:01:23. > :01:27.And in the North West: A rubbish offer? The government's
:01:27. > :01:37.giving councils extra cash to have weekly bin collections. So why are
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :31:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1809 seconds
:31:47. > :31:51.Hello and welcome to the programme. In the next 20 minutes: the
:31:51. > :31:55.Government is offering council's cash to do weekly in collections.
:31:55. > :31:59.Why do so many say the idea is rubbish?
:31:59. > :32:03.We also have an interview with the former Labour Foreign Secretary
:32:03. > :32:10.David Miliband coming up, and I will be discussing the issues with
:32:10. > :32:15.my two studio guest. We have the studio -- that we have been MP for
:32:15. > :32:19.Lancaster and fall of Shaw and Yvonne Fovargue.
:32:19. > :32:22.First, more than 200 people with disabilities are facing
:32:22. > :32:26.redundancies in the north-west after the Government announced the
:32:26. > :32:29.closure of seven Remploy factories in the region.
:32:29. > :32:33.The factories are losing money and ministers say the money can be
:32:33. > :32:39.better spent. Charities are saying it is an attack on the Most
:32:39. > :32:44.Honourable. Remploy factories were created
:32:44. > :32:46.after the war to get injured servicemen a job. Workers at this
:32:46. > :32:53.factory are among those to have been fighting a losing battle to
:32:53. > :32:59.keep them. It is appalling. Where can they find those jobs? We have
:32:59. > :33:04.no chance of getting a job. I and 58 and had been here for 21 years.
:33:04. > :33:08.He will give a 58-year-old a job outside? The problem is that most
:33:08. > :33:11.of the factories are losing money. 40 years ago, the Labour Government
:33:11. > :33:15.closed a similar number of factories, and this Government
:33:15. > :33:21.estimates there are still paying a rent �25,000 to keep each worker in
:33:21. > :33:29.a job. By spending money more effectively, up to 8004 unemployed
:33:29. > :33:34.disabled people could be supported into mainstream employment.
:33:34. > :33:41.strategy means that seven factories will close in the north-west, in
:33:41. > :33:46.Barrow, Birkenhead, Balsam, Manchester, Oldham, Preston and
:33:46. > :33:51.Wigan. Around 260 people will lose their jobs. Factories and Burnley,
:33:51. > :33:56.Blackburn and he would will remain open. In the Commons, some MPs
:33:56. > :33:59.wanted alternatives. Can I have an assurance from the Minister that if
:33:59. > :34:03.it during the consultation period they consultation is made to keep
:34:03. > :34:08.the factory opened as a social enterprise that the proposal will
:34:08. > :34:12.be given sympathetic consideration and adequate support? Critics say
:34:12. > :34:16.this is an attack on the most vulnerable. The Government say it
:34:16. > :34:21.is a way to help those with disabilities get better jobs. At
:34:21. > :34:26.least many facing the personal challenge of unemployment.
:34:26. > :34:31.Eric Ollerenshaw, the GMB have called these closures a disgrace,
:34:31. > :34:35.Labour call it the wrong plan at the wrong time, is it? I do not
:34:35. > :34:40.think so. As you, Terry explained, there has been a long principle
:34:40. > :34:44.behind this. The idea of segregating disabled workers in
:34:44. > :34:48.their own factories is out of date and out of time. The previous
:34:48. > :34:54.Government closed 28 factories and closed -- tried a modernisation
:34:54. > :35:00.programme. They say the money can be spent on helping other disabled
:35:00. > :35:05.people into work. That is the key, getting disabled people into work
:35:05. > :35:08.beside the table. It will be a difficult process. I am pleased
:35:08. > :35:11.that the Government has announced it million pounds specifically to
:35:11. > :35:17.get special attention to each individual worker in the factories
:35:18. > :35:23.that will have to close. To clarify, is this about funding, because they
:35:23. > :35:29.are supposedly losing money, these factories, or is it to end the
:35:29. > :35:35.segregated and climate? In one sense it is both. It is to deal
:35:35. > :35:40.with the disabled, and the more debt is around 1,700 and particular
:35:40. > :35:44.factories, but there are thousands of more disabled people that can be
:35:44. > :35:48.helped by the money being lost by these factories. The principle of
:35:48. > :35:52.integrating the disabled alongside the labelled is one that the
:35:52. > :35:57.previous Government and this Government are continuing. Yvonne,
:35:57. > :36:01.would you welcome this principle? would welcome it, and I actually
:36:01. > :36:05.visited the Remploy factory. The people they thought it was a family,
:36:05. > :36:10.they will living in a supportive environment and they feel like the
:36:10. > :36:13.family it is being taken away from them. As the film set, where is
:36:13. > :36:17.someone who is 58 and has a disability and has worked in
:36:17. > :36:21.support of employment for this length of time, where are they
:36:21. > :36:26.supposed to go? Do you disagree with Labour closing 28 factories in
:36:26. > :36:30.2008? I believe that in 2008 they looked at it and look at the
:36:30. > :36:33.procurement, and people did try and find them jobs in a much better
:36:33. > :36:37.environment. There were many more jobs around and there was much more
:36:37. > :36:42.help given. I know Citizens Advice Bureaux and others went in to
:36:42. > :36:46.provide help for the people in Remploy, and the packages they got
:36:46. > :36:51.in 2008 they extremely generous. The GMB union said that many of
:36:51. > :36:55.those who were made redundant them are still on welfare now. There are
:36:55. > :36:58.quite a few on welfare now and that is a lesson we must look at. With
:36:58. > :37:01.the employment prospects are so poor for young people at people who
:37:01. > :37:06.do not have a disability, is this the best time to lose these
:37:07. > :37:11.factories? Than is the point, isn't it, Erica all unsure? Is this the
:37:11. > :37:15.right time to put more people on to benefits? There is never a right
:37:16. > :37:19.time to do these things. Never a great time at all. But the
:37:19. > :37:24.statistics that have looked at, Remploy employment have something
:37:24. > :37:28.like 700 or 800 jobs for disabled people per week. We have looked at
:37:28. > :37:32.the mistakes of the previous Government, when they tried to get
:37:32. > :37:38.disabled people into work with personal packages, at a cost of �8
:37:38. > :37:42.billion. We will take 18 months with a pestle attention to each one
:37:43. > :37:47.to get them into the jobs. Ignore them alone, there are around 115
:37:47. > :37:52.people who could lose their jobs. Where will they go? If you look at
:37:52. > :37:56.the jobs vacancies, there are over half a million jobs vacancies.
:37:56. > :38:02.the jobs go to their? Avon, what are the chances that people from
:38:02. > :38:06.Remploy will put up and climate? the moment in Wigan, there are 14
:38:06. > :38:12.people chasing every one job. Where are these people, who need the
:38:12. > :38:16.support, to keep the in climate, where are they going to go and find
:38:16. > :38:19.the employers that are prepared to take the time and the efforts to
:38:19. > :38:24.help people into work? It is completely the wrong time and I
:38:24. > :38:31.would take issue with some of the figures as well. In fact, the
:38:31. > :38:34.bonuses paid to the reply managers were 1.8 million in 2011. That is
:38:34. > :38:40.disgraceful and should have been put into keeping factories going
:38:40. > :38:45.and looking into procurement. going to stop you there. We are
:38:45. > :38:49.going to move on. Some of you may think a lot of rubbish gets spoken
:38:49. > :38:54.on this programme, Today, obviously not. But we make no apologies for
:38:54. > :38:59.it to stay as he will be talking about Ben's. RG has been emptied
:38:59. > :39:05.regularly enough? Communities Secretary thinks not affect his
:39:06. > :39:10.every fortnight. He is offering councils �250 million to switch
:39:10. > :39:13.back to reclaim any collections. Not many are keen. One way for
:39:13. > :39:19.councils in the north-west have shown an interest in the money.
:39:19. > :39:29.Salford, rebel Barre, Barrow, Chester West Manchester. -- Ribble
:39:29. > :39:29.
:39:30. > :39:34.Valley. The other councils are The issue of bins has caused a
:39:34. > :39:38.political stink over the years. For nearly in collections where a
:39:38. > :39:44.process developed under the last Labour Government. This Government
:39:44. > :39:49.has called weakly in collections a basic right. They have put aside
:39:49. > :39:54.�250 million to encourage local authorities to increase collections.
:39:54. > :40:00.Labour were finding for minor breaches of being rules. Did you
:40:00. > :40:06.put your been out at the lot wrong power? Watch out! Because no one
:40:07. > :40:12.expects the town hall Inquisition. Rubbish gags aside, the two
:40:12. > :40:15.councils will be applied for the cash. They will be increasing
:40:15. > :40:20.collectors from 49 be to recreate an attempt to get residence to
:40:20. > :40:24.recycle everything from cooking oil to batteries. We will recycle twice
:40:24. > :40:28.as much material as we currently do. We are looking to use this as a
:40:28. > :40:33.springboard to drive for that next level of innovation in terms of
:40:33. > :40:38.what we can recycle or remove from the waste stream. That will be very
:40:38. > :40:43.much what we will be applying for the Pickles pounds and pennies.
:40:43. > :40:47.the may be less is this council, upper weekly collections will cost
:40:47. > :40:50.an extra �2 million per year. They're happy with the current
:40:50. > :40:55.system of four nearly but think there is scope for improvement.
:40:55. > :40:59.are looking at what Mr Pickles is proposing, there are conditions
:40:59. > :41:03.attached, as you may expect. But we have started looking at the
:41:03. > :41:07.feasibility of taking out the largest element of the Benn, which
:41:07. > :41:14.is food. That is 20,000 tonnes per easier. To collect that separately,
:41:14. > :41:18.you would need to collect it quickly. At Wyre Council, it is a
:41:18. > :41:23.definite No. They are concerned that the money offered would not
:41:23. > :41:29.cover the costs of the extra been around. It took to be a lot of work
:41:29. > :41:35.and we would lose money. We lost enough of our budget last year, and
:41:35. > :41:39.he cannot afford it. There is no such thing as a free lunch. We
:41:39. > :41:44.cannot afford it if people lose money. If it will cost us �1
:41:44. > :41:47.million or more to use that money it does not make sense.
:41:47. > :41:50.Government say or make councils that can prove there will be an
:41:50. > :41:56.environmental benefits will get the money.
:41:56. > :42:01.Still with me is Eric Ollerenshaw and Yvonne Fovargue. This is one of
:42:01. > :42:07.those issues that gets people going. Should councils be taking Pickles
:42:07. > :42:11.pains and pennies? Councils should be doing exactly what you saw there.
:42:11. > :42:15.Different councils of different persuasions, some are going back to
:42:15. > :42:21.weekly collections and some are not. That is localism. What Eric Pickles
:42:21. > :42:26.has provided is the ability to do that. The previous council --
:42:26. > :42:30.previous Government was compelling councils to court to buy a weekly
:42:30. > :42:35.collectors. I would like to see real localism. With indifferent
:42:35. > :42:39.council areas, different structures for different streets. In
:42:39. > :42:46.Lancashire, the still have some very long terraced streets. Weekly
:42:46. > :42:51.in collections would be perfect. Wouldn't this be offensive? Not if
:42:51. > :42:54.you balance it. In rural areas it could before rightly. On terraced
:42:54. > :42:59.streets you have a problem with the number of different bins. By the
:42:59. > :43:03.time you get to third collection, then, perhaps, many councils will
:43:03. > :43:10.look back at this money and say that perhaps they need weekly
:43:10. > :43:12.collections for food waste. Avon, what do you think? I think spending
:43:12. > :43:17.a quarter of a million pounds on bin collections when local
:43:17. > :43:20.authorities are having problems cutting home care and essential
:43:20. > :43:23.services like Sure Start and libraries, real localism would mean
:43:23. > :43:27.giving this money to councils and providing services that councils
:43:27. > :43:32.actually want to provide and that residents actually need. This could
:43:32. > :43:36.be best-paid breaks for carers looking after disabled people.
:43:36. > :43:40.Pickles says that councils not taking up this money are out of
:43:40. > :43:45.touch with opinion. He says it is a class divide. If you have a large
:43:45. > :43:50.garden you can store the rubbish for weeks, but if you have a
:43:50. > :43:55.bungalow or terraced garden then you cannot. In my constituency we
:43:55. > :43:59.have buildings for bags inside the Downs were you can recycle. Batty
:43:59. > :44:04.school recently, a boy told me that he likes sought the rubbish out
:44:04. > :44:07.because it taught him which bits of packaging goes where. He said he
:44:07. > :44:13.knew that there was too much packaging on items because he had
:44:13. > :44:18.to recycle for his family. This is a vote winner. Isn't that why Eric
:44:18. > :44:24.Pickles is doing this? He is saying that, or the Tate councils to do
:44:24. > :44:27.not take this money. This is something we promised in the
:44:27. > :44:32.General Election. The previous Government compelled councils to
:44:32. > :44:36.abandon weekly bin collections. Remember there was the top of chips
:44:36. > :44:42.in dense to measure so you could be fined so much? We have scraps that
:44:42. > :44:46.and what Eric is giving is a choice to councils, to sue what this?
:44:46. > :44:52.is giving a bit of a sex though his and he? He is saying, will betide
:44:52. > :44:58.the councils who do not take this money. -- he is a giving a little
:44:58. > :45:02.bit of any accept the old. It will be up to the councils to decide.
:45:02. > :45:06.Different parties will make decisions as to what to put into
:45:06. > :45:09.the local manifestos about bin collections. I would like to see
:45:09. > :45:15.more variety within councils and not just want system for all
:45:15. > :45:20.councils. I would like to scotch this notion that the fines we used
:45:20. > :45:25.to find people for media been led to centimetres high, speaking to
:45:25. > :45:28.waste what today, what the fines have been used for are for people
:45:28. > :45:31.who leave their rubbish, the bin bags scattered around and block
:45:31. > :45:35.pavements so that people who are in wheelchairs or with pushchairs
:45:35. > :45:42.cannot get through. Councils can no longer take action against those
:45:42. > :45:51.people. Let's get a round-up of the week's
:45:51. > :45:57.A multi-billion pound plan to transform the Liverpool waterfront
:45:57. > :46:01.has been approved by councillors. Liverpool waters could create up to
:46:01. > :46:05.20,000 new jobs. Opponents are worried about the city's famous
:46:05. > :46:11.architecture. The reader of Salford council John Merry has lost his bet
:46:11. > :46:14.to become the city's first elected mayor. Labour have selected the
:46:14. > :46:19.former Pickles MP Ian Stewart to be a candidate.
:46:19. > :46:21.People living in Greater Manchester will soon be able to ask police if
:46:21. > :46:25.their partners are violent. It follows the case of Clare Wood from
:46:25. > :46:30.Salford, who was murdered by her former boyfriend. Some charities
:46:30. > :46:33.have criticised the move, but campaigners are pleased. I am not
:46:33. > :46:36.saying that every person will choose to enter a relationship, but
:46:36. > :46:40.that it will be a magic bullet for domestic violence. We need other
:46:40. > :46:44.things in place. But it is a simple measure that will give people the
:46:44. > :46:49.right to know and then to make decisions. Two police stations on
:46:49. > :46:59.the Isle of Man are being forced to close. The police must make savings
:46:59. > :47:04.A few weeks ago we had the Labour bitter Ed Miliband here in the
:47:04. > :47:08.studio. This week, his brother, David, is visiting Manchester. He
:47:08. > :47:13.is touring universities giving his thoughts on politics and perhaps
:47:13. > :47:17.reminding that Labour members that he is still around. At last has met
:47:17. > :47:21.him and asked him why Labour have stayed popular.
:47:21. > :47:25.A fundamental reason is that the party in Manchester, to take that
:47:25. > :47:29.as an example, has looked outwards instead of inwards. We were swept
:47:29. > :47:33.away in the south of England were many people thought we were not in
:47:33. > :47:37.tune with their aspirations. In the Manchester party be engaged with
:47:37. > :47:42.the community at they were able to persuade people that they could
:47:42. > :47:48.represent their interests. We are in Manchester today and we had
:47:48. > :47:51.decent results. Obviously, there is a bit sudden problem for Labour.
:47:51. > :47:56.But what does Labour stand for mayor? Other than opposing spending
:47:56. > :48:02.cuts. Labour stands for protecting people from risks beyond their
:48:02. > :48:08.control. It is at the heart of our economic policy. We stand for
:48:08. > :48:11.giving people more power over daylight, which he would do through
:48:11. > :48:16.public services and investment reform. But we are a party that
:48:16. > :48:19.also stands for a strong and cohesive community. If you look at
:48:19. > :48:23.the big public sector reforms, I remember when you wear in
:48:23. > :48:27.Government you push for a reform of the NHS and schools. Now when that
:48:27. > :48:33.is proposed by the Government you up was it. There is a big
:48:33. > :48:36.difference. The current Government are devolving the Health Service
:48:36. > :48:41.instead of reforming it. The choice is not whether you reform or not,
:48:41. > :48:46.that is what the Tories are saying, it is nonsense. It is good reform
:48:46. > :48:50.or bad reform. We have an absolute car crash of NHS reform.
:48:50. > :48:54.students sat next to me today said that David Miliband is very good,
:48:54. > :48:58.he reminds me of Tony Blair. I am not sure that all the reviewers
:48:58. > :49:02.will be that as a complement, but I am happy to take it as a complement.
:49:02. > :49:06.I am joined in the studio by Professor Andrew Russell from
:49:06. > :49:10.Manchester University. You were there as well, do you think he is
:49:10. > :49:15.happy about the comparison with Tony Blair? The reception he got
:49:15. > :49:17.was phenomenal. It was more like Kennedy to be honest. It was
:49:17. > :49:21.Kennedy to be honest. It was rapturous. He was playing to a home
:49:21. > :49:25.turf audience. I think that lots of people were there from the student
:49:25. > :49:29.Labour conference. But he definitely told a story about
:49:29. > :49:34.Labour needing to reach out beyond its heartland. That went down very
:49:34. > :49:39.well. He was saying that Labour has done better in this region than
:49:39. > :49:43.perhaps in other areas. But he seemed less sure or why. One of the
:49:43. > :49:50.reasons why that may be the case is that what we have had, particularly
:49:50. > :49:53.in certain cities in the north-west, is a special two-party system where
:49:53. > :49:56.many of the cities where the Conservatives lost ground in the
:49:56. > :50:03.1990s and early part of the 21st century, and therefore the battle
:50:03. > :50:09.has been with the Lib Dems and Labour. That has been a comfortable
:50:09. > :50:12.victory for them. The real test is outside of this area. The real test
:50:12. > :50:17.is how they can persuade people who are not natural Labour supporters
:50:17. > :50:21.to come and vote. It is interesting seeing him, there has been lot of
:50:21. > :50:29.talk about him. Did he come across as a better potential leader and
:50:29. > :50:33.his brother? Perhaps Ed Miliband will come and talk to us and we can
:50:33. > :50:36.make them direct comparisons. We are open to talk to all of the
:50:36. > :50:43.party leaders on that basis. It was very clear that he was comfortable
:50:43. > :50:52.a the spotlight. He was asked very awkward questions that was not just
:50:52. > :50:54.giving the answers people wanted to hear. He stuck to a particular line.
:50:54. > :51:00.Do you think, Yvonne Fovargue, you have picked the wrong future
:51:00. > :51:06.leader? Know, I do not. It has made a great start as leader. He is
:51:06. > :51:10.uniting the party behind him. We must move forward and take control
:51:10. > :51:15.of the next Parliament. Eric, very briefly, who d'you think David
:51:16. > :51:21.Cameron would be more friend of? was Blair Brown with Labour, and
:51:21. > :51:27.now we have Miller Band and Miller Band. It unless -- and now we have
:51:27. > :51:30.Ed Miliband and David Miliband. They must admit that they got us