:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:44.The local election results made grim reading for Labour.
:00:45. > :00:48.With just a month to go until the general election,
:00:49. > :00:52.will promising to rule out tax rises for all but the well off help
:00:53. > :00:57.The Conservatives have their own announcement on mental health,
:00:58. > :01:00.as they strain every sinew to insist they don't think they've got
:01:01. > :01:07.But is there still really all to play for?
:01:08. > :01:11.And tonight we will find out who is the next
:01:12. > :01:14.President of France - Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen -
:01:15. > :01:18.after an unpredictable campaign that ended with a hack attack
:01:19. > :01:20.And in the North West: Cuddles from Corbyn for one
:01:21. > :01:23.of Labour's two mayors, but was the leader to blame for this
:01:24. > :01:31.potential impact in marginals next month. If Ukip support continues to
:01:32. > :01:38.evaporate... And joining me for all of that,
:01:39. > :01:41.three journalists ready to analyse the week's politics
:01:42. > :01:45.with all the forensic focus of Diane Abbott
:01:46. > :01:48.preparing for an interview, and all the relaxed,
:01:49. > :01:50.slogan-free banter of Theresa May It's Janan Ganesh, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:51. > :01:56.and Steve Richards. So, the Conservatives are promising,
:01:57. > :02:03.if re-elected, to change mental health laws in England and Wales
:02:04. > :02:06.to tackle discrimination, and they're promising 10,000 more
:02:07. > :02:12.staff working in NHS mental health treatment in England by 2020 -
:02:13. > :02:14.although how that's to be Here's Health Secretary
:02:15. > :02:17.Jeremy Hunt speaking There is a lot of new
:02:18. > :02:25.money going into it. In January, we said we were going
:02:26. > :02:28.to put an extra ?1 billion Does this come from other parts
:02:29. > :02:32.of the NHS, or is it No, it is new money
:02:33. > :02:35.going into the NHS It's not just of course money,
:02:36. > :02:42.it's having the people who deliver these jobs,
:02:43. > :02:44.which is why we need Well, we're joined now from Norwich
:02:45. > :02:49.by the Liberal Democrat health This weekend, they've launched
:02:50. > :02:52.their own health announcement, promising a 1% rise on every income
:02:53. > :03:04.tax band to fund the NHS. Do you welcome the Conservatives
:03:05. > :03:09.putting mental health onto the campaign agenda in the way that they
:03:10. > :03:14.have? I welcome it being on the campaign agenda but I do fear that
:03:15. > :03:19.the announcement is built on thin air. You raised the issue at the
:03:20. > :03:22.start about the 10,000 extra staff, and questions surrounding how it
:03:23. > :03:27.would be paid for. There is no additional money on what they have
:03:28. > :03:34.already announced for the NHS. We know it falls massively short on the
:03:35. > :03:38.expectation of the funding gap which, by 2020, is likely to be
:03:39. > :03:43.about 30 billion. That is not disputed now. Anyone outside of the
:03:44. > :03:46.government, wherever you are on the political spectrum, knows the money
:03:47. > :03:56.going in is simply not enough. So, rather like the claim that they
:03:57. > :04:00.would add 5000 GPs to the workforce by 2020, that is not on target.
:04:01. > :04:06.Latest figures show a fall in the number of GPs. They make these
:04:07. > :04:09.claims, but I'm afraid they are without substance, unless they are
:04:10. > :04:15.prepared to put money behind it. Your party's solution to the money
:04:16. > :04:26.problem is to put a 1% percentage point on all of the bands of income
:04:27. > :04:33.tax to raise more money 20-45. Is that unfair? Most pensioners who
:04:34. > :04:37.consume 40% of NHS spending, but over 65s only pay about 20% of
:04:38. > :04:42.income tax. Are you penalising the younger generations for the health
:04:43. > :04:46.care of an older generation? It is the first step in what we are
:04:47. > :04:52.describing as a 5-point recovery plan for the NHS and care system.
:04:53. > :04:58.So, for what is available to us now, it seems to be the fairest way of
:04:59. > :05:01.bringing in extra resources, income tax is progressive, and is based on
:05:02. > :05:06.your ability to pay for your average British worker. It would be ?3 per
:05:07. > :05:11.week which is the cost of less than two cups of coffee per week. In the
:05:12. > :05:16.longer run, we say that by the end of the next Parliament, we would be
:05:17. > :05:23.able to introduce a dedicated NHS and care tax. Based, probably,
:05:24. > :05:28.around a reformed national insurance system, so it becomes a dedicated
:05:29. > :05:32.NHS and care tax. Interestingly, the former permanent secretary of the
:05:33. > :05:37.Treasury, Nick MacPherson, said clearly that this idea merits
:05:38. > :05:43.further consideration which is the first time anyone for the Treasury
:05:44. > :05:47.has bought into the idea of this. Let me ask you this. You say it is a
:05:48. > :05:52.small amount of tax that people on average incomes will have to pay
:05:53. > :05:57.extra. We are talking about people who have seen no real increases to
:05:58. > :06:02.their income since 2007. They have been struggling to stand still in
:06:03. > :06:06.terms of their own pay, but you are going to add to their tax, and as I
:06:07. > :06:11.said earlier, most of the health care money will then go to
:06:12. > :06:16.pensioners whose incomes have risen by 15%. I'm interested in the
:06:17. > :06:22.fairness of this redistribution? Bearing in mind first of all,
:06:23. > :06:28.Andrew, that the raising of the tax threshold that the Liberal Democrats
:06:29. > :06:33.pushed through in the coalition increased the effective pay in your
:06:34. > :06:38.pocket for basic rate taxpayers by about ?1000. We are talking about a
:06:39. > :06:41.tiny fraction of that. I suppose that you do have to ask, all of us
:06:42. > :06:46.in this country need to ask ourselves this question... Are we
:06:47. > :06:52.prepared to pay, in terms of the average worker, about ?3 extra per
:06:53. > :06:57.week to give us a guarantee that when our loved ones need that care,
:06:58. > :07:02.in their hour of need, perhaps suspected cancer, that care will be
:07:03. > :07:07.available for them? I have heard two cases recently brought my attention.
:07:08. > :07:11.An elderly couple, the wife has a very bad hip. They could not allow
:07:12. > :07:16.the weight to continue. She was told that she would need to wait 26
:07:17. > :07:19.weeks, she was in acute pain. They then deduct paying ?20,000 for
:07:20. > :07:24.private treatment to circumvent waiting time. They hated doing it,
:07:25. > :07:30.because they did not want to jump the queue. But that is what is
:07:31. > :07:33.increasingly happening. Sorry to interrupt, Norman Lamb comedy make
:07:34. > :07:39.very good points but we are short on time today. One final question, it
:07:40. > :07:44.looks like you might have the chance to do any of this, I'm told the best
:07:45. > :07:49.you can hope to do internally is to double the number of seats you have,
:07:50. > :07:54.which would only take you to 18. Do you think that promising to raise
:07:55. > :07:59.people's income tax, even those on average earnings, is a vote winner?
:08:00. > :08:02.I think the people in this country are crying out for politicians to be
:08:03. > :08:09.straight and tenet as it is. At the moment we heading towards a
:08:10. > :08:14.Conservative landslide... -- tell it as it is. But do we want a 1-party
:08:15. > :08:19.state? We are electing a government not only to deal with the crucial
:08:20. > :08:23.Brexit negotiations, but oversee the stewardship of the NHS and funding
:08:24. > :08:26.of our schools, all of these critical issues. We need an
:08:27. > :08:31.effective opposition and with the Labour Party having taken itself off
:08:32. > :08:34.stage, the Liberal Democrats need to provide an effective opposition.
:08:35. > :08:38.Norman Lamb, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you.
:08:39. > :08:42.Labour and Tories are anxious to stress the general election
:08:43. > :08:43.result is not a foregone conclusion, whatever the polls say.
:08:44. > :08:48.Order you just heard Norman Lamb say there that he thought the
:08:49. > :08:51.Conservatives were heading for a landslide...
:08:52. > :08:53.But did Thursday's dramatic set of local election results
:08:54. > :08:57.in England, Scotland and Wales give us a better idea of how the country
:08:58. > :09:00.Here's Emma Vardy with a behind-the-scenes look at how
:09:01. > :09:04.Good morning, it's seven o'clock on Friday, May 5th...
:09:05. > :09:09.The dawn of another results day. Anticipation hung in the air.
:09:10. > :09:14.Early results from the local elections in England suggest
:09:15. > :09:16.there's been a substantial swing from Labour to the Conservatives.
:09:17. > :09:20.While the pros did their thing, I needed breakfast.
:09:21. > :09:23.Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to pinch a sausage.
:09:24. > :09:25.The overnight counts had delivered successes for the Tories.
:09:26. > :09:26.But with most councils only getting started,
:09:27. > :09:32.there was plenty of action still to come.
:09:33. > :09:34.It's not quite the night of Labour's nightmares.
:09:35. > :09:36.There's enough mixed news in Wales, for example -
:09:37. > :09:40.looks like they're about to hold Cardiff - that they'll try and put
:09:41. > :09:46.But in really simple terms, four weeks from a general election,
:09:47. > :09:49.the Tories are going forward and Labour are going backwards.
:09:50. > :09:54.How does it compare being in here to doing the telly?
:09:55. > :10:00.Huw, how do you prepare yourself for a long day of results, then?
:10:01. > :10:06.We're not even on air yet, as you can see, and already
:10:07. > :10:09.in Tory HQ this morning, there's a kind of, "Oh,
:10:10. > :10:12.I'm scared this will make people think the election's just
:10:13. > :10:15.I think leave it like that - perfect.
:10:16. > :10:18.I want the Laura look. This is really good, isn't it?
:10:19. > :10:22.Usually, we're in here for the Daily Politics.
:10:23. > :10:27.But it's been transformed for the Election Results programme.
:10:28. > :10:39.But hours went by without Ukip winning a single seat.
:10:40. > :10:45.The joke going around Lincolnshire County Council today
:10:46. > :10:48.from the Conservatives is that the Tories have eaten
:10:49. > :10:51.We will rebrand and come back strong.
:10:52. > :10:57.Morale, I think, is inevitably going to take a bit of a tumble.
:10:58. > :11:00.Particularly if Theresa May starts backsliding on Brexit.
:11:01. > :11:02.And then I think we will be totally reinvigorated.
:11:03. > :11:05.There are a lot of good people in Ukip and I wouldn't
:11:06. > :11:08.want to say anything unkind, but we all know it's over.
:11:09. > :11:12.Ukip press officer. Difficult job.
:11:13. > :11:16.Ukip weren't the only ones putting a brave face on it.
:11:17. > :11:19.Labour were experiencing their own disaster day too,
:11:20. > :11:23.losing hundreds of seats and seven councils.
:11:24. > :11:27.If the result is what these results appear to indicate,
:11:28. > :11:32.Can we have a quick word for the Sunday Politics?
:11:33. > :11:40.A quick question for Sunday Politics - how are you feeling?
:11:41. > :11:45.Downhearted or fired up for June? Fired up, absolutely fired up.
:11:46. > :11:47.He's fired up. We're going to go out there...
:11:48. > :11:49.We cannot go on with another five years of this.
:11:50. > :11:52.How's it been for you today? Tiring.
:11:53. > :11:55.It always is, but I love elections, I really enjoy them.
:11:56. > :11:59.Yes, you know, obviously we're disappointed at some of the results,
:12:00. > :12:02.it's been a mixed bag, but some opinion polls
:12:03. > :12:07.and commentators predicted we'd be wiped out - we haven't.
:12:08. > :12:09.As for the Lib Dems, not the resurgence they hoped for,
:12:10. > :12:17.After a dead heat in Northumberland, the control of a whole council came
:12:18. > :12:26.The section of England in which we had elections yesterday
:12:27. > :12:30.was the section of England that was most likely to vote Leave.
:12:31. > :12:33.When you go to sleep at night, do you just have election results
:12:34. > :12:39.The answer is if that's still happening, I don't get to sleep.
:12:40. > :12:41.There we go. Maybe practice some yoga...
:12:42. > :12:46.Thank you very much but I have one here.
:12:47. > :12:49.With the introduction of six regional mayors,
:12:50. > :12:52.Labour's Andy Burnham became Mr Manchester.
:12:53. > :12:55.But by the time Corbyn came to celebrate, the new mayor
:12:56. > :13:01.We want you to stay for a second because I've got some
:13:02. > :13:04.I used to present news, as you probably know.
:13:05. > :13:06.I used to present BBC Breakfast in the morning.
:13:07. > :13:09.The SNP had notable successes, ending 40 years of Labour
:13:10. > :13:15.What did you prefer - presenting or politics?
:13:16. > :13:22.And it certainly had been a hard day at the office for some.
:13:23. > :13:26.Ukip's foothold in local government was all but wiped out,
:13:27. > :13:28.leaving the Conservatives with their best local
:13:29. > :13:33.So another election results day draws to a close.
:13:34. > :13:36.But don't worry, we'll be doing it all again in five weeks' time.
:13:37. > :13:39.For now, though, that's your lot. Off you go.
:13:40. > :13:51.Now let's look at some of Thursday's results in a little more detail,
:13:52. > :13:53.and what they might mean for the wider fortunes
:13:54. > :14:05.In England, there were elections for 34 councils.
:14:06. > :14:07.The Conservatives took control of ten of them,
:14:08. > :14:09.gaining over 300 seats, while Labour sustained
:14:10. > :14:14.While the Lib Dems lost 28 seats, Ukip came close to extinction,
:14:15. > :14:20.and can now boast of only one councillor in the whole of England.
:14:21. > :14:22.In Scotland, the big story was Labour losing
:14:23. > :14:25.a third of their seats, and control of three councils -
:14:26. > :14:27.while the Tories more than doubled their number of councillors.
:14:28. > :14:31.In Wales, both the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru made gains,
:14:32. > :14:37.There was some encouraging news for Jeremy Corbyn's party
:14:38. > :14:39.after Liverpool and Manchester both elected Labour mayors,
:14:40. > :14:46.although the Tories narrowly won the West Midlands mayoral race.
:14:47. > :14:49.We're joined now by who else but elections expert John Curtice.
:14:50. > :14:53.You saw him in Emma's film, he's now back in Glasgow.
:14:54. > :15:06.In broad terms, what do these local election results tell us about the
:15:07. > :15:11.general election result? First we have to remember what Theresa May
:15:12. > :15:14.wants to achieve in the general election is a landslide, and winning
:15:15. > :15:18.a landslide means you have to win big in terms of votes. The local
:15:19. > :15:22.election results certainly suggest Theresa May is well on course to win
:15:23. > :15:27.the general election, at least with four weeks to go, and of course
:15:28. > :15:30.people could change their minds. We all agree the Conservatives were
:15:31. > :15:35.double-digit figures ahead of Labour in these elections. However, whereas
:15:36. > :15:42.the opinion polls on average at the moment suggest there is a 17 point
:15:43. > :15:44.Conservative lead, and that definitely would deliver a
:15:45. > :15:47.landslide, it seems the local election figures, at least in
:15:48. > :15:51.England, are pointing to something close to an 11 point Conservative
:15:52. > :15:57.lead. That increase would not necessarily deliver a landslide that
:15:58. > :16:01.she wants. The truth is, the next four weeks are probably not about
:16:02. > :16:05.who wins this election unless something dramatic changes, but
:16:06. > :16:08.there is still a battle as to whether or not Theresa May achieves
:16:09. > :16:13.her objective of winning a landslide. She has to win big. The
:16:14. > :16:17.local elections as she is not sure to be there, and therefore she is
:16:18. > :16:21.going to have to campaign hard. Equally, while Labour did have most
:16:22. > :16:26.prospect of winning, they still at least at the goal of trying to keep
:16:27. > :16:30.the conservative majority relatively low, and therefore the Parliamentary
:16:31. > :16:34.Labour Party are alive and kicking. Interesting that the local election
:16:35. > :16:38.results don't produce a landslide if replicated on June 8th, but when I
:16:39. > :16:44.looked at when local elections had taken place a month before the
:16:45. > :16:49.general election, it was in 1983 and 1987. The Tories did well in both
:16:50. > :16:52.local elections in these years, but come the general election, they
:16:53. > :16:57.added five points to their share of the vote. No reason it should happen
:16:58. > :17:01.again, but if it did, that would take them into landslide territory.
:17:02. > :17:05.Absolutely right, if they do five points better than the local
:17:06. > :17:11.elections, they are in landslide territory. We have to remember, in
:17:12. > :17:16.1983, the Labour Party ran an inept campaign and their support ballet.
:17:17. > :17:22.In 1987, David Owen and David Steele could not keep to the same lines. --
:17:23. > :17:25.their support fell away. That underlines how well the opposition
:17:26. > :17:29.campaign in the next four weeks does potentially matter in terms of
:17:30. > :17:33.Theresa May's ability to achieve their objective. It is worth
:17:34. > :17:38.noticing in the opinion polls, two things have happened, first, Ukip
:17:39. > :17:41.voters, a significant slice going to the Conservatives, which helped to
:17:42. > :17:44.increase the Conservative leader in the bowels. But in the last week,
:17:45. > :17:50.the Labour vote seems to have recovered. -- in the polls. So the
:17:51. > :17:56.party is not that far short of what Ed Miliband got in 2015, so the
:17:57. > :18:00.Conservative leader is back down to 16 or 17, as we started. So we
:18:01. > :18:05.should not necessarily presume Labour are going to go backwards in
:18:06. > :18:11.the way they did in 1983. I want to finish by asking if there are deeper
:18:12. > :18:13.forces at work? Whether the referendum in this country is
:18:14. > :18:17.producing a realignment in British politics. The Scottish referendum
:18:18. > :18:22.has produced a kind of realignment in Scotland. And in a different way,
:18:23. > :18:30.the Brexit referendum has produced a realignment in England and Wales. Do
:18:31. > :18:33.you agree? You are quite right. Referendums are potentially
:18:34. > :18:36.disruptive in Scotland, they helped to ensure the constitutional
:18:37. > :18:41.question became the central issue, and the 45% who voted yes our been
:18:42. > :18:45.faithful to the SNP since. Although the SNP put in a relatively
:18:46. > :18:50.disappointing performance in Scotland on Thursday. Equally, south
:18:51. > :18:53.of the border, on the leave side, in the past 12 months and particularly
:18:54. > :18:58.the last few weeks, the Conservatives have corralled the
:18:59. > :19:03.leave vote, about two thirds of those who voted leave now say they
:19:04. > :19:07.will vote Conservative. Last summer, the figure was only 50%. On the
:19:08. > :19:17.remain side, the vote is still fragmented. The reason why Theresa
:19:18. > :19:21.May is in the strong position she is is not simply because the leave vote
:19:22. > :19:29.has been realigned, but the remain vote has not. Thank you for joining
:19:30. > :19:33.us. You can go through polls and wonder who is up and down, but I
:19:34. > :19:38.wonder whether the Scottish and Brexit referendums have produced
:19:39. > :19:45.fundamental changes. In Scotland, the real division now is between the
:19:46. > :19:49.centre-left Nationalist party and the centre-right Unionist party.
:19:50. > :19:54.That has had the consequence of squeezing out Labour in the
:19:55. > :19:59.argument, never mind the Greens and the Lib Dems. In London, England,
:20:00. > :20:05.Wales, the Brexit referendum seems to have produced a realignment of
:20:06. > :20:14.the right to the Tories' advantage, and some trouble for the Labour blue
:20:15. > :20:20.vote -- blue-collar vote. It works for the pro Brexit end of the
:20:21. > :20:24.spectrum but not the other half. In the last century, we had people like
:20:25. > :20:27.Roy Jenkins dreaming of and writing about the realignment of British
:20:28. > :20:31.politics as though it could be consciously engineered, and in fact
:20:32. > :20:36.what made it happen was just the calling of a referendum. It's not
:20:37. > :20:39.something you can put about as a politician, it flows from below,
:20:40. > :20:45.when the public begin to think of politics in terms of single issues,
:20:46. > :20:49.dominant issues, such as leaving the European Union. Rather than a broad
:20:50. > :20:54.spectrum designed by a political class. I wonder whether now Remain
:20:55. > :20:58.have it in them to coalesce behind a single party. It doesn't look like
:20:59. > :21:01.they can do it behind Labour. The Liberal Democrats are frankly too
:21:02. > :21:06.small in Parliament to constitute that kind of force. The closest
:21:07. > :21:11.thing to a powerful Remain party is the SNP which by definition has
:21:12. > :21:17.limited appeal south of the border. It is hard. The realignment. We
:21:18. > :21:21.don't know if it is permanent or how dramatic it will be, but there is
:21:22. > :21:25.some kind of realignment going on. At the moment, it seems to be a
:21:26. > :21:30.realignment that by and large is to the benefit of the Conservatives.
:21:31. > :21:33.Without a doubt, and that can be directly attributed to the
:21:34. > :21:36.disappearance of Ukip from the political landscape. I have been
:21:37. > :21:41.saying since the referendum that I thought Ukip was finished. They
:21:42. > :21:45.still seem to be staggering on under the illusion... Some people may have
:21:46. > :21:49.picked up on Nigel Farage this morning saying that Ukip still had a
:21:50. > :21:53.strong role to play until Brexit actually happens. But I think it's
:21:54. > :21:57.very, very hard to convince the voters of that, because they feel
:21:58. > :22:00.that, with the result of the referendum, that was Ukip's job
:22:01. > :22:05.done. And those votes are not going to delay the party -- to the Labour
:22:06. > :22:11.Party because of the flaws with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, they are
:22:12. > :22:15.shifting to the Tories. I agree. The key issue was the referendum. It has
:22:16. > :22:20.produced a fundamental change that few predicted at the time it was
:22:21. > :22:24.called. Most fundamental of all, it has brought about a unity in the
:22:25. > :22:27.Conservative Party. With some exceptions, but they are now off
:22:28. > :22:34.editing the Evening Standard and other things! This is now a party
:22:35. > :22:39.united around Brexit. Since 1992, the Tories have been split over
:22:40. > :22:42.Europe, at times fatally so. The referendum, in ways that David
:22:43. > :22:47.Cameron did not anticipate, has brought about a united front for
:22:48. > :22:51.this election. In a way, this is a sequel to the referendum, because
:22:52. > :22:54.it's about Brexit but we still don't know what form Brexit is going to
:22:55. > :23:01.take. By calling it early, Theresa May has in effect got another go at
:23:02. > :23:04.a kind of Brexit referendum without knowing what Brexit is, with a
:23:05. > :23:07.united Tory party behind her. We shall see if it is a blip or a
:23:08. > :23:10.long-term trend in British politics. Now let's turn to Labour's big
:23:11. > :23:12.campaign announcement today, and that was the promise of no
:23:13. > :23:15.income tax rise for those earning less than ?80,000 -
:23:16. > :23:18.which of course means those earning more than that could
:23:19. > :23:19.face an increase. Here's Shadow Chancellor John
:23:20. > :23:29.McDonell on the BBC earlier. What we are saying today, anyone
:23:30. > :23:34.earning below ?80,000, we will guarantee you will not have an
:23:35. > :23:37.increase in income tax, VAT or national insurance contributions.
:23:38. > :23:42.For those above 80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more
:23:43. > :23:46.to fund our public services. A modest bit. You will see it will be
:23:47. > :23:53.a modest increase. Talking about modest increases, so we can have a
:23:54. > :23:55.society which we believe everyone shares the benefits of.
:23:56. > :24:00.We're joined now by Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon, in Leeds.
:24:01. > :24:07.Mr McDonnell stressed that for those earning over 80,000, they would be
:24:08. > :24:11.paying more but it would be modest. He used the word modest 45 times.
:24:12. > :24:18.But there is only 1.2 million of them. -- 4-5 times. So that would
:24:19. > :24:25.not raise much money. This is about the key part of this tax policy for
:24:26. > :24:28.the many, not the few. We are saying that low earners and middle earners
:24:29. > :24:32.won't be paying more tax under a Labour government, which is not a
:24:33. > :24:36.policy the Conservatives have committed to yet. As John McDonnell
:24:37. > :24:43.also said in his interview earlier, if there is a tax rise on the top 5%
:24:44. > :24:48.of earners, earning over ?80,000, it would be a modest rise. I am trying
:24:49. > :24:55.to work out what that would mean in terms of money. If it is too modest,
:24:56. > :24:58.you don't raise much. What will happen is the Labour Party's
:24:59. > :25:03.manifesto, published in the next couple of weeks, wilfully set out
:25:04. > :25:13.and cost it. I can't make an announcement now. -- will fully set
:25:14. > :25:16.out and cost it. Moving on to the local elections, Mr Corbyn says he
:25:17. > :25:21.is closing the gap with the Tories. What evidence is there? John Curtis
:25:22. > :25:27.just said there was an 11% gap in the results, Labour 11% behind. The
:25:28. > :25:32.polls before that suggested Labour were anything up to 20% behind. Was
:25:33. > :25:38.it a great day for Labour? Certainly not. Is there a lot to do between
:25:39. > :25:43.now and June? Sure, but we are relishing every moment of that.
:25:44. > :25:47.Comparing equivalent elections in 2013, the Tories increased their
:25:48. > :25:57.share of the vote by 13%. You lost 2%. That's a net of 15%. In what way
:25:58. > :26:04.is that closing the gap? We have gone down to 11 points behind. Am I
:26:05. > :26:08.satisfied? Certainly not. Is Labour satisfied? Certainly not. A week is
:26:09. > :26:13.a long time in politics, 4-5 weeks is even longer. The local elections
:26:14. > :26:17.are over, the general election campaign is starting, and we want to
:26:18. > :26:22.put out there the policies that will improve the lives of low and middle
:26:23. > :26:27.income earners. And also many people looking to be well off as well. You
:26:28. > :26:33.lost 133 seats in Scotland. Are you closing the gap in Scotland? The
:26:34. > :26:37.journey back for Labour in Scotland, I always thought, wouldn't be an
:26:38. > :26:41.easy one. Since the council election results and Scotland that we are
:26:42. > :26:45.comparing this to, there has been an independence referendum and the
:26:46. > :26:49.terrible results for Labour in the 2015 general election. So it is a
:26:50. > :26:53.challenge, but one hundreds of thousands of Labour members are
:26:54. > :26:56.determined to meet. That is why we're talking about bread and butter
:26:57. > :27:03.policies to make people's lives better. These local elections took
:27:04. > :27:10.place midtown. Normally mid-term was the worst time for a government. --
:27:11. > :27:15.took place midterm. And the best for an opposition. That is a feature of
:27:16. > :27:20.British politics. So why did you lose 382 councillors in a midterm
:27:21. > :27:25.election? As Andy Burnham said when he gave his acceptance speech after
:27:26. > :27:31.his terrific first ballot result win in Manchester, it was an evening of
:27:32. > :27:35.mixed results for Labour. Generally bad, wasn't it? Why did you lose all
:27:36. > :27:40.of these councillors midterm? It is not a welcome result for Labour, I
:27:41. > :27:45.am not going to be deluded. But what I and the Labour Party are focused
:27:46. > :27:49.on is the next four weeks. And how we are going to put across policies
:27:50. > :27:55.like free school meals for primary school children, ?10 an hour minimum
:27:56. > :28:00.wage, the pledge not to increase tax for low and middle earners, 95% of
:28:01. > :28:04.earners in this country. And saving the NHS from privatisation and
:28:05. > :28:08.funding it properly. These are just some of the policies, including by
:28:09. > :28:12.the way a boost in carers' allowance, that will make the lives
:28:13. > :28:19.of people in Britain better off. Labour are for the many, not for the
:28:20. > :28:23.few. But people like from political parties aspiring to government is to
:28:24. > :28:27.be united and to be singing from the same song sheet among the leaders.
:28:28. > :28:31.You mentioned Andy Burnham. Why did he not join Mr Corbyn when Jeremy
:28:32. > :28:37.Corbyn went to the rally in Manchester on Friday to celebrate
:28:38. > :28:41.his victory? First of all, Andy Burnham did a radio interview
:28:42. > :28:44.straight after his great victory in which he said Jeremy Corbyn helped
:28:45. > :28:51.him to win votes in that election. Why didn't he turn up? As to the
:28:52. > :28:57.reason Andy Burnham wasn't there at the meeting Jeremy was doing in
:28:58. > :29:00.Manchester, it was because, I understand, Andy was booked into
:29:01. > :29:04.celebrate his victory with his family that night. I don't begrudge
:29:05. > :29:08.him that and hopefully you don't. The leader has made the effort to
:29:09. > :29:11.travel to Manchester to celebrate one of the few victories you enjoyed
:29:12. > :29:17.on Thursday, surely you would join the leader and celebrate together?
:29:18. > :29:21.Well, I don't regard, and I am sure you don't, Andy Burnham a nice time
:29:22. > :29:28.with his family... -- I don't begrudge. He made it clear Jeremy
:29:29. > :29:35.Corbyn assisted him. I can see you are not convinced yourself. I am
:29:36. > :29:40.convinced. The outgoing Labour leader in Derbyshire lost his seat
:29:41. > :29:45.on Thursday, you lost Derbyshire, which was a surprise in itself... He
:29:46. > :29:50.said that genuine party supporters said they were not voting Labour
:29:51. > :29:56.while you have Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Are you hearing that on the
:29:57. > :30:00.doorstep too? I have been knocking on hundreds of doors this week in my
:30:01. > :30:04.constituency and elsewhere. And of course, you never get every single
:30:05. > :30:10.voter thinking the leader of any political party is the greatest
:30:11. > :30:14.thing since sliced bread. But it's only on a minority of doorsteps that
:30:15. > :30:19.people are criticising the Labour leader. Most people aren't even
:30:20. > :30:24.talking about these questions. Most people are talking about Jeremy
:30:25. > :30:30.Corbyn's policies, free primary school meals, ?10 an hour minimum
:30:31. > :30:33.wage. Also policies such as paternity pay, maternity pay and
:30:34. > :30:37.sickness pay for the self-employed, that have been hard-pressed under
:30:38. > :30:40.this government. So I don't recognise that pitch of despondency,
:30:41. > :30:46.but I understand that in different areas, in local elections,
:30:47. > :30:50.perspectives are different. That was Derbyshire. The outgoing Labour
:30:51. > :30:53.leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said there was concern on
:30:54. > :30:58.the doorstep about whether Jeremy Corbyn was the right person to lead
:30:59. > :31:03.the Labour Party, and even Rotherham, loyal to Mr Corbyn, won
:31:04. > :31:09.the mail contest in Liverpool, he said that the Labour leader was more
:31:10. > :31:13.might on the doorstep. -- the mayor contest. Does that explain some of
:31:14. > :31:17.the performance on Thursday? I am confident that in the next four
:31:18. > :31:22.weeks, when we get into coverage on television, that people will see
:31:23. > :31:26.further the kind of open leadership Jeremy provides. In contrast to
:31:27. > :31:30.Theresa May's refusal to meet ordinary people. She came to my
:31:31. > :31:34.constituency and I don't think that a single person who lives here. And
:31:35. > :31:38.also she is ducking the chance to debate with Jeremy Corbyn on TV. She
:31:39. > :31:44.should do it and let the people decide. I don't know why she won't.
:31:45. > :31:49.Finally, the Labour mantra is that you are the party of the ordinary
:31:50. > :32:02.people, why is it the case that among what advertisers call C2s, D
:32:03. > :32:08.and E', how can you on the pulse of that social group, how can you do
:32:09. > :32:12.that? Our policy is to assist, protect and improve the living
:32:13. > :32:15.standards of people in those groups and our policy is to protect the
:32:16. > :32:20.living standards of the majority... They do not seem to be convinced? We
:32:21. > :32:22.have four weeks to convince them and I believe that we will. Thank you
:32:23. > :32:25.for coming onto the programme. But the wooden spoon from Thursday's
:32:26. > :32:30.elections undoubtedly went to Ukip. Four years ago the party
:32:31. > :32:33.won its best ever local government performance,
:32:34. > :32:35.but this time its support just Ukip's share of the vote
:32:36. > :32:38.plunging by as much as 18 points, most obviously
:32:39. > :32:42.benefiting the Conservatives. So is it all over for
:32:43. > :32:44.the self-styled people's army? Well we're joined now
:32:45. > :32:46.by the party's leader in the Welsh Assembly,
:32:47. > :32:57.Neil Hamilton, he's in Cardiff. Neil Hamilton, welcome. Ukip
:32:58. > :33:01.finished local elections gaining the same number of councillors as the
:33:02. > :33:07.Rubbish Party, one. That sums up your prospects, doesn't
:33:08. > :33:13.it? Rubbish? We have been around a long time and seemed that I'd go
:33:14. > :33:18.out, go in again, we will keep calm and carry on. We are in a phoney
:33:19. > :33:22.war, negotiations on Brexit have not started but what we know from
:33:23. > :33:25.Theresa May is that in seven years, as Home Secretary and Prime
:33:26. > :33:29.Minister, she has completely failed to control immigration which was one
:33:30. > :33:35.of the great driving forces behind the Brexit result. I'm not really
:33:36. > :33:38.looking for any great success in immigration from the Tories, and a
:33:39. > :33:43.lot of people who have previously voted for Ukip will be back in our
:33:44. > :33:48.part of the field again. They don't seem to care about that at the
:33:49. > :33:54.moment, your party lost 147 council seats. You gain one. It is time to
:33:55. > :33:58.shut up shop, isn't it? You are right, the voters are not focusing
:33:59. > :34:01.on other domestic issues at the moment. They have made up their
:34:02. > :34:07.minds going into these negotiations in Brussels, Theresa May, as Prime
:34:08. > :34:11.Minister, needs as much support as she can get. I think they are wrong
:34:12. > :34:17.in this respect, it would be better to have a cohort of Ukip MPs to back
:34:18. > :34:23.her up. She was greatly helped by the intervention of Mr Juncker last
:34:24. > :34:27.week as well, the stupidity in how the European Commission has tried to
:34:28. > :34:29.bully the British government, in those circumstances the British
:34:30. > :34:35.people will react in one way going the opposite way to what the
:34:36. > :34:39.Brussels establishment one. She has been fortunate as an acute tactician
:34:40. > :34:43.in having the election now. I struggle to see the way back for
:34:44. > :34:47.your party. You aren't a threat to the Tories in the south. Ukip voters
:34:48. > :34:52.are flocking to the Tories in the south. You don't threaten Labour in
:34:53. > :34:56.the north. It is the Tories who threaten Labour now in the north.
:34:57. > :35:01.There is no room to progress, is there? The reality will be is that
:35:02. > :35:06.once we are back on the domestic agenda again, and the Brexit
:35:07. > :35:11.negotiations are concluded, we will know what the outcome is. And the
:35:12. > :35:15.focus will be on bread and butter issues. We have all sorts of
:35:16. > :35:21.policies in our programme which other parties cannot match us on.
:35:22. > :35:25.The talk is putting up taxes to help the health service, we would scrap
:35:26. > :35:28.the foreign aid budget and put another ?8 billion in the health
:35:29. > :35:33.service, no other party says that. These policies would be popular with
:35:34. > :35:38.the ordinary working person. Is Paul Nuttall to blame on the meltdown of
:35:39. > :35:41.what happened, no matter who is leader? These are cosmic forces
:35:42. > :35:45.beyond the control of any individual at the moment, it is certainly not
:35:46. > :35:51.Paul Nuttall's .com he's been in the job for six months and in half that
:35:52. > :35:56.time he was fighting a by-election -- certainly not Paul Nuttall's
:35:57. > :35:59.fault. We have two become more professional than we have been
:36:00. > :36:05.recently. It has not been a brilliant year for Ukip one way or
:36:06. > :36:08.another, as you know, but there are prospects, in future, that are very
:36:09. > :36:13.rosy. I do not believe that the Tories will deliver on other
:36:14. > :36:17.promises that they are now making. The Welsh assembly elections are not
:36:18. > :36:21.until 2021, you are a member of that, but at that point you will not
:36:22. > :36:27.have any MEPs, because we will be out on the timetable. With this
:36:28. > :36:33.current showing he will have no end', you could be Ukip's most
:36:34. > :36:41.senior elected representative. That would be a turnout for the books! --
:36:42. > :36:45.no elected MPs. The Tories are not promoting the policies that I
:36:46. > :36:50.believe them. You will see that in the Ukip manifesto when it is
:36:51. > :37:00.shortly publish... Leaders talk mainly about the male genital
:37:01. > :37:05.mutilation and is -- female and burqas. No, when the manifesto
:37:06. > :37:12.launched, we have a lot of policies, I spoke moments ago about it, but
:37:13. > :37:16.also on foreign aid. Scrapping green taxes, to cut people's electricity
:37:17. > :37:25.bills by ?300 per year on average. There are a lot of popular policies
:37:26. > :37:29.that we have. We will hear more from that in the weeks to come.
:37:30. > :37:33.Paul Nuttall said "If the price of written leaving the year is a Tory
:37:34. > :37:39.advance after taking up this patriarch course, it is a price that
:37:40. > :37:43.Ukip is prepared to pay". That sounds like a surrender statement?
:37:44. > :37:48.It is a statement of fact, the main agenda is to get out of the EU and
:37:49. > :37:54.have full Brexit. That is why Ukip came into existence 20 years ago.
:37:55. > :37:58.When it is achieved, we go back to the normal political battle lines.
:37:59. > :38:02.Niall Hamilton in Cardiff, thank you very much for joining us.
:38:03. > :38:04.It's just gone 11.35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:05. > :38:07.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:38:08. > :38:17.Coming up here in 20 minutes - we'll be talking about the French
:38:18. > :38:23.Coming up in the North West: Cuddles from Corbyn for one of Labour's
:38:24. > :38:26.mayors but is the leader to blame for this man's success
:38:27. > :38:32.I must admit, I have voted Labour in the past but I am
:38:33. > :38:40.And we're joined in the studio by the second of Labour's
:38:41. > :38:44.Andy Burnham is no longer the MP for Leigh, but the first elected
:38:45. > :38:48.But very keen to keep her seat at Westminster is Seema Kennedy,
:38:49. > :38:49.the Conservative candidate for South Ribble.
:38:50. > :38:59.Congratulations to both of you. Had of Liverpool City Region shortly.
:39:00. > :39:06.Congratulations to both of you. Had it been a weekend of celebrations
:39:07. > :39:12.for both of you? I have two admit, the odd beer last
:39:13. > :39:19.night was taken. But work, too. I pointed my deputy mayors yesterday.
:39:20. > :39:22.Getting straight to work as well. By the Conservative Party in
:39:23. > :39:25.Lancashire, not a bad result. We had some really good results
:39:26. > :39:30.across Lancashire and people worked their socks off. We only had a few
:39:31. > :39:34.hours rest because we have a general election campaign that we are
:39:35. > :39:39.determined to work very hard for. Were you surprised? In places like
:39:40. > :39:45.south Trafford and those wards where you would not expect a Labour win?
:39:46. > :39:48.Overwhelmed is where would describe it. Handling that people went out in
:39:49. > :39:52.such numbers to give me their support. I have been around Greater
:39:53. > :39:56.Manchester for a long time so people know me so perhaps that helped at a
:39:57. > :40:00.have given me a very clear mandate and what I would say back to them is
:40:01. > :40:03.I am so grateful to them. Whenever you anything by halves in life. I
:40:04. > :40:08.give everything I have got and I will give you have got to loading
:40:09. > :40:11.Greater Manchester now. We got it renders opportunity before us and I
:40:12. > :40:17.will attempt to use it to the full. We will come on to your benefit
:40:18. > :40:19.promises in just a minute. -- manifesto promises.
:40:20. > :40:22.Let's start with the election of two Labour mayors.
:40:23. > :40:24.Andy Burnham won the Greater Manchester contest with 63
:40:25. > :40:27.The Conservative Sean Anstee more than 40 points behind -
:40:28. > :40:31.And Steve Rotheram won just under 60 percent of the vote
:40:32. > :40:34.in the Liverpool City Region - that's Merseyside plus Halton.
:40:35. > :40:36.Again, the conservative candidate the only other to make it
:40:37. > :40:40.Stuart Pollitt reports now on whether the voters
:40:41. > :40:43.were as excited as Andy Burnham here.
:40:44. > :40:48.On a day when the metro mayor votes in the north west were the brightest
:40:49. > :40:53.spots on the British political landscape for Labour.
:40:54. > :41:05.Steve Rotheram elected here with 59% of the vote.
:41:06. > :41:07.In Greater Manchester, the ballot papers piled
:41:08. > :41:18.The two Labour strongholds did hold firm for the party.
:41:19. > :41:26.But less than one in three people actually voted.
:41:27. > :41:33.The old rugby league rivals Saint Helens
:41:34. > :41:36.and Wiggin are only a few miles apart.
:41:37. > :41:38.Despite different elections, here it was the Liverpool
:41:39. > :41:41.Down the road in Wigan for Greater Manchester turnout was
:41:42. > :41:52.Why did you think it was worth doing? We need somebody to look
:41:53. > :41:57.after us down in the North instead of the self getting the best things.
:41:58. > :42:00.Giving the Meier can make a difference? I'm not totally
:42:01. > :42:10.convinced, to be honest. I'm not sure I agree with the Liverpool
:42:11. > :42:15.region. More powers for the mayor in Wigan
:42:16. > :42:19.did not want a much bigger tanner. And there we are on the body here
:42:20. > :42:22.but I still think it has an impact. To think you will make a difference
:42:23. > :42:24.Hopefully. You don't think the Meier Hopefully. You don't think the Meier
:42:25. > :42:31.will make any difference? No.
:42:32. > :42:37.Not that interested. I forgot about it, personally.
:42:38. > :42:40.That's a very honest answer. People knew who was going to win and
:42:41. > :42:46.people didn't realise how important these posts well. People were not
:42:47. > :42:51.interested. They did not understand the role of the city region Meier.
:42:52. > :42:54.So the first task that Steve Rotherham and Andy Burnham will have
:42:55. > :43:00.will be to show to the city region voters why then matter and what
:43:01. > :43:04.difference they are going to make. This was a clear victory for the two
:43:05. > :43:05.Labour candidates but it was a long way from a vote of thanks for these
:43:06. > :43:08.new posts. Our Merseyside reporter Andy Gill
:43:09. > :43:10.spoke to Steve Rotheram and asked him what he planned to do
:43:11. > :43:19.first. The idea now with that mandate is to
:43:20. > :43:24.implement the manifesto that I put forward and it has got some bold
:43:25. > :43:27.ideas in it. We want to, you know, be able to wrestle some further
:43:28. > :43:32.powers from central Government that will help us do some of the things
:43:33. > :43:35.that we won. But also, to get a fair share of resources.
:43:36. > :43:38.What is going to be your priority when you take office?
:43:39. > :43:41.There is no one priority. The programme is there and we're looking
:43:42. > :43:45.at what we can do in the short-term, what we can do in the medium and
:43:46. > :43:49.long-term. But I think some of the day that we will be able to do it to
:43:50. > :43:53.look first at transport infrastructure and the integration
:43:54. > :43:56.of our transport systems. We got some fantastic things but it needs
:43:57. > :44:00.to be not as together and you can only do that given the powers of a
:44:01. > :44:03.Metro mayor and the bus built that has gone through Parliament and were
:44:04. > :44:06.looking to CB can take buses back into public control.
:44:07. > :44:08.It topped in your speech about the Conservatives. The Conservatives
:44:09. > :44:12.have come second. What do you make of that? Someone
:44:13. > :44:16.had to come second. They came along way back in second. The had a good
:44:17. > :44:20.candidate, I have to say, and they put up a spirited fight. But there
:44:21. > :44:27.is bound to some people who don't support Labour and their eagle of
:44:28. > :44:31.choice was the Tory party. Hopefully that won't be replicated in five
:44:32. > :44:31.weeks' time in a national general election.
:44:32. > :44:35.Was that because of Jeremy Corbyn, Was that because of Jeremy Corbyn,
:44:36. > :44:40.do you think? Was he an asset or a disadvantage for you?
:44:41. > :44:46.Jeremy is Marmite and he laughs about but it is the truth. In some
:44:47. > :44:47.areas, affluent areas of our city region, sometimes it was too good to
:44:48. > :44:50.get the message over because they get the message over because they
:44:51. > :44:55.did not really appreciate what Jeremy was trying to achieve but it
:44:56. > :44:58.is because the Labour Party have not had a fair crack at the work. If you
:44:59. > :45:04.look at what has happened with the aid has been about Corbyn. And it is
:45:05. > :45:05.about policies we can win and policy to policy on the doorstep Labour
:45:06. > :45:14.policies came ahead of anyone else. That start with your manifesto
:45:15. > :45:19.pledges. Pledged to give a roof of every head by 2020, focusing on the
:45:20. > :45:22.homeless. How do you make that happen?
:45:23. > :45:27.It is a difficult challenge, of course. Was the single biggest issue
:45:28. > :45:31.of the election because people have seen the rising number of people
:45:32. > :45:34.huddled in our doorways and the people of Greater Manchester being
:45:35. > :45:38.as they are, they do not like to see. They want something to be done.
:45:39. > :45:41.It starts tomorrow. A major announcement tomorrow. I'm
:45:42. > :45:45.fulfilling my commitment to donate 15% my salary to create a new
:45:46. > :45:50.homelessness bun. It is not about roofs overheads, is
:45:51. > :45:52.it? Haven't spoken to people, the reasons why people are on the
:45:53. > :45:57.streets are many and varied and complex.
:45:58. > :46:00.Buy a roof over every head we're ending rough sleeping. Shelters
:46:01. > :46:05.every communities so that people do not need to be outside braving the
:46:06. > :46:09.to make sure everyone has want and to make sure everyone has want and
:46:10. > :46:12.shelter we will do that. The bigger challenge is to end homelessness,
:46:13. > :46:18.which is about mental health services being better than they are,
:46:19. > :46:22.drug and alcohol services, other ideas needed to deal with a much
:46:23. > :46:24.bigger problem. Employment in mental health
:46:25. > :46:30.services. That's in the context of austerity under ?5 billion budget
:46:31. > :46:33.which is limited. Some experts are already saying.
:46:34. > :46:37.Where will the money come from? We need a housing policy that is more
:46:38. > :46:42.focused on building truly affordable housing. Rather than homes at the
:46:43. > :46:45.more desirable end, let's say. All of those things are needed but you
:46:46. > :46:51.write about the money. The money situation will be very difficult and
:46:52. > :46:55.I will be challenging my colleagues to say, give us a fair deal. I will
:46:56. > :46:58.bring but differently are bringing social care International service
:46:59. > :47:03.which is what I want to do, we can spend the money very differently.
:47:04. > :47:06.Build support around people in their hands are not the people trapped in
:47:07. > :47:10.hospital which cost a lot of money for the NHS.
:47:11. > :47:15.Will you be asking for more money? Is six billion and for this region?
:47:16. > :47:17.The wrong thing to do would be immediately complaining about not
:47:18. > :47:22.having enough. If first got to show that you can manage what you've got.
:47:23. > :47:26.And I will do that. But, yes, it cannot be right that we have got
:47:27. > :47:28.schools in Greater Manchester sending begging letters home to
:47:29. > :47:32.parents, it cannot be right that our parents, it cannot be right that our
:47:33. > :47:34.police still been cut crime is rising. So I will be making these
:47:35. > :47:39.arguments very loudly when it comes arguments very loudly when it comes
:47:40. > :47:44.terms of their election manifesto. terms of their election manifesto.
:47:45. > :47:47.Does the need to be more money made available when we strike these
:47:48. > :47:55.devolution deals? And it is right to focus on results
:47:56. > :47:58.because resources are important. This idea of integrating health and
:47:59. > :48:02.social care, let's hope this successful. And I wish him really
:48:03. > :48:07.the best in this because it has got to be the future of how we manage
:48:08. > :48:10.health and social care in an ageing society.
:48:11. > :48:14.A big responsibility. And I absolutely intend to leave the
:48:15. > :48:17.point-scoring in Westminster. I want to work with people who are prepared
:48:18. > :48:21.to support where Greater Manchester want to go in the future.
:48:22. > :48:25.Let's talk about your victory on the steps of the conference centre.
:48:26. > :48:29.Jeremy Corbyn was there a few hours later. At what point did you know he
:48:30. > :48:34.would be in Manchester? We made it clear to his team earlier
:48:35. > :48:39.in the week that I would not be at a rally, because I went straight to a
:48:40. > :48:43.number of events after the count. What was more important than
:48:44. > :48:47.standing there with the leader of the parties for weeks before the
:48:48. > :48:51.election? I had a plan to get on with the job.
:48:52. > :48:56.I appointed to people to deputy mayor positions.
:48:57. > :49:02.There were photographs of you enjoying yourself.
:49:03. > :49:06.My campaign team were quite amazing and it was right and proper.
:49:07. > :49:09.But is it right and proper that you campaign on a Labour ticket with a
:49:10. > :49:13.Labour rosette and you have been a member of the parties due 14, would
:49:14. > :49:17.not been the right thing to do to stand by the party leader and say,
:49:18. > :49:24.this your next Prime Minister. To be honest, the idea that this is
:49:25. > :49:27.an issue frustrates me. Because this trivia of politics.
:49:28. > :49:31.Were you at a rally were you not? Is it trivial when you've got MPs who
:49:32. > :49:35.could lose their seat and people in their constituency will have voted
:49:36. > :49:40.for US may, is it trivial for you to not stand by the party leader.
:49:41. > :49:46.People voted for me to get on with the job. As a favourite candidate.
:49:47. > :49:51.People clearly voted me across all political divides. And I want to be
:49:52. > :49:57.a mayor body. I made it clear would be getting straight on with the job
:49:58. > :49:59.and that is what I have done. You cannot put their selection into the
:50:00. > :50:03.general election campaign and consider it a part of that. It was
:50:04. > :50:09.separate stop but you represented the Labour Party.
:50:10. > :50:13.A Labour MP said at your bed, we're going to be annihilated at this
:50:14. > :50:20.election. Would it have been damage limitation?
:50:21. > :50:25.It is a devolved situation. It is about doing what we need to do here.
:50:26. > :50:28.I had a very clear schedule set out earlier in the week.
:50:29. > :50:33.Which was more important. Jeremy knew that I would not be
:50:34. > :50:37.there. He is doing sterling work here holding the line but the point
:50:38. > :50:42.is clear. If you vote for a Labour candidate on the 8th of June would
:50:43. > :50:46.necessarily end up with a sensible, moderate person like him, you're
:50:47. > :50:51.going to end up with Jeremy Corbyn, and John McDonnell. People know
:50:52. > :50:54.that. They're telling that on the doorstep and I'm sure they said the
:50:55. > :50:58.same to him. This is an issue of who or not is an issue.
:50:59. > :51:01.Can I ask you about devolution, because George Osborne was the
:51:02. > :51:05.architect of this purity was very proud of it. We feel licensed the
:51:06. > :51:10.new cabinet has come in there is lukewarm enthusiasm for this.
:51:11. > :51:17.I do not agree at all. I think the prime Minster has made it very clear
:51:18. > :51:21.that she is completely committed to the powerhouse. She was in my
:51:22. > :51:24.constituency on Monday. We know she wants to be a prime Minster that
:51:25. > :51:28.rules for everybody. We've got to have representation.
:51:29. > :51:33.She does not talk about devolution with the same enthusiasm.
:51:34. > :51:39.She stopped talking about the northern Para house. It was all
:51:40. > :51:40.about the West Midlands and all of a sudden the northern powerhouse was
:51:41. > :51:46.out of fashion. I don't agree. We still have Minster
:51:47. > :51:50.and we have strong representation. I hope you're right. Of course. If
:51:51. > :51:53.you look at the situation in the north-west revealed hundreds of
:51:54. > :51:57.thousands more people in work, without loads more...
:51:58. > :52:00.I will set a clear test and I will say this to the Prime Minister. In
:52:01. > :52:04.your manifesto you should explicitly make clear that Crossrail for the
:52:05. > :52:08.North, west to east rail across the North should be a higher priority
:52:09. > :52:14.than Crossrail to London. That is a very, very easy...
:52:15. > :52:18.We were told we would have an answer in March but we still don't.
:52:19. > :52:21.I don't know what to be in the manifesto by the Government has
:52:22. > :52:26.shown it is committed to building more and more infrastructure and
:52:27. > :52:29.spending. We had more money invested in the north-western 's 2010.
:52:30. > :52:31.From metro mayors to county councils, where the picture
:52:32. > :52:35.In Cumbria, the conservatives gained 12 seats - up to 37 -
:52:36. > :52:37.overtaking Labour as the largest party after it lost 10.
:52:38. > :52:39.The Conservatives are six short of a majority.
:52:40. > :52:42.The Lib Dems gained one and there are two fewer independents.
:52:43. > :52:47.In Derbyshire, there was a huge swing from Labour
:52:48. > :52:52.to the Conservatives as they took control of the county council there.
:52:53. > :52:54.And after four years of minority Labour rule,
:52:55. > :52:57.the Conservatives are back in charge of Lancashire - gaining 11 seats.
:52:58. > :53:01.UKIP bucked the national trend there by taking a seat.
:53:02. > :53:08.And Lancashire - as ever - is a key battleground in next
:53:09. > :53:11.Phil McCann's been to see if the tide there is turning
:53:12. > :53:14.The Conservatives are circling in Fleetwood.
:53:15. > :53:17.And the county council election results here in North Lancashire
:53:18. > :53:29.It is as certain as the tide that this marginal seat will be a major
:53:30. > :53:32.battle ground in the general election which is why the kind
:53:33. > :53:34.against the conservative made around here and the County Council
:53:35. > :53:36.elections will be so worrying for Labour.
:53:37. > :53:39.Labour lost one of the two county council seats representing Fleetwood
:53:40. > :53:46.Labour MP Cat Smith beat the Tories by just 1200
:53:47. > :53:49.in the constituency that represents this seaside town and Lancaster.
:53:50. > :53:51.But were people thinking of county or country
:53:52. > :54:02.The library, the museum. They try to take it all away.
:54:03. > :54:07.admit, I have voted Labour in the admit, I have voted Labour in the
:54:08. > :54:10.past but I'm afraid Corbyn is a joke.
:54:11. > :54:13.he? It does not come over to the he? It does not come over to the
:54:14. > :54:17.people, Oregon. Not like the other lass. It is
:54:18. > :54:20.clearly been the national situation that has affected the results all
:54:21. > :54:26.over the country and in Lancashire as well. It opens up, you know, the
:54:27. > :54:31.seat in Lancashire like Fleetwood, where we are. And possibly even a
:54:32. > :54:35.few others. These are swing seats that the Tories will be having their
:54:36. > :54:38.ion. The Deputy speaker represents truly
:54:39. > :54:41.with the majority of order half thousand. Labour's council but was
:54:42. > :54:48.greeted possibly constituency like here in Clayton. City councillors it
:54:49. > :54:50.was not the wash out some were expecting.
:54:51. > :54:54.Across Lancashire it is a little bit grim for the Labour Party. We are
:54:55. > :55:00.clearly now in opposition territory. But in Chorley we held our own.
:55:01. > :55:03.I had a number of conversations about national issues with people
:55:04. > :55:07.and there is a lot of support for two reasons.
:55:08. > :55:10.Was a lot of it Brexit as well? Chorley voted Brexit. A lot people
:55:11. > :55:13.wanted to make sure we got a good Brexit deal.
:55:14. > :55:20.Which runs us to another party that might face trouble. Ukip. This is
:55:21. > :55:23.the only Ukip County Council in the whole country. Many voters have
:55:24. > :55:26.abandoned them for the Conservatives including this format Ukip
:55:27. > :55:35.candidate. The Tories have stolen the Ukip
:55:36. > :55:39.boats. Unless Ukip can come up with another like to run up the flagpole,
:55:40. > :55:43.I don't see a lot of future. All that makes it more likely that
:55:44. > :55:48.two main parties will be the ones scavenging for beds next month in
:55:49. > :55:51.places like this. -- scavenging for votes.
:55:52. > :55:54.And joining us from Lancashire is Geoff Driver, whose return
:55:55. > :55:56.as leader of the council now just needs rubber stamping.
:55:57. > :56:02.Congratulations. A great result for the Conservatives. I was in frequent
:56:03. > :56:09.ahead of the elections, people across there. We know there is a
:56:10. > :56:14.projected funding gap of ?153 million by 2021. You sure you want
:56:15. > :56:18.this job? I'm sorry, the sound is really bad.
:56:19. > :56:23.I did not hear that. Do you definitely want the job? Bearing in
:56:24. > :56:33.mind that you'll need to make cuts of ?153 million by 2021?
:56:34. > :56:37.That's the deficit and that is the first thing we will have two tackle.
:56:38. > :56:40.We've got our plans. With actually suggested we will invest more in
:56:41. > :56:44.some of the services and we will do that. Of course, it will not be easy
:56:45. > :56:49.and we cannot wait to get on with the job.
:56:50. > :56:51.What other plans? Where do you make those savings?
:56:52. > :56:55.Well, the first they will do is look at the way the County Council
:56:56. > :56:59.finances expenditure. There is a history in the County Council of not
:57:00. > :57:03.making the best use of the zone resources and stop making the best
:57:04. > :57:05.use of the way local Government expenditure should be financed and
:57:06. > :57:09.that is the first thing we'll be looking apple. The second thing is
:57:10. > :57:14.to eliminate all the ways that is going on. Tens of millions of pounds
:57:15. > :57:17.are being wasted on political league motivated schemes, one engaging
:57:18. > :57:21.outside consultants, we can save money in that direction and thirdly,
:57:22. > :57:25.we are looking to work more closely with our colleagues and district
:57:26. > :57:28.councils because I am absolutely certain that tens of millions of
:57:29. > :57:32.pounds can be saved every year if the local authorities work together
:57:33. > :57:34.to provide the best services of the people of Lancashire in the most
:57:35. > :57:39.appropriate way. Very quickly. It has been said that
:57:40. > :57:45.Manchester is looking at it repaired because of finances, we see and ends
:57:46. > :57:48.to that? There is a problem there and I have
:57:49. > :57:53.been pressing Government along with a lot of colleagues at a local level
:57:54. > :57:57.to ensure that the Government really does understand exactly what the
:57:58. > :58:01.problems are and perhaps more importantly, exactly how those
:58:02. > :58:06.problems can be so. It is not just a case of giving more money to local
:58:07. > :58:11.authorities in a general way, they need to look very closely at what
:58:12. > :58:14.the needs of individual local authorities are and how each local
:58:15. > :58:18.authority is best placed to meet those needs.
:58:19. > :58:22.Many thanks and congratulations again. Let's start with that. The
:58:23. > :58:25.reality of Government cuts, the reality of us territory is that
:58:26. > :58:28.conservative council leaders are having to pick up the pieces and
:58:29. > :58:30.close libraries, swimming pools. That is what is happening because of
:58:31. > :58:34.a conservative comment. a conservative comment.
:58:35. > :58:38.The Government recognises the pressure on the social care system
:58:39. > :58:41.and that is why things like complete integration of health and social
:58:42. > :58:45.care, that has been trialled in Manchester, I think that is the way
:58:46. > :58:51.forward. There was more money put in in the last budget. And there's an
:58:52. > :58:57.opportunity for councils if they want to put more council tax for
:58:58. > :59:01.social care. Will have to see what's on the manifesto but nobody says
:59:02. > :59:03.this is an easy thing to solve. With an ageing society, more people
:59:04. > :59:08.living with chronic conditions, it is a challenge for the future. We've
:59:09. > :59:11.worked well together, parliamentarians and the County
:59:12. > :59:17.Council, and I'm sure we will carry on doing that in Lancashire.
:59:18. > :59:20.The Labour Party saying an answer for social care provision is to
:59:21. > :59:25.increase taxation for those earning ?80,000 or more. In the glory days
:59:26. > :59:27.for the Labour Party that was not a policy they would have gone with
:59:28. > :59:32.because it is pretty bristling voters.
:59:33. > :59:35.We did something very similar. We raise National Insurance for the NHS
:59:36. > :59:39.in the early part of the last decade in the public accepted it. I think
:59:40. > :59:46.they would accept this policy because the NHS cannot carry on the
:59:47. > :59:49.basis that it is currently working. The social care funding that has
:59:50. > :59:54.been provided as sticking plasters to be honest. I have long argued for
:59:55. > :59:57.a very radical, long-term solution to the funding of social care and
:59:58. > :00:01.again, I would ask all three main parties to put forward genuine
:00:02. > :00:05.proposals for social care in their manifesto. We cannot carry on in
:00:06. > :00:08.this basis. The collapse of social care is leaving older people trapped
:00:09. > :00:11.in hospitals and is tracking down the NHS with it.
:00:12. > :00:17.It has got to be addressed. In these money, does it? What can we expect
:00:18. > :00:24.in the manifesto? The amount of money put into the NHS
:00:25. > :00:28.from 2015 is ?10 billion. I don't what is going to be in the manifesto
:00:29. > :00:38.but we need to look on the outcomes as well. People are living...
:00:39. > :00:42.We're hearing the Royal College of physicians saying that lives are at
:00:43. > :00:44.risk. The Prime Minister does not want any
:00:45. > :00:47.of this to be debated at the election for Bush is that it is all
:00:48. > :00:51.about Brexit and leadership. This is at a point when we have got schools
:00:52. > :00:56.sending him begging letters. I don't agree with that is all about
:00:57. > :01:00.us on the doorstep, I have conversations with my constituents
:01:01. > :01:05.about health care, about education, and just want to address the thing
:01:06. > :01:09.about school funding. You have got to organise, and this has been
:01:10. > :01:11.recognised the existing system... We will have to wrap it up there.
:01:12. > :01:15.Thank you very much. housing associations and investment,
:01:16. > :01:26.but we have run out of time, thank you. Andrew.
:01:27. > :01:32.Four weeks to go until polling day on the 8th of June, what will the
:01:33. > :01:36.party strategies be for the remaining four weeks? Let's begin
:01:37. > :01:42.with the Conservatives. Do they just try to continue to play it safe for
:01:43. > :01:47.four weeks? Yes, with this important qualification. Theresa May Corp this
:01:48. > :01:51.election to get her own personal mandate partly, partly because she
:01:52. > :01:57.thought she would win big but to get her own personal mandate. Therefore,
:01:58. > :02:01.she needs to define it. In her own interests and to do with
:02:02. > :02:05.accountability to the country. So clearly, they will not take risks
:02:06. > :02:07.when they are so far ahead in the polls. What they do say in the
:02:08. > :02:13.manifesto matters in terms of the space that she has in
:02:14. > :02:18.the coming years to define her leadership against David Cameron 's.
:02:19. > :02:23.She is a free figure, partly on the basis of what she says as to how big
:02:24. > :02:33.she wins. They cannot just play it safe and repeat their mantra of
:02:34. > :02:38.strong and stable leadership, if she is going to claim her own mandate,
:02:39. > :02:42.they need the top policy? Yes, and what is unusual about this is that
:02:43. > :02:46.the manifesto matters far more because of what they need to do with
:02:47. > :02:51.it afterwards, than in terms of whether it is going to win anybody
:02:52. > :02:55.over now. Clearly, the strategy is yes, we do have two layout out a few
:02:56. > :02:59.things, there are interesting debates as to whether, for example,
:03:00. > :03:02.they will still commit to this ambition of reducing immigration to
:03:03. > :03:06.the tens of thousands, we do not know the answer yet. It is a
:03:07. > :03:12.question on whether she is setting herself up for difficulties later
:03:13. > :03:18.on. It will be a short manifesto, I would venture to guess? It is in her
:03:19. > :03:22.interests to be as noncommittal as possible, that argues for a short
:03:23. > :03:26.manifesto but what does strike me about the Conservative campaign,
:03:27. > :03:30.aside from the ambiguity on policy, is how personal it is. I think
:03:31. > :03:35.Theresa May, in her most recent speech, referred to "My local
:03:36. > :03:39.candidates", rather than Parliamentary candidates, very much
:03:40. > :03:45.framing it as a presidential candidate in France or the USA. Not
:03:46. > :03:50.a rational on her part. Everything I hear from the MPs on the ground and
:03:51. > :03:54.the focus groups being done by the parties, is that a big chunk of the
:03:55. > :03:58.population personally identify with her. If you can wrap up Middle
:03:59. > :04:02.England into a physical object and embody it in a person, it would be
:04:03. > :04:06.her. Although Jeremy Corbyn's unpopularity accounts for a big
:04:07. > :04:10.slice of her popularity, she has done a good job of bonding with the
:04:11. > :04:15.public. We never saw that coming! But you may well be right. That is
:04:16. > :04:19.happening now. Labour say it wants the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell
:04:20. > :04:22.to play a more prominent role in the Labour campaign, he was on The
:04:23. > :04:26.Andrew Marr Show this morning and he was asked if he was a Marxist, he
:04:27. > :04:31.denied that he was. It surprised me as I had seen tape from before
:04:32. > :04:39.saying that he was proud of it. Let's look now and then. Are you a
:04:40. > :04:43.Marxist? I believe that there is a lot to learn... Yes or no? I believe
:04:44. > :04:48.that there is a lot to learn from reading capital, that is recommended
:04:49. > :04:52.not only by me but measuring economists as well. I also believe
:04:53. > :05:00.that in the long tradition of the Labour Party... We need to demand
:05:01. > :05:05.systemic change. I am a Marxist. This is a classic crisis of the
:05:06. > :05:10.economy. A capitalist crisis. I've been waiting for this for a
:05:11. > :05:15.generation! That was from about four years ago. No, I'm not a Marxist,
:05:16. > :05:19.yes, I am a Marxist... I've been waiting for the Marxist revolution
:05:20. > :05:24.my whole life... Does this kind of thing matter? Yes, but in fairness,
:05:25. > :05:29.I think he is a really good interviewee. The Shadow Cabinet have
:05:30. > :05:34.untested figures in a national campaign. None have ever been
:05:35. > :05:38.exposed at any level to a national media campaign that they are about
:05:39. > :05:43.to experience. He is the best interviewee. In fairness to him,
:05:44. > :05:48.when he gave that clip four years ago, I bet he never dream that he
:05:49. > :05:53.would be in a senior front bench position. But the background is
:05:54. > :05:56.clear. They are of the left, and I think they would all have described
:05:57. > :06:02.it. Jeremy Corbyn would have done, he is close to being like Tony Benn.
:06:03. > :06:08.There are about four Labour campaign is being fought in this election.
:06:09. > :06:11.Their campaign, the old Shadow Cabinet, campaigning in
:06:12. > :06:16.constituencies, but not identifying with that campaign. There is the
:06:17. > :06:22.former Labour leader Tony Blair. Is it damaging? I think so, if they
:06:23. > :06:26.could be damaged any further, I could see all of the Labour MPs with
:06:27. > :06:29.their heads in their hands. What I am hearing from Labour MPs is that
:06:30. > :06:33.there is not one of them who do not feel that they have a horrendous
:06:34. > :06:37.battle on their hands. These will be very individual local campaigns,
:06:38. > :06:42.where local MPs are winning despite the party leadership and not because
:06:43. > :06:48.of it. Already, talk is turning to what happens next. Is there anyway
:06:49. > :06:54.that Jeremy Corbyn, giving a horrendous set of general election
:06:55. > :06:59.results as many anticipate, may stay on all the same? It is not clear
:07:00. > :07:04.that even if the polls are right, that Mr Corbyn will go? John
:07:05. > :07:08.McDonnell implied it might not be the case but previously, he said it
:07:09. > :07:13.would be. What do you make of reports that the Labour strategy is
:07:14. > :07:17.not, I cannot quite believe I am saying this, not to win seats but
:07:18. > :07:22.maximise a share of the vote. If they do better than Ed Miliband with
:07:23. > :07:27.30.5% of the vote, they believe they live to fight another day? Yes, it
:07:28. > :07:31.reminded me of Tony Benn's speech after the 1983 election where they
:07:32. > :07:35.said as bad as the Parliamentary defeat was there were 8 million
:07:36. > :07:44.votes for socialism. A big section of public opinion voted for that
:07:45. > :07:49.manifesto. I wonder whether that is Corbyn's supporters best chance of
:07:50. > :07:53.holding onto power. Whether they can say that those votes are a platform
:07:54. > :07:57.on which we can build. That said, even moderate Labour MPs and
:07:58. > :08:01.desperate for a quick leadership contest. I hear a lot of them say
:08:02. > :08:06.that they would like to leave it for one year. Maybe have Tom Watson as
:08:07. > :08:09.an acting Labour leader. He would still have a mandate. Give the top
:08:10. > :08:14.party a chance to regroup and get rid of some of its problems and
:08:15. > :08:17.decide where it stands on policy. Most importantly, for potential
:08:18. > :08:20.candidates to show what they are made of, rather than lurching
:08:21. > :08:25.straight into an Yvette Cooper Coronation. 30 seconds on the
:08:26. > :08:33.Liberal Democrats, their strategy was to mop up the Remain vote.
:08:34. > :08:40.Uncertain about the Brexit party in demise. Ukip. The remain as have a
:08:41. > :08:46.dilemma, the little Democrats are not a strong enough vessel with 89
:08:47. > :08:51.MPs to risk all ongoing for them -- the Liberal Democrats. Labour do not
:08:52. > :08:56.know where they stand on Brexit. There is not a robust alternative
:08:57. > :09:04.vessel for what is now a pro-Brexit Conservative Party. At the moment.
:09:05. > :09:06.Four weeks to go, but not for France...
:09:07. > :09:09.France has been voting since early this morning, and we should get
:09:10. > :09:12.a first estimate of who will be the country's next President
:09:13. > :09:16.Just to warn you there are some flashing images coming up.
:09:17. > :09:18.The choice in France is between a centre-left liberal
:09:19. > :09:20.reformer Emmanuel Macron and a right-wing nationalist
:09:21. > :09:22.Marine Le Pen - both have been casting their votes this morning.
:09:23. > :09:25.The two candidates topped a field of 11 presidential
:09:26. > :09:27.hopefuls in the first round of elections last month.
:09:28. > :09:29.The campaign has been marked by its unpredictability,
:09:30. > :09:35.and in a final twist on Friday evening, just before
:09:36. > :09:37.campaigning officially ended, Mr Macron's En Marche! group said
:09:38. > :09:43.it had been the victim of a "massive" hack,
:09:44. > :09:45.with a trove of documents released online.
:09:46. > :09:48.The Macron team said real documents were mixed up with fake ones,
:09:49. > :09:50.and electoral authorities warned media and the public that spreading
:09:51. > :10:01.details of the leaks would breach strict election rules.
:10:02. > :10:02.I'm joined now from Paris by the journalist
:10:03. > :10:16.As I left Paris recently, everybody told me that there was the consensus
:10:17. > :10:21.that Mr Macron would win, and win pretty comfortable you. Is there any
:10:22. > :10:26.reason to doubt that? -- pretty comfortably. I don't think so, there
:10:27. > :10:31.have been so many people left and right, former candidates who have
:10:32. > :10:35.decided that it was more important to vote for Macron, even if it was
:10:36. > :10:41.agreed with him, then run the risk of having Marine Le Pen as
:10:42. > :10:45.president. I think the spread is now 20 points, 60% to Macron, 40% to Le
:10:46. > :10:51.Pen. So outside of the margin of error that it would take something
:10:52. > :10:55.huge for this to be observed. If the polls are right and Mr Macron wins,
:10:56. > :11:02.he has to put together a government, and in May there is a Coronation,
:11:03. > :11:07.then he faces parliamentary elections in June and could face a
:11:08. > :11:13.fractured parliament where he does not have a clear majority for his
:11:14. > :11:17.reforms. He could then faced difficulties in getting his
:11:18. > :11:22.programme through? I think that right now, with how things are
:11:23. > :11:26.looking, considering you have one half of the Republican party, the
:11:27. > :11:33.Conservative Party, they are making clear sides, not only that they want
:11:34. > :11:38.to support Macron but are supporting him actively. It means looking at
:11:39. > :11:42.the equivalent of the German party, the great coalition. Depending on
:11:43. > :11:46.how many seats established parties keep in the house committee may very
:11:47. > :11:58.well have a Republican Prime Minister, rather than having an
:11:59. > :12:06.adversarial MP, he may have someone who is relatively unknown outside of
:12:07. > :12:11.France, and a young woman. Contended that lost the Parez mayorship three
:12:12. > :12:17.years ago. She is a scientist and has been secretary of state. She
:12:18. > :12:23.would be an interesting coalition Prime Minister. Finally, Marine Le
:12:24. > :12:29.Pen, if she goes down to defeat a night, does she have the stomach and
:12:30. > :12:36.ambition, and the energy, to try it all again in 2022? She has all of
:12:37. > :12:43.that. The question is, would they let her? How badly would she lose?
:12:44. > :12:50.Her niece, now 27, a hard-working and steady person, unlike Marine Le
:12:51. > :12:54.Pen, who flunked her do paid -- debate, her niece may decide that
:12:55. > :13:02.2022 is her turn. Yet another Le Pen! All right, we will see. Just
:13:03. > :13:04.five years to wait, but only a few hours until the results of the
:13:05. > :13:09.election tonight. And we will get the exit polls here
:13:10. > :13:13.on the BBC. Given the exit polls will give as a pretty fair
:13:14. > :13:15.indication of what the result is going to be tonight. That will be on
:13:16. > :13:19.BBC news. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will cover every
:13:20. > :13:21.turn of this election campaign, And we're back here on BBC One
:13:22. > :13:26.at our usual time Next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:27. > :13:28.it's the Sunday Politics. Our crack team of experts
:13:29. > :14:13.use pioneering research