:01:21. > :01:24.And in the north west: A place to call home. The
:01:24. > :01:34.government urges councils to build more permanent pitches for
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :29:55.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1701 seconds
:29:55. > :29:59.travellers. But how do you get the Welcome to the Sunday Politics in
:29:59. > :30:01.the north west. In the next 20 minutes: A place to call home. The
:30:01. > :30:07.government urges councils to build more permanent pitches for
:30:07. > :30:10.travellers. But how do you get the locals onboard?
:30:10. > :30:13.First, as ever, let me introduce our guests for this week. For the
:30:13. > :30:22.blues, Fylde Conservative MP Mark Menzies, and for the reds, Labour's
:30:23. > :30:29.Julie Hilling, who represents Bolton West. Thank you for joining
:30:29. > :30:32.David Cameron has admitted that he has not spoken to the Indian
:30:32. > :30:40.Government about BAE's Typhoon bid since last November - is he, as
:30:40. > :30:44.Labour claim, not doing enough for Lancashire workers? If you look at
:30:44. > :30:49.the Four replied to the questions, you will see that officials have
:30:49. > :30:53.been gauging very closely with government and we have also been
:30:53. > :30:57.engaging with the German government because Germany is a lead country,
:30:57. > :31:02.not the UK. The Prime Minister was in India and that is something that
:31:02. > :31:07.the previous prime ministers have not done. But that was some time
:31:07. > :31:12.ago. With it being a close-fought Ping, he should be out there
:31:12. > :31:18.constantly. The Prime Minister has made it clear that he would do
:31:18. > :31:20.everything he can. I also tabled a question, and this was to the
:31:20. > :31:26.Department of business innovations and skills, asking them what they
:31:26. > :31:32.are doing. It became clear that the Secretary of State for business has
:31:32. > :31:36.not met with the German counterpart so I will be asking for him to use
:31:36. > :31:42.his for authority to do so. Julie, this was a question by a Labour
:31:42. > :31:48.minister, what did you think? feels like he has not done enough.
:31:48. > :31:53.He has not spoken to the Indian Prime Minister since November so it
:31:53. > :31:56.feels typical of a complacency, I think, that David Cameron it seems
:31:57. > :32:01.to display at not getting in there and fighting for British business.
:32:01. > :32:05.Business is so vital to the north- west. I will stop you both their,
:32:05. > :32:08.er sorry. We will have to move on to our top story.
:32:08. > :32:10.Liverpool's become the largest city outside London to vote to have a
:32:10. > :32:14.directly-elected mayor. Councillors voted overwhelmingly to change the
:32:14. > :32:17.system and an election for Mayor will now take place in May. Last
:32:17. > :32:21.month Salford also opted to go for a mayor, but there, voters decided
:32:21. > :32:27.in a referendum. Critics say there should have been a referendum in
:32:27. > :32:29.Liverpool too. Our political editor Arif Ansari was at the vote.
:32:29. > :32:35.For centuries, Liverpool Town Hall has been making decisions for the
:32:35. > :32:38.city. On Monday evening it made a historic choice about itself. But
:32:38. > :32:47.it was a vote by councillors not voters, and campaigners for a
:32:47. > :32:52.referendum felt cheated. If you're in Manchester, Bristol or
:32:52. > :32:57.Birmingham, you will get a say in a referendum and how your city is run.
:32:57. > :33:00.In Liverpool, we get to do what Joe Anderson says. Certainly the Labour
:33:00. > :33:09.Leader led the way. And the ceremonial Lord Mayor announced the
:33:09. > :33:12.vote on the city mayor. 62 for the motion. The motion is carried.
:33:12. > :33:15.Well, vote taken and by big majority gone for a mayor, no
:33:15. > :33:25.referendum, but this is a big historic change for the way the
:33:25. > :33:31.
:33:31. > :33:35.city's run. I think it is a denial of democracy to not let them have a
:33:35. > :33:42.referendum, but at the end of the day it Labour have the numbers here.
:33:42. > :33:45.But you didn't vote against Chris - -? We didn't because I am not
:33:45. > :33:48.prepared to vote against more power for Liverpool.
:33:48. > :33:53.So for the first time anyone wanting to lead the city, as mayor,
:33:53. > :34:01.will have to win the support of Liverpool's voters. Why is it wrong
:34:01. > :34:04.to let the people decide? Somebody who is independent and wants to put
:34:04. > :34:09.forward their position, it is up to be -- up to me to be passionate
:34:09. > :34:12.about my City. That choice will be made in May. On the same day voters
:34:12. > :34:14.in Manchester will be asked in a referendum if they want a mayor,
:34:14. > :34:17.too? Joining me in the studio to discuss
:34:17. > :34:27.the implications of all this is Professor Jon Tonge, head of
:34:27. > :34:27.
:34:27. > :34:33.politics at Liverpool University. Why was then a referendum? Labour
:34:33. > :34:37.tried to spin the idea that if they didn't store and affected --
:34:37. > :34:42.elected mayor, this package that has been offered by the government,
:34:42. > :34:47.which is serious money, about �130 million, would not be given. I
:34:47. > :34:50.don't think that is quite true what the Coalition have said, that those
:34:50. > :34:54.councils displaying strong governance arrangements get the
:34:54. > :34:58.most money. There is also a fear factor because weather has been a
:34:58. > :35:03.referendum on whether to have an elected mayor, two-thirds of local
:35:03. > :35:08.authorities have said no. Liverpool could argue that, we have stolen a
:35:08. > :35:15.march on other cities now. It increases pressure on other cities,
:35:15. > :35:19.notably Manchester, to go for an elected mayor. It is made that
:35:19. > :35:23.people in Manchester will decide. It will be very difficult for the
:35:23. > :35:27.city council in Manchester if the public's a no. Could they be losing
:35:27. > :35:32.a great part of money? It is possible, but any city that goes
:35:33. > :35:37.for an elected mayor will get this money. The question has moved on in
:35:37. > :35:40.Liverpool. I fear that what is happening already it is that party
:35:40. > :35:45.politics will dominate may rule contests. The assumption was you
:35:45. > :35:49.would have lots of local characters coming forward. We don't know yet
:35:49. > :35:57.because nominations don't open in Liverpool until next month, but the
:35:57. > :36:01.evidence so far shows that we will get is already existing people
:36:01. > :36:07.standing. The Joe Anderson's of this world will probably stand and
:36:07. > :36:11.people will say, what is the difference? Mark, what would the
:36:11. > :36:14.difference be? By is the Coalition so keen on having elected mayor as
:36:14. > :36:19.if it is going to be the former leader of the council that his men
:36:19. > :36:23.anyway? What we wanted to do, and what I voted for, is for cities
:36:23. > :36:27.like Liverpool to have a referendum. It is not for government to decide,
:36:27. > :36:33.it is for the people of that city to decide. You think there should
:36:33. > :36:43.have been a referendum? Yes, and it would have been healthy.
:36:43. > :36:47.Liverpool feel under pressure? no. Has this ever been said that he
:36:47. > :36:50.will not get the pot of money. What Liverpool are arguing is that they
:36:50. > :36:55.want to the early starters and get on with it, and I can accept that
:36:55. > :36:58.argument, but the healthy thing to do is take local people with you.
:36:58. > :37:04.Make people feel they are part of the process rather than something
:37:04. > :37:08.happening to them. For Bolton, this is important, isn't it because
:37:08. > :37:13.Manchester City Council could go for a Mayer, but for Greater
:37:13. > :37:19.Manchester is it more important that you have a mayor? It is quite
:37:19. > :37:25.different from other regions. is definitely an argument for a
:37:25. > :37:27.mayor of Greater Manchester. Currently I am not a great
:37:28. > :37:35.supporter of Meyers, I prefer power to be spread amongst more people
:37:35. > :37:39.rather than just one person. It does seem that what we do miss out
:37:39. > :37:44.on across Greater Manchester now is that democratic accountability. Our
:37:45. > :37:51.leaders it will go and be part of various organisations that are
:37:51. > :37:54.running the county, but since... But there is an awful lot of
:37:55. > :37:59.pressure. If Manchester does not vote for an elected mayor, it could
:37:59. > :38:03.lose out on the money that Liverpool would get? Potentially.
:38:03. > :38:08.Bolton does not want to go down that route, similarly with Wigan,
:38:08. > :38:14.they do not believe it is right. There is a question about the money.
:38:14. > :38:23.It should follow weather is good councils having a proper democratic
:38:23. > :38:29.system. What do we think about the names bantered about? Have we got a
:38:29. > :38:35.Boris? Who will we have? One of the names that has been touted in
:38:35. > :38:38.Liverpool is Phil Redmond. It would be interesting to see whether he
:38:38. > :38:41.would be prepared to take on the Labour Party will stop it is
:38:41. > :38:47.interesting what David Miliband said this week, arguing that people
:38:47. > :38:50.in Liverpool should be able to choose their candidate. I doubt the
:38:50. > :38:55.Labour Party would allow that to happen. It would be interesting to
:38:55. > :39:00.see how the contest is opened up. The candidate has to be announced
:39:00. > :39:10.by next week, I think, making it particularly hard! I don't think we
:39:10. > :39:12.will be looking back and think that people will be shrinking violets.
:39:12. > :39:15.The North West has a large population of travellers and
:39:15. > :39:18.gypsies, but many feel they're misunderstood by the rest of
:39:18. > :39:20.society. One of the main problems has been the lack of legal sites
:39:20. > :39:23.for travellers to settle on, and friction with other communities
:39:23. > :39:27.when illegal sites sometimes spring up as a result. So now the
:39:27. > :39:30.government's trying to do something about it. But how do you address
:39:30. > :39:33.the needs of both travellers and the settled community? In a moment
:39:33. > :39:36.we'll be speaking to the government minister who's trying to do that,
:39:36. > :39:41.but first Naomi Cornwell reports on how it's affected one part of
:39:41. > :39:44.Cheshire. Travellers have always had a
:39:44. > :39:49.difficult relationship with the rest of society - Dale Farm in
:39:49. > :39:51.Essex was an extreme example that captured national attention. The
:39:51. > :39:55.closure of the UK's largest illegal travellers' settlement resulted in
:39:55. > :39:58.violent clashes. And the government has acknowledged that there's a
:39:58. > :40:02.need for many more authorised sites to avoid more scenes like this in
:40:02. > :40:04.the future. The Localism Act is introducing stronger powers for
:40:04. > :40:07.councils to tackle the problem of unauthorised developments, while
:40:07. > :40:15.�60 million of funding has been made available for new legal
:40:15. > :40:17.pitches. And some of that money could be
:40:17. > :40:21.spent here, because Cheshire East Council has been given �900,000 of
:40:21. > :40:24.that funding. This bit of council land near Crewe might not look like
:40:24. > :40:32.much at the moment, but subject to planning permission, the local
:40:32. > :40:36.authority wants to build 10 pitches for travellers here.
:40:37. > :40:41.We have a duty to assess the needs for travellers in our areas and
:40:41. > :40:47.then ensure the provision is made for them as well. You want a site
:40:47. > :40:51.that is close to amenities, close to schools and shops, and not too
:40:51. > :40:57.intrusive into the countryside. We think that this site needs those
:40:57. > :41:01.criteria. It's been welcomed by travellers in Cheshire. We have
:41:01. > :41:06.people parked unauthorised and travelling about in the area and
:41:06. > :41:12.now they will have somewhere to go. They will be settled so they can
:41:12. > :41:17.pay rent and council -- council tax. The children can go to school and
:41:17. > :41:20.it dispels everything. It eases everything if it is managed
:41:20. > :41:22.corrective. At this community centre in Winsford they organise
:41:22. > :41:29.events to bring travellers and non travellers together, hoping to
:41:29. > :41:34.improve communities' understanding of each other.
:41:34. > :41:39.We want to dispel all the methods, the lies. You can see what we are,
:41:39. > :41:43.we are human beings, no different from anywhere else. We live
:41:43. > :41:47.slightly differently, it is part of our culture, not a lifestyle choice.
:41:47. > :41:50.It is what we are. It is to show that we are no different.
:41:50. > :41:54.But the site earmarked for this traveller settlement isn't a
:41:54. > :41:58.popular choice among some local residents. There is a multitude of
:41:58. > :42:03.objections, the first one being the size of the actual site. The sight
:42:03. > :42:08.behind me is too small for its intended use. Secondly it is the
:42:08. > :42:10.selection procedures used to arrive at the site, and thirdly the lack
:42:10. > :42:13.of consultation. Their campaign against the
:42:14. > :42:17.development has been backed by the local Conservative MP. We have
:42:17. > :42:22.nothing personally angered -- against the travelling community.
:42:22. > :42:24.There are other sites that we are certain will far better serve the
:42:24. > :42:27.local communities and the travellers themselves of.
:42:27. > :42:30.government survey in 2007 found that Cheshire East needed to
:42:30. > :42:34.provide between 27 and 42 more pitches for travellers by 2011. And
:42:34. > :42:37.even more by 2016. But since the report, only ten more have been
:42:37. > :42:41.opened. Inspector Mark Watson believes that lack of authorised
:42:41. > :42:43.sites has caused problems in the county. As the head of Cheshire
:42:43. > :42:51.Police's Diversity Unit, he's worked to overcome prejudices in
:42:51. > :42:56.the area. I think people understand that
:42:56. > :43:00.accommodation is a fundamental need for everyone. If you do need to
:43:00. > :43:05.stay for an extended period, the other benefits of society come to
:43:05. > :43:09.you, excess medical services, education, more integration with
:43:09. > :43:14.the community if you have a stake in that local community. It is not
:43:14. > :43:18.a lifestyle choice. My father never buy a cup and said, I want to be a
:43:18. > :43:22.gypsy today. It was built in to you, we are a nomadic race and we do
:43:22. > :43:27.travel. The plans for this site will be debated by the council
:43:27. > :43:28.later this month. But it will take years to create the total number of
:43:28. > :43:31.pitches needed by the traveller community.
:43:31. > :43:33.Andrew Stunnell, the Liberal Democrat MP for Hazel Grove is also
:43:33. > :43:40.the Communities Minister responsible for those �60 million
:43:40. > :43:43.of extra funding for travellers' sites, Earlier he spoke to Naomi.
:43:43. > :43:48.Isn't the problem not just the money but finding sites everyone is
:43:48. > :43:53.happy with? It is important to find sites that people are happier with,
:43:53. > :43:57.but we have allocated money to people who did it to us, proposals
:43:57. > :44:02.coming to us for sites. We are pretty confident that this will
:44:02. > :44:06.start to solve the problem. Over 600 new gypsy and traveller sites
:44:06. > :44:11.across the whole country. How we make sure that councils spend that
:44:11. > :44:17.money? They won't get it until they have spent it, so we will not be
:44:17. > :44:21.wasting the money. We have allocated �47 million, 48 extra
:44:21. > :44:27.places in the north-west. It is payment by results. That is how it
:44:27. > :44:33.works. Your also providing more powers to get rid of unauthorised
:44:33. > :44:36.sites, how we a crackdown on those? The problem is unauthorised
:44:36. > :44:45.development of all sorts, not travellers. There are some tricks
:44:45. > :44:48.of the trade that people use. People use them to play the system
:44:48. > :44:53.and we are shutting those loopholes. We will be giving details about
:44:53. > :44:57.that in the next few weeks. There is a lot of catching up to do. As
:44:57. > :45:00.we saw in Cheshire, they are trying but they have a lot more pitches to
:45:00. > :45:04.open before they reach their targets. We are saying that local
:45:04. > :45:08.authorities have to work out what the right target for them is. I
:45:08. > :45:12.think Cheshire East and other local authorities will want to do that as
:45:12. > :45:17.their first step. Other sorts of catching up exists as well. We need
:45:17. > :45:21.to tackle the fact that travellers have the worst health and education
:45:21. > :45:24.outcomes. If that happens and they can get regular jobs, then some of
:45:24. > :45:28.the conflict between settled communities and gypsies and
:45:28. > :45:34.travellers can be taken away. That is really coming forward to give
:45:35. > :45:41.gypsies a fair start on a proper site -- on a proper life so they
:45:41. > :45:45.can be part of a mainstream society. �60 million being given by the
:45:45. > :45:50.government, is that enough? It is not just about money, it is about
:45:50. > :45:55.making sure that the money is targeted it in such a way that the
:45:55. > :46:00.local community can sign up to these sites. In the past, the site
:46:00. > :46:02.had been illegal and they create huge problems. I have one in my
:46:02. > :46:09.constituents that -- constituency and I see how many problems they
:46:09. > :46:13.cause. Particularly in Cheshire, the problems are that even if that
:46:13. > :46:20.site becomes illegal -- a legal site, the local community still do
:46:20. > :46:22.not want them. It is not just a problem about illegal sites. When
:46:22. > :46:27.travellers' camp, you can understand why communities get
:46:27. > :46:32.upset. The settled community does not want travellers' site near them
:46:32. > :46:36.and it is a huge problem to find a site that is suitable for the
:46:36. > :46:41.travellers and the community has accepted it. We need much more
:46:41. > :46:46.education about it as well. There will always be places like Dale
:46:46. > :46:50.Farm. I had a traveller who was moving into a house, the people
:46:50. > :46:55.around were saying, their friends would just turn up in caravans and
:46:55. > :47:00.that was not his intention. does the collision feel there needs
:47:00. > :47:07.to be a change? Labour introduced local authorities having to make
:47:07. > :47:11.adequate provision. Because you have got the files of the legal
:47:11. > :47:18.traveller sites. -- the fast. They did not get rid of the sides. We
:47:18. > :47:25.have got to get local communities to be confident about the
:47:25. > :47:30.government tackling illegal sites. There needs to be an alternative
:47:30. > :47:36.for people to illegally Goto. put pressure on local authorities
:47:36. > :47:40.to do something about it but didn't solve the problem? I think we do
:47:40. > :47:43.not have enough sides for travellers and it is good that more
:47:43. > :47:48.money is going into it so we have to do much more about educating
:47:48. > :47:58.both communities to work and live together in harmony. That is all we
:47:58. > :48:12.
:48:12. > :48:14.Let's stop there because it's time to take our weekly look at some of
:48:14. > :48:17.the region's other political stories with Gill Dummigan.
:48:17. > :48:19.An NHS regulator has appointed extra board members to help run the
:48:19. > :48:22.troubled Morecambe Bay Hospitals Trust. It's facing criticism on its
:48:22. > :48:23.appointments system, A&E services and at Furness General on maternity
:48:23. > :48:26.care. The Labour MP for Birkenhead is
:48:26. > :48:29.calling for commissioners to be sent in to run Wirral Council.
:48:29. > :48:31.Frank Field told Westminster that senior officers had cost the
:48:31. > :48:34.authority around �60 million in missed grants. The Council said it
:48:34. > :48:37.was pleased that the minister also recognised work going on to make
:48:37. > :48:40.improvements. Salford Council is to postpone two
:48:40. > :48:43.controversial plans to save money. Plans to reduce support services
:48:43. > :48:48.for deaf children will be looked at again, while three threatened day
:48:48. > :48:50.care centres for the elderly will stay open for another year.
:48:50. > :48:55.Finally, Stockport's been revealed as the town centre with the highest
:48:55. > :49:05.proportion of empty shops in the UK. A national survey claims one in
:49:05. > :49:12.
:49:12. > :49:18.It is sad news about Stockport. I must confess that I do not going
:49:18. > :49:22.them much. We need to find more ways to make our local shops
:49:22. > :49:28.attractive, and also enable charities and small businesses to
:49:28. > :49:36.have a trial. Mark, you worked in retail for a long time. 15 years
:49:36. > :49:41.before I became an MP. I was working for big retailers. It is a