:01:20. > :01:24.It was a short, sharp campaign and now the Ulster Unionists have a new
:01:24. > :01:34.leader. Join me in half an hour when I'll ask Mike Nesbitt to put
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :37:39.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2164 seconds
:37:39. > :37:43.some flesh on the bones of his Hello and welcome to The Sunday
:37:43. > :37:47.Politics in Northern Ireland. The three-week contest to become Ulster
:37:47. > :37:50.Unionist leader came to a dramatic climax yesterday. More than 600
:37:50. > :37:54.party members gathered to cast their votes at a hotel on the
:37:54. > :37:57.outskirts of Belfast. The bookies put Mike Nesbitt ahead right from
:37:57. > :38:03.the close of nominations. And they were right. He won a decisive
:38:03. > :38:05.victory. We'll hear from him shortly. Also on the programme:
:38:05. > :38:13.Remember enterprise zones? The Chancellor has brought them back.
:38:13. > :38:17.But why are there none in Northern Ireland? There has been more rapid
:38:17. > :38:21.progress in England, Scotland and Wales and some of these ideas could
:38:21. > :38:24.apply to Northern Ireland. calls for one MLA to leave his post,
:38:24. > :38:34.another to leave his party and a third to deliver. A baby, that is.
:38:34. > :38:36.It's been a busy week. But first, with me for the next 20 minutes are
:38:36. > :38:45.Liam Clarke, political editor of the Belfast Telegraph, and
:38:45. > :38:48.Professor Graham Walker from Queen's University. Many other
:38:48. > :38:54.delegates we spoke to yesterday said that it was because Mike
:38:54. > :38:58.Nesbitt was good in the media. Is that what it boiled down to? People
:38:58. > :39:04.I spoke to, 10 people coming out of the hall, most of them had been up
:39:04. > :39:10.their mind before they went to vote that they did comment on Mike's
:39:10. > :39:17.speech, they said that he walked around the podium, he was fluid and
:39:17. > :39:20.he was a good communicator. One comment at John was that he was
:39:20. > :39:27.like a Traditional Unionist speech, rousing, but it was a polished
:39:27. > :39:31.performance that they needed. history of the party has always
:39:31. > :39:36.been division over the Liberal agenda. Can this be a fresh start
:39:36. > :39:41.for the Ulster Unionist Party? will have to be. The main challenge
:39:41. > :39:46.is to stop the slide into the margins of politics. The UUP has a
:39:46. > :39:51.long history of covering Northern Ireland and the long history of
:39:51. > :39:56.being the centre of initiatives to resolve the conflict. The party has
:39:56. > :40:01.a great problem in adjusting to not being at the centre of things and
:40:01. > :40:05.this leadership issue is crucial. He will be the third Ulster
:40:05. > :40:08.Unionist leader in as many years. But can he unite the membership?
:40:08. > :40:17.Before we hear from Mike Nesbitt, how did his victory go down among
:40:17. > :40:22.the party faithful? Today is fantastic for us, there is a lot of
:40:22. > :40:26.excitement and they did not know if anybody has realised. Mike Nesbitt
:40:26. > :40:31.will be fantastic. I hope he we energises the people to come out
:40:31. > :40:36.and vote because a lot of Unionists are not voting and we need to bring
:40:36. > :40:42.more young people into politics. is a very good media performer. He
:40:42. > :40:44.declared his campaign early, which helps, and he is a very strong
:40:44. > :40:50.leader with great personal qualities and he made a great
:40:50. > :40:54.effort in going around the country. Both candidates are very positive
:40:54. > :40:58.and they would bring great things to the party but they chose John
:40:58. > :41:02.mainly on his speech and his conviction in wanting to bring
:41:02. > :41:07.opposition into the party and trying to bring an alternative to
:41:07. > :41:11.people. Mike Nesbitt, some delegates we spoke to said that
:41:11. > :41:17.even though they voted for you, there was more substance with John
:41:17. > :41:23.McCallister. When will we get real policies from you? I did not hear
:41:23. > :41:28.John's speech. I cannot comment. was standing for opposition.
:41:28. > :41:33.Actually, there is no opposition so he was standing on taking the
:41:33. > :41:38.Minister out of the executive. I will be clear, we need to be more
:41:38. > :41:42.cohesive as the inept and coherent inner cities. What does it actually
:41:42. > :41:49.mean in real terms? What are you doing that is different from the
:41:49. > :41:53.DUP? You want to ask these questions today and I want to say
:41:53. > :41:59.that what we did 14 years ago is now over. It was the heavy lifting
:41:59. > :42:01.that brought peace. We had a vote yesterday which said that the party
:42:01. > :42:06.accepts that is over and the challenge and what the electorate
:42:06. > :42:09.is looking for is who will do the next heavy lifting? And the big
:42:09. > :42:13.challenge is delivering the social justice agenda in the Belfast
:42:13. > :42:17.Agreement which has not been delivered, bringing about a shared
:42:17. > :42:22.future and that is where we will draw a line between ourselves and
:42:22. > :42:29.the Democratic Unionist Party. previously said Holmes, not houses
:42:29. > :42:35.and homes to be enjoyed. That was described as some as motherhood and
:42:35. > :42:40.apple pie. What is wrong with being aspirational? What I would like us
:42:40. > :42:46.to do is return to where we were a decade ago and become contributors
:42:46. > :42:50.to the Treasury. To do away with the block grant. Why not aim for
:42:50. > :42:56.that? If we're going to grow the private sector, why not have it as
:42:56. > :43:05.good as in the golden era? What DUP policies do you a pose and really
:43:05. > :43:12.differ from? Shared a verses shared out future. Something broader
:43:12. > :43:16.between us. Look at this week, there was a debate over whether
:43:16. > :43:20.George Galloway's shocking success was the final proof that the
:43:20. > :43:24.electorate in the UK are now totally disconnected from Korea and
:43:24. > :43:27.professional politicians and if that is the case, we are in a
:43:28. > :43:32.position where we have an act as someone who isn't a career
:43:32. > :43:35.politician and we can become attractive. He is very well-known,
:43:35. > :43:42.the targeted at particular area and some people say the same things
:43:42. > :43:47.about you! Was that not good politics? To get a good turnout and
:43:47. > :43:52.a decisive vote? Is that not but I was supposed to do? To come out
:43:52. > :43:56.with a large mandate? It's interesting about the turn out
:43:56. > :44:02.because we were told in the run-up to the leadership vote that there
:44:02. > :44:11.were 2000 party members that could vote but only 663 voted yesterday.
:44:11. > :44:16.Around that figure. You were elected on 30% turnout? Tom Eliot
:44:16. > :44:20.had 930 turnout. The it is down. That was a Wednesday night and
:44:20. > :44:26.people had not paid their subscriptions this year and over
:44:26. > :44:30.100 people turned up who did not have a vote. The new people you're
:44:30. > :44:35.talking about, if you cannot motivate those party members across
:44:35. > :44:40.Northern Ireland, to come to Belfast and vote for you, it isn't
:44:40. > :44:44.that decisive, he won in terms of the people who were there. 1400
:44:44. > :44:48.people stayed at home. If you want to say to the members of the party
:44:48. > :44:52.that what happened yesterday was not good enough, do that, but I am
:44:52. > :44:58.happy. When it comes to the education committee and what you
:44:58. > :45:02.will do in the future, when you step down? I do anticipate that.
:45:02. > :45:06.When you see yourself as being bigger and Minister? Not in the
:45:06. > :45:11.short term but I would anticipate going in before the next election,
:45:11. > :45:15.it would be good for the leader to be in the executive but that is a
:45:15. > :45:19.very long way down the line and there is plenty of movement and
:45:19. > :45:23.objectives to accomplish between now and then. World Danny Kennedy
:45:23. > :45:28.stay? He will be the first person to know the answer to that.
:45:28. > :45:33.have not told them, but you will not say that he will stay? He will
:45:33. > :45:39.be the first to know. When it comes to Unionist unity, during the
:45:39. > :45:43.campaign you commented to the Newsletter there was a soft No two
:45:43. > :45:48.Unionist unity in terms of electoral pacts. But you said
:45:48. > :45:52.yesterday that there is no such thing as Unionist unity. Are you
:45:52. > :45:59.finally saying, we are the Ulster Unionist Party, we are not the DUP
:45:59. > :46:02.and there will be no arrangements at elections. We are. I said after
:46:02. > :46:07.the Westminster election, when we had the alliance with the
:46:07. > :46:11.Conservative Party, that in future we would always stand as the Ulster
:46:11. > :46:17.Unionists, with our own name and believes, and that is where it is.
:46:17. > :46:21.In politics, never say never, but I cannot imagine any circumstances
:46:21. > :46:26.when it would be good for the party and pro-Union people and for
:46:26. > :46:32.politics to have an electoral pact. He said yesterday you wanted
:46:32. > :46:37.electoral success. Which suits could you possibly win back? If you
:46:37. > :46:41.had given the near 600 people who turned up a blank sheet they would
:46:41. > :46:45.have written down Upper Bann and South Antrim for Westminster.
:46:45. > :46:48.woes are the top priorities? would say those other seats that
:46:48. > :46:53.you would are automatically say would be topping the list to look
:46:53. > :46:59.at. I have not started doing that, I have a lot of things to do. I am
:46:59. > :47:03.concerned about the cohesion of the party, yesterday with 81% going for
:47:03. > :47:10.one vision. There is huge cohesion. We will build on that and move into
:47:10. > :47:14.coherence and the message. And look at enhancing the European vote and
:47:14. > :47:19.what to do after local government, what we will target to get more
:47:19. > :47:23.councillors. Liam Clarke, it is interesting the distinction between
:47:23. > :47:29.the DUP and the Ulster Unionists. Is there any point in the Ulster
:47:29. > :47:35.Unionist Party now? That is what might have to struggle to establish.
:47:35. > :47:41.He did say in an interview when a speech by Peter Robinson was quoted
:47:41. > :47:48.to him, he thought he might have said that himself. The UUP are on
:47:48. > :47:52.the DUP ground, can Carson -- it is sometimes hard to see any
:47:52. > :47:56.distinction. There is bad blood between the parties but I do not
:47:56. > :48:03.know that you will get any distinct message to the voter. I was struck
:48:03. > :48:10.by Mike saying that the party was like a business. And prop it was
:48:11. > :48:15.par. I do not know if that conveys any great distinction from the DUP.
:48:15. > :48:20.What I'm saying is that you can have the best policies but if you
:48:20. > :48:24.don't have control of the leaders, what is the point? I want our party
:48:24. > :48:28.to serve the people but you need to be in government. When you go to
:48:28. > :48:31.the doors coming to the next election, when you say that I want
:48:32. > :48:37.you to vote for me, you have to have something different to offer.
:48:37. > :48:42.If you go back to Tony Blair in 1927, they would do the health
:48:42. > :48:49.service differently and cut red tape. You must have policies? --
:48:49. > :48:53.1997. When he was that my position, 24 hours into the job, he said this
:48:53. > :49:00.party was not fit to govern and we have to take a party that people
:49:00. > :49:04.believe isn't electable and make it electable. It is about politics and
:49:04. > :49:10.also organisation and we need better policies and communicators
:49:10. > :49:14.but better organisation and better resources. When I first announced
:49:14. > :49:18.they were standing for Westminster, the first blog that I read was Mike
:49:18. > :49:22.Nesbitt could turn out to be a good politician but that does not matter.
:49:22. > :49:27.We don't know who the DUP will put up against him and that doesn't
:49:27. > :49:32.matter, he will not win because the DUP have a better electoral machine.
:49:32. > :49:37.And they did win. That is the bottom line? It is knocking on
:49:37. > :49:42.doors and getting members and councillors into the grass roots?
:49:42. > :49:48.The UUP has lost touch with a lot of people, particularly end less
:49:48. > :49:51.well-off constituencies. A recent report highlighted the low
:49:51. > :49:56.educational attainment rates in Unionist working-class areas, for
:49:56. > :50:00.example. There is a huge challenge. And maybe you would need to put
:50:00. > :50:05.forward some distinctive policies to address particular issues like
:50:05. > :50:09.that. Another question that came to my mind is that you mentioned
:50:09. > :50:12.yesterday looking across the water at Scotland, England and Wales and
:50:12. > :50:17.of course one of the great questions emerging is the future of
:50:17. > :50:22.the Union. There is a great challenge for you in showing how
:50:22. > :50:27.Ulster Unionism can relate to that debate, particularly around the
:50:28. > :50:31.Scottish question and the question of any referendum in Scotland.
:50:31. > :50:37.will you campaign in terms of? Leave the Scots to make up their
:50:37. > :50:42.own mind? The if I take that first point, there was a radio debate
:50:42. > :50:46.about how we have not delivered on social justice since 1998. I grew
:50:46. > :50:50.up in leafy suburbs in North and East Belfast and that been
:50:50. > :50:55.relatively easy for me to be here today. If I was born one mile down
:50:55. > :50:59.the road, closer to the city centre, you might never have heard of me.
:50:59. > :51:04.What I am thinking as we are not connected and what any to do is
:51:04. > :51:07.find a family who will adopt me for 24 hours and live in an area of
:51:07. > :51:11.social deprivation because they think it is important to get some
:51:11. > :51:15.feel for what it is like. The last two weeks, we have been debating
:51:15. > :51:20.about whether we should be in or out of government at Stormont,
:51:20. > :51:24.Stormont isn't relevant to a lot of people and there is a big debate on
:51:24. > :51:28.the future of the union and there has not been any better time to
:51:28. > :51:32.debate the benefits of the UK and we have to get out there and
:51:32. > :51:42.promote that. Not just across Northern Ireland but into Scotland
:51:42. > :51:44.
:51:44. > :51:46.and Wales and particularly into England. Thank you all very much.
:51:46. > :51:49.What have England, Scotland and Wales got that we haven't?
:51:49. > :51:52.Enterprise zones, for a start. The Chancellor revived the scheme last
:51:52. > :51:55.year in a bid to boost economic development across the UK. So why
:51:55. > :52:05.hasn't the Executive asked the Treasury for money to set them up
:52:05. > :52:09.
:52:09. > :52:13.here? Yvette Shapiro has been London's Canary Wharf is the most
:52:13. > :52:17.successful of the 40 enterprise zones set up across the UK in the
:52:17. > :52:23.1980s. Companies locating in North Belfast's Duncrue Industrial Estate
:52:23. > :52:28.30 years ago got a rates exemption and other incentives. One of those
:52:28. > :52:33.attracted to the area was this major sportswear retailer. Units
:52:34. > :52:37.went very quickly in those days, the late '80s and early '90s. The
:52:37. > :52:41.rates holiday was up until the mid '90s so people wanted to take
:52:41. > :52:44.advantage of this and the area grew very quickly. Most people who
:52:44. > :52:49.located here have been successful. We've been here for almost 25 years.
:52:49. > :52:51.We started here, we grew here and we intend to stay here. Economist
:52:51. > :52:57.John Simpson watched the development of the zones in Belfast
:52:57. > :53:00.and Derry. Those enterprise zones of the 1980s had the effect When we
:53:00. > :53:07.look back on it, what they did was they shifted business from one part
:53:07. > :53:12.of the city to another. They moved business rather than brought in new
:53:12. > :53:15.business so they weren't really deemed to be a success. There may
:53:15. > :53:18.be mixed views, but the Tories have revived this Thatcherite idea,
:53:18. > :53:25.offering tax breaks, rates holidays and speedier planning approval for
:53:25. > :53:31.firms locating in enterprise zones. 24 enterprise zones are going ahead
:53:31. > :53:34.across England. We look forward to the first in Northern Ireland.
:53:34. > :53:37.There has been much more rapid progress in England, Scotland and
:53:37. > :53:40.Wales on enterprise zones and I think some of these ideas could
:53:40. > :53:43.apply to Northern Ireland. We should try to use every tool in the
:53:43. > :53:46.box but it's very much a devolved responsibility as to whether to go
:53:46. > :53:48.ahead. This has been on offer since the budget last year. Privately,
:53:49. > :53:51.Northern Ireland Office officials say they're surprised that the
:53:51. > :53:56.Executive has not sought funding for enterprise zones in Northern
:53:56. > :54:06.Ireland. But local ministers are currently locked in talks, not only
:54:06. > :54:11.on reducing corporation tax but on a looming economic problem. Under
:54:11. > :54:14.current rules, companies that want to expand in Northern Ireland can
:54:14. > :54:20.receive grants from Invest Northern Ireland. Because the province has
:54:20. > :54:25.what is called 100% status for regional aid. But under proposals
:54:25. > :54:29.from Vince Cable, that could be removed. Meaning that only
:54:29. > :54:32.companies based in economically deprived areas of Northern Ireland
:54:32. > :54:38.will receive financial assistance. The minister says the time is not
:54:38. > :54:41.yet right to set up enterprise zones here. The Treasury came
:54:41. > :54:45.forward to say they will give us the power to vary capital
:54:45. > :54:48.allowances in certain zones and that would be great, we will use
:54:48. > :54:53.that money, but we cannot do that at present because we do not know
:54:53. > :54:57.what the story is in relation to the regional picture so it is like
:54:57. > :55:00.the chicken and the egg. That is why we have been pushing the
:55:01. > :55:04.Treasury hard to make some decisions in relation to
:55:04. > :55:07.rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy. What will they do about
:55:07. > :55:11.Corporation Tax? But some of the key business organisations are more
:55:11. > :55:13.in tune with the Secretary of State on this issue, urging the Executive
:55:13. > :55:19.to explore the possibilities. need a number of micro enterprise
:55:19. > :55:23.zones. To redress the economic imbalance of Northern Ireland,
:55:23. > :55:28.particularly West of the River Bann with many areas effectively star at
:55:28. > :55:33.other investment for quite a very long period of time. It can also be
:55:33. > :55:40.applied to helping regenerate town and city centres. It is important,
:55:40. > :55:43.it is some time when it to focus on in terms of having enterprise zones.
:55:43. > :55:46.It's the traditional cry of a leader in waiting. I will deliver.
:55:46. > :55:49.And, as it turned out, John McCallister did, though not the way
:55:49. > :55:55.he expected to. Here's Stephen Walker's political week in 60
:55:55. > :56:03.seconds. Health grabbed the headlines with a call for the
:56:03. > :56:07.minister to become a political casualty. His head should roll. He
:56:07. > :56:17.is the person who has not delivered. But he stayed put and instead took
:56:17. > :56:17.
:56:17. > :56:23.a swipe at the Alliance Party. McCartney, in true star, dead be
:56:23. > :56:30.here for a very opportunistic way. -- did be here. Political geography
:56:30. > :56:36.got MLAs excited, with some unexpected language. He did not win
:56:36. > :56:39.the occupied Six Counties?! Ballycastle said goodbye to horses.
:56:39. > :56:42.The UUP said cheerio to David McNarry for nine months. John
:56:42. > :56:50.McAllister's nine-month wait was over as he delivered a very young
:56:50. > :57:00.unionist. The baby arrived into my arms. There was a beautiful moment.
:57:00. > :57:02.
:57:02. > :57:06.100 years on, we remembered our most famous ship. Just one final
:57:06. > :57:11.word. Interesting, some of the points that Mike Nesbitt put
:57:11. > :57:17.forward. His Danny Kennedy out of his job? He signalled that he isn't
:57:17. > :57:22.sure. He has to think about it. I do fear that Mike Nesbitt isn't
:57:22. > :57:28.very keen on this idea of DUP ministers attending the DUP