:00:38. > :00:46.Good morning, welcome. 2014 is barely under way, and the
:00:47. > :00:50.coalition is fighting over cuts. Nick Legg says Tory plans to balance
:00:51. > :00:54.the books would hit the poorest hardest. He will not say what he
:00:55. > :00:59.will cut. That is the top story. Chris Grayling called for a
:01:00. > :01:03.completely new deal with Europe as he battles will rings from the
:01:04. > :01:08.European Court of Human Rights. He joins me.
:01:09. > :01:09.Labour promises to shift house-building up a gear, but how
:01:10. > :01:17.will they get a And in the North West, can we trust
:01:18. > :01:20.our elections? Also, how fast fashion is hoping to take the
:01:21. > :01:22.economy from rags to riches. But are they spinning us a yarn?
:01:23. > :01:32.be serious. Have cuts left to the service being overstretched?
:01:33. > :01:40.With me for the duration, a top trio of political pundits, Helen Lewis,
:01:41. > :01:48.Jan and Ganesh and Nick Watt. They will be tweeting faster than France
:01:49. > :01:52.or long scoots through Paris. Nick Clegg sticks to his New Year
:01:53. > :01:56.resolution to sock it to the Tories, the is how he described Tory plans
:01:57. > :02:00.for another 12 billion of cuts on welfare after the next election.
:02:01. > :02:05.You cannot say, as the Conservatives are, that we are all in it together
:02:06. > :02:08.and then say that the welfare will not make any additional
:02:09. > :02:12.contributions from their taxes if there is a Conservative government
:02:13. > :02:18.after 2015 in the ongoing effort to balance the books. We are not even
:02:19. > :02:25.going to ask that very wealthy people who have retired who have
:02:26. > :02:28.benefits, paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayers, will make a
:02:29. > :02:34.sacrifice. The Conservatives appear to be saying only the working age
:02:35. > :02:37.pork will be asked to make additional sacrifices to fill the
:02:38. > :02:42.remaining buckle in the public finances.
:02:43. > :02:48.Nick Legg eating up on the Tories a, happens almost every day. I
:02:49. > :02:54.understand it is called aggressive differentiation. Will it work for
:02:55. > :02:59.them? It has not for the past two years. This began around the time of
:03:00. > :03:04.the AV referendum campaign, that is what poisoned the relations between
:03:05. > :03:10.the parties. They have been trying to differentiation since then, they
:03:11. > :03:16.are still at barely 10% in the polls, Nick Clegg's personal ratings
:03:17. > :03:21.are horrendous, so I doubt they will do much before the next election. It
:03:22. > :03:25.is interesting it has been combined with aggressive flirtation with Ed
:03:26. > :03:29.Balls and the Labour Party. There was always going to be some sort of
:03:30. > :03:35.rapprochement between them and the Labour Party, it is in the Labour
:03:36. > :03:38.Party's interests, and it is intent macro's interests, not to be defined
:03:39. > :03:44.as somebody who can only do deals with the centre-right. A colleague
:03:45. > :03:48.of yours, Helen, told me there was more talk behind closed doors in the
:03:49. > :03:54.Labour Party high command, they have to think about winning the election
:03:55. > :03:58.in terms of being the largest party, but not necessarily an overall
:03:59. > :04:01.majority. There is a feeling it was foolish before the last election not
:04:02. > :04:06.to have any thought about what a coalition might be, but the language
:04:07. > :04:11.has changed. Ed Miliband had said, I cannot deal with this man, but now,
:04:12. > :04:17.I have to be prismatic, it is about principles. Even Ed Balls. Nick
:04:18. > :04:22.Clegg had specifically said that Ed Balls was the man in politics that
:04:23. > :04:28.he hated. He said that was just a joke. Of course, it is about
:04:29. > :04:32.principles, not people! When Ed Balls said those nice things about
:04:33. > :04:36.Nick Clegg, he said, I understood the need to get a credible deficit
:04:37. > :04:42.reduction programme, although he said Nick Clegg went too far. The
:04:43. > :04:46.thing about Nick Clegg, he feels liberated, he bears the wounds from
:04:47. > :04:51.the early days of the coalition, and maybe those winds will haunt him all
:04:52. > :04:57.the way to the general election. But he feels liberated, he says, we will
:04:58. > :05:00.be the restraining influence on both the Conservatives, who cannot insure
:05:01. > :05:04.that the recovery is fair, and the Labour Party, that do not have
:05:05. > :05:08.economic red ability. He feels relaxed, and that is why he is
:05:09. > :05:17.attacking the Tories and appearing pretty relaxed. He could also be
:05:18. > :05:20.falling into a trap. The Tories think what they suggesting on
:05:21. > :05:25.welfare cuts is possible. The more he attacks it, the more Tories will
:05:26. > :05:30.say, if you gave us an overall majority, he is the one it. He keeps
:05:31. > :05:34.taking these ostensibly on popular positions and it only makes sense
:05:35. > :05:39.when you talk to them behind the scenes, they are going after a tiny
:05:40. > :05:45.slice of the electorate, 20%, who are open to the idea of voting Lib
:05:46. > :05:52.Dem, and their views are a bit more left liberal than the bulk of the
:05:53. > :05:58.public. There is a perverse logic in them aggressively targeting that
:05:59. > :06:02.section of voters. In the end, ten macro's problem, if you do not like
:06:03. > :06:07.what this coalition has been doing, you will not vote for somebody who
:06:08. > :06:15.was part of it, you will vote for the Labour Party. The Tories are too
:06:16. > :06:18.nasty, Labour are to spendthrift, Lib Dem, a quarter of their vote has
:06:19. > :06:24.gone to Labour, and that is what could hand the largest party to
:06:25. > :06:28.Labour. That small number of voters, soft Tory voters, the problem for
:06:29. > :06:33.the Liberal Democrats is, if you fight, as they did, three general
:06:34. > :06:37.elections to the left of the Labour Party, and at the end of the third,
:06:38. > :06:42.you find yourself in Colour Vision with the Conservatives, you have a
:06:43. > :06:49.problem. Chris Grayling is a busy man, he has
:06:50. > :06:53.had to deal with aid riot at HM Prison Oakwood, barristers on strike
:06:54. > :07:04.and unhappy probation officers taking industrial action.
:07:05. > :07:15.Prison works. It ensures that we are protected from murderers, muggers
:07:16. > :07:23.and rapists. It makes many who are tempted to commit crime think twice.
:07:24. > :07:27.Traditional Tory policy on criminal justice and prisons has been tough
:07:28. > :07:32.talking and tough dealing. Not only have they tended to think what they
:07:33. > :07:37.are offering is right, but have had the feeling, you thinking what they
:07:38. > :07:43.thinking. But nearly two decades after Michael Howard's message, his
:07:44. > :07:46.party, in Colour Vision government, is finding prison has to work like
:07:47. > :07:51.everything else within today's financial realities. The Justice
:07:52. > :07:56.Secretary for two years after the election had previous in this field.
:07:57. > :08:03.Ken Clarke. Early on, he signalled a change of direction. Just binding up
:08:04. > :08:07.more and more people for longer without actively seeking to change
:08:08. > :08:16.them is, in my opinion, what you would expect of Victorian England.
:08:17. > :08:24.The key to keeping people out of prison now, it seems, is giving them
:08:25. > :08:27.in a job, on release. Ironically, Ken Clarke was released from his job
:08:28. > :08:35.15 months ago and replaced by Chris Grayling. But here, within HM Prison
:08:36. > :08:37.Liverpool, Timpson has been working since 2009 with chosen offenders to
:08:38. > :08:42.offer training and the chance of a job. Before you ask, they do not
:08:43. > :08:47.teach them keep cutting in a category B prison. The Academy is
:08:48. > :08:52.deliberately meant to look like a company store, not a prison. It
:08:53. > :08:56.helps. You forget where you are at times, it feels weird, going back to
:08:57. > :09:05.a wing at the end of the day. It is different. A different atmosphere.
:09:06. > :09:08.That is why people like it. Timpson have six academies in prisons,
:09:09. > :09:12.training prisoners inside, and outside they offer jobs to
:09:13. > :09:16.ex-offenders, who make up 8% of their staff. It has been hard work
:09:17. > :09:23.persuading some governors that such cooperation can work. I have seen a
:09:24. > :09:27.dramatic change positively, working with prisoners, particularly in the
:09:28. > :09:34.last five years. They understand now what business's expectation is.
:09:35. > :09:39.Timpson do not just employ offenders, but as one ex-prisoner
:09:40. > :09:43.released in February and now managing his own store says, the
:09:44. > :09:49.point is many others will not employ offenders at all. From what I have
:09:50. > :09:54.experienced, on one hand, you have somebody with a criminal conviction,
:09:55. > :09:56.on the other, somebody who does not have one, so it is a case of
:09:57. > :10:01.favouring those who have a clean record. Anybody with a criminal
:10:02. > :10:07.conviction is passed to one side and overlooked. That, amongst myriad
:10:08. > :10:13.other changes to prison and how we deal with prisoners, is on the desk
:10:14. > :10:16.of the man at the top. Ever since Chris Grayling became Secretary of
:10:17. > :10:20.State for Justice, he has wanted to signal a change of direction of
:10:21. > :10:24.policy, and he is in a hurry to make radical reforms across the board,
:10:25. > :10:28.from size and types of prisons to probation services, reoffending
:10:29. > :10:32.rates, legal aid services, and there has been opposition to that from
:10:33. > :10:36.groups who do not agree with him. But what might actually shackle him
:10:37. > :10:39.is none of that. It is the fact that he is in government with a party
:10:40. > :10:43.that does not always agree with him, he has to abide by the rulings of
:10:44. > :10:49.the European Court of Human Rights, and in those famous words, there is
:10:50. > :10:55.no money left. We would like to go further and faster. I would like him
:10:56. > :10:58.too, but we are where we are. If the Liberal Democrats want to be wiped
:10:59. > :11:03.out at the next election based on what they believe, that is fair
:11:04. > :11:08.enough. We accept there has to be savings, but there are areas where
:11:09. > :11:15.we feel that there is ideological driven policy-making going on, and
:11:16. > :11:21.privatising may not save any money at all, and so does not make any
:11:22. > :11:29.sense. The question is, we'll all of that means some of Chris Grayling's
:11:30. > :11:39.reforms need closer inspection? Chris Grayling joins me now.
:11:40. > :11:47.Welcome. We have a lot to cover. If you get your way, your own personal
:11:48. > :11:49.way, will be next Tory manifesto promise to withdraw from the
:11:50. > :11:57.European Convention of human rights? It will contain a promise
:11:58. > :12:01.for radical changes. We have to curtail the role of the European
:12:02. > :12:07.court here, replace our human rights act from the late 1990s, make our
:12:08. > :12:11.Supreme Court our Supreme Court, they can be no question of decisions
:12:12. > :12:15.over riding it elsewhere, and we have to have a situation where our
:12:16. > :12:21.laws contain a balance of rights and responsibilities. People talk about
:12:22. > :12:25.knowing their rights, but they do not accept they have responsible it
:12:26. > :12:35.is. This is what you said last September, I want to see our Supreme
:12:36. > :12:39.Court being supreme again... That is clear, but let's be honest, the
:12:40. > :12:42.Supreme Court cannot be supreme as long as its decisions can be
:12:43. > :12:48.referred to the European Court in Strasbourg. There is clearly an
:12:49. > :12:53.issue, that was raised recency -- recently. We have been working on a
:12:54. > :12:58.detailed reform plan, we will publish that in the not too distant
:12:59. > :13:01.future. What we will set out is a direction of travel for a new
:13:02. > :13:06.Conservative government that will mean wholesale change in this area.
:13:07. > :13:12.You already tried to reform the European Court, who had this
:13:13. > :13:17.declaration in 2012, do you accept that the reform is off the table?
:13:18. > :13:21.There is still a process of reform, but it is not going fast enough and
:13:22. > :13:23.not delivering the kind of change we need. That is why we will bring
:13:24. > :13:28.forward a package that for the different from that and will set a
:13:29. > :13:32.different direction of travel. We are clear across the coalition, we
:13:33. > :13:38.have a different view from our colleagues. You cannot be half
:13:39. > :13:44.pregnant on this, either our decisions from our Supreme Court are
:13:45. > :13:49.subject to the European Cup or not, in which case, we are not part of
:13:50. > :13:52.the European court. I hope you will see from our proposals we have come
:13:53. > :13:55.up with a sensible strategy that deals with this issue once and for
:13:56. > :14:02.all. Can we be part of the Strasbourg court and yet our Supreme
:14:03. > :14:07.Court be supreme? That is by point, we have to curtail the role of the
:14:08. > :14:11.court in the UK. I am clear that is what we will seek to do. It is what
:14:12. > :14:17.we will do for this country. But how? I am not going to announce the
:14:18. > :14:21.package of policies today, but we will go into the next election with
:14:22. > :14:27.a clear strategy that will curtail the role of the European Court of
:14:28. > :14:32.Human Rights in the UK. The decisions have to be taken in
:14:33. > :14:35.Parliament in this country. Are you sure that you have got your own side
:14:36. > :14:54.on this? Look at what the Attorney General says.
:14:55. > :15:06.I would be asking Strasberg a different question to that. If the
:15:07. > :15:09.best in class, he is saying is enough is enough, actually somebody
:15:10. > :15:14.in Strasberg should be asking if this has gone the way it should have
:15:15. > :15:18.done. I would love to see wholesale reform in the court tomorrow, I'm
:15:19. > :15:23.not sure it is going to happen which is why we are going to the election
:15:24. > :15:28.with a clear plan for this country. Would you want that to be a red line
:15:29. > :15:34.in any coalition agreement? My mission is to win the next election
:15:35. > :15:40.with a majority. But you have to say where your red lines would be. We
:15:41. > :15:45.have been very clear it is an area where we don't agree as parties, but
:15:46. > :15:49.in my view the public in this country are overwhelmingly behind
:15:50. > :15:53.the Conservative party. 95 Conservative MPs have written to the
:15:54. > :15:58.Prime Minister, demanding he gives the House of Commons the authority
:15:59. > :16:02.to veto any aspect of European Union law. Are you one of the people who
:16:03. > :16:07.wanted to sign that letter but you couldn't because you are minister? I
:16:08. > :16:21.haven't been asked to sign the letter. We need a red card system
:16:22. > :16:26.for European law. I'm not convinced my colleagues... I don't think it is
:16:27. > :16:31.realistic to have a situation where one parliament can veto laws across
:16:32. > :16:35.the European Union. I understand the concerns of my colleagues, but when
:16:36. > :16:40.we set out to renegotiate our membership, we have got to deliver
:16:41. > :16:44.renegotiation and deliver a system which is viable, and I'm not
:16:45. > :16:47.convinced we can have a situation where one Parliament can prevent
:16:48. > :16:55.laws across the whole European Union. So you wouldn't have signed
:16:56. > :17:03.this letter? I'm not sure it is the right approach. I support the system
:17:04. > :17:06.I just talked about. Iain Duncan Smith has suggested EU migrants
:17:07. > :17:11.coming to work in this country should have to wait for two years
:17:12. > :17:18.before they qualify for welfare benefits, do you agree? Yes, I think
:17:19. > :17:22.there should be an assumption that before you can move from one country
:17:23. > :17:26.to another, before you can start to take back from that country's social
:17:27. > :17:32.welfare system, you should have made a contribution to it. I spent two
:17:33. > :17:36.and a half years working in Brussels trying to get the European
:17:37. > :17:40.Commission to accept the need for change. There is a groundswell of
:17:41. > :17:45.opinion out there which is behind Iain Duncan Smith in what he is
:17:46. > :17:49.saying. I think we should push for a clear system that says people should
:17:50. > :17:55.be able to move from one country to get a job, but to move to another
:17:56. > :18:02.country to live off the state is not acceptable. You are planning a new
:18:03. > :18:06.2000 capacity mega prison and other smaller presence which will be run
:18:07. > :18:13.by private firms. After what has happened with G4S, why would you do
:18:14. > :18:19.that? No decision has been made about whether it will be public or
:18:20. > :18:27.private. What do you think it will be? I'm not sure yet. There is no
:18:28. > :18:32.clear correlation over public and private prisons and whether there
:18:33. > :18:36.are problems or otherwise. Oakwood is in its early stages, it has had
:18:37. > :18:42.teething problems at the start, but the rate of disturbance there is
:18:43. > :18:48.only typical for an average prison of its category. If you take an
:18:49. > :18:54.example of Parc prison in Wales, a big private run prison, run by G4S,
:18:55. > :18:59.when it was first launched under the last government it had teething
:19:00. > :19:04.problems of the same kind as Oakwood and is now regarded as one of the
:19:05. > :19:09.best performing prisons. Why would you give it to a private company
:19:10. > :19:14.then? We have only just got planning permission for the so we will not be
:19:15. > :19:21.thinking about this for another few years. Some of the companies who run
:19:22. > :19:28.prisons are under investigation with dreadful track records. In the case
:19:29. > :19:31.of G4S, what we have experienced is acceptable and they have not been
:19:32. > :19:35.able to go ahead with a number of contracts they might have otherwise
:19:36. > :19:42.got. They are having to prove to the Government they are fit to win
:19:43. > :19:47.contracts from the Government again. They are having to pay compensation
:19:48. > :19:52.to the Government and the taxpayer. What has happened is unacceptable.
:19:53. > :20:03.So why would you give them a 2000 capacity mega prison? Or anyone like
:20:04. > :20:08.them? It cannot be said that every private company is bad. In addition
:20:09. > :20:12.to problems at Oakwood, you are quite unique now in your position
:20:13. > :20:17.that you have managed to get the barristers out on strike the first
:20:18. > :20:24.time since history began. What happens if the bar refuses to do
:20:25. > :20:30.work at your new rates of legal aid and the courts grind to a halt? I
:20:31. > :20:34.don't believe that will happen. When the barristers came out on strike,
:20:35. > :20:38.three quarters of Crown Courts were operating normally, 95% of
:20:39. > :20:43.magistrates courts were operating normally. We are having to take
:20:44. > :20:48.difficult decisions across government, I have no desire to cut
:20:49. > :20:54.back lately but we are spending over ?2 billion on legal aid at the
:20:55. > :20:59.moment at a time when budgets are becoming tougher. You issued
:21:00. > :21:06.misleading figures about criminal barristers, you said that 25% of
:21:07. > :21:12.them earn over ?100,000 per year but that is their turnover, including
:21:13. > :21:17.VAT. 33% of that money goes on their expenses, they have to pay for their
:21:18. > :21:23.own pensions and insurance. People are not getting wealthy out of doing
:21:24. > :21:29.this work. I don't publish figures, our statisticians do, with caveats
:21:30. > :21:31.in place explaining the situation. Where you have high-cost cases,
:21:32. > :21:37.where we have taken the most difficult decisions, we have tried
:21:38. > :21:46.hard in taking difficult decisions to focus the impact higher up the
:21:47. > :21:53.income scale. But do you accept their take-home pay is not 100,000?
:21:54. > :21:57.I accept they have to take out other costs, although some things like
:21:58. > :22:08.travelling to the court, you and I and everyone else has to pay for
:22:09. > :22:14.travelling to work. That is net of VAT. We have had a variety of
:22:15. > :22:20.figures published, some are and some are not. Let's be clear, the gross
:22:21. > :22:25.figures for fees from legal payments include 20% VAT. On a week when even
:22:26. > :22:35.a cabinet minister can be fitted up by the police, don't we all need
:22:36. > :22:39.well-financed legal aid? There is no chance that as a result
:22:40. > :22:51.well-financed legal aid? There is no changes people will end up in court
:22:52. > :22:54.unable to defend themselves. We have said in exceptional circumstances,
:22:55. > :22:58.if you haven't got any money to pay, we will support you, but there is no
:22:59. > :23:03.question of anyone ended up in court, facing a criminal charge,
:23:04. > :23:09.where they haven't got a lawyer to defend them. Let's look at how so
:23:10. > :23:15.many dangerous criminals have managed to avoid jail. Here are the
:23:16. > :23:24.figures for 2012. Half the people for sexual assault found guilty, not
:23:25. > :23:31.jailed. I thought you were meant to be tough on crime? Those figures
:23:32. > :23:36.predate my time, but since 2010 the number of those people going to jail
:23:37. > :23:41.has been increasing steadily. If you put the figures for 2010 on there,
:23:42. > :23:46.you would see a significant change. We will never be in a position where
:23:47. > :23:51.everybody who commits violence will end up in jail. The courts will
:23:52. > :23:55.often decided to his more appropriate to give a community
:23:56. > :24:00.sentence, but the trend is towards longer sentences and more people
:24:01. > :24:06.going to jail. That maybe but it is even quite hard to get sent to jail
:24:07. > :24:11.if you do these things a lot, again and again. In 2012 one criminal
:24:12. > :24:22.avoided being sent to jail despite having more than 300 offences to his
:24:23. > :24:26.name. 36,000 avoided going to jail despite 15 previous offences. That
:24:27. > :24:32.is why we are taking steps to toughen up the system. Last autumn
:24:33. > :24:37.we scrapped repeat cautions. You could find people getting dozens. As
:24:38. > :24:41.of last autumn, we have scrapped repeat cautions. If you commit the
:24:42. > :24:47.same offence twice within a two-year period you will go to court. You
:24:48. > :24:55.still might end up not going to jail. More and more people are going
:24:56. > :25:01.to jail. I cannot just magic another 34,000 prison places. You haven't
:25:02. > :25:05.got room to put bad people in jail? The courts will take the decisions,
:25:06. > :25:11.and it is for them to take the decisions and not me, that two men
:25:12. > :25:17.in a bar fight do not merit a jail sentence. These figures contain a
:25:18. > :25:23.huge amount of offences from the most minor of offences to the most
:25:24. > :25:27.despicable. Something is wrong if you can commit 300 offences and
:25:28. > :25:32.still not end up in jail. That's right, and we are taking steps so
:25:33. > :25:39.this cannot happen any more. Nick Clegg said this morning you are
:25:40. > :25:48.going to make 12 billion of welfare cuts on the back of this, he is
:25:49. > :25:55.right, isn't he? People on the lowest incomes are often not paying
:25:56. > :26:01.tax at all, the rich... But these cuts will fall disproportionately on
:26:02. > :26:08.average earners, correct? Let's look at the proposal to limit housing
:26:09. > :26:14.benefit for under 25s. Until today, after people have left school or
:26:15. > :26:19.college, the live for a time with their parents. For some, that is not
:26:20. > :26:22.possible and we will have to take that into account, but we have said
:26:23. > :26:27.there is a strong case for saying you will not get housing benefit
:26:28. > :26:31.until you are some years down the road and have properly established
:26:32. > :26:39.yourselves in work. And by definition these people are on lower
:26:40. > :26:44.than average salaries. Give me a case in which those on the higher
:26:45. > :26:49.tax band will contribute to the cuts. We have already put in place
:26:50. > :26:53.tax changes so that the highest tax rate is already higher than it was
:26:54. > :27:02.in every year of the last government. The amount of tax...
:27:03. > :27:07.There is no more expected of the rich. We will clearly look at future
:27:08. > :27:11.policy and work out how best to distribute the tax burden in this
:27:12. > :27:17.country and it is not for me to second-guess George Osborne's future
:27:18. > :27:22.plans, but we need to look at for example housing benefit for the
:27:23. > :27:28.under 25s. Is it right for those who are not working for the state to
:27:29. > :27:33.provide accommodation for them? Thank you for being with us.
:27:34. > :27:35.All three major parties at Westminster agree there's an urgent
:27:36. > :27:38.need to build more homes for Britain's growing population. But
:27:39. > :27:42.how they get built, and where, looks set to become a major battle ground
:27:43. > :27:43.in the run-up to the next general election.
:27:44. > :27:46.Although 16% more house-builds were started in 2012/13 than the previous
:27:47. > :27:54.year, the number actually completed fell by 8% - the lowest level in
:27:55. > :27:56.peacetime since 1920. The Office for National Statistics estimates that
:27:57. > :28:04.between now and 2021 we should expect 220,000 new households to be
:28:05. > :28:06.created every year. At his party's conference last autumn, Ed Miliband
:28:07. > :28:15.promised a Labour government would massively increase house-building. I
:28:16. > :28:20.will have a clear aim but by the end of the parliament, Britain will be
:28:21. > :28:24.building 200,000 homes per year, more than at any time for a
:28:25. > :28:28.generation. That is how we make Britain better than this. The Labour
:28:29. > :28:31.leader also says he'd give urban councils a "right to grow" so rural
:28:32. > :28:36.neighbours can't block expansion and force developers with unused land to
:28:37. > :28:38.use it or lose it. The Government has been pursuing its own ideas,
:28:39. > :28:42.including loan guarantees for developers and a new homes bonus to
:28:43. > :28:46.boost new house-building. But David Cameron could have trouble keeping
:28:47. > :28:48.his supporters on side - this week the senior backbencher Nadhim Zahawi
:28:49. > :28:55.criticised planning reforms for causing "physical harm" to the
:28:56. > :28:58.countryside. Nick Clegg meanwhile prefers a radical solution - brand
:28:59. > :29:12.new garden cities in the south east of England. In a speech tomorrow,
:29:13. > :29:15.Labour's shadow housing minister Emma Reynolds will give more details
:29:16. > :29:18.of how Labour would boost house-building, and she joins me
:29:19. > :29:22.now. It is not the politicians to blame, it is the lack of
:29:23. > :29:28.house-builders? We want a vibrant building industry, and at the moment
:29:29. > :29:32.that industry is dominated by big house-builders. I want to see a more
:29:33. > :29:38.diverse and competitive industry, where self build plays a greater
:29:39. > :29:45.role. In France over 60% of new homes are built by self builders,
:29:46. > :29:49.but small builders build more homes as well. 25 years ago they were
:29:50. > :29:54.building two thirds of new homes, now they are not building even a
:29:55. > :29:57.third of new homes. That's because land policies have been so
:29:58. > :30:03.restrictive that it is only the big companies who can afford to buy the
:30:04. > :30:07.land, so little land is being released for house building. I
:30:08. > :30:10.agree, there are some fundamental structural problems with the land
:30:11. > :30:14.market and that is why we have said there doesn't just need to be
:30:15. > :30:19.tinkering around the edges, there needs to be real reforms to make
:30:20. > :30:23.sure that small builders and self build and custom-built have access
:30:24. > :30:28.to land. They are saying they have problems with access to land and
:30:29. > :30:35.finance. At the end of the day it will not be self, small builders who
:30:36. > :30:39.reach your target, it will be big builders. I think it is pretty
:30:40. > :30:47.shameful that in Western Europe the new houses built in the UK are
:30:48. > :30:52.smaller than our neighbours. But isn't not the land problem? France
:30:53. > :31:01.is 2.8 times bigger in land mass and we are and that is not a problem for
:31:02. > :31:05.them. There is a perception we are going to build on the countryside,
:31:06. > :31:15.but not even 10% is on the countryside. There is enough for us
:31:16. > :31:19.to have our golf courses. There is enough other land for us to build on
:31:20. > :31:23.that is not golf courses. The planning minister has said he wants
:31:24. > :31:26.to build our National Parks, I am not suggesting that. The single
:31:27. > :31:32.biggest land border is the public sector. It is not. There are great
:31:33. > :31:38.opportunities for releasing public land, that is why I have been asking
:31:39. > :31:42.the government, they say they are going to release and of public land
:31:43. > :31:46.for tens of thousands of new homes to be built, but they say they are
:31:47. > :31:53.not monitoring how many houses are being built on the site. When your
:31:54. > :31:58.leader says to landowners, housing development owners, either use the
:31:59. > :32:05.land or lose it, in what way will they lose it? Will you confiscated?
:32:06. > :32:10.This is about strengthening the hand of local authorities, and they say
:32:11. > :32:13.to us that in some cases, house-builders are sitting on land.
:32:14. > :32:20.In those cases, we would give the power to local authorities to
:32:21. > :32:25.escalate fees. This would be the compulsory purchase orders, a matter
:32:26. > :32:33.of last resort, and you would hope that by strengthening the hand of
:32:34. > :32:36.local authorities, you could get the house-builders to start building the
:32:37. > :32:42.homes that people want. Would you compulsory purchase it? We would
:32:43. > :32:48.give the local authority as a last resort, after escalating the fees,
:32:49. > :32:51.the possibility and flexible it is to use the compulsory purchase
:32:52. > :32:55.orders to sell the land on to a house builder who wants to build
:32:56. > :32:59.houses that we need. Can you name one report that has come back in
:33:00. > :33:02.recent years that shows that hoarding of land by house-builders
:33:03. > :33:06.is a major problem? The IMF, the Conservative mayor of London and the
:33:07. > :33:10.Local Government Association are telling us that there is a problem
:33:11. > :33:14.with land hoarding. Therefore, we have said, where there is land with
:33:15. > :33:20.planning permission, and if plots are being sat on... Boris Johnson
:33:21. > :33:24.says there are 180,000 plots in London being sat on. We need to make
:33:25. > :33:31.sure the house-builders are building the homes that young families need.
:33:32. > :33:36.They get planning permission and sell it on to the developer. There
:33:37. > :33:41.is a whole degree of complicity, but there is another problem before
:33:42. > :33:45.that. That is around transparency about land options. There is
:33:46. > :33:50.agricultural land that house-builders have land options on,
:33:51. > :33:54.and we do not know where that is. Where there is a need for housing,
:33:55. > :34:00.and the biggest demand is in the south-east of England, that is where
:34:01. > :34:05.many local authorities are most reluctant to do it, will you in
:34:06. > :34:09.central government take powers to force these authorities to give it?
:34:10. > :34:19.We have talked about the right to grow, we were in Stevenage
:34:20. > :34:24.recently. What we have said is we want to strengthen the hand of local
:34:25. > :34:29.authorities like Stevenage so they are not blocked every step of the
:34:30. > :34:33.way. They need 16,000 new homes, but they do not have the land supply.
:34:34. > :34:37.What about the authorities that do not want to do it? They should be
:34:38. > :34:41.forced to sit down and agree with the neighbouring authority. In
:34:42. > :34:45.Stevenage, it is estimated at ?500,000 has been spent on legal
:34:46. > :34:51.fees because North Hertfordshire is blocking Stevenage every step of the
:34:52. > :34:56.way. Michael Lyons says the national interest will have to take President
:34:57. > :35:01.over local interest. Voice cannot mean a veto. The local community in
:35:02. > :35:07.Stevenage is crying out for new homes. Do you agree? There has to be
:35:08. > :35:13.land available for new homes to be built, and in areas like Oxford,
:35:14. > :35:14.Luton and Stevenage... Do you agree with Michael Lyons? The national
:35:15. > :35:36.interest does have to be served, with Michael Lyons? The national
:35:37. > :35:42.will put the five new towns? We have asked him to look at how we can
:35:43. > :35:47.incentivise local authorities to come forward with sites for new
:35:48. > :35:52.towns. You cannot tell us where they are going to be? I cannot. We will
:35:53. > :35:58.have to wait for him. When you look at the historic figures overall, not
:35:59. > :36:01.at the moment, Private Housing building is only just beginning to
:36:02. > :36:04.recover, but it has been pretty steady for a while. The big
:36:05. > :36:09.difference between house-building now and in the past, since Mrs
:36:10. > :36:12.Thatcher came to power a and including the Tony Blair government,
:36:13. > :36:17.we did not build council houses. Almost none. Will the next Labour
:36:18. > :36:24.government embark on a major council has programme? We inherited housing
:36:25. > :36:30.stock back in 1997... This is important. Will the next Labour
:36:31. > :36:34.government embark on a major council has programme? We have called on
:36:35. > :36:38.this government to bring forward investment in social housing. We
:36:39. > :36:43.want to see an investment programme in social housing, I cannot give you
:36:44. > :36:48.the figures now. We are 18 months away from the election. Will the
:36:49. > :36:53.next Labour government embark on a major council house Northern
:36:54. > :36:56.programme? I want to see a council house building programme, because
:36:57. > :37:05.there is a big shortage of council homes. That is a guess? Yes. We got
:37:06. > :37:12.there in the end. -- that is a yes? We will be talking to Patrick homes
:37:13. > :37:15.in the West Midlands in a moment. You are watching the Sunday
:37:16. > :37:17.Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will look at the week
:37:18. > :37:32.ahead with our political panel Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in
:37:33. > :37:36.the North West, how fast fashion's hoping to lead us from rags to
:37:37. > :37:45.riches. But are they spinning us a yarn? The
:37:46. > :37:49.North West was built on the cotton trade. Could millions of pounds of
:37:50. > :37:52.new investment for the textile industry help revive our region's
:37:53. > :37:56.economy? And joining me this week, Luciana
:37:57. > :37:58.Berger, the Labour MP for Liverpool Wavertree, and David Mowat, the
:37:59. > :38:01.Conservative MP for Warrington South.
:38:02. > :38:05.But we start this week with the sad news of the death of Paul Goggins.
:38:06. > :38:07.The Labour MP for Sale East and Wythenshawe passed away this week
:38:08. > :38:10.after collapsing while out running with his son a few days earlier.
:38:11. > :38:17.He'd represented the constituency for almost 17 years and had been a
:38:18. > :38:28.well`respected minister. Luciano, some nice tributes to Mr
:38:29. > :38:31.Goggins in Parliament? Yes, that Parliament was subdued on Wednesday
:38:32. > :38:35.was testament to how well respected Paul Goggins was on all sides of the
:38:36. > :38:39.house. He was a fantastic and wonderful colleague and will be
:38:40. > :38:44.sorely missed. We can listen to some of those tributes now. It is a
:38:45. > :38:48.measure of the man and his ability that he earned the respect, trust
:38:49. > :38:53.and affection of all sides in Northern Ireland.
:38:54. > :38:58.He was liked and admired right across the house and always treated
:38:59. > :39:04.everyone, in whatever circumstances, with respect. Paul's passing is a
:39:05. > :39:11.loss on so many levels. The house has lost a valued colleague. He was
:39:12. > :39:14.a faithful representative. He was an outstanding ambassador for his
:39:15. > :39:20.party. He was a loving husband, father and grandfather.
:39:21. > :39:24.I noticed the speaker and Paul Goggins entered the Commons in the
:39:25. > :39:29.same year. Why was he so popular, David? In the 3.5 years I was in
:39:30. > :39:35.Parliament, he was one of the most decent people I met. He was very
:39:36. > :39:40.conciliatory and try to get me involved in a couple of things he
:39:41. > :39:44.was doing for his constituency. Which party you were injured not
:39:45. > :39:47.matter to him, he was just a thoroughly decent man, and I hope
:39:48. > :39:50.his constituents realise what a great MP they have lost. Thank you
:39:51. > :39:53.very much. This week the electoral commission
:39:54. > :39:57.announced plans to clamp down on electoral fraud, naming a number of
:39:58. > :40:00.areas in the North West as cause for concern. Five of the 16 places the
:40:01. > :40:06.watchdog said were at greater risk are Oldham, Hyndburn, Pendle,
:40:07. > :40:09.Blackburn with Darwen and Burnley. And the watchdog reported concerns
:40:10. > :40:19.that many areas had in common large Asian populations. Our reporter
:40:20. > :40:22.Chris Rider's been to one of them. It is our democratic right to Kastor
:40:23. > :40:27.our vote, but there are concerns about those who try to beat the
:40:28. > :40:30.system. It is something that has affected all communities, but I have
:40:31. > :40:35.spoken in the Commons back in May last year talking about how
:40:36. > :40:38.activists in the Asian community can exploit that community through the
:40:39. > :40:45.postal voting system and through impersonation. 16 local authorities
:40:46. > :40:49.have been named at great risk, and the commission also look at the
:40:50. > :40:53.subject of how electoral fraud I'll `` is more prevalent in Asian
:40:54. > :41:02.communities. It back then, it is a subject being talked about. It will
:41:03. > :41:08.never stop. Should something be done? Yes, it should be stopped.
:41:09. > :41:13.Fraudsters not work. Just because it is an Asian community, it is not
:41:14. > :41:19.mean there is more fraud going on. But one local academic says cultural
:41:20. > :41:23.differences played a part. Systems around kinship networks really mean
:41:24. > :41:29.that there is a great emphasis placed on these kinds of plans about
:41:30. > :41:33.particular people representing a community, and in some cases, that
:41:34. > :41:42.is spilling over into forms of malpractice. Among ex``` its
:41:43. > :41:43.conclusions are recommendations for restrictions on postal voting and
:41:44. > :41:55.producing proof of identity. But one MP says that is not the
:41:56. > :42:00.answer. The biggest problem in East Lancashire has been issues around
:42:01. > :42:06.postal voting and proxy voting. They need to be focused on that. The
:42:07. > :42:09.commission hopes that new measures will be in place for the local and
:42:10. > :42:13.European elections in May. And we're also joined from Blackburn
:42:14. > :42:20.by Mohammed Iqbal, the leader of the Labour group on Pendle Council.
:42:21. > :42:27.Do you think it is fair that Pendle is on this list? I disagree that
:42:28. > :42:31.Pendle is on the list. Over a number of years, a number of political
:42:32. > :42:35.activists from out `` opposition parties have made claims that there
:42:36. > :42:38.is widespread vote rigging in Pendle, but the police have
:42:39. > :42:42.investigated and there has never been any evidence, anyone arrested
:42:43. > :42:45.or anybody charged with any offence related to electoral fraud. So you
:42:46. > :42:51.do not think there is any? I do not say there is none, but I would say
:42:52. > :42:54.there are elements of fraud across the country, but I would say that
:42:55. > :42:59.the police and the local elections offices across the councils have got
:43:00. > :43:04.powers, and if anyone is found to be committing fraud, the police should
:43:05. > :43:09.come down very heavy and sentence those people via the courts to long
:43:10. > :43:12.custodial sentences. I am sure most people would agree with that, but
:43:13. > :43:17.why do you think that voting fraud is more of an issue in communities
:43:18. > :43:23.which are linked to Pakistan and Bangladesh? My experience in Pendle
:43:24. > :43:28.is that there is not an issue specifically within the Pakistani
:43:29. > :43:32.community. More generally, there clearly is in certain parts of the
:43:33. > :43:38.region. Yes, but I can only speak for my area. There was talk of a
:43:39. > :43:46.clan system in place, but in Pendle there is no`one particular client ``
:43:47. > :43:49.no single particular clan. We have small families within Pendle, yet
:43:50. > :43:54.the people that vote for us vote cost of what we do, nothing to do
:43:55. > :43:58.with where we are from. The thing is that people can say, look, the
:43:59. > :44:01.perpetrators are coming from the communities, but by definition, so
:44:02. > :44:06.are the victims as well, and therefore, surely it is right that
:44:07. > :44:16.communities affected really stand up to this and deal with it. I entirely
:44:17. > :44:20.agree with you, Arif. My appeal to people who have been abused through
:44:21. > :44:24.the electoral system is to say, support those communities and those
:44:25. > :44:27.people who are willing to come forward and testify a dense anyone
:44:28. > :44:32.who commits any type of fraud, and this instance it is electoral fraud,
:44:33. > :44:34.but as far as the Labour Party are concerned in Pendle, we are happy to
:44:35. > :44:39.support the police in any action they wish to take whatsoever. Is it
:44:40. > :44:41.appropriate that the electoral commission says that campaigners
:44:42. > :44:47.should no longer be involved with postal ballots? If the electoral
:44:48. > :44:51.commission suggests that, it is down to be political parties both on a
:44:52. > :44:56.local, regional and national level to sit down and iron out any issues.
:44:57. > :44:59.If there is an issue around handling of postal votes or application forms
:45:00. > :45:03.at the doorstep, I am happy to support any actions that the
:45:04. > :45:07.electoral commission wants us to take. Mohammed Iqbal, thank you very
:45:08. > :45:11.much. David, do you agree with what the
:45:12. > :45:15.electoral commission is suggesting here? Have they gone far enough? The
:45:16. > :45:19.electoral commission is an independent body which clearly has
:45:20. > :45:26.severe concerns over the integrity of part of the electoral system.
:45:27. > :45:30.Severe is a strong word. I have read the report. They have concerns,
:45:31. > :45:34.let's not disagree over that, and I think it is right that we look at
:45:35. > :45:38.those concerns seriously and address them. One of the things we're
:45:39. > :45:41.bringing in in this parliament is individual voter registration as
:45:42. > :45:45.opposed to household voter registration, which is one of the
:45:46. > :45:51.issues which has been a problem. Is this going far enough? The honest
:45:52. > :45:57.and say is, I don't know if it is going far enough. There are concerns
:45:58. > :46:00.which need to be addressed and they have put some proposals to
:46:01. > :46:04.government, some of which will be excepted I think, and some will be
:46:05. > :46:12.discussed. What you think, Lucy? `` Luciano? We have to ensure that we
:46:13. > :46:19.aren't not bringing a sledgehammer to a net? The electoral commission
:46:20. > :46:24.is suggesting that we need to bring ID to vote. We know that 20% of
:46:25. > :46:28.people do not have any idea. I want to make sure that the N`Gage as many
:46:29. > :46:32.people in our democracy to vote at a time when voter turnout is
:46:33. > :46:35.especially low. I am concerned about the move towards individual voter
:46:36. > :46:39.registration because the speed at which they are introducing it, we
:46:40. > :46:43.know that 8 million people will come off the register when that happens.
:46:44. > :46:48.So you are opposed to the idea of having to take identification when
:46:49. > :46:54.you go to a ballot booth? Yes. If we apply that uniformly across the
:46:55. > :46:59.board, we might alienate old people who do not have identification. One
:47:00. > :47:02.of the concerns is the speed at which this is happening, and there
:47:03. > :47:05.has not been a discussion about the fact that this is happening so
:47:06. > :47:09.quickly. We appreciate the opportunity to sit down and make
:47:10. > :47:13.sure that the speedster is not mean we exclude a whole swathe of people
:47:14. > :47:18.at the general election. It is disappointing that the Labour Party
:47:19. > :47:23.do not support individual voter registration. That is not what I
:47:24. > :47:27.said. I said the problem was with the speed. Let's move on.
:47:28. > :47:32.Moving on, and have you ever wondered what happened to the three
:47:33. > :47:35.wise men after Christmas? Wel,l let me tell you, they got together to
:47:36. > :47:39.discuss North West politics and make a few predictions. I joined them for
:47:40. > :47:46.a coffee in Manchester to ponder the political year ahead.
:47:47. > :47:50.I am confronted by a dizzying array of political talent. John, set the
:47:51. > :47:56.scene for 2014. What we need to look out for? It is a massive political
:47:57. > :47:58.year in the North West. We have the overriding question about who can
:47:59. > :48:02.claim credit for the economic recovery, but the local questions
:48:03. > :48:06.that need to be Ansett are who is going to win the European and local
:48:07. > :48:09.elections in May, and issues about the Labour Party conference here in
:48:10. > :48:13.September, the final conference for the opposition to set the mood music
:48:14. > :48:18.and win voters over before the general election in May 2015. It
:48:19. > :48:22.could hardly be bigger. So every thing hinges on economic recovery?
:48:23. > :48:27.Yes, and George Osborne has been saying that the Labour Party got it
:48:28. > :48:31.wrong, you cannot cut and still recover the economy, and the Labour
:48:32. > :48:37.Party have to decide what their economic strategy is. At the moment,
:48:38. > :48:40.we don't know what it is. The statistics suggest there might be
:48:41. > :48:44.less of a recovery in the North West than in the rest of the country. We
:48:45. > :48:47.might see a national recovery that is not replicated in the North
:48:48. > :48:51.West. What are the political implications of that? We might go
:48:52. > :48:57.back to a 1980s two nations approach. The Labour Party might
:48:58. > :49:06.create a five term in the North West urges not the case elsewhere. `` a
:49:07. > :49:10.fiefdom. And these are probably the most insulting set of elections this
:49:11. > :49:14.year since the general election. Yes, difficult for Labour to do much
:49:15. > :49:22.better, because they have made huge gains in the last year in local
:49:23. > :49:31.govern. In Europe, you can predict things much more easily. UKIP will
:49:32. > :49:34.get more seats, probably. Keeping it in perspective, they have not got a
:49:35. > :49:37.single council seat in the North West. They will do well in the
:49:38. > :49:44.European elections. After that, they will start to implode. In the
:49:45. > :49:48.Lancashire elections, they would not have ceded control from the
:49:49. > :49:55.Conservatives if it had not been for UKIP. It is not going to happen.
:49:56. > :49:58.Despite the fact that things look before the Lib Dems, there is not
:49:59. > :50:01.much evidence they're going to get worse. They will be hoping to
:50:02. > :50:07.stabilise. It will be a fight between UKIP getting a third seed
:50:08. > :50:16.and whether the incumbent hands`on. What are your predictions for the
:50:17. > :50:19.coming year? Heim `` the high watermark for UKIP will be the
:50:20. > :50:24.European elections, but it is a volatile party and it will implode
:50:25. > :50:27.after that. We will see the BNP lose their seat in the European
:50:28. > :50:31.Parliament. Estimate made to enter the Cabinet for West Midlands. These
:50:32. > :50:35.are performance related cappuccinos, so we will see how you all do at the
:50:36. > :50:38.end of the year. Thank you very much.
:50:39. > :50:44.We meet up for those discussions every week. Let me pick up with you,
:50:45. > :50:48.Luciana. What about what John was saying there that Labour does not
:50:49. > :50:51.have a clear economic strategy? The first thing is that we know the
:50:52. > :50:57.economy is even worse than the Chancellor himself addicted. ``
:50:58. > :51:01.predicted. It is difficult to make promises that this juncture. We are
:51:02. > :51:06.keen to make promises that we can keep. We have to see how bad it is
:51:07. > :51:10.come 2016, and that will come forward in our manifesto. Is a long
:51:11. > :51:15.time to wait. We are keen to know what you have to say! I think it is
:51:16. > :51:23.fair that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls has been clear on some things in
:51:24. > :51:27.policy, and has Ed Balls has said in response to the Chancellor's
:51:28. > :51:30.statement this week, we are keen on bringing down the deficit in a way
:51:31. > :51:35.that means we can help people to improve their standard of living,
:51:36. > :51:38.and that we want to bring down the deficit in a fairway, which means
:51:39. > :51:43.not giving taxpayers a cut when everyone else has to suffer. David,
:51:44. > :51:46.what about what Andrew Russell was warning there, that there is a
:51:47. > :51:51.possibility the regional economy might behind the rest of the
:51:52. > :51:54.country? There is a risk of that. You just asked what was labour's
:51:55. > :52:04.economic strategy, and the answer came that there was none. `` and so
:52:05. > :52:09.came their non`. It is about coming forward with a policy to be
:52:10. > :52:13.credible. The point you made up by the North West being an island of
:52:14. > :52:20.not being doing well, and that is a risk. A lot of effort is being made
:52:21. > :52:24.to fix that. Let me say this, which is that your government was
:52:25. > :52:29.committed to closing the gap. Yes, and we have tried to do it, and the
:52:30. > :52:33.gap has not got any worse. The gap really rose in the last three years
:52:34. > :52:37.of the last government when we had that city boom in the South East and
:52:38. > :52:43.it accelerated away. HS2 is part of how we are trying to do it and there
:52:44. > :52:46.are other things as well. It is important to point out that for the
:52:47. > :52:50.regions outside of London, we have seen investment reduced by 24% and
:52:51. > :52:53.be a feeling that acutely in the North West. It is a shame that we
:52:54. > :52:57.are not having any acknowledgement of that.
:52:58. > :53:00.Well, we've mentioned our economy, and it was built on cotton. But
:53:01. > :53:03.there are more empty mills than working ones these days. Now there
:53:04. > :53:07.are moves in Lancashire and Greater Manchester to invest in textiles
:53:08. > :53:13.once more. So is the plan a super model, or just a fashion fad? Naomi
:53:14. > :53:17.Cornwell's been investigating. The textiles industry shaped the
:53:18. > :53:19.region we live in. 100 years ago, the North West cotton industry
:53:20. > :53:23.produced seven billion square yards of cloth a year. But gradually the
:53:24. > :53:32.foreign markets set up their own factories. Gone are the days when
:53:33. > :53:37.Manchester was referred to as Cottonopolis. Many of the big mills
:53:38. > :53:40.and warehouses have now been converted into homes and offices,
:53:41. > :53:45.but Greater Manchester still has the highest density of textile factories
:53:46. > :53:48.in the country. It's through investment in these that some
:53:49. > :53:50.believe the textiles industry could thrive here once again. Lorna
:53:51. > :53:56.Fitzsimons, the former MP for Rochdale, is running a project to
:53:57. > :53:59.see if it's a realistic growth area. Over ?12 million from the regional
:54:00. > :54:05.growth fund has already been earmarked for investment. Greater
:54:06. > :54:09.Manchester, Lancashire and West Yorkshire are the epicentre of the
:54:10. > :54:14.textile manufacturing industry in the UK. There is significant growth
:54:15. > :54:20.potential both in terms of export and also in terms of retailers
:54:21. > :54:24.needing local capacity to feed the turnaround that is now needed on the
:54:25. > :54:27.High Street. This factory in Salford is one of the businesses involved.
:54:28. > :54:30.It already supplies clothing to several big fashion brands, but is
:54:31. > :54:36.hoping to grow even more if the scheme goes ahead. Equipment wise,
:54:37. > :54:43.we would be more efficient if we could update what is machinery that
:54:44. > :54:46.is 50 years old, and older. And in Middleton, this lingerie company is
:54:47. > :54:53.working side by side with Oldham College, who have set up a fashion
:54:54. > :54:57.academy on site. We are delivering training alongside employers who are
:54:58. > :55:02.modelling out what their needs are in terms of skills over the coming
:55:03. > :55:07.months. They know they need five apprentices here in the foreseeable
:55:08. > :55:12.future, so out of the cohort of 15 new coming year, five are likely to
:55:13. > :55:15.go into a job quite quickly. I am quite interested in doing that and
:55:16. > :55:20.it is really good. It is brilliant to get people into experience. I
:55:21. > :55:23.live over the road, and everything that is here and available to us, it
:55:24. > :55:28.is fantastic. You would never get anything like this at college. These
:55:29. > :55:31.want pressing now... These could be the textile entrepreneurs of the
:55:32. > :55:39.future, hoping to keep the North West a cut above the competition.
:55:40. > :55:42.Luciana, I had to cut you off earlier, but the point you were
:55:43. > :55:45.making is that the government is not doing enough for the North West
:55:46. > :55:52.economy. The Prime Minister said we would see a export led economy, but
:55:53. > :55:54.we have seen our trade deficit increased in recent months. All
:55:55. > :56:01.regions outside of London has seen investment decrease, and that is
:56:02. > :56:06.very worrying. I sincerely hope that the project we have just seen in the
:56:07. > :56:10.film does get the support that we require and it has asked for. The
:56:11. > :56:13.problem has been with the regional growth fund that, since its
:56:14. > :56:17.creation, 50 projects have fallen by the wayside because they have not
:56:18. > :56:21.seen the money come forward. I want to see more from the government on
:56:22. > :56:25.this because it is so vital that we reinvigorate our industries and
:56:26. > :56:30.create jobs that we urgently need. David? Your piece was very
:56:31. > :56:33.encouraging and I think a lot of organisations are seeing the
:56:34. > :56:37.outsourcing of manufacturing to Asia as not being the panacea that they
:56:38. > :56:42.are expecting `` were expecting. We're seeing coming `` we are seeing
:56:43. > :56:46.things coming back into our region, which is good to see. One of the
:56:47. > :56:52.reasons that unemployment now is lower than it was at the general
:56:53. > :56:57.election. I think we will see more of it. I particularly have a bias
:56:58. > :57:03.towards higher value`added manufacturing, particularly I would
:57:04. > :57:06.like to see more pharmaceuticals and organisations like British Aerospace
:57:07. > :57:10.and Bentley, but any Manufacturing is good. What about unemployment?
:57:11. > :57:14.The challenge is that there are certain types of jobs being created.
:57:15. > :57:18.We have seen a large increase in temporary jobs since 2010 and we
:57:19. > :57:22.have a large and of people in part`time work you want to be in
:57:23. > :57:25.full`time work. I want to see the government address things like
:57:26. > :57:34.precarious employment like temporary contracts and part`time work.
:57:35. > :57:42.David? I don't disagree with some of the points that Luciana is making.
:57:43. > :57:50.We need high value`added jobs. I would say that when their party said
:57:51. > :57:58.they would create jobs, that is not what has happened. Their credibility
:57:59. > :58:01.is zilch. Some of those jobs were in education which have been
:58:02. > :58:03.re`clasping the private sector, so there has been some... The
:58:04. > :58:07.credibility is nil. Time for the rest of the week's news
:58:08. > :58:10.now in 60 seconds. You won't be left on the sidings.
:58:11. > :58:13.The infrastructure minister Lord Deighton was in Liverpool telling
:58:14. > :58:16.businesses how they will benefit from High Speed Rail despite no
:58:17. > :58:19.direct link. Salford Council is looking for a new manager, salary
:58:20. > :58:25.?150,000, at the same time as implementing ?25 million of cuts.
:58:26. > :58:35.People with moderate needs like Betty Morris will lose out. How can
:58:36. > :58:36.I come at my age, do my own cleaning?
:58:37. > :58:42.Lancashire's Police Commissioner Clive Grunshaw won't be prosecuted
:58:43. > :58:45.over his expenses. He wrongly claimed some money while a county
:58:46. > :58:47.councillor. But the Crown Prosecution Service said there
:58:48. > :58:50.wasn't enough evidence to prove he was deliberately dishonest.
:58:51. > :58:52.The Lake District could become a World Heritage Site after being
:58:53. > :58:56.nominated by the Government. UNESCO will now decide whether to add it to
:58:57. > :58:58.the list which includes the Egyptian Pyramids, the Taj Mahal and
:58:59. > :59:02.Liverpool's waterfront. And could Fergie be off to a
:59:03. > :59:05.different team of reds? One Labour MP John Mann reckons the former
:59:06. > :59:15.Manchester United manager should lead its general election campaign.
:59:16. > :59:22.David, you are the ministerial aide for the cities minister. A lot of
:59:23. > :59:27.that is about evolving power to the cities. Are we going to see more of
:59:28. > :59:31.that in the region? We will see more power in the cities, but also in the
:59:32. > :59:34.wider region, because one of the issues is that until now a lot has
:59:35. > :59:38.been devolved, more by this government than any previous
:59:39. > :59:41.government, but it has gone to Liverpool and Manchester, and I
:59:42. > :59:46.would like to see more in Cheshire, Lancashire and Cumbria. I would like
:59:47. > :59:53.to see our budget not being cut in the way that it has! The council has
:59:54. > :59:59.made such severe savings and budget cuts that, come 2017, we will have a
:00:00. > :00:02.?17 million deficit on mandatory spend. I think people have no idea
:00:03. > :00:16.what is coming down the line and what the impact of Eric Nichols's
:00:17. > :00:20.decisions will be. `` Eric Pickles. David Knight and Luciana Berger,
:00:21. > :00:25.thank you very will not be revoked. And I wouldn't
:00:26. > :00:35.want it to go. Thank you, back to Andrew.
:00:36. > :00:40.Can David Cameron get his way on EU migration? Will he ever be able to
:00:41. > :00:49.satisfy his backbenchers on Europe? Is Ed Miliband trying to change the
:00:50. > :00:54.tone of PMQ 's? More questions for the week ahead.
:00:55. > :01:00.We are joined by Jacob Rees Mogg from his constituency in Somerset.
:01:01. > :01:07.Welcome to the programme. You one of the 95 Tory backbenchers who signed
:01:08. > :01:10.this letter? Suddenly. Laws should be made by our democratically
:01:11. > :01:18.elected representatives, not from Brussels. How could Europe work with
:01:19. > :01:29.a pick and mix in which each national parliament can decide what
:01:30. > :01:32.Brussels can be in charge of? The European Union is a supernatural
:01:33. > :01:34.body that is there for the cooperation amongst member states to
:01:35. > :01:41.do things that they jointly want to do. It ought not be there to force
:01:42. > :01:44.-- to enforce uniform rules on countries that do not want to
:01:45. > :01:51.participate. It is the vision of Europe that people joined when we
:01:52. > :01:55.signed up to it and came in in 1973. It has accreted powers to itself
:01:56. > :02:00.without having the support of the public of the member states. This is
:02:01. > :02:05.just a way of preparing the ground for you to get out of Europe
:02:06. > :02:09.altogether, isn't it? I do not big so. There is a role for an
:02:10. > :02:12.organisation that does some coordination and that has trade
:02:13. > :02:19.agreements within it, I do not think there is a role for a federal state.
:02:20. > :02:23.Europe seems to be dominating the. I remember your leader telling you not
:02:24. > :02:27.to bang on about Europe, your backbench colleagues seem to have
:02:28. > :02:35.ignored that. Would you like to restrict the flow of EU migrants to
:02:36. > :02:39.come to work in this country? Yes. I think we should have control of our
:02:40. > :02:44.own borders, so we can decide who we want to admit for the whole world.
:02:45. > :02:49.What we have at the moment is a restrictive control of people coming
:02:50. > :02:52.from anywhere other than the EU. There is a big decrease in the
:02:53. > :02:57.number of New Zealanders who came in the last quarter for which figures
:02:58. > :03:02.are available, but a huge increase in people coming from the continent.
:03:03. > :03:05.Does it really make sense to stop our second cousins coming so that we
:03:06. > :03:11.can allow people freely to come from the continent? I do not think so, we
:03:12. > :03:15.need to have domestic control of our borders in the interests of the
:03:16. > :03:18.United Kingdom. There are still lots more people coming from the rest of
:03:19. > :03:27.the world than from the European Union. That has been changing. But
:03:28. > :03:30.there are still more. A lot more. The permanent residence coming from
:03:31. > :03:37.the European Union are extremely high. In the period when the Labour
:03:38. > :03:43.Party was in charge, we had to put 5 million people coming here, of whom
:03:44. > :03:50.about 1 billion were from Poland. -- we had 2.5 million people coming
:03:51. > :03:54.here. We have no control over them. Like the clock behind you, you are
:03:55. > :03:58.behind the times on these figures. I have stopped the clock for your
:03:59. > :04:05.benefit, because it was going to chime otherwise! I thought that
:04:06. > :04:15.might be distracting! Only a Tory backbencher could stop a clock!
:04:16. > :04:20.Helen, when you at this up, it is preparing to get out, is it not? We
:04:21. > :04:24.have had this one bill about a referendum that seems to have tied
:04:25. > :04:31.us up in knots for months on end. If Parliament could scrutinise every
:04:32. > :04:35.piece of EU legislation, we would never get anything else done. It
:04:36. > :04:40.would be incredible. Even Chris Grayling said earlier that you can
:04:41. > :04:46.not have a national veto on anything that the EU proposes. I am surprised
:04:47. > :04:50.that Jacob Rees Mogg is talking about dismantling one of Margaret
:04:51. > :04:56.Thatcher's most important legacies, the creation of the single market,
:04:57. > :05:00.and the person sent there to dream it up under Margaret Thatcher said
:05:01. > :05:03.the only way you can run this sensibly is by not having national
:05:04. > :05:07.vetoes, because if you have that, guess what will happen? The French
:05:08. > :05:12.will impose lots of protectionist measures. It was Margaret
:05:13. > :05:15.Thatcher's idea that national parliaments should never veto. How
:05:16. > :05:27.could you fly in the face of the lady? Even the great lady makes
:05:28. > :05:30.mistakes. Excuse me, Jacob Rees Mogg says even Margaret Thatcher makes
:05:31. > :05:36.mistakes! No wonder the clock has stopped! Even be near divine
:05:37. > :05:45.Margaret made a mistake! But on the single market, it has been used as
:05:46. > :05:48.an excuse for massive origination of domestic affairs. We should be
:05:49. > :05:52.interested in free trade in Europe and allowing people to export and
:05:53. > :05:57.import freely, not to have uniform regulations, as per the single
:05:58. > :06:02.market, because what that allows is thought unelected bureaucrats to
:06:03. > :06:06.determine the regular vision. We want the British people to decide
:06:07. > :06:10.the rules for themselves. If this makes the single market not work,
:06:11. > :06:16.that is not the problem, because we can still have free trade, which is
:06:17. > :06:22.more important. If David Cameron is watching this, I am sure he is, it
:06:23. > :06:27.will be nice for you to come on and give us an interview, he must be
:06:28. > :06:32.worried. He is beginning to think, I am losing control. It is a clever
:06:33. > :06:39.letter, the tone is ingratiating and pleasant, every time, you have stood
:06:40. > :06:43.up to Brussels, you have achieved something, but the content is
:06:44. > :06:47.dramatic. If you want Parliament to have a veto, you want to leave the
:06:48. > :06:52.EU, because the definition is accepting the primacy of European
:06:53. > :06:57.law. The MPs should be clear about that. It is almost a year since the
:06:58. > :07:01.Europe speech in which David Cameron committed to the referendum. The
:07:02. > :07:06.political objective was to put that issue to bed until the next
:07:07. > :07:11.election. It has failed. David Cameron is going to have to pull off
:07:12. > :07:15.a major miracle in any renegotiations to satisfy all of
:07:16. > :07:22.this. Yes, it makes me think how much luckier he has been in
:07:23. > :07:24.coalition with the Liberal Democrats, because there is a bit of
:07:25. > :07:29.the Tory party that is irreconcilable to what he wants to
:07:30. > :07:33.do. The Conservative MPs are making these demands just as David Cameron
:07:34. > :07:38.is seeing the debate goes his way in Europe. Angela Merkel has looked
:07:39. > :07:43.over the cliff and said, do I want the UK out? No, they are a
:07:44. > :07:48.counterbalance to France. France one the UK to leave, but they do not,
:07:49. > :07:54.because they do not want to lose the only realistic military power Tom
:07:55. > :07:59.other than themselves. Just when the debate is going David Cameron's way,
:08:00. > :08:05.Jacob Rees Mogg would take us out. Let me move on to another subject.
:08:06. > :08:10.That is nonsense. The debate is not beginning to go David Cameron's way.
:08:11. > :08:14.We are having before us on Monday a bill about European citizenship and
:08:15. > :08:21.spending British taxpayers money so that Europe can go and say we are
:08:22. > :08:26.all EU citizens, but we signed up to being a part of a multinational
:08:27. > :08:30.organisation. The spin that it is going the way of the leader of a
:08:31. > :08:34.political party is one that has been used before, it was said of John
:08:35. > :08:39.Major, it was untrue then and it is now. It is, for the continuing
:08:40. > :08:49.deeper integration of the European Union. I want to ask a quick
:08:50. > :08:51.question. Chris Grayling said to us that the Tories would devise a way
:08:52. > :08:56.in which the British Supreme Court would be supreme in the proper
:08:57. > :08:59.meaning of that, but we could still be within the European Court of
:09:00. > :09:08.Human Rights. Can that circle be squared? I have no idea, the Lord
:09:09. > :09:12.Chancellor is an able man, and I am sure he is good at squaring circles.
:09:13. > :09:22.I am not worried about whether we remain in the convention or not. PMQ
:09:23. > :09:28.'s, we saw a bit about this week, Paul Gorgons had died, so the house
:09:29. > :09:31.was more subdued, but he wants a more subdued and serious prime
:09:32. > :09:37.ministers questions. Let's remind ourselves what it was like until
:09:38. > :09:41.now. What is clear is that he is
:09:42. > :09:45.floundering around and he has no answer to the Labour Party's energy
:09:46. > :09:49.price freeze. The difference is, John Major is a good man, the Right
:09:50. > :09:56.Honourable gentleman is acting like a conman. Across the medical
:09:57. > :10:00.profession, they say there is a crisis in accident and emergency,
:10:01. > :10:06.and we have a Prime Minister saying, crisis, what crisis? How out of
:10:07. > :10:10.touch can hate the? You do not need it to be Christmas to know when you
:10:11. > :10:18.are sitting next to a turkey. It is not a bad line. Is Ed Miliband
:10:19. > :10:23.trying to change the tone of prime ministers questions? Is he right to
:10:24. > :10:25.do so? The important point is this was a special prime ministers
:10:26. > :10:32.questions, because everybody was really sad and by the death of Paul
:10:33. > :10:37.Goggins and in the country, the legacy of the floods. That was the
:10:38. > :10:42.first question that Ed Miliband asked about, so that cast a pall
:10:43. > :10:46.over proceedings. When it suits him, Ed Miliband would like to take a
:10:47. > :10:50.more statesman-like stance, but will it last? That is how David Cameron
:10:51. > :10:54.started. His first prime ministers questions, he said to Tony Blair, I
:10:55. > :11:01.would like to support you on education, and he did in a vote
:11:02. > :11:04.which meant Tony Blair could see off a naughty operation from Gordon
:11:05. > :11:10.Brown. But it did not last, they are parties with different visions.
:11:11. > :11:17.Jacob Rees Mogg, would you like to see it more subdued? I like a bit of
:11:18. > :11:21.Punch and Judy. You need to have fierce debate and people putting
:11:22. > :11:26.their views passionately, it is excellent. I am not good at it, I
:11:27. > :11:30.sit there quite quietly, but it is great fun, very exciting, and it is
:11:31. > :11:37.the most watched bit of the House of Commons each week. If it got as dull
:11:38. > :11:43.as ditchwater, nobody would pay attention. Three cheers for Punch
:11:44. > :11:47.and Judy. Ed Miliband is going to make a major speech on the economy
:11:48. > :11:51.this week. You can now define the general approach. We had it from
:11:52. > :11:59.Emma Reynolds, we have seen it over energy prices, this market is bust,
:12:00. > :12:04.the market is not working properly, and that will therefore justify
:12:05. > :12:10.substantial government intervention. Intervention which does not
:12:11. > :12:12.necessarily cost money. It is the deletion and reorganising
:12:13. > :12:15.industries. It constitutes an answer to the question which has been
:12:16. > :12:19.hounding him, what is the point of the Labour Party when there is no
:12:20. > :12:23.money left? He says, you do not spend a huge amount fiscally, but
:12:24. > :12:27.you arrange markets to achieve socially just outcomes without
:12:28. > :12:32.expenditure. It is quite serious stance. I am not sure it will
:12:33. > :12:38.survive the rigours of an election campaign, but it is an answer. Is
:12:39. > :12:42.that an approach, to use broken markets, to justify substantial
:12:43. > :12:48.state intervention? Yes, and the other big plank is infrastructure
:12:49. > :12:51.spending. The Lib Dems would not be against capital investment for info
:12:52. > :12:56.structure will stop Emma Reynolds talking about house-building, the
:12:57. > :13:00.idea of pumping money into the economy through infrastructure is
:13:01. > :13:04.something that the Labour Party will look at. Jacob Rees Mogg, you once
:13:05. > :13:10.thought Somerset should have its own time zone, and today, you have
:13:11. > :13:18.delivered on that promise! Live on the Sunday Politics! I try to
:13:19. > :13:22.deliver on my promises! That is all for today, the Daily
:13:23. > :13:27.Politics is on BBC Two every day this week, just before lunch. I
:13:28. > :13:31.aren't back next Sunday here on BBC One at 11am. -- I am back. If it is
:13:32. > :13:38.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.