30/10/2016

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:00:36. > :00:39.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

:00:40. > :00:41.Theresa May says she wants to help people who are

:00:42. > :00:44."just about managing" - so should she reverse

:00:45. > :00:46.George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people

:00:47. > :00:53.Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker,

:00:54. > :00:56.says the High Court, after claims made on this programme.

:00:57. > :01:01.So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police?

:01:02. > :01:07.Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation

:01:08. > :01:09.into her use of a private email server - is this the boost

:01:10. > :01:13.Donald Trump needed to reignite his chances of winning the White House?

:01:14. > :01:16.Building on the green belt, plus:

:01:17. > :01:19.A game of two halves - City's future looks bright,

:01:20. > :01:22.but are United in the dark `ges on women's football?

:01:23. > :01:24.Now it is just a question of building that runway with the

:01:25. > :01:31.political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio

:01:32. > :01:33.on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political

:01:34. > :01:36.panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman,

:01:37. > :01:39.'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two

:01:40. > :01:47.new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant

:01:48. > :01:50.in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday

:01:51. > :01:57.was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British

:01:58. > :02:00.economy is in rude health This morning, the Business

:02:01. > :02:03.Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given

:02:04. > :02:07.to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest

:02:08. > :02:13.for there to be tariff barriers to the continent

:02:14. > :02:18.and vice versa. So, what I said is that our

:02:19. > :02:22.objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets

:02:23. > :02:27.in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without

:02:28. > :02:31.bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach

:02:32. > :02:35.those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle

:02:36. > :02:48.by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has

:02:49. > :02:53.been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by

:02:54. > :02:57.making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for

:02:58. > :03:02.the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in

:03:03. > :03:07.the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of

:03:08. > :03:13.incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are

:03:14. > :03:15.absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most

:03:16. > :03:21.productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most

:03:22. > :03:27.productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade

:03:28. > :03:29.unions and the business organisations, and everybody who

:03:30. > :03:36.campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their

:03:37. > :03:40.future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge

:03:41. > :03:44.difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make

:03:45. > :03:49.things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing

:03:50. > :03:55.sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security.

:03:56. > :04:00.I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow

:04:01. > :04:03.business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims

:04:04. > :04:08.the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a

:04:09. > :04:11.small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs

:04:12. > :04:16.in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're

:04:17. > :04:20.really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce,

:04:21. > :04:24.and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t

:04:25. > :04:29.ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job

:04:30. > :04:33.security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors

:04:34. > :04:39.as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important

:04:40. > :04:43.they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you

:04:44. > :04:49.say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that

:04:50. > :04:53.what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole

:04:54. > :04:59.industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he

:05:00. > :05:04.had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our

:05:05. > :05:07.industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered

:05:08. > :05:12.piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan,

:05:13. > :05:16.actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what

:05:17. > :05:20.is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on

:05:21. > :05:26.science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You

:05:27. > :05:30.must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an

:05:31. > :05:39.industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say

:05:40. > :05:45.industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you

:05:46. > :05:49.disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he

:05:50. > :05:54.has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in

:05:55. > :05:59.general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with

:06:00. > :06:03.that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let

:06:04. > :06:09.him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we

:06:10. > :06:17.need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and

:06:18. > :06:23.joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That

:06:24. > :06:27.was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed

:06:28. > :06:31.support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is

:06:32. > :06:37.not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there

:06:38. > :06:41.was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to

:06:42. > :06:47.be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you

:06:48. > :06:51.claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to

:06:52. > :06:58.be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I

:06:59. > :07:04.would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances

:07:05. > :07:09.that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of

:07:10. > :07:12.what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the

:07:13. > :07:18.single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs

:07:19. > :07:22.Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very

:07:23. > :07:24.good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant

:07:25. > :07:30.investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is

:07:31. > :07:36.some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would

:07:37. > :07:41.like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what

:07:42. > :07:46.would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with

:07:47. > :07:50.the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain

:07:51. > :07:55.competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg

:07:56. > :08:00.Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we

:08:01. > :08:08.do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about

:08:09. > :08:12.reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're

:08:13. > :08:16.going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only

:08:17. > :08:23.those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention

:08:24. > :08:26.of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a

:08:27. > :08:30.competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave

:08:31. > :08:35.them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest

:08:36. > :08:39.Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made

:08:40. > :08:42.strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise

:08:43. > :08:47.corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could

:08:48. > :08:52.you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our

:08:53. > :08:56.vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong

:08:57. > :09:07.manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at

:09:08. > :09:15.Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained,

:09:16. > :09:19.well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't

:09:20. > :09:24.have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union

:09:25. > :09:28.laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing

:09:29. > :09:30.investment. Remember, the last government took away the

:09:31. > :09:36.Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed

:09:37. > :09:39.corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill

:09:40. > :09:44.economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you.

:09:45. > :09:54.I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is

:09:55. > :09:59.left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid

:10:00. > :10:02.point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could

:10:03. > :10:09.say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he

:10:10. > :10:13.could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was

:10:14. > :10:20.enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving

:10:21. > :10:23.training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not

:10:24. > :10:27.know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is

:10:28. > :10:30.if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government

:10:31. > :10:35.says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an

:10:36. > :10:39.industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't

:10:40. > :10:42.made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an

:10:43. > :10:49.impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure

:10:50. > :10:53.this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of

:10:54. > :10:57.millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I

:10:58. > :11:02.spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to

:11:03. > :11:05.Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that

:11:06. > :11:09.Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record,

:11:10. > :11:15.its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some

:11:16. > :11:19.bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk

:11:20. > :11:23.away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced -

:11:24. > :11:28.based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position

:11:29. > :11:31.because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want

:11:32. > :11:38.to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a

:11:39. > :11:40.smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to

:11:41. > :11:43.articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think

:11:44. > :11:49.the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were

:11:50. > :11:51.anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an

:11:52. > :11:56.objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its

:11:57. > :12:02.right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one

:12:03. > :12:05.thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this

:12:06. > :12:08.morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of

:12:09. > :12:13.financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for

:12:14. > :12:18.skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial

:12:19. > :12:21.investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal

:12:22. > :12:26.under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a

:12:27. > :12:30.financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would

:12:31. > :12:34.be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just

:12:35. > :12:38.released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there.

:12:39. > :12:43.The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited

:12:44. > :12:47.about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would

:12:48. > :12:50.be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded

:12:51. > :12:53.as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal

:12:54. > :12:59.about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about

:13:00. > :13:03.what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff

:13:04. > :13:10.free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is

:13:11. > :13:14.where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how

:13:15. > :13:20.the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's

:13:21. > :13:25.negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please.

:13:26. > :13:30.It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We

:13:31. > :13:32.are getting wider than that. We have will have to see.

:13:33. > :13:35.Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare

:13:36. > :13:37.claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst

:13:38. > :13:39.encouraging people into work by making work pay.

:13:40. > :13:42.But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work

:13:43. > :13:47.incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off?

:13:48. > :13:50.Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and,

:13:51. > :13:56.as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed.

:13:57. > :13:59.Theresa May says she wants a country that works

:14:00. > :14:03.for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people.

:14:04. > :14:06.It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them

:14:07. > :14:09.to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out

:14:10. > :14:12.and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes

:14:13. > :14:19.But now some in her party are worried that the low earners

:14:20. > :14:23.will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system

:14:24. > :14:25.originally set up to encourage more people into work.

:14:26. > :14:28.We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit

:14:29. > :14:35.Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget

:14:36. > :14:44.to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill.

:14:45. > :14:47.Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs

:14:48. > :14:55.in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again.

:14:56. > :14:57.I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might

:14:58. > :14:59.be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit,

:15:00. > :15:03.Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand

:15:04. > :15:06.To be fair, unless you really get into the detail,

:15:07. > :15:09.and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions

:15:10. > :15:11.Select Committee, I don't think anybody does.

:15:12. > :15:17.Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan

:15:18. > :15:21.that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work.

:15:22. > :15:23.One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system

:15:24. > :15:27.That is how much you can earn before your credit

:15:28. > :15:30.As the Government has sought to save money,

:15:31. > :15:32.both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government,

:15:33. > :15:34.both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government,

:15:35. > :15:37.that work allowance has been cut, time and time again.

:15:38. > :15:39.The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015.

:15:40. > :15:42.That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep

:15:43. > :15:45.It weakens the incentive people have to move into work.

:15:46. > :15:48.What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean?

:15:49. > :15:51.The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers.

:15:52. > :15:54.If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer

:15:55. > :15:58.budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains

:15:59. > :16:00.in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts,

:16:01. > :16:05.recipients will be hit by annual deductions.

:16:06. > :16:09.Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less.

:16:10. > :16:10.A dual-earning couple with two children under four,

:16:11. > :16:13.with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other

:16:14. > :16:16.working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20

:16:17. > :16:24.hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less.

:16:25. > :16:26.Hit most by the changes would be a single parent

:16:27. > :16:27.with a child under four, working full-time

:16:28. > :16:41.I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given

:16:42. > :16:44.the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed.

:16:45. > :16:50.What I would like to see is an increase in the work

:16:51. > :16:53.allowances to those people who will be hardest hit.

:16:54. > :16:56.That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work,

:16:57. > :16:58.because they are the people we need to absolutely make

:16:59. > :17:03.The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs

:17:04. > :17:07.are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement.

:17:08. > :17:10.A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact

:17:11. > :17:13.analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures

:17:14. > :17:19.Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect

:17:20. > :17:24.of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed.

:17:25. > :17:28.But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit

:17:29. > :17:33.the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year.

:17:34. > :17:37.What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first

:17:38. > :17:40.time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year

:17:41. > :17:41.because these reforms actually do make sense.

:17:42. > :17:44.What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people

:17:45. > :17:47.off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people

:17:48. > :17:49.earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this

:17:50. > :17:53.People are coming off welfare and into work.

:17:54. > :17:56.Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve

:17:57. > :18:01.The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple

:18:02. > :18:05.Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right

:18:06. > :18:07.that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind,

:18:08. > :18:10.for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have

:18:11. > :18:15.I think it is time for us to look at that policy again,

:18:16. > :18:17.because is costing us an awful lot of money.

:18:18. > :18:20.With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's

:18:21. > :18:23.new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement,

:18:24. > :18:27.its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it

:18:28. > :18:36.And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary,

:18:37. > :18:44.Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side

:18:45. > :18:50.of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit

:18:51. > :18:53.from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed

:18:54. > :18:58.as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed

:18:59. > :19:00.because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going

:19:01. > :19:05.to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for

:19:06. > :19:10.being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus

:19:11. > :19:17.on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic

:19:18. > :19:21.terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is

:19:22. > :19:25.the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this

:19:26. > :19:28.right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the

:19:29. > :19:31.direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too

:19:32. > :19:35.much money out of that group of people when there are other areas

:19:36. > :19:39.which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit

:19:40. > :19:42.is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to

:19:43. > :19:46.stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were

:19:47. > :19:53.there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it

:19:54. > :19:56.should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to

:19:57. > :20:00.stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but

:20:01. > :20:05.that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but

:20:06. > :20:08.first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis

:20:09. > :20:15.of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant

:20:16. > :20:20.and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I

:20:21. > :20:29.do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised

:20:30. > :20:32.that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that

:20:33. > :20:36.pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing

:20:37. > :20:41.the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost

:20:42. > :20:50.us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another

:20:51. > :20:55.5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind

:20:56. > :21:01.you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in

:21:02. > :21:07.2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a

:21:08. > :21:10.week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes

:21:11. > :21:18.that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p.

:21:19. > :21:24.What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and

:21:25. > :21:33.election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us

:21:34. > :21:38.today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest

:21:39. > :21:44.in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%.

:21:45. > :21:48.Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose

:21:49. > :21:53.benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too

:21:54. > :21:58.high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the

:21:59. > :22:02.moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at

:22:03. > :22:09.65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will

:22:10. > :22:12.face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important.

:22:13. > :22:16.The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand

:22:17. > :22:19.is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to

:22:20. > :22:23.get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into

:22:24. > :22:30.work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in

:22:31. > :22:33.hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have

:22:34. > :22:37.a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same

:22:38. > :22:41.commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty

:22:42. > :22:44.going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What

:22:45. > :22:48.happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax

:22:49. > :22:51.credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe

:22:52. > :22:57.given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point

:22:58. > :23:00.where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken,

:23:01. > :23:05.it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the

:23:06. > :23:09.summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise

:23:10. > :23:12.the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being

:23:13. > :23:18.higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the

:23:19. > :23:20.consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take

:23:21. > :23:24.collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go,

:23:25. > :23:27.but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument.

:23:28. > :23:31.There was another attempt before the spending review last year to

:23:32. > :23:36.increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed

:23:37. > :23:40.to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last

:23:41. > :23:45.year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of

:23:46. > :23:49.that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if

:23:50. > :23:53.we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is

:23:54. > :23:56.singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the

:23:57. > :24:01.paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of

:24:02. > :24:08.the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a

:24:09. > :24:13.diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate

:24:14. > :24:18.will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I

:24:19. > :24:22.will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you

:24:23. > :24:25.put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed

:24:26. > :24:30.it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed

:24:31. > :24:33.circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne

:24:34. > :24:39.introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe

:24:40. > :24:42.so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I

:24:43. > :24:46.don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax

:24:47. > :24:54.threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is

:24:55. > :24:59.in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto,

:25:00. > :25:05.and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to

:25:06. > :25:09.improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green

:25:10. > :25:12.paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes

:25:13. > :25:16.necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be

:25:17. > :25:20.done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work

:25:21. > :25:23.and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort

:25:24. > :25:29.our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make

:25:30. > :25:32.sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what

:25:33. > :25:36.you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would

:25:37. > :25:43.that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on

:25:44. > :25:49.in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would

:25:50. > :25:52.it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is

:25:53. > :25:58.first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where

:25:59. > :26:01.they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the

:26:02. > :26:06.re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the

:26:07. > :26:11.IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying,

:26:12. > :26:14.and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group,

:26:15. > :26:19.because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less

:26:20. > :26:24.incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We

:26:25. > :26:29.don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I

:26:30. > :26:38.would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,.

:26:39. > :26:40.-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would

:26:41. > :26:48.prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold

:26:49. > :26:54.razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%,

:26:55. > :26:56.getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal

:26:57. > :27:00.Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written

:27:01. > :27:04.by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic

:27:05. > :27:08.and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that

:27:09. > :27:15.people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take

:27:16. > :27:21.on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %?

:27:22. > :27:26.This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that

:27:27. > :27:31.enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five

:27:32. > :27:33.deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to

:27:34. > :27:40.Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing,

:27:41. > :27:43.genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to

:27:44. > :27:47.make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think

:27:48. > :27:53.she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have

:27:54. > :27:56.a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto

:27:57. > :28:02.commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the

:28:03. > :28:04.personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to

:28:05. > :28:10.an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock

:28:11. > :28:16.that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor?

:28:17. > :28:20.What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now

:28:21. > :28:23.the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations

:28:24. > :28:27.Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as

:28:28. > :28:34.a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings.

:28:35. > :28:39.It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about

:28:40. > :28:43.ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but

:28:44. > :28:46.after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and

:28:47. > :28:51.allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the

:28:52. > :28:55.triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under

:28:56. > :28:59.pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money

:29:00. > :29:03.out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on

:29:04. > :29:07.the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are

:29:08. > :29:11.up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by

:29:12. > :29:15.Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay

:29:16. > :29:26.for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock

:29:27. > :29:31.and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about?

:29:32. > :29:33.As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the

:29:34. > :29:36.intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us.

:29:37. > :29:38.Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg -

:29:39. > :29:41.who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist.

:29:42. > :29:44.That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took

:29:45. > :29:47.against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist

:29:48. > :29:51.Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November

:29:52. > :29:54.2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council

:29:55. > :29:56.of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British

:29:57. > :30:02.In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker

:30:03. > :30:05.who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds.

:30:06. > :30:09.From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been

:30:10. > :30:12.involved in a number of community organisations, including

:30:13. > :30:15.the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham,

:30:16. > :30:20.Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education

:30:21. > :30:23.and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital.

:30:24. > :30:28.But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called

:30:29. > :30:31.Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local

:30:32. > :30:34.community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences

:30:35. > :30:39.he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism.

:30:40. > :30:42.The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally

:30:43. > :30:45.outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses

:30:46. > :30:48.terrorists - as particularly sinister.

:30:49. > :30:51.The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise

:30:52. > :30:57.Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that

:30:58. > :31:01.Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated.

:31:02. > :31:05.We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer

:31:06. > :31:06.on their Religious Education Committee.

:31:07. > :31:08.The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that

:31:09. > :31:13.Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group

:31:14. > :31:23.in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group.

:31:24. > :31:27.I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam

:31:28. > :31:34.Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a

:31:35. > :31:40.statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject

:31:41. > :31:42.the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and

:31:43. > :31:49.unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam

:31:50. > :31:53.What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At

:31:54. > :31:57.the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he

:31:58. > :32:03.belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque

:32:04. > :32:07.would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be

:32:08. > :32:11.saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and

:32:12. > :32:16.extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very

:32:17. > :32:23.important decision and a very important judgment by the judge

:32:24. > :32:28.First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer

:32:29. > :32:32.of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of

:32:33. > :32:36.things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand

:32:37. > :32:43.by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody

:32:44. > :32:47.who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential

:32:48. > :32:52.libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and

:32:53. > :32:58.people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's

:32:59. > :33:01.some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who

:33:02. > :33:05.promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a

:33:06. > :33:09.step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing

:33:10. > :33:18.within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really

:33:19. > :33:23.concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were

:33:24. > :33:30.consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What

:33:31. > :33:40.is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It

:33:41. > :33:43.comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for

:33:44. > :33:52.them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist

:33:53. > :33:54.to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a

:33:55. > :33:58.revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And

:33:59. > :34:06.then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc.

:34:07. > :34:09.We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has,

:34:10. > :34:14.growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political

:34:15. > :34:18.ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular

:34:19. > :34:24.problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the

:34:25. > :34:27.theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that

:34:28. > :34:32.excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good

:34:33. > :34:36.to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi

:34:37. > :34:44.problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of

:34:45. > :34:49.mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on

:34:50. > :34:54.the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll

:34:55. > :35:00.and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are

:35:01. > :35:04.speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we

:35:05. > :35:09.have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in

:35:10. > :35:12.prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But

:35:13. > :35:16.there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will

:35:17. > :35:21.show one face to the community because they actually need that for

:35:22. > :35:25.a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to

:35:26. > :35:29.operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their

:35:30. > :35:34.constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these

:35:35. > :35:38.people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more.

:35:39. > :35:46.And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque

:35:47. > :35:50.stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you

:35:51. > :35:54.surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with

:35:55. > :35:57.Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that

:35:58. > :36:03.decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with

:36:04. > :36:06.extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I

:36:07. > :36:12.don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge

:36:13. > :36:14.that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an

:36:15. > :36:19.extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have

:36:20. > :36:25.a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a

:36:26. > :36:27.law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated

:36:28. > :36:33.violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there

:36:34. > :36:37.is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into

:36:38. > :36:40.question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other

:36:41. > :36:47.Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to

:36:48. > :36:56.say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties

:36:57. > :37:00.from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure

:37:01. > :37:06.could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make

:37:07. > :37:12.it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg

:37:13. > :37:16.has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have

:37:17. > :37:23.to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they

:37:24. > :37:27.say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem.

:37:28. > :37:32.But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner

:37:33. > :37:36.and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose

:37:37. > :37:38.them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us.

:37:39. > :37:40.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:41. > :37:43.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:37:44. > :37:53.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

:37:54. > :38:04.do women still have more hurdles to clear in sport?

:38:05. > :38:05.We have the highest female participation

:38:06. > :38:09.So, the more funding out there the better,

:38:10. > :38:19.And on the political playing field with me are Louise Bours, Ukip Euro

:38:20. > :38:21.MEP for North West England, and Mark Menzies,

:38:22. > :38:35.We have to start with Ukip, don t we? According to the party, Steven

:38:36. > :38:39.Woolfe, your fellow MEP, until recently one of your Ukip

:38:40. > :38:44.colleagues, was to blame for starting the scuffle which left him

:38:45. > :38:47.in hospital. But the presiddnt of the European Parliament has said

:38:48. > :38:48.that this now needs to be investigated further. Let's see what

:38:49. > :38:50.he had to say. TRANSLATION: There is a cle`r

:38:51. > :38:52.suspicion that Mr Woolfe was subjected to an act of violence,

:38:53. > :38:55.which is why we referred This is completely political

:38:56. > :38:58.on behalf of the European Union trying to cause maximum

:38:59. > :39:00.embarrassment for Ukip, as if there wasn't

:39:01. > :39:11.enough there already. Even Nigel Farage says all this is a

:39:12. > :39:15.bit embarrassing, hard to argue with him, isn't it?

:39:16. > :39:20.Absolutely, people shouldn't be behaving in that fashion. Stephen

:39:21. > :39:26.has now led, I do hope sincdrely he can get his life back contr`ct. I

:39:27. > :39:31.really do hope that sincerely. It is embarrassing, it isn't how we should

:39:32. > :39:35.behave. But it isn't indicative of the whole party. I think th`t's

:39:36. > :39:40.important to note. I think this is something we can now move on from.

:39:41. > :39:45.We've got a very exciting ldadership election coming up, hopefully we can

:39:46. > :39:47.put this sorry mess behind ts and lesson from it, leave it in the

:39:48. > :39:49.past. Let's have a look at

:39:50. > :39:51.the runners and riders to hdlp the UK Independence Party

:39:52. > :39:53.through its recent turmoil. The bookmakers now have another

:39:54. > :39:56.North West MEP, Paul Nuttall, as odds-on to take over -

:39:57. > :39:58.followed by Raheem Kassam, Suzanne Evans and Peter Whittle -

:39:59. > :40:02.though they still rate Nigel Farage as a better prospect than hhm,

:40:03. > :40:16.despite Mr Farage Louise Bours, I'm guessing that

:40:17. > :40:22.you're backing Paul Nuttall, because you two are together?

:40:23. > :40:27.Absolutely, I am backing Patl, he is a cable, confident, experienced

:40:28. > :40:32.politician, and Ukip member. The members of Ukip trust Paul, I think,

:40:33. > :40:36.definitely, at this time we need that, we need experience, someone

:40:37. > :40:42.who is going to unify the p`rty I think Paul is the person to do that.

:40:43. > :40:47.great as that to the party, but I great as that to the party, but I

:40:48. > :40:50.think in this instance Paul will be the president to bring us together

:40:51. > :40:53.and awards were we need to take the party.

:40:54. > :40:57.But didn't stand last time, and that wasn't that long ago, does he really

:40:58. > :41:01.want it? And think he feels it's his duty,

:41:02. > :41:06.after seeing what happened last time. He's committed many ydars of

:41:07. > :41:10.his life to Ukip and to the members and to the north West, and he feels

:41:11. > :41:14.bound to take this on. He fdels he bound to take this on. He fdels he

:41:15. > :41:18.is the man to take this fight to labour in the north.

:41:19. > :41:25.What about in a place like Tunbridge Wells, what they like and there

:41:26. > :41:29.Paul has support from all across membership, north, south, e`st and

:41:30. > :41:34.west. Paul is the most experienced candidates, he was our chairman for

:41:35. > :41:38.many years before becoming `n MEP and deputy leader. I think that will

:41:39. > :41:41.resonate with the members and they will know that in Paul they will

:41:42. > :41:44.have a leader they can belidve in and trust.

:41:45. > :41:49.A vital confidence from you there. Mark Menzies, I want to talk to you

:41:50. > :41:51.about Vauxhall, because concern there for workers at Ellesmdre Port

:41:52. > :41:54.this week. after taking a $400

:41:55. > :41:56.million hit from Brexit. The company said it would do

:41:57. > :41:59."whatever was necessary" after taking a $400

:42:00. > :42:00.million hit from Brexit. The Prime Minister went to the plant

:42:01. > :42:03.during the referendum campahgn. The company employs 1700 people

:42:04. > :42:06.making the Astra at the sitd. Should those workers be worried now,

:42:07. > :42:16.given the news from Nissan over I hope the workers haven't got calls

:42:17. > :42:21.to be worried. Your pico sedking to someone who is a box Astra driver, I

:42:22. > :42:25.don't just talk about the product, I believe in it. This is coming on the

:42:26. > :42:31.back of some of the Brexit fears were heard about Nissan and Toyota,

:42:32. > :42:36.and just this week, we've h`d the confirmation that Nissan is building

:42:37. > :42:41.two new models here in the TK. We're seeing the same confirmation from

:42:42. > :42:46.Toyota and JCB. What we havd to do is understand what the concdrns of

:42:47. > :42:50.the Vauxhall workers are. From a Government level, work everx bit as

:42:51. > :42:54.hard as we did with Nissan to allay those fears and make sure those jobs

:42:55. > :42:59.in the North West are securd. I think, it's fair to say, xou are a

:43:00. > :43:04.reluctant Remainer. No people voted, we come out and say, I was `

:43:05. > :43:08.Brexiteer? I have BAE Systems building

:43:09. > :43:13.Eurofighter in my constituency, to making sure the economic case for

:43:14. > :43:19.Brexit had to be right. People voted, the decision is clear, UK has

:43:20. > :43:23.voted to leave the European Union. The Prime Minister from the top of

:43:24. > :43:26.the Government down, has made it clear, Brexit is something that is

:43:27. > :43:31.going to happen, we have to make sure it doesn't happen in a way that

:43:32. > :43:33.damages any dogs in the UK. And Brexit is Brexit, whatever that

:43:34. > :43:35.may mean. Thank you. Council leaders across

:43:36. > :43:38.Greater Manchester have signed off plans for almost a quarter

:43:39. > :43:41.of a million new homes But some local MPs and residents

:43:42. > :43:47.are angry because chunks of the green belt will go,

:43:48. > :43:49.as Kevin Fitzpatrick reports. We're just entering off Platt Lane,

:43:50. > :43:52.Westhoughton. In the Westhoughton area in Bolton,

:43:53. > :43:55.residents have spent years All the trees you can see there

:43:56. > :43:59.they're all the houses They're already busy

:44:00. > :44:06.opposing housing plans, but their battle just got tougher,

:44:07. > :44:08.with the launch of Greater We breathe from these

:44:09. > :44:16.lands and trees. We do need more houses,

:44:17. > :44:19.but don't take the greenfields. The councils say 225,000 new houses

:44:20. > :44:29.need to be built to cope with the expected population growth

:44:30. > :44:34.of 300,000 in the next decade. So they've had to outline

:44:35. > :44:37.where those homes could go. By doing this collectively

:44:38. > :44:39.with our colleagues across `ll ten local authorities in

:44:40. > :44:42.Greater Manchester, we're able to say that you get

:44:43. > :44:44.sustainable development that contributes to jobs,

:44:45. > :44:47.growth, contributes to making sure we have homes

:44:48. > :44:49.people want to live in. And I think there's

:44:50. > :44:51.a desire for that. These are the current

:44:52. > :44:53.green belt areas. If plans are approved, it would mean

:44:54. > :44:57.some of those sites would bdcome This area of green belt land in high

:44:58. > :45:04.Lane in Stockport is on the list Currently, you can only

:45:05. > :45:08.build on green belt But some MPs are concerned that

:45:09. > :45:14.in future, just being listed on this spatial framework will be considered

:45:15. > :45:18.exceptional and enough Stockport could lose

:45:19. > :45:24.9% of its green belt, and one of the town's MPs

:45:25. > :45:27.says that's unacceptable. It means that, around here,

:45:28. > :45:30.we could be facing upwards of 4 00 homes in the area just

:45:31. > :45:33.immediately behind me. My plan is to lobby the Govdrnment

:45:34. > :45:37.to make sure we have a policy, nationally, whereby brownfidld

:45:38. > :45:40.development is preferable The councils incest brown bdlt sites

:45:41. > :45:46.will be prioritised, but due to the scale

:45:47. > :45:50.of the anticipated allotments, building in currently protected

:45:51. > :45:53.areas is thought to be inevhtable. We don't believe we can contain

:45:54. > :45:56.all that growth, housing and employment growth,

:45:57. > :45:59.within the existing urban area. Therefore, we have to look `t how

:46:00. > :46:02.we might sensibly and sensitively develop outside the urban area

:46:03. > :46:06.inside the green belt. An eight-week consultation hs now

:46:07. > :46:10.underway before another draft plan Any builder will still have to go

:46:11. > :46:15.through the full planning process, but it appears that land th`t has

:46:16. > :46:31.always been considered out of bounds Mark Menzies, how would you feel

:46:32. > :46:34.about green belt land in yotr constituency making way for new

:46:35. > :46:38.homes? It's something - and I have 650

:46:39. > :46:43.houses that already have pl`nning position in my constituency, many of

:46:44. > :46:47.those insensitive sites on the edge of villages - it's don't thhnk they

:46:48. > :46:52.need to build new houses with making sure they are built on the right

:46:53. > :46:56.currently on have made it vdry clear currently on have made it vdry clear

:46:57. > :47:01.that we want to prioritise that honour Brownfield sites. We also

:47:02. > :47:07.want to make sure that if you get planning permission on rank your

:47:08. > :47:11.sites, don't land bank it, get on and build the houses people need. At

:47:12. > :47:18.the moment there is an imbalance, too much power to developments, not

:47:19. > :47:21.enough to communities. But green belt development hn your

:47:22. > :47:28.constituency, what do you oppose it? Some of the planning permission we

:47:29. > :47:35.have challenged, we have just heard from a standing, young local MP he

:47:36. > :47:38.is striking that balance between protecting green belt and providing

:47:39. > :47:44.affordable homes for young, local people. It is a difficult b`lance,

:47:45. > :47:49.but one he is getting right in Stockport.

:47:50. > :47:52.Louise Bours, UK policy on housing - local homes for local peopld - what

:47:53. > :47:57.does that mean? If you read the manifesto wd issued

:47:58. > :48:01.last year for the general election, it's all about privatising people

:48:02. > :48:04.who come from that area when it comes to local housing. There are

:48:05. > :48:07.people who should be at the top but those less when it comes to social

:48:08. > :48:11.housing that come from that area. That is hard to disagree with, that

:48:12. > :48:18.is how we have families and family networks. Also, veterans, for

:48:19. > :48:22.example, they struggle to gdt on housing ladder. They should have

:48:23. > :48:26.priority as well. We want to see local people, veterans, and also, if

:48:27. > :48:33.I could just quickly say, wd have such a huge private market, also

:48:34. > :48:36.trying to make private landlords extend rental contracts to get

:48:37. > :48:40.people in bit more security in terms of how long they can stay in an

:48:41. > :48:44.area. Social housing, you would btild more

:48:45. > :48:48.council houses? Absolutely, we have to build a

:48:49. > :48:53.council houses, at the moment, developers are doing the job.

:48:54. > :48:57.They're not providing us with affordable homes. Planning policy,

:48:58. > :49:01.they have to issue a us there is going to be a percentage of

:49:02. > :49:05.affordable housing. But what they think of as affordable and what is

:49:06. > :49:07.and should the reality for lany men and women and families is the

:49:08. > :49:13.opposite. You're making noises of agrdement

:49:14. > :49:18.there, under Thatcher and C`meron it was all about owning your own home?

:49:19. > :49:22.Owning your own home is a priority for this Government, we havd seen

:49:23. > :49:26.ownership of all over the l`st decade. But it's about making sure

:49:27. > :49:30.you have affordable homes. Some people, renting may be the right

:49:31. > :49:34.thing for them, but affordable homes for people to get onto the property

:49:35. > :49:36.market, at the mammoth, simhle people are being priced out.

:49:37. > :49:41.What about mate council houses? What about mate council houses?

:49:42. > :49:46.It's not just about budding council houses. This business that ht had to

:49:47. > :49:52.be a council before, or owner-occupier. There are so many

:49:53. > :49:57.more models available to provide housing solutions. I'll givd you an

:49:58. > :50:04.example, Adam at we're building houses, three or four bedroom

:50:05. > :50:09.houses, detached houses, all I did get. Not enough bungalows for older

:50:10. > :50:13.people. If you have bungalows, that allows older people to move out of

:50:14. > :50:16.homes, freeing them up for xounger families.

:50:17. > :50:19.Chances are your keepy-uppids might not be as good

:50:20. > :50:26.Tracey Crouch was in Sheffidld this week to open a new football centre.

:50:27. > :50:29.A bit of camera trickery here if you look closely,

:50:30. > :50:31.but the minister is a qualified coach

:50:32. > :50:39.But why do so many girls drop out of sport in their teens,

:50:40. > :50:43.and do they compete on a level playing field with the boys?

:50:44. > :50:56.They were centre stage on the hero's parade.

:50:57. > :50:59.But behind the medals and mdmories, what is a reality

:51:00. > :51:05.The figures are pretty tellhng, half as many women aged 16-24 do

:51:06. > :51:11.Just one in ten at the age of 1 do the required amount

:51:12. > :51:18.There was no shortage of activity at this junior netball club.

:51:19. > :51:21.Liverpool and England footb`ller, James Milner, who has a young

:51:22. > :51:25.daughter, was visiting to m`ke a donation from his charity.

:51:26. > :51:27.From my experience, when I was at school,

:51:28. > :51:31.it seemed girls went out of sport a lot quicker than the boys did

:51:32. > :51:36.But I think the more female role models we have,

:51:37. > :51:38.that's going to keep girls interested in sport

:51:39. > :51:44.If our funding can help that, that's what we're there to do.

:51:45. > :51:46.The coach of Manchester's Stper League netball team says more money

:51:47. > :51:50.would help female sports like hers reach their goals.

:51:51. > :51:54.Ultimately, more funding would be great.

:51:55. > :51:57.At the moment, we are growing, netball is getting huge.

:51:58. > :52:00.I think we've got the highest female participation

:52:01. > :52:12.Cheshire East is the most active area in the North West,

:52:13. > :52:16.but here in Crewe it wasn't difficult to find young womdn

:52:17. > :52:23.I unfortunately stopped to concentrate on GCSEs.

:52:24. > :52:29.I don't know, it was just, kind of...

:52:30. > :52:33.Yeah, once you go to collegd, you just sort of stop all that.

:52:34. > :52:40.In this country, it's unheard of, really.

:52:41. > :52:43.They all work at the Wingatd Centre, a Cheshire charity and gymn`stics

:52:44. > :52:47.club, which produced Olympic medallist Bryony Page.

:52:48. > :52:52.At 14, other things come into it, like boys,

:52:53. > :52:59.I think there's also a huge generation of teenagers that spend

:53:00. > :53:02.a lot of time posting photoshopped pictures on Instagram.

:53:03. > :53:04.I think, for us, the differdnce is we've had positive sports

:53:05. > :53:08.experiences, whereas a lot of people, friends and family,

:53:09. > :53:10.are intimidated or scared bx it because they've had negativd

:53:11. > :53:18.Mission accomplished, history is made in Manchestdr!

:53:19. > :53:22.Manchester City are champions, women's football is growing.

:53:23. > :53:24.But the area's biggest club, Manchester United, doesn't

:53:25. > :53:29.I don't understand it, I've never understood it.

:53:30. > :53:32.The Manchester United fans had a petition going with signatures

:53:33. > :53:35.I've written to them, fans raised a petition,

:53:36. > :53:41.But is really is about time, as women's football progresses.

:53:42. > :53:44.They're not a complete club unless they have a women's team

:53:45. > :53:47.Manchester United has said ht works with 2500 girls in the commtnity,

:53:48. > :53:51.and has successful female youth sides.

:53:52. > :53:54.But many see their stance as further evidence that women may be dqual

:53:55. > :53:56.when it comes to Olympic and Paralympic medals,

:53:57. > :54:03.but, below that, there are still hurdles to overcole.

:54:04. > :54:05.Joining us is Sophie Walker, leader of the Women's Equality Party,

:54:06. > :54:09.which formed last year, and next month holds its first-ever

:54:10. > :54:23.Sophie Walker, the issue of Manchester United not having a

:54:24. > :54:27.women's sides... It's appalling, Manchester Tnited

:54:28. > :54:34.should be leading the way on this. It also goes against the FA's own

:54:35. > :54:39.quality policy, which is th`t clubs should be sharing facilities,

:54:40. > :54:44.physio, space in the club shops for Kate, they should be sharing details

:54:45. > :54:50.of teams on the website. Not even have a team in the first pl`ce is a

:54:51. > :54:54.major problem. But one of the things your report alluded to the dim light

:54:55. > :55:01.touch on is that when 93 prdsent of all the sport broadcast in this

:55:02. > :55:07.country focuses on men's sports there's very little opportunity to

:55:08. > :55:10.resent to women and girls and aspirational Rollins boards. We

:55:11. > :55:15.still don't see them being lauded in the same way that male Olympians

:55:16. > :55:21.are. When you Google female Olympians, you get a list of who's

:55:22. > :55:25.hottest. Does this start in school, this

:55:26. > :55:32.problem for a perils? I think the problem is that girls do

:55:33. > :55:36.not see it broadcast as a choice. We've got 93 present sport focusing

:55:37. > :55:42.on a male sport, so what is in that for girls to aspire to? We know that

:55:43. > :55:50.seeing it, if you see it, you can be it. We know there's the sport

:55:51. > :55:58.England, This Peril Can Campaign. When sponsorship deals coming,

:55:59. > :56:04.sponsorship deals review must boards were 0.4% UK sports deals. @nd there

:56:05. > :56:10.is that little attention pahd by our ad institutions, when femald

:56:11. > :56:14.athletes are not paid the s`me amount as male sportsmen, it is no

:56:15. > :56:20.surprise girls do not want to play sports. I don't think it's

:56:21. > :56:24.particular effective then what is for blame on schools.

:56:25. > :56:29.Louise Bours, I want as, yot're women, deuce do sports?

:56:30. > :56:35.I have to hold my hands up `nd say no, I do not. SFA had come to me, I

:56:36. > :56:41.would have said exactly what survey has just said, I think the ledia,

:56:42. > :56:46.unfortunate, have a huge sh`re of the blame in this. Lots of girls

:56:47. > :56:51.participate in it team sports, but not necessarily football, for

:56:52. > :56:56.example. Where do we see net bowl on TV regularly? Lots of girls

:56:57. > :57:03.dissipate in dans regularly, there are whole platter or of sports that

:57:04. > :57:10.girls participate in, but wd don't see it. Where is women's football?

:57:11. > :57:14.We have match of the day, wd see it everywhere, women's football is now

:57:15. > :57:20.held in much better if steal than it was, but we don't see it in the same

:57:21. > :57:24.relevance as we do at the m`le game. Manchester United did not w`nt

:57:25. > :57:29.comments are not having a women s side. Mike Menzies, in the hnterest

:57:30. > :57:38.of quality, do you do sports? I did a little bit, -- I don't do

:57:39. > :57:43.it, but I watch sport. The women's hockey final was gripping. The BBC

:57:44. > :57:49.should be proud as aloud th`t match to run on past the ten o'clock News.

:57:50. > :57:53.Get the news waiting to allow the nation to watch a British, female

:57:54. > :57:59.team win gold. That was an hconic moment for British sport and women

:58:00. > :58:09.sport. But more needs to be done. What about more funding?

:58:10. > :58:16.A is going in up to 2016 in order to fund that level. I have to say,

:58:17. > :58:24.Manchester United should be taking a leaf out of the book of my local

:58:25. > :58:29.team, Fylde football club m`g, - Fylde Football Club and havd a

:58:30. > :58:33.women's team. Is there a place for you on the

:58:34. > :58:39.political map? Absolutely, we decided to sdt

:58:40. > :58:42.ourselves up in 2015 becausd were coming up to yet another general

:58:43. > :58:45.election where the needs and experiences of women in this country

:58:46. > :58:48.were yet again being presented as an afterthought.

:58:49. > :58:55.But we had to Reza May as the Prime Minister? She's not shy abott using

:58:56. > :58:59.the word feminist. And it's great, you cannot linimise

:59:00. > :59:04.the importance of having a female role model like Theresa May. But

:59:05. > :59:09.there is a big difference in having one woman at the top of a p`rty and

:59:10. > :59:16.having a greater representation of women in politics overall - because

:59:17. > :59:18.men at number one in two to one in Westminster and local counchls but

:59:19. > :59:24.also having the understanding of women's lives as a matter of policy.

:59:25. > :59:27.Our agenda is to make sure women's lives gets a job as everybody's

:59:28. > :59:29.gender. Thank you for joining us.

:59:30. > :59:32.Let's have a look at the rest of the week's news now -

:59:33. > :59:35.here's Rebecca Pukiello with 60 Seconds.

:59:36. > :59:39.The chief executive of Southport and Ormskirk NHS Trust

:59:40. > :59:42.was fired after a year, suspended on full pay.

:59:43. > :59:47.It has been a long, prolongdd and puzzling process.

:59:48. > :59:50.We're at the end of the process we still do not know what

:59:51. > :59:55.Helping our airports take off - Liverpool and Manchester

:59:56. > :59:58.welcome the announcement of a third runway at Heathrow

:59:59. > :00:04.Buried, though not dead - the National Grid puts a new power

:00:05. > :00:07.cable underground to protect the Lake District, but therd

:00:08. > :00:10.will still be pylons across the Furness Peninsul`.

:00:11. > :00:15.This is just a disaster for the landscape of the estuary.

:00:16. > :00:18.Manchester's first openly g`y Lord Mayor, Carl Austin-Beh`n,

:00:19. > :00:21.said he was subjected to homophobic abuse outside

:00:22. > :00:29.And air quality from the Lake District to Liverpool

:00:30. > :00:32.was tested by the special rdsearch plane as part of the

:00:33. > :00:38.It will now help councils ctt emissions.

:00:39. > :00:44.Thank you to my guests this week - Louise Bours and Mark Menzids.

:00:45. > :00:56.Now I'll hand you back to Andrew Neil in London.

:00:57. > :01:01.Barely more than a week now until polling day,

:01:02. > :01:11.and a new revelation rocks the US Presidential election campaign.

:01:12. > :01:14.If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just got more bizarre.

:01:15. > :01:16.The FBI have reopened their investigation into Hillary Clinton's

:01:17. > :01:18.use of private email servers whilst she was Secretary

:01:19. > :01:27.of State, after the discovery of further emails.

:01:28. > :01:31.Though not on her laptop or even the State Department.

:01:32. > :01:34.Donald Trump is saying that it's bigger than Watergate -

:01:35. > :01:36.so could it swing the election in his favour?

:01:37. > :01:38.We spoke to top US pollster, Frank Luntz.

:01:39. > :01:42.The FBI investigation is happening so late in the election process

:01:43. > :01:46.that it would be very difficult to derail a Clinton victory.

:01:47. > :01:49.That said, if there is one thing that could keep Hillary Clinton

:01:50. > :01:54.from the presidency, it's an FBI investigation.

:01:55. > :01:57.But there's still only four states that really matter, Florida, Ohio,

:01:58. > :02:02.Right now, Clinton has beyond the margin of error leads

:02:03. > :02:09.This would have to have a truly significant impact for the election

:02:10. > :02:16.There is a point about a week ago when I was prepared to say that

:02:17. > :02:22.Clinton had a 95% chance of winning this election.

:02:23. > :02:28.Based on what has happened in the last 48 hours,

:02:29. > :02:33.It is still very likely, but I wouldn't bet on it.

:02:34. > :02:36.I thought the 2000 election would be the best election of my lifetime,

:02:37. > :02:41.And then I thought 2008 would be amazing, because we had two

:02:42. > :02:44.challenger candidates and the first African-American President.

:02:45. > :02:53.It is ugly, it's painful, it is as negative as anything

:02:54. > :02:59.The public is angry, the country, overall, is frustrated.

:03:00. > :03:06.But for entertainment value, these candidates probably should

:03:07. > :03:09.have charged us money, because it's better than any movie

:03:10. > :03:12.at ever seen, it's better than any TV show.

:03:13. > :03:23.That was Frank Luntz. He may be right or wrong about Mrs Clinton

:03:24. > :03:32.still having an 80% chance of winning. I would bet on an 80%

:03:33. > :03:36.chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to a high-profile American pollster and

:03:37. > :03:41.strategist last night and he took a rather different view to Frank

:03:42. > :03:44.Luntz. He thought, and I think some other high-profile commentators

:03:45. > :03:49.agree, that this is actually much more serious than some people

:03:50. > :03:54.realise. There are an awful lot of undecided voters out there looking

:03:55. > :03:59.for an excuse to vote Trump. They do not like what they see in either

:04:00. > :04:03.candidate. But because this FBI probe is not going to conclude

:04:04. > :04:08.before the election, the question, the doubt over Hillary Clinton,

:04:09. > :04:13.gives them an excuse to back Trump. The thing that will play on the

:04:14. > :04:17.minds of the voters is, could the 100 day honeymoon turning to the 100

:04:18. > :04:23.day divorce? Which even be impeached? It may give some people

:04:24. > :04:27.an excuse not to vote for Mrs Clinton. It could provide a problem

:04:28. > :04:35.in terms of energising her base The battle ground almost matters more

:04:36. > :04:41.than the polls. Florida and Pennsylvania have been trending to

:04:42. > :04:47.Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win both. He does not get in without

:04:48. > :04:52.both. He needs both. Just coming up in the latest BBC News, the

:04:53. > :04:59.Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs Clinton is now only one point ahead

:05:00. > :05:03.in the national poll. One point Even given my caveat that the state

:05:04. > :05:09.battles are most important. That is incredibly close? It is. Polls

:05:10. > :05:17.yesterday showed Trump nationally closing of. -- up. There is a clear

:05:18. > :05:20.trend and movement. This has reinforced everything that people

:05:21. > :05:25.who have a problem with Hillary Clinton know about Hillary Clinton.

:05:26. > :05:30.Trump is running this insurgent campaign. We have seen at here with

:05:31. > :05:33.Brexit. If you are running an insurgent campaign, you want to be

:05:34. > :05:37.against the ultimate establishment insider and that is what Hillary

:05:38. > :05:43.Clinton is. I suggested it was bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of

:05:44. > :05:47.the FBI is interesting as well. This is a separate investigation into a

:05:48. > :05:52.former congressman, Anthony Wiener, who had done all sorts of things. He

:05:53. > :06:00.seemed to be sex text thing a minor. A 15-year-old girl. The FBI

:06:01. > :06:07.investigate. They get his laptop to see what else he has been too. In

:06:08. > :06:11.the course of that, his wife, now separated, the closest adviser to

:06:12. > :06:21.Hillary Clinton, they find on the laptop e-mails involving the Clinton

:06:22. > :06:27.server to her. And yet the FBI cannot, it needs now a separate

:06:28. > :06:30.warrant to access these e-mails It hasn't got that yet. It has got a

:06:31. > :06:38.warrant to do the congressman e-mails. On the basis of not knowing

:06:39. > :06:45.the content, this has happened. Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican,

:06:46. > :06:49.this guy. Earlier this year he was being praised to the hilt by

:06:50. > :06:54.Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is a nightmare for her. You described

:06:55. > :07:00.the whole sequence. There is nothing definitive to doubt in this

:07:01. > :07:06.sequence. All he is saying is he has discovered more e-mails in effect.

:07:07. > :07:13.They are from the congressman's former wife. On Anthony Wiener's

:07:14. > :07:20.laptop, which apparently she used sometimes. But what that shows is

:07:21. > :07:25.that for all the scrutiny of modern politicians, they cannot escape

:07:26. > :07:30.caricature. And as Tim was just saying, her weakness is perceived to

:07:31. > :07:34.be secretive, elitism and complacency about that elitism. And

:07:35. > :07:40.so just the announcement of a reopening of the investigation so

:07:41. > :07:44.fuels that caricature, you have just revealed a poll giving her a 1%

:07:45. > :07:50.lead. That must be related to what has happened. It is without a shred

:07:51. > :07:55.of evidence that she has done anything wrong. You can see how

:07:56. > :08:00.because people only see things encourage kids, that is deadly

:08:01. > :08:05.serious. -- in caricature. An American friend of mine said we have

:08:06. > :08:12.got our October surprise but we don't know what it is. The FBI must

:08:13. > :08:19.surely come under massive pressure. It did its -- it did this against

:08:20. > :08:22.the Justice Department. The difficulty the FBI had was that this

:08:23. > :08:27.information, for what it's worth, it came to them. Were they not to have

:08:28. > :08:31.said something and it worked to have come out later, they would have been

:08:32. > :08:36.accused of a massive cover-up. They are dammed if they do, dammed if

:08:37. > :08:40.they don't. There is still time for another surprise. And early November

:08:41. > :08:45.surprise. Who knows if there might still be something that comes out on

:08:46. > :08:49.Donald Trump? This is the first election where I can remember we

:08:50. > :08:55.have had two October surprises already. There are is stuff about

:08:56. > :08:59.tapes knocking around about Donald Trump saying racist things. The

:09:00. > :09:03.Clintons have got a lot of friends. It would be a big surprise if we did

:09:04. > :09:05.not see anything else in the next few days.

:09:06. > :09:12.Just when you think it could not get more interesting, it has. There has

:09:13. > :09:13.been plenty in the papers lately about the Ukip leadership saying

:09:14. > :09:16.unpleasant things about each other. But what about Mr Farage himself?

:09:17. > :09:18.What's he up to? Well, on BBC Two tonight we may

:09:19. > :09:21.find out the answer. Well, I'm led to believe

:09:22. > :09:28.she's very experienced. But I don't think Strictly Come

:09:29. > :09:30.Dancing is for me. That is, unless, of course,

:09:31. > :09:36.you fancy popping a cheeky zero No, I don't think Strictly

:09:37. > :09:40.Come Dancing is for me. Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just

:09:41. > :09:46.lost your programme one viewer. I might have nothing to do these

:09:47. > :10:08.days but, realistically, Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It

:10:09. > :10:14.is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel Farage gets his life back. A number

:10:15. > :10:19.of runners and riders. Let's come straight down to it. Who would be

:10:20. > :10:24.the next leader of Ukip? Probably Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite.

:10:25. > :10:30.The one who has the backing, not very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim

:10:31. > :10:40.Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a big donor. The best of a rather weak

:10:41. > :10:51.lot. I think Paul Nuttall should squeak through. I interviewed all

:10:52. > :10:54.three of them this week. Mr Cassandra is a lively character and

:10:55. > :10:58.he knows how to make a few headlines. With a bit of money

:10:59. > :11:01.behind him, anything is possible. This is a guy who has been to the

:11:02. > :11:13.States, who has literally studied what Trump has done. Pees on

:11:14. > :11:20.secondment for the time being. The guy who is his line manager is one

:11:21. > :11:22.of Donald Trump's campaign stop He is extraordinarily right-wing. I am

:11:23. > :11:31.told he kept a picture of Enoch Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater

:11:32. > :11:38.is one of his heroes, for example. There are other candidates. I would

:11:39. > :11:44.suggest, put out as a hypothesis, Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst

:11:45. > :11:49.nightmare. They are more vulnerable in the North. Paul Nuttall is from

:11:50. > :11:54.Merseyside, a working-class background, performs well on

:11:55. > :11:58.television. He is a really good interviewee. He is one of the best

:11:59. > :12:02.around in politics at the moment. However, I think whoever gets it has

:12:03. > :12:10.a massive task. The clip of this Nigel Farage satire partly shows

:12:11. > :12:14.why. His dominance was overwhelming. He, in many ways, did a brilliant

:12:15. > :12:18.job at keeping the show on the road. The trouble for all new political

:12:19. > :12:23.parties is keeping it going is tough. A very different party, the

:12:24. > :12:27.SDP, with all those glamorous figures in it, lasted eight years,

:12:28. > :12:31.something like that. I think they are in real trouble at the moment

:12:32. > :12:37.because of the implosion we have been seeing in front of our eyes and

:12:38. > :12:46.the ideal -- ideological splits Whoever gets it will face a tough

:12:47. > :12:49.tussle. All three of the main contenders want to put Nigel Farage

:12:50. > :12:54.in the House of Lords. They were falling over themselves to soak up

:12:55. > :12:57.two farads. That is how you win this election.

:12:58. > :13:04.Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting his money on? He said he supports

:13:05. > :13:10.Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He

:13:11. > :13:13.thinks it is terribly disorganised, dysfunctional and doesn't want a

:13:14. > :13:16.great deal to do with it for the foreseeable future.

:13:17. > :13:20.It is not quite Trump the Clinton but it is interesting. That is it.

:13:21. > :13:27.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow. And all of next week. Jo Coburn will

:13:28. > :13:31.be your next Sunday because I am off to the United States to begin to

:13:32. > :13:37.rehearse presenting the BBC's US election night coverage on the th

:13:38. > :13:38.of November. It will be here on BBC One, BBC

:13:39. > :13:40.world, BBC News Channel and BBC online.

:13:41. > :14:11.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:14:12. > :14:14.A stone stained with blood and beset with a curse.

:14:15. > :14:18.The Moonstone is of inestimable value in India.

:14:19. > :14:22.Its appointed guardians would move heaven and earth to reclaim it

:14:23. > :14:30.Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.

:14:31. > :14:31.You've got to do something! It's only you that can!

:14:32. > :14:32.He's a scientist, brilliant apparently.

:14:33. > :14:42.But you may be bringing people over here who did things during the war.

:14:43. > :14:46.I will not work for you. I will not work for the British Government

:14:47. > :14:51.Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.