:01:27. > :01:30.And in the North West: Think one-party state and North
:01:30. > :01:33.Korea comes to mind. But did you know there's a local authority in
:01:33. > :01:43.the region where every single councillor represents the same
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :30:14.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1711 seconds
:30:14. > :30:18.Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. In the next 20 minutes we meet Peter Cranie,
:30:18. > :30:25.the man who hopes to be the new leader of the Green Party.
:30:25. > :30:28.But let me introduce my guests, Michael Meacher, the leader at --
:30:28. > :30:30.the former Labour Minister of State for the Environment and MP for
:30:30. > :30:32.Oldham West and Royton, and Andrew Bingham, the Conservative MP for
:30:32. > :30:36.High Peak. Labour is getting used to appear
:30:36. > :30:39.rude when it is dominating local Government across the North West.
:30:39. > :30:44.The Conservatives have long ago vanished from places like Liverpool
:30:44. > :30:49.and Manchester, but now that they bowled -- and now the Liberal
:30:49. > :30:53.Democrats are disappearing too. Labour controls all but two of the
:30:53. > :30:57.region's metropolitan councils. Is this good for democracy? Elaine
:30:57. > :31:00.Dunkley reports from Knowsley whether 63 councillors are all
:31:00. > :31:04.Labour. When you are think of a one-party
:31:04. > :31:08.state you think of places like North Korea.
:31:08. > :31:12.There the leader can result -- rely on 100% support. No one would
:31:12. > :31:16.expect to see the people of Knowsley marching down the High
:31:16. > :31:22.Street, but they have elected a single party to run the council.
:31:22. > :31:27.All 63 councillors are Labour. are in touch with our communities.
:31:27. > :31:31.Everything else we have done, building schools for the future,
:31:31. > :31:35.delivering first-class facilities for our communities...
:31:35. > :31:40.In the local elections it was total wipeout for all four Liberal
:31:40. > :31:44.Democrat councillors. But is it healthy to run it council without
:31:44. > :31:51.opposition? It is very healthy for me. I have never felt better in my
:31:51. > :31:54.life! The one thing I would have to look at now is how we do our
:31:54. > :32:00.council meetings. I am sure that the members of the public would not
:32:00. > :32:04.want to just sit through a council meeting with everything just going
:32:04. > :32:08.through at full support. The leader of the council might be
:32:08. > :32:13.happy, but there is concern that single party councils could result
:32:13. > :32:22.in a multitude of problems. Democracy needs genuine competition
:32:22. > :32:25.between political parties. Voters will respond, they will not turn
:32:25. > :32:30.out, they think the result is a foregone conclusion, and democracy
:32:30. > :32:34.was suffer if. This area has always been a Labour
:32:34. > :32:39.heartland. Politics is at times like football and religion -
:32:39. > :32:49.loyalty can be passed down through generations, but many people feel
:32:49. > :32:49.
:32:49. > :32:55.here it is a backlash against the Coalition. I do not think anybody -
:32:55. > :32:59.- I thought -- I think some people think it was -- thought it was a
:32:59. > :33:06.general election and they just voted against conservative.
:33:06. > :33:11.people are brainwashed. You have his statue of Harold Wilson. That
:33:11. > :33:21.is how much people law of labour. Has your family always voted
:33:21. > :33:21.
:33:21. > :33:23.Labour? Yes. We have always voted Labour. I think it does more for
:33:23. > :33:30.the working class than the middle class.
:33:30. > :33:32.With Knowsley delivering a Labour landslide, some political
:33:32. > :33:40.commentators are concerned that the first-past-the-post system is
:33:40. > :33:44.delivering deadlock, not democracy. Further north our cousins in
:33:44. > :33:48.Scotland use a system called the single transferable vote. Broadly
:33:48. > :33:52.speaking you match the party's number of seats with their share of
:33:52. > :33:57.the vote to achieve proportional representation. Bringing about a
:33:57. > :34:00.new system has its critics - some say it means that you have almost
:34:00. > :34:04.endless coalitions and bargaining behind the scenes, some say it
:34:04. > :34:08.weakens the link with individual councillors. But no one would
:34:08. > :34:10.disagree that it has created a greater diversity in Scotland's
:34:11. > :34:14.councils. It may be good news for Labour in
:34:14. > :34:18.Knowsley, but there is concern that a lack of opposition is bad news
:34:18. > :34:23.for politics. We are joined by Louis cobalt from
:34:23. > :34:26.the think tank the Institute of Public Policy Research. Is this a
:34:27. > :34:31.problem? It is a problem because it reflects a much bigger problem
:34:31. > :34:35.which is a lack of democratic engagement in local Government. In
:34:35. > :34:45.Knowsley turnout was in the low twenties. In some wards, Manchester
:34:45. > :34:50.for example, it was 9%. Low turnout is a problem, but is it a specific
:34:50. > :34:53.problem if one party ends up dominating it cancel? All we know
:34:53. > :34:58.from different examples across the world is that it is not conducive
:34:58. > :35:02.to good policy-making. You tend to have factions within councils. And
:35:02. > :35:09.if you are living in with the -- in a council which is all Labour or
:35:09. > :35:15.Tory, you think, what is the point in voting? I am not sure what the
:35:15. > :35:19.voters are thinking that. 20% are. It is not a criticism of any
:35:19. > :35:24.particular party. There are councils in the south of England
:35:24. > :35:28.which a Conservative dominated, but it is a problem which is reflective
:35:28. > :35:33.of a real lack of engagement. Most of our local councils do not have
:35:33. > :35:36.enough power. We have seen a gradual leakage of power and
:35:36. > :35:42.responsibility down to Whitehall over 30 years, and both parties
:35:42. > :35:47.have been responsible. Research by us shows that if you give more
:35:47. > :35:51.power to local councils, people will be more likely to vote. He is
:35:51. > :35:57.there any evidence that in councils where they are dominated by his
:35:57. > :36:03.single party, but they are run as well? I would not want to 0.2
:36:03. > :36:07.specific councils and say they are not being run as well... But
:36:07. > :36:17.certainly it is a big problem with regards to people turning out and
:36:17. > :36:18.
:36:18. > :36:22.voting. Michael Meacher, is it quite nice if Labour is dominating
:36:22. > :36:27.a council? I do not think it is healthy when one party controls all
:36:27. > :36:31.the seats, although I do not think we should lose trust in democracy,
:36:31. > :36:36.because if they start to behave badly than the voters will
:36:36. > :36:42.certainly begin to vote for other parties. The fact is, even if you
:36:42. > :36:47.have a single monolith, different groups, factions will begin to form,
:36:47. > :36:52.and the opposition will form within that governing party. But I still
:36:52. > :36:55.think it is not desirable. If you have two options - one is the
:36:55. > :36:59.Scottish solution, proportional representation. The trouble with
:36:59. > :37:04.that is that it works in Scotland because the SNP is already very
:37:04. > :37:09.powerful, and the balance between them and Labour could go any way,
:37:09. > :37:13.but in Knowsley I do not think that is true. If the Lib Dem and Tory
:37:13. > :37:19.voters combined, they would still not thought about Labour. So I
:37:19. > :37:24.think the real problem is that people's lack of interest in local
:37:24. > :37:28.democracy. You have to increase the financial capability and the power
:37:28. > :37:32.of local Government. At the moment it is the agent of Whitehall, and
:37:32. > :37:35.people think the local authority cannot do very much. That is what
:37:35. > :37:40.needs to change, and then more people will vote and we will get
:37:40. > :37:46.greater diversity. Do you agree with that? I think that is a fair
:37:46. > :37:51.point. I spent 12 years on a local authority, and you are frustrated
:37:51. > :37:56.because you are in agent of Whitehall. But I think it is
:37:56. > :38:00.incumbent on people like Michael and myself to get people to vote.
:38:00. > :38:07.Do you think if High Peak was dominated purely by the
:38:07. > :38:11.Conservative Party, it would be a good thing? I think that, but I
:38:12. > :38:16.think a single council dominated by in the colour is not healthy. It is
:38:16. > :38:20.healthy to have an opposition way you can challenge ideas, and have
:38:20. > :38:26.different views. We all probably what the same thing... I thought
:38:26. > :38:29.you up party was divorcing things back to local Government? That is
:38:29. > :38:34.the thing. When local Government have power to do things and change
:38:34. > :38:38.things, if more people will want to stand for council, become
:38:38. > :38:45.councillors, and more people will get to vote and stand to vote in
:38:45. > :38:49.local elections. There is a wider danger for the North of England
:38:49. > :38:54.that both parties forget about it. If the Labour control of the North
:38:55. > :39:00.continues, then everybody will take it for granted. The Conservative
:39:00. > :39:05.Party needs to form -- gain new seats. But they will continue to
:39:05. > :39:10.think we have to concentrate our efforts elsewhere. So there is a
:39:10. > :39:14.danger for political monogamy in the North of England. But there is
:39:14. > :39:18.an increasing polarisation within the country, but the South is
:39:18. > :39:22.dominated by the Tories and the North by Labour. Because the
:39:22. > :39:27.economy is splitting, the dynamism is in the south and the financial
:39:27. > :39:31.sectors, and the old industrial areas of the North have not really
:39:31. > :39:35.revived and they are not really yet the driving force of the country.
:39:35. > :39:39.So you might want Tories to do better in the north and Labour in
:39:39. > :39:44.the south, but it is not going to happen unless we have a major
:39:44. > :39:47.change of policy. Thank you for coming in for.
:39:47. > :39:53.It the Liberal Democrats continued to struggle in the North West,
:39:53. > :39:59.could there be an opportunity for other parties? The Greens hope so.
:39:59. > :40:02.In September Caroline Lucas steps down, and this week a college
:40:02. > :40:07.lecturer and Green Party politician from Liverpool, Peter Cranie,
:40:07. > :40:12.announced he once the leader's job. So what other challenges facing the
:40:12. > :40:16.Greens and could he improve their chances?
:40:16. > :40:24.The Green Party emerged in the 1980s, as people began to worry
:40:24. > :40:28.about the environment. At the 2010 election it flowered, and the Green
:40:28. > :40:32.Party leader Caroline Lucas became its first MP. But beyond that major
:40:32. > :40:37.success are underlying problems. Lancaster is some with the Greens
:40:37. > :40:43.have done well, but last year they lost four seats on the council.
:40:43. > :40:47.Do you miss life at the Town Hall? John Whitelegg stood down
:40:47. > :40:51.voluntarily as a councillor and thinks the party needs to offer
:40:51. > :40:56.voters more than environmental stuff. If we want Britain to work
:40:56. > :41:02.in a much fairer way, a much more social justice linked way, so that
:41:02. > :41:07.we do not have the highest rate of child policy -- poverty of any EU
:41:07. > :41:12.country, and I think we genuinely believe that and work on that, but
:41:12. > :41:18.we are not getting that message of fur. Could this be the man to do
:41:18. > :41:22.it? Peter Cranie wants to focus on social justice. What people need to
:41:22. > :41:27.see is an ordinary person who cares about the issues that they care
:41:27. > :41:31.about. The major parties have tried to race off with the environmental
:41:32. > :41:40.agenda themselves. So the Greens have only enjoyed limited electoral
:41:40. > :41:43.success. In 1997, the party got 0.2% of the vote, it then increased
:41:43. > :41:48.at the two subsequent general elections before falling back
:41:48. > :41:54.slightly last time when they got their first MP. This year's local
:41:54. > :42:00.elections saw the Greens winning 40 of the 4,800 seats up for grabs, in
:42:00. > :42:05.net gain of ten. There most recent election
:42:05. > :42:09.manifesto was not really taken seriously. No one believes you can
:42:09. > :42:12.offer free school meals for everyone. If there elected leader
:42:12. > :42:17.in September, Peter Cranie will want to attract new supporters and
:42:17. > :42:22.not just those worried about the environment.
:42:22. > :42:25.Peter Cranie joins me in the studio. When you made this decision to
:42:25. > :42:30.stand for leader, was that a difficult personal decision to
:42:30. > :42:34.make? I think you have got to recognise it is a very tough job at
:42:34. > :42:40.this stage in our development. The Green Party is close to making
:42:40. > :42:44.breakthroughs, electorally, in a number of the EU regions. So it is
:42:44. > :42:49.a job that has to be done successfully. So I carefully
:42:49. > :42:53.considered it and I believe I am the person to get us that electoral
:42:53. > :42:56.success. What makes you think you are someone who has got the real
:42:56. > :43:01.attributes to lead a party nationally and lead it to the kind
:43:01. > :43:05.of success you want to see? I think people today are looking at
:43:05. > :43:09.politicians and thinking they are in it for themselves, and people
:43:09. > :43:15.want to see a person like them standing in politics. In the last
:43:15. > :43:19.five years I have had to got -- go through what a lot of people have
:43:19. > :43:24.had to go through. And I think knowing that real life experience
:43:24. > :43:30.is going to be a real asset for me in communicating Green Party
:43:30. > :43:35.policies and getting across our agenda. Net a say in September you
:43:35. > :43:39.are successful. -- let us say. What is the most fundamental thing you
:43:39. > :43:44.want to change? With have got some exceptionally good practice in
:43:44. > :43:51.certain areas, we have councillors in certain locations like Brighton
:43:51. > :43:56.and knowledge, and we Majid -- what by seek his us sharing practice
:43:56. > :43:59.better and taking that best practice and using it everywhere. I
:43:59. > :44:03.think electorally there is an opportunity for a party which will
:44:03. > :44:13.speak differently and offer a distinctive policies from the red,
:44:13. > :44:14.
:44:14. > :44:19.blue, yellow parties. So what about abolishing the men -- the monarchy?
:44:19. > :44:23.Perhaps not after the Jubilee! But we stand for that on the basis that
:44:23. > :44:28.we think the head of state should be elected. I think that is an
:44:28. > :44:33.decision that should be made by the British people. But certainly that
:44:33. > :44:38.is an idea we will put forward along with for example abolishing
:44:38. > :44:47.the Trident nuclear deterrent. The other parties have a consensus,
:44:47. > :44:52.with a few individuals exceptions. Or legalising drugs? What we'd be
:44:52. > :44:57.do is say that we would look at it Queen's commission into drugs, and
:44:57. > :45:05.say, what is the evidence here? So when the Government regraded
:45:05. > :45:09.cannabis back from seat back to be. That was a decision that was not
:45:09. > :45:17.listening to what was best in terms of medical advice and social
:45:17. > :45:22.impacts. But in general terms, is that -- your political strategy to
:45:22. > :45:27.almost move the Green Party, and maybe it is already there, but to
:45:27. > :45:32.outflank the other political parties on the left? I think if you
:45:32. > :45:35.talk took ordinary people, they are not really bothered about left and
:45:35. > :45:40.right wing, they are interested in what are the policies that affect
:45:40. > :45:46.them? They want a house that is warm in winter, energy costs that
:45:46. > :45:51.are affordable, and they want to work. Those are the issues we are
:45:51. > :45:55.going to focus on, the issues that mean we can relate to ordinary
:45:55. > :46:00.people. Let us bring in Michael Meacher, a former environment
:46:00. > :46:04.minister. Why do you think it is, giving your own interest in green
:46:04. > :46:14.policies, that the Green Party has not done better? They clearly have
:46:14. > :46:15.
:46:15. > :46:19.been doing better as we saw a moment ago. Voters have been going
:46:19. > :46:24.up slightly, but what happens with minority parties is that they send
:46:24. > :46:28.a warning signal to the main parties would then take over much
:46:28. > :46:34.of birds -- Policies. I regard myself as a green banister in the
:46:34. > :46:44.Labour Government. Was part of that thinking, let us Crapper some of
:46:44. > :46:45.
:46:45. > :46:51.those falters? No, -- let us grab. No, I was thinking about a range of
:46:52. > :46:56.policies, energy matters, recycling,... The you think if
:46:56. > :47:00.Peter Cranie is successful and he starts pushing more of his social
:47:00. > :47:08.justice agenda, do you think there is a potential for him to outflank
:47:09. > :47:13.the mainstream parties? Frankly, I doubt it. Because way you have a
:47:13. > :47:18.first-past-the-post system, it is extremely difficult for small
:47:18. > :47:22.parties actually to look in and get traction. What happens is that if
:47:22. > :47:27.they begin to be successful, the large parties take over the
:47:27. > :47:32.policies. That is not bad for the parties but to fix -- the country,
:47:32. > :47:37.but it is bad for the small parties. If what happened to the
:47:37. > :47:43.Conservatives? You were supposed to be an environmental party. There
:47:43. > :47:48.are various green issues we are concentrating on. Green technology
:47:48. > :47:55.has a part to play on building the country up again. I think it will
:47:55. > :48:00.build employment. But you are cutting, for example, support to
:48:00. > :48:05.social energy -- Solar Energy. One council has said they do not want
:48:05. > :48:09.wind farms... The whole feed-in tariff issue, the cut in the
:48:09. > :48:15.terrace was brought about because the costs of Solar images have
:48:15. > :48:20.plummeted. You can over subsidise in one section of renewable energy,
:48:20. > :48:26.so there will be more subsidy for more people for longer. A final
:48:26. > :48:31.brief word for you, Peter. Do see the other parties as a threat?
:48:31. > :48:38.part of the reeds and we have not seen more of a breakthrough is the
:48:38. > :48:45.first past the post system. Sorry, we are running late on time.
:48:45. > :48:47.Time for the rest of the week's political news. The Chair of
:48:48. > :48:50.Merseytravel, Mark Dowd, has announced he isn't going to stand
:48:50. > :48:58.for re-election, after half of the Labour councillors on the authority
:48:58. > :49:01.revealed they're not backing him. Lancashire's Acting Chief Constable
:49:01. > :49:04.Chris Weigh told his police authority this week that the loss
:49:04. > :49:10.of over 500 of police officers had inevitably contributed to a rise in
:49:10. > :49:13.crime in the county. Sellafield's Thermal Oxide
:49:13. > :49:16.Reprocessing Plant in Cumbria is set to close. The plant will stop
:49:16. > :49:18.production by 2018, and it will take another couple of years to run
:49:18. > :49:25.it down completely. The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority hopes
:49:25. > :49:28.many of the 800 workers will be redeployed.
:49:28. > :49:31.And a Wigan company apologised after 80 people working as stewards
:49:31. > :49:34.at the Jubilee celebrations were left under London Bridge at 3:00 in