:01:22. > :01:24.And in the North West: Salford says yes to an elected
:01:24. > :01:34.mayor, but it looks like Liverpudlians will not get any say
:01:34. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :35:18.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2023 seconds
:35:18. > :35:21.in the matter at all. We bring you Welcome to the Sunday Politics in
:35:22. > :35:25.the North West. In the next 20 minutes:
:35:25. > :35:30.Salford says yes to an elected mayor, but it looks like voters in
:35:30. > :35:34.Liverpool will not even get asked. We talk to the city's leader.
:35:34. > :35:40.A big week in local politics here, then. Before we get to that, let's
:35:40. > :35:43.meet this week's MPs. Today, we welcome the Labour MP for
:35:43. > :35:47.Rochdale, Simon Danzcuk, and the Conservatives MP for Morecambe and
:35:47. > :35:56.Lunesdale, David Morris. David, I gather you have been flirting with
:35:56. > :36:01.a former career this week. Yes, I have written a song before the
:36:01. > :36:08.local community. It has been a reawakening of warm up former
:36:08. > :36:13.career at that I had. You used to write songs for Rick Astley. I did.
:36:13. > :36:22.25 years ago. I'm a politician now, there is that turn up for the
:36:22. > :36:27.book's! Any artistic ambitions yourself, Simon? Not really. I'm
:36:27. > :36:33.not good in terms of artistic endeavours. Just before the general
:36:33. > :36:43.election, I did at turn-on karaoke and I think that cost me about 50
:36:43. > :36:51.
:36:51. > :36:54.volts, so best avoided! Glee will speak you in a minute.
:36:54. > :36:57.It's time to ask how should our councils be run? On Thursday, there
:36:57. > :36:59.was a referendum in Salford where people voted to get a directly
:36:59. > :37:03.elected mayor. But in Liverpool, the council leader has decided
:37:03. > :37:06.there is no need for a referendum and plans to switch to a mayor
:37:06. > :37:08.through a special council meeting. I have been to both cities to
:37:08. > :37:14.consider the contrast. Campaigners triggered a referendum
:37:14. > :37:19.in Salford. But there was no rush to the polls. Turnout was just 18%.
:37:19. > :37:29.The number of votes cast in favour of guests was 17,000.
:37:29. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:32.That was 56% of voters opted for a mayor. You are backtracking.
:37:32. > :37:35.least it stirred up passions on the council. The existing system of a
:37:35. > :37:41.council leader elected by fellow councillors rather than voters will
:37:41. > :37:46.soon end. I am a democrat and I made it clear up my preference for
:37:46. > :37:50.the other system. But, in May, I will be making it clear that my
:37:50. > :38:00.intention, if I was lucky enough to be the candidate, would be to make
:38:00. > :38:02.
:38:02. > :38:05.the system work. Campaigners are hoping for more radical change.
:38:05. > :38:10.Hopefully this will be a beacon to other cities that if you commit and
:38:10. > :38:15.vote, you can make the change in inner-city is run. Here, the Labour
:38:15. > :38:20.Party is planning to hold a vote in council. Opponents say that is not
:38:20. > :38:24.right. You have to give people a chance to care. The Government has
:38:24. > :38:31.suggested we have this referendum. It is the right people to say he
:38:31. > :38:35.they are governed. And we found quite a few people who do want a
:38:35. > :38:38.say. It is their city, so they should have the right to choose.
:38:38. > :38:42.They it has not been picked to was, but I believe we should have the
:38:42. > :38:46.vote. Joe Landers and should know better because he has always been
:38:46. > :38:52.for Liverpool and all this and he has been decision that seems to be
:38:52. > :38:56.just for himself. But Joe Anderson has also seized the political
:38:56. > :39:01.initiative. Joining me now from Liverpool is
:39:01. > :39:04.the Labour leader of the city council, Joe Anderson. You heard in
:39:04. > :39:08.that report that there are certainly a number of people of
:39:09. > :39:16.Liverpool who would like icy on this. Yes, well, this is not about
:39:16. > :39:20.to Jo Anderson, this the but the opportunity for Liverpool. -- this
:39:20. > :39:25.is about the opportunity for Liverpool. I simply said to
:39:25. > :39:32.government, what difference does the city media make in terms of a
:39:32. > :39:40.or Conservative government players back point of view. -- Conservative
:39:40. > :39:43.Government's point of view. This is a very big decision for the council
:39:43. > :39:48.and am wondering why you're going making it rather than allowing the
:39:48. > :39:56.city to decide as they have in Salford. It is a big decision for
:39:56. > :39:59.the whole of the city. We have no associated a fund for the city, we
:39:59. > :40:03.have Nicola seated significant powers. I would go out and campaign
:40:03. > :40:11.in a referendum if we had one, asking for people to vote for that
:40:11. > :40:19.and I guess that they would support it. Rather than waste money, which
:40:19. > :40:26.does get on with this now. What does accept the money, the powers,
:40:26. > :40:32.-- let us accept the money, the powers. It makes a significant
:40:32. > :40:37.difference. Oh why did you change your mind on this issue? I am
:40:37. > :40:42.looking back at Adam previous interview that you gave. This is a
:40:42. > :40:45.quote. You said it is something I have never aspired to be. The
:40:45. > :40:49.powers held by the leader of the Council are significantly greater
:40:50. > :40:54.than what used to be. It in the powers that I hold a quite
:40:54. > :40:57.significant and are enough. Why did you change your mind?
:40:57. > :41:02.circumstances have changed. We have been negotiating with government
:41:02. > :41:06.for last four months. I asked them what the difference was. I was
:41:06. > :41:14.right to make that statement at that time, because there was no
:41:14. > :41:18.difference. Now, there are �134 million difference. Other powers
:41:18. > :41:24.not enough? I he can the poor has been a fit we have negotiated
:41:24. > :41:33.enough power as -- new powers? how can the powers be enough that
:41:33. > :41:40.we have had to negotiate new powers? Of course, things had
:41:40. > :41:48.changed. They are not the same and that is why we have negotiated with
:41:48. > :41:53.government. Is there actually a deal in place, because we see this
:41:53. > :41:58.letter that has been leaked from the Nick Clegg, saying it is
:41:58. > :42:01.important to clarify that no deal, including Liverpool's proposal is
:42:01. > :42:06.contingent on having an elected mayor. You could have these powers
:42:06. > :42:13.if you were going for a mayor or not. Nick Clegg also told us they
:42:13. > :42:17.would be no increase in tuition fees. If he gives us an assurance,
:42:17. > :42:27.but we can have this money, plus the money that we have Nicolas
:42:27. > :42:33.
:42:33. > :42:43.Smith, we will say OK. The fact is, Nick Clegg cannot do this. But you
:42:43. > :42:43.
:42:43. > :42:48.for talking to us. This is Conservative policy. The want to
:42:48. > :42:52.see more of these measures? Personally, I do not have an
:42:52. > :42:57.opinion one way or another in terms of a referendum. As long as we have
:42:57. > :43:02.more democracy and more public say in her local services are run
:43:02. > :43:09.although we have to Westminster. is a curious situation, from
:43:09. > :43:17.Labour's point of view. What Labour government had previously and the
:43:17. > :43:23.view is now is that are directly elected mayors are the right thing.
:43:23. > :43:31.Why are the right in Liverpool and not Salford? I think Joe Anderson
:43:31. > :43:38.is doing a good job. What did not mention is that all the
:43:38. > :43:44.consultation done in years gone by clearly showed that they were in
:43:44. > :43:48.favour of a directly at elected mayor for Liverpool. It was not a
:43:48. > :43:52.referendum, but it showed that there was an appetite. Compare that
:43:52. > :43:59.to Manchester, a previous consultation showed that there was
:43:59. > :44:02.no appetite for a directly elected mayor.
:44:02. > :44:10.Now, how important is your schooling on your future life
:44:10. > :44:13.chances? It is sometimes thought that an education at an independent
:44:13. > :44:16.school, where parents pay fees, can open doors which would otherwise
:44:16. > :44:19.remain closed. But is it fair that very bright, but less well off
:44:20. > :44:22.pupils do not get the same chance? In the past, governments have run
:44:22. > :44:25.assisted places schemes, giving grants to those pupils. They were
:44:25. > :44:30.last abolished in 1997. But now one charity wants to bring them back.
:44:30. > :44:36.Naomi Cornwell reports. It's one of the most famous schools
:44:36. > :44:46.in the country. Entry to Manchester Grammar is fiercely competitive.
:44:46. > :44:48.
:44:48. > :44:51.It's one of the most famous schools in the country. But for years it
:44:51. > :44:54.has been proud of its efforts to take in pupils from every
:44:54. > :45:04.background. We have had a long-term commitment to educating pooper
:45:04. > :45:04.
:45:04. > :45:07.children. -- poorer. From 1945, it was one of around 200 grammar
:45:07. > :45:10.schools that received a direct grant from the Government which
:45:10. > :45:12.guaranteed that a quarter of their places were given free to talented
:45:12. > :45:15.scholarship children. The scheme was cut when Labour returned to
:45:15. > :45:18.power in the 1970s, but a few years later Margaret Thatcher
:45:18. > :45:21.reintroduced a similar scheme, only to be abolished again by Labour in
:45:21. > :45:23.1997. Fast forward 15 years, and there are new calls for the
:45:23. > :45:26.Government to fund places at independent schools for bright
:45:26. > :45:29.children from poorer families. With free places for those whose parents
:45:29. > :45:36.are below a certain income, then fees increasing according to a
:45:36. > :45:40.family's means. When you look at our universities and or professions,
:45:40. > :45:45.students from other independent schools tend to dominate. We want
:45:45. > :45:49.those positions, some of them to go to people from less privileged
:45:49. > :45:52.backgrounds. The Sutton Trust would like the Government to meet half
:45:52. > :45:55.the cost of the scheme while the schools or charitable foundations
:45:55. > :45:59.pay for the rest. And this school wants to be part of it. Our problem
:45:59. > :46:05.is that for every boy that we accept, and get a bursary to, there
:46:05. > :46:10.is another boy who is perfectly capable of walking in the way that
:46:10. > :46:17.we need our boys to work, for them to flourish, but we have to turn
:46:17. > :46:27.away. These are children from poorer families who want to be here,
:46:27. > :46:30.
:46:30. > :46:35.who are capable of keen year, but cannot afford it. It is an idea the
:46:35. > :46:38.Sutton Trust has already trialed at this school in Liverpool. Between
:46:38. > :46:40.2000 and 2007 entry to Belvedere School was based on merit alone.
:46:40. > :46:43.Previously, few pupils had come from surrounding Toxteth, a
:46:43. > :46:46.relatively disadvantaged area. But under the scheme, the social mix
:46:46. > :46:49.became more diverse, with 30% of pupils on free places, 40% paying
:46:49. > :46:51.partial fees and only 30% paying full fees. A former head girl
:46:51. > :46:54.remembers the benefits of having friends from different backgrounds.
:46:54. > :46:58.Looking back, you can see that we had a variety of people from lots
:46:58. > :47:02.of different backgrounds and I think that added to the school and
:47:02. > :47:10.was a positive thing. It meant that French it for form that might not
:47:10. > :47:13.have otherwise. It has now changed from an independent school to an
:47:13. > :47:16.academy. But a study by the University of Buckingham found that
:47:16. > :47:19.the scheme had been generally successful, with the first group of
:47:19. > :47:22.girls to reach GCSE age gaining the highest results ever seen at the
:47:22. > :47:25.school. But one major teaching union is against the idea and
:47:25. > :47:28.thinks the money could be better spent in the state system. For a
:47:28. > :47:31.start, it is interesting this has been put forward at the time of
:47:31. > :47:35.recession when a lot of people are taking their children out of
:47:35. > :47:40.private schools because they cannot afford them. It seems a little bit
:47:40. > :47:44.of a coincidence that this has, but at this time. The reality is that
:47:44. > :47:51.this is money that is being taken away from comprehensive schools
:47:51. > :47:55.that are presently using it and is yet another step in the at up --
:47:55. > :47:58.direction of dismantling the state education system. The Sutton Trust
:47:58. > :48:01.has received cross party support for its research into how to widen
:48:01. > :48:03.social mobility. But the Government's only official line on
:48:03. > :48:05.the proposals is that it values all contributions to the education
:48:05. > :48:09.debate. So, can this kind of scheme assist
:48:09. > :48:11.social mobility? Well, joining me now is someone who certainly thinks
:48:11. > :48:16.so. John Denny is the chief executive of Cosmopolitan Housing
:48:16. > :48:20.Association. They have estates in Cheshire and Liverpool and they are
:48:20. > :48:27.offering to pay for one boy from one of those estates to go to Eton.
:48:27. > :48:31.So why are you doing this? I've been the direct answer to that is,
:48:31. > :48:35.why not? If you look at some of the estates that my organisation and
:48:36. > :48:41.others walking, no matter where you come from on the education debate,
:48:41. > :48:51.there is a genuine lack of aspiration and I wonder where that
:48:51. > :48:52.
:48:52. > :48:58.lack creeps in sometimes. He -- where that -- where it that lack
:48:58. > :49:04.creeps in sometimes. Aspiration is a good thing, but it seems extreme
:49:04. > :49:10.that they have to go all the way to Eton. Like most things, if you look
:49:10. > :49:13.at the total package, the work that the group does, we had schemes on a
:49:13. > :49:17.drug rehabilitation on Criminal defenders, we create more
:49:17. > :49:25.apprentices in Merseyside and Cheshire than most other
:49:25. > :49:30.organisations put together, but equally, on our estate, there are
:49:30. > :49:33.children at that with the support and help can achieve great things
:49:33. > :49:39.and I do not been there should be taken away by anyone. My job as a
:49:39. > :49:44.chief executive is to weave my way through some of these politics, but
:49:44. > :49:48.introduce the seeds of aspiration in a positive way. Has there been
:49:48. > :49:52.much interest in its offer? They are has been an awful lot, at some
:49:52. > :50:00.of that good, some of the bat. If you sit in of the grip of resident
:50:00. > :50:05.in Merseyside or Cheshire. -- if you sit with a group of resident in
:50:05. > :50:10.Merseyside and Cheshire, the initially react saying that it is
:50:10. > :50:17.not for the likes of them. I think it is for the likes of them.
:50:17. > :50:27.Ultimately, most people turn around and say, yes, this is about having
:50:27. > :50:28.
:50:28. > :50:35.faith in that the children on their estates. What do you think? I think
:50:35. > :50:40.it is good. It sounds a bit like a gimmick, to pet project. I do not
:50:40. > :50:43.have a problem with it. What are we to see is the Government putting
:50:43. > :50:48.money into state education so that more children have a better chance
:50:48. > :50:52.of getting on in terms of aspirations and a meeting their
:50:52. > :51:02.desired aspirations and getting on in life. That is not happening at
:51:02. > :51:05.
:51:05. > :51:08.the moment. David Morris? I think it is marvellous what is going on.
:51:08. > :51:12.I think the assisted places scheme should never have been scrapped and
:51:12. > :51:19.the first place and I hope the government look at the way of
:51:19. > :51:23.bringing some kind of a scheme back. The thing that would be better?
:51:23. > :51:29.Ultimately, what you're saying is that local schools are not good
:51:29. > :51:32.enough. I am not saying that. I think the system lets kids down. If
:51:33. > :51:37.you are born on one other estates, the chances of you succeeding are
:51:37. > :51:40.considerably less than someone being born at two or three miles
:51:40. > :51:45.away. That link between affluence and education has never been broken
:51:45. > :51:49.and will not be broken. It we all worked towards the perfect model
:51:49. > :51:54.that takes place in Sweden, with equitable access to all forms of
:51:54. > :51:57.education, I would love to get to that. The reality of that taking
:51:58. > :52:03.place and where we're waiting for that to happen, from my perspective,
:52:03. > :52:11.this could that are not realising their potential, but is a -- it is
:52:11. > :52:18.too high a price to pay. It should be about creating a more equal
:52:18. > :52:22.society. We were moving towards that with the Labour government.
:52:22. > :52:28.But social mobility went down in the Labour government. In terms of
:52:28. > :52:32.getting people free school meals, the gap narrowed. In terms of
:52:32. > :52:40.aspirations, this is about people having the opportunity to get on.
:52:40. > :52:44.One of the big problems is that the government are not focusing on
:52:44. > :52:52.employment. We have mass unemployment yet again. That would
:52:52. > :52:57.put more children on to free school meals. I think diversity in
:52:57. > :53:02.education, the Government is addressing that. A school in my
:53:02. > :53:07.constituency closed down and I had a direct input in getting it
:53:07. > :53:17.reopened again. It was dormant, closed, and sealed. It is now
:53:17. > :53:18.
:53:18. > :53:23.reopened. That is proof and the pudding and -- that is the proof in
:53:23. > :53:29.the pudding. Now it's time for our 60 second
:53:29. > :53:31.roundup of the week's events, with Gill Dummigan.
:53:31. > :53:34.It has been revealed that Liverpool's world famous waterfront
:53:34. > :53:37.could be in danger of losing its world heritage status because of a
:53:37. > :53:46.�5.5 billion planning application. UNESCO has urged the council and
:53:46. > :53:48.developers to go back to the drawing board.
:53:48. > :53:51.Backers for a military-style school run by former soldiers in Oldham
:53:51. > :53:54.say they have found potential premises. The Phoenix, as it would
:53:54. > :53:57.be called, could open as one of the Government's new free schools.
:53:57. > :54:00.Salford City Council is calling for payday lenders to be banned, or
:54:00. > :54:06.have their interest rates capped. They say people often do not
:54:06. > :54:11.realise what they are signing up to. A buyer really believe that someone
:54:11. > :54:17.will commit suicide as a result of borrowing this type of money.
:54:17. > :54:19.believe. Back in Liverpool again and city
:54:19. > :54:22.council leaders want a club that hosted the British National Party's
:54:22. > :54:24.annual conference to have its licence revoked. There were
:54:24. > :54:34.protests outside the Cricketers Arms in Wavertree last October. The
:54:34. > :54:41.
:54:41. > :54:46.club's owners say they have done nothing wrong.
:54:46. > :54:56.You are taking on that pay-day lenders. I think they are a Neville
:54:56. > :54:57.
:54:57. > :55:02.Lawrence. -- and abhorrence. It in pursuit -- I think we should
:55:02. > :55:06.legislate against them. I agree with the David about that. The good