:00:38. > :00:46.morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water,
:00:47. > :00:50.a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take
:00:51. > :00:56.control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry?
:00:57. > :00:59.Embarrassment for the Government is the Immigration Minister resigns
:01:00. > :01:04.after he discovered he was employing a cleaner with no right to work here
:01:05. > :01:09.for seven years. Ed Miliband promised an end to what he called
:01:10. > :01:16.the machine politics of union fixes in the Labour Party,
:01:17. > :01:21.And in the North West: Putting themselves in the shop window for
:01:22. > :01:22.Westminster. Who's going to be our newest MP? Four candidates
:01:23. > :01:27.In London after two days of disruption in the capital the Mayor
:01:28. > :01:37.Boris Johnson will be talking to ask about strife on the Underground All
:01:38. > :01:42.of that and after a week of very public coalition spats can David
:01:43. > :01:47.Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the coalition show on the road? Two
:01:48. > :01:53.senior party figures will go head to head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick
:01:54. > :01:57.Watt and Iain Martin who would not know they Somerset Levels from their
:01:58. > :02:02.Norfolk Broads, but that will not stop them tweeting their thoughts.
:02:03. > :02:08.We start with the strange Case of the Immigration Minister, his
:02:09. > :02:13.cleaner and some lost documents Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his
:02:14. > :02:15.resignation, telling the media he had discovered the cleaner who
:02:16. > :02:20.worked for him for seven years did not have the right to work in the
:02:21. > :02:25.UK. The Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said he had done the
:02:26. > :02:30.honourable thing. I was sad to see him go, he was a strong minister.
:02:31. > :02:37.Had he been a member of the public he would not have done anything
:02:38. > :02:41.wrong, but he set himself a very high standard and he felt that
:02:42. > :02:46.standard and honourably stood down. This would seem like a good
:02:47. > :02:50.resignation, maybe unlike the Baroness Scotland one years ago on a
:02:51. > :02:57.similar issue, but have we been told the full story? We wait to see that.
:02:58. > :03:02.Labour have picked up saying he is an honourable man, that the reason
:03:03. > :03:06.why he resigned is these very owners checks that landlords and employers
:03:07. > :03:13.will have to perform on employees over their documentation. The most
:03:14. > :03:17.interesting line is that, we do not require them to be experts or spot
:03:18. > :03:23.anything other than an obvious forgery. The suggestion that there
:03:24. > :03:29.is the document he was presented with originality, which he lost was
:03:30. > :03:34.on home office paper and was perhaps not entirely accurate. That is the
:03:35. > :03:38.embarrassment. He is the minister putting through a bill that will
:03:39. > :03:43.demand tougher checks on people and he himself did not do enough checks
:03:44. > :03:48.to discover she was illegal. There is an odd bit where he involves the
:03:49. > :03:53.home office later to check her out as well. He writes a resignation
:03:54. > :03:59.letter and he has to hold himself to pay higher standard. He has done the
:04:00. > :04:03.David Laws approach to this, resign quickly and he can come back. David
:04:04. > :04:13.Cameron wants him to return swiftly to the frontbenchers. He is a state
:04:14. > :04:20.school educated lad. He is the kind of Tory that the Tories are in short
:04:21. > :04:24.supply of. He is a rising star. I would caution on this idea that it
:04:25. > :04:30.is customary that whenever anyone resigns, it is always thought they
:04:31. > :04:36.will come straight back into office. If only the outside world worked
:04:37. > :04:40.like that. It is not, in a company if the HR person resigns, he is such
:04:41. > :04:47.a great chap he will be back next week. There is a silver lining for
:04:48. > :04:53.David Cameron is he has been able to move Harriet Bond up as he moves
:04:54. > :05:01.everyone up. But nobody will see her in the whips office because she is
:05:02. > :05:06.not allowed to appear on television. And if you three want to resign Do
:05:07. > :05:13.not hate you are coming back next week. But we will do it with honour.
:05:14. > :05:18.It has been a hellish week for residents of coastal areas with more
:05:19. > :05:21.storms bringing more flooding and after Prince Charles visited the
:05:22. > :05:24.Somerset Levels on Tuesday the Government has been keen to show it
:05:25. > :05:32.has got a grip on the situation at last.
:05:33. > :05:36.For last weekend's Sunday Politics I made the watery journey to the
:05:37. > :05:43.village of Muchelney, cut off for a whole month. Now everyone has been
:05:44. > :05:49.dropping in. First it was Prince Charles on a park bench pulled by a
:05:50. > :06:02.tractor. He waded into the row about how the floods have been handled.
:06:03. > :06:08.Next it was the chair of the Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who
:06:09. > :06:14.faced angry residents. Sought the river is out. That is precisely what
:06:15. > :06:19.we are going to do. Where he faced, a resident, he did not need that
:06:20. > :06:25.many. David Cameron went for a look as well and gave the region what it
:06:26. > :06:30.wanted, more pumps, more money and in the long-term the return of
:06:31. > :06:35.dredging. There are lessons to learn. The pause in bridging that
:06:36. > :06:39.took place from the late 1990s was wrong and we need to get dredging
:06:40. > :06:44.again. When the water levels come down and it is safe to dredge, we
:06:45. > :06:51.will dredging to make sure these rivers and stitches can carry a
:06:52. > :06:55.better capacity. The Environment Secretary Owen Paterson has not been
:06:56. > :06:59.seen again because he is recovering from emergency eye surgery. In the
:07:00. > :07:07.meantime the floodwaters rose ever higher. Some residents were told to
:07:08. > :07:12.evacuate. In Devon the railway was washed away by the waves leaving a
:07:13. > :07:16.big gap in the network. Look at the weather this weekend. If you can
:07:17. > :07:21.believe it, the storms keep rolling in. What is the long-term solution
:07:22. > :07:27.for flood prone areas of the country? I am joined from Oxford by
:07:28. > :07:34.the editor of The Ecologist magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by
:07:35. > :07:40.local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me come to you first. What do you now
:07:41. > :07:46.want the Government to do? I want it to make sure it does exactly as it
:07:47. > :07:48.promises and delivers what every farmer and landowner around here
:07:49. > :07:54.knows should have been done for years. First, to solve the problems
:07:55. > :07:58.we have right now, but to make sure there is money in the bank for us to
:07:59. > :08:06.carry on doing the maintenance that is necessary. Was it a mistake not
:08:07. > :08:10.to do the dredging? When the waters start to subside does dredging
:08:11. > :08:18.become a key part of this? Yes, of course. It is something the farmers
:08:19. > :08:23.have been asking for four years When you wander along a footpath by
:08:24. > :08:30.a river and you see trees growing and there is 60% of the capacity
:08:31. > :08:35.only because there is silt, it needs to have a pretty dramatic action
:08:36. > :08:41.right now and then we need to make sure the maintenance is ongoing
:08:42. > :08:48.Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to stop the dredging? If the dredging
:08:49. > :08:53.had happened, the land would not be covered in water for so long?
:08:54. > :08:59.Clearly it is necessary to do at least some dredging on these rivers
:09:00. > :09:03.and in particular because these rivers are well above ground level.
:09:04. > :09:09.They are carrying water that comes down off the hills well above the
:09:10. > :09:15.level of the flood plain on the Somerset Levels. They naturally tend
:09:16. > :09:21.to silt up. But the key thing is that is only a small part of the
:09:22. > :09:26.overall solution. What we need is a catchment wide approach to improve
:09:27. > :09:30.infiltration upstream and you also need to manage the flood plain on
:09:31. > :09:38.the levels and upstream so as to have active flood plain that can
:09:39. > :09:42.store water. This idea it is just about dredging is erroneous.
:09:43. > :09:48.Dredging is a part of it, but it is a catchment wide solution. Dredging
:09:49. > :09:56.is only a small part of the solution he says. Yes, of course it is. But
:09:57. > :10:01.look here. With the farmer is locally, the landowners, they know
:10:02. > :10:06.this land will carry water for a few weeks of the year, that is not a
:10:07. > :10:11.problem. But this water has to be taken away and there is a very good
:10:12. > :10:15.system of drainage and it works perfectly well. In my area there are
:10:16. > :10:20.serious problems because the dredging has not taken place. There
:10:21. > :10:27.are lunatic regulations around were when they do do some of dredging,
:10:28. > :10:32.the Environment Agency is asked to take it away because it is
:10:33. > :10:37.considered toxic waste. This is barmy. We need to take the stuff out
:10:38. > :10:43.of the rivers and build the banks up so we create protection in the
:10:44. > :10:48.future. We have to make sure the dredging is done but make sure the
:10:49. > :10:55.drainage works well and we have pumps in places and we have
:10:56. > :11:02.floodgates put onto the rivers. We need to make sure repairs are done
:11:03. > :11:07.more quickly. All right, let me go back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not
:11:08. > :11:11.the case a lot of people on your side of the argument would like to
:11:12. > :11:17.see lands like the Somerset Levels return to natural habitat? Looe I
:11:18. > :11:22.would like a degree of that, but that does not mean the whole place
:11:23. > :11:30.needs to turn into wilderness so it will remain agricultural landscape.
:11:31. > :11:37.Everybody, all the interested parties who signed up to a document
:11:38. > :11:41.called vision 2034 the Somerset Levels envisages most of the area of
:11:42. > :11:46.the Somerset Levels being turned over to extensive grassland and that
:11:47. > :11:53.is what it is best suited for. Let me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you
:11:54. > :12:01.signed up to this where you will end up with extensive grassland? I have
:12:02. > :12:07.seen it, but grass does not grow if water is sitting on this land for
:12:08. > :12:12.weeks and weeks. What you have to remember is a lot of the levels are
:12:13. > :12:15.managed very carefully and they are conservation land and that means
:12:16. > :12:22.cattle are allowed to go out at certain times of the year and in
:12:23. > :12:31.certain numbers. It is well managed. Do you accept it should return to
:12:32. > :12:35.grassland? Grassland, fine, but you cannot call land grassland in the
:12:36. > :12:40.flipping water is on it so long that nothing grows. It is no good at
:12:41. > :12:46.doing that. You have got to make sure it is managed properly.
:12:47. > :12:52.Drainage has been taking place on this land for centuries. It is the
:12:53. > :12:56.case the system is there, but it needs to be maintained properly and
:12:57. > :13:01.we have to have fewer ridiculous regulations that stop action. Last
:13:02. > :13:06.year the flooding minister agreed dredging should take place and
:13:07. > :13:10.everything stopped. Now we have got the promise from the Prime Minister
:13:11. > :13:14.and I thank Prince Charles for that. Is it not time to let the local
:13:15. > :13:18.people run their land rather than being told what to do by the
:13:19. > :13:25.Environment Agency, central Government and the European Union?
:13:26. > :13:32.The internal drainage boards have considerable power in all of this.
:13:33. > :13:35.They wanted to dredge and they were not allowed to. The farmers want to
:13:36. > :13:42.dredge that is what is going to happen, but they have signed up to a
:13:43. > :13:46.comprehensive vision of catchment management and of environmental
:13:47. > :13:51.improvement turning the Somerset Levels into a world-class haven for
:13:52. > :13:56.wildlife. It is not much good if your house is underwater. The
:13:57. > :14:01.farmers themselves, the RSPB, the drainage boards, they have all
:14:02. > :14:07.signed up to this. The real question now is how do we implement that
:14:08. > :14:15.vision? You give the money to the drainage boards. At the moment they
:14:16. > :14:20.pay 27% of their money and have been doing so for years and years and
:14:21. > :14:23.this is farmers' money and it has been going to the drainage boards
:14:24. > :14:28.and they pay the Environment Agency who are meant to be dredging and
:14:29. > :14:33.that has not happened. We have to leave it there. We have run out of
:14:34. > :14:37.time. Last week saw the Labour Party
:14:38. > :14:41.adopts an historic change with its relationship with the unions.
:14:42. > :14:47.Changes to the rules that propelled Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband
:14:48. > :14:52.was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by the electoral college system which
:14:53. > :14:56.gives unions, party members and MPs one third of votes each. This would
:14:57. > :15:02.be changed into a simpler one member, one vote system. A union
:15:03. > :15:07.member would have to become an affiliated member of the party. They
:15:08. > :15:15.would have to opt in and pay ?3 a year. But the unions would have 50%
:15:16. > :15:20.of the vote at the conference and around one third of the seats on the
:15:21. > :15:24.National executive committee. The proposals are a financial gamble as
:15:25. > :15:28.well. It is estimated the party could face a drop in funding of up
:15:29. > :15:34.to ?5 million a year when the changes are fully implemented in
:15:35. > :15:38.five years. The leader of the Unite trade union has welcomed the report
:15:39. > :15:46.saying it is music to his ears. The package will be voted on at a
:15:47. > :15:49.special one of conference in March. And the Shadow Business Secretary
:15:50. > :15:58.Chuka Umunna joins me now for the Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In
:15:59. > :16:02.what way will the unions have less power and influence in the Labour
:16:03. > :16:06.Party? This is about ensuring individual trade union members have
:16:07. > :16:12.a direct relationship with the Labour Party. At the moment the
:16:13. > :16:17.monies that come to us are decided at a top level, the general
:16:18. > :16:22.secretaries determine this, whether the individual members want us to be
:16:23. > :16:27.in receipt of those monies or not so we are going to change that so that
:16:28. > :16:31.affiliation fees follow the consent of individual members. Secondly we
:16:32. > :16:39.want to make sure the individual trade union members, people who
:16:40. > :16:48.teach our children, power via - fantastic British businesses, we
:16:49. > :16:52.want them to make an active choice, and we are also recognising that in
:16:53. > :17:01.this day and age not everybody wants to become a member of a political
:17:02. > :17:06.party. We haven't got much time The unions still have 50% of the vote at
:17:07. > :17:22.Labour conferences, there will be the single most important vote, more
:17:23. > :17:33.member -- union members will vote than nonunion members, their power
:17:34. > :17:42.has not diminished at all, has it? In relation to the other parts of
:17:43. > :17:45.the group of people who will be voting in a future leadership
:17:46. > :17:50.contest, we are seeking to move towards more of a one member, one
:17:51. > :17:57.vote process. At the moment we have the absurd situation where I, as a
:17:58. > :18:05.member of Parliament, my vote will count for 1000. MPs are losing. .
:18:06. > :18:12.They still have a lot of power. I am a member of the GMB union and the
:18:13. > :18:17.Unite union, also a member of the Fabians as well so I get free votes
:18:18. > :18:20.on top of my vote as a member of Parliament. We are moving to a
:18:21. > :18:26.system where I will have one vote and that is an important part of
:18:27. > :18:30.this. You asked how many people would be casting their votes. The
:18:31. > :18:37.old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:38. > :18:46.envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:47. > :18:52.turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if
:18:53. > :19:04.your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings,
:19:05. > :19:05.your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful
:19:06. > :19:16.than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to
:19:17. > :19:18.than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get
:19:19. > :19:28.to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give
:19:29. > :19:36.them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us,
:19:37. > :19:39.as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't
:19:40. > :19:44.have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their
:19:45. > :19:48.general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision,
:19:49. > :19:54.and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide
:19:55. > :19:59.that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto
:20:00. > :20:06.will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow
:20:07. > :20:10.people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do
:20:11. > :20:14.this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate
:20:15. > :20:20.for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have
:20:21. > :20:25.financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC
:20:26. > :20:31.and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the
:20:32. > :20:35.determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of
:20:36. > :20:44.income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is
:20:45. > :20:57.advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not
:20:58. > :21:07.-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the
:21:08. > :21:15.FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing
:21:16. > :21:19.Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed
:21:20. > :21:31.an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief
:21:32. > :21:39.executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one
:21:40. > :21:45.Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently
:21:46. > :21:49.chairman of the chief executive With the greatest respect, you are
:21:50. > :21:55.talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our
:21:56. > :22:01.country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100
:22:02. > :22:07.businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across
:22:08. > :22:22.the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the
:22:23. > :22:28.FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones,
:22:29. > :22:33.they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private
:22:34. > :22:37.sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized
:22:38. > :22:40.businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an
:22:41. > :22:51.important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a
:22:52. > :22:58.single chairman from the FTSE 2 0, correct? I don't know all the
:22:59. > :23:09.chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss
:23:10. > :23:12.of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but
:23:13. > :23:22.the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto
:23:23. > :23:33.for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you,
:23:34. > :23:46.Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick
:23:47. > :23:53.it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think
:23:54. > :23:59.you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting
:24:00. > :24:03.things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I
:24:04. > :24:07.think he was referring to the 5 p rate of tax is that he made some
:24:08. > :24:14.comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax
:24:15. > :24:17.from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has
:24:18. > :24:23.his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:24:24. > :24:27.come onto this business of the top rate of tax, do you accept or don't
:24:28. > :24:32.you that there is a point when higher rates of income tax become
:24:33. > :24:38.counter-productive? Ultimately you want to have the lowest tax rates
:24:39. > :24:44.possible. Do you accept there is a certain level you actually get less
:24:45. > :24:50.money? I think ultimately there is a level beyond you could go which
:24:51. > :24:54.would be counter-productive, for example the 75% rate of tax I
:24:55. > :25:07.mentioned earlier, being advocated by Unite in France. Most French
:25:08. > :25:15.higher earners will pay less tax than under your plans. I beg your
:25:16. > :25:22.pardon, with the 50p? Under your proposals, people here will pay more
:25:23. > :25:27.tax than French higher earners. If you are asking if in terms of the
:25:28. > :25:34.level, you asked the question and I answered it, do I think if you reach
:25:35. > :25:38.a level beyond which the tax burden becomes counter-productive, can I
:25:39. > :25:42.give you a number what that would be, I cannot but let me explain -
:25:43. > :25:49.the reason we have sought to increase its two 50p is that we can
:25:50. > :25:53.get in revenue to reduce the deficit. In an ideal world you
:25:54. > :25:57.wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax which is why during our time in
:25:58. > :26:07.office we didn't have one, because we didn't have those issues. Sure,
:26:08. > :26:13.though you cannot tell me how much the 50p will raise. In the three
:26:14. > :26:22.years of operation we think it raised ?10 billion. You think. That
:26:23. > :26:26.was based on extrapolation from the British library. It is at least
:26:27. > :26:32.possible I would suggest, for the sake of argument, that when you
:26:33. > :26:39.promise to take over half people's income, which is what you will do if
:26:40. > :26:49.you get your way, the richest 1 currently account for 70 5% of all
:26:50. > :26:56.tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a danger that if you take more out of
:26:57. > :27:05.them, they will just go? I don't think so, we are talking about the
:27:06. > :27:08.top 1% here. If you look at the directors of sub 5 million turnover
:27:09. > :27:23.companies, the average managing director of that gets around
:27:24. > :27:33.?87,000. Let me narrow it down to something else. Let's take the .1%
:27:34. > :27:38.of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over
:27:39. > :27:43.14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If
:27:44. > :27:50.they go because you are going to take over half their income, you
:27:51. > :27:57.have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at
:27:58. > :28:02.tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not
:28:03. > :28:06.controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not
:28:07. > :28:16.unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one
:28:17. > :28:24.other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example
:28:25. > :28:31.in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major
:28:32. > :28:37.economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are
:28:38. > :28:42.coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the
:28:43. > :28:49.fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden We
:28:50. > :28:53.have run out of time but thank you for being here.
:28:54. > :28:57.Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:28:58. > :29:00.Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a very public spat over who should
:29:01. > :29:03.head up the schools inspection service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have
:29:04. > :29:06.continued to needle away at the Education Secretary. And other
:29:07. > :29:30.senior Lib Dems have also taken aim at their coalition partners. Here's
:29:31. > :29:33.Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the polite welcome of these school
:29:34. > :29:36.children to Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and his party colleague
:29:37. > :29:38.schools minister David Laws would be so forthcoming right now from the
:29:39. > :29:41.man in charge of schools Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws
:29:42. > :29:44.is said to have been furious with The Education secretary over the
:29:45. > :29:48.decision to remove Sally Morgan as chair of Ofsted. But those who know
:29:49. > :29:50.the inner working of the Lib Dems say that's just understandable. When
:29:51. > :29:53.you have the department not being consulted, it would be possible for
:29:54. > :29:57.him to not publicly comment. The remarkable thing would be if he
:29:58. > :30:07.hadn't said anything at all. We should be careful to understand this
:30:08. > :30:18.is not always part of a preplanned decision. There is a growing sense
:30:19. > :30:21.that inside Number Ten this is a concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also
:30:22. > :30:25.understand there is no love lost between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove
:30:26. > :30:31.to say the least, and a growing frustration that if the Lib Dems
:30:32. > :30:34.think such so-called yellow and blue attacks can help them with the
:30:35. > :30:42.election, they can also damage the long-term prospects of the Coalition
:30:43. > :30:45.post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more
:30:46. > :30:47.significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander s
:30:48. > :30:50.recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne
:30:51. > :30:53.to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this
:30:54. > :30:56.builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of
:30:57. > :30:59.people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice
:31:00. > :31:01.people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative
:31:02. > :31:15.policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain
:31:16. > :31:19.his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that
:31:20. > :31:27.we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if
:31:28. > :31:33.we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the
:31:34. > :31:37.Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation
:31:38. > :31:43.strategy was always likely as 2 15 approached, so is there evidence it
:31:44. > :31:47.works? Or of the work we publish shows the Lib Dems have a huge
:31:48. > :31:53.problem in terms of their distinctiveness, so attacking their
:31:54. > :31:55.coalition partners or the Labour Party is helpful in showing what
:31:56. > :32:01.they are against, but there are bigger problem is showing what they
:32:02. > :32:06.are for. And one Conservative MP with access to Number Ten as part of
:32:07. > :32:12.the PM's policy board says yellow on blue attacks are misplaced and
:32:13. > :32:16.irresponsible. At this stage when all the hard work is being done and
:32:17. > :32:25.the country is back on its feet the Lib Dems are choosing the time to
:32:26. > :32:28.step away from the coalition. That is your position, but do you suspect
:32:29. > :32:35.coming up to the next election we will see more of this? I think the
:32:36. > :32:41.Lib Dems are about as hard to pin down as a weasel in Vaseline. And
:32:42. > :32:44.with the public's view of politicians right now, and wants to
:32:45. > :32:51.be seen as slicker than a well oiled weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer
:32:52. > :33:01.Matthew Oakeshott and senior Conservative backbencher Bernard
:33:02. > :33:05.Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories
:33:06. > :33:11.on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:12. > :33:18.Lib Dem withdrawal from the coalition? I do not know, I am not
:33:19. > :33:22.privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy. Some of us have been independent for
:33:23. > :33:28.some time. I resigned over treatment of the banks. That is now being
:33:29. > :33:34.sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks,
:33:35. > :33:40.almost an enemy within strategy When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws
:33:41. > :33:47.and Danny Alexander, the three key people closest to the Conservatives,
:33:48. > :33:51.when you see all of them attacking, and this morning Nick Clegg has had
:33:52. > :33:56.a go at the Conservatives over drug policy. There is a string of
:33:57. > :34:02.policies where something is going on. It is difficult to do an enemy
:34:03. > :34:08.within strategy. I believe as many Lib Dems do that we should withdraw
:34:09. > :34:12.from the coalition six months to one year before the election so we can
:34:13. > :34:16.put our positive policies across rather than having this tricky
:34:17. > :34:24.strategy of trying to do it from within. Why does David Cameron need
:34:25. > :34:29.the Lib Dems? He probably does not. The country generally favoured the
:34:30. > :34:33.coalition to start with. Voters like to see politicians are working
:34:34. > :34:38.together and far more of that goes on in Westminster then we see. Most
:34:39. > :34:46.of my committee reports are unanimous reports from all parties.
:34:47. > :34:54.Why does he need them? I do not think he does. You would be happy to
:34:55. > :34:59.see the Lib Dems go? I would always be happy to see a single minority
:35:00. > :35:04.Government because it would be easier for legislation. The
:35:05. > :35:07.legislation you could not get through would not get through
:35:08. > :35:12.whether we were in coalition or not. The 40p tax rate, there
:35:13. > :35:17.probably is not a majority in the House of Commons at the moment,
:35:18. > :35:21.despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much
:35:22. > :35:26.difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the
:35:27. > :35:30.committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government
:35:31. > :35:34.that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is
:35:35. > :35:39.important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and
:35:40. > :35:44.sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row
:35:45. > :35:50.goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it
:35:51. > :35:56.carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out If
:35:57. > :36:01.it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within
:36:02. > :36:06.strategy as you have described it, can the coalition survived another
:36:07. > :36:10.16 months of this? It is also a question should they. I never
:36:11. > :36:17.thought I would say this, I agree with Bernard. Interestingly earlier
:36:18. > :36:21.Chuka Umunna missed the point talking about business support.
:36:22. > :36:24.Business is worried about this anti-European rhetoric and that is a
:36:25. > :36:28.deep split between the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP wing of the
:36:29. > :36:34.Tory party. That is really damaging and that is something we need to
:36:35. > :36:39.make our own case separately on Do you get fed up when you hear
:36:40. > :36:44.constant Lib Dem attacks on you What makes me fed up is my own party
:36:45. > :36:50.cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to
:36:51. > :36:57.have this much more open debate I would like to see my own party
:36:58. > :37:00.leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal
:37:01. > :37:04.Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want
:37:05. > :37:08.to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can
:37:09. > :37:12.get it through the Commons, but we need to get the Liberals out of the
:37:13. > :37:16.Government so they stop blocking the Government putting forward a
:37:17. > :37:26.referendum bill. And put millions of jobs at risk? I am not going down
:37:27. > :37:30.the European road today. It strikes me that given that the attacks from
:37:31. > :37:35.the Lib Dems are now coming from the left attacking the Tories, is this a
:37:36. > :37:40.representative of the failure of Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a
:37:41. > :37:46.centrist Liberal party and he now accepts the only way he can save as
:37:47. > :37:53.many seats as he can do is to get the disillusioned left Lib Dem
:37:54. > :37:56.voters to come back to the fold The site is we have lost over half our
:37:57. > :38:01.vote at the last election and at the moment there is no sign in the polls
:38:02. > :38:07.of it coming back and we are getting very close to the next election I
:38:08. > :38:13.welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem, but talking
:38:14. > :38:17.about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat voters at the
:38:18. > :38:22.last election are radical, progressive people who want to see a
:38:23. > :38:25.much fairer Britain and a much less divided society and we must make
:38:26. > :38:32.sure we maximise our vote from there. We know what both of you
:38:33. > :38:36.want, but what do you think will happen? Do you think this coalition
:38:37. > :38:42.will survive all the way to the election or will it break up
:38:43. > :38:48.beforehand? I think it will break up beforehand. Our long-term economic
:38:49. > :38:51.plan is working. The further changes in policies we want to implement to
:38:52. > :38:58.sustain that plan are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When
:38:59. > :39:02.will they break up? It has lasted longer than I thought it would, but
:39:03. > :39:10.it must break up at least six months before the election. Do you think it
:39:11. > :39:15.will survive or not? The coalition has delivered a great deal in many
:39:16. > :39:19.ways, but it is running out of steam. It depends what happens in
:39:20. > :39:23.the May elections. If the Liberal Democrats do not do better than we
:39:24. > :39:32.have done in the last three, there will be very strong pressure from
:39:33. > :39:38.the inside. You both agree. Television history has been made.
:39:39. > :39:42.You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be
:39:43. > :39:55.looking at the Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in
:39:56. > :39:59.the North West: Putting themselves in the shop window for Westminster.
:40:00. > :40:04.Who's going to be this region's newest MP? It's a little unusual
:40:05. > :40:07.this week. We have four of the candidates hoping to succeed Paul
:40:08. > :40:14.Goggins as the MP for Wythenshawe and Sale East. They're here to press
:40:15. > :40:17.their case. For the UK Independence Party, John Bickley, Mary Di Mauro
:40:18. > :40:19.of the Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives' Reverend Daniel
:40:20. > :40:27.Critchlow and, for Labour, Mike Kane. So, let's start by having a
:40:28. > :40:32.look at what they're fighting for. If you were elected MP, John, what
:40:33. > :40:37.would you most like to achieve? I want to prioritise jobs, social
:40:38. > :40:48.housing and services for British citizens. Mary training, jobs,
:40:49. > :40:50.education, apprenticeships. I want to set up a new youth problem for
:40:51. > :40:58.the people of Wythenshawe, sort out the little `` litter problem and the
:40:59. > :41:01.pothole problems. I'm incredibly proud to be selected to my seat and
:41:02. > :41:07.Paul Goggins was a great public servant and we felt great warmth
:41:08. > :41:10.with him. I am passionate about being in politics with people,
:41:11. > :41:15.sorting out the accident and emergency pressures, the cost of
:41:16. > :41:21.living prices `` crisis, and finally the unfair Council cuts we face in
:41:22. > :41:24.Manchester and Trafford. We will pick up on those issues, but let's
:41:25. > :41:32.have a look what they are fighting for. Wythenshawe and Sale East was
:41:33. > :41:36.formed in 1997 when most of the former Manchester Wythenshawe
:41:37. > :41:42.constituency was combined with parts Sale. There are two contrasting
:41:43. > :41:46.areas, the post`war council estate, once the largest in Europe, and the
:41:47. > :41:51.more affluent Sale. Paul Goggins, who died last month, won the seat of
:41:52. > :41:55.the seat for Labour four times with the Conservatives finishing second
:41:56. > :42:00.on each occasion. In 2010 in his majority slipped to 18.5% and
:42:01. > :42:06.bookmakers reckon it could be UKIP pushing hardest this time around.
:42:07. > :42:14.William Hill says Labour are hot favourites but rates Nigel Farage's
:42:15. > :42:15.party at 10/1. The Conservatives are 150/1.
:42:16. > :42:20.But while the bookies aren't always right. Our reporter Stuart Pollitt
:42:21. > :42:35.usually is. So we've asked him to find out what the voters want.
:42:36. > :42:39.It was the constituency where hoodies offered more than a hug to
:42:40. > :42:49.David Cameron and was branded Broken Britain when royalty arrived on its
:42:50. > :42:54.estates. I noticed bad language This constituency is made up of
:42:55. > :42:58.contrasting areas, this is middle`class Sale, all canals and
:42:59. > :43:02.cappuccino. Part of Tory controlled Trafford Council, and this is the
:43:03. > :43:08.more traditional working`class area of Wythenshawe with its large
:43:09. > :43:13.post`war housing estate car `` housing estates. Part of the
:43:14. > :43:18.Labour`controlled council. I will be with you until 12pm. Those who
:43:19. > :43:24.volunteer at the community radio station have different ideas about
:43:25. > :43:30.the main issues facing the area Fuel poverty, food poverty, the
:43:31. > :43:36.churches in the area are actually distributing food to people in
:43:37. > :43:41.need. Do you think many of your friends will vote in the election?
:43:42. > :43:47.No, I wouldn't have done until now, but it has hit me and my age group.
:43:48. > :43:50.A lot of people think that because this is a social housing estate it
:43:51. > :43:54.is a rough estate. There is nothing wrong about Wythenshawe. It's a
:43:55. > :44:01.very, very nice place to live and work. If you have the chance to
:44:02. > :44:04.work, that is. At this jam factory they are offering the people to
:44:05. > :44:10.work, but struggling to fill the posts. Your family has a long
:44:11. > :44:14.history in this area. We have been making jam in Manchester since 881
:44:15. > :44:18.and have been on this site and Wythenshawe for over 20 years. More
:44:19. > :44:25.than 200 people are employed here but they are looking for more. It's
:44:26. > :44:27.the lack of the right people. Everything you read and hear, you
:44:28. > :44:32.think there would be queues of people round the block, which isn't
:44:33. > :44:35.really the case. It is finding the right people to work in the food
:44:36. > :44:38.factory. Wythenshawe's position was one reason Duerr's relocated and
:44:39. > :44:41.there could be more jobs available with the expansion of nearby
:44:42. > :44:45.Manchester Airport. The extension of the metrolink to the Airport should
:44:46. > :44:56.also help. But will the election of a new MP make a difference here
:44:57. > :45:02.Mike, what has gone so wrong that the local jam factory can't find
:45:03. > :45:05.enough decent workers? I think the key issue in the constituency is
:45:06. > :45:09.there is a lot of economic inactivity. There are nearly 50 0
:45:10. > :45:13.people currently looking for work. 1000 of those under the age of 4
:45:14. > :45:17.and it will be massively important for the next MP to champion the
:45:18. > :45:21.cause of those young people about getting access to local employment.
:45:22. > :45:27.What is stopping them working at jam factory? Within a five mile radius
:45:28. > :45:32.of this there are 5000 apprenticeships, and I would make
:45:33. > :45:35.sure that those people are accessing jobs in the area. You're not
:45:36. > :45:40.concerned that people don't have the necessary skills and training to
:45:41. > :45:43.take those jobs now? I think getting on the ladder of employment is hard
:45:44. > :45:47.to everybody, particularly young people and I would champion the
:45:48. > :45:52.cause of the under 24. 1000 people under the age of 24 unemployed. This
:45:53. > :45:57.is reflected nationally since the coalition government came in. But if
:45:58. > :46:03.these people were educated and trained under a Labour government,
:46:04. > :46:08.then they have been let down? Identix at all. You don't think
:46:09. > :46:13.they've been let down even though they can't even work there? Mac `` I
:46:14. > :46:18.don't think so at all. The primary schools have been rebuilt, and the
:46:19. > :46:22.results of GCSEs have achieved the national average so it's about
:46:23. > :46:27.helping the young people to get that first step onto the ladder. John,
:46:28. > :46:33.you have a lot of complaints. Haven't got answers? I certainly
:46:34. > :46:37.have. It is hypocritical of labour to have a go at the working class
:46:38. > :46:44.today. You have actually betrayed the working class. During labour's
:46:45. > :46:47.timing government you deliberately allowed hundreds of thousands of
:46:48. > :46:51.immigrants into the country and they were desperate to work, and guess
:46:52. > :46:55.who's jobs they took, working`class people. They depressed wages and
:46:56. > :46:58.employers could replace British people with immigrants and people on
:46:59. > :47:06.benefits have even less of an incentive to get off benefits and
:47:07. > :47:09.into work. On the other hand it could do with some immigrants
:47:10. > :47:14.because it can't find people to do the jobs. We need to get British
:47:15. > :47:18.citizens educated. I remember Mr Blair talking about education,
:47:19. > :47:23.education, education, well, you fail. The Labour government had
:47:24. > :47:28.political blood on their hands. What would you do to solve the problem
:47:29. > :47:32.that businessman? We would look for a way to educate British citizens to
:47:33. > :47:38.be job ready for those jobs. We have already announced me want to
:47:39. > :47:42.introduce in Manchester... Everybody agrees there should be better
:47:43. > :47:48.education, but that is a bit vague. Anything specific? I was brought up
:47:49. > :47:52.on the Wythenshawe council estate, and when you are 16 you assumed you
:47:53. > :47:55.would get a job because you had a decent education. Even though I
:47:56. > :47:58.didn't go to the local grammar school, which the Labour Party
:47:59. > :48:01.closed, and it was one of the best grammar schools in the north`west of
:48:02. > :48:04.England. Thousands of working`class kids had a chance to get out of the
:48:05. > :48:11.Wythenshawe council estate in get better jobs. Daniel, the government
:48:12. > :48:15.doesn't seem to have done much here either. David Cameron came up with
:48:16. > :48:19.this idea of the broken society whether you agree with that or not,
:48:20. > :48:24.he did illustrate that in Wythenshawe itself. Have things got
:48:25. > :48:29.better for the people there? I'm don't think so. When looking at the
:48:30. > :48:33.issue of education. `` identity so. This government has given ?16.7
:48:34. > :48:38.million on the people premium to help disadvantaged young people
:48:39. > :48:44.They've given over ?40 million to help students who could not find
:48:45. > :48:50.places at school in the previous government. I'd like to mention in
:48:51. > :48:54.a positive vein, I was at Wythenshawe campus, which is part of
:48:55. > :49:01.Manchester College, a few days ago. They are providing vocational
:49:02. > :49:07.courses to help such businesses as the jam factory. So why isn't it
:49:08. > :49:16.working? I think it is. Well it isn't, because the man told us he
:49:17. > :49:19.cannot recruit. When I spoke to the principle `` the principle of the
:49:20. > :49:22.school where, they have courses ready for people to come in. The
:49:23. > :49:26.main problem in Wythenshawe is there is no belief in our young people. I
:49:27. > :49:29.believe in the young people of Wythenshawe and I say there is
:49:30. > :49:33.opportunity for them and there is hope for them, it is about
:49:34. > :49:37.instilling that hope. Mary, your party is part of the Coalition
:49:38. > :49:42.Government. Do you accept you've let people down? I'm glad the people
:49:43. > :49:46.premium has been mentioned because that was a great Liberal Democrat
:49:47. > :49:51.idea that brought millions of pounds into Wythenshawe's schools. As a mum
:49:52. > :49:55.of two teenage boys I don't think there is a lack of ambition for
:49:56. > :49:58.young people in Wythenshawe at all. The problem at the moment is not
:49:59. > :50:03.just with the young people, the problem is that over years and years
:50:04. > :50:08.of Labour government neglect we have a situation where 40% of the adults
:50:09. > :50:12.on jobseeker's allowance have no qualifications at all, but 50% of
:50:13. > :50:19.the jobs require some qualifications, five juice `` GCSEs.
:50:20. > :50:23.So how is your government done enough to address that? The Liberal
:50:24. > :50:26.Democrats in government are putting money into schools to the people
:50:27. > :50:34.premium and providing free school meals for young children, and at the
:50:35. > :50:39.same time they are investing millions of pounds in airport city
:50:40. > :50:42.Enterprises. And you are satisfied that enough? It's the right way
:50:43. > :50:47.forward and good news for Wythenshawe and I'm positive about
:50:48. > :50:54.the young people. Is it enough? But is it enough,
:50:55. > :51:00.the table show the UK slipping down the national education leagues,
:51:01. > :51:03.we're not in the top 20 for reading, maths and science, which is pathetic
:51:04. > :51:08.when we were a world leading trading nation and had one of the best
:51:09. > :51:10.education systems in the world. Your government have destroyed the
:51:11. > :51:17.education system. You closed a grammar school on a council estate,
:51:18. > :51:25.that is unacceptable. Can wait allow Mike to respond? As somebody raised
:51:26. > :51:28.on the estate and who came from Wythenshawe, I'm proud of the
:51:29. > :51:34.education, and I'm Chief Executive of the company at the moment. It's a
:51:35. > :51:38.labour fronted body, isn't it? I want more people to have the jobs
:51:39. > :51:42.they aspire to and I think we should set the higher standards for our
:51:43. > :51:46.young people. Let's pause for a moment because that is what is on
:51:47. > :51:51.offer are the main parties in this by`election, but what about the
:51:52. > :51:56.other candidates? Rather than not voting, which will be half the
:51:57. > :52:02.electorate will not do, you might as well waste your vote by supporting a
:52:03. > :52:06.radical left`wing party instead They say they want an end to mass
:52:07. > :52:10.immigration, they want British jobs for British workers. They want to
:52:11. > :52:17.see a ban on the Burka. One fellow told me, it is a no`brainer. The
:52:18. > :52:22.largest group is the people who don't vote, so those are the people
:52:23. > :52:27.who I am campaigning for, the people who don't vote. Maybe that
:52:28. > :52:30.enthusiasm will bring people to the ballot boxes. Is there a suggestion
:52:31. > :52:36.that the Conservatives have not tried in this by`election? I
:52:37. > :52:38.wouldn't agree with that. I want to be the best candidate for
:52:39. > :52:45.Wythenshawe and Sale East and I m going for it falls. It's the poor ``
:52:46. > :52:48.people to decide. It seems like your priorities are later and potholes.
:52:49. > :52:57.You not running the local council? `` later. The MP must be involved in
:52:58. > :53:00.every aspect, and if you get the small things right, you will get the
:53:01. > :53:03.big things right. In the general election in 2015, let's get the
:53:04. > :53:09.small things right, and if not, kick me out. Mary, there has been a
:53:10. > :53:13.complete lack of support from the national party for you. I'm actually
:53:14. > :53:21.delighted with the support I have had. I've had some support from the
:53:22. > :53:26.neighbouring MPs. It's been absolutely fantastic, so I'm
:53:27. > :53:30.delighted with the support. Glad you are satisfied with it. Whoever wins
:53:31. > :53:33.the by`election, the NHS will be an important issue. This week one
:53:34. > :53:36.report has raised concerns about funding and there's been a Commons
:53:37. > :53:39.debate over the pressures facing accident and emergency departments.
:53:40. > :53:45.And Wythenshawe hospital's among those that's had a difficult winter,
:53:46. > :53:49.as Chris Rider reports. Does he agree with me that the right way to
:53:50. > :53:52.go to invest in this? That is why they are ending up in hospital
:53:53. > :53:59.because they don't get the carer at home. Performance has actually
:54:00. > :54:02.improved since the general election. MPs clashed in the Commons this week
:54:03. > :54:09.over pressures on accident and emergency departments. Under study
:54:10. > :54:13.by the Nuffield showed hospitals struggle to provide good quality
:54:14. > :54:17.care `` and a study. It's clear many of the region's hospitals, including
:54:18. > :54:20.Wythenshawe, are under pressure particularly at weekends. Many
:54:21. > :54:26.people turning up at ANA should be treated elsewhere. The arguments
:54:27. > :54:30.over the future of the NHS will be a topic of discussion in the
:54:31. > :54:32.forthcoming by`election. Across the city, volunteers at HealthWatch
:54:33. > :54:38.Manchester point people to the right service. The people we are hearing
:54:39. > :54:42.about is people who have had community care cut and are pretty
:54:43. > :54:47.desperate, really, and they go there as a last resort. Usually people
:54:48. > :54:51.with long`term conditions like alcoholism. The latest figures show
:54:52. > :54:55.that Wythenshawe has missed waiting time targets in ten of the last 12
:54:56. > :54:59.weeks and that 978 patients have had to wait longer than half an hour in
:55:00. > :55:04.the back of an ambulance. In addition, 85 operations were
:55:05. > :55:07.cancelled. The hospital admits it has faced serious challenges with
:55:08. > :55:08.patients coming from Stockport, South Manchester and parts of
:55:09. > :55:29.Cheshire. In a statement it says: at this GP practice in Whalley range
:55:30. > :55:37.in Manchester there are plans to ease the pressure on local
:55:38. > :55:40.hospitals. We are about to launch publicity and awareness programme
:55:41. > :55:44.where we will try to educate the public about what is appropriate to
:55:45. > :55:49.take to the accident and emergency department, and what is more
:55:50. > :55:52.appropriate bring to the GP. But the battle about how the government
:55:53. > :55:56.plays its part in making things better will rumble on into the next
:55:57. > :56:01.election. John, how much of an issue is it and what would you do? It s a
:56:02. > :56:05.big issue. I'm sorry to say, Mr Kane, the Labour Party are a
:56:06. > :56:10.disaster when it comes to managing the NHS. What would you do John
:56:11. > :56:19.Please don't interrupt me when I'm trying to make a point. You have
:56:20. > :56:25.been silent on the issue. Will you let me make my point? The Public
:56:26. > :56:28.Accounts Committee said you took out a PFI contract that was one of the
:56:29. > :56:32.worst ever done by the Labour Party. The developers put down 6
:56:33. > :56:35.million, Private Equity people, you know, the people you don't like
:56:36. > :56:38.They borrowed a PFI contract that was one of the worst ever done by
:56:39. > :56:40.the Labour Party. The developers put down ?6 million, Private Equity
:56:41. > :56:42.people, you know, the people you don't like. They borrowed ?175
:56:43. > :56:45.million and the Labour government would allow the private equity fund
:56:46. > :56:49.is to receive ?900 million in fees and interest payments over 35 years.
:56:50. > :56:54.Do you have a solution? Yes, whatever budget is available for the
:56:55. > :56:57.NHS, it goes to front`line clinicians and services, not
:56:58. > :57:01.managers who get a ?300,000 payoff and then walked back into the NHS on
:57:02. > :57:07.another hundred thousand pound contract, or demand your government.
:57:08. > :57:10.Do you accept that? This has happened on the coalition watch
:57:11. > :57:19.Know it has not. You did the contract. We had a thousand people
:57:20. > :57:23.queueing in Wythenshawe for an ambulance. What is happening on this
:57:24. > :57:27.Tory led coalition, propped up by the Liberal Democrats is an absolute
:57:28. > :57:31.disgrace. We have had 700 people waiting on trolleys for more than
:57:32. > :57:37.four hours. That's a disgrace. Your clip just said we had 85 operations
:57:38. > :57:43.cancelled. We predicted this. When they closed the walk`in centre and
:57:44. > :57:46.downgraded the Trafford General accident and emergency, the
:57:47. > :57:50.first`ever NHS hospital, we predicted they would not be able to
:57:51. > :57:56.cope with demand. Overnight, those ambulances queueing down the road
:57:57. > :58:02.doubled. You put the blame on the government, but is it your fault? I
:58:03. > :58:11.would say the doctors and nurses are doing a wonderful job Wythenshawe
:58:12. > :58:13.Hospital. We know that, but are you? By removing the facilities at
:58:14. > :58:20.Trafford hospital more lives will be saved. If that's what he says, I'm
:58:21. > :58:24.willing to take his word. You reject all the criticisms? I agree my work
:58:25. > :58:28.needs to be done. The target we are set is 95% of people being seen
:58:29. > :58:35.below four hours and at the moment it is 92. Do you think the work
:58:36. > :58:39.should be done? Myself and my family had the best care for Wythenshawe
:58:40. > :58:44.Hospital. But there is an elephant in the room, and the one that the
:58:45. > :58:48.Labour Party don't want to talk about is that nationally, in the
:58:49. > :58:56.NHS, they took on ?63 billion worth of debt of loans just for the NHS
:58:57. > :59:06.hospitals. ?11 billion of that was the real cost and 52 billion was on
:59:07. > :59:11.the lease. This is nothing to do with the closing of Trafford
:59:12. > :59:16.hospital accident and emergency Not only will we be paying this off it
:59:17. > :59:21.is 16 times what it should be. Our children will be paying off this
:59:22. > :59:24.debt and it's a disgrace. It's interesting that you two gentlemen
:59:25. > :59:29.have clashed so much because you are fighting over the same voters. You
:59:30. > :59:34.are trying to take the Labour vote. We are not having to try very hard,
:59:35. > :59:39.they are coming over because they have been betrayed by the Labour
:59:40. > :59:41.Party. One in ?10 at the budget in Wythenshawe is paying off the
:59:42. > :59:49.interest rate on your PFI contract. That is money that won't quicken up
:59:50. > :59:55.the ambulances. You blew it. You could have been silent on this
:59:56. > :59:59.issue. Doctors and nurses, some of them from overseas, under their
:00:00. > :00:03.policies they would not be here treating at Wythenshawe. How would
:00:04. > :00:07.that add to the pressures? We will have to leave that hanging. Time for
:00:08. > :00:09.the rest of the week's news now Here's Gill Dummigan with 60
:00:10. > :00:14.Seconds. Morecambe MP David Morris tabled a
:00:15. > :00:18.commons motion asking what happened to the three people jailed for their
:00:19. > :00:21.part in the cockle picking disaster ten years ago. It's thought they
:00:22. > :00:24.were deported three years ago. Liverpool City Council announced 300
:00:25. > :00:30.job losses but also won a High Court challenge against an EU funding cut.
:00:31. > :00:33.The government now has to reconsider.
:00:34. > :00:38.Anti`fracking protestors say they'll try to disrupt two proposed new test
:00:39. > :00:41.drilling sites near Blackpool. Energy company Cuadrilla is seeking
:00:42. > :00:44.planning permission in Rozzaker Wood and Little Plumpton.
:00:45. > :00:51.The Environment Agency has pledged ?74 million to try to prevent
:00:52. > :00:53.flooding in the North West. Areas due to benefit benefit include
:00:54. > :00:57.Warrington, Northwich, Croston and Ulverston.
:00:58. > :01:02.And Blackpool Council spent the week debating whether to ban people
:01:03. > :01:06.boozing between three and six in the morning. Every weekend is a
:01:07. > :01:07.nightmare. The licensing committee will make a
:01:08. > :01:21.decision by March. One of you will almost certainly be
:01:22. > :01:24.the next MP, and you have to make big judgements in Parliament. What
:01:25. > :01:28.is the issue that you feel so passionately about that you would be
:01:29. > :01:36.willing to rebel and challenge your own party over? Mike? If elected on
:01:37. > :01:39.Thursday, the accident and emergency crisis at Wythenshawe is the most
:01:40. > :01:45.important. I want to champion the people's causes, particularly over
:01:46. > :01:49.the hospital, not selling the Westminster messengers back. Not
:01:50. > :01:53.certainly would have to challenge Ed Miliband on that. The economy is
:01:54. > :01:59.improving and I want to make sure that the people in Wythenshawe feel
:02:00. > :02:04.it in their pocket. We have heard those. Mary? We have a lot of
:02:05. > :02:08.investment in local economy and it has to be a fair society and I want
:02:09. > :02:14.people to have qualifications and to access jobs locally. John, can you
:02:15. > :02:19.answer my question? I would have to be disciplining myself, but the
:02:20. > :02:22.truth of the matter is, the existing parties have let down the British
:02:23. > :02:26.people and can no longer be trusted. Their policies are no
:02:27. > :02:30.longer credible. An interesting debate. Thank you for coming. And
:02:31. > :02:33.you can hear the latest this week on BBC Radio Manchester. And North West
:02:34. > :02:37.Tonight will have the results for you on BBC One throughout Friday.
:02:38. > :02:40.And we'll hopefully be joined by the winner next Sunday. For now, I'll
:02:41. > :02:44.hand you back to Andrew Neil in London.
:02:45. > :02:56.Londoners who otherwise may not have a voice. Both of you, thank you so
:02:57. > :03:01.much. Andrew, it is back to you Can David Cameron get a grip on the
:03:02. > :03:04.floods? Can UKIP push the Conservatives into third place in
:03:05. > :03:08.the Wythenshawe by-election on Thursday? Is the speaker in the
:03:09. > :03:16.House of Commons in danger of overheating? All questions over the
:03:17. > :03:22.weekend. Let's look at the politics of the flooding. Let me show you a
:03:23. > :03:29.clip from Eric Pickles, the Communities Secretary, earlier on
:03:30. > :03:35.the BBC this morning. We perhaps relied too much on the Environment
:03:36. > :03:39.Agency's advice. I apologise. I apologise unreservedly and I am
:03:40. > :03:45.really sorry we took the advice of what we thought we were doing was
:03:46. > :03:48.the best. The Environment Agency is being hung out to dry by the
:03:49. > :03:54.Government and the Government has taken over the running of the
:03:55. > :03:59.environmental mess in the Somerset Levels. It is turning into a serious
:04:00. > :04:03.crisis by the Government and even more so for the people who are
:04:04. > :04:09.dealing with the flooding. There is no doubt that what has been revealed
:04:10. > :04:14.is it is not just about what the Government did or did not do six
:04:15. > :04:19.months ago. What is being exposed is an entire culture within the
:04:20. > :04:23.Environment Agency, fuelled often by European directives about dredging
:04:24. > :04:28.and all manner of other things, a culture grew up in which plants were
:04:29. > :04:32.put ahead of people if you like All of that is collapsing in very
:04:33. > :04:38.difficult circumstances by the Government and it is difficult for
:04:39. > :04:41.them to manage. Chris Smith would save the Environment Agency is
:04:42. > :04:46.acting under a law set by this Government and previous governments
:04:47. > :04:49.and the first priority is the protection of life, second property
:04:50. > :04:55.and third agricultural land and he is saying we are working within that
:04:56. > :04:59.framework. It is an edifying spectacle, they are setting up Lord
:05:00. > :05:03.Smith to be the fall guy. His term of office comes at the end of the
:05:04. > :05:08.summer and they will find something new. But the point Lord Smith is
:05:09. > :05:12.making is that dredging is important and it was a mistake not to dredge,
:05:13. > :05:17.but it is a bigger picture than that. I am no expert, but you need a
:05:18. > :05:24.whole skill solution that is looking not just bad dredging, but at the
:05:25. > :05:28.whole catchment area looking at the production of maize. It is harvested
:05:29. > :05:34.in autumn and then the water runs off the topsoil. You see the
:05:35. > :05:38.pictures of the flooding, it is all topsoil flooding through those
:05:39. > :05:42.towns. What you have got to have in the uplands is some land that can
:05:43. > :05:47.absorb that water and there are really big questions about the way
:05:48. > :05:51.we carry out farming. Chris Smith was meant to appear on the Andrew
:05:52. > :05:55.Marr show this morning, but pulled back at the last minute. There must
:05:56. > :05:59.be doubts as to whether he can survive to the summer. Where is the
:06:00. > :06:06.chief executive of the Environment Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:06:07. > :06:10.Smith has been setup in this situation. David Cameron went to the
:06:11. > :06:17.Somerset Levels on Friday for about half an hour, in and out, with no
:06:18. > :06:24.angry people shouting at him. You to a farm. It is agreed he has had good
:06:25. > :06:30.crisis. But we are seen as being a London media class who does not
:06:31. > :06:34.understand the countryside. You can imagine David Cameron in a pair of
:06:35. > :06:40.wellies. If this was happening in Guildford, it would not have dragged
:06:41. > :06:43.on for so long. Looe it is interesting how they are saying the
:06:44. > :06:49.Environment Agency has put words in front of everything else. The
:06:50. > :06:53.great-great-grandson of Queen Victoria thinks people should be
:06:54. > :06:58.sacked at the whim. He is talking about how the Environment Agency
:06:59. > :07:03.spent ?31 million on a bird sanctuary. It turns out the bird
:07:04. > :07:08.sanctuary was an attempt to put up a flood defence system for a village
:07:09. > :07:12.which has worked. That village has been saved. They compensated some
:07:13. > :07:17.farmers for the farmland they were not going to be able to farm and put
:07:18. > :07:26.a flood defence system further back to protect this village and then
:07:27. > :07:29.they built a bird sanctuary. It was not ?31 million to create a bird
:07:30. > :07:35.sanctuary, it was to save a village and it worked. But in 2008 the
:07:36. > :07:40.Environment Agency was talking about dynamiting every pumping agency
:07:41. > :07:45.There was a metropolitan mindset on the part of that agency. If it does
:07:46. > :07:51.what Owen Paterson, who is now off in an eye operation, suggested a
:07:52. > :07:56.plan to fix this, they will find a lot of what they want or need to do
:07:57. > :08:04.will be in contravention of European directives. The Wythenshawe
:08:05. > :08:09.by-election. There is no question Labour is going to win, probably
:08:10. > :08:14.incredibly convincingly, one poll showing 60% plus of the vote. It
:08:15. > :08:19.would be surprising if Labour was in any threat up there. The issue is,
:08:20. > :08:25.does UKIP beat the Tories and if so, by how much? The latest poll was
:08:26. > :08:32.showing it in second place as nip and tuck, but the feeling I have is
:08:33. > :08:35.UKIP will do better. And they have got a great local candidate. The
:08:36. > :08:40.Tories have not parachuted somebody in and they have got a local man in
:08:41. > :08:45.and that will help them. We have all been waiting to see if the Tories
:08:46. > :08:53.lose their head, but they might go chicken earlier than that. Will UKIP
:08:54. > :08:58.come second? It looks like that A poll this week showed that Labour is
:08:59. > :09:03.way ahead and UKIP possibly second. But it is an important by-election
:09:04. > :09:08.for UKIP. If they do well in the European elections, they should
:09:09. > :09:11.still be on a roll. They did really well in by-elections last year. If
:09:12. > :09:17.they do not do well, is it because they are not on payroll? Or in
:09:18. > :09:23.Manchester they have a fantastic leader of the council? Will UKIP
:09:24. > :09:27.come a good second? I think they will and if they do not, it might
:09:28. > :09:34.suggest Nigel Farage is losing its slightly. One thing to look out for
:09:35. > :09:39.is how little Labour are attacking UKIP. Their election strategy relies
:09:40. > :09:45.a lot on UKIP taking Tory votes But it could also take Labour votes
:09:46. > :09:50.Particularly in the north and we shall see. The results will be out
:09:51. > :09:57.on Thursday night. The Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bird ,
:09:58. > :10:03.his interventions have become more frequent and something was strange.
:10:04. > :10:10.Have a look. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman. Order, the
:10:11. > :10:15.Government Chief Whip has absolutely no business whatsoever shouting from
:10:16. > :10:20.a sedentary position. Order, the honourable gentleman will remain in
:10:21. > :10:28.the chamber. If we could tackle this problem. I say to the honourable
:10:29. > :10:32.member for Bridgwater, be quiet if you cannot be quiet, get out, it is
:10:33. > :10:51.rude, stupid and pompous and it needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order.
:10:52. > :10:57.You really... Order. You are a very over excitable individual. You need
:10:58. > :11:01.to write out 1000 times, I will behave myself at Prime Minister 's
:11:02. > :11:07.questions. He was talking to the Education Secretary and it is not
:11:08. > :11:16.1000 lines, it is 100 lines, at least it was in my day. Is he
:11:17. > :11:19.beginning to make a fool of himself? There was only one over excitable
:11:20. > :11:22.person there and that was the speaker and he is losing the
:11:23. > :11:27.confidence of the Conservative MPs, but he never had that in the first
:11:28. > :11:32.place. But he is an incredibly reforming speaker. He has this
:11:33. > :11:39.strange idea that Parliament should hold the Government to account. It
:11:40. > :11:44.will never catch on. It means very frequently there are urgent
:11:45. > :11:47.questions. The other day he called a backbench amendment on the
:11:48. > :11:53.deportation of foreign criminals. He could have found a way not to call
:11:54. > :11:57.that. He is a real reformer and the executive do not like that. That is
:11:58. > :12:05.true and he has allowed Parliament to flourish which has given us room
:12:06. > :12:09.to breathe at a time of a coalition Government when Parliament has more
:12:10. > :12:15.power. That is all that enough to overcome these increasingly mannered
:12:16. > :12:22.and some of them may be preplanned interventions? The last one was last
:12:23. > :12:30.week, and last week the speaker had a rather stressful week with the
:12:31. > :12:36.tabloids. Something is clearly up. I think it is a real shame. I think
:12:37. > :12:40.many of us when he was elected did not think he would make a great
:12:41. > :12:45.speaker and there are people like Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who
:12:46. > :12:50.have said he is a fantastic speaker. He has given the Commons room to
:12:51. > :12:55.breathe and he has called on ministers to be held to account when
:12:56. > :13:00.they do not want to be. What do you think? He is seen as anti-government
:13:01. > :13:06.and he is pro-backbencher and that is what people do not like. People
:13:07. > :13:13.like Douglas Carswell are actually very strongly in support of him We
:13:14. > :13:17.carry the interventions every week on Prime Minister 's questions and
:13:18. > :13:21.we see them every week and they are getting a bit more eccentric. If I
:13:22. > :13:28.was having to keep that under control, I would be driven slowly
:13:29. > :13:33.mad. But his job is easier than mine. But if you look at his
:13:34. > :13:40.deputy, Eleanor Laing, she is very robust, but she is calm. Chap who
:13:41. > :13:49.does the budget is excellent. We are on throughout the week at midday on
:13:50. > :13:52.BBC Two. We will be back next Sunday at 11. If it is Sunday, it is the
:13:53. > :13:59.Sunday Politics.