0:01:26 > 0:01:29In the north-west: The government plans to extend the role of
0:01:29 > 0:01:39voluntary services, but will it be the region's embattled employers
0:01:39 > 0:01:39
0:01:39 > 0:29:59Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1700 seconds
0:29:59 > 0:30:04Welcome to Sunday Politics in It is a New Year and a new
0:30:04 > 0:30:13programme, a new set, a new building, so welcome to it and this
0:30:13 > 0:30:15week's guests. We have two MPs, Debbie Abrahams from Alton East and
0:30:15 > 0:30:18Andrew Stevens for the Conservatives. They will be with us
0:30:18 > 0:30:28for the whole show to talk over the week's events.
0:30:28 > 0:30:38First, let's look at this week's big political story. George
0:30:38 > 0:30:38
0:30:38 > 0:30:42Osborne's de tell plan regarding But not everyone is convinced. Our
0:30:42 > 0:30:46political editor has been canvassing opinion.
0:30:46 > 0:30:51It is a part of the north-west that has already taken off, but the
0:30:51 > 0:30:56Chancellor avoided the champagne as he arrived at the launch of airport
0:30:56 > 0:31:00city. He saw the plans to attract new businesses, offices and hotels,
0:31:00 > 0:31:04and the decision to make it an enterprise zone has potentially
0:31:05 > 0:31:09given the project rocket boosters. Their paucity was something that
0:31:09 > 0:31:13was conceived before Enterprise zones, but it is equally the case
0:31:13 > 0:31:18that enterprise zones, but to clear the way they are structured, will
0:31:18 > 0:31:21accelerate Airport cities -- airports City. It will help
0:31:21 > 0:31:26enormously in bringing in investment that will help Greater
0:31:26 > 0:31:32Manchester economy as well. Plans for the wider enterprise zone are
0:31:32 > 0:31:36ambitious cousin --: 20,000 new jobs over the next 15 years.
0:31:36 > 0:31:41This car-park is where Airport City will be born. Offices and
0:31:41 > 0:31:45businesses will spring up here, creating new jobs. But is there a
0:31:45 > 0:31:51danger that what is good for those inside the zone will be bad for
0:31:51 > 0:31:56those outside it? The if you take Rochdale as an example, we have
0:31:56 > 0:31:59Kingsway business park, a very big project. That will not receive the
0:31:59 > 0:32:04sort of benefits that will be received in Renaissance to this
0:32:04 > 0:32:08enterprise zone. It creates competition between areas. Nearby
0:32:08 > 0:32:13with inshore is within the gates of the enterprise zone and people we
0:32:13 > 0:32:17met our work for they will not be locked out. It will get a lot of
0:32:17 > 0:32:23people in work so it has to be a good thing. It can only get better,
0:32:23 > 0:32:25they cannot get worse. Airport city looks set to be a winner. The
0:32:25 > 0:32:32challenge for greater Manta bass Greater Manchester is to ensure
0:32:32 > 0:32:37there are no losers. The plans for the Manchester
0:32:37 > 0:32:41Enterprise zones are parodying the best in the country. What is
0:32:41 > 0:32:46impressive is going with something that works already, the success of
0:32:46 > 0:32:50Manchester Airport, but connecting it with other things in the job
0:32:50 > 0:32:53community. It is good for the City, good for the local community as
0:32:54 > 0:32:57well, and it is a really good idea of national and local government
0:32:57 > 0:33:02can work together with the business community to make a success of
0:33:02 > 0:33:07something. I am not sure of how you will measure whether it has been a
0:33:07 > 0:33:13success or not. If it does attract thousands of new jobs, which I'm
0:33:13 > 0:33:17sure it will, how would you know it would not have done that anyway?
0:33:17 > 0:33:22think we have looked out what has worked in the past and what has not
0:33:22 > 0:33:27worked when it comes to ideas like enterprise zones. In the past,
0:33:27 > 0:33:31sometimes they have just moved one job from one part of a city to
0:33:31 > 0:33:37another. What you see here with the plans at the airport are for new
0:33:37 > 0:33:43business is coming to the city of Manchester, the attraction of new
0:33:43 > 0:33:46businesses from the UK and abroad, you are standing in the marketing
0:33:46 > 0:33:50suite, the room where they have got their plans they want to take to
0:33:50 > 0:33:54the rest of the world, that is one of the tests of whether this will
0:33:54 > 0:33:58be a success, whether we have got new companies that are not already
0:33:58 > 0:34:05in Manchester moving into Manchester. For companies that are
0:34:05 > 0:34:09already in Manchester, are they expanding? What is to stop someone
0:34:09 > 0:34:14in Greater Manchester saying, we will move over there and take
0:34:14 > 0:34:18advantage of the tax breaks? They are there to help, but that is not
0:34:18 > 0:34:24the only reason to be in an enterprise zone. There will be good
0:34:24 > 0:34:27transport links, good links. If you have a successful business here,
0:34:27 > 0:34:32you will go on carrying a successful business. We want new
0:34:32 > 0:34:36businesses. You were a small businessmen, that
0:34:36 > 0:34:40does not sound quite right, does it?! Which you have jumped at the
0:34:40 > 0:34:44chance of upsetting a business in one of these zones? They are a
0:34:44 > 0:34:48really good idea. Being a small businessman, it would not have been
0:34:48 > 0:34:52appropriate for my business to move there, but when you have got
0:34:52 > 0:34:58manufacturing firms or engineering firms and thinking about expanding
0:34:58 > 0:35:03abroad, now or with this option of enterprise zones are dotted across
0:35:03 > 0:35:06the North of England in particular, firms can really look at investing
0:35:06 > 0:35:14by a belief in the north-west rather than thinking, let's invest
0:35:14 > 0:35:18abroad. Isn't it a sideshow to think that these zones, we should
0:35:18 > 0:35:22be looking at regeneration everywhere? Absolutely. This is
0:35:23 > 0:35:29what the Labour Party believes. The North West Development Agency was
0:35:29 > 0:35:39very effective in terms of the regional strategy they had. I
0:35:39 > 0:35:39
0:35:39 > 0:35:43absolutely -- absolutely agree with you. I am asking you! In terms of
0:35:43 > 0:35:48the evidence around evidence sones, we know that 80 % of jobs are
0:35:48 > 0:35:54likely to be a likely to be displaced. They are not new jobs,
0:35:54 > 0:35:59that is a real concern. If we look at the 1990s when they were first
0:35:59 > 0:36:04tried here, but also in the US as well, the evidence is not good.
0:36:04 > 0:36:09have the 1980s as an example, but it is a factor idea originally. It
0:36:09 > 0:36:14did not really work then. You can say the Docklands was a success.
0:36:14 > 0:36:16That is a shining example of the success. But we need to ensure that
0:36:16 > 0:36:20that success is replicated particularly in the northern
0:36:20 > 0:36:24England because it is not just under the last Labour government,
0:36:24 > 0:36:29but for a long time the country has become more and more unbalanced
0:36:29 > 0:36:37with a north and south divide. More investment has gone into the south.
0:36:37 > 0:36:40Labour has criticised the Tories for concentrating activity in the
0:36:40 > 0:36:44south rather than spreading it across the country. Look at what we
0:36:44 > 0:36:49have here in the media city, the first showed in this newly
0:36:49 > 0:36:53developed site. This is just an example of the culture. There are
0:36:53 > 0:36:57loads of different ways that we have achieved growth with in
0:36:57 > 0:37:01different regions. Overall, they think this will be a success? It
0:37:01 > 0:37:05will not take jobs away from different areas in the north-west?
0:37:05 > 0:37:10Enterprise zones in particular airport city it will draw invest
0:37:10 > 0:37:16and into the UK. It shows we are open for business and want firms to
0:37:16 > 0:37:19invest it, we also want our big local firms. These are global
0:37:19 > 0:37:23companies and when they think about where they will invest, we want
0:37:23 > 0:37:26them to invest in Manchester and the north-west. Thank you it to you
0:37:26 > 0:37:29both. Over the past few months, employers
0:37:29 > 0:37:32have been giving the government their thoughts on the plans to
0:37:32 > 0:37:37extend the role of volunteer reserves in the armed forces. The
0:37:37 > 0:37:41consultation ends in two weeks. The plan is to increase the proportion
0:37:41 > 0:37:45of volunteers from under 20 to 30 % and increase their role in active
0:37:45 > 0:37:50service. The government argues it will be more efficient, but in
0:37:50 > 0:37:58these difficult times, how will be beaten's employers cope with their
0:37:58 > 0:38:02employees disappearing for months? On the ground and in the air,
0:38:02 > 0:38:09reservists have become an important part of the operation in am --
0:38:09 > 0:38:16Afghanistan. Part-time members of the army fill many roles. Being a
0:38:16 > 0:38:22member, you realise that you will be needed to mobilise at some point
0:38:22 > 0:38:26and give your support to the army. It is different when it is normal
0:38:26 > 0:38:31day-to-day life. It is definitely an experience, definitely worth
0:38:31 > 0:38:37having. In some areas, they are in charge. For the last three months,
0:38:37 > 0:38:45the hospital at Camp Bastion has been under the command of a
0:38:45 > 0:38:49hospital. The respect for the TA has grown immensely since
0:38:50 > 0:38:55operations in Iraq. We have brought a number of skills to the regular
0:38:55 > 0:38:59army. They have not got the right numbers any more so it is reservist
0:38:59 > 0:39:02lead at the moment. Units like this could play an even bigger role in
0:39:02 > 0:39:05the future. The government wants to adjust the
0:39:06 > 0:39:09balance between regulars and reservists to give part-time
0:39:09 > 0:39:13service men and women are a bigger role in the future. That would mean
0:39:13 > 0:39:19a cut in the biggest service, the army, with the number of full-time
0:39:19 > 0:39:22soldiers falling from 101,000 to 84,000 by 2020. The number of
0:39:22 > 0:39:27reservists would stay the same, but they would become a bigger
0:39:27 > 0:39:33proportion of the army. It the TA develops in the way we intend, we
0:39:33 > 0:39:38envisage a total force of around 120,000 in the ratio of 70-13, a
0:39:38 > 0:39:42regular to reserve. The change in number would be a company but extra
0:39:42 > 0:39:47training and support, plus a bigger role for volunteers dealing with
0:39:47 > 0:39:53emergencies in the UK. But some people think and increased reliance
0:39:53 > 0:39:58on reservists could create problems. At this software company, they are
0:39:58 > 0:40:04proud to support reservists. If deployed, their salary would be
0:40:04 > 0:40:08played -- paid by the MoD. A lot of the changes coming into place now
0:40:08 > 0:40:15do look like the government are trying to get businesses to foot
0:40:15 > 0:40:19the bill of the army. For us, that means they could phone us and say
0:40:19 > 0:40:23they are not coming into work. In our line of business, we have
0:40:23 > 0:40:26customers and so on, that could be quite devastating. A small
0:40:26 > 0:40:30companies can appeal if they object to their employee being sent away
0:40:30 > 0:40:36on deployment. If the deployment of that person is going to cause
0:40:36 > 0:40:40serious harm to their business, they can apply for a deferment or
0:40:40 > 0:40:46an exemption against that mobilisation the moment that they
0:40:46 > 0:40:50are granted fairly freely. If it were to be the case that far more
0:40:50 > 0:40:54reservists were called up, it may become difficult if everyone is
0:40:54 > 0:40:58applying for an exemption and everyone is granted one. One might
0:40:58 > 0:41:04see a hardening of attitudes by the MoD. The MoD says any cuts to the
0:41:04 > 0:41:14Red Army would be made after British troops withdraw from
0:41:14 > 0:41:14
0:41:14 > 0:41:18Afghanistan in 2015. We did ask for an interview with
0:41:18 > 0:41:22the MoD, but they have sent us a statement saying, we need to
0:41:22 > 0:41:32restructure our forces to ensure that they are sufficiently the
0:41:32 > 0:41:42
0:41:42 > 0:41:47flexible and adaptable to meet the The MoD could not join us, but we
0:41:48 > 0:41:51have two experts on this issue. Joining us from Plymouth is a
0:41:51 > 0:41:56commander from the UK National Defence Association who has
0:41:56 > 0:42:03campaigned against the cuts. Also with us is Anna -- a defence
0:42:03 > 0:42:09analysis begins the cuts are overdue. Why? I feel like the
0:42:09 > 0:42:13defence cuts like the commander does. We have some ill-balanced
0:42:13 > 0:42:17armed forces. Manpower is expensive and if we can find ways of getting
0:42:17 > 0:42:22more economic called Manpower, of using reservists, the army in
0:42:22 > 0:42:26particular, not much of it is on deployment at any one time. If,
0:42:26 > 0:42:30instead of readied has been kept in barracks, there are people who can
0:42:30 > 0:42:35work in civil society in the time when they are at home, in an army
0:42:35 > 0:42:42publication decency, -- recently, it was said that one regular, three
0:42:42 > 0:42:47reservists. Is it realistic to have part-time soldiers to be
0:42:47 > 0:42:51sufficiently trained up as they would get full-time counterparts?
0:42:51 > 0:42:54Even for timed ones go through tremendous training. 40 % of the
0:42:54 > 0:43:00army is involved in training. Even the regulars have to be trained to
0:43:00 > 0:43:03go to war. There are examples in recent complex -- conflicts are
0:43:03 > 0:43:09people who were trained up and went out there and were successful. They
0:43:09 > 0:43:13can be done. Commander, he recently signed a letter, along with other
0:43:13 > 0:43:17colleagues from the armed forces, very much against these proposals
0:43:17 > 0:43:24on the cards. What is your main problem, is it that you think that
0:43:24 > 0:43:31these reservists are not up to the job of the frontline service?
0:43:31 > 0:43:36answer is yes and no. The reservists and beat TA have done a
0:43:36 > 0:43:41brilliant job in Afghanistan and Iraq, but, and it is a huge but,
0:43:41 > 0:43:45they cannot compensate for the ecstasies, the long training of the
0:43:46 > 0:43:49professionals. -- expertise. The implication of the earlier
0:43:49 > 0:43:57statement that it will be two reservists to one professional and
0:43:57 > 0:44:05we will have 130,000, X number will be TA, that will not work. It
0:44:05 > 0:44:08really will not work. You cannot build an amateur, volunteer, with
0:44:08 > 0:44:15the best of intentions, who have done a good job, but it takes time
0:44:15 > 0:44:20and effort. Eric has just said that it takes an awful lot of training
0:44:20 > 0:44:26for the professional. They are training all the time. The TA
0:44:26 > 0:44:33cannot just pick it up. What the government must not do is try and
0:44:33 > 0:44:40substitute TA for regular. The army is going down to 84, I will wager
0:44:40 > 0:44:46anything it will go down to 80,000. That is too few. BT A, at the
0:44:46 > 0:44:53moment, would only have about 1,500 immediately trained men to go out.
0:44:53 > 0:44:58OK. We must not compare the way the TA is now with how we will be part
0:44:58 > 0:45:02of this whole concept by 2020. BTA has suffered considerably. The
0:45:02 > 0:45:06regular army has ransacked them for money and resources. They are in a
0:45:06 > 0:45:13pretty poor state. For a year in 29, they were going to have no money
0:45:13 > 0:45:23for training at all. The cuts are not coming in so presumably none of
0:45:23 > 0:45:29this can happen? I think there ought to be, in the 2015 Review,...
0:45:29 > 0:45:33The last one left an unbalanced overall force. The Navy and the RAF,
0:45:33 > 0:45:37which arguably Britain needs more, suffered very severely. The army
0:45:37 > 0:45:41wrap itself in the Afghan blanket. Commander, that argument that the
0:45:41 > 0:45:48other forces have missed out for the sake of the army, what is your
0:45:48 > 0:45:55opinion? This has got to be done on a dry service basis. The army and
0:45:55 > 0:46:01navy must be reviewed collectively. If we start infighting, which has -
0:46:01 > 0:46:05- which is happening, the only people the benefit will be the
0:46:05 > 0:46:09Treasury. You cannot substitute TA for professional on a normal basis.
0:46:09 > 0:46:19May I make the point that the experts who know what they are
0:46:19 > 0:46:20
0:46:20 > 0:46:25talking about, and we had a Colonel -- a few colonels, they all saying
0:46:25 > 0:46:30do not sacrifice the army for the TA. I will have to -- to stop you
0:46:30 > 0:46:34But Bentley for joining us. This is very much an issue for small
0:46:34 > 0:46:39businesses. We have not mention that, but they will stop got out
0:46:39 > 0:46:45their employees on the from mine. think lots of businesses across the
0:46:45 > 0:46:49north-west are really proud to have employees who are members of the
0:46:49 > 0:46:59armed forces. The skills that they learn when they are on training are
0:46:59 > 0:47:00
0:47:00 > 0:47:04transferable to the workplace. Many employers will be encouraged.
0:47:04 > 0:47:10are concerned about the potential about there being more than 7,000
0:47:10 > 0:47:16cuts. We would need some guarantees. The TA cannot, as the commander
0:47:16 > 0:47:23said, a substitute for the regulars. They need to be integrate --
0:47:23 > 0:47:33integrated. Thank you very much. Now it is time to look at what else
0:47:33 > 0:47:33
0:47:33 > 0:47:37The north-west got that much nearer to London this week after the
0:47:37 > 0:47:41government gave the green light to the first stage of the 80 s to
0:47:41 > 0:47:46high-speed rail project. It will cut some journey times to just
0:47:46 > 0:47:49under an hour, but critics feel that the scheme will carve up the
0:47:49 > 0:47:54countryside and reduce funding other services. A damning report
0:47:54 > 0:47:59has found that Wirral council over charged 16 adults with Langer --
0:47:59 > 0:48:03learning that the bodies further nine years. There has been a call
0:48:03 > 0:48:07for senior officers to resign. The whistle Blower said that he was
0:48:07 > 0:48:10given a pay out and asked to keep quiet, but he refused. When you see
0:48:10 > 0:48:19that things happening to good people, you have no choice but to
0:48:19 > 0:48:24respond. At the British Geological Society,
0:48:24 > 0:48:34they have been conclusions that it is extremely unlikely that drilling
0:48:34 > 0:48:38
0:48:38 > 0:48:44for Shell Gas will lead to water Before we go, we should mention
0:48:44 > 0:48:47that some good news for you. David Cameron backed York changed for
0:48:47 > 0:48:52victims to challenge bail conditions. This has come in
0:48:52 > 0:48:55because of a recent murder. Very good news, I was delighted when I
0:48:56 > 0:48:59asked a question at delighted -- Prime Minister's Questions to get
0:48:59 > 0:49:05such a positive response. The parents were in the gallery to hear
0:49:05 > 0:49:11the news and it was fantastic. We should mention it is exactly one
0:49:11 > 0:49:15year since he became an MP! How has it been? It has been wonderful. I
0:49:15 > 0:49:20have thoroughly enjoyed it. Even in opposition, you can make a
0:49:20 > 0:49:23difference and that is what I have tried to do. And thinking about the
0:49:23 > 0:49:26health bill and now it is in the Lords but there is a chance to stop
0:49:26 > 0:49:31this dreadful legislation going before stock thank you for joining