:00:41. > :00:47.Morning, welcome to the veritable Sunday Politics. We have Alastair
:00:47. > :00:53.Charmichael. We'll ask him what Sunday Politics. We have Alastair
:00:53. > :00:57.Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps has that his predecessor Michael
:00:57. > :01:04.Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps going on and on and on. He'll bang
:01:04. > :01:07.Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne
:01:07. > :01:36.says we've misunderstood the problem of human trafficking and that men
:01:36. > :01:41.pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick
:01:41. > :01:51.watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if
:01:51. > :02:00.Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen
:02:00. > :02:08.a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could
:02:08. > :02:14.Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the
:02:14. > :02:17.Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools
:02:17. > :02:25.after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of
:02:25. > :02:29.parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting
:02:29. > :02:32.parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new
:02:32. > :02:34.school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free
:02:34. > :02:41.enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free
:02:41. > :02:46.be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It
:02:46. > :03:00.teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on
:03:00. > :03:08.with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael
:03:08. > :03:11.changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have
:03:11. > :03:13.changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and
:03:13. > :03:17.changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of
:03:17. > :03:24.reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge
:03:24. > :03:32.of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.
:03:32. > :03:36.Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying
:03:36. > :03:42.Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip
:03:42. > :03:48.from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of
:03:48. > :03:52.need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,
:03:52. > :03:58.we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set
:03:58. > :04:07.these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,
:04:07. > :04:12.polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've
:04:12. > :04:14.polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael
:04:14. > :04:19.Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.
:04:19. > :04:25.And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy
:04:25. > :04:30.debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.
:04:30. > :04:33.This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.
:04:34. > :04:38.This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which
:04:38. > :04:46.is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?
:04:46. > :04:52.They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free
:04:52. > :04:58.only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I
:04:58. > :05:02.always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed
:05:02. > :05:06.Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether
:05:07. > :05:12.they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried
:05:12. > :05:16.the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the
:05:16. > :05:21.Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is
:05:21. > :05:25.no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say
:05:25. > :05:29.what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free
:05:29. > :05:36.schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet
:05:36. > :05:44.defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.
:05:44. > :05:56.If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they
:05:56. > :06:00.unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of
:06:00. > :06:06.higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience
:06:06. > :06:10.he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for
:06:10. > :06:18.Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD
:06:18. > :06:25.from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper
:06:25. > :06:35.teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not
:06:35. > :06:39.have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never
:06:39. > :06:49.been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow
:06:49. > :06:54.free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to
:06:54. > :06:58.Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do
:06:58. > :07:11.the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more
:07:11. > :07:16.#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,
:07:16. > :07:22.rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping
:07:22. > :07:28.beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in
:07:28. > :07:31.and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street
:07:31. > :07:35.and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to
:07:35. > :07:39.see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the
:07:39. > :07:47.back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started
:07:48. > :07:51.can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties
:07:51. > :07:57.changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.
:07:58. > :08:05.Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit
:08:05. > :08:10.Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm
:08:10. > :08:15.disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been
:08:15. > :08:19.able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one
:08:19. > :08:35.imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and
:08:35. > :08:43.simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of
:08:43. > :08:58.the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic
:08:58. > :09:03.Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet
:09:03. > :09:05.Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory
:09:05. > :09:10.ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory
:09:10. > :09:12.to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and
:09:12. > :09:21.turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men
:09:21. > :09:24.backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends
:09:24. > :09:30.of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers
:09:30. > :09:34.of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour
:09:34. > :09:37.too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.
:09:37. > :09:43.Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de
:09:43. > :09:47.peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing
:09:47. > :09:52.peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be
:09:52. > :09:58.the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was
:09:58. > :10:00.this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right
:10:00. > :10:04.used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right
:10:04. > :10:08.Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely
:10:08. > :10:11.with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain
:10:11. > :10:15.with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are
:10:15. > :10:18.still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we
:10:18. > :10:21.still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair
:10:21. > :10:32.are not long assassin flew enjoys as over. New bees were sharing the
:10:32. > :10:46.ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or
:10:46. > :10:48.ministers quietly thanked commits disified. How much much someone
:10:48. > :10:55.standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get
:10:55. > :11:02.someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!
:11:02. > :11:09.And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins
:11:09. > :11:16.us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used
:11:16. > :11:18.in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:18. > :11:21.hearing you loud and clear. Why wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:21. > :11:26.you agreed to run a department? wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:26. > :11:31.you wanted to abolish six years wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:31. > :11:37.Hello? Maybe our connections are not Charmichael. Can you hear me? I
:11:37. > :11:40.Hello? Maybe our connections are not hear you now. There was a nasty
:11:40. > :11:44.second there where you disappeared. Let me try the question again. Why
:11:44. > :11:50.have you agreed to run a department you wanted to abolish six years
:11:50. > :11:52.have you agreed to run a department Because this is the, probably one of
:11:52. > :11:57.the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure
:11:58. > :12:04.that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about
:12:04. > :12:08.the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of
:12:08. > :12:13.Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is
:12:13. > :12:15.true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a
:12:15. > :12:19.real voice in that debate. What making sure the UK Government has a
:12:19. > :12:24.you that Michael Moore didn't have? Look, I think Michael Moore did
:12:24. > :12:26.you that Michael Moore didn't have? excellent job. The work he did
:12:26. > :12:36.delivering the Edinburgh agreement clear legal and decisive referendum,
:12:36. > :12:40.the work delivering extra powers to substantial piece of work. I'm not
:12:40. > :12:48.friend of mine. I will say that substantial piece of work. I'm not
:12:48. > :12:52.we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself.
:12:52. > :12:56.we go forward into this, this is now will be putting the case, with some
:12:56. > :13:04.passion, I hope, for Scotland to just some abstract debate about
:13:04. > :13:11.nationhood, sovereignty, this is a their livelihoods, the cost of their
:13:11. > :13:21.mortgage. That and an awful lot challenge. I understand that. But if
:13:21. > :13:28.you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --
:13:28. > :13:33.poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing
:13:33. > :13:35.pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to
:13:35. > :13:43.Scotland? And lieu, you misread suspect you've been given the job to
:13:43. > :13:47.situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think
:13:47. > :13:51.anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people
:13:51. > :13:54.who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn
:13:54. > :13:56.who will save the union are the next year and vote to save the
:13:56. > :14:02.union. We have to put the case for that. That is what I will be doing.
:14:02. > :14:07.Look at the position of your own party. You came fourth in the last
:14:07. > :14:14.Scottish parentry elections. You were even behind the Conservatives.
:14:14. > :14:22.The latest poll has you still in fourth. Are you there because you're
:14:22. > :14:25.a bruiser and you will pep up the Liberal Democrats opportunity in
:14:25. > :14:30.Scotland. If I had a pound for everybody to referred to me as being
:14:30. > :14:32.Scotland. If I had a pound for a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be
:14:32. > :14:37.sitting here this morning. I could have retired by now. The truth of
:14:37. > :14:42.this, if I can address it once and for all, I have done probably one of
:14:43. > :14:47.the most complex and subtle jobs in three-and-a-half years, Liberal
:14:47. > :14:52.Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition survived in that job a week, let
:14:52. > :14:56.alone three-and-a-half years, if I was the sort of person who went
:14:56. > :15:01.around picking unnecessary fights. So, can we just please forget about
:15:01. > :15:04.this business about being a bruiser. As far as the position of the party
:15:04. > :15:09.in the polls, this is true also As far as the position of the party
:15:09. > :15:13.the referendum vote, opinion polls are a snapshot. They are not a
:15:13. > :15:18.prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there
:15:18. > :15:22.putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one
:15:22. > :15:29.or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against
:15:29. > :15:35.because we are a good margin ahead today, 12 months out from the actual
:15:35. > :15:42.polling day, that it is in the bag. Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As
:15:42. > :15:45.you know, wasn't for the Liberal Democrats. Not just talking about
:15:45. > :15:55.the polls. You came fourth in the You said you were happy to facial
:15:55. > :16:08.ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should David Cameron face him? I am happy
:16:08. > :16:15.debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex
:16:15. > :16:21.Nationalists to portray this as him? No, because that allows Alex
:16:21. > :16:25.sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy
:16:25. > :16:30.is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to
:16:30. > :16:38.be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David
:16:38. > :16:43.Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is
:16:43. > :16:48.not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,
:16:48. > :16:57.the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name
:16:57. > :17:04.wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described
:17:04. > :17:10.the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were
:17:10. > :17:17.you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I
:17:17. > :17:24.think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I
:17:24. > :17:30.we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:30. > :17:36.are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:36. > :17:41.hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has
:17:41. > :17:50.published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the
:17:50. > :17:56.head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because
:17:56. > :17:58.there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish
:17:58. > :18:03.and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish
:18:03. > :18:10.remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish
:18:10. > :18:15.distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.
:18:15. > :18:22.Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.
:18:22. > :18:27.supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the
:18:27. > :18:28.supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it
:18:28. > :18:34.supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if
:18:34. > :18:39.website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a
:18:39. > :18:50.better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef
:18:50. > :18:54.better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.
:18:54. > :19:03.minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I
:19:03. > :19:09.would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it
:19:09. > :19:11.would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy
:19:11. > :19:14.it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:14. > :19:19.on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:19. > :19:24.I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have
:19:25. > :19:30.survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this
:19:30. > :19:37.reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,
:19:38. > :19:48.asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my
:19:48. > :19:52.role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings
:19:52. > :19:57.of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.
:19:57. > :20:03.You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why
:20:03. > :20:06.You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to
:20:06. > :20:11.achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since
:20:11. > :20:17.I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get
:20:17. > :20:21.governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems
:20:21. > :20:25.is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is
:20:25. > :20:29.is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.
:20:29. > :20:30.The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you
:20:30. > :20:35.might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you
:20:35. > :20:38.bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you
:20:38. > :20:40.that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you
:20:40. > :20:43.experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the
:20:44. > :20:51.Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on
:20:51. > :20:57.Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain
:20:57. > :21:04.adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda
:21:04. > :21:13.on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and
:21:13. > :21:19.representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have
:21:19. > :21:24.firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of
:21:24. > :21:28.Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is
:21:28. > :21:32.Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in
:21:32. > :21:38.Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after
:21:38. > :21:45.the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last
:21:45. > :21:49.the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme
:21:49. > :21:54.nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party
:21:54. > :22:00.must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are
:22:00. > :22:07.desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to
:22:07. > :22:12.referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get
:22:12. > :22:15.across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing
:22:15. > :22:17.across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the
:22:17. > :22:22.commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do
:22:22. > :22:29.bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a
:22:29. > :22:36.leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from
:22:36. > :22:41.influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on
:22:41. > :22:48.influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we
:22:48. > :22:52.spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being
:22:52. > :23:00.threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will
:23:00. > :23:04.threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.
:23:04. > :23:07.It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be
:23:07. > :23:17.seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I
:23:17. > :23:24.seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice
:23:24. > :23:29.was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and
:23:29. > :23:33.leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in
:23:33. > :23:41.even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I
:23:41. > :23:46.got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I
:23:46. > :23:55.investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.
:23:55. > :24:02.investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward
:24:02. > :24:05.the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that
:24:05. > :24:10.the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to
:24:10. > :24:15.That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:15. > :24:23.particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:23. > :24:25.Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:25. > :24:34.nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?
:24:34. > :24:40.one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it
:24:40. > :24:44.would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the
:24:44. > :24:54.dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a
:24:54. > :25:01.strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree
:25:01. > :25:07.persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives
:25:07. > :25:11.Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a
:25:11. > :25:15.ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and
:25:15. > :25:20.ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the
:25:20. > :25:26.Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong
:25:26. > :25:31.Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced
:25:31. > :25:36.terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in
:25:36. > :25:41.the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I
:25:41. > :25:43.have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you
:25:43. > :25:46.get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you
:25:46. > :25:53.themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this
:25:53. > :25:59.country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I
:25:59. > :26:04.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not
:26:04. > :26:08.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to
:26:08. > :26:12.that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed
:26:12. > :26:17.that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently
:26:17. > :26:21.upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government
:26:21. > :26:28.I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you
:26:28. > :26:37.have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern
:26:37. > :26:45.us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided
:26:45. > :26:49.going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,
:26:49. > :26:52.anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the
:26:52. > :27:26.Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in
:27:26. > :27:29.disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit
:27:29. > :27:31.disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing
:27:31. > :27:32.the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:32. > :27:35.prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:35. > :27:39.former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in
:27:39. > :27:43.the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a
:27:43. > :27:47.political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is
:27:47. > :27:50.clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your
:27:50. > :27:55.career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I
:27:55. > :27:58.career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am
:27:58. > :28:03.passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things
:28:03. > :28:09.on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,
:28:09. > :28:09.on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:09. > :28:14.on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:14. > :28:21.of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on
:28:21. > :28:25.political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of
:28:25. > :28:29.political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he
:28:29. > :28:33.rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was
:28:33. > :28:39.actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same
:28:39. > :28:45.thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why
:28:45. > :28:47.thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not
:28:47. > :29:18.offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?
:29:18. > :29:23.coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own
:29:23. > :29:30.Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are
:29:30. > :29:33.going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib
:29:33. > :29:41.Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib
:29:41. > :29:46.interesting election because I think you will have essentially three
:29:46. > :29:55.party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a
:29:55. > :30:01.battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,
:30:01. > :30:12.the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't
:30:12. > :30:17.the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,
:30:17. > :30:17.the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:17. > :30:25.leadership be in jeopardy? I've could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:25. > :30:31.in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:31. > :30:35.very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general
:30:35. > :30:40.election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in
:30:40. > :30:42.jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I
:30:42. > :30:45.think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I
:30:45. > :30:48.next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most
:30:48. > :30:53.people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most
:30:53. > :30:57.another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in
:30:57. > :31:01.coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in
:31:01. > :31:06.have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to
:31:06. > :31:10.colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour
:31:10. > :31:15.Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of
:31:15. > :31:21.the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is
:31:21. > :31:24.the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because
:31:24. > :31:29.we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't
:31:29. > :31:34.take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to
:31:34. > :31:38.coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with
:31:38. > :31:42.either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer
:31:42. > :31:46.Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It
:31:46. > :31:53.is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things
:31:53. > :31:56.you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand
:31:56. > :32:00.up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand
:32:00. > :32:04.for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping
:32:04. > :32:11.up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise
:32:11. > :32:13.up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's
:32:14. > :32:18.up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a
:32:18. > :32:23.sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which
:32:23. > :32:28.led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift
:32:28. > :32:35.everybody automatically to the unfortunately we're at the stage in
:32:35. > :32:41.the political cycle where we are getting clap trap. You're against
:32:42. > :32:45.the freeze? It is a bad idea when we are trying to encourage investment.
:32:45. > :32:51.When the market can give us some of the lowest gas and electricity
:32:51. > :32:54.son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian
:32:54. > :32:59.prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our
:32:59. > :33:04.base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look
:33:04. > :33:06.at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after
:33:06. > :33:11.all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after
:33:11. > :33:51.green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok
:33:51. > :34:01.not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives
:34:01. > :34:03.not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue
:34:03. > :34:07.raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about
:34:07. > :34:13.green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,
:34:13. > :34:18.wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style
:34:18. > :34:22.press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it
:34:22. > :34:28.refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither
:34:28. > :34:31.refuses to sign up to the Leveson nor there. The Guardian gives me a
:34:31. > :34:36.up to what you believe in will you up to what you believe in will you
:34:36. > :34:39.support it? No because I'm sure up to what you believe in will you
:34:39. > :34:44.they'll allow me to make that that point. I think newspapers will sign
:34:44. > :34:48.up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in
:34:48. > :34:52.recent years. Unparalleled. They need a third party endorsement to
:34:52. > :34:58.say these guys have cleaned up their act. If they are going to get trust
:34:58. > :35:04.haven't signed up, which they won't, you can come back and we'll talk
:35:04. > :35:10.You're watching the Sunday politics. Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll
:35:10. > :35:33.I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in the North West: 60 years on and still
:35:33. > :35:36.solving the housing crisis — will Help to Buy kick—start construction?
:35:36. > :35:39.And joining our happy home this week, the Labour MP for Worsley
:35:39. > :35:41.And joining our happy home this Eccles South, Barbara Keeley. And
:35:41. > :35:53.for the Conservatives, Jake Berry, the MP for Rossendale and Darwen.
:35:53. > :35:58.reshuffle. It is flattering a view to say that I should have been
:35:58. > :36:04.promotions for people from the North conservative women going into the
:36:04. > :36:15.administration as well. We will conservative women going into the
:36:15. > :36:22.continue as an age to Ed Balls. I do, and it is a great place to be. I
:36:22. > :36:28.think the reshuffle has been great, cabinet is women. I think it will be
:36:28. > :36:42.a long time before the Conservative Balls? It's interesting. It is the
:36:42. > :36:52.is a great guy to work with. A great ??NEWLINe Yes, it's been a week
:36:52. > :36:54.is a great guy to work with. A great promotions, demotions and moves
:36:54. > :37:00.sideways. It's the equivalent of the football transfer window without the
:37:00. > :37:12.money or the glamour. Plenty of implications for policy too. Claire
:37:12. > :37:15.Inching her way from the GMTV sofa to the front bench, Esther McVey's
:37:15. > :37:20.promotion recognises the work she's done on some difficult briefs. The
:37:20. > :37:24.Wirral West MP made the latest leg of her journey to the top table
:37:24. > :37:25.Wirral West MP made the latest leg Government with a promotion to
:37:25. > :37:33.Employment Minister after her work on welfare reform. You can count on
:37:33. > :37:40.the fingers of one hand the number of women Conservative ministers
:37:40. > :37:42.the fingers of one hand the number are from Merseyside. They are very
:37:42. > :37:51.rare species. The last one was back in the 1980s. It's freezing energy
:37:51. > :37:58.prices are good idea or a Communist part) —— Communist plot? We will
:37:58. > :38:01.give them the reasons! Another North west MP finds himself championing
:38:01. > :38:05.one of Labour's flagship policies. And with fracking also a big issue
:38:05. > :38:08.in the North West, there could be a bumpy ride ahead for newly promoted
:38:08. > :38:12.Jonathan Reynolds as Shadow Energy and Climate Change Minister. I think
:38:12. > :38:18.shale gas could be part of the solution. I don't think it will
:38:18. > :38:20.shale gas could be part of the quite big game changing magic button
:38:20. > :38:22.that it has been in some other countries, but people do have some
:38:23. > :38:26.very valid concerned. The Liverpool Garston and Halewood MP Maria Eagle
:38:26. > :38:29.was shunted from Shadow Transport to Environment. A big supporter of
:38:29. > :38:33.was shunted from Shadow Transport to — does her removal signal the party
:38:33. > :38:37.distancing itself from the project? I don't think this is going to harm
:38:37. > :38:45.the project in any way, shape, or form. There will be a strong message
:38:45. > :38:53.of support after the next election. international development to become
:38:53. > :38:58.Northern Ireland. And as predicted on this programme last month... It
:38:58. > :39:07.is being suggested you are the most likely person to lose your job and
:39:07. > :39:10.—— in every shuffle. As predicted on this programme last month, Liverpool
:39:10. > :39:14.West Derby Mp Stephen Twigg finds his career hitting the buffers,
:39:14. > :39:18.Secretary. The end of the era for Blarites perhaps, though Leigh MP
:39:18. > :39:19.Andy Burnham remains on course for a head—on collision with Jeremy Hunt
:39:19. > :39:22.after keeping his Health brief. head—on collision with Jeremy Hunt
:39:22. > :39:23.we started off with the news about Esther McVeigh. Do you welcome
:39:23. > :39:30.that? And other prominent women Esther McVeigh. Do you welcome
:39:30. > :39:33.politics? I think it helps all of us that there are women in the other
:39:33. > :39:38.parties, so I welcome it. But I think that the Conservative party
:39:38. > :39:46.has a long way to go. They talk about 30% of the Cabinet being
:39:46. > :39:50.They have a long way to go. Do you accept that you have a problem? I am
:39:50. > :39:57.yesterday well, because we were accept that you have a problem? I am
:39:57. > :40:00.around the corner from each other. She is exceptionally bright. Whether
:40:00. > :40:07.she happens to be male or female, she is the right kind of person
:40:07. > :40:11.she happens to be male or female, part of the reason, I understand the
:40:11. > :40:15.argument about her talent, was part of the reason though also that the
:40:15. > :40:21.Conservative party once to see women have more voices from the North
:40:21. > :40:21.Conservative party once to see women Government? It is important that the
:40:21. > :40:25.Government is representative of Government? It is important that the
:40:25. > :40:30.society as a whole. We have 22 north—west and we need some of those
:40:30. > :40:32.voices in Government. We have lots of women MPs. We need more women to
:40:32. > :40:38.be ministers and in the Cabinet of women MPs. We need more women to
:40:38. > :40:50.we are making good progress. She is certainly like. I think she is
:40:50. > :40:55.excellent. There is an important point about why David Cameron needs
:40:55. > :41:02.women. He has a real problem, he and George Osborne have great difficulty
:41:02. > :41:07.hit women had very hard —— hit women very hard with their policies. It
:41:07. > :41:13.does not help that they have hit women so hard. I hope Esther will be
:41:13. > :41:17.advocating the fact that we have taken many of the lowest people
:41:18. > :41:19.advocating the fact that we have of tax altogether. We have seen
:41:19. > :41:31.their tax bill cut in half by this many of whom are in part—time work,
:41:31. > :41:38.to balance family life. You were not overly impressed by Esther's role as
:41:38. > :41:43.disabilities minister, where you? My constituency is very hard hit by the
:41:43. > :41:46.bedroom tax. It is really hitting families of disabled people, carers
:41:46. > :41:52.who cannot do anything to earn more, to get out of the arrears and pay
:41:52. > :41:55.the rent. Can I ask you about the overall position. When the coalition
:41:56. > :42:02.Government came in, there were three ministers who were Northwest MPs.
:42:02. > :42:09.Now, several years on, we are still Northwest. Is that a problem? I
:42:09. > :42:17.would certainly like to see more voices from the Northwest. I think
:42:17. > :42:24.it takes time. If you let me finish, in 2010, we had a whole new group of
:42:24. > :42:26.represent the Northwest. It takes time for those people to make their
:42:26. > :42:29.mark and get their feet on the ground and get into office. What is
:42:29. > :42:32.quite refreshing, I think, is a ground and get into office. What is
:42:32. > :42:37.of reshuffling that we have had ground and get into office. What is
:42:37. > :42:40.Government. People in the Secretary of State team, lots of people have
:42:40. > :42:44.been in that job for three years. They are really getting stuck in. If
:42:44. > :42:50.you have to change it every six They are really getting stuck in. If
:42:50. > :42:55.seven months like Tony Blair... Labour could have been too much
:42:55. > :43:03.change, but when Labour was in Cabinet ministers one point. We
:43:03. > :43:08.still have four shadow Cabinet members. It matters because of
:43:08. > :43:11.region needs to be represented and its issues need to be represented.
:43:11. > :43:17.The interesting thing about this week is that we have the whole of
:43:17. > :43:27.the health team and Northwest. Jamie Read Tannock, Ed, and if we have
:43:27. > :43:35.represented. Onto high—speed rail, is the Labour Party getting cold
:43:35. > :43:41.feet on HS two? I think what the Labour Party is doing is rightly
:43:41. > :43:45.price just keep going up. Ed Balls said in his conference beach that
:43:45. > :43:50.there are no blank cheques for this policy, and our new Shadow Secretary
:43:50. > :43:59.of State said this week that David Cameron's Government is too fond of
:43:59. > :44:02.that project. With Labour, there are no blank cheques. It is totally
:44:02. > :44:08.wrong for a project like that to spiral out of control. Jake, a quick
:44:08. > :44:17.response? I think the real line spiral out of control. Jake, a quick
:44:17. > :44:21.have said that it will be delivered on—time on budget, and quite a lot
:44:21. > :44:24.of the overspend is contingent. on—time on budget, and quite a lot
:44:24. > :44:28.just look at the benefits it will bring to Manchester. Manchester
:44:28. > :44:32.just look at the benefits it will be within 68 minutes of the capital.
:44:32. > :44:38.That is one of the best ways to Now, this week, Liverpool City
:44:38. > :44:42.recipient of its first one—pound home. Taxi driver Jayalal Madde
:44:42. > :44:44.recipient of its first one—pound given the keys to the house in
:44:44. > :44:49.Toxteth by Mayor Joe Anderson, along with a DIY instruction manual. He
:44:49. > :44:54.was one of more than a thousand applicants for 20 properties. It's
:44:54. > :44:58.part of the council's plan to bring a thousand empty homes back into
:44:58. > :45:02.Well, Merseyside is just one area facing a housing shortage. Across
:45:02. > :45:08.the North West, demand is predicted thousands of homes in the next few
:45:09. > :45:11.years. So will phase two of the government's Help to Buy Scheme
:45:11. > :45:16.kick—start construction in the region? Phase one allowed first—time
:45:16. > :45:19.buyers to borrow up to 20% of the value of a new build home from the
:45:19. > :45:25.Government, interest—free for the first five years. Phase two is open
:45:25. > :45:32.to first—time buyers and existing home owners. The lender will be
:45:32. > :45:35.to first—time buyers and existing Government covering up to 15% of the
:45:35. > :45:40.value of the property. Both are available on properties worth up to
:45:40. > :45:54.£600,000. Well, Elaine Dunkley's been asking if it will solve a
:45:54. > :45:59.problem that stretches back decades. We must make up for the arrears
:45:59. > :46:04.problem that stretches back decades. housing left by 50 years of Tory
:46:04. > :46:06.bursting, home ownership has been a preoccupation of governments past
:46:07. > :46:09.and present. In 1979 Thatcher's Government introduced the Right
:46:09. > :46:19.and present. In 1979 Thatcher's Buy, and councils were forced to
:46:19. > :46:27.sell their housing stock. Take your forward to this Government and their
:46:27. > :46:30.offering is the Help to Buy Scheme. Young working couples are still
:46:30. > :46:34.living at home with their parents. So, it's out with the bank of mum
:46:34. > :46:37.and dad and in with Government backed loans. Claire Archer is a
:46:37. > :46:46.personal fitness trainer, and now flat was priced at £128,000, she put
:46:46. > :47:01.down a 5% deposit and borrowed a 20% difficult for me. I did not have a
:47:01. > :47:06.lot of savings or a large deposit. And now have my own two—bedroom
:47:06. > :47:11.property, which is ideal. It was a lot better than what I was the king
:47:11. > :47:13.at without Help to Buy. The second phase of Help to Buy is now being
:47:13. > :47:18.getting hands on cash which has phase of Help to Buy is now being
:47:18. > :47:19.a problem. Government figures show that construction fell in the region
:47:19. > :47:23.by 47% compared to its peak in that construction fell in the region
:47:23. > :47:29.and according to a report for the North west over the next five years
:47:29. > :47:37.homes because there's not enough land available to build on. A couple
:47:37. > :47:40.building the future, and now a couple who built homes we told on a
:47:40. > :47:46.double—decker bus! This was one solution offered in the 1940's to a
:47:46. > :47:53.lack of housing. Decades on, and we are still defining home sweet home.
:47:53. > :47:58.Property Developer Dr Francis Loow is taking inspiration from the Far
:47:58. > :48:03.This entire flat is just 20 metres square. I do not believe Britain has
:48:03. > :48:09.a scarcity of land compared to Hong Kong. The key is that the Hong Kong
:48:09. > :48:15.Government also recognises that there is no need to have a big
:48:15. > :48:19.apartment. They start putting up tiny apartments. We have to be
:48:19. > :48:26.realistic. People cannot afford tiny apartments. We have to be
:48:26. > :48:30.live in a bigger apartment. We have had 75 sales. Summer Hill Park is a
:48:30. > :48:33.new development in Liverpool. The sales office has been inundated
:48:33. > :48:33.new development in Liverpool. The buyers wanting to take up the second
:48:33. > :48:37.phase of the Help to Buy scheme buyers wanting to take up the second
:48:37. > :48:45.but developers getting planning permission to build is still a major
:48:45. > :48:52.concern. You can just imagine the total bureaucracy that gets in the
:48:52. > :48:58.Statistically, there are a lot of permission. The reality is that
:48:58. > :49:01.Statistically, there are a lot of just over half of those voices are
:49:01. > :49:08.no deliverable, because the rest are bogged down in red tape —— are now
:49:08. > :49:10.it deliverable. From building to borrowing there are many factors
:49:10. > :49:16.involved in getting the housing confidence but it's measured with
:49:16. > :49:21.caution for those wanting to get a step up on the property ladder.
:49:21. > :49:23.caution for those wanting to get a we're also joined now by Daniel
:49:23. > :49:32.Klemm from the National Housing doing? Well, the Government is doing
:49:32. > :49:36.a great thing with Help to Buy. doing? Well, the Government is doing
:49:36. > :49:41.is helping people to move up. What comprehensive approach. Think about
:49:41. > :49:45.those people who might want to rent to the private sector. We need to
:49:45. > :49:51.tackle the problem of supply as opposed to just the issue of buying.
:49:51. > :49:56.You are not worried that they Help to Buy scheme could create a housing
:49:56. > :50:00.bubble? We are worried about that. But we will have to wait and manage
:50:00. > :50:06.that very carefully. The real way to tackle the housing crisis is to
:50:06. > :50:09.recognise that we have not built enough homes. We need homes of all
:50:09. > :50:14.different shapes and sizes that enough homes. We need homes of all
:50:14. > :50:24.available to buy. Do you agree that there should be more homes built,
:50:24. > :50:27.committed to that. And I am on Twitter, and I tweeted this week
:50:27. > :50:33.that anyone who talks about the housing bubble should think about
:50:33. > :50:39.people under the age of 25. And housing bubble should think about
:50:39. > :50:45.depressed housing market. But people want to move on. We want to help
:50:45. > :50:49.them move on. What happens if the market collapses because people
:50:49. > :50:55.cannot afford these mortgages? This is not for them. This is a two
:50:55. > :50:56.people —— this is saying to people that we recognise that not everybody
:50:56. > :51:02.has rich parents or can afford that we recognise that not everybody
:51:02. > :51:07.deposit. But if you can prove that you are in a steady job and can
:51:07. > :51:12.afford the mortgage, but you can only save a 5% deposit, that should
:51:12. > :51:22.not stop you from owning your own important. That may not be world I
:51:22. > :51:28.mid—ranking city bankers are keen to use this so they don't have to put
:51:28. > :51:37.them big deposits for expensive properties in London —— that may not
:51:37. > :51:41.this has been sold to the public on the basis of the first—time buyer
:51:41. > :51:50.will stop going up to £600,000 is a very extensive amount. If they could
:51:50. > :51:57.afford it, then it is not hitting hard. I looked yesterday and there
:51:57. > :52:05.were some houses in my constituency why should those taxpayers pay for a
:52:05. > :52:10.scheme, £12 million for a scheme, that is helping out city bankers
:52:10. > :52:12.that don't have the same concerns? Of course, the taxpayer is not
:52:12. > :52:17.putting any of this town. It is Of course, the taxpayer is not
:52:17. > :52:23.guaranteed. And if you want the housing market to work, we inherited
:52:23. > :52:27.a broken housing market, Labour broke the housing market. You have
:52:27. > :52:32.to fix the whole market. You can say we are only going to deal with
:52:32. > :52:43.first—time buyers. People have to be market. This scheme is about fixing
:52:43. > :52:48.politics of this that you want to make people feel richer, and that if
:52:48. > :52:51.prices go up you don't really mind? The politics of this is that if
:52:51. > :52:55.prices go up you don't really mind? want to come to my constituency
:52:55. > :52:57.prices go up you don't really mind? primary teacher, you cannot say
:52:57. > :53:02.£50,000 for a deposit between her and her husband. They have a steady
:53:02. > :53:06.job and contribute to society. The politics of this is that we should
:53:06. > :53:10.help them, it is the right thing to do. I don't need to come to your
:53:10. > :53:15.constituency to talk to people who ladder. The reason they cannot is
:53:15. > :53:19.because house prices are so high, that is the point. I think the
:53:19. > :53:35.biggest problem is actually the deposit barrier. In the Northwest,
:53:35. > :53:42.deposit for the house. We are trying to support those people. I think it
:53:42. > :53:46.would be really interesting to measure which part of the country
:53:46. > :53:50.this ghosted. I hope the Treasury is looking at it. If it all goes to
:53:50. > :53:55.London and causes of bubble and pushes up prices, it will not help
:53:55. > :53:58.anybody. There is no guarantee this will help first—time buyers. One of
:53:58. > :54:07.private developers is that they will help first—time buyers. One of
:54:07. > :54:15.to see the man —— man in the market. You don't think they're doing enough
:54:15. > :54:19.house—building community has not kept up with demand in our country.
:54:19. > :54:25.Why is that? We so Steve Morgan kept up with demand in our country.
:54:25. > :54:33.saying that the problem is too much red tape. Planning permission needs
:54:33. > :54:42.to be looked at. The planning system needs to be changed entirely. It has
:54:42. > :54:47.never been easier. In Salford, we have got 12,800 properties that
:54:47. > :54:51.already have planning permission on sites that could actually go ahead.
:54:51. > :54:56.But for some reason they are not. It is not a planning permission issue.
:54:56. > :55:02.Is it about building houses to keep the prices up? What I see is that
:55:02. > :55:09.the developers do not want to go ahead on these sites. They don't
:55:09. > :55:14.want to build on brown field sites, which is what we would prefer that
:55:14. > :55:20.they do. I do oppose development if it is is in an inappropriate place.
:55:20. > :55:24.But we need to build more houses. If you look at the figures, I want
:55:24. > :55:30.But we need to build more houses. If see everything where it needs to be.
:55:30. > :55:39.You are clear about what you want? What I am saying to you is that
:55:39. > :55:43.You are clear about what you want? constituency, so there must be a
:55:43. > :55:53.problem. That was a community field. What I did want to say is that in
:55:53. > :55:54.increase in the number of houses built this year. We need to look at
:55:54. > :56:03.new construction methods. Thank built this year. We need to look at
:56:03. > :56:08.Time for the rest of the week's built this year. We need to look at
:56:08. > :56:10.Lawyers acting for the families built this year. We need to look at
:56:10. > :56:13.21 Hillsborough victims told a hearing ahead of new inquests that
:56:13. > :56:23.police footage of the disaster may have been edited before being given
:56:23. > :56:25.to them. Nothing has been done. Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk said
:56:25. > :56:30.police powers to restrict anyone vulnerable adults — even if they
:56:30. > :56:37.haven't committed a crime — might have prevented the grooming scandal.
:56:37. > :56:42.We would have been able to protect the girls that were so clearly
:56:42. > :56:45.Apprentices from Merseyside and Manchester were among a hundred
:56:45. > :56:47.civil service trainees to attend an official launch of the scheme in
:56:47. > :56:51.Westminster. The Government gave Liverpool £2.7 million to improve
:56:51. > :56:53.bus services in the same week the Transport Minister said scrapping
:56:53. > :56:57.its bus lanes sent a "worrying And the scientists who developed
:56:57. > :57:00.graphene — the world's thinnest And the scientists who developed
:57:00. > :57:16.strongest material — will receive Manchester. They've already won
:57:16. > :57:23.Barbara, these sexual risk orders that that MP takes is a good idea,
:57:23. > :57:27.what the user? We must do something about the sexual grooming that has
:57:27. > :57:32.gone on. I think they would be a very good thing, because we must
:57:32. > :57:35.protect our young people. What do you think about the idea that he
:57:35. > :57:41.would be targeting people that have not been convicted? We would have to
:57:41. > :57:44.look at the evidence. If we can prevent one child or young person
:57:44. > :57:48.being a victim of the sort of crime than it is something that we should
:57:48. > :57:54.support. I would like to pay tribute to Simon and the working has done on
:57:54. > :58:01.this across the house. You would want safeguards so? You would, but
:58:01. > :58:09.it is very important for these listened to, and that we are taking
:58:09. > :58:26.That is all we have time for. Back ministerial team this week with
:58:26. > :58:29.That is all we have time for. Back commentators calling it the purge of
:58:29. > :58:34.the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane
:58:34. > :58:39.Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on
:58:39. > :58:43.the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending
:58:43. > :58:52.the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.
:58:52. > :58:59.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He think the thing that did it for
:58:59. > :59:05.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He was me coming out on Syria. This was
:59:05. > :59:05.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He a purge of the Blairites, how did
:59:05. > :59:10.you become collateral damage? I a purge of the Blairites, how did
:59:10. > :59:13.no idea but the fact that I was a purge of the Blairites, how did
:59:13. > :59:19.one member of the front bench to go public about my concerns on Syria
:59:19. > :59:24.probably tipped my enemies in the party machinery over the edge. But
:59:24. > :59:27.he went your way on Syria, in the end he agreed with your line on
:59:28. > :59:33.Syria so why would that be for dismissal? I agree with you - you're
:59:33. > :59:40.fired. Because I actually spoke dismissal? I agree with you - you're
:59:40. > :59:48.and it was the fact that I spoke up, which was like a pebble falling
:59:48. > :59:52.and it was the fact that I spoke up, forest or something. I am glad I
:59:52. > :00:08.spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like people around them than who are
:00:08. > :00:15.outspoken, who speak their minds? I think he's convinced he needs people
:00:15. > :00:21.who read from the scripts. People increasingly upset that even though
:00:21. > :00:24.who read from the scripts. People I was speaking party policy, I was
:00:24. > :00:30.reading from the script. Since Mr Miliband bid you farewell, you've
:00:30. > :00:38.said he's doing his best. Is his best good enough? I am sure it will
:00:39. > :00:44.be. I've always said the Labour Party chose the right Miliband.
:00:44. > :00:45.be. I've always said the Labour will remain loyal to him on the
:00:45. > :00:51.backbenches. You're going to be loyal? However, I want to join in
:00:51. > :00:57.the debate. You're going to be loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both
:00:57. > :00:59.in public and private when others were bitching about him behind the
:00:59. > :01:06.from the backbenches, I hope to were bitching about him behind the
:01:06. > :01:10.involved in the debate particularly around nick policy. Et's see how
:01:10. > :01:12.loyal you are. You must be happy with all this new tough talk on
:01:12. > :01:22.welfare and free schools? Well, with all this new tough talk on
:01:22. > :01:28.think both Rachel and Tristram are very talented. We're going to have
:01:28. > :01:33.to see how this all plays out. The issue of free schools, they are
:01:33. > :01:34.to see how this all plays out. The thing. But diminishing the role
:01:34. > :01:35.to see how this all plays out. The local authorities is another. There
:01:35. > :01:43.need strong local authorities. I'm local authorities is another. There
:01:43. > :01:47.sure Tristram will be aware of that. As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel
:01:47. > :01:53.knows some of the cuts the Tories have made have been counter prod
:01:53. > :01:58.ublingtive in -- productive in terms of spending. You wouldn't call that
:01:58. > :02:05.your full-hearted endorsement, would you? What are you on, and lieu?
:02:05. > :02:09.your full-hearted endorsement, would haven't seen the detail of Rachel's
:02:09. > :02:13.new position. You have to wait and see the detail. It is in the papers.
:02:13. > :02:17.You haven't stopped reading the papers. It was the Observer. When
:02:17. > :02:21.will you announce you're running for Mayor of London? I have no plans to
:02:21. > :02:26.announce that I'm running for Mayor Mayor of London? I have no plans to
:02:26. > :02:30.of London. No plans. That's what Michael his I will Tyne used to
:02:30. > :02:31.of London. No plans. That's what me. He had no plans to run against
:02:31. > :02:38.Margaret Thatcher. Are these the same kind of plans you have? I know.
:02:38. > :02:45.No, no. I have no plans. You know going for it. Everybody knows you're
:02:45. > :02:56.going for it. Just fess up to your old mate! ! I have no plans to run.
:02:56. > :03:03.If you did run, who would be, what would be your biggest threat other
:03:03. > :03:14.than yourself? I think there's a lot of very talented candidates, David
:03:14. > :03:18.They are all talented. I would have to weigh up the field. What do you
:03:18. > :03:20.think your chances would be of getting the taxi drivers' vote?
:03:20. > :03:28.Well, you know, Andrew, some of getting the taxi drivers' vote?
:03:28. > :03:33.most loyal viewers of This Week getting the taxi drivers' vote?
:03:33. > :03:38.were taxi drivers and their wives. I'm not frightened of reaching out
:03:38. > :03:43.to middle England. You will find if you walk around London sub usual ya,
:03:43. > :03:47.they all know me and they all love This Week. Love This Week. I thought
:03:47. > :03:54.you were going to say they all love you. One person who loves you, is
:03:54. > :03:57.Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy chappie on Thursday night. You can't
:03:57. > :04:04.see it but you can hear. This is what he said. I was disappointed for
:04:04. > :04:07.her. She had decided to leave this something else in politics. She
:04:07. > :04:11.wanted to do something serious. something else in politics. She
:04:12. > :04:14.had taken what appeared to be a something else in politics. She
:04:14. > :04:20.position but taken it extremely serious and was committed to the
:04:20. > :04:29.issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a
:04:29. > :04:37.thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask
:04:37. > :04:40.thing. You just mentioned about Someone who's an eminent person
:04:40. > :04:43.thing. You just mentioned about this programme, I don't know how he
:04:43. > :04:47.could do that. I think Michael's missing you. Are you free this
:04:47. > :04:52.Thursday night? Make him a happy man, come back to the fold. I think
:04:52. > :04:57.I may be free this Thursday night. So, if he'll have me, I'll be there.
:04:57. > :05:02.My people will speak to your people. We'll get it sorted out. Diane,
:05:02. > :05:07.watch that big vase behind you, you're not insured for. That thanks
:05:08. > :05:13.Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well
:05:13. > :05:19.known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside
:05:19. > :05:21.known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally
:05:21. > :05:26.done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor
:05:26. > :05:29.done well in the mayoral election. running an economy the size of a
:05:29. > :05:31.nation. It is a very serious job. There may be problems with her
:05:31. > :05:39.running? That was a transparent There may be problems with her
:05:39. > :05:50.for it. She's potentially a very compelling Coll ticks. People have
:05:50. > :05:58.left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said
:05:58. > :06:03.he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What
:06:03. > :06:09.do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of
:06:09. > :06:13.connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She
:06:13. > :06:21.would be a very strong candidate in candidate. It will probably be a
:06:21. > :06:25.Labour win next time. Depends, if Labour wins the 2015 election it may
:06:26. > :06:31.be more difficult. There's a danger for Labour that Diane is the big
:06:31. > :06:36.personality liked by the party primary but isn't necessarily a
:06:36. > :06:40.personality liked by the party in come the London general election?
:06:40. > :06:46.That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to
:06:46. > :06:51.win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I
:06:51. > :06:55.think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from
:06:55. > :07:04.their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that
:07:04. > :07:06.were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:06. > :07:10.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:10. > :07:11.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing
:07:12. > :07:21.than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing
:07:21. > :07:29.stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by
:07:29. > :07:34.This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those
:07:34. > :07:38.people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into
:07:38. > :07:43.coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there
:07:43. > :07:46.coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred
:07:47. > :07:49.areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the
:07:49. > :07:52.Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the
:07:52. > :07:58.immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went
:07:58. > :08:03.down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home
:08:03. > :08:13.somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg
:08:13. > :08:18.has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,
:08:18. > :08:22.away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's
:08:22. > :08:27.won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes
:08:27. > :08:29.won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home
:08:29. > :08:33.Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The
:08:33. > :08:39.Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is
:08:39. > :08:44.that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That
:08:44. > :08:48.involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats
:08:48. > :08:59.losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created
:08:59. > :09:07.for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been
:09:07. > :09:13.on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on
:09:13. > :09:15.to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the
:09:15. > :09:20.parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the
:09:20. > :09:31.will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We
:09:31. > :09:37.moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord
:09:37. > :09:45.Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state
:09:45. > :09:51.involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media
:09:51. > :09:56.interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier
:09:56. > :10:01.he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed
:10:01. > :10:07.Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I
:10:07. > :10:12.think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that
:10:12. > :10:19.Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is
:10:19. > :10:21.Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't
:10:21. > :10:25.sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't
:10:25. > :10:31.ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't
:10:31. > :10:33.industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't
:10:33. > :10:41.what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,
:10:41. > :10:45.Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory
:10:45. > :10:55.regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you
:10:55. > :11:02.don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing
:11:02. > :11:06.the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.
:11:06. > :11:11.Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't
:11:11. > :11:17.work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was
:11:17. > :11:21.going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers
:11:21. > :11:28.now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route
:11:28. > :11:33.and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will
:11:33. > :11:33.and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom
:11:33. > :11:42.of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom
:11:42. > :11:45.fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in
:11:45. > :11:49.that. The big political question going forward is which of the party
:11:49. > :11:53.leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press
:11:53. > :11:59.regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband
:11:59. > :12:04.the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian
:12:04. > :12:12.Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you
:12:12. > :12:16.got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David
:12:16. > :12:30.Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had
:12:30. > :12:33.have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over
:12:33. > :12:38.Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over
:12:38. > :12:45.Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to
:12:45. > :12:51.suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of
:12:51. > :13:00.suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was
:13:00. > :13:01.indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you
:13:01. > :13:06.regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you
:13:06. > :13:11.a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out
:13:11. > :13:17.on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important
:13:17. > :13:21.to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated
:13:21. > :13:28.with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the
:13:28. > :13:37.Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If