:00:38. > :00:43.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:44. > :00:47.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:48. > :00:53.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:54. > :00:57.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live
:00:58. > :01:01.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:02. > :01:04.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:05. > :01:14.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:15. > :01:16.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:17. > :01:21.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:22. > :01:25.a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:26. > :01:33.Coming up in the North West: the Rochdale care home scandal. You re
:01:34. > :01:35.in Safe Hands ` Has Boris Johnson deserted the
:01:36. > :01:43.suburbs and become a zone one man? And with me our panel
:01:44. > :01:46.of top political journalists, who are always squabbling among
:01:47. > :01:49.themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh, who will be
:01:50. > :01:51.tweeting throughout the programme This morning's political news is
:01:52. > :01:56.dominated by the very public fall-out of
:01:57. > :01:59.Home Secretary Theresa May and The high viz blue
:02:00. > :02:03.on blue spat between two senior Conservatives centred around the
:02:04. > :02:05.Government's approach to tackling The row burst into the open ahead
:02:06. > :02:12.of the publication tomorrow of investigations into the so-called
:02:13. > :02:16.Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham where it is alleged several state
:02:17. > :02:19.schools have been covertly taken Mr Gove told The Times last week he
:02:20. > :02:26.was concerned that the Home Office was unwilling to tackle extremism
:02:27. > :02:29.at its roots. He said a robust response was
:02:30. > :02:33.needed to drain the swamp. In response,
:02:34. > :02:34.Mrs May's special advisor tweeted, "why is the Department for Education
:02:35. > :02:37.wanting to blame other people Lord knows what more they have
:02:38. > :02:44.overlooked on the subject of the An angry David Cameron ordered
:02:45. > :02:51.a speedy inquiry. Last night, Mr Gove apologised to
:02:52. > :02:54.the Prime Minister, while Ms May's Speaking
:02:55. > :02:59.on the BBC earlier this morning this is what Foreign Secretary,
:03:00. > :03:05.William Hague, had to say. There's been a disciplinary matter
:03:06. > :03:07.within the Government, which the Prime Minister has dealt
:03:08. > :03:10.with in a very firm, clear way. There will be discipline
:03:11. > :03:12.in the Government. The main thing is the issue itself -
:03:13. > :03:18.tackling extremism in schools. The Government will be very clear,
:03:19. > :03:24.very robust about anything that s put children at risk -
:03:25. > :03:50.risk to their safety or learning. Let's look at the positive of this.
:03:51. > :03:56.Theresa May 's people of saying she has come off worse in theirs. Yelena
:03:57. > :04:06.Kushi is no more guilty than Michael Gove he was guilty of indiscretion.
:04:07. > :04:10.She is no more guilty. Even during 13 years of new Labour 's
:04:11. > :04:18.psychodrama, I cannot remember an act of hostility quite as naked as
:04:19. > :04:24.direct as publishing on a website and intergovernmental letter. It
:04:25. > :04:29.suggests quite a lot of conservatives do not think they will
:04:30. > :04:33.win next time. Why would there be a leadership spat going on like this
:04:34. > :04:42.unless they thought there was a vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa
:04:43. > :04:45.May is getting quite a bashing. In the Sunday Times, someone has
:04:46. > :04:50.reported she is the date from hell. She sidles up to people and is
:04:51. > :04:57.nakedly ambitious. I think that is interesting. On the whole, nobody
:04:58. > :05:03.will understand the finesse differences of opinion. It is not
:05:04. > :05:08.serious, it is not serious, it is tactical. It'll be puzzling for most
:05:09. > :05:14.people and will probably fizzle out. Has the Prime Minister slapped it
:05:15. > :05:20.down or will it rumble on? On the politics of it, it will not fizzle
:05:21. > :05:24.out. What you have is Theresa May is deadly serious about replacing David
:05:25. > :05:30.Cameron, not dislodging him but replacing him if there is a vacancy.
:05:31. > :05:34.Michael Gove is deadly serious in ensuring George Osborne succeeds
:05:35. > :05:37.David Cameron. It will be that ongoing political rivalry. What is
:05:38. > :05:42.really interesting about this is the Prime Minister is absolutely fed up
:05:43. > :05:48.with both of them. He is fed up with Michael Gove full-size gearing of
:05:49. > :05:53.message. He had the row with Nick Clegg and he had a row with Theresa
:05:54. > :05:58.May. He named Charles Barr and criticised him in a lunch with the
:05:59. > :06:08.times. White brother he is the Security adviser at the Home Office.
:06:09. > :06:14.-- he is the security advisor. He is fed up with Theresa May for mounting
:06:15. > :06:20.an unannounced leader bid. What separates Theresa May from Michael
:06:21. > :06:27.Gove on dealing with extremism? The view from Michael Gove is that it
:06:28. > :06:32.shows no interest in Islamic extremism until it manifests in
:06:33. > :06:37.violent form. Theresa May is criticised for rolling back the
:06:38. > :06:41.programme which the previous Labour government introduced to do with the
:06:42. > :06:47.previous Labour government introduced to do with the Home
:06:48. > :06:54.Office has been made by other people and made when the Home Office was
:06:55. > :06:56.not run by Theresa May but previous home secretaries, even dating back
:06:57. > :07:02.to the Conservative government in the 1990s. It is about the laxity of
:07:03. > :07:05.the Government. Michael Gove has used extraordinary inflammatory
:07:06. > :07:11.language talking about draining the swamp. I think Theresa May 's view
:07:12. > :07:18.is you can very easily inflamed those emotions and create many more
:07:19. > :07:21.extremists the process. Michael Gove would say that his approach is
:07:22. > :07:25.entirely consistent with the speech the Prime Minister made to the
:07:26. > :07:29.Munich Security conference in 2 11 when the Prime Minister talked about
:07:30. > :07:46.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:47. > :07:51.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:52. > :07:54.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:55. > :08:04.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:05. > :08:09.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:10. > :08:12.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:13. > :08:16.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:17. > :08:22.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:23. > :08:26.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:27. > :08:30.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:31. > :08:35.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:36. > :08:39.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:40. > :08:44.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:45. > :08:48.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:49. > :08:53.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:54. > :09:03.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:04. > :09:07.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:08. > :09:12.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:13. > :09:16.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:17. > :09:21.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:22. > :09:25.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:26. > :09:32.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:33. > :09:37.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:38. > :09:42.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:43. > :09:49.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:50. > :09:55.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling
:09:56. > :09:59.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:10:00. > :10:03.equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:04. > :10:08.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:09. > :10:14.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:15. > :10:20.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:21. > :10:25.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:26. > :10:31.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:32. > :10:36.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:37. > :10:41.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:42. > :10:48.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:49. > :10:52.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:53. > :10:55.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:56. > :10:59.Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools
:11:00. > :11:02.were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They
:11:03. > :11:08.were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an
:11:09. > :11:11.academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within
:11:12. > :11:15.Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school
:11:16. > :11:24.standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we
:11:25. > :11:31.get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking
:11:32. > :11:36.to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme
:11:37. > :11:44.which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and
:11:45. > :11:52.fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a
:11:53. > :11:57.desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an
:11:58. > :12:09.increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr
:12:10. > :12:18.Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for
:12:19. > :12:23.gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in
:12:24. > :12:27.since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We
:12:28. > :12:35.note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected
:12:36. > :12:42.head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and
:12:43. > :12:45.what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about
:12:46. > :12:49.fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of
:12:50. > :12:56.schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You
:12:57. > :13:05.mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence
:13:06. > :13:09.for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group
:13:10. > :13:15.dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about
:13:16. > :13:19.schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in
:13:20. > :13:26.Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of
:13:27. > :13:30.multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic
:13:31. > :13:33.education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this
:13:34. > :13:38.morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,
:13:39. > :13:49.the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.
:13:50. > :13:52.In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools
:13:53. > :13:58.and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed
:13:59. > :14:02.this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and
:14:03. > :14:07.this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you
:14:08. > :14:11.fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get
:14:12. > :14:19.together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There
:14:20. > :14:23.are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city
:14:24. > :14:28.council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning
:14:29. > :14:32.have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in
:14:33. > :14:36.schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have
:14:37. > :14:41.a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for
:14:42. > :14:44.four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to
:14:45. > :14:49.account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils
:14:50. > :14:53.in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young
:14:54. > :14:58.people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do
:14:59. > :15:05.you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that
:15:06. > :15:12.Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was
:15:13. > :15:17.building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We
:15:18. > :15:20.have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard
:15:21. > :15:25.Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate
:15:26. > :15:29.about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,
:15:30. > :15:37.the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do
:15:38. > :15:39.to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must
:15:40. > :15:48.with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on
:15:49. > :15:51.stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the
:15:52. > :15:54.most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -
:15:55. > :15:57.from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described
:15:58. > :16:04.Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the
:16:05. > :16:07.problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor
:16:08. > :16:10.Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that
:16:11. > :16:13.Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7
:16:14. > :16:23.summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people
:16:24. > :16:27.running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change
:16:28. > :16:32.and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads
:16:33. > :16:36.of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what
:16:37. > :16:41.I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed
:16:42. > :16:45.in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering
:16:46. > :16:48.that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away
:16:49. > :16:50.from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.
:16:51. > :16:53.We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is
:16:54. > :16:56.a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.
:16:57. > :17:01.He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.
:17:02. > :17:05.And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin
:17:06. > :17:08.Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives
:17:09. > :17:16.and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.
:17:17. > :17:24.The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new
:17:25. > :17:32.Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out
:17:33. > :17:37.gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to
:17:38. > :17:44.have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a
:17:45. > :17:48.high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next
:17:49. > :17:54.three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the
:17:55. > :17:58.president of the European Council after the proposal of the European
:17:59. > :18:03.Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in
:18:04. > :18:11.the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr
:18:12. > :18:15.Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going
:18:16. > :18:27.to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok.
:18:28. > :18:29.to mention them in front of someone Lagarde, the minister from
:18:30. > :18:38.Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is
:18:39. > :18:45.the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond
:18:46. > :18:49.to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical
:18:50. > :18:53.reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security
:18:54. > :18:55.services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This
:18:56. > :20:33.is majority in the light of the
:20:34. > :20:38.European elections after consultation with the European
:20:39. > :20:42.Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the
:20:43. > :20:48.European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament.
:20:49. > :20:51.Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the
:20:52. > :20:54.candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that
:20:55. > :21:00.somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for
:21:01. > :21:04.Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP
:21:05. > :21:07.party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the
:21:08. > :21:12.electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many
:21:13. > :21:16.people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their
:21:17. > :21:21.vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the
:21:22. > :21:26.commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections
:21:27. > :21:30.were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe.
:21:31. > :21:33.To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody
:21:34. > :21:43.nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a
:21:44. > :21:53.nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically.
:21:54. > :22:00.Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi
:22:01. > :22:06.links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it
:22:07. > :22:11.is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are
:22:12. > :22:15.not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection
:22:16. > :22:21.of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory
:22:22. > :22:25.Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to
:22:26. > :22:31.Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it
:22:32. > :22:34.melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the
:22:35. > :22:39.relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who
:22:40. > :22:44.vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they
:22:45. > :22:51.want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is
:22:52. > :22:54.not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem
:22:55. > :22:57.with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud
:22:58. > :23:01.to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where
:23:02. > :23:05.most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants
:23:06. > :23:13.his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the
:23:14. > :23:16.letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared
:23:17. > :23:25.to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that
:23:26. > :23:28.the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an
:23:29. > :23:31.all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to
:23:32. > :23:39.have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members
:23:40. > :23:44.of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans.
:23:45. > :23:48.These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France,
:23:49. > :23:52.a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be
:23:53. > :23:59.clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do with
:24:00. > :24:08.Europe. And we want to have a Europe which is strong, the member states
:24:09. > :24:13.should do their things. We do not want to have a European centralism,
:24:14. > :24:16.we do not want a European state This is not at stake. Let's talk
:24:17. > :24:22.about the question of better governance, let's talk about what
:24:23. > :24:25.was wrong in the past, we have to become better, to change our
:24:26. > :24:31.programme in that question. That should be the way we lead to come to
:24:32. > :24:36.positive results. Thank you for that. Before we go, there is a
:24:37. > :24:42.British commissioner that needs to be appointed to Brussels, do you
:24:43. > :24:45.like the sound of that? These are matters for the Prime Minister, I am
:24:46. > :24:53.sure he has many excellent candidates. Do you like the sound of
:24:54. > :25:00.it? Like previous British commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil
:25:01. > :25:01.clinic, I have just lost an election -- Neil Kinnock for the everybody
:25:02. > :25:07.who is asked would serve, I'm sure. Just days ago UKIP were celebrating
:25:08. > :25:10.topping the poll in the European They're claiming they'd have had two
:25:11. > :25:16.more MEPs and the Greens two fewer had another
:25:17. > :25:19.party not confused the electorate. What's more UKIP say it's
:25:20. > :25:22.the fault of the body which was set up to oversee
:25:23. > :25:36.elections - the Electoral Commission This is a party celebrating success
:25:37. > :25:43.at the European elections. They didn't win a single MEP but
:25:44. > :25:47.nationally polled 250,000 votes They are an independence from
:25:48. > :25:51.Europe, mostly people who were once in UKIP, and that is rather the
:25:52. > :26:08.point. They may look like capers, drink like capers, sound like capers
:26:09. > :26:16.-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were
:26:17. > :26:21.displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP
:26:22. > :26:26.suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused
:26:27. > :26:31.voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are
:26:32. > :26:36.allocated in a European election under a proportional representation
:26:37. > :26:41.system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician
:26:42. > :26:48.in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been
:26:49. > :26:52.tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a
:26:53. > :26:58.region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the
:26:59. > :27:04.number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP
:27:05. > :27:09.were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the
:27:10. > :27:13.last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an
:27:14. > :27:17.independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied
:27:18. > :27:23.their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in
:27:24. > :27:29.each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can
:27:30. > :27:36.prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter.
:27:37. > :27:40.UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before,
:27:41. > :27:45.back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the
:27:46. > :27:50.first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to
:27:51. > :27:54.stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of
:27:55. > :28:00.votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP.
:28:01. > :28:08.Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted
:28:09. > :28:11.for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as
:28:12. > :28:16.they had been intending to do - bubbly voted for a literal Democrat
:28:17. > :28:30.-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation In
:28:31. > :28:32.1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the
:28:33. > :28:36.Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral
:28:37. > :28:38.Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did
:28:39. > :28:42.look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a
:28:43. > :28:46.statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of
:28:47. > :28:51.which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description
:28:52. > :28:56.are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence
:28:57. > :29:00.Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely
:29:01. > :29:07.to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty
:29:08. > :29:11.conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe
:29:12. > :29:18.just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We
:29:19. > :29:20.attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo
:29:21. > :29:24.Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch
:29:25. > :29:30.member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now,
:29:31. > :29:36.nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting
:29:37. > :29:41.for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The
:29:42. > :29:44.party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year.
:29:45. > :29:50.The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining
:29:51. > :29:59.that a smaller party has been taking votes of them.
:30:00. > :30:03.Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler.
:30:04. > :30:06.He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get
:30:07. > :30:10.And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for
:30:11. > :30:24.How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party
:30:25. > :30:29.were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly
:30:30. > :30:34.for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a
:30:35. > :30:47.purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you
:30:48. > :30:49.would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the
:30:50. > :30:51.would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties
:30:52. > :30:57.people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people
:30:58. > :31:04.have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled
:31:05. > :31:10.ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the
:31:11. > :31:16.bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I
:31:17. > :31:30.want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is
:31:31. > :31:37.said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange
:31:38. > :31:44.for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than
:31:45. > :31:51.me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally
:31:52. > :31:55.been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been
:31:56. > :32:00.voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected
:32:01. > :32:04.anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What
:32:05. > :32:13.would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for
:32:14. > :32:17.her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions
:32:18. > :32:23.to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat
:32:24. > :32:30.for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share
:32:31. > :32:34.of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If
:32:35. > :32:39.he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could
:32:40. > :32:43.stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said
:32:44. > :32:50.we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and
:32:51. > :32:54.that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the
:32:55. > :33:04.Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for
:33:05. > :33:19.UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think
:33:20. > :33:24.happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt,
:33:25. > :33:28.the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really
:33:29. > :33:33.sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are
:33:34. > :33:37.the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is
:33:38. > :33:44.reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform -
:33:45. > :33:50.a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal
:33:51. > :33:57.process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks
:33:58. > :34:01.that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important
:34:02. > :34:05.to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and
:34:06. > :34:09.the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an
:34:10. > :34:15.Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote
:34:16. > :34:22.and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the
:34:23. > :34:26.south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote
:34:27. > :34:30.share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats
:34:31. > :34:34.in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The
:34:35. > :34:39.Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have
:34:40. > :34:46.ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral
:34:47. > :34:50.Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections
:34:51. > :34:54.generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, we should be looking at having 0,
:34:55. > :34:59.40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider
:35:00. > :35:04.proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept
:35:05. > :35:08.the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened
:35:09. > :35:15.is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the
:35:16. > :35:19.rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel
:35:20. > :35:24.Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,
:35:25. > :35:35.particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on
:35:36. > :35:40.Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None
:35:41. > :35:49.whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no
:35:50. > :35:54.redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything
:35:55. > :35:59.so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree
:36:00. > :36:07.with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown
:36:08. > :36:12.Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of
:36:13. > :36:18.accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We
:36:19. > :36:22.have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence
:36:23. > :36:29.which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it
:36:30. > :36:33.has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been
:36:34. > :36:39.massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything
:36:40. > :36:44.it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.
:36:45. > :36:48.Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral
:36:49. > :36:51.Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes
:36:52. > :36:55.decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is
:36:56. > :37:01.about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent
:37:02. > :37:07.people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?
:37:08. > :37:10.You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I
:37:11. > :37:12.do not think it should have a right to appeal.
:37:13. > :37:17.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:18. > :37:30.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism
:37:31. > :37:37.Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Comhng up in the North West: You're in s`fe
:37:38. > :37:42.hands. The country's youngest councillor tells us why he's thrown
:37:43. > :37:47.himself into politics. And joining me this week, the Labour MP for
:37:48. > :37:59.Heywood and Middleton, Jim Dobbin. And the Conservative MP for Chester,
:38:00. > :38:05.Stephen Mosley. The Queen's speech, exciting? It was. We have h`d some
:38:06. > :38:11.big hills in the last four xears. This is about making sure a lot of
:38:12. > :38:16.the things we want to do ard being done. Things like the anti`slavery
:38:17. > :38:24.bill. Bills to protect women and girls. Things to help pensioners.
:38:25. > :38:29.There is a lot in it. It is not radical. We have had some rdally
:38:30. > :38:33.radical policies like welfare and police reform. We are all aware this
:38:34. > :38:37.is the final year of Parlialent and it is about making sure we get
:38:38. > :38:42.something things done that light not have been priority in early years of
:38:43. > :38:49.government. Would you like to have seen more done? I am Michael I would
:38:50. > :38:54.like to have seen something about the health service. It was overall a
:38:55. > :38:58.short speech and I understand why. We are coming towards the end of a
:38:59. > :39:03.fixed term parliament and there will not be a lot of time to deb`te
:39:04. > :39:09.issues properly in the chamber. We have a summer break on the 22nd of
:39:10. > :39:17.July, then we are into Christmas after that and Parliament fhnishes
:39:18. > :39:24.in March next year. It is the rather futuristic bill as they werd seeing.
:39:25. > :39:32.It is a bit over the top for Labour to be condemning it as a zolbie
:39:33. > :39:35.Parliament? We have had one of the most radical governments evdr over
:39:36. > :39:44.the last four years and I do not think you can call it zombid. There
:39:45. > :39:47.have been some meaty changes. The scandal `` The scandal over the
:39:48. > :39:50.Rochdale care home where thd former Liberal MP Sir Cyril Smith hs
:39:51. > :39:54.alleged to have abused boys took a new turn this week. A former health
:39:55. > :39:57.worker says he's come to believe that a report he wrote into abuse at
:39:58. > :40:01.Knowl View was covered up bx the council at the time. And thd fallout
:40:02. > :40:02.over how the scandal's been handled has fuelled a coup within the
:40:03. > :40:08.Rochdale Labour Party resulting new leader. Euan Doak reports.
:40:09. > :41:46.Victory for Labour absolutely, I think they have made a
:41:47. > :41:52.wise choice in choosing Richard to be the leader of the council. He was
:41:53. > :41:57.the leader in the late 80s `nd the beginning of the 90s. I havd spoken
:41:58. > :42:01.to him on many occasions about the situation and he assured me he was
:42:02. > :42:06.never made aware of the abuse that was going on. Former leader Colin
:42:07. > :42:08.Lambert was deposed after bding criticised for his handling of this
:42:09. > :42:11.and other high`profile storhes. He believes once the QC's report is
:42:12. > :42:23.published a national enquirx is needed. It does not happen just here
:42:24. > :42:26.in Rochdale, it is happening in many communities. A full`blown n`tional
:42:27. > :42:41.inquiry needs to be held whhch will include evidence taken from here and
:42:42. > :42:53.other times and bars across the UK. `` towns and bars. `` boroughs. The
:42:54. > :42:59.results of the council inquhry are expected later in the summer. What
:43:00. > :43:06.do you think about him taking over as leader? I do not think it is wise
:43:07. > :43:11.at this time. He was leader of the council at the time these
:43:12. > :43:18.accusations were made. I do not think it is a clever thing for him
:43:19. > :43:25.to do. Collaborate, why do xou think it is a bad move? I think the
:43:26. > :43:30.inquiry that is ongoing or just about to start into this particular
:43:31. > :43:34.care home, which is in conjtnction with the police, because he was
:43:35. > :43:39.leader of the council at thd time these accusations were made. Even
:43:40. > :43:43.though he may not have known anything about it at all, I still
:43:44. > :43:49.think because of that it is wrong for him to be taking up leadership
:43:50. > :43:56.of the council at this time. He said he did not know anything about it.
:43:57. > :43:59.That may be true but that is not the perception that will be out there in
:44:00. > :44:05.the public arena in Rochdald. Because of that, it would bd more
:44:06. > :44:12.wise for him to take a back`seat at this stage. From an outsider's
:44:13. > :44:17.perspective it does not look good. To have the man who was in charge
:44:18. > :44:24.while this was going on and there are allegations of cover`up. From an
:44:25. > :44:28.outsider's point of view it does not look good that he is in charge while
:44:29. > :44:37.this investigation is going on. He should step down to allowed the full
:44:38. > :44:41.investigation to go ahead and pick up the reins afterwards. He is
:44:42. > :44:47.hardly going to step down when he has just stepped up. Back to you.
:44:48. > :44:54.You were deputy at the end part of this period, did you know anything?
:44:55. > :45:08.Not at all. The first time H had an inkling of this was when a xoung man
:45:09. > :45:18.came to see me in 1989 `` 98 D9 `` 99 to 2000. He made his alldgations
:45:19. > :45:24.about the treatment he recehved in that care home when he was ` young
:45:25. > :45:29.boy. At that time and after he came to see me I went to see the Chief
:45:30. > :45:33.Superintendent at the time. That is on record. He had a police
:45:34. > :45:38.investigation into this at the highest level and he came b`ck and
:45:39. > :45:45.told us there was no obvious evidence of what they were being
:45:46. > :45:52.accused of. We had to accept that at the time and I reported that back to
:45:53. > :45:59.the young man who came to sde me. Do you regret, in retrospect, not doing
:46:00. > :46:05.more? As bad as I was concerned I had done what a member of P`rliament
:46:06. > :46:11.should do. I took up the case and we got a response from the polhce. You
:46:12. > :46:16.well know that the Rochdale MP has publicly criticised you for not
:46:17. > :46:21.doing enough at the time? I Michael he criticises me all the tile, that
:46:22. > :46:26.is the sort of relationship we have unfortunately. I am not surprised he
:46:27. > :46:32.is saying things like that. At the same time, what we can say `bout the
:46:33. > :46:37.MP is that he has really drhven this. He has brought it to the
:46:38. > :46:44.attention of the House of Commons. Could you not have done that as one
:46:45. > :46:49.of the MPs as well? I think this is all in the back of the boots he has
:46:50. > :47:00.written about Cyril Smith. He has spent the last year researching
:47:01. > :47:06.this. `` the book. When I knew Cyril Smith he was adored and idolised by
:47:07. > :47:11.the community. I did not know anything else about what he might be
:47:12. > :47:15.involved with. I am not condoning anything that has come out recently
:47:16. > :47:25.but I think I did exactly what I had to do at the time. And what about
:47:26. > :47:32.the leader of the council? H think so, yes. He was not around hn the
:47:33. > :47:37.early part of this. My own view is that he did his very best ones he
:47:38. > :47:44.knew that this was on the agenda. He set up this inquiry. He has got the
:47:45. > :47:53.support of the Chief Constable. I have written to Sir Peter F`hy and
:47:54. > :48:00.the legal services in Rochd`le in support. OK, we will leave ht there.
:48:01. > :48:03.Remember your teenage years and it was hard enough getting out of bed,
:48:04. > :48:06.never mind into a polling station let alone standing for election
:48:07. > :48:09.Arguing about bin collections and budget cuts might not appeal to
:48:10. > :48:15.everyone. But for one 18`ye`r`old in Pendle it did, and he's now the
:48:16. > :48:19.country's youngest councillor. We sent a fresh`faced Stuart Pollitt to
:48:20. > :48:24.meet him. Like most 18`year`olds, Lyle Davy likes the pub, and he s
:48:25. > :48:32.into his football. But unlike most teenagers, he's also into local
:48:33. > :48:35.government. Lyle was inspirdd to go into politics when the Primd
:48:36. > :48:48.Minister spoke to him during a visit to Barnoldswick. The main thing he
:48:49. > :48:53.wanted to do was tell us how they were getting young people involved
:48:54. > :48:58.nationally. I went away and thought about it for a bit, then I was
:48:59. > :49:15.selected and went on the calpaign trail. He cold on a few fridnds to
:49:16. > :49:27.help out. We handed out leaflets. He has really got into it, he has done
:49:28. > :49:30.really well. So well that Lxle overturned a 300 plus Lib Ddm
:49:31. > :49:36.majority to become the first Tory to win his ward in more than 30 years.
:49:37. > :49:56.Youngsters in politics alwaxs makes us think of this. But Lyle hsn't the
:49:57. > :49:59.only young councillor in Pendle Across the country, councillors
:50:00. > :50:11.remain older with an averagd age of 60. Meetings are held in thd
:50:12. > :50:25.afternoon which if you are working makes it difficult to attend. While
:50:26. > :50:31.he might not look like local councillors are supposed to look, he
:50:32. > :50:37.got elected by doing what they are supposed to do, campaigning on local
:50:38. > :50:43.issues. People liked what I was doing and the fact I was local, I
:50:44. > :50:52.have done a lot of on the ground campaigning. Will we see yot in
:50:53. > :50:55.Parliament? Maybe one day. @nd Lyle believes his big step is a small
:50:56. > :50:59.step forward in encouraging more teens into politics. I think we have
:51:00. > :51:04.shown that young people can have the say and get results. And we're also
:51:05. > :51:06.joined by Rebecca Moore, who's Manchester's youngest counchllor
:51:07. > :51:14.after winning in last month's local elections aged 22. Is it a bit weird
:51:15. > :51:21.getting this involved in politics at this young an age? It is not that we
:51:22. > :51:25.do for myself. I have been ` member of the Labour Party for fivd years.
:51:26. > :51:31.I have been involved in campaigns both local and national but more
:51:32. > :51:38.recently got involved in my local constituency and I was asked if I
:51:39. > :51:45.had ever thought about standing I ended up getting selected and it is
:51:46. > :51:53.a community where 54% of thd population are my age and younger. I
:51:54. > :52:00.thought I could fit. I have been involved for a long time. It is very
:52:01. > :52:06.daunting but I am here now. You said you got involved at 17, what do you
:52:07. > :52:09.think gets people like you interested in politics when others
:52:10. > :52:16.at a young age are quite alhenating from it? I had the support of group
:52:17. > :52:20.around me who made it relathve to what I was interested in. For many
:52:21. > :52:26.young people they think thex political process is completely
:52:27. > :52:32.distanced from them. They do not relate to it. They cannot w`tch
:52:33. > :52:36.question Time or look at PMP 's and think that relates to something I am
:52:37. > :52:42.interested in. They do not think politicians cheer about what they
:52:43. > :52:46.think. I do not think they `re particularly interested, especially
:52:47. > :52:50.in this government. They ard not offering anything that might be of
:52:51. > :52:58.interest or support for the young people of this country. I think
:52:59. > :53:02.young people are interested in politics but not party politics
:53:03. > :53:08.They are interested in camp`igns, working for charities and what is
:53:09. > :53:13.happening in the world. In some ways that is a good thing becausd I think
:53:14. > :53:19.politics looks an awful lot better if you are not always head to head
:53:20. > :53:25.having party political battles but working together for the betterment
:53:26. > :53:32.of your own community. It is about wanting to change something and
:53:33. > :53:40.going to the ballot box to put your cross in the box. I have to make
:53:41. > :53:43.myself available so people can talk to me. When campaigns come through
:53:44. > :54:00.you have to respond and givd an honest answer. What do you think? I
:54:01. > :54:05.thinking graduations. Thank you I think the youth Parliament hs very
:54:06. > :54:11.important. I think you have got to look at life as a whole and very
:54:12. > :54:16.often when you get the result in politics it takes over your life.
:54:17. > :54:22.There are other issues you have to address and part of that is getting
:54:23. > :54:27.yourself a good education. Getting a job for yourself and some lhfetime
:54:28. > :54:34.experience. My involvement hs very similar. Going into schools. I
:54:35. > :54:38.remember going into one of ly high school and I started talking about
:54:39. > :54:43.how decisions were made in local government. I looked at the
:54:44. > :54:49.first`time voters and they were totally glazed. I stopped after two
:54:50. > :54:54.minutes and started asking puestions rather than talking at them.
:54:55. > :55:01.Afterwards I said to the politics teacher, a piece of advice, give
:55:02. > :55:05.them a grounding first before you ask politicians in to speak to
:55:06. > :55:13.youngsters like this, they need to know a bit of background first of
:55:14. > :55:17.all. What do you think? I think you can be political in communities when
:55:18. > :55:28.doing charity work but I do not think they necessarily relate that
:55:29. > :55:35.to party politics. 54% of mdn voted while only 34 think of women did. We
:55:36. > :55:41.need to look at either end. My e`mail is to fit a niche in
:55:42. > :55:50.Manchester City council that is not being addressed at the moment by
:55:51. > :55:56.politicians. How can MPs engage young people? I think it is great
:55:57. > :56:01.you both go out and talk to young people about the issues that matter
:56:02. > :56:06.to them but you need to ask what they care about and genuine racial
:56:07. > :56:11.and interest. Whether his education or whatever they are interested in
:56:12. > :56:20.India life, whether it is the price of the box and, I think it hs just
:56:21. > :56:32.about understanding. You nedd to use social media as well. Do yot use
:56:33. > :56:40.social media? I have started. I am a tweeter. It is when I am retired, it
:56:41. > :56:47.is used as a young person who will have to work and pay the tax to pay
:56:48. > :56:52.my pension. We want young pdople to get the skills and experience to go
:56:53. > :56:57.on and have good careers. Thank you for coming in. Time for the rest of
:56:58. > :56:59.the week's news now, here's 60 seconds. Plans for five supdr
:57:00. > :57:01.hospitals across Greater Manchester have been published. The Salford
:57:02. > :57:04.Royal, Oldham and The Manchdster Royal Infirmary could be three of
:57:05. > :57:12.them. It'll mean the downgr`ding of A E in three others. Transport us
:57:13. > :57:16.to a better future. A report by MPs said our roads and rail need more
:57:17. > :57:19.investment and that too much money is spent in London. The Labour MP
:57:20. > :57:22.for Bootle, Joe Benton, could lose his seat after party members voted
:57:23. > :57:27.to open up the selection process. Mr Benton, who's 80, says he w`nts to
:57:28. > :57:33.continue. The rain Party saxs plans to make shale gas extraction easier
:57:34. > :57:36.threaten the rights of homeowners. The Government wants to allow oil
:57:37. > :57:43.and gas companies to run pipelines under private land without the
:57:44. > :57:49.consent of owners. I am confident we will not see fracking in Brhtain,
:57:50. > :57:51.there is strong public opposition. And Liverpool City Council's
:57:52. > :57:54.announced plans for 1,500 ndw homes and the renovation of anothdr 1 000.
:57:55. > :58:05.The council hopes the schemd will attract ?200 million of private
:58:06. > :58:15.investment. Jim, those hosphtal proposals will affect your
:58:16. > :58:21.constituents. I have spent 34 years in the National Health Servhce, I
:58:22. > :58:25.have a good idea of what happens. I would remind you it is not `bout
:58:26. > :58:32.buildings but about quality of service. I have got no problems with
:58:33. > :58:37.the end these in actual fact possibly reducing. `` acciddnt and
:58:38. > :58:48.emergency departments possibly reducing. Possibly being redirected
:58:49. > :58:52.to a general unit. You get specialists. They are all bd linked
:58:53. > :59:00.with individual parts of thd body. That is why you need these
:59:01. > :59:09.specialist units. The changds have been proposed by the organisation
:59:10. > :59:14.that now commissions health care in Greater Manchester. Here's what they
:59:15. > :59:20.had to say. Standards will be raised. They will have that reliable
:59:21. > :59:26.clear there. If they have a once in a lifetime specialist issued then
:59:27. > :59:38.Kear will be available for them It is a dangerous thing we can figuring
:59:39. > :59:44.be helped service. `` care. There are some hospitals where thd death
:59:45. > :59:51.rates are much higher than others. That is because they do not have
:59:52. > :59:57.specialist staff. That is why you are much better specialising in many
:59:58. > :00:03.cases. We know the best place to go for cancer in the north`west and
:00:04. > :00:07.probably the UK. If we can do the same for things like heart `nd
:00:08. > :00:12.cardiovascular cases as well, if people know the hospital thdy go to
:00:13. > :00:14.is absolutely the best and they will get the best Kear, you have to
:00:15. > :00:24.ensure that. `` care. my guests. That is it for the Sunday
:00:25. > :00:40.Politics in London. Back to Andrew. Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker,
:00:41. > :01:09.will make we are joined by the founder of the
:01:10. > :02:54.Quilliam Association. If you read the Sunday Telegraph this morning,
:02:55. > :02:59.Quilliam Association. If you read up again and again in different
:03:00. > :03:03.situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my
:03:04. > :03:06.profession of you and planned infiltration? In my
:03:07. > :03:09.profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an
:03:10. > :03:22.Islamist organisation, having been involved
:03:23. > :03:22.Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very
:03:23. > :03:22.Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to
:03:23. > :03:27.influence the students of this country with a medieval
:03:28. > :03:30.interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative
:03:31. > :03:35.view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within
:03:36. > :03:42.our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were
:03:43. > :03:47.explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican
:03:48. > :03:53.faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.
:03:54. > :03:58.Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a
:03:59. > :04:04.policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this
:04:05. > :04:11.establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the
:04:12. > :04:15.solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working
:04:16. > :04:19.out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular
:04:20. > :04:23.and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is
:04:24. > :04:30.coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying
:04:31. > :04:34.about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very
:04:35. > :04:41.serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into
:04:42. > :04:44.intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You
:04:45. > :04:50.have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very
:04:51. > :04:54.often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or
:04:55. > :04:57.Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that
:04:58. > :05:02.leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think
:05:03. > :05:06.all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound
:05:07. > :05:11.problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish
:05:12. > :05:14.schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict
:05:15. > :05:20.Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get
:05:21. > :05:24.worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a
:05:25. > :05:28.problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state
:05:29. > :05:41.should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like
:05:42. > :05:47.France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take
:05:48. > :05:52.power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some
:05:53. > :05:55.schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than
:05:56. > :05:59.incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of
:06:00. > :06:05.this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you
:06:06. > :06:08.devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and
:06:09. > :06:13.behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary
:06:14. > :06:17.for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views
:06:18. > :06:22.that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe
:06:23. > :06:25.would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how
:06:26. > :06:29.tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that
:06:30. > :06:37.view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do
:06:38. > :06:42.expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the
:06:43. > :06:47.taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,
:06:48. > :06:50.educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated
:06:51. > :06:54.equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at
:06:55. > :06:58.which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,
:06:59. > :07:02.because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned
:07:03. > :07:07.about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.
:07:08. > :07:12.There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley
:07:13. > :07:16.Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating
:07:17. > :07:19.free schools and academies is undermined the work of local
:07:20. > :07:26.education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which
:07:27. > :07:32.are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of
:07:33. > :07:38.being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have
:07:39. > :07:42.the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary
:07:43. > :07:48.of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not
:07:49. > :07:51.that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the
:07:52. > :07:56.oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By
:07:57. > :08:03.tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you
:08:04. > :08:10.think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The
:08:11. > :08:14.story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report
:08:15. > :08:18.that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other
:08:19. > :08:22.report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in
:08:23. > :08:32.July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look
:08:33. > :08:37.at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even
:08:38. > :08:45.government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism
:08:46. > :08:49.became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed
:08:50. > :08:55.the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the
:08:56. > :09:01.argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They
:09:02. > :09:05.should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It
:09:06. > :09:15.was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a
:09:16. > :09:23.hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to
:09:24. > :09:36.resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just
:09:37. > :09:47.has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?
:09:48. > :09:51.You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping
:09:52. > :09:55.him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a
:09:56. > :09:59.massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal
:10:00. > :10:05.market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic
:10:06. > :10:11.decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he
:10:12. > :10:19.takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the
:10:20. > :10:22.beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British
:10:23. > :10:29.Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is
:10:30. > :10:36.reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.
:10:37. > :10:44.There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot
:10:45. > :10:49.of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from
:10:50. > :10:54.Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and
:10:55. > :10:58.drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could
:10:59. > :11:02.think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I
:11:03. > :11:05.remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when
:11:06. > :11:08.the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European
:11:09. > :11:14.constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the
:11:15. > :11:21.ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively
:11:22. > :11:25.rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You
:11:26. > :11:30.can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the
:11:31. > :11:32.people who have protested at the elections with the way the European
:11:33. > :11:55.Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What
:11:56. > :12:08.has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we
:12:09. > :12:11.go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink
:12:12. > :12:22.at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.
:12:23. > :12:26.Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define
:12:27. > :12:30.clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough
:12:31. > :12:34.for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the
:12:35. > :12:38.fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We
:12:39. > :12:44.need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,
:12:45. > :12:48.assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is
:12:49. > :12:56.what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to
:12:57. > :12:59.finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger
:13:00. > :13:05.people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually
:13:06. > :13:10.liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too
:13:11. > :13:16.late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the
:13:17. > :13:24.one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been
:13:25. > :13:29.doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight
:13:30. > :13:33.three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you
:13:34. > :13:51.are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be
:13:52. > :14:19.back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:14:20. > :14:21.What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?
:14:22. > :14:24.You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.
:14:25. > :14:28.It's like a big old question mark in your heart.