:01:36. > :01:38.Been the North West, we are live in Manchester city centre as delegates
:01:39. > :01:48.gather for the Labour Party conference, talking to the leader,
:01:49. > :01:49.
:01:49. > :37:02.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2113 seconds
:37:02. > :37:07.Ed Miliband, and former Home A welcome to the Labour Party
:37:07. > :37:10.annual conference here in Manchester. I am Elaine Dunkley
:37:10. > :37:13.with the Sunday Politics in the North West. The Liberal Democrats
:37:13. > :37:18.have told us about the financial mess Labour has left behind and the
:37:18. > :37:22.tough decisions they have had to make. So is Ed Miliband ready to
:37:22. > :37:32.take on the big decisions needed in Government? I have been to Burnley
:37:32. > :37:34.
:37:34. > :37:40.to find out whether he is in tune This is one of the purest the areas
:37:40. > :37:44.of Burnley. The town is one of the benefit hotspots of Britain. And it
:37:44. > :37:49.is a big talking point. -- this is one of the poorest areas Mackle
:37:49. > :37:54.Burnley. It is not fear that we are getting punished and people that
:37:54. > :37:58.have many are getting away with it. I have seen people struggling just
:37:58. > :38:02.putting food on the table. Well 1,000 people here are claiming
:38:02. > :38:08.benefit and most will be affected by a major shake-up of the welfare
:38:08. > :38:12.system. -- 12,000 people. There seems to be cut after cut coming.
:38:12. > :38:21.The Eastleigh Borough Council believes benefits should be cut,
:38:21. > :38:25.but thinks people are being penalised. -- this Labour
:38:25. > :38:30.councillor believes benefits should be cut, but believes people are
:38:30. > :38:37.being penalised. They are not many jobs out there. They have not
:38:37. > :38:41.stepped up to the plate like the Government said it would.
:38:41. > :38:46.Universal Credit will mean a single payment to replace all benefits.
:38:46. > :38:50.For most people, it will be capped at a maximum of �500 per week.
:38:50. > :38:56.Housing benefit will also be deducted for rooms that are not
:38:56. > :39:00.occupied. I only have basics. I wonder how I will cover for that
:39:00. > :39:06.spare room. What it means downsizing, which means that my
:39:06. > :39:10.young boy cannot come and visit and stay with me. Tough times require
:39:10. > :39:16.tough decisions. Last year in Burnley alone, �200 million was
:39:16. > :39:20.paid out in benefits. Despite this, Labour leader Ed Miliband does not
:39:20. > :39:24.believe the coalition Cup has been well thought out. The Liberal
:39:24. > :39:28.Democrats MP for the town however thinks the cap is too high and will
:39:28. > :39:33.be used to subsidise rents elsewhere. I suggested 12,000 would
:39:33. > :39:35.be adequate. The average salary in Burnley is �18,000 per year. My
:39:36. > :39:42.constituents should not pay for people living in housing they
:39:42. > :39:49.cannot afford in London. Do you think people should only be allowed
:39:49. > :39:52.a certain amount of benefits? we will then not have problems with
:39:52. > :40:02.the next generation. People will have to work if there are no
:40:02. > :40:03.
:40:03. > :40:08.benefits. People will suffer if they do captured. -- if it is cap.
:40:08. > :40:11.This week, Ed Miliband will set out the agenda on welfare reform. The
:40:12. > :40:15.challenge is to persuade voters of the benefits of Labour.
:40:15. > :40:23.Earlier this week, we caught up with Ed Miliband.
:40:23. > :40:29.Mr Miliband, there is the proposed benefit cap of �26,000. Who in the
:40:29. > :40:34.North West needs more than �26,000 in benefits? I think the principle
:40:34. > :40:39.of a benefits cap on a regional basis is right. But we have always
:40:39. > :40:43.said housing benefit levels on a regional basis. We should do that
:40:43. > :40:49.similarly won a regional basis when it comes to an overall benefits cut.
:40:49. > :40:53.That tends to make sense. But one thing we have to do is crack down
:40:53. > :41:00.on private landlords. This 26,000 takes account of money paid to
:41:00. > :41:05.private landlords. I want a benefit cap, but one that works. What sort
:41:05. > :41:10.of figure? Eric Pickles himself, the Local Government Secretary,
:41:10. > :41:14.wrote a letter before the benefits Cup legislation was introduced,
:41:14. > :41:21.saying it would not work, driving people into temporary bed-and-
:41:21. > :41:26.breakfast accommodation, not at -- not achieving the benefits. I would
:41:26. > :41:32.be very surprised that people were receiving �26,000 and benefits. Do
:41:32. > :41:37.you wanted to be tighter than that? It is taking account of money paid
:41:37. > :41:46.directly to landlords. We have to tackle road -- we have to tackle
:41:46. > :41:52.rogue landlords. We need a cap that works across the country. I do not
:41:52. > :41:56.want you to plug a figure. Make a judgment. The principle of a
:41:56. > :42:02.benefits Cup is right, but we must do it right, that does not cost
:42:02. > :42:07.extra money. We do not want to drive people into temporary
:42:07. > :42:13.accommodation, which I fear the proposal will. People want this to
:42:13. > :42:18.be fair. Talking about benefits is a problem in the North West, with
:42:18. > :42:23.unemployment currently a 9%, about 300,000 people. At which you do you
:42:23. > :42:27.think unemployment began to rise in the region? I will not play at quiz
:42:27. > :42:33.game, we just need to sort out the unemployment problem. There was a
:42:33. > :42:38.recession... Let me tell you, it was 2005, the year the Labour
:42:38. > :42:44.Government came in. It can continue to increase up to 2010. This is not
:42:44. > :42:47.a recent problem. There are pick, chronic problems of unemployment.
:42:47. > :42:51.But there is also the fact that we have seen unemployment at its
:42:51. > :42:55.highest level for 17 years since the last time there was a Tory
:42:55. > :42:59.Government. That is happening because the economy is shrinking,
:42:59. > :43:04.not growing, and I believe we can make a difference. The conference
:43:04. > :43:08.is about rebuilding Britain's economy. You did not make the
:43:08. > :43:12.difference during your time in Government. We did, but there was a
:43:12. > :43:19.recession. The theme of the conferences rebuilding Britain's
:43:19. > :43:25.economy. One day 1, if I was Prime Minister, I would level a backbone
:43:25. > :43:33.as tax, using the money to put young people back into work. -- I
:43:33. > :43:41.would level a bank bonus tax. investing in rail, new bridges over
:43:41. > :43:47.the mayor's seat, investing in new airport link road. -- new bridges
:43:47. > :43:51.over the River Mersey. If you think places like Manchester and
:43:51. > :43:53.Liverpool were doing worse under the last Labour Government that
:43:53. > :43:57.this Conservative Government, I think most people would disagree
:43:57. > :44:03.with you. It is right we invest in infrastructure, that is really
:44:03. > :44:07.important. But if the economy is not growing, if there is no demand,
:44:07. > :44:12.businesses are not getting orders, the infrastructure is not going to
:44:12. > :44:16.solve the problem. Yes to more infrastructure, but yes also to an
:44:16. > :44:21.economy that is growing. That is the big difference between us and
:44:21. > :44:31.the current Government. Thank you very much and hope you enjoy the
:44:31. > :44:35.
:44:35. > :44:45.conference. I'm well, thank you. -- I'm well, thank you. SOUND
:44:45. > :45:01.
:45:01. > :45:05.By I'm joined now by Jack Straw and Jon Tonge. Mr Straw, you have
:45:05. > :45:10.contributed to previous Labour General Election victories. How
:45:10. > :45:15.important is conference to Labour? The conference at this stage, have
:45:15. > :45:20.we threw the electoral cycle, is very important at setting the tone
:45:20. > :45:25.for that long pre-election run-in to the General Election likely in
:45:25. > :45:32.2015. It is really important. The challenge for any opposition leader.
:45:32. > :45:36.We picked up some of this in that interview with Ed Miliband. The
:45:36. > :45:41.challenge is not to get to committed to policy, because the
:45:41. > :45:44.Tories more rapid round our neck. But also do not travel empty. There
:45:44. > :45:48.is a fine balance illustrating there is a vision there, giving
:45:48. > :45:55.some detail, but also recognising there is no way we can make
:45:55. > :46:00.detailed decisions 2.5 years before a General Election. His Labour
:46:01. > :46:04.running on empty at the moment? I thought we might be too much in
:46:04. > :46:09.opposition, and although there are people around the party saying we
:46:09. > :46:13.should just a pose and put things back, which is impossible, Ed
:46:13. > :46:17.Miliband and his colleagues are taking some responsible positions,
:46:17. > :46:25.especially on this critical issue of public spending and public
:46:25. > :46:29.sector pay. Jon, what other challenges facing Labour? One is
:46:29. > :46:33.from straying Ed Miliband as a Prime Minister in waiting. -- One
:46:33. > :46:37.is portraying Ed Miliband. You could your jaws dropping when Ed
:46:37. > :46:41.Miliband was elected leader. People thought this was someone being
:46:41. > :46:45.promoted beyond his means. That debate has now been put to bed. It
:46:45. > :46:50.is now about whether Ed Miliband is a Prime Minister in waiting. Few
:46:50. > :46:56.people beyond the conference will believe he is. The second is policy,
:46:56. > :47:00.it is not enough to wait for the opposition to implode. Without
:47:00. > :47:07.producing a draft election manifesto, we need clear policy
:47:07. > :47:12.ideas in an era of austerity, with no money to spend. What areas does
:47:12. > :47:17.leader need ideas on? We need clarity on the policy of Universal
:47:17. > :47:22.Credit. Labour has been to some extent all over the place. Clarity
:47:22. > :47:26.on Education's, Free Schools, the NHS, although Andy Burnham has
:47:26. > :47:30.offered some clear pledges. We need clarity on the economy. Ed Balls
:47:30. > :47:33.has topped a tough game this weekend about you ruthless on
:47:33. > :47:41.spending, but at a rate cut that the coalition Government has tried
:47:41. > :47:45.to introduce, effectively, Labour opposition has tried to oppose. The
:47:45. > :47:55.need to be clear about what is up for axing, what is up for
:47:55. > :48:01.preserving. Das Ed Miliband and ask for advice? Plenty. -- does Ed
:48:01. > :48:04.Miliband ask for advice? What does he say? It is not quite correct
:48:04. > :48:09.that we have opposed everything the Tories have done, although I
:48:09. > :48:15.understand Jon's criticism, but being in opposition you are pushed
:48:15. > :48:20.by the trade unions, pressure groups, but if for example you take
:48:20. > :48:24.the big cuts in legal aid, most of them, not all, were once that I had
:48:24. > :48:30.won the stocks. It would be impossible to restore these,
:48:30. > :48:34.because I started some of them. That is true in a lot of areas. The
:48:34. > :48:39.difficulty we have an opposition is the fact that many of the cuts the
:48:39. > :48:45.Tories are making a taking place in a very unfair way. That is why we
:48:45. > :48:51.get into this. So not that -- so that is giving the impression you
:48:51. > :48:54.oppose everything? It does. We have to be tougher with our allies and
:48:54. > :48:59.say we are sorry, the easy way is to walk through the lobbies and
:48:59. > :49:03.vote against this, but the truth is we will not be to back when in
:49:03. > :49:07.Government. It would have been tight if we had been in Government.
:49:07. > :49:11.That is just the reality. There is a big, difficult issue with people
:49:11. > :49:18.in the public sector. I understand a fact that people in the public
:49:18. > :49:22.sector have not had a pay rise. But there is an equation there between
:49:22. > :49:29.extra jobs for people or more money for people with jobs. The party has
:49:29. > :49:33.to come down on the part of more jobs. We shall leave it there. Won
:49:33. > :49:39.-- one man who should know how it Labour MPs are appealing about Ed
:49:39. > :49:47.Miliband is with Elaine Dunkley. -- a feeling about.
:49:47. > :49:53.The Banksy are, I am joined by Dave Watts, the MP.
:49:53. > :49:58.-- thank you. He represents the party's back benches. Thank you for
:49:58. > :50:03.joining us. 25% of the Labour Party is made up of people from the North
:50:03. > :50:08.West. Do the big move leader understands this region? I think
:50:08. > :50:12.people feel this leader does. He could be different in the fact that
:50:12. > :50:17.he understands the issue of the North-South divide, dealing with
:50:17. > :50:20.high levels of unemployment and poverty we have, so I think this
:50:20. > :50:26.leader does listen and I think he will develop policies that will
:50:26. > :50:31.help the North West. Is there still a position that he is an Oxbridge
:50:31. > :50:38.sudden intellectual? Not really. I don't think most people a kitten
:50:38. > :50:41.that week. -- Sudden intellectual. He spends far more time with the
:50:41. > :50:46.back benches, going out of its way to make sure that he knows what
:50:46. > :50:51.people are saying. In my meetings with them, it is clear he is not
:50:51. > :50:56.elitist, he is in touch with what real people think. That is what he
:50:56. > :51:01.is trying to do, trying to change policy so that we will be a party
:51:01. > :51:05.that represents the aspirations of everyone, including the North West.
:51:05. > :51:15.Are we still heaving rumblings of discussion between Ed Miliband and
:51:15. > :51:21.David Miliband, or a MPs bully behind the leader? -- or carpet MPs
:51:21. > :51:25.fully behind the leader? You never really hear that. What
:51:26. > :51:32.are you going to do to ensure that, in places like Burnley, Lancashire,
:51:32. > :51:40.St Helens, you will gain seats? In 2010, we were comparatively did
:51:40. > :51:44.very poorly. Yes, and we need to do well, we need policies to attract
:51:44. > :51:48.the electorate. I believe Ed Miliband will do that. He is
:51:48. > :51:54.talking about taking on vested interests. It is time to do that.
:51:54. > :51:59.Not just the media, banks, it is the energy companies, different
:51:59. > :52:08.agencies we need to represent people on. Thank you for joining us.
:52:08. > :52:12.Enjoy the conference. Thank you very much. Jon, what you
:52:12. > :52:18.are saying as the party should be doing better? It has to do better.
:52:18. > :52:22.If Labour believes the 10% lead in the polls is sufficient, no
:52:22. > :52:26.opposition has won a General Election without being at least 20%
:52:26. > :52:30.ahead around the mid-term. That shows this year scale of their task.
:52:30. > :52:34.Ed Miliband polls way behind David Cameron on issues such as
:52:34. > :52:38.decisiveness. There is the leader factor and the general Labour
:52:38. > :52:44.backed up. It is not impossible to be the largest party, but there
:52:44. > :52:50.could be a hung parliament. They were lost and many voters. How many
:52:50. > :52:55.have actually come back? There is not many declaring so far. There is
:52:55. > :53:00.a big task for Labour. Mr Straw, you have served with winners and
:53:00. > :53:05.losers. What can Ed Miliband do to better connect with the country and
:53:05. > :53:11.the way Jon is describing? He has to do more about what Tory cutters
:53:11. > :53:19.was talking about, coming across to ordinary people. -- do more about
:53:19. > :53:24.Dave Watts was talking about. But if we talked about things like the
:53:24. > :53:28.distributions, the audience would dissolve rapidly. You need to
:53:28. > :53:33.ensure to deal with the causes of inequality, rather than just the
:53:33. > :53:39.effects. Jon is right. I would not put it quite how he does. 10% at
:53:39. > :53:43.this stage is not a guarantee by any means of victory. One of the
:53:43. > :53:48.most important things Ed Miliband has to do is ensure no one retreats
:53:48. > :53:51.into some sort of comfort zone and thinks that they can come out with
:53:51. > :53:56.extravagant claims which the public will not notice. We are doing much
:53:56. > :54:00.better than parts of the country, including the North West. We still
:54:00. > :54:06.have quite a long way to go in seats in the south and South West.
:54:06. > :54:09.And part of outer London, which we need to form a majority. Jon, is
:54:09. > :54:14.there no tension between appealing to the North West, where they are
:54:14. > :54:19.now controlling 21 councils out of about 36, and appealing to other
:54:19. > :54:24.parts of the country? The thing with New Labour was building
:54:24. > :54:27.coalitions between Labour heartland voters and swing voters in the
:54:27. > :54:32.Midlands and the South, who were perhaps less naturally Labour, and
:54:32. > :54:35.that is about Labour winning the next General Election, getting both
:54:35. > :54:40.those pools of voters. They still have the Labour heartlands, but the
:54:40. > :54:44.need to go beyond that. The question is achieving that. Ed
:54:44. > :54:47.Miliband is not quite a creature of the North, so could appeal to
:54:47. > :54:52.voters in the south, but people have not made the jump back to
:54:52. > :54:56.Labour in the way that is needed. do not think there is a
:54:56. > :55:00.disconnection between voters we need to appeal in the North West,
:55:00. > :55:05.affluent voters whose lifestyle aspirations is no different from
:55:05. > :55:08.the south or South West. But Jon is right that new Labour did a huge
:55:08. > :55:17.amount, also winning three elections, was able to get this
:55:17. > :55:23.coalition together. That is the big challenge on us. And Ed Miliband
:55:23. > :55:27.went back as party leader? He has already shown within the party,
:55:27. > :55:33.where there was a high degree of scepticism when he was elected, not
:55:34. > :55:37.least in the Parliamentary party, that has changed. People's
:55:37. > :55:43.perceptions can change, because he is now delivering and performing.
:55:43. > :55:49.That will change again. I am confident that we can win. But it
:55:49. > :55:55.is miles away from being in the back. I am asking you briefly how
:55:55. > :56:02.you move to a position rapidly would it can be. One of the things
:56:02. > :56:08.I bring out in my book is that you have to reach out to. Leaders when
:56:08. > :56:15.it BAA takes on vested interest, including in the party itself. --
:56:15. > :56:20.leaders win if taking on vested interests. There can be extravagant
:56:20. > :56:28.union leaders, but will not win in the country if not challenging that.
:56:28. > :56:31.It is time for 60 seconds with Euan Doak.
:56:31. > :56:35.Social workers, police and prosecutors all failed to protect
:56:35. > :56:39.dozens of children in Rochdale from sexual exploitation, a report said
:56:39. > :56:44.this week, following the conviction of nine men board grooming. Kelvin
:56:44. > :56:48.MacKenzie wants an apology from South Yorkshire Police, blaming the
:56:49. > :56:51.force of his infamous headline after the Hillsborough disaster.
:56:51. > :56:57.Liverpool MP Maria Eagle said he should have used his critical
:56:57. > :57:05.faculties. A Lib Dem reveals more about working under Eric Pickles.
:57:05. > :57:11.Eric got on like a house on fire. There is plenty of flames and smoke.
:57:11. > :57:15.Manchester City Council says it did not hit the wrong note spending
:57:15. > :57:19.�425,000 to stage a concert. The council says it will boost the
:57:19. > :57:24.city's global profile. And life in the slow lane, the Government has
:57:24. > :57:29.approved at 10 knots speed limit on Windermere. There will be
:57:29. > :57:35.exceptions for special events, like the plan to land a replica of
:57:35. > :57:42.Britain's first seedling. -- seat plane. Jack Straw has
:57:42. > :57:47.brought out his autobiography this week. You have been an MP -- a
:57:47. > :57:52.black bun MP for 30 years, how much did that into wins your time as a
:57:52. > :58:00.Minister? It influenced it hugely. One of the great strengths of the
:58:00. > :58:05.system is you can be as high as you like, but you or your job as a
:58:05. > :58:11.Member of Parliament. -- but you owe your job. What Ireland and
:58:11. > :58:16.Blackburn made a fantastic difference to my life than politics.
:58:16. > :58:21.-- what I learnt in Blackburn. It was because of that that I stayed
:58:21. > :58:28.in touch with people. Labour's big law and order agenda, to make
:58:28. > :58:35.Europe the areas say there was drawn from that kind of experience.
:58:35. > :58:44.-- to make areas that a purer safer was drawn from that kind of
:58:44. > :58:53.experience. There was some discussion about the issue of
:58:53. > :58:59.immigration, where you were said to be sensible and not a softie.
:58:59. > :59:03.soft on immigration? No. When I introduced the 1999 Immigration and
:59:03. > :59:08.Asylum Bill, I was condemned as some kind of right wing semi
:59:08. > :59:12.fascist, not by my constituents, but one of the things forgotten by
:59:12. > :59:15.those that do not represent black or Asian communities, immigrants
:59:15. > :59:20.and the last two or three generations, is that none of them
:59:20. > :59:24.want people coming here illegally or unlawfully. Those people get
:59:24. > :59:29.more angry about this, because it undermines the confidence of the
:59:29. > :59:34.white population in them. Hasn't been an interesting experience,
:59:34. > :59:39.bringing up memories you have forgotten? -- has it been. It has
:59:39. > :59:44.been. One of the most important lessons are learned again was of
:59:44. > :59:49.the importance of the Labour Party really being tough on its policy
:59:49. > :59:55.examination and not turning in on itself. We had 25 years of internal