:00:35. > :00:41.There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next
:00:42. > :00:43.leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,
:00:44. > :00:50.This man might have something to say about that.
:00:51. > :00:52.Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.
:00:53. > :00:55.So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?
:00:56. > :01:01.The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane
:01:02. > :01:04.on the country's second city which has been in the hands of
:01:05. > :01:14.But what will be the fallout from this key clash?
:01:15. > :01:17.Hi, Marie, how are you? George!
:01:18. > :01:18.A welcome home, but George Osborne admits
:01:19. > :01:23.one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords
:01:24. > :01:28.be licensed to help tackle the squalor?
:01:29. > :01:31.And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political
:01:32. > :01:34.panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -
:01:35. > :01:43.The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided
:01:44. > :01:49.The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous
:01:50. > :01:54.Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".
:01:55. > :02:01.This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,
:02:02. > :02:03.announced that she would be running for the leadership.
:02:04. > :02:09.I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,
:02:10. > :02:11.and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is
:02:12. > :02:14.because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support
:02:15. > :02:18.And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures
:02:19. > :02:21.on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.
:02:22. > :02:25.Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me
:02:26. > :02:30.I know head office was besieged with letters in support.
:02:31. > :02:34.I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing
:02:35. > :02:37.of our members, because our members are the most important
:02:38. > :02:45.Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years
:02:46. > :02:48.and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.
:02:49. > :02:56.Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.
:02:57. > :03:03.Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be
:03:04. > :03:08.the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only
:03:09. > :03:13.amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the
:03:14. > :03:17.MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip
:03:18. > :03:22.needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is
:03:23. > :03:34.looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four
:03:35. > :03:36.step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an
:03:37. > :03:39.ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at
:03:40. > :03:44.all. Students of political history know that political parties take a
:03:45. > :03:49.long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is
:03:50. > :03:54.facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us
:03:55. > :03:59.on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am
:04:00. > :04:03.the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the
:04:04. > :04:07.party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common
:04:08. > :04:12.challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the
:04:13. > :04:17.last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I
:04:18. > :04:22.have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time
:04:23. > :04:27.away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done
:04:28. > :04:31.and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be
:04:32. > :04:36.the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very
:04:37. > :04:40.experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step
:04:41. > :04:47.in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night
:04:48. > :04:51.of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want
:04:52. > :05:00.that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party
:05:01. > :05:05.is facing an existential crisis, and I want to make sure that Ukip is on
:05:06. > :05:11.the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We
:05:12. > :05:18.have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to
:05:19. > :05:23.be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne
:05:24. > :05:27.would be an excellent candidate. I thought the 2015 manifesto was the
:05:28. > :05:30.best out of all the political parties. I would be the best
:05:31. > :05:37.candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within
:05:38. > :05:40.the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I
:05:41. > :05:48.could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain
:05:49. > :05:52.Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes,
:05:53. > :05:57.I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the
:05:58. > :06:02.next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership
:06:03. > :06:07.election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the
:06:08. > :06:13.new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the
:06:14. > :06:18.referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar
:06:19. > :06:24.schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have
:06:25. > :06:27.Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of
:06:28. > :06:33.March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a
:06:34. > :06:38.strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a
:06:39. > :06:42.huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party
:06:43. > :06:47.no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working
:06:48. > :06:51.people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to
:06:52. > :06:56.Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the
:06:57. > :07:00.north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class
:07:01. > :07:03.communities right across the country is. There are working-class
:07:04. > :07:17.communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a
:07:18. > :07:20.number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I
:07:21. > :07:23.believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so
:07:24. > :07:26.if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case.
:07:27. > :07:32.I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that
:07:33. > :07:40.called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to
:07:41. > :07:44.move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive
:07:45. > :07:49.Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and
:07:50. > :07:54.concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing
:07:55. > :07:59.my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the
:08:00. > :08:04.game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the
:08:05. > :08:08.candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you
:08:09. > :08:12.keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European
:08:13. > :08:16.Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we
:08:17. > :08:23.would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you
:08:24. > :08:27.think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win
:08:28. > :08:31.female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone
:08:32. > :08:37.out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't
:08:38. > :08:43.think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I
:08:44. > :08:45.wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think
:08:46. > :08:52.the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you
:08:53. > :08:57.win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first
:08:58. > :09:03.couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to
:09:04. > :09:08.factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of
:09:09. > :09:13.the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify,
:09:14. > :09:14.Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us
:09:15. > :09:17.this morning. We won't have to wait too long
:09:18. > :09:20.to find out who Ukip's new leader will be -
:09:21. > :09:30.the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for
:09:31. > :09:34.Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today
:09:35. > :09:41.is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or
:09:42. > :09:50.Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently
:09:51. > :09:57.Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip
:09:58. > :10:04.to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is
:10:05. > :10:11.a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst
:10:12. > :10:17.nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality
:10:18. > :10:21.difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne
:10:22. > :10:26.Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be
:10:27. > :10:32.taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the
:10:33. > :10:39.Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the
:10:40. > :10:51.Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things
:10:52. > :10:54.always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and
:10:55. > :11:03.Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much.
:11:04. > :11:11.But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best
:11:12. > :11:14.secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We
:11:15. > :11:21.have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch
:11:22. > :11:25.there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash
:11:26. > :11:31.we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond
:11:32. > :11:33.May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United
:11:34. > :11:41.Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May
:11:42. > :11:46.2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to
:11:47. > :11:50.start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that
:11:51. > :11:53.leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall
:11:54. > :11:55.see. In June 2014, the group which calls
:11:56. > :11:58.itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's
:11:59. > :12:00.second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced
:12:01. > :12:03.it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state,
:12:04. > :12:05.on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided
:12:06. > :12:14.by Iranian-backed Shia fighters, Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air
:12:15. > :12:19.support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb
:12:20. > :12:37.from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before
:12:38. > :12:42.it destroys them. These are the first steps
:12:43. > :12:45.in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has
:12:46. > :12:50.made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around
:12:51. > :12:54.2 million people means that they established governance,
:12:55. > :12:58.they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone,
:12:59. > :13:02.because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more
:13:03. > :13:06.than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric
:13:07. > :13:11.of another society. It's being billed as the biggest
:13:12. > :13:14.military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest
:13:15. > :13:18.moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces
:13:19. > :13:24.are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south,
:13:25. > :13:28.the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division,
:13:29. > :13:30.trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up
:13:31. > :13:37.of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South,
:13:38. > :13:43.a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused
:13:44. > :13:46.of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying
:13:47. > :13:49.villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel
:13:50. > :13:56.on the ground. To the North West, a corridor
:13:57. > :13:59.has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters,
:14:00. > :14:02.in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed
:14:03. > :14:05.when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle
:14:06. > :14:07.and it's taking place in the outlying villages
:14:08. > :14:09.and there have been some successes and some failures,
:14:10. > :14:13.but the momentum is building. And the real question will be
:14:14. > :14:15.when the attackers get towards the city itself,
:14:16. > :14:19.how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack
:14:20. > :14:27.within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back,
:14:28. > :14:31.on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk,
:14:32. > :14:33.including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds
:14:34. > :14:36.of thousands of families have been rounded up
:14:37. > :14:38.as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody,
:14:39. > :14:43.but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army,
:14:44. > :14:45.the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements,
:14:46. > :14:49.they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not
:14:50. > :14:52.for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want
:14:53. > :14:55.to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni
:14:56. > :15:00.majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have
:15:01. > :15:04.helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis
:15:05. > :15:06.Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something
:15:07. > :15:10.from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames
:15:11. > :15:13.and was then carved up, it is because that is what is
:15:14. > :15:17.happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut
:15:18. > :15:21.across by other identities such And that means that putting together
:15:22. > :15:32.a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be
:15:33. > :15:37.a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq
:15:38. > :15:41.at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul
:15:42. > :15:44.is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant
:15:45. > :15:47.which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that
:15:48. > :15:50.come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing
:15:51. > :15:53.but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International
:15:54. > :16:02.Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was
:16:03. > :16:05.the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following
:16:06. > :16:20.the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some
:16:21. > :16:31.stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first
:16:32. > :16:33.thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being
:16:34. > :16:37.the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident
:16:38. > :16:45.predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi
:16:46. > :16:51.forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I
:16:52. > :17:00.would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one
:17:01. > :17:04.STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces.
:17:05. > :17:12.June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and
:17:13. > :17:16.they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million
:17:17. > :17:20.people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they
:17:21. > :17:24.have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of
:17:25. > :17:28.Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about
:17:29. > :17:32.territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from
:17:33. > :17:40.Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow
:17:41. > :17:43.to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's
:17:44. > :17:46.presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including
:17:47. > :17:53.the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press
:17:54. > :17:58.into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the
:17:59. > :18:05.caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into
:18:06. > :18:10.Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from
:18:11. > :18:15.people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important
:18:16. > :18:20.principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a
:18:21. > :18:27.common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi
:18:28. > :18:31.government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis
:18:32. > :18:34.especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are
:18:35. > :18:40.difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very
:18:41. > :18:44.detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario
:18:45. > :18:53.will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps,
:18:54. > :19:01.refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that
:19:02. > :19:04.is where money, British money, ?40 million has gone recently into
:19:05. > :19:12.supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The
:19:13. > :19:15.United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one
:19:16. > :19:19.third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what
:19:20. > :19:23.is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee
:19:24. > :19:28.can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian
:19:29. > :19:33.fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen
:19:34. > :19:37.it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in
:19:38. > :19:42.about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has
:19:43. > :19:46.been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the
:19:47. > :19:49.accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and
:19:50. > :19:54.we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are
:19:55. > :19:58.right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is
:19:59. > :20:01.asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this
:20:02. > :20:05.week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city
:20:06. > :20:11.have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high
:20:12. > :20:16.in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can
:20:17. > :20:19.imagine the different scenarios, it could be a few thousand and it could
:20:20. > :20:22.be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line
:20:23. > :20:27.where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen
:20:28. > :20:31.those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and
:20:32. > :20:35.transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The
:20:36. > :20:38.people working on this have been working on this for long time, we
:20:39. > :20:45.have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in
:20:46. > :20:49.place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other
:20:50. > :20:53.areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan.
:20:54. > :20:56.It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the
:20:57. > :21:03.preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably
:21:04. > :21:09.be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken,
:21:10. > :21:14.the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the
:21:15. > :21:18.rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the
:21:19. > :21:24.second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be
:21:25. > :21:29.rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni
:21:30. > :21:37.community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are
:21:38. > :21:39.right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt
:21:40. > :21:44.excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad
:21:45. > :21:51.government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State
:21:52. > :21:56.coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a
:21:57. > :22:00.stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing
:22:01. > :22:05.structures are in place. The UK's response is twofold, we have got to
:22:06. > :22:08.get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might
:22:09. > :22:13.be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is
:22:14. > :22:18.working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul
:22:19. > :22:23.we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the
:22:24. > :22:28.Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant,
:22:29. > :22:34.it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in
:22:35. > :22:40.Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is,
:22:41. > :22:45.if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to
:22:46. > :22:49.look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its
:22:50. > :22:55.terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a
:22:56. > :22:59.group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it
:23:00. > :23:05.changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things. In
:23:06. > :23:10.2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when
:23:11. > :23:14.it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past
:23:15. > :23:18.it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.
:23:19. > :23:22.There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it
:23:23. > :23:27.will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the
:23:28. > :23:31.United States -- that could. They say that is something they have
:23:32. > :23:35.focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism
:23:36. > :23:43.security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe
:23:44. > :23:49.say. One final question. -- say. -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could
:23:50. > :23:55.add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?
:23:56. > :24:00.Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the
:24:01. > :24:03.biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the
:24:04. > :24:08.reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee
:24:09. > :24:12.camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --
:24:13. > :24:15.put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is
:24:16. > :24:18.their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that
:24:19. > :24:23.means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the
:24:24. > :24:27.medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an
:24:28. > :24:31.economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK
:24:32. > :24:38.National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and
:24:39. > :24:41.terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence
:24:42. > :24:58.Secretary. Does Labour support British
:24:59. > :25:02.participation in this offensive? We fully support the participation in
:25:03. > :25:08.this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this
:25:09. > :25:11.back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I
:25:12. > :25:18.was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive
:25:19. > :25:21.but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that
:25:22. > :25:27.has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full
:25:28. > :25:32.stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity
:25:33. > :25:35.and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn
:25:36. > :25:37.has said. What's been done in Iraq
:25:38. > :25:39.is done by the Iraqi government, and currently
:25:40. > :25:41.supported by the British government. I did not support it
:25:42. > :25:44.when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful
:25:45. > :25:47.it's been, because most of the action now appears to be
:25:48. > :25:59.moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.
:26:00. > :26:01.The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory
:26:02. > :26:07.Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous
:26:08. > :26:11.offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to
:26:12. > :26:17.be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.
:26:18. > :26:22.Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things
:26:23. > :26:27.have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is
:26:28. > :26:32.working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.
:26:33. > :26:35.We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk
:26:36. > :26:40.operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are
:26:41. > :26:47.living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question
:26:48. > :26:50.shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last
:26:51. > :26:55.major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of
:26:56. > :26:59.Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because
:27:00. > :27:05.we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It
:27:06. > :27:08.is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as
:27:09. > :27:11.Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the
:27:12. > :27:18.city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was
:27:19. > :27:22.about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special
:27:23. > :27:27.forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a
:27:28. > :27:39.strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq
:27:40. > :27:52.of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we
:27:53. > :27:55.can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they
:27:56. > :28:01.are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time
:28:02. > :28:03.we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.
:28:04. > :28:09.I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next
:28:10. > :28:15.manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will. We
:28:16. > :28:19.made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will
:28:20. > :28:21.honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that
:28:22. > :28:25.is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has
:28:26. > :28:31.been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote
:28:32. > :28:37.up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy
:28:38. > :28:41.and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK
:28:42. > :28:46.to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral
:28:47. > :28:51.disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.
:28:52. > :28:55.Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has
:28:56. > :29:01.happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been
:29:02. > :29:05.taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the
:29:06. > :29:09.conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to
:29:10. > :29:15.Trident -- vote. The review can't change that? There is a process of
:29:16. > :29:21.review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do
:29:22. > :29:25.this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We
:29:26. > :29:31.are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main
:29:32. > :29:34.strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we
:29:35. > :29:37.have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure
:29:38. > :29:42.that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we
:29:43. > :29:47.should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing
:29:48. > :29:50.humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court
:29:51. > :29:57.over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat
:29:58. > :30:02.imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let
:30:03. > :30:04.us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European
:30:05. > :30:11.initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain
:30:12. > :30:13.should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.
:30:14. > :30:19.Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle
:30:20. > :30:22.being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria
:30:23. > :30:25.has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's
:30:26. > :30:28.five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,
:30:29. > :30:31.in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English
:30:32. > :30:35.channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest
:30:36. > :30:38.surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought
:30:39. > :30:41.to be preparation for a final assault
:30:42. > :30:45.on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting
:30:46. > :30:49.resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -
:30:50. > :30:54.with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's
:30:55. > :30:57.rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been
:30:58. > :31:00.killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,
:31:01. > :31:04.backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned
:31:05. > :31:12.Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow
:31:13. > :31:14.of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support
:31:15. > :31:18.of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided
:31:19. > :31:22.on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied
:31:23. > :31:24.with domestic politics, President Putin senses this
:31:25. > :31:28.is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former
:31:29. > :31:36.Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master
:31:37. > :31:50.of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC
:31:51. > :31:56.studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to
:31:57. > :32:01.get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the
:32:02. > :32:06.commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New
:32:07. > :32:12.York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.
:32:13. > :32:16.Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in
:32:17. > :32:23.control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles
:32:24. > :32:27.wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it
:32:28. > :32:37.inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what
:32:38. > :32:42.President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce
:32:43. > :32:47.bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the
:32:48. > :32:52.Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when
:32:53. > :32:58.the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they
:32:59. > :33:02.went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking
:33:03. > :33:08.about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of
:33:09. > :33:12.the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The
:33:13. > :33:17.purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and
:33:18. > :33:22.then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more
:33:23. > :33:26.complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there
:33:27. > :33:30.was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so
:33:31. > :33:35.many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of
:33:36. > :33:45.the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been
:33:46. > :33:47.rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?
:33:48. > :33:51.Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier
:33:52. > :33:56.steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,
:33:57. > :34:02.both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved
:34:03. > :34:08.in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the
:34:09. > :34:12.ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the
:34:13. > :34:19.aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the
:34:20. > :34:24.rebel controlled area does fall, it would be seen as a great victory for
:34:25. > :34:29.President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia
:34:30. > :34:33.here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan
:34:34. > :34:40.that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia
:34:41. > :34:43.went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.
:34:44. > :34:49.President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or
:34:50. > :34:53.its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the
:34:54. > :34:59.argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the
:35:00. > :35:07.only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue
:35:08. > :35:16.argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.
:35:17. > :35:20.They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence
:35:21. > :35:27.at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to
:35:28. > :35:34.push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.
:35:35. > :35:39.Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.
:35:40. > :35:44.The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted
:35:45. > :35:49.by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there
:35:50. > :35:59.is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that
:36:00. > :36:04.part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to
:36:05. > :36:09.admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric
:36:10. > :36:14.from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are
:36:15. > :36:19.an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in
:36:20. > :36:25.the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging
:36:26. > :36:30.with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the
:36:31. > :36:35.place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in
:36:36. > :36:40.the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a
:36:41. > :36:45.country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is
:36:46. > :36:51.now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important
:36:52. > :36:55.message. Looking at the economy. It is in recession. GDP has been
:36:56. > :37:01.falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on
:37:02. > :37:06.hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling
:37:07. > :37:11.again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its
:37:12. > :37:17.GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy.
:37:18. > :37:26.Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it
:37:27. > :37:32.help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy
:37:33. > :37:38.was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of
:37:39. > :37:43.the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one
:37:44. > :37:47.hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort
:37:48. > :37:55.out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be
:37:56. > :38:00.danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential
:38:01. > :38:05.election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel
:38:06. > :38:10.he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so
:38:11. > :38:11.well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very
:38:12. > :38:14.much. We say goodbye to viewers
:38:15. > :38:40.in Scotland who leave us now Hi, Marie, how are you?
:38:41. > :38:44.George! A warm welcome home for the local
:38:45. > :38:47.MP, but did this backbencher I don't think, you know now,
:38:48. > :38:51.I properly understood the sense that people had in many communities
:38:52. > :38:54.and I think many people used the EU And here for their weekly
:38:55. > :38:57.confessional are Andrew Bingham, the Conservative MP for High Peak,
:38:58. > :39:00.and Barbara Keeley, the Labour MP for Worsley and Eccles South,
:39:01. > :39:02.who was recently promoted to Shadow Minister for
:39:03. > :39:04.Mental Health and Social Care. So, Barbara, why have
:39:05. > :39:06.you be joined the Cabinet? So, Barbara, why have
:39:07. > :39:08.you rejoined the Cabinet? I actually wasn't in
:39:09. > :39:10.the Cabinet before. I really have worked on social care
:39:11. > :39:15.and believe that the issues that now in a role to take forward
:39:16. > :39:18.are the most important issues I'm very pleased to be
:39:19. > :39:21.offered that job. Labour this week said that
:39:22. > :39:23.Angela Eagle's complaints were upheld about homophobic abuse.
:39:24. > :39:26.I know. And they said that the Wallasey
:39:27. > :39:28.constituency party was divided and toxic.
:39:29. > :39:33.Do you think it is? Well, I don't know personally,
:39:34. > :39:36.but clearly no MP should have that situation in their local party
:39:37. > :39:39.and I support Angela as a colleague, she's a great colleague,
:39:40. > :39:41.she doesn't deserve to have abuse of any sort, particularly
:39:42. > :39:43.not homophobic abuse, What about the party
:39:44. > :39:48.more broadly, though? Well, we don't have that
:39:49. > :39:52.so much in Salford. It's difficult to say when it's
:39:53. > :39:59.not your own local situation, but I think we've been through not
:40:00. > :40:06.the easiest of summers, have we? And I think it's important
:40:07. > :40:08.now that we unite. We've got an enormous job in front
:40:09. > :40:11.of us in Parliament and holding the government to account,
:40:12. > :40:14.in my case in terms And, you know, really we need
:40:15. > :40:18.to get on with doing that. Andrew, your party appears to be
:40:19. > :40:20.split about whether we should MPs and ministers saying
:40:21. > :40:24.that they should get on with it before Brexit
:40:25. > :40:26.start causing a problem. I don't think we should
:40:27. > :40:32.have an early election at all, I don't think the party
:40:33. > :40:34.is split on it. I speak to colleagues and,
:40:35. > :40:36.no, we don't want The General Election is 2020,
:40:37. > :40:39.the Fixed-term Parliaments Act took care of that and,
:40:40. > :40:43.following the Brexit. The last thing we need is more
:40:44. > :40:47.uncertainty with the General Election, so I would not
:40:48. > :40:49.support a General Election until when it is scheduled in 2020,
:40:50. > :40:52.which is what As Barbara's in-box gets busier,
:40:53. > :40:56.one local MP with less The former Chancellor is now
:40:57. > :41:00.a backbencher after Theresa May Our Cheshire reporter, Phil McCann,
:41:01. > :41:03.caught up with Mr Osborne in his Tatton constituency to chat
:41:04. > :41:05.through Brexit, boundary changes Hi, Marie, how are you?
:41:06. > :41:12.George! I'm fine.
:41:13. > :41:15.Aw, it's great to see you. It's a cafe, it's a community
:41:16. > :41:25.centre, it's a place where people, if they want help getting a job,
:41:26. > :41:28.come, you look after our elderly residents,
:41:29. > :41:32.look after young people. 59-year-old carpenter
:41:33. > :41:35.from Newcastle-upon-Tyne, grafted all his life
:41:36. > :41:40.and couldn't get a penny! It gives you time to think a bit
:41:41. > :41:44.about life, think about what you can do for the community you represent,
:41:45. > :41:48.think about mistakes I've made and how we can put them right,
:41:49. > :41:52.not least, you know, why the country voted the way
:41:53. > :41:56.it did in the referendum that You can't talk about mistakes
:41:57. > :42:00.you've made without me asking Look, I don't think, you know,
:42:01. > :42:10.I properly understood the sense that people had in many communities,
:42:11. > :42:13.particularly in the North of England, that they were completely
:42:14. > :42:15.disconnected from the system and from the way
:42:16. > :42:19.our country is governed, that they felt angry about things,
:42:20. > :42:22.and I think many people used the EU referendum
:42:23. > :42:24.to express that anger. I aim to form a proper and full
:42:25. > :42:27.coalition between the Conservatives When I became the Chancellor
:42:28. > :42:35.in 2010, the country was in an economic crisis
:42:36. > :42:38.and all of my efforts, my energy, But having fixed the economy,
:42:39. > :42:46.then it's the chance to say, "Well, what can we do for
:42:47. > :42:53.communities who feel left behind?" You know, sometimes the statistics
:42:54. > :42:56.can I think mask economic insecurity out there,
:42:57. > :42:57.that isn't always obvious. Tonight at Ten, the radical plans
:42:58. > :43:00.to change the parliamentary The plans would mean, for example,
:43:01. > :43:06.Wales losing a quarter of its seats and dozens of MPs,
:43:07. > :43:08.including Jeremy Corbyn and George Osborne, looking
:43:09. > :43:12.for a new constituency. You know, the communities don't
:43:13. > :43:17.disappear, they're still here, and I am going to absolutely
:43:18. > :43:20.be determined to represent a Cheshire constituency
:43:21. > :43:22.at the next General Election and then, of course, it will be
:43:23. > :43:26.up to the people of Cheshire Which would inevitably
:43:27. > :43:31.mean you having to fight it out with somebody,
:43:32. > :43:33.because there's going to be one fewer seat.
:43:34. > :43:35.Let's see what happens. But I'm pretty confident,
:43:36. > :43:38.not only that we'll go on having great Conservative MPs in Cheshire,
:43:39. > :43:40.but I will be one of And you won't be disappearing off
:43:41. > :43:45.to some safe seat in the South? More than 2,000 jobs to go
:43:46. > :43:48.in Cheshire as AstraZeneca I'm told last-minute intervention
:43:49. > :43:54.from the local MP, one George Osborne, stopped
:43:55. > :43:57.the company's real intentions - That was a really very difficult
:43:58. > :44:04.day, but this facility is amazing and the stuff happening
:44:05. > :44:06.here is better than anything The Northern Powerhouse
:44:07. > :44:14.is what I want to be remembered for, There was a member of Parliament
:44:15. > :44:19.who threw everything in to reversing that North-South gap,
:44:20. > :44:21.getting the cities and counties of the North working together
:44:22. > :44:24.and, as a result, make a difference Philip Hammond is the Chancellor,
:44:25. > :44:29.so Philip Hammond moves from the Foreign Office to
:44:30. > :44:34.next door, into Number 11. I can also tell you he's resigned
:44:35. > :44:37.from the government, that's what we're hearing,
:44:38. > :44:40.that Osborne is not going to get a job in the government,
:44:41. > :44:44.or he's been offered one and hasn't taken it,
:44:45. > :44:46.but we understand that he has And would you to serve
:44:47. > :44:50.in the Cabinet and possibly I'm happy where I am at the moment,
:44:51. > :44:53.doing my job. It's very refreshing to get out
:44:54. > :44:56.of the armoured cars, get out of the gates, from behind
:44:57. > :45:00.the gates of Downing Street, and go back to what in the end
:45:01. > :45:03.the job is all about, which is representing
:45:04. > :45:05.an area in Parliament But you wouldn't say no
:45:06. > :45:08.if you asked, though? But you wouldn't say no
:45:09. > :45:11.if you were asked, though? Phil McCann reporting there,
:45:12. > :45:14.with George Osborne, who thinks the Northern Powerhouse
:45:15. > :45:16.should be his legacy. Well, I mean, from the point of view
:45:17. > :45:20.of Greater Manchester MP, which I am, you know,
:45:21. > :45:23.it's good to have the powers that you've got over health
:45:24. > :45:31.and social care, which was part of the devolution,
:45:32. > :45:33.but to be honest, the issue We've got a 1.2 billion at least
:45:34. > :45:37.Black hole and the finances for our health and social care.
:45:38. > :45:39.I mean, Northern Powerhouse? All across the North West,
:45:40. > :45:42.our local authorities are really pressed, they had their funding cut,
:45:43. > :45:44.funding has really been cut for social care,
:45:45. > :45:47.so all the things that people really need day-to-day, you know,
:45:48. > :45:49.he's responsible for cutting, and has left us in that state,
:45:50. > :45:52.really, so I don't think Is it that the legacy, then, Andrew?
:45:53. > :45:57.No, I think... He's handed over the powers,
:45:58. > :46:00.but not the money to make it work? I disagree with that,
:46:01. > :46:02.as you would expect. I mean, George was handed a very
:46:03. > :46:05.difficult job back in the days of the coalition government,
:46:06. > :46:07.as the famous letter, But he's already made it possible
:46:08. > :46:11.for councils to have the 2% levy on the council tax for social care,
:46:12. > :46:13.which is good... But it's not enough,
:46:14. > :46:15.that's the point. And there's the Better Care Fund,
:46:16. > :46:18.where there is another "one point something" billion pounds available.
:46:19. > :46:19.In 2019. By 2019, so the money
:46:20. > :46:22.is going in there. But I do think in terms
:46:23. > :46:25.of social care... But Barbara is right in that
:46:26. > :46:28.will not cover the increase in cost But it's putting more
:46:29. > :46:31.money to local councils. The council will become more
:46:32. > :46:33.autonomous as we go on. So they will not be reliant
:46:34. > :46:35.on central government funding. But I do think the whole issue
:46:36. > :46:38.of adult social care, there are several what I would
:46:39. > :46:40.call several unexploded I think adult social care is one
:46:41. > :46:45.that we need to keep looking at. We talk about things
:46:46. > :46:47.like obesity in the young. I think that's something else
:46:48. > :46:49.we need to keep looking at, because they are the things
:46:50. > :46:52.that are going to manifest themselves further down
:46:53. > :46:54.the line in different ways, particularly in terms
:46:55. > :46:56.of the health service as well. Barbara, you can't deny though
:46:57. > :46:58.that he has put the focus on the North?
:46:59. > :47:01.He has talked up the North? He has put the focus on the north,
:47:02. > :47:06.but there's the danger giving powers, which is welcome -
:47:07. > :47:09.I mean, I know that the local council leaders really welcome
:47:10. > :47:11.the powers, in different parts of the North West, Merseyside
:47:12. > :47:13.as well as Greater Manchester - but they are just going to get
:47:14. > :47:16.the blame, you know, If we can't hold health and care
:47:17. > :47:21.together, and it's no good giving finance for social care in 2019,
:47:22. > :47:23.and many councils, like Salford, Manchester, cannot raise enough
:47:24. > :47:27.out of the 2% precept But council leaders are saying
:47:28. > :47:35.finally they have the freedom to decide how to spend
:47:36. > :47:36.the money themselves. Yeah, but you're spending not enough
:47:37. > :47:39.money, and that's no help. I mean, this year, there wasn't
:47:40. > :47:42.enough in that 2% to even pay the National Living Wage increase,
:47:43. > :47:45.which had to be paid, so there's a confusion of policy
:47:46. > :47:48.that come out and yet not the funding and it's not fair,
:47:49. > :47:50.it's not at all reasonable to leave council leaders
:47:51. > :47:53.as being the ones to sort that out. The 2% levy, though,
:47:54. > :47:55.gives the opportunity to raise an extra ?2 billion for social care.
:47:56. > :47:59.But if 2 billion is not enough... But there's the Better Care Fund,
:48:00. > :48:01.which will also put, I think it's about another
:48:02. > :48:03.?1.5 billion... In 2019!
:48:04. > :48:04...by 2019. But as I said, we need to keep
:48:05. > :48:08.looking at finding ways of doing it and finding better ways
:48:09. > :48:10.of social care. Well, on Twitter,
:48:11. > :48:11.regrets about Brexit. Do you think leading Project Fear
:48:12. > :48:15.was his biggest mistake? I think the whole campaign on the EU
:48:16. > :48:18.referendum, from both sides, had some questions to answer -
:48:19. > :48:21.the comments and statements made I voted to leave the European Union,
:48:22. > :48:26.but I was quite clear with my constituents
:48:27. > :48:30.that it was a referendum, it wasn't an election
:48:31. > :48:32.where I was asking people to vote They were voting for themselves
:48:33. > :48:37.and I made both sides of the arguments to my constituents,
:48:38. > :48:40.make them available, and I was asked by the BBC just
:48:41. > :48:44.before the 23rd of June which way would the High Peak vote and I said
:48:45. > :48:47.I think it'll be very close. My constituency voted marginally
:48:48. > :48:53.by about 600 to leave. And I think there were
:48:54. > :48:55.some misjudgements made. I think the motivation for people
:48:56. > :48:57.leaving, to leaving the EU, were various, but I do think
:48:58. > :49:00.there was an aspect of people thinking, "Well, we're sort
:49:01. > :49:03.of getting a bit fed up of politicians telling
:49:04. > :49:05.us what's good for us, and we're going to make our mind up
:49:06. > :49:08.and we think it's better for us to be out of the European Union."
:49:09. > :49:12.So the question is what next, then? Should Parliament
:49:13. > :49:13.have a say on this? I don't think we need to put it
:49:14. > :49:17.through a parliamentary vote at all. I think...
:49:18. > :49:18.Well, it's ridiculous! How are we taking back
:49:19. > :49:20.sovereignty and control if our Parliament doesn't
:49:21. > :49:22.have a say? Because the British people have
:49:23. > :49:24.voted to leave the European Union, it is now up to us
:49:25. > :49:29.to implement that... Yes, but we should
:49:30. > :49:33.There will be parliamentary scrutiny, through various select
:49:34. > :49:34.committees, and we will look at the...
:49:35. > :49:37.I mean, I sit on the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee.
:49:38. > :49:40.We're about to launch an enquiry as to how Brexit will affect
:49:41. > :49:42.that aspect and I suspect the other select committees
:49:43. > :49:46.Well, we've had Andy Burnham come out and say there
:49:47. > :49:48.should be a Northern voice in the negotiations.
:49:49. > :49:51.Tim Farron's raised concerns about funding.
:49:52. > :49:53.There is no clarity, is there, really?
:49:54. > :49:57.There's been a mess in Parliament since June the 23rd,
:49:58. > :49:59.because nothing was worked on and the people who campaigned
:50:00. > :50:02.for Brexit didn't have a firm idea of the terms that they wanted,
:50:03. > :50:05.so we are still arguing, "Are we going to have access
:50:06. > :50:08.Are our finance companies going to be able to trade?
:50:09. > :50:11.Can EU nationals stay here? Can UK nationals stay in the EU?"
:50:12. > :50:19.But it's wrong, it's totally wrong on the basis on which people thought
:50:20. > :50:21.it was to take back control if then our Parliament,
:50:22. > :50:23.our sovereign Parliament, doesn't have a say.
:50:24. > :50:25.But it was a pretty clear resounding...
:50:26. > :50:26.It was clear that... People wanted to leave.
:50:27. > :50:29.But not the terms. It's the terms of leaving.
:50:30. > :50:33.So the leaving, everybody respects that, I respect that,
:50:34. > :50:34.we all respect that as parliamentarians,
:50:35. > :50:37.but it's the terms and the terms are very different.
:50:38. > :50:40.Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit - they mean a lot of different things.
:50:41. > :50:42.You know, inflation is affected, jobs are affected.
:50:43. > :50:45.So then, should there be a vote on the deal that we get?
:50:46. > :50:47.Yes, there should, I absolutely believe
:50:48. > :50:50.And that is what we are our going for.
:50:51. > :50:53.But would you potentially vote no on that if you're not happy with it?
:50:54. > :50:56.Even though people in...? No, it's the terms of the exit.
:50:57. > :51:00.Do you go for a Hard Brexit, where we are out
:51:01. > :51:04.Or do you say that we must have access to the single market?
:51:05. > :51:06.Andrew, should the government be publishing more about
:51:07. > :51:08.what it wants to achieve? I mean, we can't...
:51:09. > :51:11.As has already been said, we can't publish a running
:51:12. > :51:13.commentary of how it's going to... Because you don't know.
:51:14. > :51:15.That's not the case. I think it is.
:51:16. > :51:17.Like anything in life, the negotiation like this, I mean...
:51:18. > :51:23.I think the way we should do it, I mean, there were so many EU
:51:24. > :51:26.directives that affect the country and I think we need to look at them
:51:27. > :51:28.carefully and I'm not saying that every EU directive...
:51:29. > :51:33.Should the priority be rejucing immigration
:51:34. > :51:36.I think to say an individual priority now would be wrong.
:51:37. > :51:39.I think we need to look at all the different issues,
:51:40. > :51:42.the various, the many, many EU directives that we are subjected to.
:51:43. > :51:44.But this is the wooliness we are getting in Parliament.
:51:45. > :51:47.Barbara, I didn't interrupt you, if you let me get to the point.
:51:48. > :51:50.We can look at the EU directives that we are influenced by.
:51:51. > :51:54.I am not saying they are all bad, I am not saying they are all good,
:51:55. > :51:57.we have already given some clarity along the lines of agricultural
:51:58. > :51:59.sector, because they are concerned because of the money that comes
:52:00. > :52:03.So we can eliminate some of the concerns now
:52:04. > :52:06.but as the Prime Minister said, we need to look at this and think
:52:07. > :52:08.about it before we invoke Article 50 in 2017.
:52:09. > :52:10.Barbara, what needs to happen next to reassure people
:52:11. > :52:14.That the government does have a plan?
:52:15. > :52:16.People thought that we were taking back control, taking back
:52:17. > :52:20.sovereignty, so Parliament is meant to be sovereign,
:52:21. > :52:23.it should have a vote and to say that, "Let's look
:52:24. > :52:25.at the directives," the great repeal bill that you've suggested will not
:52:26. > :52:27.come into Parliament until after Article 50
:52:28. > :52:31.We need to know the terms on which we are leaving the EU
:52:32. > :52:36.We have just appointed Keir Starmer, and Hilary Benn is going to be
:52:37. > :52:39.I think they will fight for the position
:52:40. > :52:40.I've just outlined. OK, thank you.
:52:41. > :52:45.Well, George Osborne may have more time for Cheshire,
:52:46. > :52:50.has decided the county's not for him.
:52:51. > :52:53.Mr Woolfe recently moved his family from Chester to Hampshire
:52:54. > :52:56.and has now quit the party as well after his spat
:52:57. > :53:03.Mr Woolfe didn't want to speak to us, but Ukip's North West
:53:04. > :53:05.President, Phil Griffiths, joins us now from Liverpool.
:53:06. > :53:11.So, Mr Woolfe says your party is in a death spiral.
:53:12. > :53:16.We have grown from strength to strength.
:53:17. > :53:21.Yeah, in fact, every party has the turbulence that
:53:22. > :53:24.we've experienced over the last couple of weeks or so.
:53:25. > :53:27.The Labour Party is still going through it and there are
:53:28. > :53:32.So I don't see that as a big problem.
:53:33. > :53:36.We had a very unfortunate situation with Diane James standing down.
:53:37. > :53:38.And then there was the incident in Starsbourg...
:53:39. > :53:41.She didn't think the party was manageable, did she?
:53:42. > :53:45.I don't recall what she said at all about that.
:53:46. > :53:48.But we've got to put that behind us. That's in the past.
:53:49. > :53:50.We've got to get on with the future
:53:51. > :53:58.Well, your new leader quit after a number of days.
:53:59. > :54:00.The person deemed to be favourite described the party
:54:01. > :54:04.Is there any way back for Ukip from this?
:54:05. > :54:07.There is. Steven didn't get his own way.
:54:08. > :54:09.That is where I think he is feeling the bitterness from.
:54:10. > :54:12.You know, that is up to him. And that this it.
:54:13. > :54:14.We would have liked him to stay but he didn't.
:54:15. > :54:16.So there is a new leadership campaign starting.
:54:17. > :54:18.I am personally backing Paul Nuttall.
:54:19. > :54:22.OK, thank you, Phil. That's my pleasure!
:54:23. > :54:25.So, Barbara, Steven Woolfe has moved out of the region, 200 miles away.
:54:26. > :54:27.He now says he is no longer representing the party
:54:28. > :54:32.He is an MEP, proportional representation - should there be
:54:33. > :54:35.a mechanism for replacing him, because he is no longer
:54:36. > :54:38.Yeah, and I think that is unfortunate because there
:54:39. > :54:42.We've been talking about the work in Parliament.
:54:43. > :54:44.There is an awful lot of linking to what is happening
:54:45. > :54:52.We don't want to see people fighting there, but working there,
:54:53. > :54:56.and the North West is missing out if they don't have all our
:54:57. > :54:58.representatives, but I know that the Labour MEPs are doing
:54:59. > :55:01.And, Andrew, this altercation apparently happened
:55:02. > :55:03.after he was flirting with your party,
:55:04. > :55:07.Well, I was never particularly keen to have him in
:55:08. > :55:10.And he's certainly not been flirting with me,
:55:11. > :55:14.I've not met Mr Woolfe and I don't know his
:55:15. > :55:16.intentions, but I do agree - to see politicians
:55:17. > :55:18.of any party fighting doesn't bring our profession
:55:19. > :55:21.I wish they wouldn't do it. OK.
:55:22. > :55:24.West Lancashire and Wirral councils this week followed Liverpool's lead
:55:25. > :55:28.in urging local newsagents to stop selling the Sun newspaper.
:55:29. > :55:31.The country's biggest-selling daily has long been boycotted by many
:55:32. > :55:33.in the area over its coverage of the Hillsborough disaster.
:55:34. > :55:36.in the area over its coverage of the Hillsborough Disaster.
:55:37. > :55:37.But should local authorities be getting involved?
:55:38. > :55:44.A question for our reporter Mat Trewern.
:55:45. > :55:48.Do I wish to God that I had never done that front page?
:55:49. > :56:05.The newspaper's infamous headline and coverage continues to cause hurt
:56:06. > :56:09.And this week, two more councils voted to encourage shops
:56:10. > :56:15.I was at Hillsborough and I lost a very good friend.
:56:16. > :56:20.This paper has never accepted the fact that they printed a lie
:56:21. > :56:22.that had a massive impact impact throughout the 90s on the economy
:56:23. > :56:24.of Merseyside and the people of Merseyside.
:56:25. > :56:32.And that is the thing that you can never forgive.
:56:33. > :56:34.And all I am asking retailers to do is look at themselves
:56:35. > :56:37.and ask whether they should be selling the paper.
:56:38. > :56:40.But some believe stopping the paper being sold is a step too far.
:56:41. > :56:43.I have a great deal of sympathy towards the victims
:56:44. > :56:47.and their families, but it is wider than that I think.
:56:48. > :56:51.Where do you draw the line once you start?
:56:52. > :56:57.How many of the staff are still on the Sun?
:56:58. > :56:59.And I believe in individual has a right to decide
:57:00. > :57:04.The owners of the Sun tell us they hope, in time,
:57:05. > :57:07.their grave error can be forgiven, but also say it is a shame that some
:57:08. > :57:10.people are trying to decide what others can choose
:57:11. > :57:16.And the council's strong stance is an issue which divides opinion.
:57:17. > :57:19.I think the public have spoken - nobody wants the Sun.
:57:20. > :57:22.The treatment that the Sun gave the area at the time of Hillsborough
:57:23. > :57:32.I would make the choice of not having it, but if somebody wants it,
:57:33. > :57:37.Yes, and I think the less state intervention, the better.
:57:38. > :57:39.Campaigners against the Sun say they would like the paper
:57:40. > :57:41.to completely disappear off of the shelves
:57:42. > :57:56.Mat Trewern reporting. Andrew, are the council is going to far? The
:57:57. > :58:00.council is talking about the Sun on sale in Liverpool, one of the most
:58:01. > :58:02.powerful moments when I was in Parliament was the debate on
:58:03. > :58:08.Hillsborough, and I read is the point of order, about Kelvin
:58:09. > :58:12.MacKenzie, whether he can be got back in front of the Select
:58:13. > :58:16.Committee many years later over it. But should council should
:58:17. > :58:20.encourage... To answer that, councils have quite a lot on their
:58:21. > :58:24.plate and quite frankly I am not sure they should be doing this
:58:25. > :58:29.because if the Sun is not selling in Liverpool, give people the choice,
:58:30. > :58:33.if it doesn't sell, it doesn't, and I know it doesn't sell in Liverpool.
:58:34. > :58:38.But also West Lancashire and people are not trying to ban it, just want
:58:39. > :58:44.to encourage newsagents to think about what the Sun did. Absolutely.
:58:45. > :58:48.And if you take the world, the 96 victims of Hillsborough, 12 of them
:58:49. > :58:55.I understand were from the Wirral and Ellesmere Port. People in the
:58:56. > :58:58.middle of that grief, the misery of bereavement, in a terrible incident,
:58:59. > :59:04.a newspaper that published untruths. Now it has admitted! But people
:59:05. > :59:09.don't get over that, it made their grief worse and people still
:59:10. > :59:13.remember it. So I think that is the council rightly showing solidarity
:59:14. > :59:17.with people, families of those victims. I fully understand it and I
:59:18. > :59:20.think they are doing the right thing. OK!
:59:21. > :59:22.What else has been happening this week?
:59:23. > :59:25.Here's Steve Saul to tell us in 60 Seconds.
:59:26. > :59:28.Wigan MP Lisa Nandy led Labour's attack on Theresa May's handling
:59:29. > :59:30.of the child abuse inquiry during the Prime Minister's
:59:31. > :59:42.She set up the enquiry, she appointed the chairperson, she was
:59:43. > :59:43.the Home Secretary in April and was the only person who had the power to
:59:44. > :59:45.act. Oldham was designated
:59:46. > :59:47.an "opportunity area" after the Education Secretary
:59:48. > :59:49.paid a visit to promise But children not paying a visit
:59:50. > :59:53.to school have been racking up Councils in the North West fined
:59:54. > :00:00.parents ?1.3 million Cheshire councillor Matthew Bryan -
:00:01. > :00:05.on the left - went on trial accused of obstructing an officer
:00:06. > :00:08.as police tried to clear He and seven others
:00:09. > :00:11.deny all charges. And the former Lib Dem MP John Leech
:00:12. > :00:19.won praise for his part in a successful campaign to pardon
:00:20. > :00:21.posthumously thousands convicted of homosexuality, among them
:00:22. > :00:29.the codebreaker Alan Turing. John Leech taking
:00:30. > :00:30.the plaudits there. What's your biggest recent
:00:31. > :00:42.achievement? I think I presented 100 petitions on
:00:43. > :00:46.behalf of women born in the 1950s who have not got their state pension
:00:47. > :00:51.when they expected. A lot of them said they were moved in seeing so
:00:52. > :00:57.much support, so that was a good moment last week. I campaign long
:00:58. > :01:01.and hard for a bypass to relieve traffic in Glossop. We had an
:01:02. > :01:05.awareness event last week and it was the first opportunity for people to
:01:06. > :01:09.see the plans to have this delivered in the not too distant future. Good
:01:10. > :01:10.to see many constituents look at the initial drawing. Well done to both
:01:11. > :01:11.of you. Thanks to Barbara Keeley
:01:12. > :01:14.and Andrew Bingham - go ahead with this policy, I know.
:01:15. > :01:26.And now back to Andrew. So, Brexit, airports,
:01:27. > :01:48.Calais and the chances With what Rory Stewart was saying
:01:49. > :01:52.there, it is clear that Islamic State is losing territory in Iraq
:01:53. > :01:59.now, and could come under pressure in Syria as well. It used to control
:02:00. > :02:08.a whole swathe of the coast of Libya, and is now down to a small
:02:09. > :02:10.area of Sirte in Libya. But curiously, it could make them more
:02:11. > :02:15.dangerous here if they are being driven out of the Maghreb and the
:02:16. > :02:20.Levant, they could be more dangerous here. Discuss. That was a very
:02:21. > :02:25.interesting admission from a government minister, of all people,
:02:26. > :02:33.and a well-informed one. Chasing Isis around the Middle East is
:02:34. > :02:36.about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You
:02:37. > :02:45.smash them somewhere, and they pop up somewhere else. He is right to
:02:46. > :02:57.warn that these guys will go somewhere. And it may well be, in
:02:58. > :03:02.Sirte, for example, across the magic oration -- across the Mediterranean
:03:03. > :03:05.into Italy. A lot of the foreign fighters in Mosul have already gone,
:03:06. > :03:14.we heard, which raises the question, to where? I think it is quite right
:03:15. > :03:18.for government ministers to warn that it might have repercussions
:03:19. > :03:23.here. We have been involved in this, with full public consent, as far as
:03:24. > :03:27.we can tell. If it doesn't happen, if there are horrors and outrages
:03:28. > :03:34.here and in the rest of Europe, that's fine. If it does happen, at
:03:35. > :03:42.least the government is prepared. We knew surprised about how categorical
:03:43. > :03:48.Nia Griffith was? She was categorical about support for the
:03:49. > :03:55.Allied action in Iraq, and categorical about Russia. So much so
:03:56. > :04:00.that perhaps written should take tougher sanctions on its own, even
:04:01. > :04:05.if it can't get the Europeans to fall in line. I found that
:04:06. > :04:10.interesting. I was surprised by that. Tom may be right that Rory
:04:11. > :04:15.said more than perhaps he was intending, but I thought that some
:04:16. > :04:19.of what she said sounded politically imprudent in the current context of
:04:20. > :04:24.the Labour Party. I'm not sure she cleared those lines with the Labour
:04:25. > :04:29.office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy are in the same place about it. I'm
:04:30. > :04:32.not sure there is that much leadership. People at the moment get
:04:33. > :04:37.out there and say what they think it's right for the party. She
:04:38. > :04:43.sounded dead right to me. Whether it is ill-advised or not, people should
:04:44. > :04:49.answer... I want to move on, because Brexit never goes away. This week we
:04:50. > :04:53.saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow Foreign Secretary. He is going to be
:04:54. > :04:57.the chair of the select committee in the Commons which will monitor the
:04:58. > :05:01.Department for Brexit. All sorts of people will be coming to give
:05:02. > :05:04.testimony and so one. Let's hear what he told Andrew Marr.
:05:05. > :05:07.I think it will be very important for the government to indicate that
:05:08. > :05:10.if it is not possible within the two years provided for by Article 50
:05:11. > :05:13.to negotiate both our withdrawal agreement and a new trading
:05:14. > :05:14.relationship, market access, including for services,
:05:15. > :05:16.80% of our economy, million jobs, in financial services,
:05:17. > :05:19.that it should tell the House of Commons that it will seek
:05:20. > :05:25.a transitional arrangement with the European Union.
:05:26. > :05:34.If the deal is not done at the end of the two-year Article 50 process,
:05:35. > :05:40.would the government go for an interim agreement, or would it fall
:05:41. > :05:44.back on WTO, World Trade Organisation, Rawls? My
:05:45. > :05:47.understanding is the article 15 negotiation doesn't specifically
:05:48. > :05:52.include what Britain's future trading relationship with the EU
:05:53. > :05:57.would be. It is perfectly possible that Article 50 could be triggered,
:05:58. > :06:02.and after two years we don't have a trade deal, but the trade deal
:06:03. > :06:13.negotiations are ongoing when we are outside the EU. But the trade deal
:06:14. > :06:16.negotiations are the most important thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover
:06:17. > :06:18.it, what is it about? Absolutely essential. The trade deal with
:06:19. > :06:26.Canada has taken nine years, and now it looks like it is fading, because
:06:27. > :06:35.of the Walloons. Just one small part of the country. If you cannot do a
:06:36. > :06:38.free-trade deal with Canada, a progressive, social Democratic
:06:39. > :06:43.Canada, who can the EU do a trade deal with? You would think it would
:06:44. > :06:47.be easy with us, because we have all of the level playing field
:06:48. > :06:52.agreements in place. You would hope it would be easier, but it may not
:06:53. > :06:57.be, because in the end, it will hinge on the single market and if we
:06:58. > :07:06.are in or out. If we are in, can we have a small break on immigration?
:07:07. > :07:08.It looks like not. What is interesting about the opinion polls
:07:09. > :07:13.is, in the last two opinion polls there was a significant change in
:07:14. > :07:17.public opinion, where people are now saying they think that actually
:07:18. > :07:22.trade, the economy, the single market is more important than
:07:23. > :07:27.immigration. If it is really true, as the observer is reporting today,
:07:28. > :07:31.that banks are on the move, and in a year's time there could be a
:07:32. > :07:35.significant collapse in the income we get from finance, the income that
:07:36. > :07:46.the Treasury gets, then public opinion might change. They may say,
:07:47. > :07:49.we don't want more immigration, but this isn't a price worth paying.
:07:50. > :07:57.Everything tends to be seen through the Brexit lens at the moment.
:07:58. > :08:00.Things are not always as they seem. The Canadian- EU free trade
:08:01. > :08:05.agreement was about increasing free trade between the EU and Canada, and
:08:06. > :08:09.therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any
:08:10. > :08:15.deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The
:08:16. > :08:21.question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to
:08:22. > :08:24.the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another
:08:25. > :08:30.unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get
:08:31. > :08:35.this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks
:08:36. > :08:43.and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one
:08:44. > :08:52.gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27,
:08:53. > :08:58.including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority
:08:59. > :09:02.of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the
:09:03. > :09:06.transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear
:09:07. > :09:11.Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all
:09:12. > :09:15.over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered
:09:16. > :09:24.about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are
:09:25. > :09:28.talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a
:09:29. > :09:32.trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they
:09:33. > :09:38.are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and
:09:39. > :09:43.stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't
:09:44. > :09:47.always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in
:09:48. > :09:52.tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will
:09:53. > :09:56.see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very
:09:57. > :10:02.badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something
:10:03. > :10:05.like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the
:10:06. > :10:09.Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people
:10:10. > :10:17.traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have
:10:18. > :10:22.vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have
:10:23. > :10:28.been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know
:10:29. > :10:32.how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over
:10:33. > :10:39.what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem
:10:40. > :10:44.for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to
:10:45. > :10:49.survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three
:10:50. > :10:52.months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They
:10:53. > :11:00.didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go. It
:11:01. > :11:06.needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because
:11:07. > :11:10.the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but
:11:11. > :11:16.I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until
:11:17. > :11:20.the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When
:11:21. > :11:24.you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion
:11:25. > :11:28.being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early
:11:29. > :11:33.election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she
:11:34. > :11:41.can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to
:11:42. > :11:44.be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just
:11:45. > :11:48.a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough
:11:49. > :11:53.time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the
:11:54. > :11:59.single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a
:12:00. > :12:04.general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the
:12:05. > :12:13.same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate
:12:14. > :12:16.that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will
:12:17. > :12:20.split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get
:12:21. > :12:24.Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a
:12:25. > :12:29.good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow
:12:30. > :12:33.Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this.
:12:34. > :12:45.There he is. Where is the hand? That is the
:12:46. > :12:53.worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair
:12:54. > :12:58.of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man
:12:59. > :13:06.most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular
:13:07. > :13:12.culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto,
:13:13. > :13:19.bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you
:13:20. > :13:21.don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get
:13:22. > :13:24.it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back
:13:25. > :13:26.with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next
:13:27. > :13:30.Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday,
:13:31. > :14:04.it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these
:14:05. > :14:06.amazing lives, You're like a...
:14:07. > :14:17.Different person? Delve deeper.
:14:18. > :14:26.Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me
:14:27. > :14:27.that I can actually remember. They have something on me
:14:28. > :14:32.that I can actually remember. The final chapter between
:14:33. > :14:36.Gibson and Spector.