:00:38. > :00:51.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:52. > :00:55.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:56. > :01:00.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:01. > :01:05.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:06. > :01:10.capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:11. > :01:15.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:16. > :01:16.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:17. > :01:25.should be covered up. And in the North West: No planes,
:01:26. > :01:26.but trains and automobiles. Can HS2 and road`building transform the
:01:27. > :01:35.region's economy? authority is investigating --
:01:36. > :01:41.investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on
:01:42. > :01:48.its staff. With me as always, the best and the
:01:49. > :01:52.brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt
:01:53. > :01:55.who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they
:01:56. > :02:02.got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to
:02:03. > :02:06.a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home
:02:07. > :02:10.Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the
:02:11. > :02:14.treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met
:02:15. > :02:19.him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was
:02:20. > :02:23.prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.
:02:24. > :02:30.But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.
:02:31. > :02:33.Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.
:02:34. > :02:37.The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there
:02:38. > :02:44.enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the
:02:45. > :02:48.police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad
:02:49. > :02:52.and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for
:02:53. > :02:57.contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to
:02:58. > :03:01.prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what
:03:02. > :03:06.is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try
:03:07. > :03:14.to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from
:03:15. > :03:19.day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I
:03:20. > :03:25.knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.
:03:26. > :03:28.And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as
:03:29. > :03:34.to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not
:03:35. > :03:39.will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the
:03:40. > :03:43.Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can
:03:44. > :03:49.say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under
:03:50. > :03:54.statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This
:03:55. > :03:58.is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy
:03:59. > :04:05.of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will
:04:06. > :04:10.keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung
:04:11. > :04:15.the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like
:04:16. > :04:19.his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the
:04:20. > :04:26.report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in
:04:27. > :04:29.Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as
:04:30. > :04:35.deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len
:04:36. > :04:41.McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out
:04:42. > :04:46.the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a
:04:47. > :04:50.petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the
:04:51. > :04:54.Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come
:04:55. > :04:59.under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance
:05:00. > :05:05.demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of
:05:06. > :05:11.a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy
:05:12. > :05:16.the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems
:05:17. > :05:22.to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in
:05:23. > :05:27.deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him
:05:28. > :05:32.as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of
:05:33. > :05:38.labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend
:05:39. > :05:45.of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any
:05:46. > :05:54.wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len
:05:55. > :06:00.McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is
:06:01. > :06:08.in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion
:06:09. > :06:14.trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved
:06:15. > :06:20.in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing
:06:21. > :06:24.new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in
:06:25. > :06:29.the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had
:06:30. > :06:33.done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in
:06:34. > :06:39.Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says
:06:40. > :06:44.you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to
:06:45. > :06:48.fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you
:06:49. > :06:54.thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the
:06:55. > :07:01.Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then
:07:02. > :07:05.instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and
:07:06. > :07:09.during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened
:07:10. > :07:14.and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I
:07:15. > :07:20.was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent
:07:21. > :07:24.enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing
:07:25. > :07:29.because the people who originally complained changed their evidence
:07:30. > :07:34.and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to
:07:35. > :07:40.rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.
:07:41. > :07:48.We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that
:07:49. > :07:55.all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting
:07:56. > :07:59.the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are
:08:00. > :08:07.allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were
:08:08. > :08:11.put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they
:08:12. > :08:17.doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations
:08:18. > :08:22.that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea
:08:23. > :08:27.that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families
:08:28. > :08:36.has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They
:08:37. > :08:41.clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved
:08:42. > :08:47.in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.
:08:48. > :08:51.Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they
:08:52. > :08:59.are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position
:09:00. > :09:07.is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw
:09:08. > :09:15.their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his
:09:16. > :09:19.family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full
:09:20. > :09:26.weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to
:09:27. > :09:33.Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an
:09:34. > :09:37.independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:09:38. > :09:44.office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,
:09:45. > :09:48.the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks
:09:49. > :09:56.for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since
:09:57. > :10:05.when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to
:10:06. > :10:13.the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and
:10:14. > :10:16.it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making
:10:17. > :10:23.decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift
:10:24. > :10:32.back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent
:10:33. > :10:36.protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was
:10:37. > :10:42.not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling
:10:43. > :10:51.everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had
:10:52. > :10:58.loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to
:10:59. > :11:05.join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the
:11:06. > :11:11.Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going
:11:12. > :11:15.to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were
:11:16. > :11:22.loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the
:11:23. > :11:28.Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have
:11:29. > :11:33.used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at
:11:34. > :11:39.people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to
:11:40. > :11:46.look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an
:11:47. > :11:49.absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the
:11:50. > :11:57.21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the
:11:58. > :12:01.wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever
:12:02. > :12:10.it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk
:12:11. > :12:19.constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your
:12:20. > :12:25.opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con
:12:26. > :12:32.trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your
:12:33. > :12:37.legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of
:12:38. > :12:42.trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband
:12:43. > :12:46.wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way
:12:47. > :12:52.ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company
:12:53. > :12:57.started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,
:12:58. > :13:03.that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called
:13:04. > :13:08.INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring
:13:09. > :13:15.Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to
:13:16. > :13:23.a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who
:13:24. > :13:28.says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it
:13:29. > :13:34.in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make
:13:35. > :13:37.that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You
:13:38. > :13:44.instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what
:13:45. > :13:50.Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the
:13:51. > :13:56.petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due
:13:57. > :14:03.introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was
:14:04. > :14:06.being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost
:14:07. > :14:13.Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was
:14:14. > :14:17.saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and
:14:18. > :14:25.humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len
:14:26. > :14:32.McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with
:14:33. > :14:36.INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop
:14:37. > :14:40.stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns
:14:41. > :14:48.and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has
:14:49. > :14:53.condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have
:14:54. > :14:58.you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour
:14:59. > :15:03.Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested
:15:04. > :15:08.in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the
:15:09. > :15:15.requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last
:15:16. > :15:19.Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will
:15:20. > :15:24.continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they
:15:25. > :15:30.are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.
:15:31. > :15:37.You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.
:15:38. > :15:42.We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company
:15:43. > :15:47.to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking
:15:48. > :15:52.unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive
:15:53. > :15:59.industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all
:16:00. > :16:02.Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to
:16:03. > :16:08.implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is
:16:09. > :16:12.what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our
:16:13. > :16:18.members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not
:16:19. > :16:23.be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as
:16:24. > :16:36.disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My
:16:37. > :16:41.membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are
:16:42. > :16:44.executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me
:16:45. > :16:50.standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I
:16:51. > :17:04.will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us
:17:05. > :17:06.by the media. "A country ready to welcome your
:17:07. > :17:09.investment which values your friendship and will never exclude
:17:10. > :17:12.anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The
:17:13. > :17:14.words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which
:17:15. > :17:18.was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm
:17:19. > :17:21.words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a
:17:22. > :17:23.spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the
:17:24. > :17:26.wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of
:17:27. > :17:29.some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the
:17:30. > :17:39.Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.
:17:40. > :17:43.First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east
:17:44. > :17:48.London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,
:17:49. > :17:53.one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it
:17:54. > :17:58.frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the
:17:59. > :18:01.British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,
:18:02. > :18:06.traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate
:18:07. > :18:10.to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one
:18:11. > :18:19.question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to
:18:20. > :18:23.address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront
:18:24. > :18:27.radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of
:18:28. > :18:37.sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not
:18:38. > :18:43.nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young
:18:44. > :18:47.Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using
:18:48. > :18:54.Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this
:18:55. > :19:02.work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has
:19:03. > :19:11.been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public
:19:12. > :19:15.to please people but in private something very different is being
:19:16. > :19:21.said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,
:19:22. > :19:29.it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for
:19:30. > :19:34.radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's
:19:35. > :19:39.faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if
:19:40. > :19:47.rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some
:19:48. > :19:54.sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,
:19:55. > :19:58.and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and
:19:59. > :20:04.it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially
:20:05. > :20:09.when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to
:20:10. > :20:13.talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There
:20:14. > :20:19.is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the
:20:20. > :20:25.one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist
:20:26. > :20:36.perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of
:20:37. > :20:51.minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public
:20:52. > :21:03.places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy
:21:04. > :21:07.of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and
:21:08. > :21:10.that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the
:21:11. > :21:15.preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council
:21:16. > :21:19.of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating
:21:20. > :21:25.sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved
:21:26. > :21:32.predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for
:21:33. > :21:38.some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We
:21:39. > :21:45.need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the
:21:46. > :21:49.normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and
:21:50. > :21:57.chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that
:21:58. > :22:02.actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible
:22:03. > :22:08.with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to
:22:09. > :22:13.women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures
:22:14. > :22:17.of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain
:22:18. > :22:26.itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they
:22:27. > :22:34.are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to
:22:35. > :22:34.are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are
:22:35. > :22:39.experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages
:22:40. > :22:42.what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not
:22:43. > :22:47.being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance
:22:48. > :22:50.rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been
:22:51. > :22:55.found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in
:22:56. > :23:01.this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what
:23:02. > :23:07.are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem
:23:08. > :23:11.of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be
:23:12. > :23:16.exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many
:23:17. > :23:21.Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a
:23:22. > :23:28.big cultural gap will exist between the two.
:23:29. > :23:31.And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq
:23:32. > :23:40.Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the
:23:41. > :23:47.veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible
:23:48. > :23:55.to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory
:23:56. > :23:57.requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting
:23:58. > :24:12.themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst
:24:13. > :24:14.wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life
:24:15. > :24:18.successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red
:24:19. > :24:25.herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim
:24:26. > :24:35.girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point
:24:36. > :24:39.of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the
:24:40. > :24:48.public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones
:24:49. > :24:55.who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a
:24:56. > :25:02.practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour
:25:03. > :25:08.it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women
:25:09. > :25:13.should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the
:25:14. > :25:18.veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is
:25:19. > :25:25.important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free
:25:26. > :25:28.choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their
:25:29. > :25:33.free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it
:25:34. > :25:39.helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away
:25:40. > :25:44.from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad
:25:45. > :25:48.thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim
:25:49. > :25:54.preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim
:25:55. > :26:01.women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim
:26:02. > :26:08.women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being
:26:09. > :26:13.forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and
:26:14. > :26:18.what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,
:26:19. > :26:23.very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is
:26:24. > :26:30.wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other
:26:31. > :26:33.Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider
:26:34. > :26:43.that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any
:26:44. > :26:47.Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an
:26:48. > :26:53.organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not
:26:54. > :26:59.coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by
:27:00. > :27:03.individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that
:27:04. > :27:09.would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would
:27:10. > :27:21.not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires
:27:22. > :27:28.children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you
:27:29. > :27:37.agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have
:27:38. > :27:46.just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a
:27:47. > :27:52.black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on
:27:53. > :28:03.anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.
:28:04. > :28:09.I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think
:28:10. > :28:15.it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would
:28:16. > :28:26.wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some
:28:27. > :28:33.muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the
:28:34. > :28:37.start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I
:28:38. > :28:46.would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic
:28:47. > :28:51.girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the
:28:52. > :28:59.top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.
:29:00. > :29:03.But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those
:29:04. > :29:12.girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I
:29:13. > :29:17.am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.
:29:18. > :29:30.There is a very conservative movement from the continent on
:29:31. > :29:34.Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their
:29:35. > :29:41.website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged
:29:42. > :29:45.to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should
:29:46. > :29:50.not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you
:29:51. > :29:55.think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They
:29:56. > :30:05.are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree
:30:06. > :30:13.with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is
:30:14. > :30:18.what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is
:30:19. > :30:40.quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you
:30:41. > :30:44.agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back
:30:45. > :30:50.to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.
:30:51. > :30:57.This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.
:30:58. > :31:04.Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday
:31:05. > :31:16.mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your
:31:17. > :31:26.counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they
:31:27. > :31:31.have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is
:31:32. > :31:37.advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the
:31:38. > :31:43.Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The
:31:44. > :31:50.Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots
:31:51. > :31:58.of common issues to create a community which positively
:31:59. > :32:05.integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate
:32:06. > :32:08.for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications
:32:09. > :32:17.available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your
:32:18. > :32:26.organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall
:32:27. > :32:36.under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British
:32:37. > :32:42.mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of
:32:43. > :32:48.prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to
:32:49. > :32:54.prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very
:32:55. > :33:02.beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?
:33:03. > :33:12.Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council
:33:13. > :33:17.have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious
:33:18. > :33:24.stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at
:33:25. > :33:41.this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.
:33:42. > :33:53.That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we
:33:54. > :33:58.live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they
:33:59. > :34:04.have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You
:34:05. > :34:11.would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like
:34:12. > :34:18.that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation
:34:19. > :34:22.to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s
:34:23. > :34:29.rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law
:34:30. > :34:38.of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger
:34:39. > :34:45.issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul
:34:46. > :34:56.declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it
:34:57. > :35:05.or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media
:35:06. > :35:11.mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself
:35:12. > :35:19.from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration
:35:20. > :35:28.because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign
:35:29. > :35:34.it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the
:35:35. > :35:44.declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there
:35:45. > :35:51.was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not
:35:52. > :35:55.what was meant by the declaration. When did you decide so is the
:35:56. > :36:05.yourself from the declaration? From day one. We never signed it. The
:36:06. > :36:08.East London Mosque which you are personally closely associated with
:36:09. > :36:20.is the venue for a number of extremist speakers, who espoused
:36:21. > :36:24.extremist positions. In 2009 the mosque posted a video and
:36:25. > :36:30.presentation by somebody described by the UN Security Council as an
:36:31. > :36:34.Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another speaker described Christians and
:36:35. > :36:39.Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad is supporter of the Taliban there.
:36:40. > :36:47.Why do you do nothing to stop extremists like that at this mask
:36:48. > :36:52.with which you are associated with? We do not have anything to do with
:36:53. > :36:58.any rhetoric that condones or supported violence. We issue
:36:59. > :37:03.guidelines and the mosque itself is a registered charity which has its
:37:04. > :37:07.own rules and regulations, but it is a very large mosques and lots of
:37:08. > :37:13.organisations book and come and told their gatherings. We rent out the
:37:14. > :37:25.facilities. You were prepared to speak alongside a man who saluted
:37:26. > :37:31.suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy. Why would you
:37:32. > :37:35.share a platform like that? I did not share a platform like that.
:37:36. > :37:43.Different organisations come and have conferences here. Why did you
:37:44. > :37:52.agree? I did not agree with that. I completely reject that. When you add
:37:53. > :37:58.all this up the attitude to women, the alliance with the most
:37:59. > :38:02.fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the toleration of intolerant views, a
:38:03. > :38:07.willingness for you to be counted among them, why should anybody of
:38:08. > :38:16.goodwill, either a Muslim or a non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good
:38:17. > :38:23.force? It is an organisation which embraces different organisations
:38:24. > :38:27.which are affiliated in the Muslim community. You have taken snippets
:38:28. > :38:33.of certain individual views which are not the views of our affiliates.
:38:34. > :38:38.It would be unfair to represent our view based on those which you have
:38:39. > :38:46.highlighted in this programme. The work that we do is quite clear and
:38:47. > :38:51.is on our website. They are all associated with you, but we will
:38:52. > :38:53.have to leave it there. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:38:54. > :39:10.up: I will be talking to joke Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in
:39:11. > :39:15.the North West... No planes, but trains and
:39:16. > :39:17.automobiles, can High Speed Rail and road`building transform the
:39:18. > :39:23.region's economy? Let's meet the three with tickets. Paul Maynard,
:39:24. > :39:28.Conservative MP for Blackpool North and Cleveleys. Dave Watts, Labour MP
:39:29. > :39:32.for St Helens North and chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party. Gina
:39:33. > :39:38.Dowding, a Lancashire County Council and European Parliament a candidate
:39:39. > :39:43.for the Green party. We start in Lancashire, where this week, bleeps
:39:44. > :39:45.launched an investigation into possible financial irregularities at
:39:46. > :39:51.the County Council. `` police launched. In April, the council
:39:52. > :39:55.awarded One Connect, a joint venture between the council and Beattie a
:39:56. > :40:01.?5 million contract to manage the council's vehicles. The council s
:40:02. > :40:05.Chief Executive Phil Halsall was a director of One Connect. Six days
:40:06. > :40:08.late, Conservative Geoff Driver lost his job as Council Leader following
:40:09. > :40:13.the local elections, and the bow launched an enquiry. Mr Halsall was
:40:14. > :40:18.suspended in August and two weeks ago left his job. Meanwhile, in
:40:19. > :40:22.September, the council informed police about payments of more than
:40:23. > :40:26.?500,000 to David McElhinney, who worked on secondment to BT
:40:27. > :40:32.overseeing the One Connect deal and a similar one in Liverpool. The
:40:33. > :40:38.police have confirmed exactly wish aspect they are looking into. ``
:40:39. > :40:42.wished `` which aspect. Geoff Driver has been busy for an enquiry to get
:40:43. > :40:45.the facts into the open. We were not able to get hold of David
:40:46. > :40:48.McElhinney. Gina, you are a Lancashire County
:40:49. > :40:55.Council. This must have been pretty destabilises. Difficult times for
:40:56. > :41:02.the County Council. Absolutely. It is terrible news. It is depressing.
:41:03. > :41:08.Very concerning for local taxpayers. A bad day for the reputation of
:41:09. > :41:11.local government. What I hope comes out of this is that we get some
:41:12. > :41:15.transparency about what has been going on. I was elected to the
:41:16. > :41:22.council in May and I know nothing about the background. But I think
:41:23. > :41:24.the people of Lancashire are owed an explanation and a full
:41:25. > :41:28.investigation, and it needs to see the light of day, as to what has
:41:29. > :41:34.been going on. What do you think, Dave? I would say that it is
:41:35. > :41:39.important for local government to be transparent. As I understand, there
:41:40. > :41:43.has been gagging clause put on some individuals in this case, that is a
:41:44. > :41:47.bad thing. Never had to introduce any gagging clauses when I was
:41:48. > :41:51.leader and I do not see why any council Chief Executive or leader of
:41:52. > :41:54.the council should allow it in their own council. Paul, you are a
:41:55. > :42:02.Lancashire MP. What do you make of it? The public want to have the most
:42:03. > :42:06.confidence they can in our elected officials, and in public officials
:42:07. > :42:09.as well, and those elected to represent them. If there are any
:42:10. > :42:15.allegations, they have to be considered thoroughly. I welcome the
:42:16. > :42:19.fact that the lease have lodged an enquiry, I hope everyone can be
:42:20. > :42:22.opened, so the public can have the best confidence that things were
:42:23. > :42:28.done properly, and if that is not the case, there will be a price to
:42:29. > :42:33.pay. Do you have debts yourself is Mac I just know that there would not
:42:34. > :42:40.be a police enquiry at the was not something concerning people. Let's
:42:41. > :42:44.let the police investigate and come in with their findings when the time
:42:45. > :42:47.comes. Another week, another report on High Speed Rail. Lodged in
:42:48. > :42:52.Manchester, it is the Government's fifth business case. What could it
:42:53. > :42:57.mean for us? Supporters say it will slash journey
:42:58. > :43:00.times between London and the North West and provide much`needed extra
:43:01. > :43:04.capacity. The first stage from London to Birmingham could be
:43:05. > :43:09.finished by 2026 and seven years later, the line heading North West
:43:10. > :43:13.to Manchester and also linking up with the West Coast Mainline, just
:43:14. > :43:19.south of Wigan, is predicted to open. It will cost ?42.6 billion,
:43:20. > :43:25.but for every pound spent, the Government estimates it will now
:43:26. > :43:30.produce an economic effect of ? .30, down from the original estimate of
:43:31. > :43:36.?2.50. A total fall in revenue of almost ?9 billion. On the basis of
:43:37. > :43:40.those figures, the parliamentary bill was passed by MPs, allowing
:43:41. > :43:44.money to be spent on surveys and buying up land and property. But
:43:45. > :43:48.High Speed Rail is slowly moving forward.
:43:49. > :43:52.A high`speed future, bringing jobs, better connections and the country
:43:53. > :43:58.finally in line with its European neighbours. If Britain decides that
:43:59. > :44:01.High Speed Rail is not for Britain, this is a brave decision, this is
:44:02. > :44:08.saying that Spain, Italy, France, Germany, China, Japan, have got
:44:09. > :44:12.things fundamentally wrong. No`one at the National Rail Conference
:44:13. > :44:15.needed convincing. They told the Government they can deliver the
:44:16. > :44:22.project, probably under budget and earlier than scheduled. All they
:44:23. > :44:27.need is Parliament to say yes. I understand the desire for a speedier
:44:28. > :44:31.building of the line at it is one thing I will be talking to that I
:44:32. > :44:37.will be talking about with David Higgins about. In this new version,
:44:38. > :44:41.they say only HS2 can reach the gap to North and South, and satisfy the
:44:42. > :44:46.growth in passenger numbers. Without it, they said Owens of pounds will
:44:47. > :44:52.be spent and it will be 14 years of weekend closures. The city leaders
:44:53. > :44:55.in the North West say it kick`start regeneration objects like this one,
:44:56. > :44:59.Aaron Biggar Delhi. Without it, the economy of the North West could
:45:00. > :45:06.stagnate. A recent study said HS2 could boost the UK economy by ? 5
:45:07. > :45:11.billion. It is not just the big cities benefiting. Wigan could have
:45:12. > :45:16.a potential boost of ?81 million. It also estimated losers, towns not on
:45:17. > :45:21.the route. Lancaster, or to ?5 million. Chester and Ellesmere Port,
:45:22. > :45:24.?29 million. I do not think it is the best way to improve the
:45:25. > :45:31.structure. It is suited to countries in which the cities are a long way
:45:32. > :45:35.apart and the populations are concentrated in those cities. We are
:45:36. > :45:39.not a country like that, we have communities all over the country had
:45:40. > :45:44.many of those are going to lose out in a variety of ways. Concern over
:45:45. > :45:49.the scheme pondered caution from Labour's front bench. The Shadow
:45:50. > :45:54.Chancellor, telling everyone it will not go ahead. By Thursday, the
:45:55. > :45:59.preliminary bill was passed and cross`party consensus return. The
:46:00. > :46:04.whole of the Parliamentary Labour Party is supporting this project and
:46:05. > :46:10.this bill. I am grateful at this date for what appears to be a
:46:11. > :46:12.break`out of political consensus. If the Labour leadership does derail
:46:13. > :46:16.the project over money, they will face a bumpy ride from councils
:46:17. > :46:22.here. Paul, you are a supporter of High
:46:23. > :46:27.Speed Rail. Are you surprised there has not been public `` more public
:46:28. > :46:30.enthusiasm? Agreement there has been a great deal of enthusiasm, most
:46:31. > :46:35.people do want to see an improvement to the existing intercity lines The
:46:36. > :46:40.problem is not about the speed or the time saved, but the capacity
:46:41. > :46:48.issues. Making sure we can get more trains onto the track between the
:46:49. > :46:53.North West and London. The line is full up at the moment and we cannot
:46:54. > :46:59.get the new trains in that we need to expand capacity.
:47:00. > :47:02.But there does not seem to be that groundswell of support, there are
:47:03. > :47:05.still quite a lot of scepticism although people perhaps might quite
:47:06. > :47:12.like it, they are wondering if it is value for my. It is enormous, the
:47:13. > :47:18.amount of money. But we have to look at the cost if we do not go ahead
:47:19. > :47:22.with it. We do not want to see an affluent London floating away and
:47:23. > :47:27.leaving us behind. There is an immense economic output gap to make
:47:28. > :47:30.up with the South of England are part of that is done by improving
:47:31. > :47:35.transport links to generate more from our local economy and improve
:47:36. > :47:37.its within the North as well. Saw more business people are able to
:47:38. > :47:43.come up from London to work here? Exactly, it is also imported we can
:47:44. > :47:48.get from Liverpool to Manchester more speedily, or Manchester to
:47:49. > :47:51.Sheffield. So we cannot just look at HS2 in isolation, we had to look at
:47:52. > :47:58.it alongside things like the Northern Hub. Let's have a look at
:47:59. > :48:03.how much one study says it will cost, compared with elsewhere. In
:48:04. > :48:07.France, High Speed Rail costs ? million per mile to build. In
:48:08. > :48:19.Germany, 22, Spain 34, in the UK, it will cost ?129 million per mile
:48:20. > :48:24.Dave, too expensive? My party does not write a blank cheque. The reason
:48:25. > :48:29.for the high costs is that the Conservative Government has
:48:30. > :48:34.succumbed to backbench pressure and is tunnelling most of this, or a
:48:35. > :48:40.large section of it. My worry is that ?48 billion and counting, by
:48:41. > :48:44.the time we actually get there, there will be no money left to bring
:48:45. > :48:49.the rail system into the North West and beyond. The people behind it say
:48:50. > :48:53.they are clear what the budgets are for both its of the line, and they
:48:54. > :48:57.are on target and on budget and they will stick to that. But they have
:48:58. > :49:02.not build anything yet. If anyone can tell me of a mega steam this
:49:03. > :49:08.size that comes in on time and on price, I will be amazed. I do not
:49:09. > :49:15.believe, the Olympics did not come in on time, well, it came in on
:49:16. > :49:19.time, but not on budget. So you think there are better ways to spend
:49:20. > :49:24.the cash Chew Magna if you want to stimulate the North West, you should
:49:25. > :49:30.look at the East`West rail link That would open up the access to
:49:31. > :49:34.Europe and also the access from Ireland to Liverpool. That would be
:49:35. > :49:37.much better use of resources and would cost a lot less and would have
:49:38. > :49:49.an immediate effect. Where does the Green party stand? We are absolutely
:49:50. > :49:55.against HS2, it does not stack up. It has not been robust Lee assessed
:49:56. > :49:58.`` robustly assessed to meet its objectives and we want to see a
:49:59. > :50:03.rebalance the economy between North and South, but there is no evidence
:50:04. > :50:09.that HS2 will do that. Just explain that side of it. You do not agree
:50:10. > :50:16.with his argument deer `` his argument? We need to be moving
:50:17. > :50:20.towards more localised economies. Just dividing faster trains down to
:50:21. > :50:28.London from Manchester, and already there own figures are saying that
:50:29. > :50:31.for every one person travelling from Manchester to London and back, there
:50:32. > :50:36.are three doing it the other way. So this is clearly about people coming
:50:37. > :50:40.up from London and back. That is not a bad thing if they come to do
:50:41. > :50:45.business here. But what we need is jobs and a good rail infrastructure
:50:46. > :50:49.within the region. That is why they are coming, it is not for tourism.
:50:50. > :50:53.But we need to have our own sustainable economy within the
:50:54. > :50:58.region. We need better rail systems. At the moment, it hits you as long
:50:59. > :51:03.to get from Lancaster to Liverpool as does from Manchester London.
:51:04. > :51:06.Which is why we are not just investing in HS2, but in the
:51:07. > :51:12.Northern Hub, which facilitates greater travel within the North We
:51:13. > :51:15.have electrified rail lines in the region. HS2 is not the only
:51:16. > :51:17.improvement we are seeing from this Government in the North of England.
:51:18. > :51:24.Are you disappointed with the mismanagement of this? Costs have
:51:25. > :51:30.risen and the early figures do not bear relation to what we are now at.
:51:31. > :51:33.Costs have been rising but I and confidence `` but I am confident
:51:34. > :51:39.that we will stick to our budget. If we do not go ahead with it, will we
:51:40. > :51:43.be back here in ten years time, arguing about intercity trains Chew
:51:44. > :51:49.Magna will with these `` intercity trains? The North has to be part of
:51:50. > :51:56.the UK, and it will generate greater economic growth by being part of
:51:57. > :51:58.this. Avenue North West MPs been putting pressure on the Labour
:51:59. > :52:04.leadership to get behind High Speed Rail? Some of them have and some of
:52:05. > :52:09.them have not. Our position is we are not writing a blank cheque. Is
:52:10. > :52:15.the government? It is, it wants to go ahead and did it says it is on
:52:16. > :52:22.budget but what happens if that budget is broken? Is someone going
:52:23. > :52:28.to stop this system midway? That is as far as it will go. I'd like from
:52:29. > :52:32.rail to roads, Lancashire stands to benefit from hundreds of million as
:52:33. > :52:35.of investment over the next decade, under the Preston City Deal.
:52:36. > :52:38.As if that was not enough, people are being asked about a transport
:52:39. > :52:44.master plan for the east of the county. 55 years after the
:52:45. > :52:51.country's first motorway opened in Lancashire, our roads still the way
:52:52. > :53:00.forward? `` our roads. Lancashire has a proud history of
:53:01. > :53:08.road`building. In 1958, Harold Macmillan opened Britain's first
:53:09. > :53:12.motorway, Preston bypass. You were here when the motorway opened, you
:53:13. > :53:17.met the Prime Minister, what did he say? He said hello to me. He said,
:53:18. > :53:24.what do you think about the motorway? I said, it is amazing He
:53:25. > :53:31.said, you will remember this day for the rest of your life. In the years
:53:32. > :53:36.since the motorway opened, there have been plenty more built in this
:53:37. > :53:39.county, but many of Lancashire's roads remain gridlocked, so the
:53:40. > :53:47.solution and the plan for the future is to build more roads. Because of
:53:48. > :53:53.the bypass being built for the den, there will be less traffic, the sign
:53:54. > :53:56.of `` the new city deal has reached ?1 billion for new projects in
:53:57. > :54:01.Preston. Without the infrastructure in place,
:54:02. > :54:04.but cannot get anywhere and it is important, not just to get
:54:05. > :54:09.Lancashire moving but to get Lancashire's economy moving. If not
:54:10. > :54:13.happen overnight but within ten years, this will be a vastly
:54:14. > :54:18.different county. At road`building is not the right priority for
:54:19. > :54:21.everyone. Economic benefit comes from public transport improvement.
:54:22. > :54:24.If the number one priority is roads, we will not be seeing the
:54:25. > :54:28.improvements in the economy. Those cities who invest in public
:54:29. > :54:35.transport are the ones who see the real economic benefits. Wiggo start
:54:36. > :54:40.to get realistic attempts to get people out of their cars. `` if we
:54:41. > :54:44.attempt. People were started see that they have rail that works,
:54:45. > :54:54.buses that work, cycling facilities that work for people. Not just in
:54:55. > :54:56.Preston, where there is new roads, in East Lancashire there is also a
:54:57. > :55:04.transport masterplan in place. Two weeks ago, the Economist said towns
:55:05. > :55:12.like they should be left to die so will this become a road to nowhere?
:55:13. > :55:18.`` towns like Burnley. That view is a lot of hot air,
:55:19. > :55:23.according to those at BCW Engineering, who employ 130 people
:55:24. > :55:30.in Burnley, supplying parts for Jaguar and BAE Systems among others.
:55:31. > :55:36.We have been recognised and we expect the report to be that we do
:55:37. > :55:39.not respect to report to be saying that people should move out of the
:55:40. > :55:44.time. For the supply chain, it is very important that we can reach
:55:45. > :55:51.different suppliers, our customers have better links. So, where will it
:55:52. > :55:56.end? It is time we started looking at what used to happen in the old
:55:57. > :56:03.comics, where they go up in the air as well, to do motorway is! That is
:56:04. > :56:11.one solution they have not thought of! We will have to see. Probably
:56:12. > :56:14.not in my lifetime. For Ann and the rest of my Fisher, we will get to
:56:15. > :56:18.see this latest time to make life easier for drivers and whether it
:56:19. > :56:25.helps to I've the economy. Dave, do we want to see more of
:56:26. > :56:30.that? We need more investment in all of our transport systems, whether it
:56:31. > :56:33.is road, rail or airports. When I was Chairman of economic developer,
:56:34. > :56:38.we built a road which was described as a road to nowhere, but you go
:56:39. > :56:44.there now and you will see thousands of jobs being created. So it can be
:56:45. > :56:47.very good for the local community, but you need to balance these
:56:48. > :56:50.things. I don't think we will ever get people away from their cards in
:56:51. > :56:54.the numbers that some people would like. The worst thing you can have
:56:55. > :56:58.for pollution is congestion, which we are seeing in a lot of roads It
:56:59. > :57:02.seems to me that perhaps this is an area where the needs to be some
:57:03. > :57:08.investment in roads. But not taking it away from rail and other forms of
:57:09. > :57:12.transport. Is this what you would like to see more of? Too much
:57:13. > :57:16.emphasis on roads and not enough on sustainable transport solutions
:57:17. > :57:21.What you get with roads is more traffic. You can free up some road
:57:22. > :57:26.space for the time, then it fills up. The congestion builds up again.
:57:27. > :57:31.It is not a long`term sustainable solution. What we need to do is look
:57:32. > :57:38.at integrated transport systems across our cities and Lancashire. So
:57:39. > :57:44.that smart ticketing, it can make public transport easier, cheaper,
:57:45. > :57:48.more reliable, regular, that is the way to get people out of their cars.
:57:49. > :57:52.What they've is saying is that in the meantime when you bid `` when
:57:53. > :57:57.you build a big role, you can see economic development. What you often
:57:58. > :58:03.see with a new road is within development along that stretch, and
:58:04. > :58:05.it can easily suck out the economic activity in the centres of
:58:06. > :58:09.population, which is where we need them. There is plenty of evidence
:58:10. > :58:14.that roads to not regenerate local economies, they create and develop
:58:15. > :58:17.it, that is not what we want. We need to look at rail investment
:58:18. > :58:27.across the county. But not high speed. What do you think was Mac ``
:58:28. > :58:32.what do you think? Two of the project are actually rail and trams.
:58:33. > :58:35.There is a tramway extension. You cannot get much more sustainable
:58:36. > :58:40.than that. But not all roads are bad, some which are generating
:58:41. > :58:45.congestion, we tried to see if we can reduce that. But not every road
:58:46. > :58:49.project is a bad one. We to remember also that we need to promote
:58:50. > :58:53.economic growth and I am always concerned that the Green party is
:58:54. > :58:58.sometimes a bit antigrowth. I do not state every road is a bad road. No,
:58:59. > :59:02.it is about the type of economic activity. What we seem to be having,
:59:03. > :59:06.the whole debate is about a globalised economy and every thing
:59:07. > :59:09.focused around London. We need more activity within the region, more
:59:10. > :59:13.support for the local economy, and encouraging people to travel less,
:59:14. > :59:18.not pandering to this idea that everyone has to go everywhere
:59:19. > :59:24.Twitter and for longer. `` quicker. I think we need more transport
:59:25. > :59:29.investment than we have had in the past. The reason I am cynical about
:59:30. > :59:34.the high`speed that like about High Speed 2 is it'll suck out lots of
:59:35. > :59:38.money that could be spent on other things. We need to address all these
:59:39. > :59:42.things. We need roads, more airports, rail systems, but as we
:59:43. > :59:46.have seen over the last 30 years, most of the investment in the
:59:47. > :59:53.structure has gone down south, we should have had our fair share.
:59:54. > :59:56.Selling High Speed 2 as an author and scheme is extremely unlikely
:59:57. > :00:00.that the benefits will be derived in the North West and beyond, it is
:00:01. > :00:06.more likely in London. With Mac lets ask Paul about that. It is often the
:00:07. > :00:13.case that the stronger economic region does better initially from
:00:14. > :00:18.HS2, Bible `` what will make a difference is the housing and
:00:19. > :00:21.schools policies, they are able to take advantage of the opportunities
:00:22. > :00:26.that High Speed Rail offers. Looking overseas to Europe, the areas that
:00:27. > :00:30.benefited most had better plans to cope when the time came for the
:00:31. > :00:38.train to open. Time for the rest of the news now, with Mark Edwardson.
:00:39. > :00:41.Birkenhead MP Frank Field has asked the Attorney General to appeal the
:00:42. > :00:45.five`year sentence of a solvable and who kept a tenure old girl as a
:00:46. > :00:48.slave was up Tallat Ashar and her husband were convicted earlier this
:00:49. > :00:52.month. Let me go home, Andy Burnham has
:00:53. > :00:56.written to Barack Obama urging him to take back and deported for Romney
:00:57. > :01:00.claiming he was a US citizen. The party wall was born here, but lived
:01:01. > :01:05.in California for 30 years from the age of nine. `marriage to an
:01:06. > :01:12.American citizen, my daughter is an American citizen.
:01:13. > :01:16.Shutting up shop, the last Remploy factory, in Blackburn, has goes The
:01:17. > :01:20.Government there's its 19 disabled workers will be better off in
:01:21. > :01:23.mainstream industry. Two Merseyside in the departments
:01:24. > :01:27.are getting extra funding this winter. Southport Ormskirk is
:01:28. > :01:32.getting ?4 million, into University Hospital ?1.5 million.
:01:33. > :01:35.The Isle of Man has announced a 20`year ban on scallop dredging
:01:36. > :01:46.along another coast of the stretch `` off the coast, to protect stocks.
:01:47. > :01:52.My thanks to Paul Maynard, Dave Watts and Gina Dowding. Next week, I
:01:53. > :01:55.will be joined by Merseyside valise Commissioner Jane Kennedy as she and
:01:56. > :01:57.the other PCCs prepare to mark a year in office.
:01:58. > :02:09.confident we will deliver that. Thank you for coming, great to see
:02:10. > :02:17.you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's relationship with Unite and other
:02:18. > :02:30.issues all to be discussed in the Week Ahead and we're joined now by
:02:31. > :02:33.the shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. First I would like to get
:02:34. > :02:36.your reaction to the interview I did earlier with the General Secretary
:02:37. > :02:39.of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. Let's look at what he said. This is
:02:40. > :02:44.a trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all of the
:02:45. > :02:48.demands and the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, are you telling me
:02:49. > :02:52.they are not the conservative mouthpiece in the media? They are
:02:53. > :02:58.laying traps for Ed Miliband and he should not fall into them. Though it
:02:59. > :03:04.is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey denies a lot of the allegations put,
:03:05. > :03:10.but let me be clear in an industrial dispute, the use of aggressive or
:03:11. > :03:15.intimidatory tactics by either side is totally unacceptable. Do you
:03:16. > :03:19.think it is wrong for Unite to send its members to the homes of
:03:20. > :03:24.managers? I don't know what happened in that particular case, but I think
:03:25. > :03:28.you should keep people 's families out of these things and if you are
:03:29. > :03:33.doing something that can upset particularly children, that is a bad
:03:34. > :03:39.thing. I know he denied a number of things you put to him. We now know
:03:40. > :03:44.some of the content of Labour 's own report into what happened at Falkirk
:03:45. > :03:48.and they found all sorts of things - forgery, coercion, trickery and even
:03:49. > :04:00.that their own investigation was being thwarted by Unite. What should
:04:01. > :04:10.Labour do next? I have not read the report. We are told that the latest
:04:11. > :04:13.allegations that have been made is something that the police are
:04:14. > :04:24.looking into so that is not something I think would be
:04:25. > :04:28.appropriate for me to comment on. We learned Labour Party members in the
:04:29. > :04:33.Falkirk constituency have complained to the leader of the Scottish party
:04:34. > :04:43.about a lack of action by the Labour Party on what happened in Falkirk. I
:04:44. > :04:47.am not part of the Scottish party and that is news to me. But the
:04:48. > :04:51.police have indicated they are looking at the new information that
:04:52. > :04:54.has come to light. It is a bit like the 1980s and there was an
:04:55. > :04:59.electrifying moment when Neil Kinnock took on the militant
:05:00. > :05:05.tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take
:05:06. > :05:12.on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an
:05:13. > :05:16.electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for
:05:17. > :05:20.seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the
:05:21. > :05:26.disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk
:05:27. > :05:30.categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying
:05:31. > :05:37.to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members.
:05:38. > :05:40.In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had
:05:41. > :05:46.people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is
:05:47. > :05:51.that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from
:05:52. > :05:55.party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced
:05:56. > :06:00.this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we
:06:01. > :06:05.change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 2 th
:06:06. > :06:10.century. The reform of the way in which we connect and our
:06:11. > :06:14.relationship with the union puts us in a good position because we have
:06:15. > :06:25.this relationship between the 3 million working people who ensure
:06:26. > :06:29.our public services function. At Grangemouth INEOS stood up to
:06:30. > :06:35.unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk Labour rolled over to the Unite
:06:36. > :06:43.union. I do not agree with that I'd just explained the reason. I do not
:06:44. > :06:49.think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the
:06:50. > :06:55.basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it
:06:56. > :07:00.after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to
:07:01. > :07:06.send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be
:07:07. > :07:12.secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That
:07:13. > :07:17.constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it.
:07:18. > :07:24.This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do
:07:25. > :07:30.not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an
:07:31. > :07:37.ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory
:07:38. > :07:41.suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union
:07:42. > :07:50.members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the
:07:51. > :07:59.facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made On
:08:00. > :08:04.your point I think it is healthy the Conservatives are looking to recruit
:08:05. > :08:11.trade union members. A lot of their rhetoric is very negative in respect
:08:12. > :08:18.of trade unions. If you look at Unison a third of the members vote
:08:19. > :08:22.Conservative. In Unite union some of their members vote Tory. I think
:08:23. > :08:28.trade unions have a lot to bring to our country. It is one of the things
:08:29. > :08:33.many up and down the country will find very frustrating, a lot of the
:08:34. > :08:37.good work that unions do if it gets tarnished with all the negative
:08:38. > :08:43.stuff you see... Unite are working in partnership with GM and the
:08:44. > :08:48.senior management in Ellesmere Port and the government ensured that we
:08:49. > :08:56.kept that plant open. That gets overlooked by all of this. Do you
:08:57. > :09:01.not think the bolshie behaviour from unions are motivated not by
:09:02. > :09:04.strength, but by weakness. Unite know they cannot paralyse the
:09:05. > :09:10.country in the way their forebears used to be able to do. Their
:09:11. > :09:15.penetration rates in the private sector is 11%. The union movement is
:09:16. > :09:20.weaker than it was before I was born. Some of that truck killers and
:09:21. > :09:25.bad behaviour either death spasms of their movement rather than something
:09:26. > :09:34.that is motivated by the fact they can't paralyse the country. You have
:09:35. > :09:39.two increase the membership. But there is an issue about the public
:09:40. > :09:43.perception of trade unions. It is right they should be a voice of
:09:44. > :09:49.protest and anger and stand up for their members when it is necessary.
:09:50. > :09:55.But people join unions for their aspiration. The unions do a lot so
:09:56. > :09:59.that people can move up in their workplace. That profile needs to
:10:00. > :10:06.come across as strongly as the protest part. I want to move on to
:10:07. > :10:14.business. The head of the CBI has said that Labour's pro-enterprise
:10:15. > :10:19.credentials have suffered a setback. He said that in relation to Ed
:10:20. > :10:23.Miliband's speech. I was on the radio earlier. If you look at the
:10:24. > :10:28.things in the speech, some of that was going to be uncomfortable for
:10:29. > :10:32.some of the countries and they tend to be companies represented by the
:10:33. > :10:38.CBI, like energy companies, like land developers, a lot of the big
:10:39. > :10:46.business lose out from is not doing the corporate tax cut. The energy
:10:47. > :10:50.freeze is going to help over 2. million businesses that have been
:10:51. > :10:55.hit by high energy bills. The business community has said we had
:10:56. > :11:00.to bring the public sector finances back into balance. That is why we
:11:01. > :11:06.decided to switch the money being used to reduce corporation tax and
:11:07. > :11:11.use that to help a much greater variety of businesses by doing a
:11:12. > :11:19.business rate cut. It is all pro enterprise. They also seem to be
:11:20. > :11:25.critical of your new idea of a living wage. They are not critical.
:11:26. > :11:32.It would not be compulsory, but there would be a tax credit if they
:11:33. > :11:37.paid it. It is good for business because if people are earning more
:11:38. > :11:42.than they are more productive. It is good for the employee and good for
:11:43. > :11:50.us as well because it means we are not having to subsidise people to be
:11:51. > :11:57.paid to the extent we have with tax credits and benefits. Everybody
:11:58. > :12:04.benefits from this. We all know after 2009 we need to have bold
:12:05. > :12:12.change. Does Labour paid a living wage? We have got over 20 of our
:12:13. > :12:17.councils signed up to doing so and we have made commitments in respect
:12:18. > :12:27.to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party pay it? I believe so. Would it not
:12:28. > :12:40.be worth checking? Do you get a living wage? Yes, of course I do. I
:12:41. > :12:45.understand we paid a living wage. What does it feel like for Tristram
:12:46. > :12:53.Hunt who has taken over your mantle as Labour's next leader? Is that a
:12:54. > :12:58.relieved or are you angry? He is one of my best friends and at the end of
:12:59. > :13:02.the day if we got obsessed with this soap opera stuff we would never get
:13:03. > :13:11.anything done and we are working together to make sure we have got
:13:12. > :13:17.the right skills in our workforce. That is all for today. The daily
:13:18. > :13:26.politics is on all week. I will be here again next weekend at 12:2 pm
:13:27. > :13:28.after the Remembrance Day service at the Cenotaph. Remember if it is
:13:29. > :13:57.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Planet Earth - it's unique.
:13:58. > :14:02.It has life. To understand why, we're going to
:14:03. > :14:10.build a planet...up there. There were the objects that were
:14:11. > :14:13.making the Earth. We're now weightless.
:14:14. > :14:15.That's how our planet started. Your arms are a little bit long
:14:16. > :14:18.Is that as small as they go? This is like every shopping trip
:14:19. > :14:23.I've ever been on.