:01:32. > :01:34.And in the North West: The proposals for the marina complex
:01:34. > :01:44.that ran aground. As plans for Barrow's regeneration
:01:44. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :35:36.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2032 seconds
:35:36. > :35:40.hit choppy waters, we ask what's Hello, I'm Annabel Tiffin. In the
:35:40. > :35:43.next 20 minutes: the proposals for the marina complex that ran aground.
:35:43. > :35:49.As plans for Barrow's regeneration hit choppy waters, we asked what
:35:49. > :35:53.next for the town. First, let me introduce our two
:35:53. > :35:56.guests of the day. For this week, we have branched out from
:35:56. > :35:59.Westminster to Brussels with two north-west MEPs. For the
:35:59. > :36:09.Conservatives, Jacqueline Foster, and for UKIP, the deputy leader,
:36:09. > :36:13.
:36:13. > :36:16.Paul Nuttall. We are used to having any bes in
:36:16. > :36:23.here but we don't see you very often. How often are you in the
:36:23. > :36:27.north-west was struck Mark --? me about three weeks of the month
:36:27. > :36:30.we are in Brussels where we do committee work. Once a month, a
:36:30. > :36:34.very controversial journey takes place do Strasbourg because we have
:36:34. > :36:38.to sit there for about 12 times in mid-air. The public does not
:36:38. > :36:42.understand why you do that. There are actually two European
:36:42. > :36:46.Parliament and it comes at great expense to the public, not just to
:36:46. > :36:51.transfer the MEPs, but also the officers and staff all the way from
:36:51. > :36:54.Brussels to Strasbourg. It is about 500 miles. It is a waste of money,
:36:54. > :36:57.and the Strasbourg parliament should be scrapped, quite badly.
:36:57. > :37:03.That is something we will take longer than we have got to talk
:37:03. > :37:06.about, so I am going to move on. Liverpool's hosting the Green
:37:06. > :37:10.Party's spring conference this weekend and, on the face of it, the
:37:10. > :37:12.party has much to celebrate. Over the past few years, the environment
:37:12. > :37:15.has gone from being an ethical sideshow to centre stage politics.
:37:15. > :37:18.Every party is now anxious to show its green credentials. But, where
:37:19. > :37:22.does that leave the people who started it all? In a moment, I'll
:37:22. > :37:24.be talking to the leader of the Green Party, Caroline Lucas, but
:37:24. > :37:27.first, Peter Marshall has been to Merseyside where the environment
:37:27. > :37:32.has become big business. It seems many firms have seen the
:37:32. > :37:34.light when it comes to going green. In fact, this transport
:37:34. > :37:44.refrigeration company in Knowsley has diversified to meet the demand
:37:44. > :37:46.
:37:46. > :37:49.for green energy products. looked to reduce our overheads and
:37:49. > :37:53.one way was to reduce our electricity and gas bill and
:37:53. > :37:56.various other costs. As we looked into it, within the first couple of
:37:57. > :37:59.months, we found it was quite a viable business proposition.
:37:59. > :38:02.Alongside the core business they now supply and install renewable
:38:02. > :38:06.and energy-saving equipment. The Government needs to promote a green
:38:06. > :38:10.agenda. By 2020, 15 per cent of all the UK's Energy should come from
:38:10. > :38:12.renewable sources. It has outlined plans for what it calls the world's
:38:12. > :38:17.first Green Investment Bank, to help firms finance renewable energy
:38:18. > :38:26.schemes. Liverpool hope to be its home, as do Manchester, Warrington
:38:26. > :38:32.and Chester. The north-west is so appropriate. Excuse the cliche, but
:38:32. > :38:34.this is the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution. This will
:38:34. > :38:38.bring in other prospective investors who have got plans for
:38:38. > :38:41.the region and look for Bank Investment. It is about profile.
:38:41. > :38:43.But the green economy faces challenges. The Government is
:38:43. > :38:47.trying to cut the amount of money paid to householders for
:38:47. > :38:49.electricity they feed back into the grid by using solar panels. The
:38:49. > :38:56.industry fears cutting that feed in tariff could cause a devastating
:38:56. > :39:00.drop in demand. The Government have done what they have done for their
:39:00. > :39:04.own reasons, and no one can really understand that. You had a good
:39:04. > :39:07.incentive there, so hopefully, if the Government sort themselves out,
:39:07. > :39:10.get the business back as usual. Liverpool John Moores University,
:39:10. > :39:12.they are working on the green technologies of the future, like
:39:12. > :39:19.using microwaves to speed up incineration, and produce fewer
:39:20. > :39:22.harmful emissions. These technologies that we are trying to
:39:22. > :39:26.look at make things faster and they think -- make things more
:39:27. > :39:32.productive. They are also economically viable. So, green can
:39:32. > :39:35.pay its way? It can, yes. wherewithal for a greener future is
:39:35. > :39:42.out there, but it has to make economic as well as environmental
:39:42. > :39:46.sense. In our Mees -- Merseyside studio is
:39:46. > :39:50.Caroline Lucas, leader of the Green Party. Going green can be big
:39:50. > :39:53.business, but a lot of the mainstream parties are taking this
:39:53. > :39:57.on now. Does that mean, do you think, that your work is done,
:39:57. > :40:00.really? If any that were the case. We have got a coalition government
:40:00. > :40:05.that likes to say it wants to be the greenest government ever, but
:40:05. > :40:09.when you look at what it is doing, it is quite contrary. Your piece
:40:09. > :40:13.just cited the example of the solar feed in Paris. That change that the
:40:13. > :40:17.Government is about to make, not just the amount of money going into
:40:17. > :40:21.the tariff is reducing, but it needs to be done in a predictable
:40:21. > :40:26.way, not a sudden way, as the Government has done it. That move
:40:26. > :40:29.will mean that we are losing about 20,000 jobs in the solar industry.
:40:29. > :40:34.That is one of the fastest-growing industries in this country, and it
:40:34. > :40:38.would be tragic if those jobs go. But the coalition Government wants
:40:38. > :40:41.to introduce the Green Investment Bank, which is going to plough in
:40:41. > :40:46.�15 billion into the green economy. Surely that shows they are taking
:40:46. > :40:50.this seriously? Credit where it is due, I guess, it is a good idea.
:40:50. > :40:56.But of course the mud that it will be able to borrow and lend and pass
:40:56. > :40:59.on has gone down. -- the amount. The time frame has also lent them.
:40:59. > :41:03.There are concerns about whether that Green Investment Bank is going
:41:03. > :41:07.to be able to meet his potential. I hope that it is, but on a whole
:41:07. > :41:12.range of issues so far, in spite of the rhetoric, we have seen very
:41:12. > :41:17.little real action on the ground. cake, but green jobs are well and
:41:17. > :41:21.good, but in this region where there really needs some way of
:41:21. > :41:25.making up for the loss of public sector jobs, is it enough? We need
:41:25. > :41:28.all kinds of different levers to create jobs in places like the
:41:28. > :41:32.north-west and elsewhere. I think the green economy has to be a
:41:32. > :41:34.crucial part of it, and not just because it is good for the
:41:35. > :41:39.environment, but because the green economy is so labour-intensive.
:41:39. > :41:42.There has been a lot of work done with unions and others to show how
:41:42. > :41:45.we can create one million new jobs across the country. And not just
:41:45. > :41:48.saying that because you would expect me to, but because it is a
:41:48. > :41:52.really good way of putting money into create jobs that are
:41:52. > :41:55.sustainable into the future, and in industries that are labour
:41:55. > :41:59.intensive. This green economy is far more labour intensive and the
:41:59. > :42:02.fossil fuel economy that it replaces. There are some real big
:42:02. > :42:05.wins out there, and the Government's challenge now is to
:42:05. > :42:10.show some real ambition around maximising the benefits that are
:42:10. > :42:15.out there. Do stay with us. Paul Nuttall, do you think that the
:42:15. > :42:23.green jobs can stimulate our economy? I am not sure actually.
:42:23. > :42:27.What I will say is that if we carry on down the line of this Greek
:42:27. > :42:32.environmental -- green environmentalism in terms of energy,
:42:32. > :42:38.if we continue with this crackpot idea, quite frankly the lights will
:42:38. > :42:43.go out in Britain very soon indeed. What ideas? Wind farms, for example.
:42:43. > :42:47.They are more than a costly distraction, they don't work. They
:42:47. > :42:52.only work 25% of the time and when you most need energy, during cold
:42:52. > :42:56.snaps or heat waves, the wind does not blow so they don't work. Even
:42:56. > :43:01.where it does blow to strong, you have to turn them off. All they are
:43:01. > :43:05.doing is making rich landowners richer. Jacqueline, you are on the
:43:05. > :43:10.environment committee in Brussels. Do you think that these are
:43:10. > :43:16.crackpot ideas? I think some of them are. I am not a great fan of
:43:16. > :43:19.wind farms. I think you have got to look in the round, really. What do
:43:19. > :43:24.we actually need to keep the country going? What do we need in
:43:24. > :43:26.certain industries? Where I would agree with Caroline, I think a lot
:43:27. > :43:32.of the manufacturing industries over the years have started to come
:43:32. > :43:36.up trumps in terms of the way that the manufacturing. If you Broughton
:43:36. > :43:42.best from energy, I have always supported expanding our nuclear
:43:42. > :43:46.capacity in this country. I am very pleased the Government has actually
:43:46. > :43:52.decided that it will do this. the Conservatives now see
:43:52. > :43:56.themselves as a Green Party? It is worldwide. It is part and parcel -
:43:56. > :43:59.when you are a grown-up party and you have to take responsibility to
:43:59. > :44:04.be the government of the day, of course you are going to take into
:44:04. > :44:09.account all sorts of... Before I come back, let's bring Caroline
:44:09. > :44:13.back in. I'm sure you want to respond. And surprisingly, I do.
:44:13. > :44:17.Look at Germany, where they are putting in more solar panels in a
:44:17. > :44:21.month than Britain does in a year. That is good for the economy - they
:44:21. > :44:23.are doing very well economically at the moment. This idea that
:44:23. > :44:28.environmental policies are a distraction from business as usual
:44:28. > :44:31.for grown-up politics is cloud- cuckoo-land. Some of the things
:44:31. > :44:35.that Ball said about wind power is not the case. If you look at
:44:35. > :44:40.nuclear power stations, both of your guests sing in favour of these,
:44:40. > :44:44.but they regularly go off-line and stay off-line. When that happens
:44:44. > :44:48.because of some problem in the mechanism, you have got a huge
:44:48. > :44:56.amount of energy that is taken off- line at once. At least with a range
:44:56. > :45:00.of different renewables, you have got a range that you can draw on.
:45:00. > :45:04.All right, Caroline, I'm sorry we are running out of time. Thank you
:45:04. > :45:09.for joining us. Now, still on the subject of the economy. Formal than
:45:09. > :45:16.two decades now, regeneration has been the name up of the game in
:45:17. > :45:19.post-industrial Britain. Until last year, millions of pounds of
:45:19. > :45:22.regeneration money came from the regional North West Development
:45:22. > :45:25.Agency, and a lot of that money was match funded by Europe. But, when
:45:25. > :45:27.the agency was abolished by the coalition government in 2010, those
:45:28. > :45:32.funds dried up. Naomi Cornwell has been to Barrow-in-Furness in
:45:32. > :45:35.Cumbria where plans for the marina have been left high and dry.
:45:35. > :45:37.This was Barrow's big dream - a �200 million transformation of the
:45:37. > :45:41.town's waterfront, with a marina, homes, hotels and a large
:45:41. > :45:49.industrial park. But, many years after the plans were unveiled, work
:45:49. > :45:53.has stopped. There is little to see for the �7 million so far spent.
:45:53. > :45:58.is frustrating for people. When we started the project initially, I
:45:58. > :46:02.believed that we would have it done in five or seven years' time. I had
:46:03. > :46:05.visions of houses and penthouses and God knows what. The project was
:46:05. > :46:08.mainly funded by the North West Development Agency. In 2010, the
:46:08. > :46:11.Government announced it would abolish the agency and its grants
:46:11. > :46:18.have since dried up. But it has not stopped Barrow Council buying up
:46:18. > :46:21.land. If we don't do that as a council, then what we are saying to
:46:21. > :46:25.the people is that Barrow would develop and expand, so we have to
:46:26. > :46:28.keep that going. That is our plan for the future. It is a big
:46:28. > :46:31.disappointment for Barrow, a town with high levels of deprivation.
:46:31. > :46:34.The proportion of people claiming jobseeker's allowance is higher
:46:34. > :46:41.here than the national average. So is the proportion of the population
:46:41. > :46:46.on incapacity benefit. Many agree that Barrow needs a boost. We could
:46:46. > :46:51.do with something like that. It is just on the edge. Yes, definitely.
:46:51. > :46:56.Then you might get ships and that coming in, too, which would help.
:46:56. > :47:00.What do you think Barrow needs? better shopping centre. That's it.
:47:00. > :47:03.Regeneration in the town centre. The Dock Museum shows the town's
:47:03. > :47:06.main industry through the ages. But shipbuilding has been in decline
:47:07. > :47:08.over the last 20 years, prompting calls for new jobs in other sectors.
:47:08. > :47:11.That is the challenge facing Cumbria's Local Enterprise
:47:11. > :47:14.Partnership. LEPs were set up to replace the regional development
:47:14. > :47:22.agencies. They can help projects but the Government money, but can't
:47:22. > :47:26.fund things themselves. It is extremely tough, so I think we have
:47:26. > :47:30.to admit that the days of speculative development on these
:47:30. > :47:36.types of industry are for the time being gone. Development will need
:47:36. > :47:40.to be led by investors, rather than speculative developers, and we are
:47:40. > :47:44.talking to a number of investment developers. The town's prospects
:47:44. > :47:47.aren't perhaps as bleak as it may seem here. Out at sea, a new
:47:47. > :47:51.industry has emerged, as wind farms transform the Cumbrian coast line.
:47:51. > :47:54.They have been championed by Furness Enterprise. It wants to
:47:54. > :47:57.attract more private investors into Barrow to help regenerate the town.
:47:57. > :48:04.But it, too, faces an uncertain future, and will close in August
:48:04. > :48:09.unless more funding can be found. There are still opportunities. We
:48:09. > :48:13.have a cluster of companies in this area involved in solid state
:48:13. > :48:16.lighting, the new energy efficient lighting for the 21st century. With
:48:16. > :48:20.the right kind of support from the Government, we can make a real
:48:20. > :48:23.impact and create jobs. But we are not getting back from the UK
:48:24. > :48:32.government. There are concerns that delays to regeneration projects
:48:32. > :48:38.could have a big impact on young people in towns like Barrow.
:48:38. > :48:41.any apprenticeship I can found his with BAe. The members of Furness
:48:41. > :48:48.Youth Council pass on their ideas on improving the town to the local
:48:48. > :48:52.authority. There is not much here, there is not much choice. I would
:48:52. > :49:00.not get a job here. There is a little chance that I would get a
:49:00. > :49:05.job here. I would rather work away. When people will take more interest
:49:05. > :49:15.in Barrow, people will then be interested because it is their home
:49:15. > :49:16.
:49:16. > :49:20.town and they will want to come back. I have no objection to
:49:20. > :49:24.Manchester or Liverpool in their share, but you can't do
:49:24. > :49:28.regeneration simply in cities because all that happens is the
:49:28. > :49:32.town's Dye. I would like to see a JCB digger on here as soon as
:49:32. > :49:35.possible. I will have to be a little bit patient. The dream has
:49:35. > :49:45.not died, but the wait for Barrow's bright future might take longer
:49:45. > :49:49.than anyone here expected. Professor Alan Harding joins us in
:49:49. > :49:54.the studio. Taking that last point that was made, what is the future
:49:54. > :49:58.of regeneration for our north-west pounds? The last speaker was right
:49:58. > :50:04.to suggest that there has been a big concentration on cities. I
:50:04. > :50:07.think that is for a good reason. If you look at the statistics, it will
:50:07. > :50:11.demonstrate that it is the bigger urban areas that have had most
:50:11. > :50:15.success. For a government that is concentrating on success, then the
:50:15. > :50:18.implications for areas like Barrow, even though there are quite
:50:18. > :50:23.concerning in some areas, I think follow from what we have been doing
:50:23. > :50:27.in recent years. Barrow has benefited from some European
:50:27. > :50:31.funding in the past. Obviously the big cities much more so. Is that
:50:31. > :50:36.all going to change in the future? There is a review going on at the
:50:36. > :50:42.moment of European funding for the next period, which follows 2014.
:50:42. > :50:45.All the indications are that the UK as a whole will get much less of an
:50:45. > :50:49.allocation and it has this time around. Simply because there are
:50:49. > :50:53.areas of southern and eastern Europe which are statistically
:50:53. > :50:57.worse off than the UK. So they might get back pot of money that we
:50:57. > :51:01.might otherwise have got? Yes, at the European funding is likely to
:51:01. > :51:07.shift away from that big physical project do things like business
:51:07. > :51:11.development, entrepreneur realism, high technology and so on. Talking
:51:11. > :51:15.about Europe, the economy is struggling, there is no about --
:51:15. > :51:20.doubt about that, but there is over �1 billion of European funding that
:51:20. > :51:24.is not being used. It was earmarked to help England's poorest regions
:51:24. > :51:28.and cities lying unspent. Why is that? I have no idea. It is one
:51:29. > :51:35.thing having a north-west development agency that is part of
:51:35. > :51:42.rate mechanism and clearly everyone knew what they did, and... But that
:51:42. > :51:48.has gone now. People can blame, of course they can. The money is going
:51:48. > :51:51.to then be - the whole thing will be utilised through the local
:51:51. > :51:56.enterprise partnerships. It is just that the structure is different. It
:51:56. > :52:01.does not mean to say that there is less money or more money. If it
:52:01. > :52:04.depends on who bids for what, but much funding still applied when it
:52:04. > :52:10.was the north-west development agency. There is nothing new there.
:52:10. > :52:13.The LEPs can't directly give money. The regional development agencies
:52:13. > :52:17.did have their own money. That is the difference. They can't match
:52:17. > :52:22.the European funding any more, so the European funding is not
:52:22. > :52:25.forthcoming. The European funding is still... The funding promised is
:52:25. > :52:31.still available. What is different is that the mechanisms in the
:52:31. > :52:35.north-west and across the UK are different. Is that right, Paul, is
:52:35. > :52:42.it just the structure that is different? Jackie is right. It is
:52:42. > :52:44.more localised. I am a great believer in localism. If the is
:52:44. > :52:48.organisations are run by a democratically elected councillors
:52:48. > :52:52.and businesses, then I am all in favour. There is a bigger issue
:52:52. > :52:56.here. You are talking about European funding. There is such a
:52:57. > :53:00.big misnomer. It is our own money. So you are saying it is the money
:53:00. > :53:04.that we have been given in the first prize? Absolutely. �50
:53:04. > :53:08.million a day, it cost this country to be a member of this organisation.
:53:08. > :53:11.We sent the money out there, they sent half of it back and we are
:53:11. > :53:15.expected to say thank you. There is no such thing as European money, it
:53:15. > :53:23.is our money. How can we get this money to our regions that really
:53:23. > :53:27.need it? A moment it is lying there and nobody can access it. We need a
:53:27. > :53:32.referendum and we spend our own money sensibly on a foreign people
:53:32. > :53:37.in our own country. I think the more realistic prospect is that we
:53:37. > :53:41.need to think more carefully about much funding for things. He is
:53:41. > :53:44.right, the money is on the table and we need to find Mechelen --
:53:44. > :53:48.different mechanisms for finding the match funding. In Barrow, my
:53:48. > :53:51.understanding is that the assets of the ritual Development Agency had
:53:51. > :53:56.been transferred to another organisation, the homes and
:53:56. > :54:00.communities agency. There is some prospect that the agency will be
:54:00. > :54:04.able to realise the value of some of those assets. That is just one
:54:04. > :54:08.example. Local-authority is, you know, have got assets which they
:54:08. > :54:14.can use to back European funding. It is not a lost cause. It's now
:54:14. > :54:17.time for our round-up of this week's events with Gill Dummigan.
:54:17. > :54:20.Lancashire MPs lobbied this week for BAe Systems's bid to build the
:54:20. > :54:25.Indian Government's new fighter force. At the moment, France is the
:54:25. > :54:27.preferred bidder. But MPs met David Cameron to urge him to keep up the
:54:27. > :54:30.pressure. The House of Commons this week
:54:30. > :54:33.debated calls for a new inquest into the death of a teenage victim
:54:33. > :54:36.of the Hillsborough disaster. The mother of Kevin Williams has always
:54:36. > :54:40.contested the verdict that he died accidentally. More than 100,000
:54:40. > :54:43.people signed her online petition, triggering the debate.
:54:43. > :54:47.A public inquiry has been called for after a damning report on adult
:54:47. > :54:51.social services at Wirral Council. Last week, the Labour leader Steve
:54:51. > :54:58.Foulkes was voted out by councillors. The new man in charge
:54:58. > :55:03.says an inquiry is the only way to restore trust.
:55:03. > :55:07.I know that the prime minister has shown an interest. Ministers in
:55:07. > :55:10.London are showing an interest. We will speak to them to see if we can
:55:10. > :55:12.get this sorted. Finally, mothers in the Isle of Man
:55:12. > :55:22.have been out on the streets protesting. They are concerned at
:55:22. > :55:24.