04/05/2014

:00:36. > :00:41.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Walls are being

:00:42. > :00:44.re-painted in Belfast as Gerry Adams begins his fourth day in police

:00:45. > :00:48.custody in connection with one of the most brutal and shocking murders

:00:49. > :01:00.of the Troubles. That's our top story.

:01:01. > :01:03.He may have got egg on his face this week but Nigel Farage is a serious

:01:04. > :01:05.electoral threat in this month's elections. I'll ask the Conservative

:01:06. > :01:08.Party Chairman Grant Shapps how worried he is.

:01:09. > :01:12.And we're on the trail of Nick Clegg. You were voted the best

:01:13. > :01:18.looking party leader and the most likely to be a good cook.

:01:19. > :01:22.In the North West, we look ahead to the European elections, taking two

:01:23. > :01:27.viewers to Brussels. Will the trip leave them any the wiser?

:01:28. > :01:30.questions of identity, immigration and independence. We have a table

:01:31. > :01:37.full of Euro candidates here to debate what it means for London.

:01:38. > :01:41.And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the

:01:42. > :01:43.business - Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. They'll be

:01:44. > :01:49.throwing metaphorical rotten eggs into the twittersphere.

:01:50. > :01:52.First this morning - Gerry Adams, President of Sinn Fein, has spent a

:01:53. > :01:55.fourth night in police custody after he was arrested in connection with

:01:56. > :02:08.the killing of Jean McConville more than 40 years ago. Sinn Fein has

:02:09. > :02:11.claimed that the arrest is politically motivated coming, as it

:02:12. > :02:14.does, during local and European election campaigns. Northern

:02:15. > :02:16.Ireland's deputy first minister, Martin McGuinness, has indicated he

:02:17. > :02:19.might review the party's support for policing in the province if Gerry

:02:20. > :02:22.Adams is charged. The Jean McConville murder was one of the

:02:23. > :02:24.most notorious cases of the Troubles.

:02:25. > :02:31.The widowed mother of ten was kidnapped from her home in December

:02:32. > :02:37.1972, never to be seen alive again. The IRA denied involvement but in

:02:38. > :02:44.1999 admitted it had murdered her and several others, known as the

:02:45. > :02:47.Disappeared. Before his death, the former IRA commander Brendan Hughes

:02:48. > :02:55.pointed the finger at Gerry Adams, claiming:

:02:56. > :03:08.In April this year, either Bell was charged with aiding and abetting the

:03:09. > :03:13.murder. -- Ivor Bell. Gerry Adams has always insisted he is innocent

:03:14. > :03:18.of any part in the abduction and killing all burial of Mrs

:03:19. > :03:21.McConville. We were hoping to speak to the

:03:22. > :03:24.Northern Ireland Secretary, Theresa Villiers, but having agreed to do an

:03:25. > :03:31.interview with us this morning, she pulled out. But we are joined from

:03:32. > :03:36.Belfast by Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. And

:03:37. > :03:48.the police just doing their job by questioning Gerry Adams? Gerry Adams

:03:49. > :03:52.said publicly some time ago that he was available to speak to the

:03:53. > :03:58.police, but that is not what this is about at the moment, because what we

:03:59. > :04:02.have here is clearly evidence in our mind of political interference in

:04:03. > :04:06.what should be due process. Gerry Adams made it clear some time ago he

:04:07. > :04:12.wanted to speak to the police, it was available at any time, and yet

:04:13. > :04:16.that request was not taken up until three weeks into an election and we

:04:17. > :04:21.believe that was deliberately orchestrated by a small number of

:04:22. > :04:28.people. What evidence can you present this morning that proves

:04:29. > :04:35.that claim? The direct circumstances Gerry Adams finds himself in at the

:04:36. > :04:46.moment, take that in stark contrast when they have dealt with members of

:04:47. > :04:54.the British Army for instance... That is just circumstantial. The

:04:55. > :04:59.PSNI know that the soldiers involved in that and a number of other

:05:00. > :05:04.high-profile killings of citizens here, and not one of those people

:05:05. > :05:09.has been arrested. In fact any of the people who were interviewed were

:05:10. > :05:20.interviewed by request. There was a stark contrast, in terms of how they

:05:21. > :05:25.have dealt with the British military involving state killings. We haven't

:05:26. > :05:30.got too much time. Sinn Fein said it would review its support for the

:05:31. > :05:35.PSNI if Gerry Adams is charged. That sounds like political interference

:05:36. > :05:41.in the police process. It's not because we have a clear mandate from

:05:42. > :05:46.the people who elect us. Policing has been an important part of the

:05:47. > :05:52.peace process here for many years, Sinn Fein plays an important role in

:05:53. > :05:58.local policing partnerships. We negotiate to make sure we have

:05:59. > :06:04.powers transferred here to elected representatives in the north. It is

:06:05. > :06:09.a long way to go before we have policing highly accountable, and

:06:10. > :06:26.making sure they deliver a very impartial service. How will he react

:06:27. > :06:32.if Gerry Adams is charged? I am still trying to get a clear answer.

:06:33. > :06:38.If Gerry Adams is charged, will you withdraw support for the Northern

:06:39. > :06:43.Ireland police service? We view this as a serious situation and a serious

:06:44. > :06:48.ongoing situation and we will monitor how this pans out. We have a

:06:49. > :06:53.very important role to play to support the police service here. We

:06:54. > :06:59.have done consistently, worked with them on a daily basis, but we will

:07:00. > :07:03.not accept political interference by a small number of people in the

:07:04. > :07:11.police who are undermining the police. We will not accept political

:07:12. > :07:17.policing. If there was evidence, and I emphasise the word if, because we

:07:18. > :07:21.have seen none, but if there were evidence to justify Gerry Adams

:07:22. > :07:26.being charged, why should he not be charged? It is my understanding from

:07:27. > :07:32.the family of Gerry Adams that there has not been a single shred of

:07:33. > :07:41.evidence put forward. I understand that, but if there was evidence, why

:07:42. > :07:44.should he not be charged? You put that caveat yourself and then you

:07:45. > :07:50.expect me to speculate, there is no way I will do that. The fact of the

:07:51. > :07:54.matter is there hasn't been one single shred of evidence put to

:07:55. > :07:59.Gerry Adams in the last few days, in fact what has been put to him is a

:08:00. > :08:04.range of issues of newspaper cuttings, books, statements made

:08:05. > :08:06.from people, including from people who didn't want their statements

:08:07. > :08:17.released until they have died. who didn't want their statements

:08:18. > :08:24.was charged, again I emphasise the word if, does the police process

:08:25. > :08:29.fall apart? The police process is a fragile entity, it requires work and

:08:30. > :08:30.we have been saying this publicly and privately with the Irish and

:08:31. > :08:45.British and privately with the Irish and

:08:46. > :08:47.process has to be nurtured and developed. We are not out of the

:08:48. > :08:53.woods yet. From a Republican point of view we have been working flat

:08:54. > :09:02.out. I just wanted a quick answer to my question, is a yes or no? What

:09:03. > :09:06.question I asking me? Is the peace process in jeopardy? It is fragile

:09:07. > :09:12.and I am not going to have words put into my mouth but I don't want to

:09:13. > :09:19.use. It has to be worked out and nurtured. Thank you for joining us.

:09:20. > :09:24.Nick Watt, you were a Northern Ireland correspondent like myself in

:09:25. > :09:29.days gone by. Where is this going to go? It shows how challenging the

:09:30. > :09:32.peace process is because on the one hand you have the unspeakable pain

:09:33. > :09:38.of the McConville family, but you also have the danger of not having

:09:39. > :09:42.mechanisms to deal with the past. South Africa is a good example, you

:09:43. > :09:46.have to have some mechanism to deal with the past because if you don't,

:09:47. > :09:57.you are going to have, as Sinn Fein have now, someone in a police cell

:09:58. > :10:01.but you don't have the arrests of the Bloody Sunday soldiers.

:10:02. > :10:08.Paramilitary prisoners were released after two years... We have seen no

:10:09. > :10:15.action against somebody accused of the Hyde Park bombings, it is not a

:10:16. > :10:23.one-way street. We have the decommissioning of IRA weapons by

:10:24. > :10:26.the IRA, therefore destroying crucial evidence. You have these

:10:27. > :10:31.inconsistencies because you don't have an mechanism for dealing with

:10:32. > :10:35.the past, but doing that is really difficult because of the pain of

:10:36. > :10:40.real people. Don't you get a feeling that here in London they are hoping

:10:41. > :10:44.he will not be charged? Definitely because it would be nice if

:10:45. > :10:53.everything went away, but the civil case of the family is taken out of

:10:54. > :10:56.the hands of the police. You can see here a real failure in Westminster

:10:57. > :11:05.to see this as anything other than settled. David Cameron we know sees

:11:06. > :11:08.himself as a chairman. I was speaking to a friend in Northern

:11:09. > :11:13.Ireland who said he has never met Gerry Adams and I think this is very

:11:14. > :11:19.revealing. They consider this as a settled issue that will not trouble

:11:20. > :11:24.Westminster again. It would be, but the relatives of the disappeared

:11:25. > :11:27.don't want it to be settled. This points to the reality that the

:11:28. > :11:33.Belfast agreement probably had to be done, but the moral price at which

:11:34. > :11:38.it was purchased was far greater than we were willing to admit during

:11:39. > :11:42.the euphoria. For a country that prides itself by the rule of law to

:11:43. > :11:50.tolerate the early release of prisoners and former pal and

:11:51. > :11:57.military -- paramilitaries, I think was a very serious matter. As for

:11:58. > :12:01.the PSNI, it only exists because its predecessor failed to command the

:12:02. > :12:09.confidence of the nationalist community. It is a very big deal if

:12:10. > :12:20.even the PSNI ends up falling into the same trap. We have to is leave

:12:21. > :12:23.it there I'm afraid. It was the Conservative's local election

:12:24. > :12:26.campaign launch on Friday, and what did David Cameron focus on? Burning

:12:27. > :12:29.local issues like the state of our roads, rubbish collection or care of

:12:30. > :12:32.the elderly? No. It was Europe. The Prime Minister re-iterated again his

:12:33. > :12:35.promise of an in-out referendum on our membership of the EU in 2017.

:12:36. > :12:38.And it's being reported this morning that he will share a platform with

:12:39. > :12:41.Nigel Farage in a pre-general election debate. Here's what the

:12:42. > :12:44.UKIP election debate. Here's what the

:12:45. > :13:22.issue when he was on the Marr election debate. Here's what the

:13:23. > :13:29.invite Nigel. My main desire is that the debates go ahead. We are joined

:13:30. > :14:48.now by Grant Shapps. local councils? Both are important.

:14:49. > :14:52.The local elections are critically important for people, their local

:14:53. > :14:58.services. It is easy to forget, for example, that the council tax has

:14:59. > :15:03.been largely frozen since this Government came to power, a big

:15:04. > :15:09.contrast to Dublin under the previous Labour government. So why

:15:10. > :15:17.did you go on and on about Europe? Let me show you the poster used to

:15:18. > :15:22.launch your local election campaign. There it is, and in-out referendum

:15:23. > :15:27.on Europe, the day of the local elections, where is the word local?

:15:28. > :15:32.Is it in small print? I hear what you're saying, I am happy to be here

:15:33. > :15:36.to talk about the local elections. But you are right, they are on the

:15:37. > :15:41.same day, and not many people know that only by voting conservative can

:15:42. > :15:47.you get an in-out referendum. -- Conservative. UKIP cannot deliver,

:15:48. > :15:52.we can, it is the same date, so people... This was the launch of the

:15:53. > :15:56.local election campaign. Why does the Prime Minister have to keep on

:15:57. > :16:02.promising something he has already promised? The actual referendum

:16:03. > :16:07.would be in 2017. He promised it before, he keeps repeating it

:16:08. > :16:12.because he knows people don't really trust him. I think it is a question

:16:13. > :16:17.of the fact that, actually, unless you remind people that the pledges

:16:18. > :16:21.there, that the only way to get an in-out referendum is to vote for

:16:22. > :16:26.it, this is a critical moment at which we need people to vote for

:16:27. > :16:31.that referendum if they want it. It is not the case, as I saw this

:16:32. > :16:35.morning, being said by Nigel Farage, that a referendum was promised

:16:36. > :16:39.before and not delivered. There was no referendum in the last manifesto.

:16:40. > :16:48.There will be in the next one. There was a cast-iron guarantee, in the

:16:49. > :16:56.Sun in 2006. Let's just clear that up... Once the Lisbon Treaty... In

:16:57. > :17:00.the Sun article, he said, we will have a referendum on the Lisbon

:17:01. > :17:04.Treaty. Clearly, because that treaty had been passed before the general

:17:05. > :17:10.election, it is difficult to have a referendum on something in the past.

:17:11. > :17:16.We joined Europe in the 1970s, having a referendum on that! Look,

:17:17. > :17:19.that is about the future. Our relationship with Europe is

:17:20. > :17:24.absolutely critical. Most people in this country feel, I was not old

:17:25. > :17:30.enough to vote in that referendum, most of those who voted, they voted

:17:31. > :17:33.for a Common Market, that is not what we have got. We want to

:17:34. > :17:41.continue the work we have been doing in the EU Budget, what did UKIP do?

:17:42. > :17:45.They voted against it. We want more of those powers brought home, and we

:17:46. > :17:49.will put it to a referendum, and people will have to vote

:17:50. > :17:53.Conservative to get it. We have been looking at new research, almost two

:17:54. > :17:58.thirds of Conservative members are considering voting for UKIP, almost

:17:59. > :18:08.two thirds. I have a simple message here, which is this. If you vote for

:18:09. > :18:14.UKIP... Can we have it up? 30% are likely, 30% are possible. That is

:18:15. > :18:19.why it is important we are making these arguments. If you vote for

:18:20. > :18:23.UKIP, you are voting to take us further away from returning powers

:18:24. > :18:27.to this country, further from a referendum. It is support for Ed

:18:28. > :18:32.Miliband becoming Prime Minister, and he will do exactly what Labour

:18:33. > :18:37.have always done - hand away powers, and away the rebate for nothing in

:18:38. > :18:41.return, giving Europe even more so over the day-to-day affairs in

:18:42. > :18:45.Britain. Why are so many people considering voting UKIP? It is to

:18:46. > :18:49.hold your feet to the fire, they do not trust you on a referendum, so

:18:50. > :18:56.they will vote UKIP to force you to tap in your line. We have a very

:18:57. > :19:00.tough line. If I had said four years ago that this government would

:19:01. > :19:04.manage to cut the overall EU budget, would take us out of the

:19:05. > :19:08.bailout fund that Labour got us into, passing a law that no more

:19:09. > :19:12.powers can go to Europe without a referendum, if I had said that,

:19:13. > :19:16.people would say, I do not believe it will happen. Not only have we

:19:17. > :19:20.done these things, we are promising and in-out referendum, and the only

:19:21. > :19:24.way to get it is to vote Conservative. Nigel Farage has

:19:25. > :19:27.said, we can't change anything in Europe, and it is no wonder that the

:19:28. > :19:32.president of the European Commission has said, we love having these UKIP

:19:33. > :19:39.MEPs, because they don't turn up and vote, apart from when they vote

:19:40. > :19:43.against the cut in the budget. It goes beyond UKIP in your party,

:19:44. > :19:48.because this research also showed that those Conservative members most

:19:49. > :19:53.likely to vote for UKIP, they said they do not feel valued or respected

:19:54. > :19:56.by their own leadership, and they regard David Cameron as ideological

:19:57. > :20:03.eat more remote from them than UKIP. What I would say is look at that

:20:04. > :20:12.list... Let me take that step further. What people need our series

:20:13. > :20:21.solutions to serious problems. When people vote for a UKIP MEP, I will

:20:22. > :20:25.say, which one of the 40% of the MEPs who got in for UKIP last time

:20:26. > :20:30.are you voting for, the ones above left or defected, the ones have gone

:20:31. > :20:34.to jail? 40% have ended up not delivering. People have a right to

:20:35. > :20:39.know what to expect when they vote in these elections. They can look at

:20:40. > :20:43.our record at home, and this goes to the point you have raised about what

:20:44. > :20:49.we have done in Britain to get this economy back on track, recover from

:20:50. > :20:57.Labour's recession. We are prepared to take those decisions in Europe as

:20:58. > :20:59.well. Presumably, active Conservative members, they know

:21:00. > :21:05.that, so why do they not feel valued by the leadership? I spend time

:21:06. > :21:12.going up and down the country meeting Conservative members, and

:21:13. > :21:14.they are on the doorstep, last weekend 150 out in Enfield

:21:15. > :21:22.campaigning for the European and local elections... Why are they keen

:21:23. > :21:28.on UKIP? When I meet somebody who says that, not necessarily a

:21:29. > :21:38.member... Have you met members of say they will vote UKIP? No, but a

:21:39. > :21:43.vote for UKIP is... Do not do it, you will end up with Labour having

:21:44. > :21:48.more control, handing away powers to Europe. 51-year-old meeting members

:21:49. > :21:54.who say they will vote UKIP, you must be out of touch. -- if you are

:21:55. > :21:58.not meeting members. Some of your members are thinking of voting UKIP.

:21:59. > :22:03.I spend huge amount of time travelling around, I just told you

:22:04. > :22:09.about this action day in Enfield, where we had an enormous turnout.

:22:10. > :22:12.Those members were on the doorsteps pointing out that you can only get

:22:13. > :22:19.reform in Europe by voting Conservative. Labour and the Lib

:22:20. > :22:24.Dems will not deliver, UKIP can't, Conservatives will. You have not got

:22:25. > :22:31.that message across, because a YouGov poll shows, on Europe, who

:22:32. > :22:37.has the best policies? Tories 18%, Labour 19%, UKIP 27%. On the

:22:38. > :22:42.economy, Tories 27%, Labour 23, UKIP 4. Why don't you shut up about

:22:43. > :22:49.Europe and talk about the economy? Look, on the 27th of May, we have

:22:50. > :22:52.European elections, as well as local elections. If I don't talk about the

:22:53. > :22:55.European elections, you would say what you said at the beginning about

:22:56. > :22:59.not talking about the local elections! These are serious

:23:00. > :23:04.elections, and the point I am tried to make is that the issues at stake

:23:05. > :23:09.are not peripheral, they are not unimportant. Our MEPs have been

:23:10. > :23:11.battling to cut red tape from a European level on small businesses,

:23:12. > :23:14.the same thing this government has been doing for small businesses

:23:15. > :23:21.domestic league, where for example every small business owner watching

:23:22. > :23:23.this show knows they have got ?2000 back in employment announced on

:23:24. > :23:27.national insurance contributions. We are doing it at home, we are doing

:23:28. > :23:32.it in Europe, and it is important to tie that together. Ireland that Mr

:23:33. > :23:48.Cameron saying, you should stop banging on about Europe... -- I

:23:49. > :23:57.remember. This is before the last general election, as in days for the

:23:58. > :24:01.Lib Dems, 18%. Even then, you didn't win the election, and now you are

:24:02. > :24:07.only three or four points ahead, it doesn't look good for you, does it?

:24:08. > :24:12.Even then, the poll did not turn out to be what it was on the day. No,

:24:13. > :24:16.that is what happens, that is the voting intentions now! You are in a

:24:17. > :24:22.worse position than a year before the last election, which you didn't

:24:23. > :24:27.win. We are almost proving the point that you can take a clip at any

:24:28. > :24:31.moment in time, not sounding like a politician, but the only poll that

:24:32. > :24:36.matters is on the day. In just over a year's time, people will have a

:24:37. > :24:41.completely different picture to look at than these opinion polls. We have

:24:42. > :24:46.an economy from being a basket case, the great Labour recession

:24:47. > :24:50.knocking 7% of this economy, hurting every family, to a point where we

:24:51. > :24:56.the fastest-growing economy in the developed world. In a year's time, I

:24:57. > :24:59.hope people will see that we are the people who've taken the difficult

:25:00. > :25:03.decisions, got the economy to the right place, more security for you

:25:04. > :25:08.and your family. Do not give the car keys back to the people who crashed

:25:09. > :25:12.it in the first place. If I had a pound for every time I have heard

:25:13. > :25:18.that! It is clearly not getting through. On the Pfizer attempted of

:25:19. > :25:24.AstraZeneca, Mr Miliband called this morning for a tougher public

:25:25. > :25:28.interest test such big takeovers. Do you agree with that or not? Let me

:25:29. > :25:35.be absolutely clear, if there is any kind of joining, we are in favour of

:25:36. > :25:45.British jobs, British aren't deep, expanding our pharmaceutical sector.

:25:46. > :25:56.-- R But what Mr Mallon and wants to do with rent caps, he is

:25:57. > :26:05.anti-business. -- Mr Miliband. He wants to take us back to the bad old

:26:06. > :26:12.those. -- bad old days. Should there be a bigger public interest test? We

:26:13. > :26:17.have seen some takeovers that people have criticised, but others, like

:26:18. > :26:23.Bentley, Land Rover, which have been very successful. Should there be a

:26:24. > :26:26.tougher test?! We will have tests that ensured this get-together

:26:27. > :26:31.becomes a great Anglo-American project, or it doesn't happen, but

:26:32. > :26:36.the Miliband approach is simply to be anti-business, anti-jobs and

:26:37. > :26:39.anti-job security. Grant Shapps, thank you.

:26:40. > :26:43.A challenging week for the Liberal Democrats with a local election

:26:44. > :26:48.campaign overshadowed by another row with the Conservatives about knife

:26:49. > :26:53.crime. Adam has spent the day with Nick Clegg on the campaign trail.

:26:54. > :26:57.How nice! Nick Clegg is taking me on a political mini break to the

:26:58. > :27:02.Cotswolds. Yes, we are getting the train. He wants to highlight what

:27:03. > :27:07.his party is doing in local government, and a personal passion

:27:08. > :27:11.of his in Europe. Graham Watson, the Lib Dem MEP for the south-west, has

:27:12. > :27:16.been running a campaign to have prunes recognised as a laxative. Is

:27:17. > :27:21.that Lib Dems battling for Britain in Europe? It is not our front page

:27:22. > :27:26.manifesto commitment! It is one of many things that Graham does, he

:27:27. > :27:33.does many other things. In fact, he is a good example of an MEP who took

:27:34. > :27:37.a pioneering role, for instance, in making sure... There is the proven

:27:38. > :27:44.world, but also the crime-fighting role. -- prune. He has done work to

:27:45. > :27:49.make sure that when British criminals flee justice, we can bring

:27:50. > :27:53.them back. And he has promoted prunes! First stop, a gorgeous

:27:54. > :27:59.country pub, but it turns out everyone is a journalist or a very

:28:00. > :28:04.on message activist. Dark days, being a Lib Dem in the last few

:28:05. > :28:08.years? Strangely not. If you find you are a Lib Dem deep down, you do

:28:09. > :28:12.not get that disheartened, because you know that, locally, you are

:28:13. > :28:17.doing so well for the people that you live next door to that,

:28:18. > :28:22.actually, I find I am almost impervious to what happens on a

:28:23. > :28:26.national level. I am mayor of Cirencester. Have you taken any

:28:27. > :28:31.leadership lessons from Nick Clegg, inspiring new in your leadership of

:28:32. > :28:35.Cirencester? I think what he has demonstrated his patience. It has

:28:36. > :28:38.been a tough time, he has taken a lot of flak, and as the mayor of a

:28:39. > :28:45.town, lots of people agree with you and a fair few don't. You are a full

:28:46. > :28:50.on mayor, he is just a Deputy Prime Minister, do you outrank him? I

:28:51. > :28:56.don't think so, he is in government, I am not. So our there any normal

:28:57. > :29:01.people in here? We are from Swindon, you cannot get more

:29:02. > :29:08.abnormal. Are you a big fan of his? No! What has he done wrong? I don't

:29:09. > :29:15.believe in his views at all. Where has he got to? Nigel Farage would

:29:16. > :29:21.have had a pint! At this time in the morning a copy was more appropriate.

:29:22. > :29:26.I have no time for a drink of any kind, because now we are off to look

:29:27. > :29:30.at a local traffic blackspot. This is amazing, like a Lib Dem election

:29:31. > :29:36.leaflet brought to life, Lib Dems pointing at a road. High-vis

:29:37. > :29:43.jackets! Next we had to giggle full bath, but there will be no Regency

:29:44. > :29:52.sightseeing for us, oh no, Nick is taking us to an abandoned

:29:53. > :29:56.wilderness. We have just had a health and safety briefing, we have

:29:57. > :29:59.been told to look out for dive-bombing seagulls and an angry

:30:00. > :30:04.fox. That is the sort of thing Nick Clegg has to put up with. He wants

:30:05. > :30:11.to talk about the economy but he has to dodge the day's beat new story,

:30:12. > :30:14.letters leaked by a Tory suggesting that Lib Dems are soft on knife

:30:15. > :30:25.crime. Isn't that a new kind of warfare? I just think it is silly.

:30:26. > :30:28.They may think they are clever by catching some headlines but they are

:30:29. > :30:40.not helping people who worry about knife crime, like I do. We work

:30:41. > :30:44.together... Just like the Coalition! This is a co-working

:30:45. > :30:49.space where different businesses share the same office. My time with

:30:50. > :30:54.the Deputy Prime Minister is drawing to a close. We haven't talked about

:30:55. > :30:57.the most important story of the week, that you were voted the best

:30:58. > :31:07.looking party leader and the most likely to be a good cook. Right,

:31:08. > :31:12.this is news to me and I can guarantee you that my scepticism of

:31:13. > :31:17.opinion polls has just been confirmed. Just as well because the

:31:18. > :31:22.more serious polls don't look great for him or his party. Goodbye, and

:31:23. > :31:29.thanks for the offer of a ride home!

:31:30. > :31:33.He is still walking. Malcolm Bruce joins us now. According to Lib Dem

:31:34. > :31:40.briefing documents, you are likely to choose -- lose a big chunk of

:31:41. > :31:44.your MEPs. If you lose a lot, what would that say about a party that

:31:45. > :31:49.boasts of its pro-Europe credentials? It would be

:31:50. > :31:57.disappointing because we have the most hard-working MEPs. The worry

:31:58. > :32:00.that we have is that people think the European Parliament is not

:32:01. > :32:09.important but it takes decisions that affect us. They would be

:32:10. > :32:14.disappointing for Britain as well as the Liberal Democrats. Isn't the

:32:15. > :32:19.problem that the more you bang on about your pro-European credentials,

:32:20. > :32:23.the more you slip in the polls? I do think so, we have two weeks to go

:32:24. > :32:35.and we are campaigning extremely hard. You are forced in the polls. I

:32:36. > :32:39.can tell you there are people out there who do believe Britain should

:32:40. > :32:44.stay in the EU and they are worried that other parties will take us out.

:32:45. > :32:51.The Liberal Democrats are clear, we want to stay in, we will work for

:32:52. > :32:54.reform and do it effectively. If you lose the Liberal Democrats,

:32:55. > :33:00.Britain's influence in Europe will be weakened. Your track record in

:33:01. > :33:05.Europe shows you have been spectacularly wrong again and again.

:33:06. > :33:12.In your 2009 manifesto you said the European Central Bank and the euro

:33:13. > :33:16.have been tried and tested over ten years providing a clear picture of

:33:17. > :33:21.the benefits of Eurozone membership and that proved to be nonsense. It

:33:22. > :33:27.was nonsense everywhere. Every developed bank in the world was

:33:28. > :33:33.tried and tested and failed. Europe may not be perfect, but the question

:33:34. > :33:38.people have to decide is if we are going to leave Europe and be

:33:39. > :33:44.isolated on RM, or use our influence to reform it from inside. We have

:33:45. > :33:51.allies, you work with them, that is something the Lib Dems do better

:33:52. > :33:56.than any other parties. Your 2004 manifesto, you claim that being

:33:57. > :34:01.outside the euro would lead to job losses and reduced prosperity. You

:34:02. > :34:07.were just plain wrong, weren't you? Yes, but the reason is that to some

:34:08. > :34:15.extent the euro did not observe any rules and regulations when it was

:34:16. > :34:19.set up. That is why we never recommended Britain should join at

:34:20. > :34:27.the outset because the criteria had not been met. In 2001 Nick Clegg was

:34:28. > :34:32.writing to the Financial Times... Your track record is important. He

:34:33. > :34:37.wrote that the Tisch monetary policy is not all it is cracked up to be.

:34:38. > :34:45.Britain would gain greater control over its affairs by joining the

:34:46. > :34:52.euro. How wrong can he be? We have always argued that the currency had

:34:53. > :34:56.to abide by strict criteria. It hasn't done so and that is one of

:34:57. > :35:04.the reasons it has failed. We recognise there is no future for

:35:05. > :35:11.Britain joining the euro and we are not advocating it. Lets put your

:35:12. > :35:17.2010 manifesto on the screen. I didn't say it was not our long-term

:35:18. > :35:21.interest. If Europe succeeds as an entity, if the euro becomes one of

:35:22. > :35:29.the world leading currencies, there will come a point when it may be

:35:30. > :35:35.justified. In the circumstances we are in the moment, there is no

:35:36. > :35:40.recommended timescale. Let's get this right. Despite the Eurozone

:35:41. > :35:45.crisis which has cost millions of jobs, countries that were teetering

:35:46. > :35:49.on the brink of bankruptcy, the Eurozone now facing stagnation and

:35:50. > :35:55.some countries on the brink of deflation, you still won't rule out

:35:56. > :36:00.Britain joining? We are ruling it out in the foreseeable future. You

:36:01. > :36:04.can miss the point that we are working as a coalition partner in

:36:05. > :36:09.government that has secured recovery for the UK, and working as Liberal

:36:10. > :36:13.Democrats in the parliament that have cut back the European budget in

:36:14. > :36:21.cooperation with others. What would the world look like if it were right

:36:22. > :36:26.for Britain to join the euro? You have 27 states at the moment, with

:36:27. > :36:30.too many countries still struggling to meet the criteria so until you

:36:31. > :36:35.have a strong and cohesive enough single Eurozone in which all the

:36:36. > :36:41.countries can meet that criteria, Britain is better off out. So a more

:36:42. > :36:47.centralised Eurozone, that is what you would like Britain to join? No,

:36:48. > :36:50.because it can only happen by consent. Any circumstances in which

:36:51. > :36:59.any further powers would be transferred from the UK to the EU,

:37:00. > :37:03.we would support a referendum. You have just said that for the Eurozone

:37:04. > :37:07.to work, it has to be more centralised and you said if that

:37:08. > :37:12.happens, that is what Britain would join. I didn't say that, I said it

:37:13. > :37:19.would require the consent of all member states to agree to the

:37:20. > :37:23.criteria. We certainly do not envisage joining in the foreseeable

:37:24. > :37:32.future. Since you are the proud party of in, why weren't you just

:37:33. > :37:37.give us a referendum on in or out? Because it has to have a context.

:37:38. > :37:41.What David Cameron is doing is dangerous because I think the major

:37:42. > :37:45.players like Britain and France are not keen on the idea of being

:37:46. > :37:49.bullied into reforms on the instigation of just one member state

:37:50. > :37:57.which is threatening possibility to withdraw. They will have to agree to

:37:58. > :38:02.rules... Just have it now. Do you want in or out? To have a referendum

:38:03. > :38:05.against no background is to put it out of context. We are in the middle

:38:06. > :38:40.of a crisis, out of context. We are in the middle

:38:41. > :38:43.is a sign of success. It is in our interest is the Eurozone succeeds

:38:44. > :38:47.and recovers and we should be part of it but not necessarily on the

:38:48. > :38:51.same conditions as everyone else. The Liberal Democrats work with

:38:52. > :38:59.others to deliver Britain's interests and if they are not there,

:39:00. > :39:00.their interests will be undermined. You are watching Sunday Politics. We

:39:01. > :40:31.say goodbye to viewers in like Liverpool and Manchester

:40:32. > :40:34.transformed by European investment. We have seen coastal towns like

:40:35. > :40:39.Blackpool being transformed by European investment. In the North

:40:40. > :40:42.West, Europe matters. Sajj?

:40:43. > :40:46.Well most people who are going out to vote UKIP are doing it because of

:40:47. > :40:52.what our relationship with Europe is as a country. But there is nothing

:40:53. > :40:59.UKIP can do to deliver a referendum for the people of the UK. And they

:41:00. > :41:03.do nothing in the European Parliament anyway. It matters not a

:41:04. > :41:10.jot how many UKIP MPs you elect to the European Union. But it affects

:41:11. > :41:13.us as a country and it harms our national standing.

:41:14. > :41:16.We will have UKIP on next week to answer some of that.

:41:17. > :41:20.Well, if you're elected you will have to get used to plenty of

:41:21. > :41:23.commuting ` which brings us onto high speed rail. No shortage of such

:41:24. > :41:26.railway lines on the continent of course, but it's much more

:41:27. > :41:29.contentious here. This week MPs voted to press ahead with the line

:41:30. > :41:32.which should eventually link Manchester to London. But as Elaine

:41:33. > :41:36.Dunkley reports, not everybody's on board.

:41:37. > :41:40.Stop HS2! Outside the House of Commons there

:41:41. > :41:42.were protests. Listen to us in that big House over

:41:43. > :41:45.there! Order! Order!

:41:46. > :41:47.Iinside, a rebellion of MPs voting in favour of an amendment that could

:41:48. > :42:01.wreck the current plans for HS2. The Conservative MP for Altrincham

:42:02. > :42:04.Sale West, Graham Brady, was part of the rebellion, along with the

:42:05. > :42:06.Conservative MP for Bury North David Nuttall. The Labour MP for

:42:07. > :42:14.Birkenhead, Frank Field, remains to be convinced it's money well spent.

:42:15. > :42:17.Wouldn't the North gain more from a major link between Liverpool and

:42:18. > :42:24.Hull rather than worrying about coming into London?

:42:25. > :42:26.HS2 is a tricky party vs constituency dilemma, Stephen

:42:27. > :42:30.O'Brian, the Conservative MP for Eddisbury in Cheshire, abstained

:42:31. > :42:31.from voting for a number of reasons. Engineering integrity costs,

:42:32. > :42:33.environmental protections of habitat, ancient forestry, wildlife,

:42:34. > :42:35.watercourses, noise, safety, and not least, full as well as fair

:42:36. > :42:45.compensation. 33 Conservative MPs rebelled against

:42:46. > :42:48.the blueprint for the high`speed line but the Government enjoyed a

:42:49. > :42:54.comfortable victory as the Bill for the ?50bn scheme passed with 452 to

:42:55. > :42:58.41 votes. I think this bill, and the building

:42:59. > :43:02.of a high`speed rail link from North to South is a once in a generation

:43:03. > :43:16.opportunity for the North to mirror the growth which London is seeing.

:43:17. > :43:38.It's not great for the North West. It simply going to suck talent from

:43:39. > :43:41.the North West to the South East. Those who did vote against their

:43:42. > :43:44.constituents wishes will have to start thinking very hard about how

:43:45. > :43:48.they will deal with the general election because voting the wrong

:43:49. > :43:53.way on HS2 is a vote loser. The ayes have it!

:43:54. > :43:57.Whilst the HS2 has past its second reading, the bill will undergo many

:43:58. > :44:05.more hours of detailed scrutiny as it continues its passage through

:44:06. > :44:09.Parliament. What do you think, Sajj, is this the

:44:10. > :44:11.best way to support the North West economy?

:44:12. > :44:15.It certainly ensures that the North West is much better connected in a

:44:16. > :44:19.way that we need to make sure that we bring ourselves up to standard. I

:44:20. > :44:26.find that the connectivity I see when I am in Europe is something

:44:27. > :44:30.we're lagging behind in here. Not to speak of the progress they have made

:44:31. > :44:34.in places like China and Japan. Quite clearly, we as an economy in

:44:35. > :44:37.the North West suffer because we do not have this sort of connectivity

:44:38. > :44:45.available to us. So why do you oppose it, Peter?

:44:46. > :44:48.What is the best use of money? For a high`speed rail line that is going

:44:49. > :44:52.to be used by business service users, who are the only people who

:44:53. > :44:55.will be able to afford it? Or do we really need to be investing in bus

:44:56. > :44:58.services, local train services, connecting up places like

:44:59. > :45:01.Skelmersdale, who have not had a train station...

:45:02. > :45:03.We don't know how much it will cost, do we?

:45:04. > :45:05.Somewhere between 50 and ?80 billion.

:45:06. > :45:09.No. ?50 billion is the top whack. What I mean is they do not know the

:45:10. > :45:12.price tickets will be. So when you say people cannot afford it, we do

:45:13. > :45:16.not actually know that. If you imagine who that is being

:45:17. > :45:19.targeted at and marketed that, it is business travellers. I would say we

:45:20. > :45:22.need to spend money on local services and make those more

:45:23. > :45:25.affordable for people. Local train services for places that have been

:45:26. > :45:29.cut off and were promised train stations years ago. I agree with a

:45:30. > :45:32.lot of what Frank Field said there. Let's connect up the West and the

:45:33. > :45:36.East. That is a more important transport investment here in the

:45:37. > :45:41.North West. The point is we need to do both. The

:45:42. > :45:46.real danger is that we are going to run out of capacity on the West

:45:47. > :45:50.Coast mainline. Already, we have 14% of passengers during peak hours in

:45:51. > :45:52.Manchester standing. What we need is electrification from Liverpool to

:45:53. > :45:56.Manchester and then Manchester to Leeds. And we need HS2. That would

:45:57. > :46:04.have an impact on the North West economy of ?51 billion.

:46:05. > :46:08.So you think that one of the benefit here is that it is not just about

:46:09. > :46:14.faster trains, but it will actually boost the regional economy?

:46:15. > :46:17.Absolutely critical. It is about capacity, about making sure that the

:46:18. > :46:21.major cities of the North West can trade internationally. And it is

:46:22. > :46:24.making sure that we retain jobs and talent in the North West region.

:46:25. > :46:27.Research from other areas in Europe where there have been rail links

:46:28. > :46:31.indicate that there is no risk that the effect would suck money out of

:46:32. > :46:37.the North West. The Greens are saying that HS2 is wrong, the money

:46:38. > :46:40.could be better invested elsewhere. Your parties agree on this and it

:46:41. > :46:46.will be pushed through. But we will oppose it with everything we can. It

:46:47. > :46:50.is the wrong decision. The Bottom Line is that Peter

:46:51. > :46:53.represents a party that opposes growth per se. It does not recognise

:46:54. > :46:58.economic growth as necessarily being a good thing. In the real world, we

:46:59. > :47:01.know that those of us who have to make these decisions were people's

:47:02. > :47:04.lives will be impacted, but without growth you simply are holding people

:47:05. > :47:10.back. We cannot allow that to happen.

:47:11. > :47:13.Growth means growth in debt. And we're talking about consumer debt in

:47:14. > :47:24.Europe being 110% of European GDP. What is good growth? Growth that has

:47:25. > :47:28.led to huge levels of debt is bad. We need to see growth in things like

:47:29. > :47:31.renewable industries and sustainable transport. Not all growth is good.

:47:32. > :47:34.But also growth in things like creative and digital industries.

:47:35. > :47:37.Look at how that has transformed Salford where we are sitting now. It

:47:38. > :47:42.is essential we have investment in growth sectors in the region. But

:47:43. > :47:50.that our region is connected both to London and to international

:47:51. > :47:54.marketplaces. Do you think the Government was

:47:55. > :48:02.wrong to reduce the amount of EU support going to Merseyside?

:48:03. > :48:08.Absolutely. Let's just deal with one thing at a time. First of all, in

:48:09. > :48:11.terms of EU funding coming to the UK, there has had to be a complete

:48:12. > :48:20.overhaul of the support we were getting from the EU poster large and

:48:21. > :48:25.that to race. Secondly, when it comes to the extent of funds coming

:48:26. > :48:30.in, looking at Liverpool, you can see`tacitly well it has done out of

:48:31. > :48:42.EU support. So by reducing? To try and represent

:48:43. > :48:47.that, in a way that Liverpool has not benefited is misleading. You

:48:48. > :48:52.must bear in mind the overall extent of EU funds and where they are being

:48:53. > :48:58.applied has been redistributed across the EU as a whole.

:48:59. > :49:08.But why did your MEPs vote against measures to cap bankers bonuses and

:49:09. > :49:11.stop tax evasion? No. That would have freed up

:49:12. > :49:17.1`trillionth euros through investment across Europe. And also,

:49:18. > :49:23.why did your MEPs vote against the youth jobs guarantee fund which can

:49:24. > :49:29.give training... This is typical Labour Party politics of trying to

:49:30. > :49:40.confuse issues. Bit is your voting record. As far as our voting record

:49:41. > :49:44.is concerned, we will defend export into the European Union every step

:49:45. > :49:49.of the way. The Labour Party has failed with its MEPs to defend our

:49:50. > :49:56.national interests. We will defend our market.

:49:57. > :50:00.Well you can already use high`speed rail to get from London to Brussels

:50:01. > :50:04.` my guests are hoping to be regular commuters. Voting for the European

:50:05. > :50:08.Elections is on May 22nd. The North West of England elects eight of the

:50:09. > :50:10.UK's 73 Euro MPs by a form of proportional representation and each

:50:11. > :50:13.represents the entire region. Five years ago the Conservatives got

:50:14. > :50:17.almost 26% of the vote, winning three seats. Labour with 20% won two

:50:18. > :50:21.seats. And UKIP polled just under 16%, just missing out on a second

:50:22. > :50:28.MEP. The Lib Dems and the BNP won one seat each ` narrowly holding off

:50:29. > :50:31.a challenge from the Greens. But do the voters know what they'll be

:50:32. > :50:34.doing once they're elected? Our reporter Euan Doak took two of BBC

:50:35. > :50:37.Radio Manchester's listeners, Frank and Eileen, across to Brussels to

:50:38. > :50:41.find out. Brussels, capital of Belgium, famous

:50:42. > :50:49.for chocolate, and a statue of a little boy spending a penny. And

:50:50. > :50:52.important because it's the home of the European Union, which critics

:50:53. > :50:57.say spends too many of ours. And Frank Baker and Eileen Maxwell are

:50:58. > :51:01.here to find out what goes on. I have absolutely no idea what the

:51:02. > :51:06.European Parliament looks like or what it does.

:51:07. > :51:08.While back in England, the politicians from Brussels are on the

:51:09. > :51:13.campaign trail. This is my raw material that has

:51:14. > :51:16.come from the shredding site. More than 40,000 people work at the

:51:17. > :51:21.European Commission, the Parliament and the Council of Europe.

:51:22. > :51:26.Most of us do not know what our European MPs do. So we're hoping to

:51:27. > :51:29.find out today. When we vote on the 22nd of May,

:51:30. > :51:33.those chosen will take their seats here in the European parliament. In

:51:34. > :51:36.the first of their radio interviews, Frank and Eileen spoke to Arlene

:51:37. > :51:40.McCarthy, who has been an MEP for 20 years and is now standing down.

:51:41. > :51:43.The committees are aware that we make this legislation against the

:51:44. > :51:46.people that are operating scams, for example, who are ripping people off.

:51:47. > :51:50.I have done a lot of legislation around bankers' bonuses, which I

:51:51. > :51:53.know is a big issue for the public. Very much so!

:51:54. > :51:54.We really are working hard on our committees and then we vote in

:51:55. > :52:05.Strasbourg on those issues. That is the European Parliament

:52:06. > :52:08.building. But Brussels is about much more than that. There is the Council

:52:09. > :52:12.of Ministers, the heads of the 28 States who are in town today. And

:52:13. > :52:16.then there is the European Commission, which is where we are

:52:17. > :52:20.heading next. Back in England, one of the three

:52:21. > :52:23.candidates to succeed Jose Manuel Barroso as President of the

:52:24. > :52:25.Commission, where EU laws are first proposed, is the former Belgian

:52:26. > :52:28.Prime Minister. My congratulations because this is a

:52:29. > :52:34.step in the right direction. And I shall open it.

:52:35. > :52:36.Guy Verhofstadt is visiting a factory which recycles cars in line

:52:37. > :52:39.with EU rules. Having some common rules across the

:52:40. > :52:53.community does actually help us. I do not bind the rules to be

:52:54. > :52:56.particularly onerous. We buy equipment with safety guards on it

:52:57. > :53:02.and it makes it easier when I am specifying it. I would rather we had

:53:03. > :53:05.a European standard than UK standard.

:53:06. > :53:08.Back in Brussles, among the post boxes and works of art, Frank and

:53:09. > :53:11.Eileen meet a rival for the presidency, who says the EU needs to

:53:12. > :53:15.be more democratic. Should it always be the heads of

:53:16. > :53:18.state who are deciding about the well`being of people? Or should we

:53:19. > :53:21.not rather have a more democratic process involving the parliament but

:53:22. > :53:24.also the citizens and the people who live inside the European Union? One

:53:25. > :53:27.of the EU's more popular institutions is Geoff Meade, a Press

:53:28. > :53:30.Association reporter here for 35 years. He arrived before Mrs

:53:31. > :53:33.Thatcher was Prime Minister and says even then the monthly trip to

:53:34. > :53:37.Strasbourg didn't make sense. All the officials from 28 countries

:53:38. > :53:40.who are based here, have to go down there with all the documents. Trucks

:53:41. > :53:43.go up and down the motorway delivering new documents every day

:53:44. > :53:51.the Parliament is sitting in Strasbourg. It is completely and

:53:52. > :53:53.utterly stupid. Across Europe, that criticism of the

:53:54. > :53:57.bureaucracy means anti`EU parties are polling well. After putting his

:53:58. > :54:00.vision to politics students at the University of Manchester, Guy

:54:01. > :54:02.Verhofsdadt moved on to Stockport and then Salford to explain why he

:54:03. > :54:12.thinks UKIP and the rest are wrong. The world of tomorrow shall be a

:54:13. > :54:16.network of big empires. China, India, the US, Russia, Brazil, and

:54:17. > :54:20.so forth. We need to be strong in that competition and to be strong we

:54:21. > :54:29.need each other. We need a strong European Union.

:54:30. > :54:32.Those external pressures are already having an impact on Europe. Outside

:54:33. > :54:35.the commission, Arseny Yatsenyuk, the new Prime Minister of Ukraine,

:54:36. > :54:38.has arrived to discuss the situation in Crimea and the east of his

:54:39. > :54:40.country. From debates, laws, directives and international

:54:41. > :54:47.relations, Frank and Eileen have seen a snapshot of the European

:54:48. > :54:51.Union at work. We have been given a fair picture

:54:52. > :54:54.and what we have seen is a very positive outcome from today.

:54:55. > :54:55.I understand more now. You do, don't you?

:54:56. > :54:59.I do. I understand the reasons that we are

:55:00. > :55:00.in Europe. There is room for improvement, but that will come with

:55:01. > :55:09.time. Frank and Eileen can have their say

:55:10. > :55:17.at the ballot box in just under three weeks.

:55:18. > :55:26.Do you accept that the EU is simply not connected properly to voters?

:55:27. > :55:31.I think we have to get our message across more clearly to voters. I

:55:32. > :55:35.think in the North West that message is being understood.

:55:36. > :55:40.Where is the evidence of that? When we are on the doorstep, people

:55:41. > :55:43.understand what Europe means in terms of employment rights,

:55:44. > :55:49.directing investment to rural communities and cities. Over half a

:55:50. > :55:57.million jobs in the North West depend on trade with the citizens of

:55:58. > :56:03.the European Union. 3.5 million jobs in the UK are dependent on our

:56:04. > :56:07.relationship with the EU. UKIP is not doing so well in the North West

:56:08. > :56:14.because we are getting the message across about what they actually

:56:15. > :56:24.stand for. Privatisation of the NHS, having maternity pay.

:56:25. > :56:33.So talking about reconnecting, let's ask our MEP. You have been there for

:56:34. > :56:37.many years. Why did leave MEP 's vote against greater powers for the

:56:38. > :56:42.British Parliament in terms of legislation, why did they vote

:56:43. > :56:44.against the exclusion of micro`enterprises from EU

:56:45. > :56:50.legislation unless the benefits outweigh the burdens. And you sat

:56:51. > :56:57.with UKIP voting the way you did then. How do you explain that?

:56:58. > :57:06.We did not vote with UKIP. You did in this instance.

:57:07. > :57:17.What is your in/out referendum all about? They are burdened by

:57:18. > :57:23.unnecessary regulations. Why did you...

:57:24. > :57:29.Let's speak to Peter. Is there a problem in terms of Europe not being

:57:30. > :57:35.connected to voters? Voters do not know who their Euro MP is. Research

:57:36. > :57:40.has been done. More needs to be done to connect politics generally with

:57:41. > :57:44.voters. It is really off`putting when we have these arguments with

:57:45. > :57:50.each other. The Green Party brings a message of hope. This election

:57:51. > :57:54.campaign has been dominated by anti`immigrant policy and we want to

:57:55. > :58:01.make a positive difference and bring positive policies.

:58:02. > :58:06.But have you not simply attacked UKIP? We will challenge UKIP. We

:58:07. > :58:15.will not leave those claims that the make and challenged.

:58:16. > :58:20.Absolutely. We're on target to what we want to achieve which is two

:58:21. > :58:23.treble hour number of Euro MPs. But what is important is that this will

:58:24. > :58:28.set a context for the general election. People are voting now and

:58:29. > :58:33.if the only story of this election is UKIP, UKIP, you then that will be

:58:34. > :58:36.the contexts of the general election. If the Green Party does

:58:37. > :58:46.well, that will influence the debate. There is need for reform.

:58:47. > :58:51.Absolutely we must reform the EU and review our relationship with the EU

:58:52. > :58:54.and ultimately trust the British people by giving them a referendum

:58:55. > :59:01.and letting them have their say. When it comes to the referendum,

:59:02. > :59:06.UKIP cannot give people a say. And the other two main parties will not

:59:07. > :59:09.give people a say. We are the only people in a position to allow people

:59:10. > :59:18.to have their say. But have you not gone from being a

:59:19. > :59:22.Lib Dem to being a sceptical Tory? I am pro`United Kingdom. We need to

:59:23. > :59:27.have a strong United Kingdom seeking leadership in Europe. We cannot do

:59:28. > :59:31.that without taking people with us. When you four decades of progress

:59:32. > :59:39.without allowing for a proper debate on the EU...

:59:40. > :59:42.So you would put a sign over the North West saying we are not open

:59:43. > :59:47.for business? We have not done that!

:59:48. > :00:01.And then you would threaten major manufacturers, such as Mira space,

:00:02. > :00:07.Jaguar Land Rover... If we can just settle down. It is about offering

:00:08. > :00:13.alternatives to the public the Green Party is putting forward a clear

:00:14. > :00:18.agenda. We want Trident not to be renewed. That is a huge waste of

:00:19. > :00:29.money. There are policies in our manifesto...

:00:30. > :00:32.Let's find out what else has been happening in North West politics

:00:33. > :00:35.this week in 60 Seconds. An independent inquiry's been set up

:00:36. > :00:38.to investigate whether Rochdale Council failed to act over child

:00:39. > :00:43.abuse, including alleged abuse by the town's late MP Sir Cyril Smith.

:00:44. > :00:46.The family of the murdered soldier Lee Rigby were said to be

:00:47. > :00:50."heartbroken" about his name being used by a Far Right political party.

:00:51. > :00:53."Britain First" will use his name in next month's European elections. An

:00:54. > :00:54.investigation's under way into how the electoral commission gave

:00:55. > :01:01.permission. Universal Credit's to be rolled out

:01:02. > :01:06.across the North West despite high rent arrears after the pilot scheme.

:01:07. > :01:08.We are just not seeing the money coming from the tenants or from the

:01:09. > :01:11.DWP. The Conservative Party welcomed back

:01:12. > :01:15.The Ribble Valley MP Nigel Evans after he was cleared of sexual

:01:16. > :01:20.offences. He had been sitting as an independent.

:01:21. > :01:23.And Liverpool City Council's in talks with Everton Football Club

:01:24. > :01:25.about plans for a new 50,000`seat stadium. It could be less than a

:01:26. > :01:38.mile from their Goodison Park home. Before we go let me tell you there

:01:39. > :01:41.are a total of 11 parties fielding European candidates in the North

:01:42. > :01:44.West. There's a full list on your screen and for more information on

:01:45. > :01:47.the parties and who's standing for them you can go to the BBC Website.

:01:48. > :01:52.That's at bbc.co.uk/politics. the parties and who's standing for

:01:53. > :01:54.them you can And next week we'll be speaking to candidates from the

:01:55. > :01:56.Liberal Democrats, the British National Party and the UK

:01:57. > :02:00.Independence Party. For now, it just remains to thank my

:02:01. > :02:02.guests, Theresa Griffin, Sajj Karim and Peter Cranie. And now I'll hand

:02:03. > :02:09.you back to Andrew Neil in London. on our website. That is all we have

:02:10. > :02:13.got time for this week. Next week, London's local elections.

:02:14. > :02:18.Welcome back. Now, the Government is not very good at predicting the

:02:19. > :02:22.future. That's according to a report from a committee of MPs this morning

:02:23. > :02:24.who say that its Horizon Scanning programme that's supposed to

:02:25. > :02:26.identify potential threats, risks, emerging issues and opportunities

:02:27. > :02:33.isn't much good at reading the tea leaves. But can it really be any

:02:34. > :02:35.worse than our panel? Here they are predicting the future of then

:02:36. > :02:47.culture secretary Maria Miller before Easter.

:02:48. > :02:51.Can she survive? I'm getting out of the prediction game after I said

:02:52. > :02:57.Nick Clegg would win the debates. But I almost think she might. If

:02:58. > :03:03.there is a big event that moves this off the front pages. David Cameron

:03:04. > :03:10.will want to keep Maria Miller until at least his summary shuffle. I

:03:11. > :03:16.think they will get rid of her. I think they will do the decent thing

:03:17. > :03:22.after exhausting all other options. Maria Miller resigned a few days

:03:23. > :03:29.later of course! The best and the brightest, when did that slip in?

:03:30. > :03:32.This week it will be exactly a year until the General Election, so what

:03:33. > :03:38.better time to get our panel to gaze into their crystal balls again.

:03:39. > :03:53.better time to get our panel to gaze What's the outcome of the

:03:54. > :03:56.better time to get our panel to gaze only a snapshot of opinion now, you

:03:57. > :04:04.think they will be the same in a year? No, I think they will narrow.

:04:05. > :04:08.I think UKIP's vote share will fall. I think they are currently coasting

:04:09. > :04:17.on a high and that will tailor way so they won't take as many votes off

:04:18. > :04:23.the Tories. Labour with a majority or is the largest party. Another

:04:24. > :04:30.liberal Conservative coalition, and I say that because he is already in

:04:31. > :04:33.touching distance of Labour. I don't think UKIP will get 15, maybe half

:04:34. > :06:19.of that, and most think UKIP will get 15, maybe half

:06:20. > :06:23.might be testing the patience of the nation to tune into all of those. If

:06:24. > :06:28.you're going to say Nigel Farage should be there, the Green party

:06:29. > :06:34.should be too. They know that as soon as you put them on a podium

:06:35. > :06:40.next to them, he looks like he has equal stature and that is a problem.

:06:41. > :06:45.David Cameron does not want the debates to happen on the way they

:06:46. > :06:49.happened last time. It is generally regarded, Lynton Crosby believes

:06:50. > :06:55.they were a disaster for David Cameron because they allowed Nick

:06:56. > :07:00.Clegg to be the fresh person. He knows he cannot say no to them so

:07:01. > :07:04.the moment you see David Cameron suggesting that Caroline Lucas

:07:05. > :07:08.should be in the debate, you know he is not serious. What he will try to

:07:09. > :07:12.do is have more debates, have them outside the main part of the general

:07:13. > :07:16.election so that it doesn't dominate. The problem the David

:07:17. > :07:23.Cameron is that the campaign will be much longer. It is a five-week

:07:24. > :07:28.campaign so it is quite difficult for him to say we will only have one

:07:29. > :07:32.debate in that campaign. I think smother it with love, hopefully it

:07:33. > :07:37.will go to the courts for him and hopefully they will never happen and

:07:38. > :07:42.he will be delighted. The European election and the local elections are

:07:43. > :07:46.coming up. The three mainstream parties are saying it is a flash in

:07:47. > :07:52.the pan, they don't really matter and so on, but if UKIP comes a

:07:53. > :07:58.strong first, if Labour comes a poor second and the Tories come a poor

:07:59. > :08:04.third, it will have consequences for all three, and the Lib Dems come

:08:05. > :08:08.forth or even fish. It will have consequences and not just in the

:08:09. > :08:11.media but on the ground. One of the big stories is what will happen to

:08:12. > :08:19.the Lib Dems, they face losing all of their MEPs. A good result for

:08:20. > :08:24.them is lit -- in the local elections is losing 250 councillors.

:08:25. > :08:30.These are the most interesting elections we have had for some

:08:31. > :08:34.time. Are we heading for a Nick Clegg summer leadership crisis? I

:08:35. > :08:38.think we are heading towards reversing the clock back to where we

:08:39. > :08:44.were before the Eastleigh by-election. That quiet and things

:08:45. > :08:49.down for Nick Clegg. If they lose all their MEPs, and there is a real

:08:50. > :08:54.chance they will, Vince Cable will be out on manoeuvres because age is

:08:55. > :09:01.not on his side. If he can say Nick Clegg is a loser and a failure, he

:09:02. > :09:16.will be back. Will the Tories go into headless chicken mode if they

:09:17. > :09:23.come third? Yes, if UKIP come first there will not be as much panic as

:09:24. > :09:27.if Labour come first. Is Labour comes a poor second, will there be

:09:28. > :09:32.some pressure on Ed Miliband to reopen his attitude to the

:09:33. > :09:36.referendum? I don't think so and my colleague was talking to Labour

:09:37. > :09:40.sources who said he is absolutely not going to. That is something you

:09:41. > :09:45.can say definitely about him, he decides on a course and he sticks to

:09:46. > :09:51.it. There is one potential upside for David Cameron in a really bad

:09:52. > :09:54.Conservative results, it could strengthen his hand in the

:09:55. > :09:59.renegotiations of Britain's EU membership because he doesn't even

:10:00. > :10:06.need to say to Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande it is there. David

:10:07. > :10:11.Cameron hasn't just been fighting for his party into the local

:10:12. > :10:14.elections. He also got his knuckles wrapped by the Speaker, John Bercow,

:10:15. > :10:21.at Prime Minister's Question Time, for talking for too long. Take a

:10:22. > :10:27.look at this. There is a better future ahead of us but we must not

:10:28. > :10:31.go backward to the policies that put us in this mess in the first place.

:10:32. > :10:49.I don't know what they are paying him, Mr Speaker. Order, order. I

:10:50. > :10:53.haven't finished! In response to that question, the Prime Minister

:10:54. > :11:01.has finished and he can take it from me that he has finished. I can't

:11:02. > :11:06.remember a speaker ever speaking to a Prime Minister like that. Clearly

:11:07. > :11:11.in that case, John Bercow crossed a line. It is Prime Minister 's

:11:12. > :11:17.questions, he is entitled to answer the questions. There is really bad

:11:18. > :11:23.blood between those two, going back a long way. They hate each other and

:11:24. > :11:29.the worrying thing about that was the look of triumphalism on the

:11:30. > :11:32.speaker's face afterwards. He is a remarkable, revolutionary speaker

:11:33. > :11:36.who has made the House of Commons more relevant, he is holding the

:11:37. > :11:42.executive to account, but that look on his face showed he had crossed

:11:43. > :11:46.the line. Does he survive after the next election? He has improved the

:11:47. > :11:52.importance of the Commons, is that enough to keep him in the Speaker 's

:11:53. > :11:59.chair? The most public bit of the Commons is still the Prime Minister

:12:00. > :12:03.'s questions, and we can conclude that John Bercow's interventions

:12:04. > :12:10.take more time than any delays he complains about so I wouldn't be

:12:11. > :12:17.surprised if, in a few years' time, someone else replaces him. He is

:12:18. > :12:24.quite popular with Labour, is he not? Yes, he is married to a Labour

:12:25. > :12:29.activist and is notably sympathetic to Labour but I think this is a

:12:30. > :12:33.difficult situation. David Cameron also overstepped the line. As soon

:12:34. > :12:39.as the speaker says order, the idea is that the House was to order and

:12:40. > :12:45.David Cameron pushed him. They are both trying to score points off each

:12:46. > :12:52.other. We cover Prime Minister 's questions every week on the daily

:12:53. > :12:57.politics, and there is a danger that he sees it as an opportunity to do

:12:58. > :13:02.some grandstanding. You slightly sends his vanity gets the better of

:13:03. > :13:06.him. It is supposed to be Prime Minister 's questions. At the end of

:13:07. > :13:11.that session, the Speaker read out a statement from the Chief clerk, and

:13:12. > :13:16.immensely respected figure, saying he is taking early retirement. It is

:13:17. > :13:20.pretty clear that the reason he has decided to go early is because he is

:13:21. > :13:24.finding it tricky to maintain a cordial relationship with the

:13:25. > :13:29.speaker, and the speaker might want to think about his man management

:13:30. > :13:32.skills. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC

:13:33. > :13:35.Two at lunchtime from Tuesday onwards. Remember, it is a bank

:13:36. > :13:38.holiday tomorrow. I'll be back here at 11am next week. Remember - if

:13:39. > :13:44.it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.