:01:42. > :01:52.And in the north-west: why buy today as Bowe, will it really stop
:01:52. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :29:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1674 seconds
:29:47. > :29:52.anti-social behaviour. We get the Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. In the next
:29:52. > :29:57.20 minutes - Goodbye, ASBO Hello, CRIMBO. But will it really stop
:29:57. > :30:00.anti-social behaviour? We get the view from the sharp end.
:30:00. > :30:02.But before we get there, let's introduce this week's guests - the
:30:02. > :30:10.conservative MP for Pendle Andrew Stephenson and Labour's Graham
:30:10. > :30:13.Jones for Hyndburn. As I'm sure you'll agree, political
:30:13. > :30:17.jargon is to be avoided. But the word ASBO has entered the
:30:17. > :30:19.dictionary. And it might soon disappear. Because the government's
:30:19. > :30:23.outlined proposals to replace anti social behaviour orders with other
:30:23. > :30:28.measures. That won't go down well with Jack Straw, the Blackburn MP
:30:28. > :30:38.who invented ASBOs in 1998 when he was Home Secretary. On this
:30:38. > :30:40.
:30:40. > :30:46.programme in December he warned the government not to tinker. They have
:30:46. > :30:50.worked, people understand them. They have contributed to this
:30:50. > :30:58.record drop in crime. The first ever period since the war where
:30:58. > :31:07.crime has gone that way, not that way. Don't waste your time,
:31:07. > :31:09.reinventing it. Well maybe Theresa May's not a
:31:09. > :31:11.regular viewer of the Sunday Politics North West. She's
:31:11. > :31:13.certainly ignored Jack Straw's advice and was in Manchester this
:31:13. > :31:16.week outlining her proposals to reform ASBOs.
:31:16. > :31:20.Anti-social behaviour, not quite crime, but it can certainly feel
:31:20. > :31:28.like it. ASBOs were first introduced in 1998. There are now
:31:28. > :31:36.19 types of orders. But are they working? I don't think they've
:31:36. > :31:41.worked a tour. It is worth giving it a go. Communities can get
:31:41. > :31:49.together and putting complaints procedures. They were just carry on
:31:49. > :31:52.doing what they want to do. What can be done? Nothing at all.
:31:52. > :31:56.Home Secretary seems to agree, Theresa May is stamping her ideas
:31:56. > :32:04.down on Manchester and the Hon. They are proposing reducing the
:32:04. > :32:09.number of orders from 19-6, the key ones replacing ASBO will be
:32:09. > :32:16.criminal behaviour orders, and injunctions. It will be begun in
:32:16. > :32:19.Manchester. The community trigger enabled them to say to the police
:32:19. > :32:24.you have to do something about this, Greater Manchester Police are
:32:24. > :32:30.willing to trial this to see how it operates. Some people fear or the
:32:30. > :32:39.Labour government lost focus. the north-west the number of ASBO
:32:39. > :32:45.has peaked at 881, for -- four years ago there were 291, then it
:32:45. > :32:49.increased to 371. In Droylsden in east Manchester, they have problems
:32:49. > :32:54.with anti-social behaviour, they built a youth centre as part of a
:32:54. > :32:58.longer term solution. I feel that they have got such a good
:32:58. > :33:02.relationship with the community, they do know what is going on in
:33:02. > :33:06.terms of anti-social behaviour. If there are problems they are dealt
:33:06. > :33:11.with immediately. The Home Secretary wants a more effective
:33:11. > :33:17.system, the danger is if it is perceived to be a weaker one.
:33:17. > :33:22.We are joined by Lesley Pullman, in her community from north-east
:33:22. > :33:30.Manchester, give us an idea of some of the anti-social behaviour you
:33:30. > :33:34.have had to combat. We have been saying this for 10 years. It is a
:33:34. > :33:42.crime which has been brought down under the umbrella of anti-social
:33:42. > :33:48.behaviour, that is why the ASBO came in. Intimidation, then you
:33:48. > :33:55.start getting intimidated, my vehicle was broken into. Once you
:33:55. > :34:04.start complaining, you have whole families, three families we had,
:34:04. > :34:10.with properties broken into. So, you have to live with it. They will
:34:10. > :34:13.break into your house for nothing. I took them on. You were very
:34:13. > :34:19.successful at that. If the system is reformed in the way the
:34:19. > :34:24.government is proposing, with that help you? No. This is tinkering
:34:24. > :34:28.round the edges. This will create more victims in my opinion, the
:34:28. > :34:37.ethos you have to vilify people before you get anything done, I
:34:37. > :34:41.couldn't get five people to do this on my street. We saw in the peace,
:34:41. > :34:45.the people who we were talking to, ordinary people, they said we are
:34:45. > :34:50.not sure that the current system works. That is because people are
:34:50. > :34:53.usually ignorant of the laws and what they are entitled to. The
:34:53. > :34:58.service providers, the police and council are not doing their jobs
:34:58. > :35:03.properly. Let us pick up with Andrew Stephenson, Lesley is not
:35:03. > :35:08.convinced about these reforms, how would you persuade her? I would say
:35:08. > :35:12.there is going to be a trial. That is in Manchester, in her area. As
:35:12. > :35:17.we saw in the footage, there were conversations with people in
:35:17. > :35:24.Manchester. That was the area are used to work in. I hope during this
:35:24. > :35:31.trial period we will see an improvement on the ASBO has, I am
:35:31. > :35:37.delighted the chief constables have welcomed this. Is it going to be an
:35:37. > :35:41.improvement if it is already working? This is a reduction on a
:35:41. > :35:46.number down to around six categories, we are reducing the
:35:46. > :35:51.bureaucracy. We are allowing the orders to be implemented sooner,
:35:51. > :36:00.which is one of the big concerns. It has become like a badge of
:36:00. > :36:08.honour, almost. That is said a lot. People will be saying in the next
:36:08. > :36:16.few months, the CRIMBO is the badge of honour. They will make a thing
:36:16. > :36:21.of it. There should be nothing like it, it should be saved the order.
:36:21. > :36:25.You can pass on legislation as much as you want. My concern in
:36:25. > :36:31.Lancashire is that we have lost 600 officers. There's no point if
:36:31. > :36:37.officers are being reduced. Labour were introducing legislation left,
:36:37. > :36:41.right and centre before. Crime went down by 43 per cent. A you don't
:36:41. > :36:50.want to see any changes to this? The old ASBO should have been
:36:50. > :36:56.improved, I want to see more people being sent to prison. The looking
:36:56. > :37:04.at the figures, in terms of the number of ASBO imposed on people,
:37:04. > :37:08.it looks as if the government and police took their eye off the ball.
:37:09. > :37:13.The Labour government, I am sorry, but the previous Labour government
:37:13. > :37:18.saw the demise of the ASBO. They lost their nerve, stopped sending
:37:18. > :37:24.people to prison. Once you stop sending them to prison, they
:37:24. > :37:28.continue to preach them. The curfews, the harassment orders.
:37:29. > :37:33.There was a big campaign against the ASBO, people labelled it as a
:37:33. > :37:38.failure and it was not. It got bad press. The government decided they
:37:38. > :37:43.would ease off a little bit, and it was the right direction initially.
:37:43. > :37:49.They should have carried on in that direction and been firmer. Do you
:37:49. > :37:53.want to see more people tackled with these orders? An increase in
:37:53. > :37:59.numbers? Yes, I think it was only about one per cent of cases
:37:59. > :38:04.previously. We have to make sure the victim is the number one in the
:38:04. > :38:13.centre of everything we do. I really do hope for that this trial
:38:13. > :38:17.will reassure people, like Lesley, people with direct experience.
:38:17. > :38:22.ask Theresa May how much they will give us in Manchester to set up a
:38:22. > :38:29.support service directly for law- abiding people to come forward as
:38:29. > :38:32.witnesses, with CRIMBOs, not one penny will be put forward. They
:38:33. > :38:39.will be spending millions on the criminals and criminal families.
:38:40. > :38:43.They will not invest in law-abiding people to come forward. The point
:38:43. > :38:46.that Andrew Stephenson is trying to make is that if you have a
:38:46. > :38:53.situation where there are so many orders, as you have said yourself,
:38:53. > :39:01.some are not even being used, surely making that system slightly
:39:01. > :39:06.quicker will be better. It has not got the teeth of the ASBOs. She
:39:06. > :39:11.says they may go to prison, they will not. I would put money on it.
:39:11. > :39:16.Serious criminals and sex offenders included. The victims are not being
:39:16. > :39:20.put first now. They are being put down the priority order. It takes
:39:20. > :39:25.three calls before the police will actually come, before a referral.
:39:25. > :39:30.They have to come on the first occasion, police have to respond.
:39:30. > :39:35.Not on my third or 4th time. Why do you need five people to report a
:39:35. > :39:40.crime? That is a dreadful situation. This is diluting the law, and goes
:39:40. > :39:43.along with a reduced number of police officers. We have to leave
:39:43. > :39:48.it there, thank you very much indeed.
:39:48. > :39:51.We all know the government's top priority is economic growth and
:39:51. > :39:55.creating jobs, and we also know how much it is struggling to achieve
:39:55. > :39:59.that. Last year the government created local enterprise
:39:59. > :40:05.partnerships, the idea was to bring together business leaders and local
:40:05. > :40:12.authorities to energise an area's economy. One year on, are they
:40:12. > :40:15.working? The every day in the our towns and
:40:15. > :40:20.cities, local enterprise partnerships influence how we live.
:40:20. > :40:29.It is all about localism. Civic leaders deciding on where to direct
:40:29. > :40:33.government funding. The the corridor is going to be taken down,
:40:33. > :40:37.that building will be demolished. In Manchester, some of that funding
:40:38. > :40:44.is going towards regenerating the former Eye Hospital into a centre
:40:44. > :40:47.of research. Mike is the chair of the Greater Manchester l e p, and
:40:47. > :40:50.was voted one of the most influential people in the north-
:40:50. > :40:55.west. He believes the right people are now making decisions about
:40:55. > :40:59.their area. It is very different to Liverpool and Cheshire. We can
:40:59. > :41:04.focus specifically on the needs for locality and make sure the right
:41:04. > :41:09.centres and businesses can grow economically. In my view, Greater
:41:09. > :41:14.Manchester is a great success. We have got better funding, we have
:41:14. > :41:19.the enterprise zone up and running. The also at the list successful
:41:19. > :41:24.bids which will secure money for the expansion of Manchester Airport,
:41:24. > :41:29.and �15 million from the Treasury to help commercialise operations
:41:29. > :41:33.and the University of Manchester. Over in Liverpool, the Local
:41:33. > :41:37.Enterprise Partnership has secured money from a fund of �5 million set
:41:37. > :41:46.aside for local projects. They are using it to develop transport links
:41:46. > :41:50.around Merseyside. That was the expressway, there. We will open up
:41:50. > :41:55.a 43 acre site for a new regional warehouse facility. It will employ
:41:55. > :42:02.thousands. For the future of the region, we must decide where our
:42:02. > :42:07.strength life. As a global city with international links. It is one
:42:08. > :42:15.of the May Gethings. The local enterprise partnerships are in
:42:15. > :42:20.their infancy, this has brought criticisms that it is not enough.
:42:20. > :42:24.We were looking to provide local services, we lost that with these
:42:24. > :42:28.development agencies. With the local Business Link services.
:42:28. > :42:35.Perhaps that is something they should now be looking at. That is
:42:35. > :42:38.what businesses need. There is a dearth of support given the demise.
:42:38. > :42:43.We have had a flavour of what is going on in Manchester and
:42:43. > :42:46.Liverpool, but what about elsewhere? In Lancashire local
:42:46. > :42:50.enterprise partnerships are channelling money into a direct
:42:50. > :42:54.rail link from Burnley to Manchester. In Cheshire, they are
:42:54. > :42:59.encouraging businesses to take a more apprentices. Further north, in
:42:59. > :43:06.Cumbria, the Local Enterprise Partnership has �4.5 million of
:43:06. > :43:11.funding to invest in low carbon businesses. So in some areas
:43:11. > :43:15.progress, but is it enough? I think it will depend. Localism is all
:43:15. > :43:19.about a very mixed picture of this country. For some they are doing
:43:19. > :43:23.very well, for others it is more challenging. They don't have much
:43:23. > :43:31.funding, they don't really have clear powers. It is quite a
:43:31. > :43:36.struggle for many to really be able to invest. So perhaps the Local
:43:36. > :43:43.Enterprise Partnership is still a case of "wait and see". But time is
:43:43. > :43:46.of the essence. Chris Maguire is here, the editor of the north-west
:43:46. > :43:50.insider magazine. You have looked at this in your
:43:50. > :43:56.latest addition, what do you make of it? You have to say the jury is
:43:56. > :44:03.still out. One day if you weren't being kind? A waste of time, a
:44:03. > :44:08.waste of space. The government have given no money, it is without
:44:08. > :44:14.direction. The have a hotchpotch of it across the north-west and the
:44:14. > :44:18.country. Is that what you think? Very much so. In Liverpool you have
:44:18. > :44:24.got 52 members of staff working on this, but you could argue they are
:44:24. > :44:31.going to duplicate services already existing. Are they amalgamated, the
:44:31. > :44:36.staff? So some were amalgamated to create this. You have got Liverpool
:44:36. > :44:42.together with the separate organisation. They had a couple of
:44:42. > :44:47.staff, and in Lancashire, in Cumbria as well, with the local
:44:47. > :44:53.authority and Chamber of Commerce already. Nobody has stuck to the
:44:53. > :44:55.rules. What you have got is no consistency. Maybe it is a good
:44:55. > :45:00.thing that in one part of the north-west you want a slightly
:45:00. > :45:04.different structure to somewhere else? You could argue that by then
:45:04. > :45:07.the start to sound like a politician! I would say that you
:45:07. > :45:12.are looking to create conditions for growth. Bringing people
:45:12. > :45:16.together, big names from the public and private sector, put them in a
:45:16. > :45:20.room and tell them to come up with an idea. The proof is in the
:45:20. > :45:26.pudding, though. The report there, lots of this money was already
:45:26. > :45:30.happening. In the council in Liverpool already. The proof of the
:45:31. > :45:37.pudding will be on delivery. In Liverpool and Manchester especially.
:45:37. > :45:41.There is no consistency, in Manchester the chairman sits with
:45:41. > :45:46.the Lancashire chairman, one is open to the public and one is not.
:45:46. > :45:52.What do you make compared to in Lancashire? Are I am not happy. It
:45:52. > :45:59.is too small scale in Lancashire. There is no ambition. It is the
:45:59. > :46:02.local authority running all the bits. The new system is just a
:46:03. > :46:07.front, I don't think there is much democratic involvement in what is
:46:07. > :46:12.happening. I also think they are small-scale compared to what we had
:46:12. > :46:16.previously. If you ask businesses in Hinde Byrne, they understood the
:46:16. > :46:22.previous system. They knew the point of contact, they knew how to
:46:22. > :46:27.get their business involved. Nobody has heard of this new system.
:46:27. > :46:32.think the jury is still out. They are still finding their feet. We
:46:32. > :46:41.have seen some doing innovative things, some are lagging behind. In
:46:41. > :46:45.my own constituency, we want a East Lancashire system, focused on
:46:45. > :46:50.manufacturing and engineering. we have seen criticism of what we
:46:50. > :46:54.have got at the moment. Whatever was going to happen under this
:46:54. > :47:00.government would have less money, we have less money. That is the
:47:00. > :47:07.problem. If you look at a seat like mine, Lancashire council have been
:47:07. > :47:12.able to deliver 144 time new positions, that is far more than
:47:12. > :47:19.the North West agency ever delivered in their area. They are
:47:19. > :47:23.making some real achievements. -- 140 new positions. The point is,
:47:23. > :47:30.you are crediting that with this new system, but it was the council
:47:30. > :47:33.who got the jobs. It was the chief executive who came in, the point is,
:47:34. > :47:39.they have got a big image problem. Nobody knows what they do, the
:47:39. > :47:45.rhetoric is fine but it is about results. The jury is out. They are
:47:45. > :47:52.going to have to create jobs. One year in, they have not. I agree
:47:53. > :47:56.with you on that. You clearly do as well? A I just think they are a
:47:56. > :48:00.talking shop at the top. Lancashire County Council do all of the work.
:48:00. > :48:06.It is just another tear of bureaucracy. People can relate to
:48:06. > :48:13.it, businesses don't know what it is. Thank you for coming in, Chris.
:48:13. > :48:19.It is time for a round-up of the week's news now.
:48:20. > :48:23.Good news for jobs this week in Barrow, the shipyard got a �328
:48:23. > :48:28.million contract to continue designing the next generation of
:48:28. > :48:33.submarines for the Royal Navy. The company also announced a �2 billion
:48:33. > :48:39.deal to supply Hawk trainer jets to Saudi Arabia. It has secured 200
:48:39. > :48:45.jobs. It is going to expand into the legal sector, bringing 450 new
:48:46. > :48:49.jobs to the region. The less welcome news, a new �2
:48:49. > :48:53.million plan to increase court buildings in Britain will include
:48:53. > :48:56.only 45 in the north-west. Every school in the area which applied
:48:56. > :49:01.was turned down. The the best that Cheshire has to
:49:01. > :49:05.offer went on show in the Houses of Parliament, the event was held by
:49:05. > :49:09.the Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne. Today is an
:49:09. > :49:19.opportunity to raise the voice of Cheshire, and to make sure that it
:49:19. > :49:21.
:49:21. > :49:26.is here in the national capital. Just time to think my guests,
:49:26. > :49:31.Andrew Stephenson, Graham Jones and also Chris Maguire. Thank you for