:42:15. > :42:21.North West: Salami slicing or the big chop - as the arts face further
:42:21. > :42:25.cuts, can big business fill the gap or is the money heading south?
:42:25. > :42:27.And my guests this week are the Labour MP for Ellesmere Port &
:42:27. > :42:37.Neston, Andrew Miller. And the Conservative leader of Cheshire West
:42:37. > :42:41.and Chester Council, Mike Jones. There is a bid in for just to become
:42:42. > :42:47.the UK city of culture. How important is that for Chester?
:42:47. > :42:52.think it's very important for the borough, not just Chester. We are a
:42:53. > :42:57.new council, four years old, and we have worked hard to get investment
:42:57. > :43:02.in sports and arts and this is a really good rallying call for
:43:02. > :43:06.innovation and creativity throughout the borough and all sorts of drama
:43:06. > :43:11.and culture and arts events. that is the issue will now be
:43:11. > :43:15.talking about later. But Andrew, as finances are squeezed, less money to
:43:15. > :43:21.go around and as you are chairman of the Commons science committee, you
:43:21. > :43:28.would presumably say that science should be the priority? Far from it.
:43:28. > :43:34.In a civilised society, arts and culture and science go together. We
:43:34. > :43:39.ought to be supporting developments in all areas. The problem I have
:43:39. > :43:43.with Mike which I'm sure we will develop is how we fund it and how we
:43:43. > :43:45.utilise the private sector to the best advantage in all of those
:43:45. > :43:48.disciplines. Let's talk about that later.
:43:48. > :43:52.The season may be over, but Bolton Wanderers made a controversial
:43:52. > :43:54.signing this week. The club's new sponsor is the payday loan company,
:43:54. > :44:04.QuickQuid. Many fans and local politicians are furious, but the
:44:04. > :44:04.
:44:04. > :44:10.club has defended QuickQuid's They're a company who say they lend
:44:10. > :44:13.out cash to help tide you over. their loans come at quite a price.
:44:13. > :44:17.QuickQuid's annual interest rate is more than 1,700%. But now the firm's
:44:17. > :44:20.splashing some of its cash on Bolton Wanderers in a new sponsorship deal.
:44:20. > :44:30.In return, the company will get its name on Bolton's shirts next season.
:44:30. > :44:31.
:44:31. > :44:36.Not everyone's impressed. QuickQuid are company that is, like all payday
:44:36. > :44:41.loan companies, are companies that prey on those people who are least
:44:41. > :44:44.able to repay their exorbitant interest rates and we are calling on
:44:44. > :44:46.Bolton Wanderers football club to rethink this deal.
:44:46. > :44:49.Beyond Bolton, opposition to payday loan companies is growing.
:44:49. > :44:52.Campaigners in Bury this week called for powers to reduce their presence
:44:52. > :45:00.on the high street and stop the firms advertising on football
:45:00. > :45:09.shirts. It is not by accident that these companies are targeting
:45:09. > :45:11.football clubs. One in five payday loan s are taken out in the
:45:11. > :45:13.Northwest. QuickQuid weren't talking this week,
:45:13. > :45:16.but the chief executive of the Consumer Finance Association, which
:45:16. > :45:21.represents the payday lenders, says the high APR figure doesn't
:45:21. > :45:28.accurately reflect what borrowers actually pay. The interest rate is
:45:28. > :45:34.confusing for people. What people want to know is how much do I have
:45:35. > :45:38.to pay in pounds and pence? So we tell people how much they need to
:45:38. > :45:43.pay back per �100. The interest rate is a publication. Nobody pays
:45:43. > :45:45.thousands of percent in relative. for the club, they say they're
:45:45. > :45:48.looking forward to working with QuickQuid. But by taking the
:45:49. > :45:58.sponsorship, it may take the club some time to regain the backing of
:45:59. > :45:59.
:45:59. > :46:04.some of its supporters. What is Labour doing about this?
:46:04. > :46:10.Stella Creasey was correct, this is exploitation. My blood message to
:46:10. > :46:15.fourball clubs is to pull out of these deals, it is outrageous. There
:46:15. > :46:25.is also Blackpool who has had involvement with a similar company.
:46:25. > :46:30.And we have to get out of this kind of arrangement. It is exploiting the
:46:31. > :46:34.very hardest hit in our communities. Five such companies operating in the
:46:34. > :46:38.heart of Ellesmere Port, exploiting some of the poorest people in our
:46:38. > :46:45.community. I would like to see local authorities having the planning
:46:45. > :46:51.powers to stop them expanding. Do you want them shut down? I would
:46:51. > :46:54.love to see them shut down. I do not think they have a place in modern
:46:54. > :47:03.society. Credit unions are the way forward, proper ways of managing
:47:04. > :47:07.finances for people excluded from the finance system. Give local
:47:07. > :47:12.authorities powers to closed and these businesses. Mike, would you
:47:13. > :47:18.like to see those actor powers that Andrew talks about? We have argued
:47:18. > :47:22.strongly from several points of view and I would support Andrew in his
:47:22. > :47:32.comments. It is exploitation of the poor and what is worse, it is
:47:32. > :47:32.
:47:32. > :47:39.encouraging them to use illegal loan sharks and that is very corrosive in
:47:39. > :47:45.our communities. There is a big expansion of these companies in
:47:45. > :47:49.places like els near Port. Yes, and Andrew is working with us and with
:47:49. > :47:55.the police to try to shut down the illegal loan sharks and tried to get
:47:55. > :48:00.rid of these ridiculous interest rates. Is there a moral role here
:48:00. > :48:04.for football teams? Should they be worrying about this type of thing?
:48:04. > :48:10.think so because football is a very expensive profession and it is
:48:10. > :48:18.almost obscene the amount of money people get paid. That is market
:48:18. > :48:23.forces for you. That is one way of looking at it. There is a case for
:48:23. > :48:30.regulation. You think there should be more regulation? The office of
:48:30. > :48:35.fair trading is not doing a good enough job at the moment, that is
:48:35. > :48:38.one comment. They have been severely criticised by the Public Accounts
:48:38. > :48:46.Committee but it is important to remember that that is the unanimous
:48:46. > :48:50.report of a committee that is dominated by Government sites. There
:48:50. > :48:55.is consensus on the backbenches at least that we should do something
:48:55. > :48:59.about this. Let's see the Government take a lead and bring forward
:48:59. > :49:02.regulation to put some of these people under control. Thank you.
:49:02. > :49:05.Moving on and the Shadow Health Secretary and MP for Leigh, Andy
:49:05. > :49:09.Burnham, has called for a summit, better known as a meeting, over the
:49:09. > :49:14.state of our A&E departments. Mr Burnham visited Leighton Hospital in
:49:14. > :49:16.Crewe this week to hear about the increasing number of patients there.
:49:16. > :49:25.Last weekend, there was a backlog of ambulances and patients being
:49:25. > :49:35.diverted at the Royal Liverpool. But whose fault is it? Being there she
:49:35. > :49:37.
:49:37. > :49:42.met earlier in the morning blamed the out of hours service... These
:49:42. > :49:49.reasons are complex. Do you regret reducing the hours that GPs are
:49:49. > :49:56.available? Now, because this Rob has got worse in the last year. It has
:49:56. > :50:00.deteriorated sharply in the last months. Andy Burnham looking
:50:00. > :50:10.uncomfortable there and that is because in retrospect, there were
:50:10. > :50:14.
:50:14. > :50:24.mistakes made, weren't they? weren't there? In 2010, 90 8% of AMD
:50:24. > :50:25.
:50:25. > :50:34.episodes met their targets -- 90% of accident and emergency. Importantly,
:50:34. > :50:38.the chronic problems faced in social care. Why our hospital staff saying
:50:38. > :50:43.to media but there is no problem would be GPs not doing the amount of
:50:43. > :50:46.work they used to? The King's fund and the Federation disagree with
:50:46. > :50:51.that analysis. Yes, there were problems with the out of hours
:50:51. > :50:56.service and I accept that but that is not the core of the problem. The
:50:56. > :51:00.reasons I cited are the core of the problem. And the biggest one of the
:51:00. > :51:06.lot is around how we manage the future of social care. Last year,
:51:07. > :51:12.the Health Secretary gave back �2 billion to the Treasury. If we only
:51:13. > :51:16.have half of that back over the next couple of years and put that into
:51:16. > :51:21.social care we could address some of these chronic problems that are
:51:21. > :51:27.hitting us across the country. has the problem got worse under the
:51:27. > :51:32.Conservatives? I am not sure that a party political debate is
:51:32. > :51:38.appropriate. We are working with colleagues in both Chester and
:51:38. > :51:44.Leighton Hospital, and it is not the problem there. There is a problem in
:51:44. > :51:54.Leighton Hospital. They are delivering, I was talking to someone
:51:54. > :51:55.
:51:55. > :52:02.there and they are meeting their targets. Just as Chester R. I think
:52:02. > :52:09.there is a problem across the country, Leighton is an interesting
:52:09. > :52:12.hospital. People from a very wide area crossing boundaries and I am
:52:12. > :52:22.sure that the complexities of hospitals like that need factoring
:52:22. > :52:23.
:52:23. > :52:29.in to how we examine and find ways to create solutions. And if one
:52:29. > :52:33.looks at the social care issue, that spills over into the other councils
:52:33. > :52:43.as well. Is not something you agree with Andrew that you should be doing
:52:43. > :52:43.
:52:43. > :52:47.more about? -- is that something? people do need to go to hospital,
:52:47. > :52:50.which are to make sure that they are rehabilitated, we work with them, we
:52:51. > :52:54.give them physiotherapy, whatever is required to build up self-confidence
:52:54. > :52:57.and give them independence and keep them independent as long as possible
:52:57. > :53:01.and that is why I think we are solving that problem by working
:53:01. > :53:06.together with our health partners. Think how much more could be done if
:53:06. > :53:13.we had it act by the centre into local Government. Local Government
:53:13. > :53:21.cuts are ridiculous and I am sure Michael would agree with me.
:53:21. > :53:27.would love a bit more cash, wouldn't you? We could put that into the NHS
:53:27. > :53:32.and it would impact significantly. It is not really the real world
:53:32. > :53:35.though. We have taken millions of pounds of costs and invested about
:53:35. > :53:40.�40 million of that into adult social care, children's social care
:53:40. > :53:44.and investment in sports centres and things like that. We are doing OK,
:53:44. > :53:48.we are coping with the reductions of our income by the Government and we
:53:48. > :53:50.are still delivering great services for our residents.
:53:50. > :53:53.Later this month it's the Chancellor's spending review which
:53:53. > :53:55.means more cuts to Government departments. Few in the arts
:53:55. > :53:59.industry are expecting good news. And while donations from business
:53:59. > :54:07.are helping to fill the gap, more of that money than ever is heading to
:54:07. > :54:09.They could be the artists of the future. At the Whitworth Gallery in
:54:09. > :54:19.Manchester, they're already educating the next generation of
:54:19. > :54:20.
:54:20. > :54:22.arts fans. But they're having to wings to the gallery. It's a huge
:54:22. > :54:32.project costing �15 million, with the majority of that coming from the
:54:32. > :54:32.
:54:32. > :54:36.Heritage Lottery Fund. It will give us double the gallery space, a brick
:54:36. > :54:40.wing and a glass wing which will create a gallery in the trees, a
:54:40. > :54:43.cafe in the trees and it will also create a new art garden.
:54:43. > :54:46.But few can afford investments like this, as the Government cuts back on
:54:46. > :54:51.spending. In 2011, the Arts Council's funding was reduced by
:54:51. > :54:53.almost 30%. And with the Chancellor due to deliver his next spending
:54:53. > :55:03.review next month, no-one's expecting the situation to get
:55:03. > :55:07.better. We have had reduced income from the Government to pass on to
:55:07. > :55:10.cultural organisations and so inevitably, we have seen cultural
:55:11. > :55:12.organisations begin to question their business models, think about
:55:12. > :55:16.how they can adapt to new circumstances.
:55:16. > :55:18.This gallery grew from an institute founded in 1889 with the money left
:55:19. > :55:21.by the industrialist, Sir Joseph Whitworth. And now, increasingly,
:55:22. > :55:31.arts organisations in the North West are again turning to the business
:55:31. > :55:35.world for support. One thing we are trying to do in Manchester is get a
:55:35. > :55:38.group of businesses together who will act as a team to help the
:55:38. > :55:42.select group of arts organisations to really develop their business
:55:42. > :55:45.thinking. It is about bringing knowledge in, not just about the
:55:45. > :55:48.money. The arts have to be more entrepreneurial going forward.
:55:48. > :55:50.Manchester's Royal Exchange Theatre runs the UK's biggest playwriting
:55:50. > :55:59.competition, but couldn't do it without its corporate sponsor,
:55:59. > :56:04.Bruntwood. Money makes it happen, it means there is also on the back of
:56:04. > :56:10.that, a media partner which enables us to go national to sponsor it, and
:56:10. > :56:16.there is a whole website set up so there is support for that and a
:56:16. > :56:18.whole package of things that come with the sponsorship. It shows that
:56:18. > :56:24.we are an innovative, forward-thinking company that likes
:56:25. > :56:27.to think a bit more outside the box creatively so it has been good for
:56:27. > :56:29.our image. It's a model the Arts Council is
:56:29. > :56:32.trying to encourage other organisations to follow through its
:56:32. > :56:41.catalyst scheme. Last year, it gave �99,000 to Manchester Camerata to
:56:41. > :56:45.help it find new long-term sources of income. For smaller
:56:45. > :56:51.organisations, part of what the catalyst scheme can do is help them
:56:51. > :56:53.develop the skills, knowledge and contact is by working with some
:56:53. > :56:57.larger organisations who have already got those skills. There is a
:56:57. > :57:01.certain amount of passing on of learning to smaller organisations in
:57:01. > :57:05.the sector. Last year, businesses gave �8.1
:57:05. > :57:08.million to arts organisations in the North West. That's 11% more than the
:57:08. > :57:13.previous year. But the majority of money still goes to the capital,
:57:13. > :57:23.with 68% of business donations going to London last year. And some arts
:57:23. > :57:26.organisations think it's better not Blackburn's Thwaites Empire Theatre
:57:26. > :57:29.bears the name of a local brewery, but its sponsorship only pays a
:57:29. > :57:32.small proportion of the bills. With no grants or Government funding,
:57:32. > :57:40.they've learnt to be self sufficient - relying on ticket sales and the
:57:40. > :57:46.community. We do not rely on grants, and sit down and think where is the
:57:46. > :57:52.next grand coming from? Because we work on the theory that God helps
:57:52. > :58:00.those who work out to help themselves. Having the skills of
:58:00. > :58:02.marketing and having a wonderful trip of volunteers. -- wonderful
:58:02. > :58:05.troop of volunteers. They have learned the importance of
:58:05. > :58:07.showbusiness. The challenge is for other arts organisations is to learn
:58:07. > :58:10.the same tricks. And we're joined now from London by
:58:10. > :58:13.Katie Evans from the Centre for Economics and Business Research,
:58:13. > :58:21.which recently compiled a report on the value of arts and culture to the
:58:21. > :58:25.economy. Thanks for joining us. Give us the figure, how much is the arts
:58:25. > :58:33.worth to the Northwest economy? and culture made a direct
:58:33. > :58:37.contribution of 420 million pounds to the GDP of the Northwest in 2011.
:58:37. > :58:41.That is the spending of arts and cultural organisations directly and
:58:41. > :58:49.they're out put. When you then consider their interactions with
:58:49. > :58:52.firms across the economy, you find that that rises to nearly �1 billion
:58:52. > :58:58.so 5000 people are employed by arts and cultural organisations in the
:58:58. > :59:03.region but for each of those jobs, we find that another job at least
:59:04. > :59:08.created. Do you think it matters where the money comes from?
:59:08. > :59:15.problem is that it is difficult to know how an audience is going to
:59:15. > :59:19.react to a really innovative piece of art and that means a lot of risk
:59:19. > :59:25.in investing in it. That can mean that private-sector financial
:59:25. > :59:30.support can be reluctant and in that case, what we think is that public
:59:30. > :59:35.funding can act as a badge of quality and convince private sector
:59:35. > :59:44.donors that it is worth investing. Katie, thank you for your time.
:59:44. > :59:49.Mike, in Chester, you have the idea of revamping the theatre. You were
:59:49. > :59:55.turned down for lottery funding or Arts Council funding, you were
:59:55. > :00:00.putting in �40 million? The total cost of the project is about �40
:00:00. > :00:05.million and we are trying to reduce that cost. But a substantial amount
:00:05. > :00:08.from the council, is that value for money? I believe so because we are
:00:08. > :00:13.investing in that and sports centres and money is tight but we feel it's
:00:13. > :00:18.important for young people especially to get them to learn
:00:18. > :00:23.skills. What about the wider economy? It creates jobs and more
:00:23. > :00:27.importantly as more value to the quality of life of people in our
:00:27. > :00:31.borough and we believe that is important. For you, it is not just
:00:31. > :00:36.about boosting the local economy, you think it is worthwhile as a
:00:36. > :00:41.thing itself? Absolutely, and you can see the difference in Chester,
:00:41. > :00:45.it was called a cultural desert but now the mystery plays in the middle
:00:45. > :00:50.of June, that happens every five years, we have got theatre in the
:00:50. > :00:53.park, and you can see how it creates civic pride within your cities and
:00:53. > :00:58.towns and in Ellesmere Port which Andrew will tell you about, we have
:00:58. > :01:03.got parades happening for the first time in 15 years. Where should be
:01:03. > :01:08.funding becoming from, Andrew? broadly accept Mike's case for
:01:08. > :01:14.investment in arts and sport. Where I fall out with him is that I feel
:01:14. > :01:18.lots more can be done to develop funding streams from within the
:01:18. > :01:23.private sector. He is doing it in the arts sector and I am challenging
:01:23. > :01:29.him to do it in the sports sector as well. What do you mean?We are
:01:29. > :01:33.developing a concept of a sports village. I was at the heart of it
:01:33. > :01:37.some years ago and we already have an Olympic standard athletics track,
:01:37. > :01:43.we are looking for a swimming pool to go with that. Mike is going for a
:01:43. > :01:50.lower cost approach because he's not prepared to partner with the private
:01:50. > :01:54.sector. Believe... I would thought that he would be keen to go with the
:01:54. > :01:58.private sector? Yes, they want to provide extra capital costs and
:01:58. > :02:04.additional revenue cost for me to pull. We would go for it tomorrow
:02:04. > :02:12.and I invited Andrew to do this two years ago but money is very tight in
:02:12. > :02:20.the private sector. And the council leader... I am the council leader!
:02:20. > :02:26.The lead councillor did not have private sector involvement in the
:02:26. > :02:31.plan. Too much money going to London? In arts and sport, I would
:02:32. > :02:36.like to see more being concentrated in the region. And in science as
:02:36. > :02:45.well. It sucks in money in a way that is incredibly damaging to the
:02:45. > :02:49.Northwest economy. It is because there is an historic drive that
:02:49. > :02:55.sucks money towards the capital and that appear in the north-west, we
:02:55. > :03:01.have got this it is working together in concert to pull money into our
:03:01. > :03:05.region that were to gather money into our region. And I agree with
:03:05. > :03:09.Andrew on that, but we have got a fantastic science Park, let's make
:03:09. > :03:12.sure we maximise that and show Government that money spent here is
:03:12. > :03:16.what a great deal more than that spent in the South.
:03:16. > :03:19.Time for the rest of the week's news now in 60 seconds.
:03:19. > :03:24.A coroner is urging the Government to take action after a Lancashire
:03:24. > :03:31.teacher who changed sex killed herself. Michael Singleton said the
:03:31. > :03:34.media was guilty of "ill-informed bigotry".
:03:34. > :03:37.Liverpool had just celebrated its role in the Battle of the Atlantic
:03:37. > :03:42.when the Chancellor sailed in to announce funding to prepare the port
:03:42. > :03:44.for the future. 5000 jobs in the city and the potential of many
:03:44. > :03:46.thousands more. Derek Hatton defended his record as
:03:46. > :03:56.Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council, 30 years after Militant
:03:56. > :03:57.
:03:57. > :03:59.sparked one of the biggest political battles of our time. �20 million for
:03:59. > :04:02.being robbed by the Thatcher Government.
:04:02. > :04:05.Their high streets were supposed to get a new lease of life, but Nelson
:04:05. > :04:12.and Stockport are among the Mary Portas pilot towns that now have
:04:12. > :04:15.more empty shops than a year ago. And chip in with your views -
:04:15. > :04:22.Salford City Council is asking people what they think of plans to
:04:22. > :04:27.ban takeaways near schools. It's to try and tackle childhood obesity.
:04:27. > :04:34.Andrew, questions about whether the Mary Portis idea is working to
:04:34. > :04:37.revive the high street, what should be done? If local authorities and
:04:37. > :04:41.businesses and people are given power to drive their own destiny.
:04:41. > :04:48.But at the moment it is far too centralised approach. Bring it to
:04:48. > :04:54.local level and I am sure Mike will agree with me. I do agree, and it is