:39:46. > :39:54.note - council tax is down, and so beasts have been in town, but will
:39:54. > :39:59.it be enough to secure the big prize in this week's local elections?
:39:59. > :40:02.Labour very much look like they are going to take Lancashire. It would
:40:03. > :40:06.be a huge disappointment to them if they didn't.
:40:06. > :40:10.On Thursday we have elections for three county councils. Lancashire is
:40:10. > :40:13.one of the country's top political targets and this week we have the
:40:13. > :40:16.three candidates who want to run it. The man in charge at the moment is
:40:16. > :40:26.the Conservative leader, Geoff Driver. Alongside him, Labour leader
:40:26. > :40:29.
:40:29. > :40:33.Jenny Mein, and we're also joined by Liberal Democrat Bill Winlow. Jenny,
:40:33. > :40:39.listening to Professor Denver there, it is really yours to lose. I don't
:40:39. > :40:44.think he is a Labour supporter, is he? We all know that the Tories are
:40:44. > :40:48.letting Lancashire down. Families are over �800 worse off than they
:40:48. > :40:58.were of before. Pensioner couples are �450 worse off than ever they
:40:58. > :41:02.were before. What we need is to invest more money into Lancashire's
:41:02. > :41:06.economy, and make good opportunities for our young people. Geoff Driver,
:41:06. > :41:12.how do you prevent that national election pattern that is being
:41:12. > :41:16.predicted there actually happening? There is only one poll, and that is
:41:16. > :41:24.on the 2nd of May. We will be asking people to look at ABBA record and
:41:24. > :41:28.look at what we have done. We have invested in the local economy. We
:41:28. > :41:32.have predicted -- protected the front office cost and reduced
:41:32. > :41:39.council tax by 2%. What about the Liberal Democrats? Nine seats at the
:41:39. > :41:44.moment. I would expect to get about the same number of seats this time.
:41:44. > :41:47.More on the elections shortly. first - union leaders in Knowsley
:41:47. > :41:50.held a meeting this week calling for a campaign of civil disobedience
:41:50. > :41:58.over welfare reform. They're asking people who are struggling to cope to
:41:58. > :42:03.stop paying their rent. But should they, and could it work?
:42:03. > :42:07.Radical acts of protest can lead to change. Just take a look inside the
:42:07. > :42:12.People's history Museum in Manchester. In many examples
:42:12. > :42:19.throughout history, the aim of these movements involved in civil
:42:19. > :42:24.disobedience was to cause disruption. In Kirby, they want to
:42:24. > :42:28.follow in this tradition. Here, and number of unions are calling for
:42:28. > :42:32.civil disobedience and direct action against the government's welfare
:42:32. > :42:37.reforms, starting with the under-occupancy rule with the
:42:37. > :42:43.so-called bedroom tax. If enough people do it that way, they will
:42:43. > :42:48.have to think about it. Is it worthwhile? Is it cost-effective?
:42:48. > :42:55.Because lots of people out here are really, really struggling. Who could
:42:55. > :42:59.forget the anti-poll tax campaign and the riots that followed? They
:42:59. > :43:06.want to avoid these scenes but they want to resist eviction. They will
:43:06. > :43:11.have to drag me out. I can't afford it. Although Labour have supported
:43:11. > :43:16.process is against the coalition government spending cuts, on this
:43:16. > :43:21.one, the unions or on their own. am just concerned that it will be
:43:21. > :43:26.taken too far. People will get into trouble and end up with criminal
:43:26. > :43:32.record. Observers of history have their own concerns. If you have a
:43:32. > :43:37.public on your side, as it were, you have a chance of success. If the
:43:37. > :43:42.public is against you, there are serious problems. Here, they may
:43:42. > :43:47.have some way to go before they have the support they need. What has been
:43:47. > :43:52.the impact of these kinds of welfare reforms on people in Lancashire and
:43:52. > :43:56.on your council? It is too early to say what the impact will be on
:43:57. > :44:01.individual people in Lancashire. In terms of the effect on the County
:44:01. > :44:06.Council, again, it is difficult to say because district councils
:44:06. > :44:09.collect the council tax. In some parts of the region there are
:44:09. > :44:14.certainly cases where people have been forced out of homes they have
:44:14. > :44:20.lived in for many years. They have been put into blocks of flats. Do
:44:20. > :44:26.you have sympathy for those people? I am not aware of any of examples of
:44:26. > :44:33.what you have said. I do have sympathy with people who are placed
:44:33. > :44:39.in that position. The basic principle, that benefits should be
:44:39. > :44:44.high... So you understand the union reaction there? You are asking me a
:44:44. > :44:48.different question! I can understand people being disappointed, upset and
:44:48. > :44:53.worried about it, but we have to draw the line at breaking the law in
:44:53. > :44:57.terms of protesting. I am all for people protesting against measures
:44:57. > :45:03.peacefully, but let's not go back to what happened when they were
:45:03. > :45:08.protesting against the poll tax. Jenny Mein, sympathy for the unions?
:45:09. > :45:13.I would have sympathy for the unions, but I am totally opposed to
:45:13. > :45:16.civil disobedience. We live in a democracy, and we are allowed to
:45:16. > :45:21.protest peacefully. It seems that the unions are trying to drag the
:45:21. > :45:26.Labour Party leftwards at the moment. It may seem that way to you.
:45:26. > :45:31.Some of the unions do appear to be trying to do that, but our leader,
:45:31. > :45:41.Ed Miliband, has come out and spoken and said he would not support a
:45:41. > :45:42.
:45:42. > :45:46.general strike. He called then you ask a -- he called Len McCluskey
:45:47. > :45:54.from Unite reprehensible. Do you agree with that? Some of his words
:45:54. > :46:00.are reprehensible. Jess may not know people who have had to move, but I
:46:00. > :46:05.do. I spoke to people only at the weekend. One lady was moving. She
:46:05. > :46:10.was able to move because there was a one-bedroom flat available for her.
:46:10. > :46:20.The lady next door had a husband and a teenage son. There are properties
:46:20. > :46:20.
:46:20. > :46:22.available. We all know, these benefit cuts... Bill Winlow, your
:46:22. > :46:29.government is implementing these welfare reforms. Do you support
:46:29. > :46:33.them? I don't support the so-called bedroom tax. There are so many
:46:33. > :46:38.exceptions to it that are highly complex. And there are not enough
:46:38. > :46:42.places available for people to move to. That is clear in my area. I was
:46:42. > :46:47.talking to a lady the other night who had actually moved, swapped her
:46:47. > :46:57.house with somebody else, and she is exceedingly upset, having put an
:46:57. > :47:00.awful lot of work into the house she was in. She had to put in a new
:47:00. > :47:03.kitchen and allsorts. The poll are feeling very, very angry and they
:47:03. > :47:08.feel there is nothing available for them. On Thursday, voters in three
:47:08. > :47:11.of our counties go to the polls. Let's have a look at what is up for
:47:11. > :47:15.grabs. Elections to the powerful County
:47:15. > :47:23.Council is one every four. They provide schools, roads and social
:47:23. > :47:28.services. In the North West, that means that Cumbria, Derbyshire, and
:47:28. > :47:32.perhaps the biggest prize, Lancashire County Council.
:47:32. > :47:38.Conservative leader, it is wonderful to say that we have won control of
:47:38. > :47:44.Lancashire County Council. Three years ago, the Conservatives
:47:44. > :47:49.triumphed. They are dominant on 51 seats. Labour Trail on 17. The Lib
:47:49. > :47:55.Dems have nine, and others seven. Four years on, experts say the
:47:55. > :48:00.pendulum is likely to swing back. They very much look like they are
:48:00. > :48:04.going to take control of Lancashire. It would be a huge disappointment to
:48:04. > :48:10.them if they didn't. Voting in the three counties is on Thursday, with
:48:11. > :48:20.the results expected on Friday lunchtime.
:48:21. > :48:22.
:48:22. > :48:26.We have been considering some of the election issues.
:48:26. > :48:31.Can I thank you for having us here? The national leaders have got their
:48:31. > :48:36.eye on Lancashire, but what other local issues that matter here in
:48:36. > :48:39.Preston and throughout the county? To find that out, you have to follow
:48:39. > :48:44.the money. Adult social care is what the council spends more on than
:48:44. > :48:51.anything else, but it is spending less than it used to. �70 million
:48:51. > :48:56.has been cut from that budget. The cuts led to process. -- to
:48:56. > :49:00.protests. For James, it led to the lost of a dedicated social worker.
:49:01. > :49:05.His family say it is much harder to get his needs catered for. It took
:49:05. > :49:10.us three months to get his blue badge because you are not able to
:49:10. > :49:14.contact a care worker. You don't even get a name to care worker, you
:49:14. > :49:19.get whoever is available. council says although there is less
:49:20. > :49:24.money, they are still investing in the likes of Helen. She is a regular
:49:24. > :49:31.at one of five new short break centres. I like the venue. I like
:49:31. > :49:37.the garden. The previous building wasn't suitable. She really enjoys
:49:37. > :49:42.being here. It is a treat for her as much as it is a treat for me to have
:49:42. > :49:48.some respite! Adult social care centre -- spending has come down,
:49:48. > :49:54.but it is the one thing that links all voters with their local
:49:54. > :50:03.authority. Council tax has been cut by 2% here in the last four years -
:50:03. > :50:08.a surefire boating attraction, one would think? You ask people if they
:50:08. > :50:12.would rather have �14 in their pocket, or would they rather see a
:50:12. > :50:18.decent -- a society and a community that better supports disabled
:50:18. > :50:24.people. What would your answer be? Council tax wasn't so much of a
:50:24. > :50:28.political hot potato. How do you feel about it going down? I would
:50:28. > :50:33.rather see it low because I don't think they put better services on,
:50:33. > :50:38.even if they put council tax up. would imagine a Conservative council
:50:38. > :50:44.and a Conservative led government would be a recipe for harmony, but
:50:44. > :50:47.one issue has caused plenty of conflicts. The issue of some of
:50:47. > :50:57.Lancashire's schools and pupils. Increasingly bitter letters have
:50:57. > :50:57.
:50:57. > :51:00.been flying back and forth between the council leader and the Education
:51:00. > :51:05.Secretary about the pressure being put on many schools, including this
:51:05. > :51:09.one in Leyland, to become academies. Lancashire has always had a
:51:09. > :51:14.tradition, under both colours of government, of putting more money in
:51:14. > :51:18.than normally comes through in the normal budget process. They have
:51:18. > :51:22.always supported our schools. Whether it concerns care, classrooms
:51:22. > :51:28.or council tax, there's plenty to debate in this election.
:51:29. > :51:34.We had there from James, about losing his own social worker. Three
:51:34. > :51:43.months to get a blue badge. Council driver, perhaps those cuts have been
:51:43. > :51:47.too deep? Lancashire County Council doesn't issue the blue badge is any
:51:47. > :51:53.more, so any delay is very unfortunate, but it is not down to
:51:54. > :51:59.us. It is down to the new arrangements. I know James and his
:51:59. > :52:03.father personally, so I know the situation there. They are not happy.
:52:03. > :52:09.They are not happy because James doesn't have a dedicated social
:52:09. > :52:14.worker. James is now in residential accommodation provided by the County
:52:14. > :52:21.Council, so it is a service that he doesn't need in that sense. In
:52:21. > :52:26.context, Lancashire County Council spends about �250 million every year
:52:26. > :52:29.on 36,000 people. We need to make sure, for the benefit of everyone in
:52:29. > :52:34.Lancashire, that we get the best possible value out of those
:52:34. > :52:40.resources. We have reduced some of the expenditure, but we have
:52:40. > :52:46.enhanced and improved services to the elderly, and particularly to
:52:46. > :52:52.adults with learning disabilities like James. Jenny Meade, but as
:52:52. > :52:59.Jennie Reed, if you look at Helen there, her family are very happy
:52:59. > :53:04.with the reforms that have been put in place. I would be happy with a
:53:04. > :53:08.tiled in that kind of accommodation. Unfortunately, the other two people
:53:08. > :53:14.we saw interviewed are not happy with Lancashire, because cuts have
:53:14. > :53:19.been made. Cuts to people with learning disabilities, cuts to their
:53:19. > :53:23.carers, cuts to their leisure coordinators... Cuts are inevitable,
:53:23. > :53:31.given the overall tightening of budget. The question is whether it
:53:31. > :53:40.could have been done better. could have been done better. To take
:53:40. > :53:45.a further �7.5 million in budget, on top of the cuts this year, the
:53:45. > :53:49.people who have lost the services are the people who are asked to pay
:53:49. > :53:55.more for services. They have noticed it. Have these cuts been handled in
:53:55. > :54:01.the right way? Not entirely. We have looked at people who have moderate
:54:01. > :54:05.care needs and are no longer being classified, according to our office.
:54:06. > :54:11.The problem there is we cannot go for early intervention. If somebody
:54:11. > :54:19.has a neat, we don't know about it now. That has been a great mistake.
:54:19. > :54:23.It is a nationwide problem, but it's one we should be addressing. We need
:54:23. > :54:27.to spend our resources more effectively, and we need to provide
:54:27. > :54:31.better services. We have taken people out of moderate
:54:31. > :54:35.classification, but we have actually spent more on giving them services
:54:35. > :54:43.that are more appropriate to their needs. In addition to the �7.5
:54:43. > :54:50.million we have spent, we have also spent �30 million on renovating and
:54:50. > :54:55.refurbishing completely... You want to basically increase payments to
:54:55. > :55:01.staff and wages. You want them to go up to the living wage. If you do
:55:01. > :55:09.that, there's a cost of that. How will you pay for it? We have looked
:55:09. > :55:14.very closely at it. To bring up the 20% of Lancashire County Council
:55:14. > :55:19.staff who are being paid less than the living wage, we have asked
:55:19. > :55:24.officers to look into ways of how we can find that money. It is not a
:55:24. > :55:29.council tax increase. In the four years you have, could it be one of
:55:29. > :55:36.those four years? Tories boast they have reduced council tax. With you,
:55:36. > :55:41.maybe it will go up again? To be quite honest, they're boast is that
:55:41. > :55:51.they have saved money on the back office. I agree with that, and we
:55:51. > :55:51.
:55:52. > :55:56.will find that money. Geoff Driver, you have cut council tax. That is
:55:56. > :56:01.quite a costly election bribe. not an election bribe. It is a
:56:01. > :56:05.strategy we decided on when we did our budget. Jennifer says that
:56:05. > :56:12.introducing the living wage will cost two point form and in pounds.
:56:12. > :56:17.Our offices tell us it is likely to cost �27 million. That is an
:56:17. > :56:21.increase of 7% in council tax or a loss of thousands of jobs. That is
:56:21. > :56:26.very telling. She is telling the people of Lancashire that that is
:56:26. > :56:30.what they want to do, but they don't know how to fund it. When I have
:56:30. > :56:36.spoken to some of your colleagues at the council. They say that Geoff
:56:36. > :56:40.Driver can be a bit of a bully. He puts some people in the Cabinet who
:56:40. > :56:45.are not up to the job so he can get his way. He has reduced scrutiny at
:56:45. > :56:53.the council. They suggest that is weak leadership. I think you have
:56:53. > :56:57.made that up! Know he hasn't!You would need to substantiate it. I
:56:58. > :57:02.think that the people of Lancashire recognise that the council is very
:57:02. > :57:07.different from the one we inherited. We work on the basis that we are
:57:07. > :57:10.there to serve the people of Lancashire. That's what we've done.
:57:10. > :57:15.We've invested millions of pounds into the services that really
:57:15. > :57:20.matter. You did reduce the number of scrutiny committees from five to
:57:20. > :57:27.three, which means there is less scrutiny of your Cabinet than there
:57:27. > :57:31.was. So that has been an affect on democracy. Jenny Mein, some people
:57:31. > :57:38.say that you are very nice, but do not have the strength to be leader.
:57:38. > :57:43.I will be in a good position to prove people wrong. Of course I am.
:57:43. > :57:49.As regards the living wage, if we did it in the way that Geoff Driver
:57:49. > :57:53.wants us to, it would cost �25 million. I have spoken to other
:57:53. > :57:58.leaders across the country, and there are other ways to do it.
:57:58. > :58:03.time for some of the smaller parties now. The Green Party and the BNP
:58:03. > :58:09.currently have three streets -- three seats between them, and UKIP
:58:09. > :58:15.are hoping to breakthrough after increasing their numbers. What you
:58:15. > :58:22.will get from a UKIP councillor is they are unafraid to speak the
:58:22. > :58:28.truth, opposing wind farms. Why are we paying all this money to council
:58:28. > :58:32.bosses who are cutting frontline services? The way of opposing the
:58:32. > :58:42.bedroom tax which has brought in by the coalition government. It is
:58:42. > :58:44.
:58:44. > :58:49.supported by UKIP. We say it is grotesque for poor people. For the
:58:49. > :58:56.Green Party to be standing outside and challenging on all sorts of
:58:56. > :59:03.France is really important. UKIP on a roll. A danger that they overtake
:59:03. > :59:08.you in the share of the vote? doubt that very much. There's a few
:59:08. > :59:12.people slipping away, but not from us particularly. I see a number of
:59:12. > :59:18.conservative votes going that way, and a few Labour too. I don't think
:59:18. > :59:22.they will overtake us in the popular vote. I told our other two guests
:59:22. > :59:26.what people are saying about them. What they say about you is, you do
:59:26. > :59:31.not need to worry because you will not be surviving after the election.
:59:31. > :59:38.From what I see on the doorstep, it is looking strong at the moment.
:59:38. > :59:42.Elections as well this week in Cumbria. Here's our reporter.
:59:42. > :59:46.All 84 of Cumbria County Council seats are up for grabs next week.
:59:46. > :59:56.The council has a mixed history when it comes to leadership, and since
:59:56. > :59:58.2001, no party has had overall control here. The council is run by
:59:58. > :00:04.a rather unlikely Conservative-Labour coalition. The
:00:04. > :00:07.Conservatives would need to win another four seats to take a
:00:07. > :00:13.majority. Labour suffered significant losses in 2009, and
:00:13. > :00:17.would need to win another 21 to take control. The Liberal Democrats are
:00:17. > :00:22.particularly strong in South Lakeland, but this year, they are
:00:22. > :00:28.fielding fewer candidates than UKIP.
:00:28. > :00:36.A reminder for our viewers in High Peak that voting is also taking
:00:36. > :00:43.place in Derbyshire. You can find a full list of candidates online.
:00:43. > :00:46.Time for the rest of the week's news now in 60 Seconds.
:00:47. > :00:52.New inquest into the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans at Hillsborough will
:00:52. > :00:56.be held early next year. The location will be announced next
:00:56. > :01:01.week. A group of Manchester academics is calling for a change in
:01:01. > :01:05.the law to protect hospital patients. They say the law currently
:01:05. > :01:13.protects animals more effectively. Patients' needs have been ignored in
:01:13. > :01:18.an almost reckless way. Manchester MP John Leech is calling for the FA
:01:18. > :01:25.Cup final to be held at 3pm on Saturday and to be the only major
:01:25. > :01:28.game that day. Wigan and Man City will kick off at 5:15pm next month.
:01:28. > :01:34.Villages without children. Campaigners warned that is the
:01:34. > :01:39.future of the Lake District if things are not done to tackle second
:01:39. > :01:42.home ownership. The valleys will no longer have young people in them.
:01:42. > :01:51.Shellfish stocks across the Isle of Man will have better protection.
:01:51. > :01:56.Lobster and crab are to be added to the protection of scallop dredging.
:01:56. > :02:02.What is your prediction for the Lancashire elections? My production
:02:02. > :02:09.is a period of no overall control and negotiations between the parties
:02:09. > :02:13.as to who is going to lead the council. We have spoken to 160,000
:02:13. > :02:19.people in the last few months. They are feeling let down by the Tories,
:02:19. > :02:25.and we are very hopeful, but not complacent. Our experience is that
:02:25. > :02:28.Labour and the Liberal Democrats are campaigning on national issues. When