19/03/2017

:00:35. > :00:38.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:39. > :00:42.She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,

:00:43. > :00:55.After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.

:00:56. > :00:57.With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,

:00:58. > :01:01.Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.

:01:02. > :01:04.NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission

:01:05. > :01:08.impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,

:01:09. > :01:12.unless hospitals are given more cash this year.

:01:13. > :01:18.The chief executive of NHS Providers joins me live.

:01:19. > :01:21.Move over George Clooney and Julia Roberts,

:01:22. > :01:24.make way for Burley and Wigan - our councils in Cannes for some

:01:25. > :01:37.All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking

:01:38. > :01:39.to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg

:01:40. > :01:42.from his party's spring conference in York.

:01:43. > :01:46.With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,

:01:47. > :01:48.three of the country's top political commentators:

:01:49. > :01:54.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

:01:55. > :01:56.They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.

:01:57. > :01:59.So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.

:02:00. > :02:05.As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,

:02:06. > :02:08.the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum

:02:09. > :02:12.on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts

:02:13. > :02:15.to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key

:02:16. > :02:20.budget measure just one week after announcing it.

:02:21. > :02:22.Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week

:02:23. > :02:39.Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First

:02:40. > :02:41.Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.

:02:42. > :02:43.She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK

:02:44. > :02:48.By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's

:02:49. > :02:50.future will be decided, not just by me, the

:02:51. > :02:51.Scottish Government, or the

:02:52. > :02:54.SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.

:02:55. > :03:04.Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject

:03:05. > :03:07.amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to

:03:08. > :03:21.The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned

:03:22. > :03:23.attempts to change it and it becomes law.

:03:24. > :03:30.But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.

:03:31. > :03:32.Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.

:03:33. > :03:49.We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the

:03:50. > :03:51.We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling

:03:52. > :04:02.the planned rise in National Insurance for

:04:03. > :04:04.the self-employed announced the budget.

:04:05. > :04:05.It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.

:04:06. > :04:07.The trend towards greater self-employment does create a

:04:08. > :04:10.We will bring forward further proposals

:04:11. > :04:13.but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this

:04:14. > :04:17.It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.

:04:18. > :04:20.By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues

:04:21. > :04:24.fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax

:04:25. > :04:33.Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the

:04:34. > :04:35.Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending

:04:36. > :04:38.But that's not what the Prime Minister

:04:39. > :04:45.Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a

:04:46. > :04:50.We should be working together, not pulling apart.

:04:51. > :04:51.We should be working together to get that

:04:52. > :04:53.right deal for Scotland, that

:04:54. > :04:58.So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and

:04:59. > :05:01.so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.

:05:02. > :05:03.Friday and time for the faithful to gather.

:05:04. > :05:05.SNP activists at their spring conference

:05:06. > :05:16.Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister

:05:17. > :05:19.promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.

:05:20. > :05:22.At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly

:05:23. > :05:28.I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The

:05:29. > :05:30.Evening Standard and, you know, with so many

:05:31. > :05:32.big issues in our world what

:05:33. > :05:37.good analysis, great news journalism.

:05:38. > :05:42.It's a really important time for good journalism that The

:05:43. > :05:44.Evening Standard is going to provide.

:05:45. > :05:51.There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals

:05:52. > :05:56.Under my proposals we keep the Barnett

:05:57. > :05:59.Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the

:06:00. > :06:04.and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.

:06:05. > :06:07.And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the

:06:08. > :06:24.What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,

:06:25. > :06:29.Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign

:06:30. > :06:32.of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the

:06:33. > :06:40.events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with

:06:41. > :06:44.the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy

:06:45. > :06:49.periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and

:06:50. > :06:54.try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.

:06:55. > :06:58.Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or

:06:59. > :07:01.so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily

:07:02. > :07:05.the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel

:07:06. > :07:09.more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential

:07:10. > :07:13.drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your

:07:14. > :07:17.original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic

:07:18. > :07:22.quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory

:07:23. > :07:26.backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school

:07:27. > :07:29.funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will

:07:30. > :07:34.get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.

:07:35. > :07:39.Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister

:07:40. > :07:43.said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime

:07:44. > :07:48.Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done

:07:49. > :07:53.quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in

:07:54. > :07:56.frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,

:07:57. > :08:00.OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has

:08:01. > :08:03.already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with

:08:04. > :08:07.Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle

:08:08. > :08:12.for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality

:08:13. > :08:16.bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same

:08:17. > :08:19.time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge

:08:20. > :08:25.to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and

:08:26. > :08:31.Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it

:08:32. > :08:37.reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is

:08:38. > :08:40.over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is

:08:41. > :08:44.how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is

:08:45. > :08:47.not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a

:08:48. > :08:51.normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more

:08:52. > :08:57.mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible

:08:58. > :09:00.workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to

:09:01. > :09:05.call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she

:09:06. > :09:08.tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a

:09:09. > :09:12.second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the

:09:13. > :09:15.rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this

:09:16. > :09:20.week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to

:09:21. > :09:25.her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She

:09:26. > :09:29.expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for

:09:30. > :09:34.her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows

:09:35. > :09:40.66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off

:09:41. > :09:45.with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second

:09:46. > :09:48.referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined

:09:49. > :09:51.with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her

:09:52. > :09:55.calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,

:09:56. > :10:00.I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your

:10:01. > :10:04.desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a

:10:05. > :10:07.fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak

:10:08. > :10:13.opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most

:10:14. > :10:17.daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I

:10:18. > :10:21.think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an

:10:22. > :10:23.election. I don't think she has thought about how you would

:10:24. > :10:28.manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the

:10:29. > :10:34.energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning

:10:35. > :10:38.the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the

:10:39. > :10:42.small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.

:10:43. > :10:45.Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be

:10:46. > :10:50.difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of

:10:51. > :10:54.going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't

:10:55. > :10:58.and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which

:10:59. > :11:00.is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as

:11:01. > :11:04.commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but

:11:05. > :11:09.they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in

:11:10. > :11:11.unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because

:11:12. > :11:15.she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through

:11:16. > :11:18.Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an

:11:19. > :11:23.early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write

:11:24. > :11:28.a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's

:11:29. > :11:32.box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.

:11:33. > :11:35.The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may

:11:36. > :11:39.replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an

:11:40. > :11:44.election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself

:11:45. > :11:45.you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall

:11:46. > :11:46.see. So if Theresa May did go

:11:47. > :11:49.for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns

:11:50. > :12:00.and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we

:12:01. > :12:02.have just been talking about, executed one of the most

:12:03. > :12:06.embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a

:12:07. > :12:10.torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still

:12:11. > :12:15.so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an

:12:16. > :12:17.early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing

:12:18. > :12:21.ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that

:12:22. > :12:26.we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only

:12:27. > :12:32.challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative

:12:33. > :12:39.for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,

:12:40. > :12:42.would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't

:12:43. > :12:45.want this government to be in power so of course if there is an

:12:46. > :12:49.opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a

:12:50. > :12:54.better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course

:12:55. > :12:59.we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote

:13:00. > :13:03.in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an

:13:04. > :13:07.opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in

:13:08. > :13:11.government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with

:13:12. > :13:14.the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very

:13:15. > :13:18.seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but

:13:19. > :13:23.would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to

:13:24. > :13:26.be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to

:13:27. > :13:29.bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the

:13:30. > :13:34.British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together

:13:35. > :13:38.Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a

:13:39. > :13:43.General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance

:13:44. > :13:47.of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an

:13:48. > :13:51.early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?

:13:52. > :13:55.It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to

:13:56. > :13:58.dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories

:13:59. > :14:02.in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that

:14:03. > :14:05.opportunity to put that case to the British people.

:14:06. > :14:13.Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all

:14:14. > :14:16.but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?

:14:17. > :14:19.How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of

:14:20. > :14:23.money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the

:14:24. > :14:29.Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it

:14:30. > :14:36.inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to

:14:37. > :14:42.build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We

:14:43. > :14:46.have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are

:14:47. > :14:49.taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian

:14:50. > :14:53.Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the

:14:54. > :14:57.Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the

:14:58. > :15:00.support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the

:15:01. > :15:05.electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready

:15:06. > :15:09.for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got

:15:10. > :15:14.your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the

:15:15. > :15:18.shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if

:15:19. > :15:21.there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these

:15:22. > :15:27.things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its

:15:28. > :15:32.annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates

:15:33. > :15:35.policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last

:15:36. > :15:39.Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a

:15:40. > :15:44.fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much

:15:45. > :15:48.extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going

:15:49. > :15:52.to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.

:15:53. > :15:57.I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We

:15:58. > :16:02.have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out

:16:03. > :16:06.Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there

:16:07. > :16:10.hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war

:16:11. > :16:15.footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,

:16:16. > :16:20.can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under

:16:21. > :16:26.a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.

:16:27. > :16:30.And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an

:16:31. > :16:34.election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th

:16:35. > :16:40.of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't

:16:41. > :16:44.having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy

:16:45. > :16:48.development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think

:16:49. > :16:52.you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll

:16:53. > :16:58.ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the

:16:59. > :17:01.Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in

:17:02. > :17:06.safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long

:17:07. > :17:11.does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the

:17:12. > :17:15.Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour

:17:16. > :17:19.Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party

:17:20. > :17:25.merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in

:17:26. > :17:30.case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be

:17:31. > :17:34.talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation

:17:35. > :17:38.about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually

:17:39. > :17:42.for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting

:17:43. > :17:46.with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the

:17:47. > :17:52.prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,

:17:53. > :17:56.given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its

:17:57. > :17:59.mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be

:18:00. > :18:05.about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17

:18:06. > :18:10.behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as

:18:11. > :18:13.an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you

:18:14. > :18:19.still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?

:18:20. > :18:26.These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was

:18:27. > :18:30.settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.

:18:31. > :18:35.Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it

:18:36. > :18:41.is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it

:18:42. > :18:45.is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will

:18:46. > :18:49.you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future

:18:50. > :18:58.looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,

:18:59. > :19:01.where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit

:19:02. > :19:04.cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make

:19:05. > :19:07.sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to

:19:08. > :19:10.fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to

:19:11. > :19:17.make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour

:19:18. > :19:22.returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.

:19:23. > :19:25.And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring

:19:26. > :19:27.conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.

:19:28. > :19:35.Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps

:19:36. > :19:41.Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In

:19:42. > :19:49.what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not

:19:50. > :19:55.saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim

:19:56. > :19:58.Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware

:19:59. > :20:05.what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was

:20:06. > :20:11.arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound

:20:12. > :20:17.supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as

:20:18. > :20:21.Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so

:20:22. > :20:25.ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,

:20:26. > :20:30.Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more

:20:31. > :20:34.isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach

:20:35. > :20:39.that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans

:20:40. > :20:48.to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,

:20:49. > :20:53.Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,

:20:54. > :20:57.nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In

:20:58. > :21:04.what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has

:21:05. > :21:09.interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote

:21:10. > :21:14.you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over

:21:15. > :21:18.the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have

:21:19. > :21:22.to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was

:21:23. > :21:27.in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not

:21:28. > :21:33.right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we

:21:34. > :21:39.have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald

:21:40. > :21:45.Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different

:21:46. > :21:51.view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not

:21:52. > :21:56.antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not

:21:57. > :22:00.aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the

:22:01. > :22:06.British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by

:22:07. > :22:14.choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing

:22:15. > :22:18.so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self

:22:19. > :22:22.harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the

:22:23. > :22:27.threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so

:22:28. > :22:32.ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view

:22:33. > :22:41.speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not

:22:42. > :22:45.challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs

:22:46. > :22:50.that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring

:22:51. > :22:55.conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long

:22:56. > :23:00.time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a

:23:01. > :23:05.realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards

:23:06. > :23:12.that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a

:23:13. > :23:16.realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want

:23:17. > :23:21.that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the

:23:22. > :23:25.recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People

:23:26. > :23:30.often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election

:23:31. > :23:34.we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we

:23:35. > :23:43.have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in

:23:44. > :23:49.Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way

:23:50. > :23:58.seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted

:23:59. > :24:01.for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling

:24:02. > :24:05.increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party

:24:06. > :24:08.because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable

:24:09. > :24:15.from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk

:24:16. > :24:19.on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite

:24:20. > :24:24.them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across

:24:25. > :24:28.parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster

:24:29. > :24:33.village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,

:24:34. > :24:36.inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people

:24:37. > :24:48.on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the

:24:49. > :24:53.ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence

:24:54. > :24:57.to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be

:24:58. > :25:06.thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we

:25:07. > :25:10.are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the

:25:11. > :25:14.referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated

:25:15. > :25:18.ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something

:25:19. > :25:23.unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can

:25:24. > :25:34.guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the

:25:35. > :25:39.British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work

:25:40. > :25:43.out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she

:25:44. > :25:49.will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new

:25:50. > :25:54.trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of

:25:55. > :25:58.that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there

:25:59. > :26:03.will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use

:26:04. > :26:10.this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling

:26:11. > :26:14.back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or

:26:15. > :26:19.thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were

:26:20. > :26:26.promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this

:26:27. > :26:30.glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the

:26:31. > :26:34.world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of

:26:35. > :26:38.years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to

:26:39. > :26:42.take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of

:26:43. > :26:50.quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always

:26:51. > :26:56.welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is

:26:57. > :26:59.certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you

:27:00. > :27:06.spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or

:27:07. > :27:13.spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper

:27:14. > :27:20.editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's

:27:21. > :27:26.feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law

:27:27. > :27:30.against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will

:27:31. > :27:37.again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also

:27:38. > :27:41.wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in

:27:42. > :27:47.the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his

:27:48. > :27:53.self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on

:27:54. > :27:56.a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you

:27:57. > :28:00.will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.

:28:01. > :28:03.Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been

:28:04. > :28:06.warning the health service needs more money to help it meet

:28:07. > :28:09.But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered

:28:10. > :28:11.no immediate relief, and today the head of

:28:12. > :28:13.the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds

:28:14. > :28:16.of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency

:28:17. > :28:17.care and planned operations, unless the Government

:28:18. > :28:25.Warnings over funding are not exactly new.

:28:26. > :28:28.Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,

:28:29. > :28:32.published his plan for the future of the health service.

:28:33. > :28:35.In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England

:28:36. > :28:38.would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.

:28:39. > :28:41.To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money

:28:42. > :28:44.from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,

:28:45. > :28:47.and that the health service could account for the rest by making

:28:48. > :28:55.The Government says it's given the health service more than what it

:28:56. > :28:57.asked for, and that NHS in England will have received

:28:58. > :29:02.That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair

:29:03. > :29:05.of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more

:29:06. > :29:08.like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget

:29:09. > :29:14.have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.

:29:15. > :29:17.Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished

:29:18. > :29:19.the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts

:29:20. > :29:22.from the Government, the NHS is likely to record

:29:23. > :29:27.Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A

:29:28. > :29:29.departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being

:29:30. > :29:37.This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care

:29:38. > :29:41.but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn

:29:42. > :29:44.that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked

:29:45. > :29:49.And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS

:29:50. > :29:55.Providers in England, Chris Hopson.

:29:56. > :30:02.Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra

:30:03. > :30:06.money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part

:30:07. > :30:10.of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a

:30:11. > :30:15.bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so

:30:16. > :30:18.on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18

:30:19. > :30:22.billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising

:30:23. > :30:26.more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that

:30:27. > :30:31.is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS

:30:32. > :30:35.knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are

:30:36. > :30:42.somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.

:30:43. > :30:50.Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22

:30:51. > :30:55.billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year

:30:56. > :31:00.and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25

:31:01. > :31:05.billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the

:31:06. > :31:09.2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to

:31:10. > :31:14.which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period

:31:15. > :31:18.and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen

:31:19. > :31:24.before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come

:31:25. > :31:28.onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some

:31:29. > :31:32.extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument

:31:33. > :31:37.about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this

:31:38. > :31:41.extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?

:31:42. > :31:46.Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward

:31:47. > :31:50.view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the

:31:51. > :31:53.centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms

:31:54. > :31:57.length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was

:31:58. > :32:01.consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that

:32:02. > :32:06.the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS

:32:07. > :32:10.where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every

:32:11. > :32:14.year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able

:32:15. > :32:20.to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding

:32:21. > :32:24.increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release

:32:25. > :32:29.we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would

:32:30. > :32:35.not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in

:32:36. > :32:38.other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts

:32:39. > :32:43.Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.

:32:44. > :32:50.Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.

:32:51. > :32:53.How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we

:32:54. > :32:57.estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you

:32:58. > :33:03.clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour

:33:04. > :33:07.A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and

:33:08. > :33:12.operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900

:33:13. > :33:16.million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you

:33:17. > :33:20.would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of

:33:21. > :33:24.those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion

:33:25. > :33:29.on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5

:33:30. > :33:32.billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is

:33:33. > :33:38.important we should make an important distinction about the NHS

:33:39. > :33:41.versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour

:33:42. > :33:45.government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return

:33:46. > :33:50.for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,

:33:51. > :33:54.the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery

:33:55. > :33:58.we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would

:33:59. > :34:02.want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for

:34:03. > :34:07.it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest

:34:08. > :34:11.financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going

:34:12. > :34:16.up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand

:34:17. > :34:21.go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I

:34:22. > :34:24.think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going

:34:25. > :34:29.to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I

:34:30. > :34:33.think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS

:34:34. > :34:37.as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have

:34:38. > :34:42.got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36

:34:43. > :34:48.office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to

:34:49. > :34:52.1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know

:34:53. > :34:57.in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the

:34:58. > :35:00.last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement

:35:01. > :35:08.gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25

:35:09. > :35:11.billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But

:35:12. > :35:14.having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where

:35:15. > :35:20.there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it

:35:21. > :35:24.for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its

:35:25. > :35:28.contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as

:35:29. > :35:33.efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for

:35:34. > :35:37.you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise

:35:38. > :35:41.those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would

:35:42. > :35:45.go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a

:35:46. > :35:48.deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the

:35:49. > :35:53.moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release

:35:54. > :36:05.land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts

:36:06. > :36:07.which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous

:36:08. > :36:09.organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.

:36:10. > :36:09.Have you raised that with the government?

:36:10. > :36:22.Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard

:36:23. > :36:27.somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big

:36:28. > :36:31.salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for

:36:32. > :36:34.the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more

:36:35. > :36:38.money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being

:36:39. > :36:43.properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And

:36:44. > :36:50.yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in

:36:51. > :36:53.a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I

:36:54. > :36:55.have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight

:36:56. > :36:59.in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,

:37:00. > :37:02.mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most

:37:03. > :37:06.complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to

:37:07. > :37:10.be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we

:37:11. > :37:13.should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid

:37:14. > :37:19.are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion

:37:20. > :37:26.a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There

:37:27. > :37:29.was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the

:37:30. > :37:33.problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need

:37:34. > :37:37.and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having

:37:38. > :37:41.to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem

:37:42. > :37:47.and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those

:37:48. > :37:52.amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas

:37:53. > :37:56.is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you

:37:57. > :37:59.could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,

:38:00. > :38:05.what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government

:38:06. > :38:10.has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing

:38:11. > :38:14.funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can

:38:15. > :38:19.I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the

:38:20. > :38:25.first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we

:38:26. > :38:29.can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work

:38:30. > :38:33.in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very

:38:34. > :38:37.important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the

:38:38. > :38:41.financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being

:38:42. > :38:44.asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of

:38:45. > :38:46.time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.

:38:47. > :38:48.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:49. > :38:51.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:52. > :39:02.I'm Nina Warhurst, coming up in the North West:

:39:03. > :39:05.Move over George and Julia, make way for Burnley and Wigan -

:39:06. > :39:10.our councils in Cannes for some pre-Brexit business.

:39:11. > :39:13.Yes, this place is normally a playground for the stars, but this

:39:14. > :39:16.week the Northern Powerhouse headed to Provence.

:39:17. > :39:21.Phil McCann's on the Cote d'Azur and I'm not.

:39:22. > :39:24.But we have the Manchester Ship Canal and sunshine and light,

:39:25. > :39:33.Antoinette Sandbach is the Conservative MP for Eddisbury,

:39:34. > :39:36.and Jim McMahon the Labour MP for Oldham West and Royton.

:39:37. > :39:39.We start with the Conservative Party's fine by the Electoral

:39:40. > :39:42.Commission for failing to report election spending properly.

:39:43. > :39:46.Last year, police were investigating seven current or former North West

:39:47. > :39:50.MPs whose constituencies were visited by this battlebus

:39:51. > :39:56.That's because costs like these overnight stays at the Holiday Inn

:39:57. > :39:59.in Bolton were declared as national spending, rather than as part

:40:00. > :40:05.Bury North's David Nuttall - with the bus here -

:40:06. > :40:09.was one of three Greater Manchester MPs under investigation.

:40:10. > :40:13.He and Mary Robinson in Cheadle say they've had no update,

:40:14. > :40:18.but Hazel Grove MP Will Wragg - seen with David Cameron here -

:40:19. > :40:22.says his case has been referred to the Crown Prosecution Service.

:40:23. > :40:24.And Lancashire Police are still investigating Rossendale

:40:25. > :40:33.Here's what David Nuttall told us last year.

:40:34. > :40:36.Now, all the candidates where it visited all put it down as local...

:40:37. > :40:43.This is my fifth general election, and every general

:40:44. > :40:45.election I've fought, we've dealt with these

:40:46. > :40:50.That was his defence this week, as well as Will Wragg,

:40:51. > :40:55.Antoinette, the defence seems to be, that's the way it is,

:40:56. > :40:58.that's the way it's always been - that doesn't wash with

:40:59. > :41:03.This was national campaigning, and the Conservative Party have

:41:04. > :41:07.accepted, with those fines, that they made errors in declaring

:41:08. > :41:13.I know that Labour had a battle bus that came and stayed

:41:14. > :41:16.in the Nunsmere Hotel, a very nice hotel in my constituency.

:41:17. > :41:20.I sure it was declared, but they too have been fined for mistakes,

:41:21. > :41:27.Clearly, there is an issue of a national spend,

:41:28. > :41:30.but I don't think it can be blamed on the individual MPs.

:41:31. > :41:33.Jim, is that a point, they've been notable

:41:34. > :41:37.We've approached several to get a comment on this.

:41:38. > :41:39.Is it exactly the same for the Labour party?

:41:40. > :41:41.I think we should separate out the individual MPs

:41:42. > :41:46.I think all of which do a decent job, regardless of party politics,

:41:47. > :41:48.in terms of providing a decent representation

:41:49. > :41:53.And election law, which is pretty clear in terms of how

:41:54. > :41:56.you fight elections, where funding ought to come

:41:57. > :41:59.from and how you contribute funding in different places.

:42:00. > :42:02.Sometimes that's complicated, particularly in national campaigns,

:42:03. > :42:05.where there is a degree of national party involvement.

:42:06. > :42:08.Often, that's done in a way without the candidate

:42:09. > :42:12.and agent being spoken to, or discussed when the battle bus

:42:13. > :42:15.So you do have sympathy with any party's MPs then?

:42:16. > :42:19.I think maybe where my sympathies end is that, actually,

:42:20. > :42:22.fundamentally, the responsibility lies with the candidate

:42:23. > :42:25.and the agents to make sure the declaration is correct.

:42:26. > :42:28.OK, but I've stood in elections where unions have written out

:42:29. > :42:34.With a very strong political message, which doesn't count as part

:42:35. > :42:37.of Labour Party spend and never has done.

:42:38. > :42:40.So maybe there are lessons to be learned...

:42:41. > :42:43.I would say, that would be trade unions writing to their own members,

:42:44. > :42:46.giving a view about how they view the candidates.

:42:47. > :42:48.And that's clearly designed to influence the way they vote,

:42:49. > :42:52.and to influence them to vote Labour, and that's never, ever

:42:53. > :42:57.But that doesn't come from central party spending.

:42:58. > :43:00.And let's be clear, the amount we're talking about is 0.6%

:43:01. > :43:06.The concern from the Electoral Commission is, once again,

:43:07. > :43:10.voter's confidence in democratic elections are undermined.

:43:11. > :43:13.So regardless of the point that it's a tiny fraction...

:43:14. > :43:15.The Conservatives underspent on their national

:43:16. > :43:21.The budget should have been easier to account for in that sense!

:43:22. > :43:24.And the way that the Electoral Commission has communicated this,

:43:25. > :43:28.I think, has helped contribute to that lack of confidence.

:43:29. > :43:32.I think it could perhaps have been approached in a different way.

:43:33. > :43:34.But how do you explain then, the Electoral Commission,

:43:35. > :43:37.it's very unusual for them, by the way, to get into this.

:43:38. > :43:40.They like to be a bit under the radar when it comes to getting

:43:41. > :43:43.They were very clear that the Conservative Party

:43:44. > :43:47.It's cost the public money, because the Conservative Party

:43:48. > :43:49.didn't provide answers to the questions of the report.

:43:50. > :43:54.We're going to have to move on, and we'll find out in May

:43:55. > :43:58.whether the CPS move forward with prosecutions.

:43:59. > :44:00.From battlebuses to Brexit, and we're officially under starter's

:44:01. > :44:03.orders after both Houses gave their go-ahead to trigger

:44:04. > :44:07.But our council leaders aren't sitting around waiting

:44:08. > :44:11.for the Prime Minister to fire that starting pistol.

:44:12. > :44:14.They've been looking for a head start in the south of France.

:44:15. > :44:19.And poor old Phil McCann was forced to go too.

:44:20. > :44:23.Normally in Cannes, it's Julia and George on the red carpet.

:44:24. > :44:26.At this time of year, it is more about Wigan and Wirral.

:44:27. > :44:32.This annual event is Europe's biggest investment exhibition,

:44:33. > :44:36.where our councils pitch stalls and marquees to try and get a slice

:44:37. > :44:41.We need investment, this is a great opportunity for Manchester

:44:42. > :44:48.We're coming out here to see what we can learn and how we can

:44:49. > :44:50.attract more and more investment into Lancashire.

:44:51. > :44:54.I'm bit shocked about it, you're next door to Malta, you know,

:44:55. > :45:07.This year, it's the biggest British delegation to this international

:45:08. > :45:12.And they knew that when they came to the sunshine of the south

:45:13. > :45:15.of France, they had to cast a light on the shadow that's been created

:45:16. > :45:20.So what does business make of Brexit?

:45:21. > :45:23.If you think it's bad, please raise your hands.

:45:24. > :45:26.We all recognise the uncertainties which Brexit

:45:27. > :45:30.represents, not just in terms of political uncertainty,

:45:31. > :45:33.but also economic management and fiscal uncertainty as well.

:45:34. > :45:37.One of the roles we've all got to play here

:45:38. > :45:39.is to demonstrate we're still open for business.

:45:40. > :45:42.It's unclear what the full outcome will be, but I think,

:45:43. > :45:45.as a place to invest, the UK, no matter how you look

:45:46. > :45:48.at it, all the different metrics you look at,

:45:49. > :45:52.it's is still a very strong, important investment market.

:45:53. > :45:54.North West councils know that they need to show the region

:45:55. > :45:59.But they also know the idea of them swanning about here

:46:00. > :46:01.in the south of France, sipping champagne, doesn't

:46:02. > :46:06.And so they try to show what they'll achieve

:46:07. > :46:11.Like Wirral's plan to regenerate Birkenhead.

:46:12. > :46:15.I just gauge by the level of interest I've had from developers

:46:16. > :46:18.and investors in the last year, I just think the time's right.

:46:19. > :46:24.There is a buzz about Wirral and Birkenhead.

:46:25. > :46:26.And in Manchester, where contentious plans for tower blocks,

:46:27. > :46:28.headed up by this man, will be rethought.

:46:29. > :46:33.There is no doubt that some of the suggestions that have been

:46:34. > :46:35.made to us during the consultation process, during the planning

:46:36. > :46:39.We need to refine certain aspects of it, we need to change

:46:40. > :46:47.We still fundamentally believe in scale.

:46:48. > :46:50.It's that kind of progress that people who can afford these

:46:51. > :46:53.yachts want to hear, as they think about where

:46:54. > :46:55.to invest their cash, as Britain gets ready to sail away

:46:56. > :47:12.I was chatting to Phil today as he applied his actor son. He said, far

:47:13. > :47:17.from being all doom and gloom over there, in the light of Brexit, the

:47:18. > :47:25.result is from trading bodies. You noted your concern about Brexit by

:47:26. > :47:28.denying the whip over Article 50. Do you think things are as bad as they

:47:29. > :47:33.seem? I actually voted for Article 50 and

:47:34. > :47:37.supported the bill. My abstention was in terms of a meaningful vote at

:47:38. > :47:40.the end of the process, but absolutely supported the bill. I

:47:41. > :47:44.supported the Prime Minister in going out there and selling Britain.

:47:45. > :47:49.I think there are opportunities, I went to see her take those

:47:50. > :47:52.opportunities, both in forging a new relationship with Europe, but also

:47:53. > :47:58.forging a new relationship outside of Europe. She's way that out very

:47:59. > :48:03.clearly in her Lancaster house speech. I'm delighted to hear of the

:48:04. > :48:07.optimism out there. Jim, do you think it will be

:48:08. > :48:10.optimistic moving forward for businesses from Europe?

:48:11. > :48:14.I think in North West point of view, the crowd here what happened from

:48:15. > :48:17.London. What happened because Theresa May stands up and makes a

:48:18. > :48:22.speech. It will happen because relationships are developed at a

:48:23. > :48:26.local level. We see the growth in Merseyside and Greater Manchester,

:48:27. > :48:31.the work being done in Lancashire as well, that's because of local

:48:32. > :48:36.weighbridge, that's local leadership, relationships are being

:48:37. > :48:40.forged. I think that's fantastic, being ambassadors for investment is

:48:41. > :48:43.fantastic. That is because George Osborne and

:48:44. > :48:47.the whole northern power has concept was about driving down powers to

:48:48. > :48:53.local communities so they could go out there, so they can make the

:48:54. > :48:57.plans and sell their local area. I think George Osborne's promotion of

:48:58. > :49:00.the Northern Powerhouse has been absolutely key in the perception in

:49:01. > :49:04.the international investment community about the opportunities

:49:05. > :49:07.that are appear in the North West. Well, we soon will see if they have

:49:08. > :49:10.time for the Northern Powerhouse time for the Northern Powerhouse

:49:11. > :49:14.partnership, because Brexit has worked out well for Antoinette's

:49:15. > :49:18.constituency neighbour, George Osborne.

:49:19. > :49:20.He lost his job as Chancellor, but he's now been appointed editor

:49:21. > :49:25.Here he is in his Tatton seat, which he says he wants

:49:26. > :49:29.He also told us a few months back that he'd like to carry

:49:30. > :49:32.on as a North West MP if Tatton disappears due to boundary changes.

:49:33. > :49:35.Antoinette, quite an extraordinary announcement this week.

:49:36. > :49:38.The big question on everybody's lips, how can you possibly do two

:49:39. > :49:41.Well, I think he did two massive jobs well

:49:42. > :49:43.when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer,

:49:44. > :49:47.Hang on, that's a big job that serves the public,

:49:48. > :49:50.that the public accept as part of his role an MP.

:49:51. > :49:52.It's totally different to serving a Russian businessman?

:49:53. > :49:55.Clearly, he's been offered a job, I don't know what the contract is,

:49:56. > :49:58.I don't know what the terms are, but has clearly demonstrated

:49:59. > :50:03.that he has the ability to show that leadership role and to work

:50:04. > :50:08.at an incredibly intense level, if I can put it that way.

:50:09. > :50:12.You both told me, when you arrived today, about the pressures

:50:13. > :50:15.on you at constituency level, having a surgery on Fridays.

:50:16. > :50:18.You must concede that to do your job properly,

:50:19. > :50:21.to serve your constituents well, and to be in Parliament

:50:22. > :50:23.and listen to every debate that goes on thoroughly,

:50:24. > :50:26.you can't spend every morning in a newsroom?

:50:27. > :50:30.I have to say, if you look at the BBC Parliament channel,

:50:31. > :50:32.you'll see that quite often we aren't able to listen to every

:50:33. > :50:37.debate, because there are other calls on our time.

:50:38. > :50:41.I sit on the BEIS Select Committee, and a considerable of my time

:50:42. > :50:45.is devoted to those inquiries and that evidence.

:50:46. > :50:48.Once again, though, serving the public rather than a newspaper?

:50:49. > :50:50.I think George Osborne has served the public

:50:51. > :50:53.for an exceptionally long time, I think he has a good track record,

:50:54. > :50:57.and at the end of the day, it will be up to his constituents

:50:58. > :51:02.That's true, and actually, Jim, that's the argument from the local

:51:03. > :51:06.They've said, yes, he was a brilliant Chancellor

:51:07. > :51:09.and he was a brilliant local MP at the same time,

:51:10. > :51:14.But we all play a part to a lesser or greater extent in the workings

:51:15. > :51:17.of Parliament, that's how we govern our country, that's how

:51:18. > :51:23.And if you're an MP, you have your constituency work

:51:24. > :51:26.and be a dilligent constituency MP, supporting people, making

:51:27. > :51:30.sure you're helping your local area to do well.

:51:31. > :51:33.You've also got to make sure you're playing your role

:51:34. > :51:35.as a parliamentarian, and then behind that

:51:36. > :51:39.George Osborne did that as Chancellor, but he's

:51:40. > :51:43.massively distracted now, one by his international

:51:44. > :51:46.responsibilities, giving professional advice.

:51:47. > :51:49.I've no grievance with people getting on and doing well,

:51:50. > :51:53.but there's got to be a limit to what you can do before it truly

:51:54. > :51:55.impacts on your ability to be an MP, which is a full-time

:51:56. > :51:58.But that's a matter for his constituents to judge?

:51:59. > :52:01.His constituents haven't had the ability to judge it...

:52:02. > :52:05.He decided mid-term, in a process, by the way,

:52:06. > :52:09.where his seat is likely to be deleted in the boundary review

:52:10. > :52:13.Clearly, on a human level, you can understand why he might think,

:52:14. > :52:16.if my constituency doesn't exist, then I won't be an MP

:52:17. > :52:18.beyond that point anyway, and I am going to start

:52:19. > :52:21.preparing for what future, my future outside of politics.

:52:22. > :52:26.We don't know, those boundary changes haven't been completed,

:52:27. > :52:34.It's not me hedging my bets, it's George Osborne hedging his bets.

:52:35. > :52:38.Too many local children are waiting too long

:52:39. > :52:41.for mental health treatment, the message from the

:52:42. > :52:43.Children's Commissioner for England this week.

:52:44. > :52:47.MPs meanwhile called for more action to tackle suicides.

:52:48. > :52:49.So are politicians becoming more keen to address

:52:50. > :52:54.I spoke to Alastair Campbell - Burnley fan and former head

:52:55. > :52:57.of communications for Tony Blair - who's had his own problems

:52:58. > :53:04.I think we've made a lot of progress in terms of how

:53:05. > :53:09.And think it's much, much higher up the agenda than it used to be.

:53:10. > :53:12.The fact that we're talking about it now, that I do more talks

:53:13. > :53:16.and interviews about this than anything else at the moment.

:53:17. > :53:22.My big worry, with the National Health Service under

:53:23. > :53:25.as much pressure as it is, that actually psychiatric and

:53:26. > :53:27.mental health services are going down to the bottom

:53:28. > :53:31.In 2012, the Government pledged parity of esteem between mental

:53:32. > :53:37.It should now be a legal obligation for CCGs to deliver that.

:53:38. > :53:40.As we know, in the North West, that is not always the case.

:53:41. > :53:48.Saying parity, saying we should look at mental health in the same way

:53:49. > :53:50.as we look at physical health, that's easy.

:53:51. > :53:53.Theresa May said something in her mental health

:53:54. > :53:58.She said it almost as if she was expecting

:53:59. > :54:01.a round of applause for it - she said that by 2021,

:54:02. > :54:08.from their own region to another region to find a psychiatric bed.

:54:09. > :54:17.That's twice as long as the time she says she's

:54:18. > :54:21.the most complicated thing any Prime Minister's had

:54:22. > :54:24.When local authorities, when local commissioning bodies

:54:25. > :54:27.have their own say over the budget, and they choose what to invest in,

:54:28. > :54:30.how do we stop it being a patchwork of services across,

:54:31. > :54:32.not just the North West, but across the country?

:54:33. > :54:35.It's very difficult, because ultimately, the pressures

:54:36. > :54:40.But what's happening at the moment - you talk about patchwork -

:54:41. > :54:45.what's hanging around the country, commissioning groups that are under

:54:46. > :54:48.massive financial pressures, historically what has happened

:54:49. > :54:52.is that the psychiatric and mental health services have been first

:54:53. > :54:56.in the queue for cuts, and that's happening again.

:54:57. > :54:59.Ultimately, we have to win the argument, that if we invest

:55:00. > :55:01.properly in mental health services now,

:55:02. > :55:03.and we catch people young, that we're going to be saving money

:55:04. > :55:07.We'll save money and addiction services, in prisons,

:55:08. > :55:10.in court services, we'll save money from the divorce courts.

:55:11. > :55:15.We've just got to have this sense of needing to think big about this,

:55:16. > :55:18.and we've got to understand that if we invest in our mental

:55:19. > :55:25.health now, we'll be making savings for the future.

:55:26. > :55:31.Let's start with that point that Alastair Campbell finished on, we

:55:32. > :55:35.know our prisons are getting fuller, we know A raises are on their

:55:36. > :55:42.knees. If we address mental health in the right way,, its basic

:55:43. > :55:45.economics at the Government in severe ignoring?

:55:46. > :55:49.They're not ignoring it. An additional ?1 billion has been put

:55:50. > :55:55.into specifically children's mental health. There is a shortage of Child

:55:56. > :55:58.psychologists, which is a problem. But they are targeting money,

:55:59. > :56:03.particularly at that early age group. And a further 1.25 billion is

:56:04. > :56:09.going into adult mental health services by 2021, as Alastair

:56:10. > :56:12.Campbell pointed out. Much like social care, people who

:56:13. > :56:15.suffer from mental health conditions are not getting the right treatment

:56:16. > :56:20.will say that is the drop in the oven. We know that here, when it

:56:21. > :56:25.comes to referral for depression and entirety, St Helens, you're seen

:56:26. > :56:28.within five days, in Manchester it's 50 days. Ultimately, that is the

:56:29. > :56:31.responsible sales local Government level that's?

:56:32. > :56:33.It is the response ability of the Clinical Commissioning Groups to

:56:34. > :56:38.level the services, new standards have been set to make sure that

:56:39. > :56:42.patients will be seen within the set period of time.

:56:43. > :56:45.Is that fair, that CCGs the typical bond there is an equipment can say,

:56:46. > :56:51.we're giving the money, you deal with it?

:56:52. > :56:57.To be honest, this transcends different governments. For too long,

:56:58. > :57:01.we haven't given mental health the attention it ought to have had. As a

:57:02. > :57:04.society, we're very uncomfortable dealing with people with mental

:57:05. > :57:09.health problems. A lot of people fall through the net because of

:57:10. > :57:12.that. There's no doubt that the fragmentation of mental health

:57:13. > :57:18.service, the money that has been taken away, is as where having an

:57:19. > :57:23.impact. As Alston said, I want to put on record Alastair's courage for

:57:24. > :57:27.telling his own story about this. More people need to do that. We need

:57:28. > :57:29.to create an environment where people have that conversation in

:57:30. > :57:34.public. I do agree with that. Members of

:57:35. > :57:38.Parliament are increasingly coming forward and speak with their own

:57:39. > :57:44.experiences. George Walker has spoken very movingly in the Cadillac

:57:45. > :57:50.house about his own experiences. There is that financial commitment

:57:51. > :57:53.that is clearly needed? You say yourself that is a problem in

:57:54. > :57:58.recruiting child psychiatrists, so there are gaps?

:57:59. > :58:02.There are gaps, and those need to be addressed. But at least the

:58:03. > :58:07.discussion is taking place about the parity of mental health services.

:58:08. > :58:11.It should be a legal responsibility, parity of esteem was pledged five

:58:12. > :58:14.years ago. The problem is, if you were to track

:58:15. > :58:19.back to the different stages, and recognise if there is an issue, once

:58:20. > :58:23.the assessment is carried out, in some places it can take 50 days.

:58:24. > :58:27.You're a young person, that is a big chunk of your school life that has

:58:28. > :58:31.been taken away, notwithstanding everything that has taken this

:58:32. > :58:35.before that. But get the support and investment in that person that is

:58:36. > :58:43.needed, for a lot of people at assist rubble. We can see that in

:58:44. > :58:46.circumstances where meat has been identified, they just get the help

:58:47. > :58:51.they need. It is important to come to your MP,

:58:52. > :58:55.because we can often help to make sure that support is in place.

:58:56. > :59:02.Here's Katie Waldeman now with a look at the rest

:59:03. > :59:04.Care home in crisis - Healthwatch Liverpool says

:59:05. > :59:07.the city's lost 220 beds in the past year and may soon struggle to

:59:08. > :59:12.There was misery for Merseyrail passengers

:59:13. > :59:15.Members of the RMT Union went on strike over plans

:59:16. > :59:21.I honestly don't know why they're doing it.

:59:22. > :59:23.I don't agree with right now, because I'm missing my

:59:24. > :59:26.trains, but there's probably got to be a good reason behind it.

:59:27. > :59:28.Pay up for policing - Lancashire's Crime Commissioner

:59:29. > :59:31.calls for the Government to stump up for the cost of controlling

:59:32. > :59:35.This is not a mess of our making, this is

:59:36. > :59:39.something that has been decided at Westminster once again.

:59:40. > :59:41.A row rumbled on over deal-making on Pendle council -

:59:42. > :59:44.Labour and the Lib Dems denied any agreement with the country's last

:59:45. > :59:51.And the Government's investigating claims that the itinerary for this

:59:52. > :59:56.trip to Cheshire were left on a train.

:59:57. > :00:01.They included details of the Prime Minister's hotel.

:00:02. > :00:03.Well, we started in Cannes, let's finish in Gorton in Manchester.

:00:04. > :00:07.Because the former Labour Party and Respect Party MP George Galloway

:00:08. > :00:13.has been there ahead of a possible by-election bid following the death

:00:14. > :00:24.And this bus has also been touring there with him.

:00:25. > :00:32.The killings of Tony Blair, it says. We know the damage George Galloway

:00:33. > :00:36.can do to Labour Party when a one state, is this a concern for you?

:00:37. > :00:40.It would be a by-election of a circus to come to town, and achieve

:00:41. > :00:45.cloud on this by-election seems to be George Galloway. I have no time

:00:46. > :00:49.or respect for George Galloway. I think you's opportunist, I think he

:00:50. > :00:53.preys on division. I think the voters of Gordon will see through

:00:54. > :01:00.that, and they will support the candidate. I think people respect

:01:01. > :01:04.the work that George Coffman did as an MP, they had a good

:01:05. > :01:08.parliamentarian resenting them, they want to know they have the same

:01:09. > :01:12.standard began. Even if he does have the same impact

:01:13. > :01:17.again, there is a huge majority for the Labour Party in Gordon. While

:01:18. > :01:23.the Conservative Party fight this election?

:01:24. > :01:28.It has been said it is a marginal seat, even with a 25 as a majority!

:01:29. > :01:35.I'm not sure I agree with that, but bull fight.

:01:36. > :01:38.The Labour band in Manchester is so strong, people, and support the

:01:39. > :01:42.Labour brand. But bid on what it stands for, there

:01:43. > :01:45.is no programme from Jeremy Corbyn, and I think it's possible that a

:01:46. > :01:49.good Conservative candidate collapses will find and execute the

:01:50. > :01:53.labour will be. Thank you to Antoinette and general.

:01:54. > :02:02.you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back to you.

:02:03. > :02:04.So, can George Osborne stay on as a member of Parliament

:02:05. > :02:09.Will Conservative backbenchers force a Government re-think

:02:10. > :02:13.And is Theresa May about to cap gas and electricity prices?

:02:14. > :02:22.Whose idea was that first of all? They are all questions for the Week

:02:23. > :02:32.Ahead to. Let's start with the story that is

:02:33. > :02:36.too much fun to miss, on Friday it was announced the former Chancellor

:02:37. > :02:41.would be the new editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper, a

:02:42. > :02:44.position he will take up in mid-May on a salary of ?200,000 for four

:02:45. > :02:48.days a week. But Mr Osborne has said he will not

:02:49. > :02:51.be stepping down as MP for Tatton in Cheshire,

:02:52. > :02:53.a job he's held since 2001, Alongside these duties,

:02:54. > :02:57.he's also chairman of While being committed to one day

:02:58. > :03:03.a week at Black Rock, an American asset management firm -

:03:04. > :03:05.a part-time role that earns him Then he's polishing his academic

:03:06. > :03:11.credentials, as a fellow at the McCain Institute,

:03:12. > :03:13.an American thinktank, And finally as a member

:03:14. > :03:20.of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, he also earns his keep

:03:21. > :03:26.as an after-dinner speaker, banking around ?750,000

:03:27. > :03:39.since last summer. So there you go. Nice little earners

:03:40. > :03:42.if you can get them. The problem, though, is he has put second jobs on

:03:43. > :03:45.the agenda and lots of his fellow MPs are not happy because they have

:03:46. > :03:52.got second jobs but not making that kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs

:03:53. > :03:56.on both sides actually are unhappy about it exactly for those reasons.

:03:57. > :04:00.I find it a very interesting appointment. We have got these

:04:01. > :04:05.people on the centre and centre right of politics who have been used

:04:06. > :04:09.to power since 1997, they have been on the airwaves today, Tony Blair,

:04:10. > :04:13.Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they are all seeking other platforms now

:04:14. > :04:18.because power has moved elsewhere. So Tony Blair is setting up this new

:04:19. > :04:22.foundation, Nick Clegg refused to condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair

:04:23. > :04:28.praised the appointment. They are all searching for new platforms.

:04:29. > :04:31.They might have overestimated the degree to which this will be a huge

:04:32. > :04:37.influential platform. The standard was very pro-Tory at the 2015

:04:38. > :04:42.election but London voted Labour, it was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they

:04:43. > :04:46.elected Sadiq Khan. It might be overestimating the degree to which

:04:47. > :04:50.this is a hugely influential paper. But I can see why it attracts him as

:04:51. > :04:57.a platform when all these platforms have disappeared, eg power and

:04:58. > :05:02.government. All of these people who used to be in power are quietly

:05:03. > :05:06.getting together again, Mr Blair on television this morning, George

:05:07. > :05:11.Osborne not only filling his bank account but now in charge of

:05:12. > :05:15.London's most important newspaper, Nick Clegg out today not saying

:05:16. > :05:21.Brexit was a done deal, waiting to see what happens, even John Major

:05:22. > :05:25.was wheeled out again today in the Mail on Sunday. They are all playing

:05:26. > :05:29.for position. I half expect David Cameron to turn up as features

:05:30. > :05:36.editor on The Evening Standard. Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg,

:05:37. > :05:40.did he not? I do not think this is sustainable for George Osborne, I

:05:41. > :05:43.worked at The Evening Standard and I was there for three years, I know

:05:44. > :05:47.what the hours are like for a humble journalist, never mind the editor.

:05:48. > :05:52.If he thinks he can get at 4am everyday to be in the offices at 5am

:05:53. > :05:56.to oversee the splash, manage everything in the way and edited

:05:57. > :06:01.should he is in cloud cuckoo land. What this says to people is there is

:06:02. > :06:05.a kind of feel of soft corruption about public life here, where you

:06:06. > :06:08.see what you can get away with. He thinks he can brazen this out and

:06:09. > :06:11.maybe he can but what kind of message does that send to people

:06:12. > :06:17.about how seriously people take the role of being an MP? He must have

:06:18. > :06:22.known. He applied for the job. The Russian owner didn't approach him,

:06:23. > :06:27.he approached Lebedev, the proprietor, for it. He must have

:06:28. > :06:31.calculated there would be some kickback. I wonder if he realised

:06:32. > :06:35.there would be quite the kickback there has been. I think that's

:06:36. > :06:39.probably right. This hasn't finished yet, by the way, this will go on and

:06:40. > :06:44.on. How on earth does George Osborne cover the budget in the autumn? Big

:06:45. > :06:49.budget, lots of physical changes and tax rises to deal with the messages

:06:50. > :06:54.out of this week. You can see already, Theresa May budget crashes.

:06:55. > :07:00.It could be worse. She's useless! Or, worse than that, me, brilliant

:07:01. > :07:06.budget, terrible newspaper, I've never buying it again. He has

:07:07. > :07:09.hoisted his own petard. He has not bought it properly through. It's a

:07:10. > :07:16.something interesting about his own future calculations, if he wants to

:07:17. > :07:19.stay on as an MP in 2020 and be Prime Minister as he has or was

:07:20. > :07:22.wanted to be he has got to find a new seat. How do you go into an

:07:23. > :07:28.association and say I should be an MP, I can do it for at least four

:07:29. > :07:31.hours Purdy after editing The Evening Standard, making a big

:07:32. > :07:38.speech and telling Black Rock how to make a big profit. The feature pages

:07:39. > :07:42.have to be approved for the next day and feature pages are aware the

:07:43. > :07:48.editor gets to make their mark. The news is the news. The feature is

:07:49. > :07:51.what concerns you, what he is in your bonnet. That defines the

:07:52. > :08:01.newspaper, doesn't it? It is not over yet. Too much 101 on

:08:02. > :08:03.newspapers. And Haatheq at. School funding, the consultation

:08:04. > :08:12.period ends, it has been a tricky one for the government, some areas

:08:13. > :08:15.losing. I guess we are seeing this through the prism of the National

:08:16. > :08:22.Insurance contributions now, it is a small majority, if Tory MPs are

:08:23. > :08:27.unhappy she may not get her way. Talking to backbench MPs who are

:08:28. > :08:32.unhappy the feeling is it is not going to go ahead in the proposed

:08:33. > :08:36.form that the consultation has been on. No 10 will definitely have to

:08:37. > :08:40.move on this. It is unclear whether they will scrap it completely, or

:08:41. > :08:45.will they bring in something possibly like a base level, floor

:08:46. > :08:50.level pupil funding below which you can't go? You would then still need

:08:51. > :08:54.to find some extra money. So there are no easy solutions on this but

:08:55. > :08:57.what is clear it is not going to go ahead in its current form. Parents

:08:58. > :09:01.have been getting letters across the country in England about what this

:09:02. > :09:05.will mean for teachers and so on in certain schools. It's not just a

:09:06. > :09:10.matter of the education Department, the schools, or the teachers and

:09:11. > :09:15.Tory backbenchers. Parents are being mobilised on this. The point of the

:09:16. > :09:19.new funding formula is to allocate more money to the more

:09:20. > :09:23.disadvantaged. That means schools in the more prosperous suburbs are

:09:24. > :09:27.going to lose money. Budget cuts on schools which are already

:09:28. > :09:31.struggling. It comes down again to be huge problem, the ever smaller

:09:32. > :09:37.fiscal pool, ever greater demands, NHS, social care, education as well,

:09:38. > :09:41.adding to Theresa May and Phillip Hammond's enormous problems. Here is

:09:42. > :09:46.an interesting issue, Steve. There was a labour Leader of the

:09:47. > :09:49.Opposition that once suggested perhaps given these huge energy

:09:50. > :09:53.companies which seemed to be good at passing on energy rises but not so

:09:54. > :09:57.good at cutting energy prices when it falls, that perhaps we should put

:09:58. > :10:02.a cap on them until at least we study how the market goes. This was

:10:03. > :10:07.obviously ludicrous Marxism and quite rightly knocked down by the

:10:08. > :10:11.Conservatives, except that Mrs May is now talking about putting a cap

:10:12. > :10:14.on energy prices. Yes, I think if it wasn't for Brexit we would focus

:10:15. > :10:19.much more on Theresa May's Ed Miliband streak. Whether this

:10:20. > :10:24.translates into policies, let us see. That bit we don't know. That

:10:25. > :10:27.bit we don't know but in terms of argument her speech to the

:10:28. > :10:32.Conservative conference on Friday was about the third or fourth time

:10:33. > :10:37.where she said as part of the speech, let's focus on the good that

:10:38. > :10:42.government can do, including in intervening in markets, exactly in

:10:43. > :10:45.the way that he used to argue. As you say, we await the policy

:10:46. > :10:49.consequences of that. She seems more cautious in terms of policy in

:10:50. > :10:54.fermentation. But in terms of the industrial strategy, in terms of

:10:55. > :10:58.implying intervention in certain markets, there is a kind of

:10:59. > :11:02.Milibandesque streak. And there comes a time when she has to walk

:11:03. > :11:08.the walk as well as talk the talk. They talk a lot about the just about

:11:09. > :11:12.managing, just about managing face rising food bills because of the

:11:13. > :11:18.lower pound and face rising fuel bills because of the rise in oil and

:11:19. > :11:23.in other commodities. One of the two things you could do to help the just

:11:24. > :11:26.about managing is to cut their food bills and the second would be to cut

:11:27. > :11:30.their fuel bills. At some stage she has to do something for them. We

:11:31. > :11:34.don't know what is going to happen to food bills under Brexit, that

:11:35. > :11:37.could become a really serious issue. They could abolish tariffs. There

:11:38. > :11:41.has been a lot of talking the talk and big announcements put out and

:11:42. > :11:43.not following through so I agree with you on that but lots of Tory

:11:44. > :11:58.MPs will have a big problem on this and the principle of

:11:59. > :12:00.continually talking about interfering in markets, whether it's

:12:01. > :12:03.on executive pay, whether it is on energy, at a time when Britain needs

:12:04. > :12:06.to send out this message to the world in their view, in the view of

:12:07. > :12:09.Brexit supporting MPs, that we are open for business and the government

:12:10. > :12:11.is not about poking around and doing this kind of thing. Of course, you

:12:12. > :12:14.could argue there is not a problem in the market for energy, it is a

:12:15. > :12:17.malfunctioning market that doesn't operate like a free market should,

:12:18. > :12:21.so that provides even Adam Smith, the inventor of market economics

:12:22. > :12:24.would have said on that basis you should intervene. I was in Cardiff

:12:25. > :12:27.to listen to Theresa May's latest explanation for doing this. By the

:12:28. > :12:33.way, we've been waiting nine months, this was one of her big ideas. You

:12:34. > :12:37.are right, let's see a bit of the meat, please. My newspaper has been

:12:38. > :12:40.calling for some pretty hefty government action on this for quite

:12:41. > :12:46.some time. For the just about managings? Yes and specifically to

:12:47. > :12:49.sort out an energy market dominated by the big six, which is manifestly

:12:50. > :12:53.ripping people off left, right and centre. Theresa May's argument in

:12:54. > :12:59.Cardiff on Friday morning which, by the way, went down like a proverbial

:13:00. > :13:02.windbreak at the proverbial funeral because Tories... You know what I

:13:03. > :13:06.mean Andrew, the big hand coming into from the state telling

:13:07. > :13:10.businesses what to do. They went very quiet indeed. They were having

:13:11. > :13:14.saving the union and Nato but there was no clapping for that. The point

:13:15. > :13:18.being, this is what she needs to do to prove her assault, to prove those

:13:19. > :13:22.first words on the steps of Downing Street. We await to see the actions

:13:23. > :13:29.taken. On that unusual agreement we will

:13:30. > :13:31.leave it there. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at

:13:32. > :13:34.noon and everyday during the week. And I'll be here on BBC One

:13:35. > :13:37.next Sunday at 11am. Remember, if it's Sunday,

:13:38. > :14:20.it's the Sunday Politics. I've not given myself that time

:14:21. > :14:25.to sit down