying to root out a bad culture in Westminster and therefore

1:07:46 > 1:07:50get some political credit for it? That opportunity was available to

1:07:50 > 1:07:55her all of last week and she hasn't taken it. What's remarkable for me

1:07:55 > 1:07:59is the near complete breakdown in discipline in the higher ranks the

1:07:59 > 1:08:04Tory Party. It is extraordinary you have Cabinet level ministers who are

1:08:04 > 1:08:08not supporting their colleagues. Ministers and former ministers

1:08:08 > 1:08:11giving interviews in which they slag off their former colleagues. It is

1:08:11 > 1:08:16an absolute unholy mess. There is no sense that she is gripping this. Or

1:08:16 > 1:08:19has any particular solution. I think we can have a lot of sympathy for

1:08:19 > 1:08:24her in terms of finding a solution. How on earth do you grip a problem

1:08:24 > 1:08:32like this where you're talking about apparently an indefinite period of

1:08:32 > 1:08:35retrospective examination of potential faults. 15 years is no

1:08:35 > 1:08:38longer too historic for somebody to dredge up some small thing that may

1:08:38 > 1:08:43or may not have happened to them. It is very difficult for her. But she's

1:08:43 > 1:08:50being battered around by events. Where does this story go next?I

1:08:50 > 1:08:54think the whip's office on every party, Tories, Labour, Liberal

1:08:54 > 1:08:57Democrats, SNP all have their own whipping operations. That seems to

1:08:57 > 1:09:02be the place of it really. This is because, where do we draw the line?

1:09:02 > 1:09:06Going forward what mechanisms are put in place to top this helping

1:09:06 > 1:09:10again. To take allegations seriously, report them and

1:09:10 > 1:09:15investigate them independently. Or is there a bigger job to go back

1:09:15 > 1:09:19into the past retrospective, who knew what when as Nia said about

1:09:19 > 1:09:24Kelvin Hopkins. This is a Shadow Defence Secretary saying what did

1:09:24 > 1:09:29the Labour Party leader know about Kelvin Hopkins' allegations when he

1:09:29 > 1:09:33promoted him? Theresa May is unable to do the retrospective bit. She's

1:09:33 > 1:09:38simply too weak. I asked this of Number Ten last week. Why are you

1:09:38 > 1:09:42not more front-foot the on this. They said they would be if they

1:09:42 > 1:09:46possibly could be. She's running a minority Government. She cannot be

1:09:46 > 1:09:50seen to be going after a witch-hunt on her own people. So, I think this

1:09:50 > 1:09:59goes on. Enof thebly what the whips new -- inevitably what the whips

1:09:59 > 1:10:08knew will be parment. Amber Rudd did the same thing on Andrew Marr.They

1:10:08 > 1:10:13are being precise about the fact they didn't know anything. Sarah

1:10:13 > 1:10:17Newton said she heard no allegations about her flock, the the MPs she was

1:10:17 > 1:10:24in charge of rather than rumours about any other Tories.Amber Rudd

1:10:24 > 1:10:30say, I do not recognise the more lurid allegations. What about the

1:10:30 > 1:10:34less lurid once? So, this smells very, very bad indeed.Jeremy

1:10:34 > 1:10:40Corbyn's going to have to answer some of these questions as well?

1:10:40 > 1:10:44Yeah, but the whip's thing is a red herring. Their remit is to get the

1:10:44 > 1:10:47vote out for the Government fundamentally. Everybody knows that.

1:10:47 > 1:10:51They are not there, it is one of the problems. They are not there to be

1:10:51 > 1:10:55moral guides to these MPs. They are there to win votes for the

1:10:55 > 1:11:00Government or the opposition if that becomes possible. And deal brutally

1:11:00 > 1:11:03with MPs to make sure they get out and vote. Of course they knew

1:11:03 > 1:11:08virtually everything. But whether they were obliged to act as moral

1:11:08 > 1:11:12guard yawns in these situations, I don't think they were. It was not

1:11:12 > 1:11:16part of their job. Maybe you need moral guardians in there but not the

1:11:16 > 1:11:21whips.Normally, less than three-weeks out from a budget that's

1:11:21 > 1:11:24what we'd been talking about. Dominating our conversation. Given

1:11:24 > 1:11:27that's set for November 22nd, is that an opportunity for the

1:11:27 > 1:11:32Government to seize back control of the story?Philip Hammond may be

1:11:32 > 1:11:35glad we're not spending too much time talking about the budget. It

1:11:35 > 1:11:39should be an opportunity for the Government to seize the agenda, draw

1:11:39 > 1:11:44a line under all of this. I think one of the very difficult as pects

1:11:44 > 1:11:47of this so-called scandal for the Government to manage is knowing

1:11:47 > 1:11:51quite how long it will run. In the normal scheme of things they lose

1:11:51 > 1:11:56steam after a couple of weeks. But there are so many potential gayses

1:11:56 > 1:12:00that could come out, it might run longer than that. Rather like the

1:12:00 > 1:12:03expenses scandal. But there is an opportunity at the budget to reset

1:12:03 > 1:12:09the' again da. I just don't think Philip Hammond will take it. I think

1:12:09 > 1:12:12he's a very caution Chancellor. At the moment, there is a feeling

1:12:12 > 1:12:18Theresa May's leadership is so weak it will be too dangerous for them to

1:12:18 > 1:12:23do anything particularly dram attic why. I expect a steady as you go

1:12:23 > 1:12:27budget where they will be hoping not to make any mistakes.You say there

1:12:27 > 1:12:33is disagreement in the Cabinet about what should be in the budget?

1:12:33 > 1:12:38Disagreement between the Chancellor and the Prime Minister. The

1:12:38 > 1:12:43witch-hunt is hiding a huge story which is the incredible dysfunction

1:12:43 > 1:12:46between Number Ten and number 11. Philip Hammond and Theresa May can't

1:12:46 > 1:12:50bear to be in the same room with each other let alone agreeing what's

1:12:50 > 1:12:54in the budget. It is coming down to housing. Everybody agrees it has to

1:12:54 > 1:13:00be the centrepiece of the budget. They have to get more houses built.

1:13:00 > 1:13:06Philip Hammond wands that bee deregulation. Theresa May wants to

1:13:06 > 1:13:08are borrow up to 50 billion merchandise more for the Government

1:13:08 > 1:13:10to build for themselves.

1:13:10 > 1:13:11That's all for today.

1:13:11 > 1:13:13There's no Sunday Politics next weekend

1:13:13 > 1:13:15while Parliament is in recess,

1:13:15 > 1:13:18but I'll be back here at 11am on BBC One in two weeks' time.

1:13:18 > 1:13:23Until then, bye bye.