:01:24. > :01:27.In the North West, looking for a miracle. Bridges and city leaders
:01:27. > :01:37.gather in Liverpool, asking bridgeable -- government to reduce
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :39:59.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2302 seconds
:39:59. > :40:02.I am Arif Ansari. Coming up in the North West: Looking for a miracle.
:40:02. > :40:06.Religious and city leaders gather in Liverpool and asked the
:40:06. > :40:10.Government to reduce the cuts. order for society to be at ease
:40:10. > :40:15.with itself, it has to be assured that these cuts, which are
:40:15. > :40:18.necessary, also fair. Today we'll discuss the conference
:40:18. > :40:23.and ask what the implications are for our largest cities, Liverpool
:40:23. > :40:25.and Manchester. Joining me this week is the Labour MP for
:40:25. > :40:30.Stalybridge and Hyde, Jonathan Reynolds, and the Conservative MP
:40:30. > :40:34.for Chester, Stephen Mosley, former a deputy council leader. What do
:40:34. > :40:36.you think of the idea of holding this conference in Liverpool?
:40:36. > :40:42.think the council leaders should be spending their time trying to make
:40:42. > :40:46.sure they then -- run their councils as Gaulle -- well as
:40:46. > :40:49.possible. If they have got savings they can make locally, that is what
:40:49. > :40:55.they should do first. To complain they are not getting enough money
:40:55. > :41:02.from outside, I think they have got better priorities. Should be a
:41:02. > :41:06.conference or not? I think it is a good idea. There has been a
:41:06. > :41:09.reaction. They are taking too much from places that need the money and
:41:09. > :41:15.not giving enough to places -- not taking enough from places which are
:41:15. > :41:19.more affluent. That is what we will be discussing.
:41:19. > :41:23.Happy new year to all our councils. It is January, and that means they
:41:23. > :41:29.have started to announce proposals to cut back on services as budgets
:41:29. > :41:37.are cut. This week, more than 1000 job cuts have been announced.
:41:37. > :41:47.Manchester City Council says 830 full-time jobs will go. In Wigan,
:41:47. > :41:47.
:41:47. > :41:54.200 posts are being cut. In Salford, it is 150 jobs. It is not just cuts
:41:54. > :41:59.to services. Council tax is going up as well.
:41:59. > :42:04.The protests have already begun. So wrinkles and libraries are in the
:42:04. > :42:07.front line as Manchester aims to slash its budgets. We have seen the
:42:07. > :42:13.council promise things before. We have learnt the hard way that we
:42:13. > :42:15.can't trust the council's word on that. The only guarantee we could
:42:15. > :42:20.have for a new some wrinkled materialising is that this stays
:42:20. > :42:24.open until the new facility is ready. People will be paying more
:42:24. > :42:29.for what is left, as Manchester plans to put up its council tax by
:42:30. > :42:33.3.7%. That is to fund greater demands from Greater Manchester
:42:33. > :42:37.Waste, transport, police and fire. We have frozen council tax for the
:42:37. > :42:42.last three years. We have significant increases in waste
:42:42. > :42:46.disposal and transport levies which we don't have control over. The
:42:46. > :42:50.part of the increase that goes to our own services is actually
:42:50. > :42:54.decreasing to 2.4%. There is argument over the figures. The
:42:54. > :43:00.Government says Manchester's spending power will be down by 1.8%.
:43:00. > :43:03.The council says it is 5.1%. �10 million from reserves is being used
:43:03. > :43:12.to plug the gap. Half of the services and job losses will come
:43:12. > :43:17.from the merging of adults are blue and children's been bad services.
:43:17. > :43:25.There has been no decision yet on council tax. In Wigan, there is a
:43:25. > :43:29.pay freeze for senior managers. Council tax will rise by 2%.
:43:29. > :43:34.Northern areas seem to be losing badly, while many areas in the
:43:34. > :43:44.South are not. That can't be right. The Government says it is a fair
:43:44. > :43:47.
:43:47. > :43:51.Two years ago, so Richard Leese said he was surprised and shocked
:43:51. > :43:56.by the extent of the cuts. This time he is not surprised, but says
:43:56. > :44:00.he is still shocked. Stephen, you know when you were
:44:00. > :44:04.deputy council leader, did he used to think to yourself, we have got
:44:04. > :44:08.far too much money? No-one ever thinks that a! But you could be
:44:08. > :44:12.situation and think, what more can we do? If you look at the situation
:44:12. > :44:17.now, they have been budget reductions. National League has
:44:17. > :44:23.been 1.7%, but Faddiley takes it down to the level it was in in 2008.
:44:23. > :44:30.We're not going back to the 1930s here. We are only going back to
:44:30. > :44:35.2008. But we are seeing deep cuts in the numbers of staff think --
:44:35. > :44:41.staff in councils and the services they provide. My own counsel in
:44:41. > :44:47.Cheshire is facing a 2.4% reduction compared with Liverpool, which is
:44:47. > :44:53.facing 1.7%. Cheshire is seemed a bigger reduction than metropolitan
:44:53. > :45:02.areas. Not necessarily over the three-year period. They are facing
:45:02. > :45:08.reductions, and there are not facing the the situation we have
:45:08. > :45:12.been told about in the Metropolitan areas. What has to happen is local
:45:12. > :45:16.councils have to look up their own situation and do the best that they
:45:16. > :45:20.can for their local area. Some councils are doing a good job of
:45:20. > :45:25.improving services and making more efficient savings and I improving
:45:25. > :45:29.services for residence. Some councils are not. I want to bring
:45:29. > :45:35.Jonathan in here. The point that he is making is that councils can cope
:45:35. > :45:38.with this if they restructure and become more efficient. They are
:45:38. > :45:44.doing their best to try to mitigate, but my council has lost 1,200 staff
:45:44. > :45:49.already. By the end of this Parliament, it will be a 30%
:45:49. > :45:58.smaller budget in real terms than it was. That will fundamentally
:45:58. > :46:03.affect them. You can see in research that councils will soon
:46:03. > :46:07.run out of money for anything but essential services. No parks or
:46:07. > :46:11.library sold anything that residents care about. But Stephen
:46:11. > :46:16.was making the point that Cheshire West have fundamentally cut their
:46:16. > :46:20.costs as well. If you look at Manchester, I was rich -- enduring
:46:20. > :46:26.Sir Richard Leese this week, and I -- he was reluctant to saying that
:46:26. > :46:31.the councils were doing at a bad job. He said they had restructured
:46:31. > :46:37.and make the council more efficient. Of course, he wants to tell people
:46:37. > :46:40.getting the best they can. But if you look at who has been hit hard
:46:41. > :46:45.by this, it is the places in the last tears that were the most
:46:45. > :46:55.efficient that try to do deliver services in a better way. They have
:46:55. > :46:56.
:46:56. > :47:00.got nothing left to cut. What you say to voters who might say, we are
:47:00. > :47:04.really shocked that council tax is going up? I think they understand
:47:04. > :47:07.that they have services that they rely on and that are essential, and
:47:07. > :47:10.once you get into how government finance works, which is not an easy
:47:10. > :47:17.subject for many people, they understand that you have to
:47:17. > :47:19.mitigate some of the Kurds in some ways. It compounds the situation.
:47:19. > :47:24.If you do not raise council tax, you have to find the money
:47:24. > :47:27.elsewhere. I think local councils should make their decisions. If
:47:27. > :47:36.they want to increase council tax, they should be able to. If they
:47:36. > :47:41.want to increase it by more than 2%, they have to have a referendum.
:47:41. > :47:44.me put you up on that. Manchester is increasing it by 3.7%. There is
:47:44. > :47:49.no referendum, and the reason for that is they say the precepts are
:47:49. > :47:54.going up for things like waste and fire. Yes, it is because of the
:47:55. > :48:02.with system works. I would be more draconian and say that if you are
:48:02. > :48:08.increasing it by more than 2%. -- by more than 2%, you should have a
:48:08. > :48:13.referendum. It should be put to the local people and we should see what
:48:13. > :48:18.they want. Do they want a high cost high-spending council that
:48:18. > :48:22.increases council tax? One of the most prominent
:48:22. > :48:27.campaigners against the cuts is the male of Liverpool, Joe Anderson of
:48:27. > :48:29.labour. On Friday, he and the Anglican Bishop of Liverpool hosted
:48:30. > :48:34.delegations from five cities including Manchester to discuss the
:48:34. > :48:37.impact. In a moment, I will be speaking to Mr Anderson, the first,
:48:37. > :48:47.Stuart Pollitt has been asking whether he is right that Liverpool
:48:47. > :48:53.
:48:53. > :48:59.The fires will burn Thatcher! They will burn the Tories! This is not a
:48:59. > :49:03.time for denunciation, but for reconciliation.
:49:03. > :49:07.That was the last time major spending cuts were imposed on
:49:07. > :49:11.Liverpool. The result was all-out warfare. Margaret Thatcher and
:49:11. > :49:15.Derek Hatton would gladly have to teacher the into the Mersey. This
:49:15. > :49:21.time, there is a different response from the two political tribes.
:49:21. > :49:26.Instead of warfare, they have actually made a deal.
:49:26. > :49:30.It is called the City Deal, and it has seen the Government contribute
:49:30. > :49:35.�75 million towards a �130 billion investment pot. The money will go
:49:35. > :49:40.on a new enterprise zone, getting unemployed youngsters into work and
:49:40. > :49:45.building 12 new schools. Wall of this will be open in
:49:45. > :49:47.September. That is good going, isn't it? Is building site in
:49:47. > :49:52.Everton will be the first school constructed from the belief. There
:49:52. > :49:58.will be about 1000 and people. are looking forward to it, I'm
:49:58. > :50:00.sure? Yes, they have helped to design it. We have a unique
:50:00. > :50:03.relationship with the Government. We are saying, we will work with
:50:04. > :50:07.you as much as we possibly can, because they want economic
:50:07. > :50:13.regeneration in Liverpool, however, we will challenge you. It is a
:50:13. > :50:15.difficult balance. Good morning, everyone. The balance for those in
:50:15. > :50:19.charge of Pardew, the only residential rehabilitation centre
:50:20. > :50:27.in Liverpool, is trying to treat addicts like these despite funding
:50:27. > :50:33.cuts. Mark has been on heroin since the days of Militant. He is on
:50:33. > :50:41.parole from a life sentence for robbery. The funding has got to be
:50:41. > :50:46.there. It is a must. The Kurds were going to be 25%. We campaigned and
:50:46. > :50:52.it became 12.5%. We are anxious and we are nervous and it might mean
:50:52. > :50:58.that, depending on what happens, we may not be able to provide the
:50:58. > :51:02.number of beds to Liverpool that we currently are. On Friday, the
:51:02. > :51:07.Bishop of Liverpool was part of a summit looking at how cities can
:51:07. > :51:13.tackle this funding crisis. We know that we have been living beyond our
:51:13. > :51:17.means and we know that these cuts need happen. An order for society
:51:17. > :51:25.to be at ease with itself, it has to be assured that these cuts,
:51:25. > :51:29.which are necessary, also fair. According to Liverpool's Meyer, the
:51:29. > :51:36.city's grant from central government will be more than halved
:51:36. > :51:43.over the next few years. The Government argues that Liverpool
:51:43. > :51:45.will still receive more than �900 per head better than most areas.
:51:45. > :51:50.have got electrification of the railways, new bridges across the
:51:50. > :51:54.Mersey, investment in the ports and around the docks, so that is a good
:51:54. > :51:59.thing. We also potentially have lots of money invested in new
:51:59. > :52:06.hospitals and the City Deal. So overall, more than -- almost �1
:52:06. > :52:11.billion invested in the city. could in the money on one side, but
:52:11. > :52:15.they're putting some into the city for buildings and for firms. A only
:52:15. > :52:19.last week, we had David Cameron and the Mail sharing the stage, a bad
:52:19. > :52:25.thing that can only be good thing. Hopefully by working together, that
:52:25. > :52:29.will be what is best for the city in the long run. By embracing a
:52:29. > :52:33.touch of consensus politics and becoming one of the first places to
:52:33. > :52:38.embrace a City Deal and an elected mayor, Liverpool is taking a
:52:38. > :52:41.radically different approach to three decades ago. They have one
:52:41. > :52:47.other thing in their favour. This city is currently the fastest
:52:47. > :52:53.growing economy at side of London. The challenge is to maintain that
:52:53. > :52:57.statistics when we emerge from the period of spending cuts.
:52:57. > :53:01.Before Friday's Conference, I spoke to the mayor of Liverpool and asked
:53:01. > :53:06.him why he decided to hold the conference.
:53:06. > :53:11.What we're trying to do is educate government as to the financial
:53:11. > :53:15.predicament that councils are in. You don't think they know? I really
:53:15. > :53:19.don't. I really believe that when David Cameron says that Liverpool
:53:19. > :53:24.has got the same funding resources as it did last year, I think he
:53:25. > :53:29.genuinely thinks that is the case. He has been badly advised. But is
:53:29. > :53:35.it THAT when we talk about fairness, actually, it is the big cities like
:53:35. > :53:39.Liverpool and Manchester that get lot of spending in the first case.
:53:39. > :53:49.-- first place? They will be ones that will be targeted. I accept
:53:49. > :53:49.
:53:49. > :53:53.that argument to a certain extent, but it is disproportionate.
:53:53. > :53:58.Lanchester -- Manchester and Liverpool have large amount of
:53:58. > :54:07.deprivation. And you still have more resources now? We accept that
:54:07. > :54:13.there needs to be cut. But not to this extent. Our service is better
:54:13. > :54:17.or worse now than they were two years ago? Services are worse. If
:54:17. > :54:24.you look at the street in Liverpool, they are not as clean or as good.
:54:24. > :54:27.Libraries will have to close. interesting that you say that,
:54:27. > :54:32.because Sir Richard Leese was not quite so keen to say that services
:54:32. > :54:35.were worse, and he actually talked about be more efficient with the
:54:35. > :54:44.delivery of service and a more efficient Council. I did that when
:54:44. > :54:50.it took over this council. We have reduced the cost of our council.
:54:50. > :54:54.You cannot say that we have lost just under 1,600 staff within the
:54:54. > :54:58.city and say that services are still the same. Of course they are
:54:58. > :55:02.not. I will not try to bluff my way through that. I will be honest with
:55:02. > :55:06.people. How much is the City Deal helping? The City Deal is feeding
:55:06. > :55:11.him and it is helping us to build the 5,000 houses that I have
:55:11. > :55:16.pledged to build. It all sounds pretty good. It does sound good,
:55:16. > :55:20.but it still has to be said that we need the resources and support to
:55:20. > :55:28.provide services for homeless people, for instance, and people
:55:28. > :55:31.with alcohol dependency. So what I say to you is that base -- that is
:55:31. > :55:37.for tomorrow. We have to try to deal with the problems we face
:55:37. > :55:41.today. Thank you very much. Stephen, respond, if you would, to
:55:41. > :55:44.that charge from Joe Anderson that the cuts are focused on the big
:55:45. > :55:49.cities and they are unfair. disagree entirely. It is right that
:55:49. > :55:53.we put more money into some of the urban areas like Liverpool because
:55:53. > :55:56.they have more problems than places like Chester. Per head, liveable
:55:56. > :55:59.gets twice as much as Chester, and that is right because of the
:55:59. > :56:03.problems that they are in Liverpool. Because they have more money to
:56:03. > :56:09.begin with, if you reduce it by a given percentage, it really is
:56:09. > :56:16.slightly more in terms of money. lot more. In percentage terms, they
:56:16. > :56:20.are doing better. You keep referring to this year, but this is
:56:20. > :56:24.the third year of cuts. Over the last two years, there has been much
:56:24. > :56:27.more could back. Next year, they will be cut back hard deg N.
:56:28. > :56:31.Everybody in the country is having to make cutbacks. We have inherited
:56:31. > :56:36.a difficult financial situation, and everyone to get the country
:56:36. > :56:43.back on its feet, everybody has to tighten their belts a bit. It is up
:56:43. > :56:46.to local leaders to take advantage of schemes like the City Deal to
:56:46. > :56:49.make sure they are doing the best for their areas. I'm sure he is
:56:49. > :56:55.doing that. If we give this away from Labour politicians, because
:56:55. > :56:59.there will be a clash there and look at what be religious leaders
:56:59. > :57:03.are saying, they were saying phrases like the rank injustice,
:57:04. > :57:08.painful, and fed cuts. If they are saying that to you and the
:57:08. > :57:13.Government, do you take notice? course we do. We take beds of the
:57:13. > :57:19.Labour politicians as well. But we have to look at what people think
:57:19. > :57:24.in local areas. In Merseyside? Ultimately, we are there for the
:57:24. > :57:30.residents, and the residents will ultimately have their say. We had
:57:30. > :57:37.two by-elections in Merseyside last week, both of which the Tories won.
:57:37. > :57:40.People looked at what was being done and said, we were people who
:57:40. > :57:45.will work hard for an area and improve things rather than complain.
:57:45. > :57:49.It is not Labour politicians who are complaining because they want
:57:49. > :57:54.money to spend themselves. It is the residence to bear the brunt of
:57:54. > :57:58.this. Look at the counter- productive measures that are in
:57:58. > :58:02.place. When you go back in social care, the demand still there and
:58:02. > :58:06.people still need that service. They are being left without it.
:58:06. > :58:10.What I don't understand is, if the Government wants to reduce the
:58:10. > :58:14.deficit and if the vast amount of money is going to the big cities,
:58:14. > :58:19.had a sick which use it without putting the money going to the big
:58:19. > :58:23.cities? First of all, be a man coming from government is
:58:23. > :58:25.disproportionately high than any of the spending area. You can listen
:58:26. > :58:32.to Joe Anderson and other leaders they're saying that there will be
:58:32. > :58:38.cuts. We had the worst-case scenario with their skirts. The
:58:38. > :58:41.present round of cuts is a continuation of that. But most of
:58:41. > :58:46.the money goes to big cities. If you are going to reduce the deficit
:58:46. > :58:54.by a significant demand, that is where you will have to cut. Yes,
:58:54. > :59:01.but for the deficit, it would be going back up. Local councils have
:59:01. > :59:04.a huge impact on their local economies. Yes, they are expecting
:59:04. > :59:10.and were expecting to have a difficult time, but what they have
:59:10. > :59:14.been given from the to -- government is unfair. Is it is not
:59:14. > :59:19.the drivers of the local economies, which is why the City Deal is such
:59:19. > :59:24.a massive thing for Liverpool. �130 million to be invested in the
:59:24. > :59:28.economy, 12 new schools being built. �800 million over 10 years invested
:59:28. > :59:31.in local transport projects. These are huge sums of money that the
:59:31. > :59:35.coalition government are put into cities like Liverpool. And indeed,
:59:35. > :59:39.Greater Manchester? Absolutely. This is something we need as a
:59:39. > :59:43.region and it is good to see it happening as a continuation of what
:59:43. > :59:47.was happening under the last Labour government. But what the Government
:59:47. > :59:50.can say is, yes, we're getting back on local government, but we are put
:59:50. > :59:55.in all this extra investment in as well and we have to take that into
:59:55. > :59:58.account. We can save money by operating in different ways of
:59:58. > :00:02.people stay in the area rather than going back to Whitehall, which is a
:00:02. > :00:09.good thing. What you have to bear in mind against that is the siege
:00:09. > :00:12.draconian spending cuts to councils. I am in favour of the devolution of
:00:12. > :00:17.power and spending and all the rest of it, but this is still a
:00:17. > :00:26.difficult time for local governor. It is time now for the rest of this
:00:26. > :00:30.week's News in 60 seconds. Prepare for take-off. Plans for the
:00:30. > :00:33.UK's first airport city in Manchester have been approved. The
:00:33. > :00:38.Enterprise Zone could create 11,000 jobs.
:00:38. > :00:40.Five members of fact -- staff facing redundancy in Warrington put
:00:40. > :00:44.themselves in the shop window before administrators peeled them
:00:44. > :00:50.away. Fracking, the extraction of shale
:00:50. > :00:53.gas from underground, could be heading inland from the Fylde coast.
:00:53. > :00:56.An energy company is exploring sites in Salford and Ellesmere Port.
:00:56. > :01:00.Students on the Isle of Man have been protesting against plans to
:01:00. > :01:07.make them pay for tuition fees. is shocking that the Government
:01:07. > :01:10.easy evening considering this. University education is still free,
:01:10. > :01:14.and the Manx government has delayed a vote on introducing charges.
:01:14. > :01:17.And the Lake District is the world's first national park to
:01:17. > :01:21.become a designated fair trade zone because it supports farmers in the
:01:21. > :01:31.developing world. More than 200 organisations there have the fair
:01:31. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :01:37.So, Jonathan, we taught them about enterprise zones. Do you feel they
:01:37. > :01:40.are working in the way they should be? This is all part of the
:01:40. > :01:44.Government's drive to boost local economies? I have nothing against
:01:44. > :01:48.them. But look at the problems we face in a local economies across
:01:48. > :01:51.the country. The will not address those problems until you have the
:01:51. > :01:56.Government committing to an economic plan for the whole country.
:01:56. > :02:03.If they attract jobs, brilliant, but it will not solve our problems.
:02:03. > :02:06.I'll be moving as quickly as you would like them to? No. But they
:02:06. > :02:12.are moving in the right direction and getting set-up. We have
:02:12. > :02:15.enterprise zones in Manchester and Liverpool, and they are starting to
:02:15. > :02:19.attract investment and interest, and there are one of the tools that
:02:19. > :02:25.we have to boost the economy. They're not the only tool, but one
:02:25. > :02:29.of them. And one in Manchester Airport as well. Yes, as I say, we
:02:29. > :02:31.would expect to have won if that is the Government's key strategy to
:02:31. > :02:35.boost employment and get the economy going, but it will not be