:00:37. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Nick Clegg says
:00:45. > :00:49.Chris Rennard must apologise. "What for?", say his friends. We'll ask
:00:50. > :00:54.senior Lib Dem minister Danny Alexander whose side he's on.
:00:55. > :00:57.What about the voters? What do they make of the Lib Dems? We hear the
:00:58. > :01:11.views of a Sunday Politics focus group. A donkey.
:01:12. > :01:17.And in the North West: Council cuts, fracking and football ` the MP who
:01:18. > :01:19.says the Premier League's funding for the grass roots game deserves a
:01:20. > :01:21.yellow card. MP. And we'll get the verdict on
:01:22. > :01:24.Portsmouth MP Penny Mordaunt's plunge from the highboard from who
:01:25. > :01:26.else but the Minister for Portsmouth.
:01:27. > :01:32.And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:33. > :01:35.business: and in London, Boris Johnson has pledged to recruit more
:01:36. > :01:46.volunteers. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, who'll be tweeting
:01:47. > :01:49.throughout the programme. First this morning, Nick Clegg is
:01:50. > :01:51.considering a fresh investigation into the behaviour of the party s
:01:52. > :02:00.former chief executive, Lord Rennard. Last week, a lawyer
:02:01. > :02:04.appointed by the party decided that no action could be taken against
:02:05. > :02:06.him, but that women who had accused the Lib Dem peer of inappropriate
:02:07. > :02:17.behaviour "were broadly credible". More than 100 party activists are
:02:18. > :02:20.demanding an apology. Chris Rennard say he's nothing to apologise for
:02:21. > :02:24.and the party whip must be returned to him. Helen, this is not going
:02:25. > :02:30.away. It is turning into a crisis for the Lib Dems? They have only got
:02:31. > :02:36.seven female MPs. There is no female Cabinet Minister. There is a
:02:37. > :02:40.reasonable chance that after the next election there might in no
:02:41. > :02:45.female Liberal Democrat MPs at all. A scandal like this will not
:02:46. > :02:50.encourage women into the party. Have they made a complete mess of it You
:02:51. > :02:56.feel for Nick Clegg, because he launched an utterly rigorous
:02:57. > :03:01.process. He called in a QC. The QC looked at it and decided that the
:03:02. > :03:06.evidence did not meet the burden of proof in a criminal trial. But
:03:07. > :03:10.clearly he felt that the evidence from these women was very credible
:03:11. > :03:18.and serious. He said it was broadly credible. Clearly it was serious.
:03:19. > :03:22.Rennard is being advised by Lord Carlisle, fellow Liberal Democrat
:03:23. > :03:26.peer, who is giving purely legal advice. He is saying it has not
:03:27. > :03:34.reached that edge-mac, so do not apologise. This is a political
:03:35. > :03:39.issue, so the agony continues. Nick Clegg was hoping to keep the party
:03:40. > :03:42.whip withdrawn. But they did not launch an enquiry, the Webster
:03:43. > :03:50.enquired it was not an enquiry, it was a legal opinion. You're right,
:03:51. > :03:53.it was an internal opinion. The Lib Dems distinguished themselves from
:03:54. > :03:58.the other two parties not with policy, but with ethics. They
:03:59. > :04:01.presented themselves as being cleaner, and in possession of more
:04:02. > :04:16.Robert Jay than Labour and the Conservatives. That will be harder
:04:17. > :04:19.to do now. -- more probity. There are a Lib Dem peers that are more
:04:20. > :04:24.relaxed about taking him back and letting him pick up the party whip.
:04:25. > :04:30.That is the problem. There is a generational issue. The older Lib
:04:31. > :04:35.Dems in the House of Lords, the kind of thing, he did not do anything
:04:36. > :04:40.that wrong. The younger activists and those outside the House of
:04:41. > :04:44.Lords, they think it is a pollen. Yes, there is definitely a sort of
:04:45. > :04:49.what you are complaining about sort of thing. That is symptomatic of a
:04:50. > :04:56.cultural difference. The report last year found that they tried to manage
:04:57. > :04:59.the allegations. They did not do what any company would do if there
:05:00. > :05:05.was an allegation of sexual harassment. If there had not in the
:05:06. > :05:09.by-election in Eastleigh, this story may not have got the attention it
:05:10. > :05:14.did. Channel four news are the one that really drove this. Without
:05:15. > :05:19.their reporting, this might not have come out. It is not going to go
:05:20. > :05:29.away, because the issue of whether he gets the party whip back will
:05:30. > :05:32.come week. -- will come up this week.
:05:33. > :05:34.So it's not been a great week for the Liberal Democrats and none of
:05:35. > :05:38.this will help public perceptions of a party already struggling in the
:05:39. > :05:41.polls. In a moment, I'll be talking to the second most senior Liberal
:05:42. > :05:43.Democrat in the land, Danny Alexander. First, Adam Fleming went
:05:44. > :05:47.to Glasgow to find out what voters there made of the party.
:05:48. > :05:49.Let's put the Lib Dems under the microscope in Glasgow. We have
:05:50. > :05:54.recruited some Glaswegians who have voted for them, and some who have
:05:55. > :05:57.not. Hello, John. Let's get started. I will be watching them through the
:05:58. > :06:00.one-way mirror, along with the former Liberal Democrat MP John
:06:01. > :06:03.Barrett. Let's get to the heart of the matter straightaway. If the Lib
:06:04. > :06:07.Dems were a biscuit, what would they be? Tunnock's Teacake. Hard on the
:06:08. > :06:15.outside but soft in the middle. They give in. There is no strength of
:06:16. > :06:23.character there. They just give in to whoever. Ouch. Rich Tea. A bit
:06:24. > :06:30.bland and boring. Melts and crumbles under any sort of heat and pressure.
:06:31. > :06:34.Morrison's own brand of biscuit not top of the range like Marks
:06:35. > :06:44.Spencer or Sainsbury's or Waitrose. A custard cream, sandwiched between
:06:45. > :06:47.David Cameron and the Tories. I think they were concerned that they
:06:48. > :06:50.had one exterior, but something else was really inside. They did not find
:06:51. > :06:59.it too definitive, too clear, too concise, too tasty, too appealing.
:07:00. > :07:05.Which means? It is a worry. If that is their gut reaction, literally,
:07:06. > :07:08.let's find out what is behind it. The context of them being stuck
:07:09. > :07:15.between a rock and a hard place for them as a party, I feel slightly
:07:16. > :07:19.sorry for them. I think people who voted for them will think they are
:07:20. > :07:23.victims as well, being sold down the river by going to the coalition I
:07:24. > :07:28.think the ones, particularly student fees, that was an important one to a
:07:29. > :07:33.lot of people. People felt cheated. I agree. Just going back on that, so
:07:34. > :07:42.publicly and openly, it makes you think, well, what do they stand for?
:07:43. > :07:46.It is trust. Harsh. But our group is feeling quite upbeat about the state
:07:47. > :07:53.of the economy. What have the Lib Dems contributed to that? I am not
:07:54. > :07:59.quite sure. It is George Osborne, a Conservative, who is the Chancellor,
:08:00. > :08:02.so it is mostly down to him. The Liberal Democrats are mostly on
:08:03. > :08:07.their coat tails, if you know what I mean. Have the Lib Dems done
:08:08. > :08:09.anything, anyone? I think the Liberal Democrats were responsible
:08:10. > :08:14.for increasing the tax allowance, ?10,000 for next year. I think they
:08:15. > :08:22.have played a major role in that. Yes. I am glad somebody noticed
:08:23. > :08:25.that. We will have helped everyone who is receiving a salary, and it is
:08:26. > :08:40.interesting that nobody has mentioned that. Now, let's talk
:08:41. > :08:44.about personalities. Everyone knows him, but what about say, this guy?
:08:45. > :08:47.Alexander. Danny, they got it straightaway. I actually quite like
:08:48. > :08:50.him. I think he talks very clearly and it is easy to understand what he
:08:51. > :08:58.says. Fellow redhead Charles Kennedy is popular as well. He is very
:08:59. > :09:04.charismatic and it is through him that I voted Liberal the last few
:09:05. > :09:08.times. But who is this? I recognise him but I cannot tell you his name.
:09:09. > :09:11.That is the party's leader in Scotland, Willie Rennie, and the
:09:12. > :09:14.party's role in the upcoming referendum on independence draws a
:09:15. > :09:21.blank as well. It does not feel like they have featured, it is SNP and
:09:22. > :09:36.Labour and Conservative. They are last in a four horse race. We have
:09:37. > :09:38.been talking about the biggest issue in Scottish politics, independence
:09:39. > :09:42.and the referendum and the Lib Dems are nowhere. They are not mentioned
:09:43. > :09:46.and they seem to think it is all about Labour and the SNP. The Lib
:09:47. > :09:49.Dems are part of the Better Together campaign and we are being drowned
:09:50. > :09:54.out among that. Looking to the future, what messages do voters have
:09:55. > :10:00.for the Lib Dems? Get a backbone. Do not go back on your policies or your
:10:01. > :10:08.word. Be strong and decisive. If you will pardon the expression, man up.
:10:09. > :10:15.DIY, do it yourself. Do not award bankers and other people for
:10:16. > :10:19.failure. Stand up. Be your own person, party. If that focus group
:10:20. > :10:24.represented the whole country, what would the result for the Lib Dems be
:10:25. > :10:29.at 2015 in the election? If they get the message across between now and
:10:30. > :10:33.then, the result could be OK. If they do not get the message across,
:10:34. > :10:40.the result could be disaster. Maybe they would do a lot better on their
:10:41. > :10:43.own. I do not think you are seeing the true Lib Dems because they are
:10:44. > :10:47.in the coalition. They maybe deserve another chance. Crucially for the
:10:48. > :10:51.Lib Dems, that means there is some hope, but there is also plenty of
:10:52. > :11:00.anger, some disappoint, and a bit of bafflement as well.
:11:01. > :11:04.And watching that with me, senior Liberal Democrat and Chief Secretary
:11:05. > :11:08.to the Treasury Danny Alexander Welcome to the programme. One of the
:11:09. > :11:12.things that comes through from the focus group is that if there is any
:11:13. > :11:18.credit around for the economic recovery, it is the Tories that are
:11:19. > :11:22.getting it, and you are not? What can you do about that? The first
:11:23. > :11:26.thing to say is that the economy would not be recovering if it was
:11:27. > :11:32.not for the Liberal Democrats. If it was not for our decision right
:11:33. > :11:35.beginning in 2010 to form a strong, stable coalition government that to
:11:36. > :11:40.deal with the problems, we would still be in the mess that Labour
:11:41. > :11:45.left us with. Why are you not getting the credit? That was one
:11:46. > :11:52.focus group. It was interesting to hear opinions. We have to work very
:11:53. > :11:56.hard to get across the message that the economy would not be recovering
:11:57. > :12:00.without the Liberal Democrats. People would not be seeing the
:12:01. > :12:05.largest income tax cuts for a generation without the Liberal
:12:06. > :12:08.Democrats. The ?10,000 threshold that one of the people referred to
:12:09. > :12:15.is coming into peoples pay packets this year. Lots of people recognise
:12:16. > :12:21.that. There was the one person in the focus groups. This is your
:12:22. > :12:26.measure of success, raising the people at which people pay income
:12:27. > :12:30.tax. But most of the voters do not even give you credit for that. The
:12:31. > :12:35.role that we haven't British politics as a party, is that we are
:12:36. > :12:39.the only party that can be trusted to deliver a fair society and a
:12:40. > :12:44.strong economy. People know they cannot trust the Labour Party. We
:12:45. > :12:53.saw it again from Ed Miliband this morning. You cannot trust the Labour
:12:54. > :12:57.Party with the nation's finances. It may well be your policy, the income
:12:58. > :13:02.tax threshold, but it is the Tories that are getting the credit? I do
:13:03. > :13:06.not think that is true. I have spent lots of time meeting photos and lots
:13:07. > :13:10.of people recognise that if it was not for the Liberal Democrats,
:13:11. > :13:16.people would not be seeing those tax cuts. We are helping disadvantaged
:13:17. > :13:20.children in schools. It is right that we have to work very hard
:13:21. > :13:23.between now and polling day to do several things, to make sure that we
:13:24. > :13:28.secure the recovery, there can be no complacency. The economic recovery
:13:29. > :13:33.is in its early stages and we need to make sure it is sustainable. We
:13:34. > :13:37.need to make sure the benefits of the recovery are shared out people
:13:38. > :13:45.who have made sacrifices, people on low pay, people who have seen their
:13:46. > :13:49.savings are eroded. The Tories have now hijacked another Lib Dem
:13:50. > :13:53.policy, another big hike in the minimum wage. You spoke about the
:13:54. > :13:58.need to make sure that people on low pay benefit from the recovery, a big
:13:59. > :14:02.hike in the minimum wage. Did the Chancellor consulting on this? We
:14:03. > :14:09.have been talking about it for some time. Vince Cable asked the low pay
:14:10. > :14:12.commission for advice on this. Why did Vince Cable not make this
:14:13. > :14:18.announcement, why was it the Chancellor? Let me say a few other
:14:19. > :14:22.things about this. If we are going to secure the recovery, this year we
:14:23. > :14:27.have to make sure that businesses start investing. We have got to get
:14:28. > :14:30.Roddick typically rising. An increase in the minimum wage is
:14:31. > :14:35.something that needs to follow that. We will not do it unless the low pay
:14:36. > :14:40.commission adviser as it is important for the economy at this
:14:41. > :14:44.stage. Did you know the Chancellor was coming out with that statement?
:14:45. > :14:50.I did not know he was going to say something on that particular day. We
:14:51. > :14:54.have worked together on it in the tragedy to see what the economic
:14:55. > :14:58.impact would be, and to emphasise that it is the commission, which has
:14:59. > :15:06.credibility with business, trade unions and government. It must not
:15:07. > :15:10.be a politically motivated increase. So you did not know, and Vince
:15:11. > :15:19.Cable, and it is properly a matter for him as the Business Secretary,
:15:20. > :15:23.he did not make the announcement? I don't think that's right. I don t
:15:24. > :15:29.clear every word I say with him I don't expect him to do the same to
:15:30. > :15:37.me. The Lib Dems have told us before it was the Treasury that was
:15:38. > :15:42.blocking this from happening. We were going to ask the low pay
:15:43. > :15:49.commission to advise us on bringing the minimum wage back up. During the
:15:50. > :15:55.financial crisis, wages have been lower-than-expected but it's also
:15:56. > :16:00.right, we shouldn't act in a hasty way, we should listen to what the
:16:01. > :16:05.commission has to say, and if they don't recommend an increase we have
:16:06. > :16:13.to make sure economic conditions are there to get it right. Not only are
:16:14. > :16:15.the Tories getting credit for that, our Scottish voters group showed
:16:16. > :16:20.that people have still not forgiven you for ratting on tuition fees and
:16:21. > :16:25.that was a broken promise that didn't even apply to the people in
:16:26. > :16:30.Scotland, where there are no tuition fees! Nick Clegg has been very clear
:16:31. > :16:39.about the issues that that brought up. If you look at our manifesto,
:16:40. > :16:44.the University of London said we delivered about 70% of our policies
:16:45. > :16:51.in the manifesto. They haven't forgiven you for the big one. The
:16:52. > :16:59.big promise we made was to cut income tax the millions of people.
:17:00. > :17:05.That is a policy which is putting money back into the pockets of
:17:06. > :17:09.working people. It is only possible because we are delivering our
:17:10. > :17:15.economic plan in government with the Conservatives. Now we have to make
:17:16. > :17:20.sure, through tax cuts, through looking at issues like the minimum
:17:21. > :17:26.wage and other groups who have made sacrifices, make sure that benefit
:17:27. > :17:30.is shared. I am not going to agree to anything which undermines the
:17:31. > :17:35.confidence of businesses to invest in this country over the next 1
:17:36. > :17:42.months. Speaking of Scotland, the Lib Dems, why do they now look
:17:43. > :17:48.largely irrelevant in the battle for the union? Not one of our focus
:17:49. > :17:53.group even knew who your Scottish leader is. I don't accept that. I
:17:54. > :18:03.have spent a lot of time with Alistair Carmichael and others, we
:18:04. > :18:08.are all making the case every day. If Scotland votes to be independent,
:18:09. > :18:14.it will be in a much worse financial position within the European Union.
:18:15. > :18:20.Scotland will be contributing to the rebate for the UK, rather than
:18:21. > :18:23.benefiting from it. It has been a disaster for your Scottish based to
:18:24. > :18:28.have joined a coalition with the Tories. It may have been the right
:18:29. > :18:32.thing to do, you say it is in the national interest, but Scottish Lib
:18:33. > :18:38.Dems did not expect to be in a coalition with the Tories. By the
:18:39. > :18:42.way I think it is also in the national interests and the interests
:18:43. > :18:49.of the people for Scotland, cutting the income tax of Scottish people,
:18:50. > :18:55.stabilising the economy. We are now seeing good growth. But you are in
:18:56. > :19:03.meltdown. I don't accept that. We will see what happens in the 20 5
:19:04. > :19:07.election. I think we have a record to be proud of, we have played a
:19:08. > :19:11.very important role in clearing up the mess Labour made in the
:19:12. > :19:14.economy, of making sure the Coalition government tackles the
:19:15. > :19:20.problems in this country, but does so in a fair way. I think the
:19:21. > :19:25.biggest risks to the economic recovery over the next few years is
:19:26. > :19:29.either a majority Labour government or a majority Conservative
:19:30. > :19:34.government. Labour you cannot trust with the finances, the Tories want
:19:35. > :19:38.us to play chicken with the European Union which would truly be a
:19:39. > :19:43.disaster to investment in this country. You announced this week
:19:44. > :19:47.that if Scotland votes to leave the UK, it would be the British Treasury
:19:48. > :19:53.that would guarantee all British government debt. There wouldn't be a
:19:54. > :19:57.negotiation, but the backstop would be that even if they didn't take
:19:58. > :20:01.anything, we would still guarantee the debt. What was happening in the
:20:02. > :20:06.markets that you needed to calm them down? We were getting quite a few
:20:07. > :20:13.questions from the people we rely on to lend us money. We are still
:20:14. > :20:16.borrowing billions of pounds every month as a country. Those people
:20:17. > :20:30.were asking us to clarify this point. It was becoming a serious
:20:31. > :20:34.concern? It wasn't reflected in the guilty yields. I follow the bond
:20:35. > :20:40.market quite carefully and there was no sign this was having an impact.
:20:41. > :20:45.That's why the right thing to do was to clarify this point now, rather
:20:46. > :20:51.than the concerns being reflected in what you imply, and I think it is a
:20:52. > :20:55.bad idea for Scotland to vote for separation but it would be wrong to
:20:56. > :20:59.allow for the fact that question is on the table to cost taxpayers in
:21:00. > :21:01.the UK more money and higher interest payments simply because
:21:02. > :21:07.Alex Salmond has put that question on the table. That's why I think it
:21:08. > :21:11.was the right thing to do. There were a lot of calls from the focus
:21:12. > :21:17.group that you need to be different. Nick Clegg has embarked on this
:21:18. > :21:22.aggressive differentiation. Where you can be different is the
:21:23. > :21:28.bankers' bonuses. What conceivable reason could there be for anybody at
:21:29. > :21:35.RBS getting a bonus twice in their salary? We have not been approached
:21:36. > :21:43.by RBS in terms of those votes. I would be sceptical about an approach
:21:44. > :21:51.from RBS if it can. It shows what we have presided over as a party in
:21:52. > :21:55.government, massive reductions. . I'm not asking you about that, I'm
:21:56. > :22:04.asking what conceivable case there can be for a bank that has failed to
:22:05. > :22:08.sell its branches even though ordered by the Government, still has
:22:09. > :22:14.38 billion of toxic debt on its balance sheet, I ask again what
:22:15. > :22:20.possible reason should they get twice salary as a bonus? Your right
:22:21. > :22:29.to say RBS is in a very different position to other banks, it is
:22:30. > :22:33.mostly owned by the state. RBS hasn't put a case to us but they
:22:34. > :22:37.might do so I would like to look at what they would say, but I would be
:22:38. > :22:42.sceptical as to whether a case could be made given some of the things you
:22:43. > :22:48.said, but also the fact that it is a bank that has benefited from the
:22:49. > :22:53.taxpayer standing behind it. Now RBS has to focus more on domestic
:22:54. > :22:59.retail. Let me turn to Chris Rennard, ten women have accused him
:23:00. > :23:05.of sexual harassment. He denies every case. Who do you believe? We
:23:06. > :23:15.have been through a process on this as a party. A report has been issued
:23:16. > :23:19.on this. I agree with Alistair Webster on this, he has made clear
:23:20. > :23:23.that while he cannot prove what happened to a criminal standard
:23:24. > :23:27.that there is clear there has been considerable distress and harm
:23:28. > :23:34.caused. I agree with him about that and that's why it is necessary for
:23:35. > :23:41.Chris Rennard to apologise as he has been asked to do. If he refuses to
:23:42. > :23:47.apologise, should he be denied the Lib Dem whip in the Lords? I don't
:23:48. > :23:51.think he should be readmitted to the Liberal Democrat group in the House
:23:52. > :23:58.of Lords until such time as the disciplinary process, including the
:23:59. > :24:01.apology, has been done properly We are very democratic party, it is a
:24:02. > :24:07.matter for our group in the House of Lords in due course to make that
:24:08. > :24:12.judgement. Party HQ has had a lot of complaints from party members about
:24:13. > :24:15.the fact no apology has been made. The appropriate committee would need
:24:16. > :24:20.to look at that and decide what action needs to be taken because
:24:21. > :24:27.these are very serious matters. We as a party have learned a lot, taken
:24:28. > :24:33.a long, hard look at ourselves, to change the way we work. The apology
:24:34. > :24:38.does need to be made. We are told that Lord Newby, the Chief Whip of
:24:39. > :24:41.the Liberal Democrats in the House of Lords, we are told he has shaken
:24:42. > :24:50.hands with Chris Rennard and welcomed him back. That decision has
:24:51. > :24:56.not been taken yet. I think Lord Newby would share my view on this.
:24:57. > :25:03.Have you shaken his hand and welcomed him back? No, I haven't.
:25:04. > :25:10.Does Nick Clegg have the power to deny Chris Rennard as the whip? I am
:25:11. > :25:14.making it clear that a lack of apology is totally unacceptable and
:25:15. > :25:21.therefore we have to take steps if that is not forthcoming. His view
:25:22. > :25:28.and my view is that Lord Rennard should not be readmitted to the
:25:29. > :25:33.House of Lords if that is not forthcoming. In our party, our group
:25:34. > :25:40.in the House of Lords has two in the end take a view for itself. And they
:25:41. > :25:47.can override Nick Clegg's view? I hope that when they look at this...
:25:48. > :25:58.Do they have the power to override Nick Clegg? They have the power to
:25:59. > :26:03.decide who should be the whip. The failure to follow up the simple
:26:04. > :26:09.human demand for an apology for the stress that has been caused is
:26:10. > :26:26.totally unacceptable. Your party is totally down lighted on this --
:26:27. > :26:32.divided on this. Here is what Lord Carlile had to say. A total
:26:33. > :26:37.nonsense, hyperbole. It is a ridiculous statement to make and we
:26:38. > :26:41.have seen Alistair Webster, the QC who did this investigation, comment
:26:42. > :26:46.on that himself this morning. He has followed the process the party laid
:26:47. > :26:50.down in its rules, which sets the standard for the investigation which
:26:51. > :26:54.asked him to report on the evidence he has found, but he also has a duty
:26:55. > :27:02.of confidentiality and responsibility under the data
:27:03. > :27:14.protection legislation as well. Here is what your activists have said in
:27:15. > :27:19.a letter to the Guardian. This shows there are strong opinions, but why
:27:20. > :27:25.should Chris Rennard apologise for something he denies, unproven
:27:26. > :27:29.allegations, on an unpublished report that Chris Rennard has not
:27:30. > :27:33.been allowed to read? He should apologise because he wants to
:27:34. > :27:38.continue to be a member of the Liberal Democrats and this is the
:27:39. > :27:44.recommendation that has been made by the internal disciplinary process.
:27:45. > :27:50.Webster himself said this was not an inquiry, it is an opinion. If Chris
:27:51. > :27:57.Rennard apologises on this basis, he opens himself to civil lawsuits He
:27:58. > :28:01.says he is not going to do it. As a Liberal Democrat you join the party
:28:02. > :28:07.because you believe in its values, you abide by its rules. One of those
:28:08. > :28:15.rules is that we have a process if there are disciplinary allegations.
:28:16. > :28:17.The committee of the party supported Webster's recommendations, one of
:28:18. > :28:23.which was that an apology should be made because he clearly found
:28:24. > :28:28.distress had been caused. Will there now be a proper inquiry? I don't
:28:29. > :28:40.think any of these legalistic things, I don't think he can have it
:28:41. > :28:46.both ways. Will there be a proper inquiry? Alistair Webster did do a
:28:47. > :28:51.proper inquiry. There was a proper report into what happened at the
:28:52. > :28:56.time and we have learned a lot from this is a party, and the most
:28:57. > :29:01.important thing now is that Chris Rennard apologises. You have made
:29:02. > :29:12.that clear. What kind of biscuits are you? Are you a Tunnocks? Soft on
:29:13. > :29:19.the inside? It is good of you to be advertising a Scottish product. We
:29:20. > :29:24.just wondered if you weren't tough enough to take on Ed Balls. Thank
:29:25. > :29:41.you. More than tough enough is the answer to that.
:29:42. > :29:45.Generally governments are a bit rubbish at IT projects. They tend to
:29:46. > :29:48.run way over budget and never quite achieve what they promised. So the
:29:49. > :29:51.revelations of a former spy that the US and British security agencies
:29:52. > :29:53.were in fact astonishingly efficient at eavesdropping on the digital
:29:54. > :29:56.communications of their citizens came as a bit shock. But just how
:29:57. > :29:58.worried should we be about their clandestine activity?
:29:59. > :30:00.In his latest revelation, former US by Edward Snowden has claimed that
:30:01. > :30:05.America's National Security Agency operates a secret database called
:30:06. > :30:10.Dishfire. It collect 200 million mobile phone messages every day from
:30:11. > :30:16.around the world, accessed, he says, why British and American spies. This
:30:17. > :30:20.week, the president has outlined a series of surveillance reforms,
:30:21. > :30:27.including Ning to the storage of the phone call information of millions
:30:28. > :30:37.of Americans, and no Morse -- and no more spying on allies like Angela
:30:38. > :30:39.Merkel. Critics say that the British intelligence agencies have refused
:30:40. > :30:44.to acknowledge even the need for a debate on the issue. The Foreign
:30:45. > :30:52.Secretary William six says that we have a very strong system of checks
:30:53. > :30:55.and balances. -- William Hague. ?? new line Nick Pickles is director of
:30:56. > :30:57.the pressure group Big Brother Watch. The Labour MP Hazel Blears in
:30:58. > :31:08.on Parliament's Intelligence And Security Committee. They're here to
:31:09. > :31:13.go head to head. Welcome to both of you. Hazel
:31:14. > :31:16.Blears, let me come to you first. President Obama has made some major
:31:17. > :31:22.changes as a result of what we have learned that the NSA in America was
:31:23. > :31:26.up to. But British politicians seem to, they are not up for this kind of
:31:27. > :31:31.thing, they are hoping it will go away? It is not going away and that
:31:32. > :31:36.is why my committee, the Intelligence And Security Committee,
:31:37. > :31:40.has decided to launch an enquiry into whether the legal framework is
:31:41. > :31:48.up-to-date. We have had massive technological change. We have had a
:31:49. > :31:53.call for evidence. Some of the sessions will be open so that people
:31:54. > :31:57.can see what the evidence is. Obviously some of the information
:31:58. > :32:01.will have to be classified, but on the committee, there is a real
:32:02. > :32:05.commitment to say, there is a big debate going on, let's see if the
:32:06. > :32:09.system is as Rob asked as we can make it. The big question is
:32:10. > :32:14.oversight and the call for evidence that the committee has issued is not
:32:15. > :32:17.mention oversight. It is ten years since the Foreign Affairs Committee
:32:18. > :32:23.said that the committee should be a fully elected committee chosen by
:32:24. > :32:30.Parliament and not the Prime Minister. It has changed, actually.
:32:31. > :32:41.The Prime Minister nominates people and the house gets to him -- gets to
:32:42. > :32:47.approve. In America, they have a separation of power, the president
:32:48. > :32:51.does not nominate Kennedy. Basically, Hazel Blears, you're an
:32:52. > :32:56.establishment lackey? I do not think so. Most of the people on the
:32:57. > :33:02.committee have some experience of intelligence and these issues. In
:33:03. > :33:06.this country, we have robust scrutiny, compared to some of her
:33:07. > :33:11.European neighbours. We have Parliamentary scrutiny, the
:33:12. > :33:15.interception commissioners, and ministers have to sign the warrants.
:33:16. > :33:20.But there may be room for improvement, which is why we are
:33:21. > :33:24.having the enquiry. Do not forget, President Obama said that the agency
:33:25. > :33:29.should not have the ability to collect data, he wanted to put more
:33:30. > :33:34.safeguards in. That is essential for the work of the agencies. If you
:33:35. > :33:39.cannot see the data, you cannot take the connections and see the
:33:40. > :33:44.patterns. Some people never talk about the threat from terrorism it
:33:45. > :33:48.is all about travesty. There are several thousand people in this
:33:49. > :33:52.country, as we are talking, who are actively planning to do a country
:33:53. > :33:58.harm. When this debate started in the US, the NSA head stood up and
:33:59. > :34:04.said there are 54 plots that have been detected by this capability
:34:05. > :34:11.that has detected and that in bulk. Now the head of the NSA has admitted
:34:12. > :34:16.that the number is actually zero. It is not the intelligence committee in
:34:17. > :34:21.the US that did the work to reduce that number, it was a Judiciary
:34:22. > :34:24.Committee. The fact that we have two different bodies doing this in this
:34:25. > :34:31.country, it means that you do not get the correct view. How can people
:34:32. > :34:36.have confidence in a body when if you go around Europe, for example,
:34:37. > :34:42.or the world, we are not at the end not requiring judges to not sign
:34:43. > :34:46.warrants? I do not accept that the committee failed on that range of
:34:47. > :34:52.issues. You look at the reports on 7/7. Two reports by the committee
:34:53. > :34:56.get to the heart of it. If you look at that terrorist attack on our
:34:57. > :35:01.country, people will say, why did you not have them on the radar? The
:35:02. > :35:07.agencies are between a rock and a hard race. They have got to be
:35:08. > :35:15.subject to oversight, but beanie capability. Did you know about
:35:16. > :35:20.Dishfire? We go to GCHQ on a regular basis and I know about the
:35:21. > :35:27.capabilities that we have got. Some of the names of these programmes, we
:35:28. > :35:32.would not necessarily know. But did you know that GCHQ had the
:35:33. > :35:37.capability to use Dishfire, or to get Dishfire material from the NSA?
:35:38. > :35:42.I knew and my committee knew that we had the capability to collect data,
:35:43. > :35:46.and these days, people do not write letters, they do not use landline
:35:47. > :35:51.telephones, they use the Internet and text in, so it is important that
:35:52. > :35:57.the agencies are able to keep up with that take the logical change.
:35:58. > :36:01.What should happen? The proper legal framework should include, if a
:36:02. > :36:06.company is cooperating, as Google and Facebook do, it should be
:36:07. > :36:12.illegal for GCHQ to hack into them. In the US, Lundberg estimate that
:36:13. > :36:17.this has driven a 35mm and hole in the US economy because people do not
:36:18. > :36:21.trust but there are systems are secure. We need to know that GCHQ
:36:22. > :36:26.are not trying to use a different door into the system, whether by
:36:27. > :36:33.hacking or foreign intelligence We need judicial oversight with judges
:36:34. > :36:38.and not politicians signing off The final 30 seconds to you. As a result
:36:39. > :36:41.of the changes in the Justice and Security act, the committee is
:36:42. > :36:46.accountable to Parliament and not the Prime Minister. Those changes
:36:47. > :36:52.are taking place, and I am up for the debate if we need more change or
:36:53. > :36:56.not. But I want British agencies to have more power to protect the
:36:57. > :37:00.people in this country. Thank you to both of you. It's coming up to
:37:01. > :37:03.11:40. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20
:37:04. > :37:04.minutes, we'll get the verdict of the Minister for Portsmouth on that
:37:05. > :37:32.dive from the Portsmouth MP. Ouch! Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in
:37:33. > :37:36.the North West: Is football scoring an own goal? The MP who says the
:37:37. > :37:47.Premier's League's grassroots funding is missing the target. Well
:37:48. > :37:50.suited international footballers are earning millions of pounds, our
:37:51. > :37:52.children do not have good enough facilities. It is about time that we
:37:53. > :37:55.did. And let's kick off this week by
:37:56. > :37:58.introducing our guests. Ben Wallace is the Conservative MP for Wyre and
:37:59. > :38:02.Preston North. He's ministerial aide to Ken Clarke. And we have the
:38:03. > :38:11.former Defence Minister, Derek Twigg, the Labour MP for Halton
:38:12. > :38:19.Let's start by talking about fracking. Derek, do you favour
:38:20. > :38:24.fracking? Yes, I do. Our party does as well. It has to be part of an
:38:25. > :38:29.overall energy mix. It has to be properly regulated and monitored.
:38:30. > :38:35.More needs to be done before we move too far ahead. If it is regulated
:38:36. > :38:41.and it is part of a mix, you say we should start fracking? We should do
:38:42. > :38:45.but it should be properly monitored. We need to make sure we have all the
:38:46. > :38:49.information we need before it is done safely and take account of its
:38:50. > :38:55.impact on communities, and our overall energy needs. I know you
:38:56. > :39:03.have got issues about how much money comes macro back to communities ``
:39:04. > :39:14.comes back. Is it a good idea? If we can make it safe, if we can protect
:39:15. > :39:18.the environment, it is OK. It is better using gas and coal fire when
:39:19. > :39:23.we generate our energy. Also, the idea that we have two import gas
:39:24. > :39:28.from perhaps regimes with which we do not have a good relationship It
:39:29. > :39:33.is good if we can do it ourselves and enrich the country and the
:39:34. > :39:37.communities. We have strong environmental regulation in place.
:39:38. > :39:40.We must adhere to that. We have strong regulators. Let's deal with
:39:41. > :39:44.that and see what we can do for the people of North Wales.
:39:45. > :39:48.The ongoing debate over fracking ` the process of drilling down into
:39:49. > :39:50.the Earth to extract shale gas. This week the Government announced more
:39:51. > :39:54.sweeteners to persuade local councils to get on board. But the
:39:55. > :39:58.ongoing protest at Barton Moss near Salford is a reminder of how much
:39:59. > :40:07.opposition fracking stirs up ` the policing bill has reached more than
:40:08. > :40:09.?300,000. Euan Doak reports. This week, test drilling began amid
:40:10. > :40:15.more protests from environmental campaigners at Barton Moss. On the
:40:16. > :40:21.same day, the Prime Minister announced he was offering local
:40:22. > :40:28.councils incentives to ignore them. This will help to bring jobs,
:40:29. > :40:31.investment, industry and competitiveness to the north`west. I
:40:32. > :40:36.want to make sure that local people benefit. At least one council leader
:40:37. > :40:38.in the region says with the right health and safety and environmental
:40:39. > :40:43.safeguards in place, the industry should be welcomed. If they can
:40:44. > :40:46.assure us that is the case when the application comes before committee
:40:47. > :40:50.and with the right community payback, I think we have got a
:40:51. > :40:54.forward where we can at least a sensible discussion. The Government
:40:55. > :40:58.has offered a 100% rebate on business rates ` that could be .7m
:40:59. > :41:00.pounds for a typical site. And the industry is offering local
:41:01. > :41:05.communities a ?100,000 grant when fracking begins, plus 1% of its
:41:06. > :41:15.revenues during production. That could be ?10 million per wellhead.
:41:16. > :41:19.But 12 MPs and council leaders from the Northwest said that deal is not
:41:20. > :41:22.good enough. In this letter to the Prime Minister they say successive
:41:23. > :41:29.governments have talked about closing the north, South divide
:41:30. > :41:33.They say shale gas gives an opportunity to put actions to these
:41:34. > :41:40.words. But the deal must be better. Why cant he sits down with the
:41:41. > :41:43.cross`party group and negotiate with them for 10% of revenues to be
:41:44. > :41:49.shared with local communities? Others say the incentives put our
:41:50. > :41:53.councils in an impossible position. The public are already a bit
:41:54. > :41:58.suspicious. They feel the power is on one side and the community does
:41:59. > :42:03.not have much of a say in planning. Here we are, a financial incentive
:42:04. > :42:05.to go ahead. Most authorities, including Salford, our cash
:42:06. > :42:10.strapped. Here is what looks like a bribe to them if they go ahead with
:42:11. > :42:13.shale gas exploration and fracking. When you add in the costs of
:42:14. > :42:17.policing protests like these, then the financial argument about
:42:18. > :42:19.fracking still has a long way to go. And we're also joined now by
:42:20. > :42:30.Councillor Jenny Mein, the Labour leader of Lancashire County Council.
:42:31. > :42:35.Then, you have written this letter to the pro Minister. We have got
:42:36. > :42:40.money that is earmarked for councils, money that is earmarked
:42:41. > :42:45.for communities. Which part should be larger? I think the larger should
:42:46. > :42:51.be predominately councils the county for the region at large. If you look
:42:52. > :42:57.at the United States, where Dakota took $13 billion alone last year. We
:42:58. > :43:06.are talking about sums of money which is valued at ?266 billion from
:43:07. > :43:10.shale. We would like some real sums. The Treasury announcement on Monday
:43:11. > :43:19.was giving away business rate it does not yet have. It amounted to
:43:20. > :43:24.?850,000 per site. We are talking about transformational sums that
:43:25. > :43:28.will help to rebalance Britain. The local government Association has
:43:29. > :43:36.aimed at 10%. I would be willing to negotiate somewhere around there.
:43:37. > :43:42.You might want more than that? If we aim high, we may get the target My
:43:43. > :43:48.constituents and Jenny's constituents, the gas is beneath our
:43:49. > :43:52.feet. We do not want the Treasury taking 62% from beneath our feet and
:43:53. > :43:56.disappearing down south. We want to feel some ownership of this gas and
:43:57. > :43:59.use it for a real solid economic development that would rebalance
:44:00. > :44:05.Britain and transform the north`west. Jenny, let me bring you
:44:06. > :44:09.in. Have we moved on from a question about safety and regulation, to a
:44:10. > :44:16.question of how much money we can get? Absolutely not. Safety is of
:44:17. > :44:22.paramount concern. Lots of issues have to be addressed. We passed a
:44:23. > :44:27.motion last year calling for a far tougher regulation and actually to
:44:28. > :44:32.have industry specific regulations that will monitor what happens. I
:44:33. > :44:35.think in the letter that you have written to the pro Minister, you
:44:36. > :44:40.talk about a second industrial revolution. You talk about the fact
:44:41. > :44:44.that you could be real supporters of this if the Government gives you the
:44:45. > :44:50.right amount of money? We do not talk about whether or not we would
:44:51. > :44:54.be true supporters. As the determinant authority when it comes
:44:55. > :44:58.to planning permission, we have got to stay neutral. The Government is
:44:59. > :45:03.obviously in favour of fracking therefore we need to make sure that
:45:04. > :45:09.if, when that happens, the people of Lancashire get the just benefits
:45:10. > :45:11.from it. I am glad you raised the issue of planning permission.
:45:12. > :45:21.Barbara Keeley thinks it is a conflict of interests? There is not
:45:22. > :45:25.a council in the land that does not need money. That is her point, that
:45:26. > :45:30.councils are the wrong people to be deciding on this because it is a
:45:31. > :45:33.conflict of interest? Any benefits that could accrue from fracking will
:45:34. > :45:40.not come on stream for years to come. At this point, Lancashire
:45:41. > :45:45.County Council has got to save 300 million within four years because of
:45:46. > :45:49.the cuts the Government has taken. If we get any money from fracking,
:45:50. > :45:56.that will not alleviate the problem. Do you buy this idea that this could
:45:57. > :46:01.bridge the North, South divide? I don't think it is going to do that.
:46:02. > :46:08.If communities are impacted, they should get some benefit. That should
:46:09. > :46:15.be fair and significant. This is not a panacea for our energy problems.
:46:16. > :46:22.Even the departments of energy and I add in's on adviser says it will not
:46:23. > :46:28.make any difference to the price. Safety and the wages monitored is of
:46:29. > :46:34.paramount importance. It has to be part of an energy mix. You are in a
:46:35. > :46:39.constituency which has got a lot of heavy industry. Are there quite keen
:46:40. > :46:49.on it? Yes, any loss, one of our biggest chemical companies, they use
:46:50. > :46:53.a similar amount to what a city like Liverpool users. They are working
:46:54. > :46:57.very hard with the Government. So fracking is one possible source
:46:58. > :47:00.of extra funding for our councils in a week when two of our largest
:47:01. > :47:03.announced their latest budget plans. Lancashire County Council is looking
:47:04. > :47:08.to save around ?300 million over the next four years. As a result, 2 500
:47:09. > :47:11.jobs will have to go. Meanwhile Liverpool City Council needs to save
:47:12. > :47:15.?156 million over the next three years. It's cutting so`called
:47:16. > :47:22.discretionary services like leisure centres, cultural events and
:47:23. > :47:24.regeneration projects by 50%. And mandatory services like social care,
:47:25. > :47:36.environmental health and bin collections are being cut by a
:47:37. > :47:41.quarter. Jenny, let's go back to you on this
:47:42. > :47:47.one. How much will services be damaged as a result of these cuts?
:47:48. > :47:52.Let's be honest, I didn't come into politics to take ?300 million out of
:47:53. > :47:57.our budget. That has been forced upon us by government cuts and the
:47:58. > :48:02.pressures of demand, which are growing. I am positive we will be
:48:03. > :48:07.able to maintain the best services for vulnerable people. But it cannot
:48:08. > :48:10.be left unsaid that it is quite likely `` likely that some
:48:11. > :48:17.non`statutory services will have to be reduced, and some may even go.
:48:18. > :48:22.What are we talking about? Give us some possible examples. I really
:48:23. > :48:26.cannot give you any examples at the moment. I do not want to discuss
:48:27. > :48:32.where jobs may be lost in the public without speaking to staff directly.
:48:33. > :48:35.It would be most unfair. Is it fair to say that council taxpayers in
:48:36. > :48:41.Lancashire will certainly have felt the impact of this by the end of the
:48:42. > :48:47.two years? By the end of the four years. They most definitely will
:48:48. > :48:51.have. There are some services that we can no longer provide. We are
:48:52. > :48:55.looking at it strategically, which is why we have announced these
:48:56. > :48:59.losses early in the game, so people can plan. We are putting processes
:49:00. > :49:04.in place so people can move into different areas of work if they want
:49:05. > :49:10.to remain with the County Council. I'm going to have to stop you there.
:49:11. > :49:15.Ben, how do you feel about the cuts that have been imposed on local
:49:16. > :49:26.government? To I don't want cuts. I didn't go into politics either to
:49:27. > :49:31.cut. I cannot remember any time when councils have not had to make cuts.
:49:32. > :49:36.Whether it is because we have to deal with the deficit we inherited.
:49:37. > :49:43.I can never remember a period like this in terms of scale? You're
:49:44. > :49:50.right. I cannot also remember any government inheriting the biggest
:49:51. > :49:58.deficit since the war. We all have to find money. Are you worried that
:49:59. > :50:05.councils may be getting cut too deeply or not? Am I worried? I don't
:50:06. > :50:12.want it to happen but it has to happen. I'd take the view that the
:50:13. > :50:15.economy is turning a corner. The Labour opposition said we had to
:50:16. > :50:22.slow down the cuts. They were too fast and too deep. And plan B was
:50:23. > :50:27.supposed to solve it. If the economy start and continues to turn the
:50:28. > :50:30.corner, hopefully those cuts will be mitigated in the long term in the
:50:31. > :50:38.future. For now, we have to balance the books. Derek, what will the
:50:39. > :50:43.future of local government be under a Labour government? The problems
:50:44. > :50:47.with the deficit, in terms of the economy, or caused by the banks not
:50:48. > :50:52.the last government. One of the key things that should be made clear is
:50:53. > :50:57.that cuts are not just taking place, it is unfair in the way that they
:50:58. > :51:01.are being done. Those councils that are the most deprived are having the
:51:02. > :51:07.biggest cuts. A lot of the richer councils are not having that. There
:51:08. > :51:11.is a subtle moved by this government now where they are going to move
:51:12. > :51:18.away from facing funding on needs, to actually spending what you can
:51:19. > :51:21.raise. That will gear more money again towards the south. Jenny,
:51:22. > :51:24.thank you for joining us. Well, from grassroots politics to
:51:25. > :51:27.grassroots football. We have three of the world's ten richest clubs `
:51:28. > :51:32.Manchester United, Manchester City and Liverpool. And there's even more
:51:33. > :51:37.cash coming in with the latest multi`billion pound TV deal. But one
:51:38. > :51:41.of our MPs is campaigning for the Premier League to be a little more
:51:42. > :51:42.generous when it comes to supporting local communities. Here's Stuart
:51:43. > :51:56.Pollitt. Wayne Rooney has devoted his life to
:51:57. > :52:01.football. In return he gets 200 000 a week. Tom and Lesley Allon have
:52:02. > :52:10.devoted their life to football as well. They do it for nothing. Every
:52:11. > :52:16.evening, weekend, Saturday, Sunday, at least two hours a night. If we
:52:17. > :52:20.didn't do it, the kids would not be able to play football. And all too
:52:21. > :52:23.often those kids are struggling to play football because, at grassroots
:52:24. > :52:29.level, there's a lack of, well, grass. It's all muddy and it is real
:52:30. > :52:32.hard to play. The ball gets stock. Teams like Horwich St Mary's need
:52:33. > :52:40.money. Their MP has launched a petition saying they should get it
:52:41. > :52:42.from the Premier League. Whilst international footballers are
:52:43. > :52:47.earning millions of pounds a year, our children don't have good enough
:52:48. > :52:52.facilities. It is about time they did. The Premier League will bring
:52:53. > :52:56.in upwards of ?5 billion from TV income in the next three years. This
:52:57. > :52:59.petition calls for 7.5% of that ` around 375 million ` to go to
:53:00. > :53:00.grassroots football. The Premier League is promising ?168 million,
:53:01. > :53:11.half of that amount. Some of that Premier League money,
:53:12. > :53:21.350,000, was spent here on four pitches at Wigan Youth Zone.
:53:22. > :53:25.We have now got over 8000 members. We were looking for 3000. The centre
:53:26. > :53:29.was the brainchild of Wigan Athletic owner Dave Whelan. His club were in
:53:30. > :53:36.the Premier League until last season.
:53:37. > :53:42.The Premier League get criticised for not helping other nations, other
:53:43. > :53:47.football communities, but they do an awful lot of work. You are happy
:53:48. > :53:52.with the level of contribution? They could always do more. If they could
:53:53. > :53:55.contribute a little more, we would all be thankful. We should say
:53:56. > :54:09.thanks very much for what they do already.
:54:10. > :54:16.Those who are keeping the grassroots game going, remain worried.
:54:17. > :54:20.Children's football is at the bottom of the pyramid and we need some
:54:21. > :54:29.help. At the moment we need some help. At the moment we run clubhouse
:54:30. > :54:33.or changing rooms. We have nothing. There will be no shortage of pitches
:54:34. > :54:37.here at Manchester City's new training complex, where they are
:54:38. > :54:43.building 16 alongside some community facilities. While one club continues
:54:44. > :54:52.to spend more on wages in a single year, demands for the game to spread
:54:53. > :54:59.its wealth will surely only grow. Derek, what do you think, should the
:55:00. > :55:05.Premier League be spending more Yes, I'd like to see them spending
:55:06. > :55:10.more. Part of the problem stems from how the game is now government. The
:55:11. > :55:17.Premier League is very powerful They do have to do more in terms of
:55:18. > :55:22.supporting grassroots football. We need to see exchange. David wants to
:55:23. > :55:27.double the amount of money going in. Is that right? I think David has got
:55:28. > :55:32.a strong case. I would support him. It is how schools are involved,
:55:33. > :55:37.making sure we give kids a chance to develop. Facilities are important,
:55:38. > :55:41.but coaching kids in the correct way, so we can see more top class
:55:42. > :55:48.home`grown players getting to the clubs we have been talking about.
:55:49. > :55:53.Isn't there a problem, Ben, that you can shout as loudly as you like as
:55:54. > :55:59.politicians, but organisations like the Premier League tend not to do
:56:00. > :56:06.this and? `` listen. I think they should. All sport is anchored in the
:56:07. > :56:10.unity is that they sit in. The Premier League is getting more and
:56:11. > :56:14.more away from the rest of football. It has become so Super League, I
:56:15. > :56:18.think people start asking questions about what it is for. Local
:56:19. > :56:23.supporters have to pay a lot of money to watch a game. If you fall
:56:24. > :56:27.out of the Premier League, it can be pretty horrendous financially for a
:56:28. > :56:30.club that is not a regular in the top flight. And English football is
:56:31. > :56:39.not doing well on the international sports scene. How the force them to
:56:40. > :56:43.take notice? You have to remind them of the importance of the community.
:56:44. > :56:47.You are only as good as the community you sit amongst. And
:56:48. > :56:51.secondly, you need to say that all good businesses invest in their
:56:52. > :56:57.future skills base. If you do not want, in the future, the skills base
:56:58. > :57:00.from abroad or anywhere else to take from you, you should be investing
:57:01. > :57:07.from the grassroots because you will reap the benefits. You are a big
:57:08. > :57:12.Liverpool fan. What could they be doing? Clubs have a responsibility.
:57:13. > :57:16.They are part of the Premier League and they need to use their influence
:57:17. > :57:21.within the Premier League. Liverpool have had a very good community
:57:22. > :57:25.involvement. It is about working more closely with the grassroots
:57:26. > :57:30.clubs, schools... Also, finding the money to put into develop these
:57:31. > :57:34.grassroots. We see so many talents that we could have had, do not get
:57:35. > :57:40.to the top. It is about putting resources in.
:57:41. > :57:46.Time for the rest of the week's news now ` here's a round`up in 60
:57:47. > :57:49.seconds. Senior politicians gathered in
:57:50. > :57:53.Salford this week to pay their respects to Paul Goggins. The Labour
:57:54. > :57:56.leadership and the Commons speaker were among the guests at the funeral
:57:57. > :58:00.of the Wythenshawe and Sale East MP, who died last week aged 60.
:58:01. > :58:02.Morecambe MP David Morris tabled a Commons motion calling for the
:58:03. > :58:05.Hillcroft Care Home owners to apologise ` three care workers were
:58:06. > :58:11.found guilty of abusing dementia patients at the home near Lancaster.
:58:12. > :58:15.Give her boys back ` a mum whose twins were taken from her by a court
:58:16. > :58:22.in Austria, had her case raised in the Commons by the Blackley and
:58:23. > :58:26.Broughton MP, Graham Stringer. Mistake has been made but now they
:58:27. > :58:28.need to correct it and give me my children back.
:58:29. > :58:33.Bottom of the class ` Blackpool s plans to improve secondary schools
:58:34. > :58:35.were described as dire. The council is not being
:58:36. > :58:38.sufficiently challenging. And Jim Dobbin led calls for the
:58:39. > :58:41.Teletubbies to tear down the barriers to democracy. The Labour MP
:58:42. > :58:42.says showing them in North Korea could help bring down the
:58:43. > :58:51.dictatorship. Derek, as we just saw, an impressive
:58:52. > :59:01.turnout this week for Paul Goggins' funeral? It was an amazing turnout.
:59:02. > :59:06.This shows how well liked, how well respected, and what a tremendous
:59:07. > :59:10.politician Paul was. He will be very badly missed. He had so much
:59:11. > :59:17.ability. Let's have a listen to some of the tributes paid to him.
:59:18. > :59:22.Paul Goggins had a capacity for getting his words and his ideas
:59:23. > :59:26.across without the kind of aggression which is often a feature
:59:27. > :59:30.of the British political system He was a Labour man to the core of his
:59:31. > :59:37.being, yet he was actually the least tribal of politicians. When I came
:59:38. > :59:41.into Parliament, whenever I had difficulty, I would always seek out
:59:42. > :59:48.Paul and ask him what to do. He always steered me on the right pad.
:59:49. > :59:55.`` part. We feel we have lost one of our own and one of our best in Paul
:59:56. > :00:01.Goggins. Then, what could MPs learn from him?
:00:02. > :00:06.Exactly in some sense what the speaker said. He was clearly a
:00:07. > :00:12.Labour man but he was not partisan. He was pair `` fair`minded, decent
:00:13. > :00:16.and honest. People have forgotten that good politicians, it comes down
:00:17. > :00:18.to believe and honesty. He was bowled. That is what we can learn.
:00:19. > :00:31.Thank you both. Now we return houses being built by the mayor
:00:32. > :00:37.Andrew, back to you. Welcome back. Now she made quite a splash last
:00:38. > :00:41.night. I am talking, of course, of the Portsmouth North MP, Penny
:00:42. > :00:44.Mordaunt. If you missed her first appearance in ITV's celebrity diving
:00:45. > :00:59.competition show, here she is in action.
:01:00. > :01:16.APPLAUSE Here is a lady who is more used to
:01:17. > :01:22.campaigning for votes than diving for them. She created far too much
:01:23. > :01:34.rotation. Hard work has gone into the start of this dive to try and
:01:35. > :01:37.control it. That looked painful Now the Portsmouth North MP got voted
:01:38. > :01:40.off the show last night but what about the verdict that really
:01:41. > :01:42.matters? The newly appointed Minister for Portsmouth, Michael
:01:43. > :01:49.Fallon, is here. Welcome to the programme. I would give her ten out
:01:50. > :01:53.of ten for bravery. I was cheering her on. She was doing this for a
:01:54. > :02:01.local charity, raising money for the local swimming pool. She was a good
:02:02. > :02:04.sport. As Minister for Portsmouth, can we expect to see you in your
:02:05. > :02:09.swimming trunks for the next series? I do not think I have the
:02:10. > :02:14.spare time at the moment. But there is a big challenge in Portsmouth.
:02:15. > :02:20.Penny Mordaunt and the other local MPs there have been remorseless in
:02:21. > :02:27.asking ministers to help the city. They are losing jobs. There is a
:02:28. > :02:34.goblin Trinity -- there is a big opportunity to create jobs. Should
:02:35. > :02:37.she have been on a celebrity television show of their role these
:02:38. > :02:43.problems in Portsmouth? This was in her spare time and it is raising
:02:44. > :02:50.money for a good cause. I do not think we should eat two sniffy about
:02:51. > :02:56.it. Did I not see you dressed up on Thursday night, doing your
:02:57. > :03:04.programme? This is my job. This is not her job. It was in her spare
:03:05. > :03:11.time, she was raising money for a local charity. Your Minister for
:03:12. > :03:15.Portsmouth. Are we going to have a minister for every town? Are we
:03:16. > :03:18.going to have a minister for Chipping Sodbury? Chipping Sodbury
:03:19. > :03:26.does not have the issues that Portsmouth have -- that Portsmouth
:03:27. > :03:31.has. There are jobs at risk in shipbuilding. The government puts in
:03:32. > :03:36.a lot of money through the regional growth fund, some ?20 million. There
:03:37. > :03:41.are range of government funding streams going into Portsmouth. My
:03:42. > :03:46.job is to make sure that is properly coordinated. I need to make sure
:03:47. > :03:49.that Portsmouth seizes this opportunity to develop a more
:03:50. > :03:53.broadly -based marine and maritime economy. To make sure a marginal
:03:54. > :03:59.seat stays Tory at the next election? There are marginal seats
:04:00. > :04:09.everywhere. There is a Liberal Democrat marginal the -- seat. Vince
:04:10. > :04:13.Cable and I have been working together for the issues that
:04:14. > :04:18.Portsmouth is facing. We work on these things together. But I have
:04:19. > :04:22.the very specific job of making sure that the effort on the ground is
:04:23. > :04:27.coordinated. So Vince Cable is not the Minister for Portsmouth? I have
:04:28. > :04:34.been there recently, so has Vince Cable. So there are two ministers
:04:35. > :04:39.for Portsmouth? Just a minute. I am making sure that the effort is
:04:40. > :04:42.properly coordinated on the ground. I am determined to turn this
:04:43. > :04:50.challenging time into a proper opportunity. Should we be to Paul
:04:51. > :04:54.faced about this? No, good honour. How much money would be have to pay
:04:55. > :05:00.you to get into a swimming costume? Bid is not enough money in the BBC
:05:01. > :05:07.covers. Good on her. It took seven years to get a leg there's an MP.
:05:08. > :05:11.She should be a minister. It is a pity she has the spare time to do
:05:12. > :05:16.this. She is very talented. It is interesting about the Minister for
:05:17. > :05:22.Portsmouth, up in the north-east they must be sad that they do not
:05:23. > :05:26.have any marginal seats. Nick Brown as David Cameron last July, can we
:05:27. > :05:31.have a minister for the north-east, and the Prime Minister is said no?
:05:32. > :05:39.Does this mean that Portsmouth is more deprived economic late than the
:05:40. > :05:41.north-east? No, it means it is a marginal seat.
:05:42. > :05:44.The Labour Leader Ed Miliband was on the Andrew Marr programme this
:05:45. > :05:47.morning and he outlined plans under a Labour government for an annual
:05:48. > :05:49.competition audit. Here is what he had to say. The next Labour
:05:50. > :05:53.government will have an annual competition at it, not just done by
:05:54. > :05:58.the regulatory body. Alongside them will be the citizens advice bureau,
:05:59. > :06:01.setting the agenda for the future, setting the agenda for how we can
:06:02. > :06:07.ensure that competition will benefit consumers and businesses. I want to
:06:08. > :06:09.see Labour going into the next election as the party of
:06:10. > :06:15.competition, the party of the consumer, the party of hard-pressed
:06:16. > :06:18.working families who are struggling. They need somebody to deal with
:06:19. > :06:23.those issues and that is what the next Labour government will do. I
:06:24. > :06:29.thought you were meant to be the party of competition? We are the
:06:30. > :06:34.party of competition. This is the party that has given us some of
:06:35. > :06:36.these problems. We have an annual competition review in the energy
:06:37. > :06:43.sector. We have already tackling banking. What is interesting about
:06:44. > :06:46.his proposal is it is the smaller ones who are less sure about this,
:06:47. > :06:51.the smaller banks who think that this could inhibit the growth. It is
:06:52. > :06:54.the smaller energy companies who think that through interfering with
:06:55. > :07:00.the market, through his price freeze, that he will hinder
:07:01. > :07:07.competition. We spoke about this before. It is a clever pitch that Ed
:07:08. > :07:12.Miliband is making. Under the guise of token markets and claiming to be
:07:13. > :07:18.the party of competition, he is creating the reason for state
:07:19. > :07:22.intervention? -- broken markets Exactly, and it is state
:07:23. > :07:30.intervention that does not work There is a proud tradition in
:07:31. > :07:34.government of smashing open cartels. Teddy Roosevelt did it nearly a
:07:35. > :07:37.century ago. The problem is, in those situations it was clear and
:07:38. > :07:44.obvious that the consumers were suffering. I am not sure it is
:07:45. > :07:48.entirely obvious in this country. In the banking sector we have free
:07:49. > :07:53.current accounts in the high street. That is not true in all Western
:07:54. > :07:56.countries. In the energy sector our bills are not outlandish they high.
:07:57. > :08:03.It is when we take taxes into account the become unaffordable He
:08:04. > :08:08.has to make the case that consumers are suffering as a result of these
:08:09. > :08:13.monopolies. Ed Miliband would say it is not about state intervention but
:08:14. > :08:18.about making markets work. The piece that was written by his intellectual
:08:19. > :08:21.Duryea about the significance and the importance of Teddy Roosevelt.
:08:22. > :08:27.He was the Republican president in the yearly -- in the early years of
:08:28. > :08:35.the last century. He wanted markets to work. There is an interesting
:08:36. > :08:40.debate on Twitter this morning. Tim Montgomerie is saying, why are we,
:08:41. > :08:50.the Conservative Party, not seen as the party of Teddy Roosevelt? We are
:08:51. > :08:54.seen as the party of business. There are smaller energy companies
:08:55. > :08:59.competing against the big six. In banking, we have seen smaller
:09:00. > :09:04.companies coming. It was the Labour government that created the big six
:09:05. > :09:09.energy companies. I think Teddy Roosevelt also invaded Cuba and the
:09:10. > :09:14.Philippines. That could give us a clue as to Ed Miliband's foreign
:09:15. > :09:19.policy. Nigel Farage has promised to purge the party of its more extreme
:09:20. > :09:23.candidates ahead of the European Council elections in May. But that
:09:24. > :09:32.may not be going so well. Listen to this. The latest in this process is
:09:33. > :09:39.these homosexual laws. And Thomas I shall manage. I believe that the
:09:40. > :09:45.Prime Minister, who was warned that disasters would follow a three went
:09:46. > :09:50.in this direction, he has persisted, and I believe that this is largely a
:09:51. > :09:56.repercussion from this godlessness that he has persisted in. The
:09:57. > :10:01.instructions I have got from now on, or is just not to answer in, and not
:10:02. > :10:07.to give interviews such as this one. So you are ignoring them? I am not
:10:08. > :10:12.ignoring them. But you are talking to me? You are the last one I shall
:10:13. > :10:18.be speaking to. I think it is too late. Who would have thought it It
:10:19. > :10:24.is not global warming that is causing the floods, it is gay
:10:25. > :10:28.marriage? That explains it. Last year David Cameron offered a coded
:10:29. > :10:32.retraction of his statement that UKIP is full of fruit cakes. I think
:10:33. > :10:38.he will be tempted to retract the retraction. It is a warning to lots
:10:39. > :10:45.of Tories who think that their best interests are served by flirting
:10:46. > :10:49.with lace -- with UKIP. Nigel Farage is a very plausible guy, but several
:10:50. > :10:55.layers down, there are people who are very different. Nigel Farage is
:10:56. > :11:00.saying that he's going to clear the party out of what Mr Cameron called
:11:01. > :11:05.the fruitcakes. If he is true to his word, Mr Sylvester's days in the
:11:06. > :11:15.party should they numbered. If Nigel Farage falls under the bus, what is
:11:16. > :11:21.left of place -- what is left of UKIP? People say that they like UKIP
:11:22. > :11:27.because unlike other politicians, they speak their mind. But as it
:11:28. > :11:32.turns into more of a proper organisation, people speaking their
:11:33. > :11:36.mind will be less acceptable. The European elections are always a
:11:37. > :11:40.protest vote. People are not happy with the elite. You will get people
:11:41. > :11:46.saying utterly ridiculous things like that man in Henley-on-Thames.
:11:47. > :11:49.But this is a chance to vote against the entire political establishment.
:11:50. > :11:58.I am not sure that comments like that will make much of a difference.
:11:59. > :12:03.There are lots of arguments about climate change. That was certainly a
:12:04. > :12:08.new one! They are the only big protest party at the moment. Protest
:12:09. > :12:13.party is obviously hoovered up lots of votes. We have got to be clear in
:12:14. > :12:17.European message that we are the only party that can reform Europe
:12:18. > :12:23.and give people a proper choice the first referendum in over 40 years.
:12:24. > :12:28.Mr Sylvester used to be a conservative. You're probably glad
:12:29. > :12:33.to see the back of him? David Cameron is right, there are probably
:12:34. > :12:36.a few fruitcakes around there. I think that mainstream conservatives
:12:37. > :12:42.will understand that this is the only party that can secure European
:12:43. > :12:46.reform and give people the choice they have been arguing for. Whatever
:12:47. > :12:52.happens in the European elections, it is a protest vote. We have almost
:12:53. > :12:56.run out of time. We will see this week of Chris Rennard gets the party
:12:57. > :13:01.whip act. There is a battle brewing between Danny Alexander and the
:13:02. > :13:07.common side of the Liberal Democrats and the House of Lords. If he turns
:13:08. > :13:14.up on Monday and asks to be let in, I they going to make a big scene at
:13:15. > :13:20.the gate of Parliament? And the issue will stay in the papers? Yes,
:13:21. > :13:28.they are clearly nervous that Lord Rennard might be tempted to mount a
:13:29. > :13:32.legal bid. That is all for today. Thanks to all my guests. The Daily
:13:33. > :13:37.Politics is back on Monday at midday on BBC Two. And I will be here again
:13:38. > :13:39.next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.