:00:37. > :00:42.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The unions helped
:00:43. > :00:46.him beat his brother to the top Now Ed Miliband wants to change Labour's
:00:47. > :00:50.relationship with them. Who will come out on top? We will be asking
:00:51. > :00:52.one union baron what he thinks. Cracks in the coalition after
:00:53. > :00:57.Education Secretary Michael Gove sacks the chairwoman of Ofsted. His
:00:58. > :01:00.Lib Dem deputy is said to be hopping mad. We will be talking to the new
:01:01. > :01:04.deputy leader of the Lib Dems, Malcolm Bruce.
:01:05. > :01:06.Caught a bout of the EU blues? David Cameron has been drowning his
:01:07. > :01:10.sorrows with the President of France. Who better? We will be
:01:11. > :01:13.asking if the EU referendum bill is dead in the water.
:01:14. > :01:17.And bad weather getting you down? Getting from A to B a bit of a
:01:18. > :01:19.nightmare? Fear not! The leader of the Greens will be here with her
:01:20. > :01:33.traffic and travel report. Dutch And in the North West... Closing the
:01:34. > :01:36.widening economic gap between here and London.
:01:37. > :01:38.And the battle of the sexes. We want more women in Westminster. But how?
:01:39. > :01:49.reassurance people want? Yes, all that and more in today s
:01:50. > :01:52.action-packed Sunday Politics. And blowing more hot air than I have had
:01:53. > :01:58.hot dinners, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt and Iain Martin.
:01:59. > :02:01.After the row about candidate selection in Falkirk, Ed Miliband
:02:02. > :02:04.said he wanted to reshape the relationship between Labour and the
:02:05. > :02:07.unions. The biggest changes involve union membership of the party, which
:02:08. > :02:15.in turn will affect future Labour leadership elections. Some claim
:02:16. > :02:18.this is Ed's Clause 4 moment. But the unions will continue to be
:02:19. > :02:21.powerful at conference and on the party's ruling committees, and they
:02:22. > :02:24.will still be able to bankroll the election campaign. Here is Labour's
:02:25. > :02:34.deputy leader, Harriet Harman, speaking earlier. What he is
:02:35. > :02:38.proposing for the March the 1st conference is a huge change in
:02:39. > :02:45.financing, in the election of the leader, in what goes on at local
:02:46. > :02:48.level. In due course, it might have implications for the NEC elections
:02:49. > :02:51.and conference. But this is already a big issue to take forward.
:02:52. > :02:54.Joining me now is Paul Kenny, general secretary of the GMB union
:02:55. > :03:03.and chair of the Trade Union and Labour Party Liaison Organisation.
:03:04. > :03:11.Is this Ed Miliband's Clause 4 moment? I don't know about that It
:03:12. > :03:17.is certainly a bold move, particularly to have an electoral
:03:18. > :03:21.college, which as you said was the system which elected him in the
:03:22. > :03:26.first place. Everybody admits that has needed reforming for some time.
:03:27. > :03:33.Moving to a one member, one vote situation seems to me to be
:03:34. > :03:39.sensible. I know some people are upset, mostly MPs, who will lose
:03:40. > :03:48.their golden share. But it is nonsense that one MP should have the
:03:49. > :03:58.same vote as 1000 party members So the MPs have lost out. Have the
:03:59. > :04:01.unions lost out? Well, the system is currently that union members get a
:04:02. > :04:06.ballot paper, but they have to declare that they are a Labour
:04:07. > :04:11.supporter and they have to sign to that effect in order to participate.
:04:12. > :04:18.Then their vote is counted. At the last election, about 200,000 trade
:04:19. > :04:23.union members gave that indication, and they participated in that way.
:04:24. > :04:29.That will not change. The way it is organised will be different. The big
:04:30. > :04:36.change in the electoral college is that the logical weight given to MPs
:04:37. > :04:40.will disappear. I wonder if you have really lost anything. At the moment,
:04:41. > :04:43.there are about 3 million people automatically affiliated from the
:04:44. > :04:48.unions to the Labour Party. If only 10% of them opt in, that will still
:04:49. > :04:56.mean twice as many union individual members, 300,000, versus about
:04:57. > :05:02.180,000 Labour Party members. So union members and maybe even the
:05:03. > :05:08.unions will have as big an influence on the leadership elections as you
:05:09. > :05:12.do now, maybe bigger? Well, they are individual votes. Different unions
:05:13. > :05:19.support different candidates. It is lost in the media myth of barons and
:05:20. > :05:22.block votes, but there is an individual vote. Different unions
:05:23. > :05:26.recommend different candidates, and union members vote accordingly. Ed
:05:27. > :05:32.Miliband won more individual votes by a country mile than David, but it
:05:33. > :05:39.got messed up in the process of this electoral college. As I have
:05:40. > :05:44.understood the proposals so far they are not a done deal. There is a
:05:45. > :05:50.lot of discussion. But it seems there are three hurdles. Firstly,
:05:51. > :05:54.union members themselves will have to agree whether they want to
:05:55. > :05:59.affiliate to the Labour Party. If they don't, the rest of it falls. If
:06:00. > :06:05.they decide they do my they will ask union members to support that an
:06:06. > :06:09.individual basis the next five years, which will have financial
:06:10. > :06:13.implications. Then there will be a third position, which is that people
:06:14. > :06:17.who may want to agree with the union's position and affiliate with
:06:18. > :06:20.the Labour Party may want to go further and become active supporters
:06:21. > :06:24.of the Labour Party, participating in leadership elections. They will
:06:25. > :06:29.have to give their sanction to that at a third stage. So the
:06:30. > :06:34.implications in terms of constituency parties and so on are a
:06:35. > :06:41.lot less than the idea that the 3 million who are currently affiliated
:06:42. > :06:46.will change. At the moment, the unions, because of the automatic
:06:47. > :06:51.affiliation, hand over a affiliation fees of about ?8 million a year to
:06:52. > :06:54.Labour. You will now get to keep that money, because the individuals
:06:55. > :07:02.will have to put up the money themselves. You can keep that money
:07:03. > :07:06.and determine if you give it to Labour to fight the election
:07:07. > :07:11.campaign, correct? Incorrect. Firstly, the affiliation fees are
:07:12. > :07:15.paid from what is called the political fund, which most unions
:07:16. > :07:19.have to set up in order to participate. The union will continue
:07:20. > :07:26.to pay the ?3 a affiliation fee for those members who want the union to
:07:27. > :07:33.be affiliated. But you get to keep a lot more money. In reality, we will
:07:34. > :07:41.see a transitional period of a few years. Less people will probably say
:07:42. > :07:45.yes, depending on how popular Labour are, about whether they want the
:07:46. > :07:58.union to give money to the Labour Party. The GMB has already done
:07:59. > :08:05.this. By the way, don't call me kneel. It is Andrew or Mr Neil. The
:08:06. > :08:08.unions will have a bigger chunk of money because the unions will not be
:08:09. > :08:13.handing over all of the money at one time. But you could still play a
:08:14. > :08:17.major part in funding the Labour election campaign. We'll how much
:08:18. > :08:25.you give the dependent on what the Labour Party puts in its manifesto?
:08:26. > :08:30.Of course it will. It will have to justify our support to Labour for
:08:31. > :08:35.the members who provide money to the political fund. If we did not argue
:08:36. > :08:39.for the cert is social justice campaigns and laws we want to see,
:08:40. > :08:42.we would be failing in our job. I don't intend to hide that from
:08:43. > :08:50.anybody. The unions are there to fight for their members. That is our
:08:51. > :08:54.job. So you will still be a major part of the bankroll of the Labour
:08:55. > :08:59.campaign. You will still have 5 % of the votes at a Labour conference,
:09:00. > :09:02.and you will still have a major part in the Labour National executive
:09:03. > :09:06.committee and the policy committee. It is right to say the unions are
:09:07. > :09:15.still at the heart of Labour, are they not? Well, if you sick to break
:09:16. > :09:20.the affiliated link between trade unions and the Labour Party, the
:09:21. > :09:24.whole thing collapses. That is what anchors the Labour Party as far as
:09:25. > :09:28.we are concerned. Many of our members think that when they want to
:09:29. > :09:32.look for ferrochrome and rights social justice, housing and the
:09:33. > :09:36.health service, Labour are better it quipped to deliver that for working
:09:37. > :09:39.people than the current parties That is why we have traditionally
:09:40. > :09:45.supported them. But not at all of our members support Labour, which is
:09:46. > :09:51.why we don't affiliate all of them to Labour. There are over 30 million
:09:52. > :10:01.people in the British labour force now. Union membership is only 6 5
:10:02. > :10:07.million out of that 30. A 6.5% of that do not vote Labour, they vote
:10:08. > :10:12.Tory or liberal or nationalist in Scotland. So you are a relatively
:10:13. > :10:18.small pressure group. Why should Labour be in thrall to you? We are
:10:19. > :10:25.the biggest voluntary organisation in this country. Sorry about that,
:10:26. > :10:28.but that is the fact. People make conscious choices. My own union the
:10:29. > :10:34.GMB, has been growing for eight years. So this dying picture you are
:10:35. > :10:38.trying to paint... In terms of accounting for the fact that some do
:10:39. > :10:46.not support Labour, that is why unions do not affiliate all of their
:10:47. > :10:49.members to the Labour Party. We have adjusted to that. If you don't like
:10:50. > :10:57.being called Neil, I don't like being called a barren either. What
:10:58. > :11:01.about Mr Baron? I don't like that either. We are representatives of
:11:02. > :11:05.working organisations. It may be inconvenient for politicians to have
:11:06. > :11:11.to listen to working people, but we will continue to press. Lord Baron,
:11:12. > :11:17.thank you very much. So, is this a Clause 4 moment for Ed
:11:18. > :11:21.Miliband? Not really, but to his credit, he is going ahead with this.
:11:22. > :11:26.There was a point at which it looked as though Ed Miliband would back
:11:27. > :11:30.away from reform. To his credit he is trying to create a mass
:11:31. > :11:34.membership party again. But when it comes to the crucial business of
:11:35. > :11:38.funding a general election campaign, these reforms will make Labour more
:11:39. > :11:44.reliant on large donations from trade unions. They could have more
:11:45. > :11:48.power now, because they get to hold back this money, whereas beforehand,
:11:49. > :11:54.they had to hand it over automatically. As Mr Kenny just
:11:55. > :12:00.said, how much they handover will be dependent on good behaviour. Yes,
:12:01. > :12:04.but these are pragmatic reforms The fact that Ed Miliband has a lot of
:12:05. > :12:08.capital in not being seen as a Blairite has helped him get these
:12:09. > :12:13.through . The response has been muted, which suggests good party
:12:14. > :12:16.management on his behalf. That may be because they will still have 50%
:12:17. > :12:21.of the votes at a party conference. Mr Kenny was clear that that could
:12:22. > :12:24.be deal-breaker if they tried to take that away. They have more
:12:25. > :12:32.places at the NEC than anyone else, and party members, if only 10% of
:12:33. > :12:36.them signed up, they will outweigh individual members in the
:12:37. > :12:39.constituencies. It was interesting, how relaxed Paul Kenny was. He was
:12:40. > :12:42.taking thousands of pounds from the Labour Party a few months ago
:12:43. > :12:46.because he was annoyed about these reforms, and now he is relaxed
:12:47. > :12:50.because they still have 50% of the vote at Labour Party conference and
:12:51. > :12:54.Labour Party Parliamentary candidates are still selected in the
:12:55. > :12:58.same way. But there is a simple point here. Yes, you can pick apart
:12:59. > :13:02.what Ed Miliband said and said the unions have too much influence, but
:13:03. > :13:06.the only way he could have gone all the way was to break the link with
:13:07. > :13:11.the trade unions, and he was not going to do that. It was not the
:13:12. > :13:14.Labour Party that founded the unions, it was the unions that
:13:15. > :13:22.founded the Labour Party. Even Tony Blair did not break the link. In
:13:23. > :13:26.that context, Ed Miliband has gone incredibly far. For the last 50
:13:27. > :13:30.years, this opting into the union, you have to turn to page 50 of your
:13:31. > :13:34.union terms and conditions to say, do you want to opt out of the
:13:35. > :13:40.political levy 's that is going to go, which will mean that when the
:13:41. > :13:44.next Labour leader is elected from the union votes, they will get their
:13:45. > :13:50.ballot from the Labour Party and you will append the fast where ballots
:13:51. > :13:53.went out from Unison macro and GMB with a picture of Ed Miliband on the
:13:54. > :13:58.front of the ballot paper saying, vote for aid. They were Stasi and
:13:59. > :14:05.Saddam Hussein ways of trade union members electing the Labour leader,
:14:06. > :14:07.which will go. I am sorry his Lordship is not still here to answer
:14:08. > :14:11.that question. HMS Coalition is not a happy ship.
:14:12. > :14:15.The lovey-dovey days in the rose garden are long gone. It is not a
:14:16. > :14:18.loveless marriage, perhaps even an open one. The latest split is over
:14:19. > :14:22.the decision by Education Secretary Michael Gove to replace Labour peer
:14:23. > :14:25.Sally Morgan as head of the schools inspectorate, Ofsted. Mr Gove's
:14:26. > :14:27.deputy, Lib Dem David Laws, is said to be spitting blood about her
:14:28. > :14:35.removal, although only through surrogates. He has not said a word
:14:36. > :14:46.on the record. Here was the Education Secretary a little
:14:47. > :14:49.earlier. If there is another opportunity for Sally to serve in a
:14:50. > :14:54.different role at a different time, then I would be delighted to support
:14:55. > :14:58.her in the role which she thinks it is appropriate to do. There is
:14:59. > :15:02.nothing wrong with Sally but there is a principle across government
:15:03. > :15:06.that there should be no automatic reappointment, and that after three
:15:07. > :15:11.or four years, it is appropriate to bring in a fresh pair of eyes. That
:15:12. > :15:18.is good corporate practice in order to ensure that you refresh boards,
:15:19. > :15:23.bring a new perspective, and have tough questions asked. We're joined
:15:24. > :15:27.now by the newly elected deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats
:15:28. > :15:32.Malcolm Bruce. He's in Aberdeen Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:15:33. > :15:37.David Laws is said to be furious with Michael Gove, is he? I think he
:15:38. > :15:42.is because Sally Morgan has been doing a good job and that has been
:15:43. > :15:47.generally agreed across the whole spectrum. I think Ofsted is an
:15:48. > :15:52.impartial body that inspects all schools and it shouldn't be subject
:15:53. > :15:56.to some kind of political direction. That is the concern, that she is
:15:57. > :15:59.being removed when she was doing a good job and most people thought she
:16:00. > :16:13.should be reappointed. It is strongly rumoured her successor will
:16:14. > :16:19.be a high-ranking Tory backer. Why hasn't David Laws said this himself,
:16:20. > :16:24.have you spoken to him? I have, and I know he is not very pleased about
:16:25. > :16:29.it but he will want to speak to Michael Gove himself when he gets to
:16:30. > :16:34.see him on Monday. The question you have to take on board is that David
:16:35. > :16:39.Laws is the schools minister, effectively the one who has
:16:40. > :16:43.engagement with Ofsted, and he is seeing it being undermined by the
:16:44. > :16:47.Secretary of State. There is a question that if Michael Gove is so
:16:48. > :16:52.pleased with Sally Morgan why is he replacing her, and who will he be
:16:53. > :16:56.replacing her with, and on what basis? Maybe parliament should have
:16:57. > :17:01.a confirmation hearing so that we can be assured that whoever is put
:17:02. > :17:10.in charge is there because they are good at it. Why has he licensed his
:17:11. > :17:15.surrogates to save this rather than saying it himself? He didn't, he
:17:16. > :17:22.knew I was on the programme this morning so I am giving you the
:17:23. > :17:29.answers as best I can. David is perfectly capable of speaking for
:17:30. > :17:33.himself. He hasn't so far. You asked me to come on this programme and
:17:34. > :17:38.David was anxious for me to know he wasn't happy about it, and I can
:17:39. > :17:42.certainly tell you that. I can also give you my own opinion which is
:17:43. > :17:50.that Ofsted is not the Department for Education, it is an independent
:17:51. > :17:55.body. The question you have to ask is will Michael Gove but someone in
:17:56. > :18:01.charge of Ofsted who will have a political agenda? If so, that is not
:18:02. > :18:07.what Ofsted should be used for. Let's move on to your own position.
:18:08. > :18:18.You are 69, white male, middle-class, what is your answer to
:18:19. > :18:22.the party with diversity problems? I don't think that is what they voted
:18:23. > :18:26.on. They felt I had a wealth of experience that would be vulnerable
:18:27. > :18:30.to the party from the period now until the election, not least
:18:31. > :18:35.because the central issues that will concern voters are the economy, and
:18:36. > :18:42.I have a track record of promoting the party's economic policy over
:18:43. > :18:47.many years. But you are not even standing at the next election. No,
:18:48. > :18:59.but we need to get to the next election and my colleagues have
:19:00. > :19:01.confidence that I can do a useful job for the party in that situation.
:19:02. > :19:04.We have developed and delivered policies that I have helped to shape
:19:05. > :19:06.and I want to persuade people to understand the Liberal Democrats
:19:07. > :19:11.have made a fundamental difference to the economic recovery. But you
:19:12. > :19:14.know what has been happening with the Liberal Democrats and their
:19:15. > :19:22.problems with women. Wasn't this a chance to select a woman in a major
:19:23. > :19:30.part? You only have seven female MPs out of 57, not a single Lib Dem
:19:31. > :19:35.woman in the Parliament. Again, why you rather than making a break and
:19:36. > :19:42.bringing someone in onto major positions? My colleagues have
:19:43. > :19:47.concluded that the role I am best qualified to do it, that is why they
:19:48. > :19:52.voted for me. We do only have seven women and that is an issue we need
:19:53. > :20:04.to address. Two of those women are ministers, one is a government whip.
:20:05. > :20:08.We seem to have lost our line to Aberdeen, just as Malcolm Bruce was
:20:09. > :20:16.in full flight defending his position. I'm not sure if we can get
:20:17. > :20:22.the line back, just bear with me for a few seconds to see if we can get
:20:23. > :20:25.it. It looks as if we have lost Malcolm Bruce, I do apologise to
:20:26. > :20:34.Malcolm Bruce and the viewers that we were not able to continue that
:20:35. > :20:36.interview. Fierce winds, torrential rain and a
:20:37. > :20:39.tidal surge have brought more misery to thousands. Official records show
:20:40. > :20:42.that southern England has seen the wettest January since records began
:20:43. > :20:45.in 1767. I remember it well. The Somerset Levels have been hit by
:20:46. > :20:51.weeks of flooding, with little respite from relentless rain. And,
:20:52. > :20:57.the residents of one village on the Levels, Muchelney, has been cut off
:20:58. > :21:11.for almost a month. We sent our Adam out with his wellies and a properly
:21:12. > :21:19.filled out risk assessment form The very wet road to Muchelney. This
:21:20. > :21:24.village of about 100 residents has been cut off for about four weeks,
:21:25. > :21:33.and like the weather vane, it feels a little bit spooky. It came up to
:21:34. > :21:37.here and your front door was there. Anita is just relieved the water
:21:38. > :21:43.stopped here, practically on her doorstep. Now it is the
:21:44. > :21:51.practicalities that are the problem. Driving around for food is quite a
:21:52. > :21:55.hassle. You are foraging. It's not as bad as that but we do have a few
:21:56. > :22:00.bits in the vegetable garden still, and we had some nice apples until
:22:01. > :22:08.the rats ate them but we are not doing too badly on that score. It
:22:09. > :22:13.sounds like the medieval! That's what it feels like. Talking of
:22:14. > :22:23.retro, who knew Somerset still had a Coleman, this is Brian's first
:22:24. > :22:26.delivery since Christmas. Everything has gone old-fashioned. We are now
:22:27. > :22:31.talking to neighbours we might never have seen before or spoken to so we
:22:32. > :22:37.are getting to know more people in the village. She's right, there has
:22:38. > :22:41.been an outbreak of Dunkirk spirit, quite literally. The council and the
:22:42. > :22:50.Fire Brigade have put on this boat service to get people to work and
:22:51. > :22:59.school. The church has become an unofficial flood HQ. This is where
:23:00. > :23:03.people pick up their mail, and this is where the people who run the boat
:23:04. > :23:09.stopped for their tea breaks. It all seems quite jolly, if a bit boring,
:23:10. > :23:16.but it is no fun for the homes and businesses that have been inundated,
:23:17. > :23:20.or for the farmers whose land is underwater, an area the size of
:23:21. > :23:25.Bristol, or for the villages which are less isolated but where the
:23:26. > :23:29.flooding is worse. People like the parish chairman are starting to get
:23:30. > :23:35.angry with how the Government has responded. It was all a bit late. We
:23:36. > :23:40.knew what was going to happen with the amount of rain on the fields and
:23:41. > :23:43.the Government was so slow to react. The county council got the
:23:44. > :23:48.boat going quickly but it was another four weeks nearly before the
:23:49. > :23:55.button was pressed for the major incident. Right on cue, the cavalry
:23:56. > :23:59.arrived in the shape of emergency crews from other parts of the UK.
:24:00. > :24:03.The rumour is that they will bring in a hovercraft but the bad news is
:24:04. > :24:10.that the weather is becoming more grim this weekend. There has been a
:24:11. > :24:14.surge in bookings at the campsite where people have seen the Somerset
:24:15. > :24:21.Levels on holiday and would like to come on holiday, if it ever stops
:24:22. > :24:26.raining. I'm delighted to say we have got the line back to Aberdeen,
:24:27. > :24:31.somebody has put a shilling in the meter. We can go back to Malcolm
:24:32. > :24:36.Bruce. We were talking about the Lib Dem women and your election, I
:24:37. > :24:45.suppose the point some people are making is that your party has as
:24:46. > :24:51.many knights in Parliament as it has women and you are one of them. The
:24:52. > :24:56.good news is that for the five MPs who are standing down, who have had
:24:57. > :25:02.candidates elected in their constituencies so far, all five
:25:03. > :25:07.candidates that have been selected are women. We need to fight hard to
:25:08. > :25:10.get behind those women and get them elected so that we have a much
:25:11. > :25:15.better balanced parliament in the future, but given that we have few
:25:16. > :25:22.women, you really have to pick people appropriate for the job and
:25:23. > :25:40.we have appointed the women as I have said but we need our image to
:25:41. > :25:44.be balanced. How many women candidates will there be come the
:25:45. > :25:50.next election? At the moment, 1 , five more than we have now, and we
:25:51. > :25:55.haven't finished selection. Where there are men sitting and standing
:25:56. > :25:59.again, that is not likely to change, but where they are standing down we
:26:00. > :26:06.are overwhelmingly choosing women, and in my view good and very able
:26:07. > :26:10.women. What I would want to say to people is that if you want to see
:26:11. > :26:21.the Lib Dems have more women, go to those seats and help us hold them.
:26:22. > :26:25.We are told that only 20% of the 57 seats have female candidates and in
:26:26. > :26:31.the unlikely event that you were able to hold onto them all, it still
:26:32. > :26:39.wouldn't be a sea change to have 20%. The point is you have to build
:26:40. > :26:43.them up. We are supporting female candidates. These are really good
:26:44. > :26:48.candidates who will make first-class MPs and I certainly believe you will
:26:49. > :26:53.gradually see the Liberal Democrats taking them on. We don't have 3 0
:26:54. > :27:01.seats that we currently hold like other parties, but what I can tell
:27:02. > :27:06.you is that increasing -- increasingly we will have female
:27:07. > :27:10.candidates. One newspaper has said that you will deal with the Chris
:27:11. > :27:15.Rennard fallout quickly and privately, what does that mean? It
:27:16. > :27:20.means I will not be telling you because these things are not helped
:27:21. > :27:24.by comments on the airwaves. I hope it will be possible to have a
:27:25. > :27:28.resolution without people going to court but I don't think it helps
:27:29. > :27:34.anybody for me to comment on any aspect of how this will be done and
:27:35. > :27:39.I'm not prepared to do so. If you are not in full possession of the
:27:40. > :27:45.facts, why did you say you will deal with this privately? I have come
:27:46. > :27:53.into this halfway through, I don't have full possession of the facts, I
:27:54. > :28:00.doubt you do, and we have a process that needs to be followed through.
:28:01. > :28:04.Any comments in public do not help. Isn't it hypocrisy of a high order
:28:05. > :28:10.to hear from a party that is constantly calling for transparency
:28:11. > :28:16.in other institutions but when it comes to your own, you say, I am not
:28:17. > :28:20.going to talk about it. There are all sorts of disputes that happen in
:28:21. > :28:25.the world and often people don't talk about them because talking
:28:26. > :28:29.about them aggravates the situation. I believe you have to
:28:30. > :28:33.deal with them privately and I don't think trial by media in this context
:28:34. > :28:36.is helpful and I don't believe that those who choose to make those
:28:37. > :28:42.comments are making it easier to solve them. There are problems in
:28:43. > :28:47.other walks of life and the Liberal Democrats are not the only ones with
:28:48. > :28:51.these problems. We are trying to change that culture and I think we
:28:52. > :28:56.will do it effectively in our own way. We have a pastoral care officer
:28:57. > :29:08.now and I think that is the right way to do it. Thank you for that.
:29:09. > :29:11.Let's now go back to the story of the flooding in Somerset. We are
:29:12. > :29:19.joined by the leader of the Green party, Natalie Bennett in Millbank.
:29:20. > :29:27.Natalie Bennett, don't the Green party bears some responsibility for
:29:28. > :29:31.these floods? You have sided with the Environment Agency in the
:29:32. > :29:37.decision not to dredge rivers and that is one of the reason why these
:29:38. > :29:45.places have been flooded. Firstly I want to give my sympathy to everyone
:29:46. > :29:52.dealing with these floods. The homeowners, the farmers seeing
:29:53. > :29:56.sodden fields for weeks and weeks. We get that, we all have huge
:29:57. > :30:01.sympathy, particularly because so little seems to be done to help
:30:02. > :30:05.them. What is the answer to my question? I think there is strong
:30:06. > :30:12.evidence that dredging is not the answer. If you think about the flow
:30:13. > :30:18.of the river, where the pinch points are is things like bridges, weirs
:30:19. > :30:22.and towns. If you dredge the river in between those barriers, you just
:30:23. > :30:27.make the water faster to those points. The experts are saying that
:30:28. > :30:31.dredging is not the answer, it may be in particular cases, but you have
:30:32. > :30:35.to look at each river system on its own merits and very often the best
:30:36. > :30:39.way of dealing with this is working out ways to slow the watered down
:30:40. > :30:46.and make sure that people don't suffer unduly while you are doing
:30:47. > :30:50.that. The west of England agricultural Society, which I would
:30:51. > :30:54.venture knows more about the Somerset Levels than either of us,
:30:55. > :30:58.has said that without dredging, this was a disaster waiting to happen.
:30:59. > :31:02.The local drainage boards have been calling for years for dredging to be
:31:03. > :31:07.resumed. The National Farmers' Union has called for it, and the chairman
:31:08. > :31:11.of the West Sussex flood defences has called for more drainage, and he
:31:12. > :31:14.is a drainage engineer by profession. So I don't know where
:31:15. > :31:22.your experts are, but the experts on the ground am not the urban ones in
:31:23. > :31:26.London, seem to think this has not been caused, but made worse by the
:31:27. > :31:30.failure of the Environment Agency to continue to dredge. If you look at
:31:31. > :31:34.the example of the planning and climate change coalition, which is
:31:35. > :31:38.led by the town and country planning Association, who you would not
:31:39. > :31:42.describe as a group of radical greens, these people have said we
:31:43. > :31:47.have to look at how we deal with flooding in the future. But not in
:31:48. > :31:50.Somerset. These are the people currently being flooded, not
:31:51. > :31:55.somebody sitting in a quango office in London. They have asked for this
:31:56. > :31:59.to happen and it hasn't, and they are now flooded in definitely. We
:32:00. > :32:03.have to look at what is happening on a case-by-case basis. If you look at
:32:04. > :32:08.Germany, there are many cases there were, to deal with flooding, many
:32:09. > :32:12.farmers are paid to hold water on their land. Maybe we need to
:32:13. > :32:18.introduce those systems, because we have to protect farmland, but we
:32:19. > :32:26.also have to protect urban areas for safety. We saw a horrible flood in
:32:27. > :32:32.Wales were lines were endangered -- where lives were endangered. That is
:32:33. > :32:35.the priority, to protect lives, property and farmland. Lives are
:32:36. > :32:40.endangered at the moment, particularly as this stagnant water
:32:41. > :32:44.turns toxic. And yet we are in a situation, again encouraged by the
:32:45. > :32:46.Greens and the lobbying Environment Agency, it says it does not want to
:32:47. > :32:53.dredge because dredging is expensive, yet it spends millions on
:32:54. > :32:57.a bird sanctuary. That is getting everything totally wrong. The
:32:58. > :33:01.government is getting everything one by cutting on flood defences. It has
:33:02. > :33:11.not cut on a bird sanctuaries. I don't know the details of that. But
:33:12. > :33:16.looking at the broader issue, we have to prepare for climate change.
:33:17. > :33:19.The government has slashed funding to the Environment Agency and has
:33:20. > :33:23.cut back on the number of staff available to deal with it and has
:33:24. > :33:27.removed the requirement on local councils to plan for climate change.
:33:28. > :33:32.These are all gambling the future of our lives and property and the
:33:33. > :33:38.future of our environment. Hasn t the high watermark of greenery now
:33:39. > :33:41.gone well past? You don't come out of the Somerset Levels with any
:33:42. > :33:46.great reputation. The UK government is now going to start fracking as
:33:47. > :33:52.quickly as it can. Brussels is loosening the CO2 obligations for
:33:53. > :33:56.2030. The President of America is about to give the go-ahead to the
:33:57. > :34:01.keystone pipeline, a totemic issue for American greens, and your party
:34:02. > :34:07.is in a state of civil war in Brighton. It is over, isn't it?
:34:08. > :34:13.Absolutely not. We are seeing large amounts of extreme weather around
:34:14. > :34:17.the world. Any one event is whether, but we are seeing a lot of it and
:34:18. > :34:21.people are recognising that climate change is happening. If we are going
:34:22. > :34:25.to quote international experts, I can quote to you Ban Ki-Moon, the UN
:34:26. > :34:29.Secretary-General, not known as a radical green, and he said after the
:34:30. > :34:33.IPCC report came out that the heat is on and we must act. If you go to
:34:34. > :34:36.Christine Lagarde, head of the International Monetary Fund, again
:34:37. > :34:41.not a radical green, she was asked what kept her awake at night, and
:34:42. > :34:44.she said, we are not doing enough about climate change. So actually,
:34:45. > :34:48.people around the world are looking at what is happening around them are
:34:49. > :34:54.both people on the ground and people in high positions are saying we have
:34:55. > :34:59.to act on climate change. And in the case of Britain, that should
:35:00. > :35:02.absolutely not mean fracking. Sorry to interrupt, but I have evidence
:35:03. > :35:06.that you are planning a little career change. Don't go away. This
:35:07. > :35:12.is what happens when you let Nigel Farage present the weather. One
:35:13. > :35:15.thing leads to another and low and behold, the Sunday Politics now has
:35:16. > :35:22.a new traffic and travel reporter. Let's go back to Green Party leader,
:35:23. > :35:27.Natalie Bennett. Thanks, Andrew It is easy out that, so let's start
:35:28. > :35:32.with our airports. I am pleased to say that Heathrow's third runway,
:35:33. > :35:38.Boris Island and all short-haul flights are, just like our
:35:39. > :35:45.arguments, well grounded. We suggest making or alternative arrangements,
:35:46. > :35:49.like a re-nationalised rail network, although it would be a
:35:50. > :35:52.glaring omission if we did not admit that that plan is currently being
:35:53. > :35:57.delayed by Labour Party foot dragging. Speaking of trains, we are
:35:58. > :36:04.hearing that high-speed two may well be derailing, or at least getting
:36:05. > :36:07.bogged down in political fog. One viewer, Ed Balls, has texted in to
:36:08. > :36:12.say he is completely lost. Thanks for the update, Ed. You are not
:36:13. > :36:20.alone among political commuters Meanwhile, dumped UKIP manifestoes
:36:21. > :36:24.are causing major tailbacks across the South, apparently stretching all
:36:25. > :36:30.the way to Brussels. This does make driving road tricky, but UKIP's MEPs
:36:31. > :36:38.can, of course, just hop on their gravy train. The tree had a
:36:39. > :36:45.roundabout is blocked after reports of a political earthquake. It seems
:36:46. > :36:48.that a green unwound his beard to block a dodgy gas extractor. A
:36:49. > :36:52.motorist who turned out to be the environment minister object into the
:36:53. > :36:58.delay and was told to frack off as furious badgers demanded that he
:36:59. > :37:02.stopped moving the goalposts. Unregulated traffic in the city of
:37:03. > :37:09.London continues unchecked. Pedestrians should try to block
:37:10. > :37:15.bankers with sacks of loot rushing for the payments. But do beware the
:37:16. > :37:21.Lib Dem Exodus that is clogging up the motorways. Although they are in
:37:22. > :37:25.a jam, or is it a fudge, we are happy to make way for them, as, like
:37:26. > :37:33.all refugees, we say they are welcome here in muesli green. That
:37:34. > :37:37.is the travel. Back to you, Andrew. Natalie, I think you make my point.
:37:38. > :37:42.You are now preparing a new career in traffic and travel. Well, I do
:37:43. > :37:46.believe in lifelong education and that was an example of it. We know
:37:47. > :37:54.you have had a tough time today to get to our studio. Thank you for the
:37:55. > :37:58.effort. You are watching the Sunday
:37:59. > :38:07.Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, we will have more
:38:08. > :38:16.Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in the North West...
:38:17. > :38:22.The battle of the sexes. But how do we get more women elected to
:38:23. > :38:30.Westminster? All`women short list delivered, which is why Labour have
:38:31. > :38:33.more women MPs. A macro `` I am glad to have gone through a process that
:38:34. > :38:36.was very even. And joining us this week, one of the
:38:37. > :38:39.most successful women on the government benches. Esther McVey.
:38:40. > :38:42.She's the Employment Minister and Conservative MP for Wirral West And
:38:43. > :38:45.Stephen Twigg, the Labour MP for Liverpool West Derby and Shadow
:38:46. > :38:49.Minister for Constitutional Reform. Esther, since we spoke to you last,
:38:50. > :38:57.you are promoted to Minister for State, has life changed for you
:38:58. > :39:06.Yes, more things to do, more things under your brief, lots of pressures,
:39:07. > :39:11.what have you, on your shoulders, working hard, putting in lots of
:39:12. > :39:15.hours. A lot of ministers have said that there is a big difference going
:39:16. > :39:21.up to Minister for State, that you notice you are taking much more
:39:22. > :39:25.seriously, is that true? Possibly, maybe you are of more interest doing
:39:26. > :39:30.more in your brief. Realise you might have had a certain brief as
:39:31. > :39:35.Minister for disabled people. More people looking at you for more
:39:36. > :39:42.reasons now. But it is all difficult, sensitive stuff, do it as
:39:43. > :39:47.best you can, put in as much effort. Stephen, sadly, you are no longer in
:39:48. > :39:55.the Shadow Cabinet, why did you decide to stick around and remain in
:39:56. > :39:59.the team? I was asked to put on the job as shadowing political and was
:40:00. > :40:03.in the form, which I was keen to do, and next week, I am involved in
:40:04. > :40:08.national voter registration day a big challenge to get more people
:40:09. > :40:15.onto the voter register particularly young people. OK.
:40:16. > :40:19.The government was pressing the case again this week to decrease the
:40:20. > :40:22.journey time by train. But don't worry, we're not about to discuss
:40:23. > :40:25.HS2 again. Instead it's the increasing economic gap between the
:40:26. > :40:28.North West and London that's an issue, according to a report by the
:40:29. > :40:31.Centre for Cities. But there were also some bright spots, as Euan Doak
:40:32. > :40:35.reports. Being in the slow lane is not
:40:36. > :40:38.something they are used to at Briggs motor company. Makers of specialist
:40:39. > :40:45.sports cars, they moved to Liverpool because of the skills and expertise
:40:46. > :40:48.on offer. There are individuals with previous new model launch
:40:49. > :40:55.experience, such as with Jaguar Land Rover. And also motor sports
:40:56. > :40:58.specialist is also within the North West and Liverpool city region as
:40:59. > :41:01.well. Although unemployment remains high, Liverpool is among the top ten
:41:02. > :41:04.creators of private sector jobs along with Manchester and
:41:05. > :41:12.Warrington. But London still accounted for 80% of private sector
:41:13. > :41:15.growth between 2010 and 1012. `` jobs between 2010 and 2012. The
:41:16. > :41:23.report says our cities are punching below their weight. The more diverse
:41:24. > :41:27.you are, if you are well connected, as it'll and digital connections,
:41:28. > :41:33.good leadership, good quality of place, the things that make places
:41:34. > :41:35.successful. `` physical and digital connections. One of the most
:41:36. > :41:39.successful is Warrington. It's in the top ten for business start`ups
:41:40. > :41:42.in the country. It has the third highest rate of employment and the
:41:43. > :41:46.10th highest average weekly earnings. We are in a good place,
:41:47. > :41:50.near motorways, the airport, which has been of benefit, good
:41:51. > :41:54.infrastructure, railway links are good, the economy is based on
:41:55. > :41:59.science, education system is good, leading into the start`ups and all
:42:00. > :42:03.that go with that. But whilst Warrington seems to be going in the
:42:04. > :42:07.right direction, other areas find it tougher. Burnley is one of only two
:42:08. > :42:10.macro towns in the country where population is falling and, along
:42:11. > :42:13.with Blackburn, has some of the Buddhist educational achievements in
:42:14. > :42:16.the country. Better connections financial flexibility and good
:42:17. > :42:21.leadership can help a town. Is that enough for people in Burnley? When
:42:22. > :42:28.you have that new really link into Manchester, if I had my way, by
:42:29. > :42:34.2030, it would go down to London. Notes shortage of talent, just the
:42:35. > :42:38.sort judge of jobs to suit that talent. `` no shortage of talent,
:42:39. > :42:42.just as shortage of jobs. London remains the economic powerhouse of
:42:43. > :42:46.the country, in a virtuous cycle of wealth and job creation. This report
:42:47. > :42:52.says similar powers for the cities or the region would help them
:42:53. > :42:55.compete. And we're also joined by Professor
:42:56. > :42:57.Alan Harding, who specialises in urban regeneration at Liverpool
:42:58. > :42:59.University's new Heseltine Institute. Named, of course, after
:43:00. > :43:05.the Conservative Minister Michael Heseltine who championed the city's
:43:06. > :43:09.revamp in the 80s. Allen, good to have you back, what is the most
:43:10. > :43:14.significant bit that comes out of this report, about the widening gap
:43:15. > :43:20.with London? Maybe not the most significant, important to all of
:43:21. > :43:25.this is the fact that major cities, our biggest cities, are beginning to
:43:26. > :43:30.recover from a very tough time. It remains a fact that London is doing
:43:31. > :43:36.an awful lot better, certainly on the indicators in the reports, than
:43:37. > :43:42.the rest of the country. Yar cities doing so well given we have been
:43:43. > :43:45.through very turbulent times economically `` yar cities doing so
:43:46. > :43:53.well? Why is it different from the 80s? Times are different, we are
:43:54. > :43:56.much further on in a very statue restructuring of the economy, and
:43:57. > :44:01.all the pointers, both in the UK and internationally, is that it is the
:44:02. > :44:09.big dens connected cities that will be the places that create the most
:44:10. > :44:15.jobs in the future. `` big dense cities. Although there are still
:44:16. > :44:22.problems with in employment and lack of skills. I see the city is
:44:23. > :44:26.powering ahead, but we have a number of residual problems to do with the
:44:27. > :44:30.massive restructuring we have gone through, which is about people
:44:31. > :44:34.having the skills and capacity to access the jobs there will be. What
:44:35. > :44:44.about the problem places, like Armley and Blackburn? How can they
:44:45. > :44:48.be helped? Like Burnley? We have to be selective about how we look at
:44:49. > :44:52.the economy, and it has to be based on big cities and the areas
:44:53. > :44:57.connected, so some of the real success stories in the report are
:44:58. > :45:01.areas on the fringe of London. I do not think it is what they are doing
:45:02. > :45:06.independently, it is the London effect washing over to places like
:45:07. > :45:12.Aldershot. If we had a more parcel Manchester or Liverpool, places like
:45:13. > :45:16.Burnley, if people had the right skills and they were better
:45:17. > :45:21.connected, they would benefit. Stephen, are you surprised to see
:45:22. > :45:24.those private sector jobs are being created at that rate? Manchester the
:45:25. > :45:30.fourth desk, Liverpool the fifth best. You are telling us there would
:45:31. > :45:37.be major problems. I am delighted about it. A lot of it is leadership,
:45:38. > :45:43.and Joe Anderson as may love `` as Mayor of Liverpool, that has been
:45:44. > :45:47.absolutely crucial. `year`old but there were said to be problems with
:45:48. > :45:54.the public sector cuts and devastation to the cities.
:45:55. > :45:57.Banks to people like Joe, it is not as bad as it might have been. But
:45:58. > :46:01.there is concern about the next phase of cuts that will hit cities
:46:02. > :46:08.like Liverpool, Manchester, Lancashire, so I still worry that
:46:09. > :46:13.some of this positive work in the private sector will be undermined by
:46:14. > :46:19.decisions made by Esther and her colleagues in London. What do you
:46:20. > :46:23.make of this report? I found this report interesting, reading all of
:46:24. > :46:29.the reports, and of course London is a key driver, but so are other
:46:30. > :46:37.cities, if you look at 50 billion in Manchester, give these places
:46:38. > :46:41.freedoms, allow them to do what they need to do locally, but that support
:46:42. > :46:45.from government to allow them to do that. This report is slightly out of
:46:46. > :46:49.date, going up to 2012, and that is why we brought in the city deals
:46:50. > :46:55.after that to say, here is money and support, how you can do what you
:46:56. > :47:01.need to do locally. Manchester has 1.2 billion package together to get
:47:02. > :47:05.tax rebates from that. And you believe these cities can do well and
:47:06. > :47:12.create those jobs even if the public sector and local government is
:47:13. > :47:18.becoming much weaker? It is rebalanced, however you want to see
:47:19. > :47:25.that, and since 2010, one .7 million new privates vector jobs have been
:47:26. > :47:29.made, many outside London. And there has been a rebalancing, losing some
:47:30. > :47:34.of the people from the public sector, moving to the private
:47:35. > :47:39.sector, but it is 1.3 million more people in jobs. We have a record
:47:40. > :47:44.high of over 30 million all stop Labour said we would lose 1 million,
:47:45. > :47:50.and we have done that is verse `` done the reverse. There is less
:47:51. > :47:55.money for local government, hitting Liverpool, Manchester, the Wirral,
:47:56. > :47:57.much harder, and in some parts of the country, such as Surrey, the
:47:58. > :48:02.amount of money from central government is going up, when
:48:03. > :48:08.Liverpool, Manchester, other authorities, have to make difficult
:48:09. > :48:10.decisions. It is fantastic Liverpool and Manchester have apprenticeship
:48:11. > :48:17.programmes, school building, house`building, and I support the
:48:18. > :48:22.city deal, but it is being undermined. Professor Harding
:48:23. > :48:26.mentioned those long`term structural problems, such as in places like
:48:27. > :48:34.Blackburn, like Dublin this report, is there a future for those? `` like
:48:35. > :48:39.said in this report. My heart is in the North West, and talking about
:48:40. > :48:44.cuts in different regions, Liverpool Pier Head has one of the highest at
:48:45. > :48:53.?300 per head, and might only be ?40 per head in Surrey, meaning they can
:48:54. > :49:00.get more. And they can raise more from wealthier people in that
:49:01. > :49:03.county. What we have to do is put this infrastructure in. Liverpool is
:49:04. > :49:09.bidding for money, as had two sets of money, and we want to see what
:49:10. > :49:14.has happened in London with those freedoms and flexibility is being
:49:15. > :49:20.moved up to these key cities. What can you do to help these other
:49:21. > :49:24.cities? What we have seen from London is it going out to the
:49:25. > :49:28.surrounding regions. And if we do that, which we have seen at
:49:29. > :49:34.Manchester, look at Salford, look at media city, it's infrastructure
:49:35. > :49:39.support, and we are getting things right, as the fastest`growing
:49:40. > :49:47.economy. And much more of a focus on education. Absolutely. And thank you
:49:48. > :49:51.to Alan Harding. Asked once why she was never Prime
:49:52. > :49:53.Minister, the former Blackburn MP Barbara Castle replied, "They
:49:54. > :49:56.wouldn't have me, darling, because I'm a woman." Well, she did pretty
:49:57. > :50:00.well. But women are still under`represented in the Commons.
:50:01. > :50:03.Mind you, there will definitely be another woman in Blackburn to
:50:04. > :50:06.replace Jack Straw, because Labour's imposed an all`women short list
:50:07. > :50:11.there. Naomi Cornwell has been gauging how they're going down.
:50:12. > :50:14.I would never, with my political and trade union history, stand`up at
:50:15. > :50:22.this place and advocate anything that undermined the trade union
:50:23. > :50:26.rights `` undermined free rights. Barbara Castle was a pioneer for
:50:27. > :50:30.women in politics. Both in Cabinet and as the MP for Blackburn for more
:50:31. > :50:33.than 30 years. But Labour's introduction of women only short
:50:34. > :50:39.lists in 1997 took even her by surprise. I was rather shocked at
:50:40. > :50:45.the time. But so long as it was a short`term shove, I thought it was
:50:46. > :50:50.right. But not as anything that should continue. I am against a
:50:51. > :50:53.system of quotas. Now her successor Jack Straw is standing down, and the
:50:54. > :50:59.next Labour candidate is guaranteed to be female thanks to an all`women
:51:00. > :51:02.short list. But every man who feels the donor is being closed, there is
:51:03. > :51:10.a woman who feels it is being opened. I understand the issue, but
:51:11. > :51:17.in the end, if we want to make progress, we have to take positive
:51:18. > :51:20.action. They have chosen to do that and Blackburn. I'm not complaining.
:51:21. > :51:23.In neighbouring Rossendale and Darwen, Jack Straw's son is
:51:24. > :51:26.competing for the constituency. Even if he'd wanted to follow in his
:51:27. > :51:29.father's footsteps, he couldn't have applied to be the Blackburn
:51:30. > :51:34.candidate. But here they had an open selection process. I think, if you
:51:35. > :51:39.want to have equal representation between men and women, you need to
:51:40. > :51:43.have all`women short list in some seats, and Labour said it will do
:51:44. > :51:48.that in 50%, or it is fear it will happen in some places. Back to two
:51:49. > :51:52.has had a male MP for 35 years, probably time for women. ``
:51:53. > :51:56.Blackburn has had a male MP. And it's a strategy they're trying in
:51:57. > :51:59.other parts of the region too. Here in the constituency of Lancaster and
:52:00. > :52:03.Fleetwood, the Conservatives won the seat at the last election with a
:52:04. > :52:06.majority of just 333 votes. So Labour think they have a strong
:52:07. > :52:09.chance of taking it. And they're hoping to do so with a candidate
:52:10. > :52:12.chosen from an all`women short list. Labour is the only party that has
:52:13. > :52:16.found something that will work. All`women short list the liver,
:52:17. > :52:20.which is why Labour has more women MPs than any other parties put
:52:21. > :52:26.together. `` all women short lists deliver. Need to have more women MPs
:52:27. > :52:30.showing there is a different way of doing politics, as women operate
:52:31. > :52:33.slightly differently to men. That is a generalisation. The Conservatives
:52:34. > :52:38.haven't adopted the same approach. Cheadle is one of their key target
:52:39. > :52:42.marginals. They need a swing of 3% to win it from the Liberal
:52:43. > :52:46.Democrats. And the Conservative candidate is a woman. But she's
:52:47. > :52:50.competed against men for the job. I was up against a man who was very
:52:51. > :52:54.successful in being selected elsewhere, so from my point of view,
:52:55. > :53:00.it is good to know I went through a process that was very even and, at
:53:01. > :53:03.the end of it, to be selected in that way. So I prefer that process.
:53:04. > :53:07.Things have definitely changed since Barbara Castle first entered
:53:08. > :53:12.Parliament. And many are, like her, uncomfortable with the idea of all
:53:13. > :53:16.female short lists. But with women only accounting for 20 of the North
:53:17. > :53:19.West's 72 MPs, all the parties agree that more needs to be done before
:53:20. > :53:27.those representing us really reflect our region.
:53:28. > :53:30.Labour has selected Mike Kane to fight the Wythenshawe and Sale East
:53:31. > :53:34.by`election. He was the only man on a short list of five. At his
:53:35. > :53:37.campaign launch, I caught up with Labour's Deputy Leader Harriet
:53:38. > :53:40.Harman, who's been at the forefront of getting more women elected. I
:53:41. > :53:45.asked her what she thought about the local party's choice. I'd think they
:53:46. > :53:49.have picked the best person to stand for labour. But if this was an all
:53:50. > :53:55.women short list, they would not have been able to select the best
:53:56. > :54:01.candidate? We are supposed to have a representative democracy. When I was
:54:02. > :54:06.first elected in the 1980s, only 3% of the House of Commons was women.
:54:07. > :54:11.And there was really not a strong voice of women MPs speaking out for
:54:12. > :54:14.women, so we had to have more women MPs and the only way we have been
:54:15. > :54:21.able to do that is with all`women short list. It is uncomfortable
:54:22. > :54:24.because no one wants to dictate to the local party, but once we get
:54:25. > :54:32.equal numbers of women and men in Parliament, you will not need these
:54:33. > :54:35.all`women short lists. Can I ask you about another constituency,
:54:36. > :54:41.Blackburn, Jack Straw standing down, agreed there should be a short list
:54:42. > :54:45.of all women. But that means Asian men cannot stand and you could stand
:54:46. > :54:50.that they are very underrepresented in the House of Commons? We have
:54:51. > :54:59.more black and Asian MPs than all the other parties put together. Have
:55:00. > :55:05.you got enough? no, we need more, and more minority, ethnic, women and
:55:06. > :55:11.men, from all communities. But it is a double`edged sword that, by having
:55:12. > :55:18.more women, you cannot have enough black or Asian men. We could have a
:55:19. > :55:23.woman from any black ground `` from any background. It is wrong to set
:55:24. > :55:28.one group against another. It is not right to say we should set Asian men
:55:29. > :55:32.against Asian women or Asian men against other women. We need to
:55:33. > :55:37.improve our representation, so that people can look at Parliament and
:55:38. > :55:41.realise it is in touch with their lives. Esther, I am sure you would
:55:42. > :55:44.like to see more women elected. Is the conclusion we should draw is
:55:45. > :55:50.that the approach of labour is the only one that works? Not the only
:55:51. > :55:55.approach that works, but we need more women in Parliament. We have to
:55:56. > :56:01.represent, sorry reflect the women and the people we represent. And
:56:02. > :56:06.what we have seen is that, in the 2010 election, the Conservatives
:56:07. > :56:11.doubled the number of female MPs... But nowhere near as the Labour
:56:12. > :56:15.Party? You are right, but through mentoring, reaching out, changing
:56:16. > :56:20.hours to make it family friendly, all those things are key. And you
:56:21. > :56:24.have to think about the constituencies and associations
:56:25. > :56:30.picking the person, who must feel they have said. What we did at last
:56:31. > :56:37.election was have an A list, and make sure it was 50`50
:56:38. > :56:43.representation, and it is in the population, so we need more women,
:56:44. > :56:48.but many things, not just all`women short lists. Not just those short
:56:49. > :56:55.lists, but our experience was those short lists made the difference so
:56:56. > :57:02.no 33% of Labour MPs is a women It is one in six of conservatives and
:57:03. > :57:06.just a handful of live dams. `` of Lib Dems. We have strong women
:57:07. > :57:09.coming through. And the suggestion that being selected from an all
:57:10. > :57:13.women short list they are not as good is not borne out by the
:57:14. > :57:19.evidence. What about the issue, and we have Barbara Castle calling this
:57:20. > :57:24.a short`term shove, but this seems to be an entrenched position. How
:57:25. > :57:29.could you move away from it? This was first done in the run`up to the
:57:30. > :57:32.1997 election, and a legal case stopping it done in subsequent
:57:33. > :57:37.parliaments. This is the third or fourth time it is attempted. When we
:57:38. > :57:43.get to 50%, we could reconsider I want a parliament that reflect
:57:44. > :57:48.society as a whole, more black, ethnic minorities, and also more
:57:49. > :57:53.working class backgrounds going into Parliament. The main point is the
:57:54. > :57:58.proof of the pudding is that the one thing that has led to an increase of
:57:59. > :58:03.women MPs is all women short lists. Esther, you spoke about giving
:58:04. > :58:07.people locally in the party a say. By David Cameron is getting the
:58:08. > :58:13.stated they the not selecting women when given the opportunity. Be
:58:14. > :58:23.selected me. In the world, we have three women MPs. `` they selected
:58:24. > :58:27.me. And in the Wirral. We need more women, more diversity across the
:58:28. > :58:32.board. But equally, people representing have to say, we believe
:58:33. > :58:40.we've got the best person for that job. And the MP has two find that.
:58:41. > :58:44.We do not believe the short lists are the answer. We have more
:58:45. > :58:51.fundamental places, like the mentoring, support, shadowing,
:58:52. > :58:57.expectations about what the job entails, changing the hours, all of
:58:58. > :59:01.these things are as key. I work with lots of kids, because when people
:59:02. > :59:05.talk about role models, you need to see more women. And which was the
:59:06. > :59:10.only party that gave you a female Prime Minister? Conservative Party.
:59:11. > :59:15.Time for a look at what else has been happening this week in 60
:59:16. > :59:19.Seconds. Greater Manchester's Police Commissioner is asking council tax
:59:20. > :59:23.payers for an extra fiver to help combat budget cuts. Tony Lloyd said
:59:24. > :59:25.he's standing on the edge of a cliff.
:59:26. > :59:28.A compulsive gambler, who tried to ban himself from betting shops,
:59:29. > :59:31.wants tighter regulation. Alex Woolliscroft left photos with
:59:32. > :59:41.bookies asking them to turn him away, but says none did. Like a drug
:59:42. > :59:48.addict gets there are scored, my school is spinning the roulette
:59:49. > :59:51.wheel. `` `` my score. A judge said that Blackpool Council
:59:52. > :59:54.may have been vindictive in the way it dealt with a lawyer who kept
:59:55. > :59:57.winning compensation for slips, trips and falls. The council had
:59:58. > :00:00.refused to renew Joanna Trafford's lease.
:00:01. > :00:03.The Mayor of Liverpool asked for a report on crowd control before the
:00:04. > :00:07.Merseyside Derby. Some Everton fans said there was a crush at the gates.
:00:08. > :00:09.The police said more than a thousand arrived late.
:00:10. > :00:13.And a total of seven candidates have thrown their hat into the ring for
:00:14. > :00:18.the by`election in Sale East and Wythenshawe. The vote takes place on
:00:19. > :00:23.February the 13th. Esther, what do you make of Tony
:00:24. > :00:28.Lloyd putting up his bit of council tax to pay for policing? I believe
:00:29. > :00:32.in localism and if he feels he needs to do that, he needs to explain it
:00:33. > :00:35.to council tax payers, but at the same time measured up that we have
:00:36. > :00:41.had a record fall in crime under the stewards took off Theresa May `` the
:00:42. > :00:48.stewardship of Theresa May and balance that up. `year`old Stephen?
:00:49. > :00:52.We have had cuts going to Merseyside, and understand it is
:00:53. > :00:58.being looked at. Protecting the public against crime has to be a
:00:59. > :01:00.priority. Thank you both very much. Note to hand you back to Andrew Neil
:01:01. > :01:05.in London. Not a complete denial! Hopefully a
:01:06. > :01:18.Conservative mayor again. Not a good week for David Cameron on
:01:19. > :01:22.the tricky European front last week. President Hollande said he was not
:01:23. > :01:26.interested in major treaty reform for 2017. That is when Mr Cameron
:01:27. > :01:29.hopes to hold his in-out referendum. And the private member's bill to put
:01:30. > :01:34.that referendum on the statute bill was killed by Labour and Lib Dem
:01:35. > :01:41.peers in the Lords. James Wharton was the Tory MP behind the bill and
:01:42. > :01:46.he joins me now. What happens now? It is out of my hands what happens
:01:47. > :01:51.now, because Labour and the Liberal Democrats conspired in the Lords to
:01:52. > :01:54.kill off my bill. One of the options is for another private member to
:01:55. > :01:58.bring a bill forward when they have the next private member's bill at,
:01:59. > :02:02.and we can try again. The prime minister has indicated that he will
:02:03. > :02:08.support that. But whatever happens, it will be in the Conservative
:02:09. > :02:13.manifesto at the next election. Do you accept that cost this is Tory
:02:14. > :02:17.policy and not government policy that the government policy elite
:02:18. > :02:22.macro cannot bring forward a bill? That is the problem. The Liberal
:02:23. > :02:25.Democrats, despite having promised a referendum in their manifesto at the
:02:26. > :02:30.last election, now will not allow government time for a bill to
:02:31. > :02:34.enshrine that in law. That was why I brought it forward as a private
:02:35. > :02:37.member's bill. David Cameron and the Conservative Party through
:02:38. > :02:41.everything behind that. To many people's surprise, we got it through
:02:42. > :02:45.all the House of Commons stages Sadly, to their discredit, Labour
:02:46. > :02:50.and Liberal Democrat peers, doing the bidding of their masters in the
:02:51. > :02:54.Commons, is conspired to kill it. Do you accept that it is Conservative
:02:55. > :02:58.policy, but not government policy, that you could not use the
:02:59. > :03:02.Parliament act to get this through the Lords? That is not the case The
:03:03. > :03:06.Parliament act is clear that if a public bill passes through the House
:03:07. > :03:11.of Commons twice in one Parliamentary period, there is a
:03:12. > :03:14.certain amount of time that has to be between both bills being
:03:15. > :03:18.presented. There are some procedural steps to be overcome, but there is
:03:19. > :03:22.no legal reason why the Parliament act could not come into effect. I
:03:23. > :03:27.was talking about you not having a majority in this case. That remains
:03:28. > :03:31.to be seen. We saw previously that Labour and the Liberal Democrats
:03:32. > :03:35.sent enough people to frustrate its progress to make it as difficult as
:03:36. > :03:40.possible, but not huge numbers to vote against it. On a Friday, huge
:03:41. > :03:46.numbers of MPs do not attend normally. Getting that number might
:03:47. > :03:51.prove difficult. The Parliament act, which is a bit of an atomic bomb in
:03:52. > :03:55.constitutional terms, if that was used, they would turn up to vote
:03:56. > :04:01.against you. Is it not the case that after the countryside Alliance tried
:04:02. > :04:06.to involve the courts in the hunting ban that it was made clear that the
:04:07. > :04:12.Parliament act was not to be used for constitutional issues? I don't
:04:13. > :04:16.think we know how many would turn up and we don't know how they would
:04:17. > :04:19.vote. One of the things that has been revealed as I have gone through
:04:20. > :04:23.the process of getting this bill to get a referendum through the Commons
:04:24. > :04:27.is that there are big splits in the Labour Party. One of the reasons we
:04:28. > :04:30.did not see them turning up in large numbers to stop this bill from
:04:31. > :04:33.happening was that Ed Miliband knew that if he tried to lead his own MPs
:04:34. > :04:39.through the lobbies to block a bill, the only purpose of which is
:04:40. > :04:44.to let Britain decides to give people a say on membership of the
:04:45. > :04:47.union, a lot of his MPs may not have followed him. It is all fantasy
:04:48. > :04:52.politics anyway. The French president has made clear that he has
:04:53. > :04:58.no interest in treaty change this side of 2017. He would need a
:04:59. > :05:03.referendum as well . And he needs that like a hole and had. Merkel is
:05:04. > :05:06.not keen, as she is in coalition with the social Democrats. Without
:05:07. > :05:14.the French or the Germans, it will not happen, end of story. The policy
:05:15. > :05:18.is that we will try to negotiate on getting a better deal. I hear what
:05:19. > :05:22.you are saying, but I don't recognise it as reality. We have a
:05:23. > :05:25.strong bargaining position. But whatever the result of that
:05:26. > :05:30.negotiation, it will be put in an in-out vote to the Britain people.
:05:31. > :05:34.It is time people were allowed to decide. It has been over a
:05:35. > :05:38.generation since we last had a say. David Cameron has committed to
:05:39. > :05:41.delivering that referendum. The Conservative Party will have it in
:05:42. > :05:46.our next manifesto for the election. Whatever happens to my bill or any
:05:47. > :05:49.other of the bill that comes forward. If people want a
:05:50. > :05:56.referendum, the only party that can deliver that in British politics is
:05:57. > :06:01.the Conservatives. Let me bring the panel in. Nick, where is this going?
:06:02. > :06:03.It is clear to me and anyone who follows European politics that there
:06:04. > :06:07.is no appetite for major treaty change in the short run,
:06:08. > :06:12.particularly for the kind of major changes that Vista Cameron says he
:06:13. > :06:17.is going to get, and yet the Tories are talking about Europe again when
:06:18. > :06:19.they should be talking about the economy. And Francois Hollande is
:06:20. > :06:24.looking at 2017, the year we are meant to have this referendum. There
:06:25. > :06:28.will be a French presidential election going on, and Nicolas
:06:29. > :06:34.Sarkozy will be back in play by then. But James has an interesting
:06:35. > :06:39.point, which is that it is down to Angela Merkel. She would be more
:06:40. > :06:43.receptive to David Cameron's ideas of reform than people assume. She
:06:44. > :06:48.has looked over the edge at a Europe without the UK and said, that is not
:06:49. > :06:52.acceptable, and I am willing to pay a price, not any price, but a price
:06:53. > :06:57.to keep the UK in the European Union. And the French, because the
:06:58. > :07:01.UK and France are the only serious military powers in Europe, will
:07:02. > :07:07.eventually come to that position. So there is more support for David
:07:08. > :07:10.Cameron than people assume. The French are also not a strong
:07:11. > :07:19.position in terms of the euro and French economy. The Foreign Office
:07:20. > :07:29.seem a bit more optimistic about it. Of course they are. Douglas Hurd
:07:30. > :07:32.once told me, we are winning the arguments on the single currency. Of
:07:33. > :07:36.course anything from the Foreign Office comes with a health warning,
:07:37. > :07:40.but if David Cameron had won a majority and was determined to
:07:41. > :07:45.renegotiate, he is in a strong position with Merkel. There is a
:07:46. > :07:49.possibility that the French could eventually be talked around. So it
:07:50. > :07:55.is not entirely bleak on that front for Cameron. When do the Tory party
:07:56. > :08:01.managers say, look, stop banging on about Europe again? The economy is
:08:02. > :08:04.going away. We still have an electoral mountain to climb. Let's
:08:05. > :08:09.just talk about that and not be divided. They should have done that
:08:10. > :08:15.some time ago. It is already too late. The Tories need a seven point
:08:16. > :08:20.lead in the polls to get image are tea. The way things are, that would
:08:21. > :08:24.require a huge change from where we are now . It is very unlikely to
:08:25. > :08:33.happen. So all this is happening in some bizarre imaginary space with
:08:34. > :08:39.wonderful rainbows and sunshine But we can detect the beginnings of a
:08:40. > :08:44.shift in the last couple of weeks. If you talk to Tory backbenchers,
:08:45. > :08:48.Douglas Carswell is now saying in public that it is time to stop the
:08:49. > :08:56.fighting. If they are to get even close to winning the election, they
:08:57. > :09:01.can't do it if they are all against each other. I don't think it is an
:09:02. > :09:06.imaginary space. It is likely that David Cameron will have the largest
:09:07. > :09:09.party in the election. If it is a hung parliament and it is the
:09:10. > :09:13.Liberal Democrats and the Conservative Party, David Cameron
:09:14. > :09:16.will save to Nick Clegg we gave you an AV referendum, I am having this
:09:17. > :09:22.referendum. And it will be difficult for Nick to say no. Let me go back
:09:23. > :09:27.to Mr Wharton. You are going to get a referendum in the manifesto. Other
:09:28. > :09:31.than Ken Clarke, everybody wants it. So why don't you just banked that
:09:32. > :09:36.and get behind the leadership Institute causing endless problems
:09:37. > :09:40.and coming across as a Europe accessed, divided party? I am
:09:41. > :09:45.absolutely behind the leadership. David Cameron announced the policy I
:09:46. > :09:51.am trying to bring forward in this bill. It is in line with the speech
:09:52. > :09:57.he gave this time last year. But getting that commitment into law
:09:58. > :10:04.will help to kick-start the negotiation process and mean
:10:05. > :10:06.everyone will know where we stand. But whatever happens, the
:10:07. > :10:10.Conservatives are committed to delivering a referendum. And to
:10:11. > :10:14.address the point that we talk about Europe too much, that is not the
:10:15. > :10:20.case. We have a good message on the economy, on tackling immigration and
:10:21. > :10:26.reforming welfare. There is more to do, but this is also an important
:10:27. > :10:32.part of policy. But at a time when the economic news seems to be
:10:33. > :10:36.turning in your direction, you are talking about the European
:10:37. > :10:39.referendum. Your backbench colleagues are trying to change the
:10:40. > :10:44.Immigration Bill every which way. Dominic Rather is putting in an
:10:45. > :10:50.amendment is and Mr Nigel Mills has been on this programme, putting in
:10:51. > :10:54.amendments that are clearly illegal. How is that helpful? The fact is
:10:55. > :10:56.that we are in a coalition, so there are areas of policy where
:10:57. > :11:03.Conservatives might want to go further and we are not able to do
:11:04. > :11:06.that. In other areas, we are delivering good reforms. But this is
:11:07. > :11:13.not a matter of going further. The mill 's amendment was clearly a
:11:14. > :11:17.contravention of the Treaty of Rome. That is where you get the headlines
:11:18. > :11:22.from. Some of your colleagues have a death wish? Would they rather have a
:11:23. > :11:27.Miliband government if the choice is an impure Cameron one instead? I
:11:28. > :11:32.don't think anyone in their right mind would rather have a Miliband
:11:33. > :11:37.government. Then why are they behaving that way? We have had some
:11:38. > :11:42.disagreements into the leak and debate within the party, but it was
:11:43. > :11:46.talked about on the panel just now. The Conservative Party is behind
:11:47. > :11:50.David Cameron and focused on winning the next election. Europe is one
:11:51. > :11:56.part of that. We have policies in a range of areas, but we are getting
:11:57. > :12:02.back on the right track. Thank you for being patient with us.
:12:03. > :12:06.Is this ghost story going to go somewhere? Mr Laws is talking
:12:07. > :12:12.through surrogates at the moment, but there is a strategy by the Lib
:12:13. > :12:19.Dems make these differential points now. I think it is fantastic
:12:20. > :12:23.coalition sports and entertaining, but in terms of out there, it has
:12:24. > :12:28.almost no traction whatsoever. I don't think any voters know who
:12:29. > :12:30.Baroness Morgan is and it sounds like one but politicians shouting at
:12:31. > :12:35.another bunch of politicians about their ability to give each other
:12:36. > :12:40.jobs. There is a larger point about the way Michael Gove runs his
:12:41. > :12:44.government. He is notoriously a very polite man surrounded by Rottweiler
:12:45. > :12:48.is, his advisers. He has made enemies of a lot of people in the
:12:49. > :12:52.media, and some of that will come back on him in the next 18 months.
:12:53. > :12:56.We shall see if Mr Laws himself sticks his head above the parapet.
:12:57. > :13:01.That is it for this week. The Daily Politics is on throughout the week
:13:02. > :13:06.at midday on BBC Two, except on Wednesdays, when we are on at
:13:07. > :13:08.11:30am. I will be back next week at the same time. Remember, if it is
:13:09. > :13:15.Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.