:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four
:00:44. > :00:45.extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up
:00:46. > :00:48.to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just
:00:49. > :00:54.Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -
:00:55. > :00:56.how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger
:00:57. > :01:03.I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.
:01:04. > :01:07.And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first
:01:08. > :01:10.round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact
:01:11. > :01:13.on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests?
:01:14. > :01:15.And we'll bring you the latest from Battleground North West,
:01:16. > :01:17.where there are more marginals than anywhere else.
:01:18. > :01:22.Visits from three leaders in four days.
:01:23. > :01:24.Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision?
:01:25. > :01:26.Or feel they may not like it but the Tories
:01:27. > :01:41.And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap
:01:42. > :01:44.general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and
:01:45. > :01:45.brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly
:01:46. > :01:49.Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this
:01:50. > :01:51.morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank
:01:52. > :01:53.holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints
:01:54. > :01:55.of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be
:01:56. > :02:02.getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this
:02:03. > :02:06.morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister
:02:07. > :02:09.if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike
:02:10. > :02:12.on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,
:02:13. > :02:16.give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,
:02:17. > :02:18.tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you
:02:19. > :02:27.would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back
:02:28. > :02:30.to the whole point? Is the objective
:02:31. > :02:33.to start more strikes that may kill many innocent
:02:34. > :02:36.people, as has happened? Do you think killing
:02:37. > :02:38.the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not
:02:39. > :02:47.being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender
:02:48. > :02:49.in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that
:02:50. > :02:53.the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of
:02:54. > :02:56.Isis. So you've got to think
:02:57. > :03:03.about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his
:03:04. > :03:08.reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been
:03:09. > :03:12.freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of
:03:13. > :03:15.questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause
:03:16. > :03:19.to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut
:03:20. > :03:23.straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the
:03:24. > :03:26.letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister
:03:27. > :03:32.when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --
:03:33. > :03:35.or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he
:03:36. > :03:39.should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines
:03:40. > :03:43.and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question
:03:44. > :03:47.so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make
:03:48. > :03:52.these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or
:03:53. > :03:56.damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the
:03:57. > :03:59.sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's
:04:00. > :04:03.going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they
:04:04. > :04:07.will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't
:04:08. > :04:13.press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to
:04:14. > :04:17.deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think
:04:18. > :04:23.most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the
:04:24. > :04:26.country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would
:04:27. > :04:31.consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been
:04:32. > :04:34.on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's
:04:35. > :04:38.campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr
:04:39. > :04:42.let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or
:04:43. > :04:44.SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral
:04:45. > :04:50.damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the
:04:51. > :04:54.assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral
:04:55. > :04:57.damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the
:04:58. > :05:03.question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,
:05:04. > :05:07.the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It
:05:08. > :05:10.turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to
:05:11. > :05:14.be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about
:05:15. > :05:18.Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but
:05:19. > :05:22.not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course
:05:23. > :05:25.the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a
:05:26. > :05:31.statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where
:05:32. > :05:35.are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident
:05:36. > :05:41.but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We
:05:42. > :05:45.know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this
:05:46. > :05:50.through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in
:05:51. > :05:54.favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is
:05:55. > :05:57.not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.
:05:58. > :06:01.The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the
:06:02. > :06:06.vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always
:06:07. > :06:10.been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you
:06:11. > :06:14.want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and
:06:15. > :06:17.reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like
:06:18. > :06:22.what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been
:06:23. > :06:25.involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and
:06:26. > :06:30.let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world
:06:31. > :06:33.and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be
:06:34. > :06:38.said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself
:06:39. > :06:42.on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree
:06:43. > :06:46.with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes
:06:47. > :06:49.poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James
:06:50. > :06:52.Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would
:06:53. > :06:54.have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are
:06:55. > :06:55.going on. So the political parties have had
:06:56. > :06:58.to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,
:06:59. > :07:02.mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded
:07:03. > :07:03.by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -
:07:04. > :07:09.Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those
:07:10. > :07:13.planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money
:07:14. > :07:16.and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral
:07:17. > :07:22.Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron
:07:23. > :07:26.to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,
:07:27. > :07:32.in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million
:07:33. > :07:37.for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their
:07:38. > :07:42.election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth
:07:43. > :07:44.of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure
:07:45. > :07:51.was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million
:07:52. > :07:54.to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight
:07:55. > :07:59.into the recycling. Cheap for all the
:08:00. > :08:08.enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus
:08:09. > :08:10.into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing
:08:11. > :08:17.all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's
:08:18. > :08:30.discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage
:08:31. > :08:32.was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper
:08:33. > :08:41.cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over
:08:42. > :08:44.?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912
:08:45. > :08:58.promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total
:08:59. > :09:02.for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works
:09:03. > :09:09.out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -
:09:10. > :09:14.and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative
:09:15. > :09:18.election campaigns - for the locals next month
:09:19. > :09:25.and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown
:09:26. > :09:29.Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that
:09:30. > :09:34.your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions
:09:35. > :09:40.in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?
:09:41. > :09:45.Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw
:09:46. > :09:49.them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle
:09:50. > :09:52.buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and
:09:53. > :09:56.it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and
:09:57. > :10:00.agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to
:10:01. > :10:03.include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do
:10:04. > :10:11.nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way
:10:12. > :10:14.the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a
:10:15. > :10:21.careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the
:10:22. > :10:24.law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had
:10:25. > :10:29.battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by
:10:30. > :10:35.14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out
:10:36. > :10:38.how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because
:10:39. > :10:43.you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local
:10:44. > :10:46.constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties
:10:47. > :10:49.had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I
:10:50. > :10:55.don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other
:10:56. > :10:58.battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed
:10:59. > :11:03.these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.
:11:04. > :11:08.That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?
:11:09. > :11:12.Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We
:11:13. > :11:17.believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What
:11:18. > :11:21.will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30
:11:22. > :11:28.people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the
:11:29. > :11:31.campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election
:11:32. > :11:34.expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a
:11:35. > :11:38.hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about
:11:39. > :11:42.who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,
:11:43. > :11:46.you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated
:11:47. > :11:49.the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do
:11:50. > :11:54.exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we
:11:55. > :11:59.believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,
:12:00. > :12:02.stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national
:12:03. > :12:10.campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will
:12:11. > :12:15.be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the
:12:16. > :12:19.Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the
:12:20. > :12:23.guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if
:12:24. > :12:26.you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area
:12:27. > :12:29.where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had
:12:30. > :12:33.and declared. We haven't worked out what to do
:12:34. > :12:36.yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and
:12:37. > :12:39.start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.
:12:40. > :12:42.I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not
:12:43. > :12:46.because last time it seems it could have been illegal.
:12:47. > :12:48.I am sure the campaign will be legal.
:12:49. > :12:53.You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition
:12:54. > :13:01.of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP
:13:02. > :13:03.and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?
:13:04. > :13:05.Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying
:13:06. > :13:08.to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.
:13:09. > :13:15.He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see
:13:16. > :13:18.because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong
:13:19. > :13:21.majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us
:13:22. > :13:25.doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a
:13:26. > :13:29.coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have
:13:30. > :13:33.ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the
:13:34. > :13:37.situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then
:13:38. > :13:40.changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,
:13:41. > :13:44.once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know
:13:45. > :13:48.today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in
:13:49. > :13:52.France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite
:13:53. > :13:58.right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why
:13:59. > :14:01.the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general
:14:02. > :14:05.election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it
:14:06. > :14:12.comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new
:14:13. > :14:15.bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St
:14:16. > :14:20.we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We
:14:21. > :14:26.will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about
:14:27. > :14:30.major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's
:14:31. > :14:35.talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and
:14:36. > :14:39.next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank
:14:40. > :14:43.holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to
:14:44. > :14:46.me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper
:14:47. > :14:50.elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and
:14:51. > :14:54.you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?
:14:55. > :14:59.What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on
:15:00. > :15:03.the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing
:15:04. > :15:08.public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,
:15:09. > :15:12.unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up
:15:13. > :15:16.substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our
:15:17. > :15:20.manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in
:15:21. > :15:26.April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed
:15:27. > :15:35.Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government
:15:36. > :15:38.should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives
:15:39. > :15:42.described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take
:15:43. > :15:47.that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't
:15:48. > :15:51.you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister
:15:52. > :15:54.made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she
:15:55. > :15:57.outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a
:15:58. > :15:59.standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next
:16:00. > :16:05.few weeks when the manifesto was published.
:16:06. > :16:11.Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say
:16:12. > :16:17.when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist
:16:18. > :16:22.act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist
:16:23. > :16:25.manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...
:16:26. > :16:30.You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is
:16:31. > :16:33.unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this
:16:34. > :16:40.morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it
:16:41. > :16:43.earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence
:16:44. > :16:48.services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister
:16:49. > :16:53.gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.
:16:54. > :16:56.We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime
:16:57. > :17:00.Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What
:17:01. > :17:04.we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.
:17:05. > :17:11.I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve
:17:12. > :17:15.if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody
:17:16. > :17:20.else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines
:17:21. > :17:25.their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an
:17:26. > :17:28.organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of
:17:29. > :17:31.Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister
:17:32. > :17:36.is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he
:17:37. > :17:41.wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would
:17:42. > :17:46.achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes
:17:47. > :17:52.in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a
:17:53. > :17:57.regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would
:17:58. > :18:02.achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But
:18:03. > :18:07.the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's
:18:08. > :18:11.been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We
:18:12. > :18:15.must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone
:18:16. > :18:20.strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be
:18:21. > :18:23.prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the
:18:24. > :18:28.Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but
:18:29. > :18:32.the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year
:18:33. > :18:37.negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which
:18:38. > :18:40.certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or
:18:41. > :18:47.House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put
:18:48. > :18:53.in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit
:18:54. > :19:00.negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the
:19:01. > :19:03.single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect
:19:04. > :19:09.every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken
:19:10. > :19:13.Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will
:19:14. > :19:16.understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box
:19:17. > :19:22.behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm
:19:23. > :19:26.sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a
:19:27. > :19:30.Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set
:19:31. > :19:35.out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a
:19:36. > :19:39.prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's
:19:40. > :19:43.manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is
:19:44. > :19:47.what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said
:19:48. > :19:51.they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the
:19:52. > :19:56.party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight
:19:57. > :20:01.this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all
:20:02. > :20:07.-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will
:20:08. > :20:12.fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know
:20:13. > :20:15.that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not
:20:16. > :20:20.subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be
:20:21. > :20:24.what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will
:20:25. > :20:30.always be cases where people have had different views on different
:20:31. > :20:36.parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the
:20:37. > :20:41.party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your
:20:42. > :20:45.manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing
:20:46. > :20:49.the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do
:20:50. > :20:54.the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a
:20:55. > :20:59.few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can
:21:00. > :21:05.I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying
:21:06. > :21:09.was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the
:21:10. > :21:13.party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It
:21:14. > :21:17.will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the
:21:18. > :21:21.important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip
:21:22. > :21:25.Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes
:21:26. > :21:31.had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do
:21:32. > :21:36.you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what
:21:37. > :21:40.he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the
:21:41. > :21:45.manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the
:21:46. > :21:48.Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of
:21:49. > :21:54.the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a
:21:55. > :21:59.lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national
:22:00. > :22:06.insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the
:22:07. > :22:10.manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes
:22:11. > :22:15.may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative
:22:16. > :22:21.Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,
:22:22. > :22:27.people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries
:22:28. > :22:29.in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative
:22:30. > :22:33.Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party
:22:34. > :22:39.which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.
:22:40. > :22:45.Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden
:22:46. > :22:50.as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level
:22:51. > :22:56.since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax
:22:57. > :22:59.burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more
:23:00. > :23:02.people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing
:23:03. > :23:07.economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you
:23:08. > :23:12.reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We
:23:13. > :23:17.have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start
:23:18. > :23:23.paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax
:23:24. > :23:28.rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax
:23:29. > :23:36.rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again
:23:37. > :23:37.between now and June Is France now about to make it
:23:38. > :23:42.a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies
:23:43. > :23:45.the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared
:23:46. > :23:47.in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean
:23:48. > :23:49.for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact
:23:50. > :24:09.on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting
:24:10. > :24:12.the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward
:24:13. > :24:18.to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De
:24:19. > :24:23.Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that
:24:24. > :24:27.no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the
:24:28. > :24:30.centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by
:24:31. > :24:37.the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected
:24:38. > :24:44.to anything and only started his own party
:24:45. > :24:46.a few months ago. And the far left in the form
:24:47. > :24:49.of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged
:24:50. > :24:53.in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the
:24:54. > :24:56.traditional governing parties is the centre-right's
:24:57. > :24:59.Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in
:25:00. > :25:02.the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid
:25:03. > :25:07.at generous public expense for a job I've just come across
:25:08. > :25:22.this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood
:25:23. > :25:25.of the French people. It's got the five main candidates
:25:26. > :25:28.for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,
:25:29. > :25:31.the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,
:25:32. > :25:34.and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,
:25:35. > :25:44.Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance
:25:45. > :25:48.of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates
:25:49. > :25:50.them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's
:25:51. > :25:56.going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that
:25:57. > :26:02.two of them may be President But the two of them may not find
:26:03. > :26:15.themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or
:26:16. > :26:28.woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing
:26:29. > :26:32.who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are
:26:33. > :26:39.the more you may be wrong. The country has largely
:26:40. > :26:44.stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,
:26:45. > :26:47.one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is
:26:48. > :26:51.the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come
:26:52. > :26:58.to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in
:26:59. > :27:05.particular the political elite. And an element of
:27:06. > :27:11.nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive
:27:12. > :27:15.in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in
:27:16. > :27:26.the French election. Identity and security has been
:27:27. > :27:30.as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries
:27:31. > :27:37.about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how
:27:38. > :27:42.to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of
:27:43. > :27:45.which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by
:27:46. > :27:56.the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before
:27:57. > :27:59.voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge
:28:00. > :28:10.victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon
:28:11. > :28:14.will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will
:28:15. > :28:18.not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the
:28:19. > :28:21.National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc
:28:22. > :28:27.Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French
:28:28. > :28:30.nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal
:28:31. > :28:33.discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace
:28:34. > :28:42.would represent an existential Brexit would simply become
:28:43. > :28:51.a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels
:28:52. > :28:55.and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from
:28:56. > :29:07.Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.
:29:08. > :29:11.Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist
:29:12. > :29:17.attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how
:29:18. > :29:21.that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this
:29:22. > :29:27.has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One
:29:28. > :29:31.policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd
:29:32. > :29:36.with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the
:29:37. > :29:43.election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a
:29:44. > :29:48.young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the
:29:49. > :29:55.terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was
:29:56. > :30:01.promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's
:30:02. > :30:07.one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But
:30:08. > :30:13.now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least
:30:14. > :30:20.at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might
:30:21. > :30:24.benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely
:30:25. > :30:28.anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she
:30:29. > :30:32.immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if
:30:33. > :30:36.she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in
:30:37. > :30:44.France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years
:30:45. > :30:48.ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan
:30:49. > :30:52.in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was
:30:53. > :30:56.asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream
:30:57. > :31:00.up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,
:31:01. > :31:04.that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened
:31:05. > :31:10.overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.
:31:11. > :31:15.Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the
:31:16. > :31:21.second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics
:31:22. > :31:24.will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange
:31:25. > :31:28.thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go
:31:29. > :31:33.anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger
:31:34. > :31:39.that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as
:31:40. > :31:43.for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people
:31:44. > :31:50.were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to
:31:51. > :31:55.change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will
:31:56. > :32:00.be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time
:32:01. > :32:02.tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your
:32:03. > :32:06.city. Now, the Green Party currently has
:32:07. > :32:09.one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June
:32:10. > :32:12.as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in
:32:13. > :32:14.the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign
:32:15. > :32:16.on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made
:32:17. > :32:18.a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young
:32:19. > :32:20.people they've been But one crucial way they've been
:32:21. > :32:25.betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous
:32:26. > :32:28.ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year
:32:29. > :32:33.on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does
:32:34. > :32:35.the environment need to be doing All the signs are there
:32:36. > :32:39.and it is young people who are going to be bearing
:32:40. > :32:42.the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important
:32:43. > :32:45.that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large
:32:46. > :32:48.but to young people in particular, I think climate change,
:32:49. > :32:50.the environment, looking after our precious resources,
:32:51. > :32:55.has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green
:32:56. > :33:09.MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.
:33:10. > :33:13.Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback
:33:14. > :33:17.cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would
:33:18. > :33:20.you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed
:33:21. > :33:23.manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so
:33:24. > :33:27.I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every
:33:28. > :33:33.party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last
:33:34. > :33:36.time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a
:33:37. > :33:41.position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would
:33:42. > :33:45.you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes
:33:46. > :33:50.for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount
:33:51. > :33:53.of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not
:33:54. > :33:59.entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000
:34:00. > :34:03.people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real
:34:04. > :34:06.focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on
:34:07. > :34:09.that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an
:34:10. > :34:12.enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from
:34:13. > :34:16.country to country and we need European corporation to make that
:34:17. > :34:22.successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of
:34:23. > :34:25.changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in
:34:26. > :34:30.taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the
:34:31. > :34:34.competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change
:34:35. > :34:40.the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.
:34:41. > :34:43.Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending
:34:44. > :34:47.programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.
:34:48. > :34:50.If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and
:34:51. > :34:54.also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10
:34:55. > :34:57.billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the
:34:58. > :35:01.upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a
:35:02. > :35:05.year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not
:35:06. > :35:09.vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on
:35:10. > :35:16.the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...
:35:17. > :35:20.People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above
:35:21. > :35:26.42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate
:35:27. > :35:30.changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion
:35:31. > :35:33.raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of
:35:34. > :35:38.40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would
:35:39. > :35:42.put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on
:35:43. > :35:46.lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,
:35:47. > :35:52.60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?
:35:53. > :35:57.It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you
:35:58. > :36:01.look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,
:36:02. > :36:04.longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also
:36:05. > :36:07.older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost
:36:08. > :36:11.anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The
:36:12. > :36:15.mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the
:36:16. > :36:20.Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of
:36:21. > :36:25.interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of
:36:26. > :36:30.progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,
:36:31. > :36:33.social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they
:36:34. > :36:38.are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has
:36:39. > :36:41.given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with
:36:42. > :36:44.backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small
:36:45. > :36:48.majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must
:36:49. > :36:50.come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using
:36:51. > :36:56.the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.
:36:57. > :36:59.Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the
:37:00. > :37:03.government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen
:37:04. > :37:06.otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the
:37:07. > :37:10.primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium
:37:11. > :37:14.government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that
:37:15. > :37:17.is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you
:37:18. > :37:21.accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical
:37:22. > :37:24.Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat
:37:25. > :37:27.to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an
:37:28. > :37:33.authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have
:37:34. > :37:36.dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we
:37:37. > :37:38.are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very
:37:39. > :37:41.hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the
:37:42. > :37:46.price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a
:37:47. > :37:49.price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as
:37:50. > :37:54.Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr
:37:55. > :37:57.Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the
:37:58. > :37:59.Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.
:38:00. > :38:01.It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:02. > :38:03.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales
:38:04. > :38:04.and Northern Ireland who leave us now.
:38:05. > :38:17.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:38:18. > :38:19.I'm Nina Warhurst, in Battleground North West,
:38:20. > :38:21.where there are more marginals than anywhere else.
:38:22. > :38:24.Visits from three leaders in four days.
:38:25. > :38:26.Whoever wins those seats will win the election.
:38:27. > :38:29.We've got so many marginals in this region that, you know,
:38:30. > :38:37.you won't be able to escape politicians for several weeks now.
:38:38. > :38:39.And if that doesn't excite you, perhaps this week's guests will.
:38:40. > :38:42.Debbie Abrahams is the Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth and
:38:43. > :38:44.Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, David Rutley the Conservative MP
:38:45. > :38:54.for Macclesfield, and John Pugh the Liberal Democrat for Southport.
:38:55. > :39:04.Who saw that coming? We had a nice Easter weekend and then choose the
:39:05. > :39:07.morning came. It wasn't expected on Monday morning but I think it was
:39:08. > :39:11.the right decision. I have spoken to people in Macclesfield over the last
:39:12. > :39:17.few days but I didn't expect the timing. I knew it wasn't going to go
:39:18. > :39:22.to 2020 but it is disappointing that the Prime Minister decided to be
:39:23. > :39:27.really politically opportunistic. She has failed to get the terms
:39:28. > :39:32.around Brexit negotiation and this is seen as a party's best chance. We
:39:33. > :39:41.will come shortly to whether it is opportunism. I can only assume there
:39:42. > :39:46.is an ulterior motive. Maybe it is the expenses scandal from the last
:39:47. > :39:51.general election, I think 30 Conservative MPs are under
:39:52. > :40:01.investigation. Or maybe very tough decisions about to be made on the
:40:02. > :40:04.NHS, and the best way to make those decisions is to call a general
:40:05. > :40:08.election, get a big majority and go from there.
:40:09. > :40:11.The Prime Minister, Theresa May, bobbed to Bolton on Wednesday,
:40:12. > :40:13.a town with one of our closest marginal seats, to
:40:14. > :40:17.There's no one definition of a marginal, but it can be
:40:18. > :40:19.considered a seat with a majority of less than 11%.
:40:20. > :40:25.That means a swing of 5.5% or less from the current MP to its nearest
:40:26. > :40:26.challenger would see it change hands.
:40:27. > :40:29.Here are the seats the Conservatives will be targeting.
:40:30. > :40:34.Chester, where that 0.2% difference translates to just 93 votes.
:40:35. > :40:36.Wirral West, where they were surprised to lose
:40:37. > :40:43.A bit further down there's Southport, John's constituency.
:40:44. > :40:45.Look towards the bottom, Ivan Lewis's seat Bury South
:40:46. > :40:54.They've both been Labour since they swung that way in 1997.
:40:55. > :40:57.Labour will of course want to hold on to those seats,
:40:58. > :41:00.but here are the areas they'll be hoping to gain.
:41:01. > :41:02.Bury North, that's David Nuttall's seat and has just 1% in it.
:41:03. > :41:05.Bolton West, which was a 2015 gain for the Conservatives.
:41:06. > :41:07.Almost all the rest swung to the Conservatives
:41:08. > :41:15.And we will be looking closely at the Lib Dem targets shortly.
:41:16. > :41:19.Why did the Prime Minister head to the North West the moment
:41:20. > :41:24.Well, it wasn't by chance, as Gill Dummigan explains.
:41:25. > :41:26.Smiles on stand-by and slogans at the ready, a carefully compiled
:41:27. > :41:29.crowd was every bit as enthusiastic as the PM would have
:41:30. > :41:36.Thank you for that great north-western welcome and it's great
:41:37. > :41:38.to be here in Bolton, fresh from the House of Commons,
:41:39. > :41:41.fresh from winning a vote in the House of Commons which has
:41:42. > :41:44.approved my decision to hold a general election
:41:45. > :41:53.As Theresa May was whisked back to Westminster,
:41:54. > :41:56.experts predicted many more high-profile visits.
:41:57. > :41:57.The north-west will decide the election.
:41:58. > :41:59.We've got more marginal seats here in the north-west
:42:00. > :42:03.than any other in England and all the parties can have some
:42:04. > :42:08.Remember that Labour captured some Conservative marginals in 2015
:42:09. > :42:12.Equally, the Conservatives took seats of Labour, like Bolton West.
:42:13. > :42:16.You won't be able to escape politicians for several weeks now.
:42:17. > :42:19.Marginals that include one of the closest in the country.
:42:20. > :42:22.The Conservatives would need to peel away just 47 votes from Labour
:42:23. > :42:29.It is hard at the minute but I have got faith that
:42:30. > :42:41.It's that 2% that might be able to catch me.
:42:42. > :42:43.And if the Conservatives here want to fight for that vote,
:42:44. > :42:47.the local MP says he is already one page ahead of them.
:42:48. > :42:50.I am in permanent campaign mode anyway.
:42:51. > :42:53.Over the weekend I was talking to constituents, knocking
:42:54. > :42:58.But in a shoot-out between the party leaders,
:42:59. > :43:01.who would they support back in Bolton?
:43:02. > :43:08.I'm going for Theresa May because, like she says, he can only lead
:43:09. > :43:15.a political demonstration but he can't lead his party.
:43:16. > :43:19.I definitely think he relates closely to, you know,
:43:20. > :43:26.I think she's a strong leader, not just because she's a woman,
:43:27. > :43:31.but she's strong, and I think she'll do country well.
:43:32. > :43:33.Labour, but then obviously it depends on issues
:43:34. > :43:40.Those are my main two priority things.
:43:41. > :43:43.All the parties have until the 8th of June to get voters
:43:44. > :44:02.2015, you won three, lost three. What can people go to breakthrough
:44:03. > :44:06.in the north-west this time? The north-west is important and we are
:44:07. > :44:09.fighting every single seat. I am pleased the Prime Minister came. All
:44:10. > :44:13.of the country is important for us. We will fight for every seat and
:44:14. > :44:21.every vote because we want to make sure we have the strongest
:44:22. > :44:25.leadership we have. She talks about leadership, Brexit, stability, but
:44:26. > :44:29.in places like Chester where they have recently set up a poverty
:44:30. > :44:35.commission in Wirral, they are easier targets, people are just
:44:36. > :44:40.about managing. Things are moving well in general terms across the
:44:41. > :44:47.north-west. We have a massive improvement in employment across the
:44:48. > :44:52.country. 2.8 million jobs created since 2010. Are you not concerned of
:44:53. > :44:57.those people in those marginals are struggling? We have to have jobs and
:44:58. > :44:59.that's why we have to have a strong economy and that's why we are
:45:00. > :45:10.pushing to get Theresa May re-elected with an increased
:45:11. > :45:19.majority. The Prime Minister has called this to get an increase
:45:20. > :45:26.mandate. Your plan is to stand down. The parties are fighting for a
:45:27. > :45:34.different kind of Brexit. There is enthusiasm for the general election
:45:35. > :45:41.Liberal Democrats. We had 10,000 new members since the election was
:45:42. > :45:48.called, 1.6 million in donations. We are not suggesting that we renege on
:45:49. > :45:56.their original decision that the public made but that there is proper
:45:57. > :46:04.scrutiny. Beyond Brexit, people will ask who is Tim Farron? Every Lib Dem
:46:05. > :46:08.leader in history has only got well known during the course of a general
:46:09. > :46:14.election. People will learn a lot about him and they will like what
:46:15. > :46:16.they learn. We will speak to you shortly, Debbie.
:46:17. > :46:19.Well, the Labour leader was also here yesterday.
:46:20. > :46:21."Jezza for PM" if you didn't catch that.
:46:22. > :46:23.Jeremy Corbyn started his day with a bit of phone bashing
:46:24. > :46:25.in Manchester before heading to Warrington and Crewe,
:46:26. > :46:28.two of those areas we've mentioned as marginal seats.
:46:29. > :46:31.But not all his party are as supportive as Debbie Abrahams.
:46:32. > :46:33.With apologies for the sound, here's what the MP for Barrow
:46:34. > :46:36.and Furness, John Woodcock, said on Facebook this week.
:46:37. > :46:42.I am intending to seek renomination from my local Labour
:46:43. > :46:44.and co-operative parties to be their official
:46:45. > :46:48.candidate but I will not countenance ever voting to make
:46:49. > :46:59.Jeremy Corbyn Britain's Prime Minister.
:47:00. > :47:04.He said he doesn't believe Jeremy can be the Prime Minister. He says
:47:05. > :47:10.he doesn't believe Jeremy Corbyn believes he can be Prime Minister.
:47:11. > :47:13.How do you win seats like those when people across the Labour Party are
:47:14. > :47:20.not bind the leader? The point you made when you were asking David just
:47:21. > :47:24.all about what this means and what seven years of austerity means to
:47:25. > :47:29.the country, is so important. That would be my response. Our economy is
:47:30. > :47:34.not working in the north-west. It is doing well in London and the South.
:47:35. > :47:39.How can you sort out their economy when you can't sort out your own
:47:40. > :47:49.party? There are a few MPs who haven't necessarily supported
:47:50. > :47:55.Jeremy. As few? It is a vocal few. He is a very principled and decent
:47:56. > :47:59.man. Have a look at the policy platform that we have which is so
:48:00. > :48:04.progress of which is about reaching out to all parts of the country and
:48:05. > :48:11.all people, particularly people on low and middle incomes who have been
:48:12. > :48:20.dealt a bad blow by this government. We have women and children living in
:48:21. > :48:29.poverty. One into -- on in two in my constituency. People will say that
:48:30. > :48:38.Labour MPs to not trust Jeremy Corbyn to lead the party. You're
:48:39. > :48:49.making a generalisation. We had a constructive PLP meeting.
:48:50. > :48:55.You're making a case but are you couldn't have a picture of Jeremy
:48:56. > :49:09.Corbyn in your literature? I am planning mine. It's our ton a simple
:49:10. > :49:15.question. How is it in the national interest to be calling an election
:49:16. > :49:20.at this time? To strengthen the government's hadn't in our
:49:21. > :49:27.negotiations. It will not make the blindest difference. I would agree
:49:28. > :49:35.that Jeremy Corbyn is a very decent man and normally the question is
:49:36. > :49:39.whether a good Leader of the Opposition become a good Prime
:49:40. > :49:40.Minister. Nobody is saying he is even a good Leader of the
:49:41. > :49:49.Opposition. I think he is not. Two years ago the Liberal Democrats
:49:50. > :49:52.lost four of their six Since then they've appointed one
:49:53. > :49:56.of our Cumbria MPs as leader, Tim Farron meeting excited
:49:57. > :49:58.party members here. This week he visited the Manchester
:49:59. > :50:00.seats of Withington, one of those they lost,
:50:01. > :50:03.and Gorton, as he got his party's So can they regain Withington
:50:04. > :50:06.as well as seats like The daffodils have all
:50:07. > :50:16.but disappeared on the green in Chorlton but could a yellow
:50:17. > :50:18.revival be on the way? If it is then the Lib Dems must win
:50:19. > :50:21.constituencies like this, Manchester Withington,
:50:22. > :50:23.for two key reasons. Firstly this is a seat they held
:50:24. > :50:25.until just two years ago and secondly this is largely
:50:26. > :50:34.pro-EU, pro-Remain territory. Uneven surfaces are often just
:50:35. > :50:36.as dangerous as potholes. No matter how uneven they may be,
:50:37. > :50:39.John Leech isn't wasting any time He was the MP for this
:50:40. > :50:43.seat from 2005 to 2015, The polls are not really a sure
:50:44. > :50:51.thing for you, are they? I don't pay too much attention
:50:52. > :50:54.to the polls but the polls Labour are going down,
:50:55. > :50:57.the Liberal Democrats are going up. That is all good news for us
:50:58. > :51:01.in Manchester Withington. His Labour opponent has
:51:02. > :51:04.been out and about, too. They're not helping
:51:05. > :51:07.the area at all, are they? Theresa May has called this election
:51:08. > :51:10.because she wants a big majority so she can carry on with more cuts
:51:11. > :51:13.to the NHS, schools Manchester faces a ?300 million
:51:14. > :51:17.per year cut in our budget because of the Lib Dem support
:51:18. > :51:24.for the Tory government. Ron's been cutting hair
:51:25. > :51:26.here for nearly half a century. What do his customers care
:51:27. > :51:30.about in this election? You think health, education will be
:51:31. > :51:34.more important than perhaps Europe? Yeah, I think our
:51:35. > :51:39.customers, health and... Europe is a thing
:51:40. > :51:44.but your home matters. My parents grew up with Labour
:51:45. > :51:48.but over the years I have seen the change with Labour,
:51:49. > :51:51.how Labour has gone, and the Conservatives were more
:51:52. > :51:53.appealing to what we wanted, the values that we
:51:54. > :51:56.liked at that time. I have never really
:51:57. > :51:58.looked into the policies This year I am not sure
:51:59. > :52:06.because of Jeremy Corbyn. Around here it is that
:52:07. > :52:10.Lib Dem/Labour battle, then. But not that far away,
:52:11. > :52:13.Tim Farron's team have Tory Two years ago it turned Tory,
:52:14. > :52:22.along with neighbouring Hazel Grove. The Lib Dems need these seats back
:52:23. > :52:25.but it could be tricky. Normally I vote Conservative
:52:26. > :52:35.and I probably will this time. Yeah, I would vote Ukip,
:52:36. > :52:42.to be honest, for this country. Most of the seats where
:52:43. > :52:45.the Liberal Democrats are in a good second place are actually facing
:52:46. > :52:46.Conservatives. We have a very good chance
:52:47. > :52:49.of winning back a whole raft of seats that were lost
:52:50. > :52:52.to the Tories but in seats where the Liberal Democrats
:52:53. > :52:54.are fighting Labour I think we have a very strong message,
:52:55. > :52:57.particularly in areas that voted They put the cat among the pigeons
:52:58. > :53:04.in 2010 but will relying on Remain-supporters be enough
:53:05. > :53:21.to make voters here pick You said you don't want to work
:53:22. > :53:27.through the nightmare chaos of the exit of the next Parliament? It is a
:53:28. > :53:31.very unattractive menu. Is this not when your party needs you most? I
:53:32. > :53:41.have personal reasons for sending down but I think if I came back I
:53:42. > :53:47.would be part of a larger corporate of Lib Dem MPs. People have seen a
:53:48. > :53:54.true Conservative government now and they know the difference between
:53:55. > :53:59.that and the coalition. Do you think you have been forgiven? I think
:54:00. > :54:02.people understand things like the pupil premium. The Lib Dems did a
:54:03. > :54:08.lot of good things. We are having a debate of the triple lock now.
:54:09. > :54:19.People have to remember that was introduced by a Lib Dem minister.
:54:20. > :54:22.When you look at places like Cheadle and Manchester Withington, these
:54:23. > :54:28.places voted to stay in the EU, Liberal Democrat party line is about
:54:29. > :54:32.another referendum. Ironically this election which is supposed to
:54:33. > :54:38.increase the mandate leaves you vulnerable in places like that.
:54:39. > :54:41.Speaking to colleagues in Cheadle and his Grove, they're not seeing a
:54:42. > :54:48.surge in Liberal Democrat support there. They would say that. When I
:54:49. > :54:56.have been out there is no major search in Liberal Democrats. Explain
:54:57. > :55:02.the additional members. I am genuinely not seeing a surge. These
:55:03. > :55:09.need much of an improvement. In his need much of an improvement. In his
:55:10. > :55:13.growth as well. The Lib Dems have a lot of ground to make up and any
:55:14. > :55:20.vote that goes for them anyway, they can't form a government. It will
:55:21. > :55:25.have to form a coalition of chaos. We were talking about the health and
:55:26. > :55:29.social care act of 2012. A devastating impact, part of the
:55:30. > :55:36.problems we're seeing now with the NHS and care crisis, they relate
:55:37. > :55:41.back to that bill and that was a Lib Dem... In terms of 3 billion spent
:55:42. > :55:48.in reorganisation is being backtracked. You would be spending
:55:49. > :55:53.the same. We would want to make sure there was integration between health
:55:54. > :55:59.and social care about that structural reorganisation. The NHS
:56:00. > :56:03.has had enough of that. In Manchester we are going to provide a
:56:04. > :56:12.way to achieve that. You delegated to earlier and less than the actual
:56:13. > :56:17.costs. That is duplicitous. How can we trust this government? You let
:56:18. > :56:24.the NHS town by billions of pounds he had in debt. ?2.45 billion, the
:56:25. > :56:32.highest level of debt the NHS compared to 300 million when we were
:56:33. > :56:39.in power. He ran out of money in 2009. The conservative solution is
:56:40. > :56:41.quite clear in the stability and information plans which were
:56:42. > :56:50.revealed last year and then heaven away. They involve eroding A in my
:56:51. > :56:55.constituency and others. Massive reconfiguration taking place after
:56:56. > :57:04.the general election. We have a lower level as a percent of GDP
:57:05. > :57:12.spent on NHS in 1997. The previous Labour government... We have seen a
:57:13. > :57:17.?10 billion investment in the NHS. Let's be practical. These are
:57:18. > :57:30.national issues. If we are talking about marginal seats where you want
:57:31. > :57:35.to get red ones on the green seats, calling people who earn ?70,000 of
:57:36. > :57:44.the rich, seven places Tory targets, they could swing that way. In terms
:57:45. > :57:51.of corporation tax, the government is promising to reduce that to 17%,
:57:52. > :58:00.it is already the lowest in the G-7. It shouldn't be about... There are
:58:01. > :58:06.Tory targets winning to Labour in 1997 under Gordon Brown and Tony
:58:07. > :58:16.Blair. Does he not need to be targeting the middle ground, Jeremy
:58:17. > :58:20.Corbyn? We need to make sure across low and middle income groups, we
:58:21. > :58:25.have an offer for them. It is low and middle income houses that have
:58:26. > :58:32.been affected. I will be making the case, as will all my other
:58:33. > :58:37.colleagues. Levels of wages are the loyalists since the recession. The
:58:38. > :58:42.former Shadow Chancellor has said that Labour's plans would lead to a
:58:43. > :58:47.doubling of national insurance and council tax and VAT. Not a promising
:58:48. > :58:55.start. We will have a fully costed plan. It is an double. We have one
:58:56. > :59:00.in seven pensioners living in Baba Thiam to your government. The
:59:01. > :59:07.highest level of end work poverty we have ever had. Nearly one million
:59:08. > :59:11.zero hour contracts. One in three of my constituents are less than the
:59:12. > :59:18.living wage. Why should people vote Lib Dem? We need an honest debate on
:59:19. > :59:24.taxation. What the discussion has revealed is that there is a gap in
:59:25. > :59:27.NHS finances. We have to have an honest discussion about how taxation
:59:28. > :59:34.will be raised to pay for it. We shouldn't treat people as fools. A
:59:35. > :59:35.sensible confrontation with the true facts.
:59:36. > :59:39.Let's remind ourselves of some of what's happened in the first few
:59:40. > :59:47.George Osborne is standing down after 16 years as MP for Tatton.
:59:48. > :59:49.The former Chancellor is about to start his new role as editor
:59:50. > :59:55.of the London Evening Standard but could be back.
:59:56. > :59:58.I might be leaving the House of Commons for now but I haven't
:59:59. > :00:01.given up on those values of openness, tolerance, diversity,
:00:02. > :00:05.enterprise which make this country so great.
:00:06. > :00:09.The Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson announced he'd
:00:10. > :00:14.The current MP, Steve Rotheram, is running for mayor
:00:15. > :00:17.Meanwhile, greater Manchester's mayoral candidates slugged it out
:00:18. > :00:21.in a debate for BBC North West Tonight.
:00:22. > :00:26.Labour's Andy Burnham then said he is standing down as MP for Leigh.
:00:27. > :00:28.Simon Danczuk said he expects to defend his Rochdale
:00:29. > :00:33.He was suspended by the party after exchanging lewd
:00:34. > :00:38.And Gorton's getting in line with the rest of the country.
:00:39. > :00:40.The by-election there following the death
:00:41. > :01:01.of Sir Gerald Kaufman has been put back to general election day.
:01:02. > :01:06.Though hear from candidates from other parties, including Ukip and
:01:07. > :01:07.the Green Party, over the next few weeks.
:01:08. > :01:09.And next week we'll have the candidates for mayor
:01:10. > :01:18.on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you.
:01:19. > :01:24.Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement
:01:25. > :01:29.of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing
:01:30. > :01:35.But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man
:01:36. > :01:37.who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign?
:01:38. > :01:45.Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a
:01:46. > :01:52.member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So
:01:53. > :01:55.you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still
:01:56. > :02:02.hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal
:02:03. > :02:07.problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to
:02:08. > :02:11.happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it
:02:12. > :02:16.is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in
:02:17. > :02:23.Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton?
:02:24. > :02:27.I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a
:02:28. > :02:33.constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise
:02:34. > :02:38.you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the
:02:39. > :02:42.candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece
:02:43. > :02:46.the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was
:02:47. > :02:52.but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will
:02:53. > :02:59.regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there.
:03:00. > :03:03.Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right
:03:04. > :03:08.reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas
:03:09. > :03:12.Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we
:03:13. > :03:15.will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on
:03:16. > :03:18.Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if
:03:19. > :03:25.they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think
:03:26. > :03:31.you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate.
:03:32. > :03:36.Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I
:03:37. > :03:43.wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why
:03:44. > :03:47.do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to
:03:48. > :03:49.blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules.
:03:50. > :03:55.You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum
:03:56. > :04:00.movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a
:04:01. > :04:03.Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm
:04:04. > :04:06.interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the
:04:07. > :04:10.country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive
:04:11. > :04:17.majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up
:04:18. > :04:23.candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The
:04:24. > :04:25.electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post
:04:26. > :04:36.effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4
:04:37. > :04:40.million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In
:04:41. > :04:43.that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and
:04:44. > :04:47.other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could
:04:48. > :04:53.help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes.
:04:54. > :04:56.They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they
:04:57. > :05:00.don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have
:05:01. > :05:05.seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going
:05:06. > :05:09.to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the
:05:10. > :05:13.Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is
:05:14. > :05:19.no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP
:05:20. > :05:23.with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten
:05:24. > :05:28.up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I
:05:29. > :05:33.think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform
:05:34. > :05:38.funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people
:05:39. > :05:41.can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they
:05:42. > :05:48.did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling
:05:49. > :05:55.Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip
:05:56. > :05:59.has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I
:06:00. > :06:04.have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be
:06:05. > :06:08.has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives
:06:09. > :06:11.but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain
:06:12. > :06:17.places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an
:06:18. > :06:21.example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been
:06:22. > :06:25.forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning
:06:26. > :06:29.in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see,
:06:30. > :06:34.the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of
:06:35. > :06:38.the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said
:06:39. > :06:46.he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view?
:06:47. > :06:51.-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a
:06:52. > :06:55.security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but
:06:56. > :06:58.I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone
:06:59. > :07:02.further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim
:07:03. > :07:06.immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of
:07:07. > :07:10.integration in certain communities has come about through mass
:07:11. > :07:14.open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in?
:07:15. > :07:19.What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on
:07:20. > :07:25.immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe.
:07:26. > :07:28.If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big
:07:29. > :07:31.teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could
:07:32. > :07:35.not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems
:07:36. > :07:40.in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they
:07:41. > :07:46.haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control
:07:47. > :07:49.of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first
:07:50. > :07:53.thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and
:07:54. > :07:57.white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning
:07:58. > :08:01.that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms
:08:02. > :08:07.but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a
:08:08. > :08:11.bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate
:08:12. > :08:16.Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The
:08:17. > :08:18.final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the
:08:19. > :08:21.Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine
:08:22. > :08:25.if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham
:08:26. > :08:29.and your community has been radically changed and you have a
:08:30. > :08:32.whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something
:08:33. > :08:37.has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming
:08:38. > :08:40.in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there.
:08:41. > :08:42.Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today
:08:43. > :08:45.and he was asked again about an issue that he's been
:08:46. > :08:47.asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality.
:08:48. > :08:57.when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin.
:08:58. > :08:59.Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads
:09:00. > :09:03.few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons,
:09:04. > :09:13.It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired
:09:14. > :09:17.Probably, but then why don't you just close it down?
:09:18. > :09:29.Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is
:09:30. > :09:33.leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps
:09:34. > :09:37.refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that
:09:38. > :09:44.he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring
:09:45. > :09:47.himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want
:09:48. > :09:52.him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted
:09:53. > :09:54.at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and
:09:55. > :09:59.I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even
:10:00. > :10:02.Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the
:10:03. > :10:06.Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not
:10:07. > :10:15.prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is
:10:16. > :10:18.your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston
:10:19. > :10:20.did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about
:10:21. > :10:23.the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought
:10:24. > :10:27.he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command
:10:28. > :10:31.immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think
:10:32. > :10:35.it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what
:10:36. > :10:39.police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear
:10:40. > :10:44.policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim
:10:45. > :10:49.Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical
:10:50. > :10:56.Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An
:10:57. > :11:00.LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes
:11:01. > :11:04.that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not
:11:05. > :11:08.made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is
:11:09. > :11:11.neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it
:11:12. > :11:16.clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of
:11:17. > :11:20.the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the
:11:21. > :11:25.Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will
:11:26. > :11:28.have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring
:11:29. > :11:33.back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight
:11:34. > :11:38.face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do
:11:39. > :11:44.you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you
:11:45. > :11:51.look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy
:11:52. > :11:55.policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze
:11:56. > :12:00.would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he
:12:01. > :12:06.will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think
:12:07. > :12:13.your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or
:12:14. > :12:19.we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali.
:12:20. > :12:23.The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian,
:12:24. > :12:28.there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What
:12:29. > :12:31.did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to
:12:32. > :12:36.say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated
:12:37. > :12:39.in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he
:12:40. > :12:42.doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I
:12:43. > :12:46.don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments
:12:47. > :12:49.in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know,
:12:50. > :12:58.it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would
:12:59. > :13:01.have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal
:13:02. > :13:03.Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies
:13:04. > :13:05.they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming
:13:06. > :13:08.Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer
:13:09. > :13:12.commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I
:13:13. > :13:15.think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to
:13:16. > :13:18.overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in
:13:19. > :13:22.spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right.
:13:23. > :13:27.I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will
:13:28. > :13:31.be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the
:13:32. > :13:34.specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for
:13:35. > :13:39.everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard
:13:40. > :13:42.facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her
:13:43. > :13:49.hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has
:13:50. > :13:57.stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal
:13:58. > :14:01.time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back
:14:02. > :14:05.at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two.
:14:06. > :14:34.Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.
:14:35. > :14:37.There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really,
:14:38. > :14:40.all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests,
:14:41. > :14:43.we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine
:14:44. > :14:49.'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see.
:14:50. > :14:52.'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD.
:14:53. > :15:02.Here we have the first hydrogen bomb that went into service with