04/03/2018

0:00:37 > 0:00:38Morning, everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

0:00:38 > 0:00:40I'm Sarah Smith.

0:00:40 > 0:00:42And this is the programme that will provide your essential briefing

0:00:42 > 0:00:44on everything that's moving and shaking in the

0:00:44 > 0:00:46world of politics.

0:00:46 > 0:00:52Theresa May's big Brexit speech appears to have done the impossible

0:00:52 > 0:00:54and united both sides of her party for the time being

0:00:54 > 0:00:56but is the devil in the detail?

0:00:56 > 0:01:00We'll get the verdicts of former Tory leader and Brexit supporter

0:01:00 > 0:01:03Lord Howard and leading backbencher and Remain campaigner Nicky Morgan,

0:01:03 > 0:01:07and ask if they can really both be happy.

0:01:07 > 0:01:13Away from Brexit, the Government yet again promises to take on the Nimbys

0:01:13 > 0:01:16and build more houses where we need them most.

0:01:16 > 0:01:17And coming up here:

0:01:17 > 0:01:20The Prime Minister has put are some meat on the bones of how to solve

0:01:20 > 0:01:22the problem of the Irish border, but not everyone

0:01:22 > 0:01:25is happy with her plans.

0:01:34 > 0:01:39All that coming up in the programme.

0:01:39 > 0:01:43And with me today, I've got three hardy souls who've struggled

0:01:43 > 0:01:46through the harsh conditions to help me to make sense of all

0:01:46 > 0:01:48the big stories - Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards and Anushka Asthana.

0:01:48 > 0:01:51Well, it was as week where politics was often given second billing

0:01:51 > 0:01:54to the weather, with people up and down the country battling

0:01:54 > 0:01:55the Beast from the East.

0:01:55 > 0:01:58But snow or not, Theresa May had her crucial Brexit speech to give,

0:01:58 > 0:02:06and she had a few big beasts herself to contend with.

0:02:08 > 0:02:12Forget the weather, the UK faced a Brexit blizzard this week.

0:02:12 > 0:02:15On Monday, Jeremy Corbyn offered up a clear dividing line between Labour

0:02:15 > 0:02:16and the Conservatives.

0:02:16 > 0:02:24Labour would keep Britain in a customs union with the EU.

0:02:25 > 0:02:27Labour would seek to negotiate a new, comprehensive UK EU customs

0:02:27 > 0:02:30union to ensure there are no tariffs with Europe.

0:02:30 > 0:02:32On Tuesday, international trade secretary Liam Fox

0:02:32 > 0:02:33immediately hit back.

0:02:33 > 0:02:35It would be a complete sell-out of Britain's national interest

0:02:35 > 0:02:40and a betrayal of the voters in the referendum.

0:02:40 > 0:02:45But his speech was overshadowed by a warning shot from the former

0:02:45 > 0:02:47boss of his own department - Sir Martin Donnelly said leaving

0:02:47 > 0:02:50the single market and the customs union would risk the UK

0:02:50 > 0:02:51going from feast to famine.

0:02:51 > 0:02:55It's like giving up a three course meal for a packet of crisps.

0:02:55 > 0:02:58Also on Tuesday, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson took to the radio

0:02:58 > 0:03:02waves to try to ease tensions on Northern Ireland after Brexit.

0:03:02 > 0:03:04He wasn't entirely persuasive.

0:03:04 > 0:03:07There's no border between Camden and Westminster.

0:03:07 > 0:03:12You can't compare two boroughs of London with the kind

0:03:12 > 0:03:14of difference in the arrangements that would be in place after Brexit

0:03:14 > 0:03:16between the UK and the EU.

0:03:16 > 0:03:20I think it's a very relevant comparison.

0:03:20 > 0:03:22On Wednesday, former Prime Minister Sir John Major said

0:03:22 > 0:03:26MPs should be given a free vote on the final Brexit deal.

0:03:26 > 0:03:34So let Parliament decide or put the issue back to the people.

0:03:37 > 0:03:39And the EU Commission published the first legal draft

0:03:39 > 0:03:40of the UK's exit treaty.

0:03:40 > 0:03:41The proposals were controversial.

0:03:41 > 0:03:43To avoid a hard border, Northern Ireland must stay

0:03:43 > 0:03:46in the customs union if all else fails.

0:03:46 > 0:03:50Theresa May was having none of it.

0:03:50 > 0:03:55No UK Prime Minister could ever agree to it.

0:03:55 > 0:03:59On Thursday, diplomatic niceties with the European Council

0:03:59 > 0:04:01President Donald Tusk, as he got a preview of the Prime

0:04:01 > 0:04:05Minister's big Brexit speech.

0:04:05 > 0:04:09But the real test would come later, when she would need a lot

0:04:09 > 0:04:14of grit to keep all members of her own party onside.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16The big day arrived, and with it some hard truths.

0:04:16 > 0:04:18We are leaving the single market.

0:04:18 > 0:04:19Life is going to be different.

0:04:19 > 0:04:22In certain ways, our access to each other's markets will be

0:04:22 > 0:04:23less than it is now.

0:04:23 > 0:04:25Even after we have left the jurisdiction

0:04:25 > 0:04:28of the European Court of Justice, EU law and the decisions of the ECJ

0:04:28 > 0:04:34will continue to affect us.

0:04:34 > 0:04:37This was also a pitch for a pick and mix Brexit.

0:04:37 > 0:04:39She said all EU trade deals are tailor-made and what Britain

0:04:39 > 0:04:41wants is no different.

0:04:41 > 0:04:43If this is cherry picking, then every trade arrangement

0:04:43 > 0:04:47is cherry picking.

0:04:47 > 0:04:50He was happy, and so was he.

0:04:50 > 0:04:54Despite being stranded and left out in the cold.

0:04:54 > 0:04:57So, has the Prime Minister managed to thaw the tensions

0:04:57 > 0:04:58between her Cabinet on Brexit?

0:04:58 > 0:05:04Time will tell.

0:05:04 > 0:05:09There is more than enough to chew over with our expert panel who will

0:05:09 > 0:05:16tell us what's been going on behind the scenes this week. Anushka, we

0:05:16 > 0:05:21asked the question, has she achieved the impossible and United warring

0:05:21 > 0:05:26factions of the Conservative Party over Brexit? It looks that way, will

0:05:26 > 0:05:31it stay that way?It is impressive politically that your guests will

0:05:31 > 0:05:34both have some praise for the speech but it doesn't mean they agree with

0:05:34 > 0:05:38each other when it comes to Brexit. I'm sure there's a lot they continue

0:05:38 > 0:05:44to disagree about. She managed to do that by doubling down on the red

0:05:44 > 0:05:47lines she already had but saying beyond that we will try to get as

0:05:47 > 0:05:53close as we can to the EU. I don't think the Brexiteers are totally

0:05:53 > 0:05:57happy, they see this as a staging post and happy that what she said

0:05:57 > 0:06:02future parliaments can change it. She has done a magic trick now but

0:06:02 > 0:06:06trouble ahead still.Isabel, a lot of it was how in the immediate

0:06:06 > 0:06:12future we will stay tangibly similar to EU rules and regulations, that

0:06:12 > 0:06:17won't hold with the Brexiteer crowd, will it?Only an idiot would predict

0:06:17 > 0:06:25peace and harmony within the Tory party for more than a few days.

0:06:28 > 0:06:31party for more than a few days. I think they recognise the immense

0:06:31 > 0:06:34discipline the Prime Minister injected into the speech, in some

0:06:34 > 0:06:38ways that means bits of it don't please everybody. There was

0:06:38 > 0:06:42frustration at the way she handled some of the questions afterwards.

0:06:42 > 0:06:47Some would have liked her, for example Nigel Farage, outside of the

0:06:47 > 0:06:51party of course, would have liked her to be more explicit that no deal

0:06:51 > 0:06:56remains an option. On the other hand, had she said that, that is

0:06:56 > 0:07:02provocative. I think Tory MPs found she struck a balance and a great

0:07:02 > 0:07:08feeling of positivity this weekend, maybe not next.Steve, did it tell

0:07:08 > 0:07:13us a huge amount about what Brexit deal might look like? Or is Theresa

0:07:13 > 0:07:18May sitting on the fence about what the future deal will be?I don't

0:07:18 > 0:07:23think she is sitting on the fence. She gave a clear idea of what she

0:07:23 > 0:07:29envisages it to be. Watching it, and reading it several times, I have

0:07:29 > 0:07:32reached the conclusion that she is the only person that can lead this

0:07:32 > 0:07:42party.

0:07:43 > 0:07:46You have Michael Howard on in a minute, you knows how difficult it

0:07:46 > 0:07:49is to do. She can do it and I think they would be daft to get rid of

0:07:49 > 0:07:52her. However, having read the speech, it is full of unexploded

0:07:52 > 0:07:54bombs metaphorically speaking. Like the budgets that go down well on the

0:07:54 > 0:07:59day and then turn out to have hidden bombs, I think this one does. In her

0:07:59 > 0:08:04admission we are giving up things, we won't have the same market

0:08:04 > 0:08:08access, in saying we have given up passporting for the financial

0:08:08 > 0:08:12services already. She did it to show we weren't having our cake and

0:08:12 > 0:08:17eating it, she was honest, but it is depressing to have that candour

0:08:17 > 0:08:21explained so clearly. And in explaining we will be fully aligned

0:08:21 > 0:08:28with the EU in many ways but have the right to diverged even if it is

0:08:28 > 0:08:32against our interest. And the all of this, to have the right to diverge

0:08:32 > 0:08:37at a future date seems fraught with difficulty. I see problems down

0:08:37 > 0:08:44road.Steve's point about only this Prime Minister can lead the party is

0:08:44 > 0:08:47a very astute one and that's what I'm picking up this weekend, even

0:08:47 > 0:08:53from those who have been her harshest critics, at her ability not

0:08:53 > 0:08:56to say too much which makes her seem rather boring at times is precisely

0:08:56 > 0:09:02the reason she can manage these delicate factions. I definitely feel

0:09:02 > 0:09:06time has run out now for those who would like to have seen her gone

0:09:06 > 0:09:12well before Brexit next year. I feel that has evaporated milk. We might

0:09:12 > 0:09:17be in a different place in a few months but I would suspect not.

0:09:17 > 0:09:22Anushka bitchy answer the question about the border between the

0:09:22 > 0:09:30Republic and Northern Ireland? Simon Coveney said he's not sure the EU

0:09:30 > 0:09:34can support the plan she came up with.Both sides can smile and say

0:09:34 > 0:09:38they don't want a border, the question is how you achieve that.

0:09:38 > 0:09:43The Government have put forward these options, a customs partnership

0:09:43 > 0:09:47which is a slightly weird system under which there would be checks on

0:09:47 > 0:09:50the UK border that would then be acceptable for the rest of the EU.

0:09:50 > 0:09:55The problem is the rest of the EU have suggested that won't be

0:09:55 > 0:09:58acceptable to them, and even very senior figures in Government around

0:09:58 > 0:10:03the Cabinet table have told me they think it is a completely unrealistic

0:10:03 > 0:10:08option. The second option is to use technology to make it flow freely,

0:10:08 > 0:10:15perhaps not quite as Boris

0:10:15 > 0:10:16perhaps not quite as Boris Johnson was suggesting, it happens in the

0:10:16 > 0:10:18congestion charge in London. He was slightly mocked for those comments,

0:10:18 > 0:10:22but can there be a way to make it softer in that way? Perhaps there

0:10:22 > 0:10:26can but there is no evidence you would end up with no border. Then

0:10:26 > 0:10:30there's that tricky situation of the EU saying the backstop is Northern

0:10:30 > 0:10:35Ireland stays in the customs union, and the Prime Minister says that is

0:10:35 > 0:10:40unacceptable.Thank you for that, stay with us.

0:10:40 > 0:10:42Theresa May was on the Andrew Marr Show this

0:10:42 > 0:10:45morning, and she was asked how the UK's rules and regulations

0:10:45 > 0:10:47might move away from the EU's in the future.

0:10:47 > 0:10:55Parliament will be able to take decisions about the rules that

0:10:59 > 0:11:01are set, so in the circumstances in which the EU

0:11:01 > 0:11:03change a particular rule, there'd be a decision

0:11:03 > 0:11:04for us to take.

0:11:04 > 0:11:07Did we accept it in the future or not?

0:11:07 > 0:11:09But if we didn't accept it, there'd be an arbitration mechanism,

0:11:09 > 0:11:10an independent arbitration mechanism, so people

0:11:10 > 0:11:13would look at it and say, actually, you know what,

0:11:13 > 0:11:15if the UK doesn't accept that, does it make any difference

0:11:15 > 0:11:16to the trading relationship?

0:11:16 > 0:11:19And they might say no, it doesn't, so there's no consequence.

0:11:19 > 0:11:22They might say yes, it does, and so there would be a consequence.

0:11:22 > 0:11:24So you're saying we might lose market access -

0:11:24 > 0:11:26the more we diverge, the more market access

0:11:26 > 0:11:28we might lose in the future.

0:11:28 > 0:11:29There'd be a decision to be taken.

0:11:29 > 0:11:31Joining me now from Loughborough is the former

0:11:31 > 0:11:34Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, who put her name down on a Commons

0:11:34 > 0:11:37amendment that calls for the UK to participate in a customs union

0:11:37 > 0:11:39with the EU after Brexit.

0:11:39 > 0:11:47Good morning. So you heard the Prime Minister ruling out a customs union

0:11:47 > 0:11:52which is what you say you want, and they will be less access to EU

0:11:52 > 0:11:57markets in future, you cannot be very happy with this speech, can

0:11:57 > 0:12:01you?I thought it was a very realistic speech that set out the

0:12:01 > 0:12:06compromises and hard facts we have to face, and I think it was a

0:12:06 > 0:12:09welcome dose of realism. That's why I think it has been welcomed from

0:12:09 > 0:12:12people on all sides of the debate because we can get away from

0:12:12 > 0:12:16pretending things will stay the same, that we can have the same

0:12:16 > 0:12:21benefits, and be honest with ourselves and our constituents about

0:12:21 > 0:12:30what that means. The reason MPs put down amendments is to get ministers

0:12:30 > 0:12:33to explain their position is more fully and that's what we began to

0:12:33 > 0:12:38see in the Prime Minister's speech on this issue of the border between

0:12:38 > 0:12:42Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland on Friday. The Prime

0:12:42 > 0:12:45Minister could not have been more clear this morning and last week

0:12:45 > 0:12:49that she does not want to see a hard border between them, and that's

0:12:49 > 0:12:54where we are as well. I think there are more discussions to come about

0:12:54 > 0:13:00the two options, as Anushka was setting out, that the Prime Minister

0:13:00 > 0:13:03outlined, and we will have to see what happens when the bill comes

0:13:03 > 0:13:06back to the House of Commons.Your amendment wasn't just about Northern

0:13:06 > 0:13:12Ireland, it said you want the UK to stay in the customs union with the

0:13:12 > 0:13:16EU. Now you say you want to talk to the Prime Minister about this. Talk

0:13:16 > 0:13:21about what? We are either in the customs union or knots and her

0:13:21 > 0:13:27speech made it clear she didn't want a customs union.I can speak for

0:13:27 > 0:13:31myself and my colleagues, many of whom put their name down, it was

0:13:31 > 0:13:35about the Irish border issue because many of us got to the stage of

0:13:35 > 0:13:41thinking how can this be resolved without being in a customs union. I

0:13:41 > 0:13:45think many of us don't care what it is called, it's a question of what

0:13:45 > 0:13:50it does. Does it avoid a hard border and small traders having to make

0:13:50 > 0:13:57declarations each time they crossed the border? I was a Treasury duties

0:13:57 > 0:14:00minister, I visited the Irish border and it is 300 miles of incredibly

0:14:00 > 0:14:05porous countryside basically. People are crossing it everyday for work,

0:14:05 > 0:14:10for trading, and it's not just about the economics, it's about the

0:14:10 > 0:14:19cultural and political significance of not a hard border.The Irish

0:14:19 > 0:14:21government and Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney were saying

0:14:21 > 0:14:25this morning he didn't think EU would accept this. Theresa May said

0:14:25 > 0:14:28a long she doesn't want a hard border, just saying that doesn't

0:14:28 > 0:14:33mean it won't happen and the EU don't seem satisfied with what she

0:14:33 > 0:14:39laid out as a possible solution.The first point is, as I said in a tweet

0:14:39 > 0:14:44on Friday, the EU cannot say and Simon Coveney recognise that this

0:14:44 > 0:14:48morning, the EU cannot say it doesn't know what the UK Government

0:14:48 > 0:14:55wants. Simon Coveney also agreed, as the Prime Minister rightly set out,

0:14:55 > 0:14:58this is a problem that has been created by Brexit and it's up to the

0:14:58 > 0:15:02UK Government, the EU and Irish government to work together to find

0:15:02 > 0:15:06a solution. I think it is right that talks will continue in one of those

0:15:06 > 0:15:10areas where it is best for the Irish government and UK Government to be

0:15:10 > 0:15:15talking directly because at the moment what's been remarkable is how

0:15:15 > 0:15:18cohesive the 27 have been in negotiating through the commission

0:15:18 > 0:15:25but there may be ways to speed up discussions, particularly on the

0:15:25 > 0:15:28Irish border issue. What we saw on Friday is the Prime Minister saying

0:15:28 > 0:15:31there's difficult things ahead. People won't remember ultimately the

0:15:31 > 0:15:36negotiations, they will remember the enduring deal that's struck, that

0:15:36 > 0:15:41puts livelihoods and economic security first.

0:15:41 > 0:15:46One of the hard fact is that she laid out is we will have less access

0:15:46 > 0:15:49to EU markets. That is one of the things that you as a Remainer have

0:15:49 > 0:15:53been worried about. Maybe she is being pragmatic and you're welcome

0:15:53 > 0:15:56that, but is that pragmatism not admitting were going to be worse off

0:15:56 > 0:16:03in future as a result of this?I think it probably is. Actually,

0:16:03 > 0:16:08while the speech was well come in its towns, it did set out some of

0:16:08 > 0:16:12these hard truths. Some people have said, nothing will change, it will

0:16:12 > 0:16:16have exactly the same benefits but that is not the case. I am chair of

0:16:16 > 0:16:21the Treasury Select Committee, we look at financial services. That

0:16:21 > 0:16:25industry understands that things are going to change. The Prime Minister

0:16:25 > 0:16:30was clear, no more passporting. People have reconciled themselves to

0:16:30 > 0:16:35this in the city. What next? The Prime Minister is talking about

0:16:35 > 0:16:40mutual recognition of regulations, that is the way to go, that is

0:16:40 > 0:16:43achievable, but this is the start of negotiations and it is a long way to

0:16:43 > 0:16:49go. At least we are now on the starting blocks. Your right to say

0:16:49 > 0:16:54that many of us have been concerned about the prosperity and livelihoods

0:16:54 > 0:16:57of people in our constituencies and our businesses. We welcome this

0:16:57 > 0:17:01speech but we will continue to watch out for any drifting backwards

0:17:01 > 0:17:07towards some kind of idea logically driven hard Brexit. That does not

0:17:07 > 0:17:11benefit anybody. As the Prime Minister said on Friday, reverting

0:17:11 > 0:17:17to WTO is not a good outcome that will benefit people in this country.

0:17:17 > 0:17:20The Prime Minister made clear that the UK after Brexit can choose to

0:17:20 > 0:17:24stay aligned with the rules and regulations of the EU or future

0:17:24 > 0:17:28parliaments to choose to diverged. In those circumstances you will be

0:17:28 > 0:17:33fighting every step of the week to try to stay aligned with the EU, I

0:17:33 > 0:17:38take it?Not necessarily. That was a really well come statement from the

0:17:38 > 0:17:41Prime Minister. It is for the sovereign parliament to be making

0:17:41 > 0:17:45these decisions in future, which is why we had the debate over the

0:17:45 > 0:17:49amendment in December because ultimately it should be sovereign

0:17:49 > 0:17:54Parliament that makes these key decisions in the future. In terms of

0:17:54 > 0:17:57divergences regulation, there may well be good arguments in the future

0:17:57 > 0:18:02by businesses and industry say, we do not need to be aligned with that

0:18:02 > 0:18:05regulation, because there is a higher international standard that

0:18:05 > 0:18:09we can all get around and following that will benefit our businesses.

0:18:09 > 0:18:14The point is, at the moment, Parliament will take decisions about

0:18:14 > 0:18:19things on the basis of listening to constituents, and that is what will

0:18:19 > 0:18:23happen in the future. That is welcome. Financial services, that is

0:18:23 > 0:18:27the message we're getting by, there are some international standards,

0:18:27 > 0:18:32which is what business already comply with, higher standards than

0:18:32 > 0:18:37the EU, and that is what businesses want to on complying with.Nicky

0:18:37 > 0:18:39Morgan, thank you for talking to us.

0:18:39 > 0:18:41Listening to that is the former Conservative leader Lord Howard,

0:18:41 > 0:18:43who campaigned for Britain to leave the EU.

0:18:43 > 0:18:47You were nodding away in agreement with Nicky Morgan all the way

0:18:47 > 0:18:50through that interview. Not something we thought we were going

0:18:50 > 0:18:54to see happen in the studio.You agree with her? I agree with very

0:18:54 > 0:18:58much of what she said and I am delighted to be able to agree with

0:18:58 > 0:19:03her. Can I just say this about the speech on Friday, I thought it

0:19:03 > 0:19:08should the Prime Minister at her best, cam, patient, disciplined.

0:19:08 > 0:19:14That is exactly the kind of approach we need in these negotiations. I

0:19:14 > 0:19:18think Steve Richards was right when he said she is the only person who

0:19:18 > 0:19:22can lead the country through these negotiations, and she showed her

0:19:22 > 0:19:29qualities on Friday, and I think it was an excellent speech, and it is

0:19:29 > 0:19:33something, of course it is a good thing from my point of view that it

0:19:33 > 0:19:36seems to have united the Conservative Party, but more

0:19:36 > 0:19:41importantly, I think it has united the country. I think everyone in the

0:19:41 > 0:19:46country, except perhaps those few people are neither extreme, can

0:19:46 > 0:19:52rally round. People like John Major and Tony Blair? I fear that on this

0:19:52 > 0:19:55issue John Major and Tony Blair are to make love the people who have

0:19:55 > 0:19:59never been able to reconcile themselves to the results of the

0:19:59 > 0:20:04referendum. I think a large majority of people in the country, even of

0:20:04 > 0:20:09those who voted Remain, they now say, let's get on with it and see

0:20:09 > 0:20:13what we can get out of these negotiations. Nicky Morgan was

0:20:13 > 0:20:17absolutely right when she said that in years to come people will not be

0:20:17 > 0:20:21looking back at the negotiations. They will be looking back at the

0:20:21 > 0:20:25outcome.The negotiations matter because they determine the outcome.

0:20:25 > 0:20:30You like the tone of the speech. When you look at the detail, does it

0:20:30 > 0:20:33really amounted taking back control when the Prime Minister says the UK

0:20:33 > 0:20:37will need to make a strong commitment that regulatory standards

0:20:37 > 0:20:41will remain as high as the EU and in practice they will remain similar in

0:20:41 > 0:20:46the future?That is not what you campaign for. In many respects they

0:20:46 > 0:20:49will be similar. As the Prime Minister said this morning, on the

0:20:49 > 0:20:55Andrew Marr programme, these regulations are not EU regulations,

0:20:55 > 0:21:01the international regulations. The crucial thing is that our sovereign

0:21:01 > 0:21:05parliament, in future, will be able to decide whether we remain in a

0:21:05 > 0:21:10layman, which in many cases would be a sensible thing to do, or whether

0:21:10 > 0:21:14we diverged, which could also be sensible. That is what taking back

0:21:14 > 0:21:18control means.The sovereign parliament will decide. Look at

0:21:18 > 0:21:22where we do remain in alignment and a hard fact that Theresa May picked

0:21:22 > 0:21:26out there, in order to maintain access we may have to maintain a

0:21:26 > 0:21:30layman. The EU will change their rules over the next few deals --

0:21:30 > 0:21:34over the next few years. We will end up having to mirror rules that we

0:21:34 > 0:21:39had no say at all in making if we want to maintain access.That is not

0:21:39 > 0:21:45control. We will be able to decide. In some cases it may be sensible to

0:21:45 > 0:21:48change rules to remain in alignment with the European Union's rules but

0:21:48 > 0:21:55in other cases it will not be, and we will be able to decide. That is

0:21:55 > 0:21:58what taking back control means. You're perfectly happy with

0:21:58 > 0:22:03associated membership of some of the EU agencies, medicine, chemicals,

0:22:03 > 0:22:11the aviation safety agency, and with paying a fee to be -- to be a

0:22:11 > 0:22:15member. Very sensible. A year ago you would not have been telling us

0:22:15 > 0:22:21that you wanted to stay a member of any of these agents is a tall.You

0:22:21 > 0:22:25never ask me. You would have been surprised by the answer. These are

0:22:25 > 0:22:28sensible, practical arrangements that we benefit from, and the EU

0:22:28 > 0:22:33benefits.It is sensible. We were promised famously by David Davis

0:22:33 > 0:22:37that we would have the exact same benefits of being in the customs

0:22:37 > 0:22:42union and the single market after Brexit. The Prime Minister herself

0:22:42 > 0:22:47said something similar. Now she's telling us we will have less access.

0:22:47 > 0:22:51When people were told we could leave the EU and maintain the same

0:22:51 > 0:22:55benefits, were they being lied to? Not at all. I think it is a

0:22:55 > 0:22:59consequence of what the Prime Minister has said, that in all

0:22:59 > 0:23:03important respects, we will have the access we need. There may be some

0:23:03 > 0:23:07areas where that will not be the case, but she dealt with the most

0:23:07 > 0:23:10important aspect in her speech on Friday and should have in the most

0:23:10 > 0:23:16important areas we will be able to have access. I think that will be

0:23:16 > 0:23:19the outcome. It is in the interests of the European Union as well as

0:23:19 > 0:23:24ourselves that that should be so. They want access to our large

0:23:24 > 0:23:28market. We are one of the six biggest economies in the world. They

0:23:28 > 0:23:32want access to our markets. It will be on both our interest to reach

0:23:32 > 0:23:37that sort of agreement.Both wings of the Tory party might be happy

0:23:37 > 0:23:41with this. The speech was received less enthusiastically in Brussels.

0:23:41 > 0:23:45The EU will publish their draft guidelines on how they see a future

0:23:45 > 0:23:49deal on Tuesday. If they do not accept the approach that Theresa May

0:23:49 > 0:23:54has laid out, what should she do next?Let's concentrate on the

0:23:54 > 0:23:59positives. We are in a negotiation. There will inevitably be posturing

0:23:59 > 0:24:03by the European Union in the course of these negotiations. That is what

0:24:03 > 0:24:09negotiations always bring with them. But I think, as I say, it is in both

0:24:09 > 0:24:13our interest that we should have a good deal. At the end of the day,

0:24:13 > 0:24:18they want our money. They will not get our money unless there is a good

0:24:18 > 0:24:23deal.It has been said that a trade deal cannot be said by putting up a

0:24:23 > 0:24:27few extra cherries in the Brexit cake. This speech did not persuade

0:24:27 > 0:24:32him that is a deal to be done.He is not in charge of the negotiations.

0:24:32 > 0:24:39Michel Barnier did not seem terribly impressed. Are they going to accept

0:24:39 > 0:24:42the Prime Minister's view that you can accept different access for

0:24:42 > 0:24:47different sectors?Let's wait and see. Michel Barnier welcome the

0:24:47 > 0:24:51speech. There is lots of posturing. It is invading tress and hours to

0:24:51 > 0:24:55arrive at a deal that is very similar to that which the Prime

0:24:55 > 0:25:01Minister set on Friday.You're being very positive about with the EU is

0:25:01 > 0:25:05likely to do. They may well not do that. Is there a point at which the

0:25:05 > 0:25:09Prime Minister may be forced to walk away because they will not meet

0:25:09 > 0:25:15halfway?I hope not but if you go into any negotiations in, I want to

0:25:15 > 0:25:20deal at any price, you will be taken to the cleaners. That is true of

0:25:20 > 0:25:24every negotiation. I agree with the Prime Minister when she says that in

0:25:24 > 0:25:27the ultimate circumstance, no deal is better than a bad deal, but I do

0:25:27 > 0:25:31not think we're going to have a bad deal, I think we're going to have a

0:25:31 > 0:25:34deal along the lines the Prime Minister set out on Friday.She said

0:25:34 > 0:25:41we are going to have to compromise and we are not

0:25:41 > 0:25:44and we are not going to get what we want. We will have to meet someone

0:25:44 > 0:25:48in the middle on this and the response from the EU has not been to

0:25:48 > 0:25:50say, we agree, let's talk about compromise, it has to -- it has been

0:25:50 > 0:25:54to maintain a lot of their hard lines about cherry picking.That

0:25:54 > 0:25:57will change. Their approach to the negotiations on the first stage

0:25:57 > 0:26:01changed. All sorts of figures were bandied about about the money we

0:26:01 > 0:26:06would have to pay and they bore no reality to the ultimate outcome. You

0:26:06 > 0:26:09have to take these initial negotiating positions with a pinch

0:26:09 > 0:26:16of salt.When the EU was negotiating with Greece during its financial

0:26:16 > 0:26:18crisis, they were absolutely insistent, they did not soften their

0:26:18 > 0:26:26lines.No disrespect to Greece, but we are not Greece. The European

0:26:26 > 0:26:31Union needs access to our markets. The European Union needs our money.

0:26:31 > 0:26:36The situation is very, very different from that which happened

0:26:36 > 0:26:40between the EU and Greece.Lord Howard, thank you for talking to us

0:26:40 > 0:26:42this morning.

0:26:42 > 0:26:45As we've heard, Jeremy Corbyn made his own big speech on Brexit

0:26:45 > 0:26:47earlier in the week and he backed a customs union.

0:26:47 > 0:26:48So how would it work?

0:26:48 > 0:26:50With me from Salford is the Shadow Communities

0:26:50 > 0:26:51Secretary, Andrew Gwynne.

0:26:51 > 0:26:56Thank you very much for coming in to speak to us today. We have got to

0:26:56 > 0:26:59make a very different approaches. Jeremy Corbyn at the beginning of

0:26:59 > 0:27:05the week saying he wanted to stay in a customs union, Theresa May on

0:27:05 > 0:27:10Friday pretty much ruling it out. Is it not Theresa May who is being

0:27:10 > 0:27:14honest with the voters by laying out the hard fact, as she puts it, that

0:27:14 > 0:27:19we will have to accept we have less access to the EU market?Absolutely

0:27:19 > 0:27:24not. That we are leaving the European Union is decided. We had a

0:27:24 > 0:27:28referendum, but the Thames by which we leave the European Union is what

0:27:28 > 0:27:31the negotiations are all about and the Labour Party has always said it

0:27:31 > 0:27:36would seek to maintain the benefits of a customs union. In doing that,

0:27:36 > 0:27:40we have set out our proposals for what we think that new arrangement

0:27:40 > 0:27:47should be, I bespoke agreement between the EU in the UK that would

0:27:47 > 0:27:50maintain the benefits of tariff free trade between the UK and the

0:27:50 > 0:27:55European Union going forward. But one in which we are equal partners,

0:27:55 > 0:28:01so we have a say on those new trade deals that are being made and a half

0:28:01 > 0:28:06of the new arrangements between our two trading blocs.That has never

0:28:06 > 0:28:10happened with any other country that has entered into a customs union

0:28:10 > 0:28:14with the EU. Why do you think they would give us an equal say, one of

0:28:14 > 0:28:19us against 27 of them, when it came to a negotiating a trade deal with

0:28:19 > 0:28:22someone else somewhere else in the world?The EU is different trading

0:28:22 > 0:28:26arrangements with different countries.It does and none of them

0:28:26 > 0:28:31have a say in outside trade deals. The difference here, as Lord Howard

0:28:31 > 0:28:37said, we are the largest economy the world. The European Union has

0:28:37 > 0:28:41important trading links with the United Kingdom, it is a two-way

0:28:41 > 0:28:45process, and therefore it is in both of interest that we strike a deal

0:28:45 > 0:28:49that benefits both of us.I do not know what is happening on this

0:28:49 > 0:28:53programme. You are agreeing with Laura Taarabt, he's agreeing with

0:28:53 > 0:28:58Nicky Morgan. It is a very unusual morning.You're all in the same

0:28:58 > 0:29:02side. The difference is the Conservatives have ruled out a

0:29:02 > 0:29:05customs union, and we are saying that a customs union is vital, not

0:29:05 > 0:29:09least that we can give real assurances that the Good Friday

0:29:09 > 0:29:13Agreement and our treaty obligations in the Good Friday Agreement are not

0:29:13 > 0:29:17torn up. We do not want to lose the advantage is that we have seen of 20

0:29:17 > 0:29:22years of peace between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

0:29:22 > 0:29:26If the EU says, you can remain in a customs union but you do not get a

0:29:26 > 0:29:30large say in future trade deals with countries outside of the EU and you

0:29:30 > 0:29:34just have to accept what is negotiated by the EU 27, would you

0:29:34 > 0:29:38still want to be in that customs union?We would have to look at that

0:29:38 > 0:29:45carefully. We want to be a rule maker

0:29:45 > 0:29:49maker and not a real taker. It is hard to do that if you stay in a

0:29:49 > 0:29:51customs union. Unless you have a new arrangement whereby the United

0:29:51 > 0:29:54Kingdom sits at the table when those trade deals are being made. That is

0:29:54 > 0:29:58the new arrangement that we seek to make. We believe we would be in a

0:29:58 > 0:30:02better position to make those arrangements with the European Union

0:30:02 > 0:30:06because we have approached the Brexit negotiations in an entirely

0:30:06 > 0:30:11different manner. We have said what we would like to see in terms of

0:30:11 > 0:30:13transitional arrangements, the government subsequently followed on

0:30:13 > 0:30:17a number of those issues, but all along we have said that we want to

0:30:17 > 0:30:21maintain the benefits of tariff free custom free trade, and that is

0:30:21 > 0:30:26absolutely crucial, not least for the Northern Ireland issue.One of

0:30:26 > 0:30:30the things the Labour Party was looking forward to have to Brexit,

0:30:30 > 0:30:34and that Jeremy Corbyn has stressed, was the freedom from state aid

0:30:34 > 0:30:38rules, where the EU stops the UK Government from giving financial

0:30:38 > 0:30:43assistance to any particular sector of industry. Theresa May spoke about

0:30:43 > 0:30:46that on Friday and said it would be necessary to sign up to the

0:30:46 > 0:30:50directives on state aid and procurement rules, to keep those EU

0:30:50 > 0:30:57rules. Do you accept that will have to happen?

0:30:57 > 0:31:01No, and we have a different view anyway. When it came to our

0:31:01 > 0:31:03anyway. When it came to our

0:31:03 > 0:31:04arguments the Government should step anyway. When it came to our

0:31:04 > 0:31:06arguments the Government should step in to assist the steel industry in

0:31:06 > 0:31:08Britain, the Government used these

0:31:08 > 0:31:11in to assist the steel industry in fallacies about state aid rules

0:31:11 > 0:31:11in to assist the steel industry in excuse themselves for not giving

0:31:11 > 0:31:15adequate support to that industry. We didn't believe in the

0:31:15 > 0:31:18interpretation the Government

0:31:18 > 0:31:19We didn't believe in the because other European countries

0:31:19 > 0:31:21have got round the so-called

0:31:21 > 0:31:24because other European countries aid rules. We have said as part of

0:31:24 > 0:31:29our negotiations, that is a red line for us. We would want to make sure

0:31:29 > 0:31:35we could facilitate state aid in a number of areas where

0:31:35 > 0:31:39we could facilitate state aid in a policies have been clearer about

0:31:39 > 0:31:41we could facilitate state aid in a is a red line, is

0:31:41 > 0:31:43we could facilitate state aid in a staying in the customs union,

0:31:43 > 0:31:45we could facilitate state aid in a have to make the choice? The EU

0:31:45 > 0:31:54could say no customs union if you insist on state aid.We believe we

0:31:54 > 0:31:59could get a bespoke arrangement for a new customs relationship, a new

0:31:59 > 0:32:04customs union.I think there's a name for that, isn't it called

0:32:04 > 0:32:05cherry picking?No because we

0:32:05 > 0:32:07name for that, isn't it called believe this is in the interests of

0:32:07 > 0:32:11believe this is in the interests of the UK and in the interests of the

0:32:11 > 0:32:18European Union. 44% of our trade is with the European Union, 53% of the

0:32:18 > 0:32:19European Union. 44% of our trade is EU's trade is with the UK so it is

0:32:19 > 0:32:27in both our interests that we sort this out and get the best deal not

0:32:27 > 0:32:30in both our interests that we sort for the European Union but for

0:32:30 > 0:32:30in both our interests that we sort Britain outside of the

0:32:30 > 0:32:32in both our interests that we sort Union.You seem to be saying

0:32:32 > 0:32:34in both our interests that we sort Tory government are asking for the

0:32:34 > 0:32:35in both our interests that we sort impossible in their

0:32:35 > 0:32:38in both our interests that we sort won't get what they are

0:32:38 > 0:32:39in both our interests that we sort but somehow if there was a Labour

0:32:39 > 0:32:44government negotiating this deal, all doors would open and you would

0:32:44 > 0:32:45government negotiating this deal, be able to select which bit of the

0:32:45 > 0:32:46government negotiating this deal, customs union you did and didn't

0:32:46 > 0:32:50like and could have a

0:32:50 > 0:32:51customs union you did and didn't that is not available for

0:32:51 > 0:32:54customs union you did and didn't reason to Theresa May.They ruled

0:32:54 > 0:32:57out a customs union, I think that is out a customs union, I think that is

0:32:57 > 0:33:02a bad decision because I believe a customs union, negotiated between

0:33:02 > 0:33:08the UK and the European Union 27 is in the best interests of

0:33:08 > 0:33:10the UK and the European Union 27 is customs free tariff-free trade going

0:33:10 > 0:33:13forward but also sorting out the

0:33:13 > 0:33:15customs free tariff-free trade going issue of the border between Ireland,

0:33:15 > 0:33:18customs free tariff-free trade going north and south.Labour set out six

0:33:18 > 0:33:22tests as to whether they

0:33:22 > 0:33:25north and south.Labour set out six one of those was that it had to

0:33:25 > 0:33:26north and south.Labour set out six deliver the same benefits we

0:33:26 > 0:33:28north and south.Labour set out six from being in the single market and

0:33:28 > 0:33:33customs union. That was a quote from David Davis, but Theresa May has

0:33:33 > 0:33:35David Davis, but Theresa May has been clear we are not going to

0:33:35 > 0:33:38David Davis, but Theresa May has the same benefits. Does this mean

0:33:38 > 0:33:44Labour under no circumstances will be able to vote for any Brexit deal

0:33:44 > 0:33:45that's been negotiated?Let's see that's been negotiated?Let's see

0:33:45 > 0:33:48what Brexit deal comes back

0:33:48 > 0:33:50that's been negotiated?Let's see we have a hypothetical vote on this.

0:33:50 > 0:33:54You don't think there's any circumstances in which it could come

0:33:54 > 0:33:58back...I believe if the Government wanted to enter into negotiations to

0:33:58 > 0:34:01wanted to enter into negotiations to do that, they could do that. The

0:34:01 > 0:34:04fact the Prime Minister

0:34:04 > 0:34:07do that, they could do that. The is probably because they have ruled

0:34:07 > 0:34:07do that, they could do that. The out a customs union. We believe that

0:34:07 > 0:34:11do that, they could do that. The is the wrong decision, we believe

0:34:11 > 0:34:12do that, they could do that. The that arrangement is possible, but

0:34:12 > 0:34:16let's see what the Government comes back with and then we will decide

0:34:16 > 0:34:19let's see what the Government comes how we vote in parliament.

0:34:19 > 0:34:21Parliament has got a meaningful vote

0:34:21 > 0:34:23how we vote in parliament. and that was something that had to

0:34:23 > 0:34:27be secured through the parliamentary processes. The Government weren't

0:34:27 > 0:34:29going to give us that right

0:34:29 > 0:34:33processes. The Government weren't think it is right it is ultimately

0:34:33 > 0:34:35Parliament that decides.Thank

0:34:35 > 0:34:37It's coming up to 11.40, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:34:37 > 0:34:39Still to come...

0:34:39 > 0:34:42As the government promises to cut red tape to get more houses built,

0:34:42 > 0:34:44we'll ask the Cabinet Office minister David Lidington

0:34:44 > 0:34:46whether they're finally prepared to take on the nimbys.

0:34:46 > 0:34:48First though, it's time for the Sunday Politics

0:34:48 > 0:34:56where you are.

0:34:56 > 0:34:57Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics.

0:34:57 > 0:35:01A major speech on Brexit by the Prime Minister,

0:35:01 > 0:35:04but did it offer any new ideas to help reach agreement?

0:35:04 > 0:35:07We'll hear from Sinn Fein - which claims there wasn't one

0:35:07 > 0:35:09specific solution to help prevent a hard border -

0:35:09 > 0:35:11and the Ulster Unionists, who say the principle

0:35:11 > 0:35:13of consent cannot be ignored.

0:35:13 > 0:35:15And with their thoughts on that and more, my guests

0:35:15 > 0:35:17of the day are commentators

0:35:17 > 0:35:18Brian Feeney and Felicity Huston.

0:35:25 > 0:35:28It was billed as a speech which would shed more detail

0:35:28 > 0:35:31on the sort of trading relationship Theresa May wants to see after

0:35:31 > 0:35:34the UK's left the European Union.

0:35:34 > 0:35:36She restated her commitment to avoiding a hard border,

0:35:36 > 0:35:39but gave no new detail on how that is to be achieved.

0:35:39 > 0:35:42We'll hear what the Ulster Unionist MEP Jim Nicholson

0:35:42 > 0:35:45and Sinn Fein's Martina Anderson make of it in just a moment,

0:35:45 > 0:35:48but first, here are the Prime Minister and the Tanaiste,

0:35:48 > 0:35:51Simon Coveney, speaking on the Andrew Marr show earlier.

0:35:51 > 0:35:59As ever, the border proved to be the big issue.

0:35:59 > 0:36:02And there are various elements of ensuring we don't have a hard

0:36:02 > 0:36:06border. After that is the customs arrangements, after that is the

0:36:06 > 0:36:14standards we abide by. What've sing on standards is we will be looking

0:36:14 > 0:36:20to say where does it make sense any practical sense, it's important for

0:36:20 > 0:36:24people and their prosperity, where does it make sense for us to say we

0:36:24 > 0:36:31will abide by these items? This is important, because we talk about EU

0:36:31 > 0:36:36standards, but often what we have talked about aren't EU standards,

0:36:36 > 0:36:40they are international standards. Often these are developed in an

0:36:40 > 0:36:44international markets, so what we would be doing is making sure we are

0:36:44 > 0:36:49meeting standards that enable us to trade elsewhere.And do you think

0:36:49 > 0:36:54the borderline between Islington and Camden as a useful comparison?I

0:36:54 > 0:36:58think the Irish border is something to which we are all committed. All

0:36:58 > 0:37:04the parties in Northern Ireland and ourselves are committed to make sure

0:37:04 > 0:37:08there is no hard border. I am pleased the commission and the

0:37:08 > 0:37:14governments will be able to sit down and see how the proposals we put

0:37:14 > 0:37:19forward will work.Boris Johnson thinks might have to be a hard

0:37:19 > 0:37:26border.No, Boris Johnson is clear there will not be a hard border.

0:37:26 > 0:37:30There will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. We

0:37:30 > 0:37:34have proposals as to how we can achieve that, we will now be able to

0:37:34 > 0:37:38sit down and talk with others to how we do that. That is back my message

0:37:38 > 0:37:45in this speech overall, we're set out our ideas for the future on this

0:37:45 > 0:37:52ambitious relationship, let's get on and start the negotiation.This was

0:37:52 > 0:37:56the mistake made in Britain all the time, I think, when someone

0:37:56 > 0:38:00definitively says something will be the case from the British

0:38:00 > 0:38:03governments, people will assume that is the negotiated outcome. Of

0:38:03 > 0:38:08course, it's not. I'm not sure the European Union will be able to spot

0:38:08 > 0:38:17the situation whereby 80% of companies which trades across the

0:38:17 > 0:38:24border will protect the integrity of the European single market. While of

0:38:24 > 0:38:28course we will explore and look at all at the proposed British

0:38:28 > 0:38:31solutions, there are essentially a starting point in negotiations, as

0:38:31 > 0:38:35opposed to an end point. Our responsibility and Ireland is to

0:38:35 > 0:38:45work with Britain. We will work positively with Britain to explore

0:38:45 > 0:38:49solutions, but if we can't agree on solutions, what will happen is the

0:38:49 > 0:38:53backstop, a commitment by the British Government to rent an full

0:38:53 > 0:38:58alignment with the

0:38:59 > 0:39:01alignment with the rules and customs of the single market.

0:39:01 > 0:39:02Theresa May and Simon Coveney.

0:39:02 > 0:39:05And joining me now from Brussels is Sinn Fein's Martina Anderson.

0:39:05 > 0:39:07With me in studio is the Ulster Unionist MEP, Jim Nicholson.

0:39:07 > 0:39:12Martina, it do you welcome the clear change in tone from Theresa May's

0:39:12 > 0:39:21speech, clearly acknowledging the need to find a solution to the

0:39:21 > 0:39:26border situation?I don't know what speech you were listening to,

0:39:26 > 0:39:30because tone is not what we were looking for. We needed precise

0:39:30 > 0:39:35proposals, and we didn't get that. Theresa May signed up on the 8th of

0:39:35 > 0:39:39December to three options. The first, preferred option, was that

0:39:39 > 0:39:43there would be an agreement at this stage. Claiming that, she would

0:39:43 > 0:39:50bring back proposals in relation to the

0:39:50 > 0:39:52the border in Ireland. And of both those proposals fails, there would

0:39:52 > 0:39:57be the third option, and that would be done in the context of moving

0:39:57 > 0:40:03from phase one phase two that you would fully and faithfully implement

0:40:03 > 0:40:07her commitments. We got none of that in this speech. It was full of fluff

0:40:07 > 0:40:14and nonsense.She made it clear she doesn't like option C, the backstop

0:40:14 > 0:40:20option, she wants to flesh out options A and B. She said things

0:40:20 > 0:40:26like we will not introduce a hard border, if the EU forces Ireland to

0:40:26 > 0:40:33that, it's to learn. She says, that's not acceptable, we chose to

0:40:33 > 0:40:40leave, we have to help find a solution. She now needs to flesh out

0:40:40 > 0:40:48the meat on the bones, that is what happened next.She is a co-parent of

0:40:48 > 0:40:51the Good Friday Agreement, so it is obvious it is our responsibility to

0:40:51 > 0:40:56find a solution. We are less then 51 weeks away from the end of this

0:40:56 > 0:41:01process. We haven't had one concrete proposal brought forward by the

0:41:01 > 0:41:09British Government. She may not like option Charlie, but she signed up to

0:41:09 > 0:41:14it on the 8th of December, and the Parliament and Council was very

0:41:14 > 0:41:23clear, that we have to make sure that what was committed to by the

0:41:23 > 0:41:28British Government would be fully and faithfully implemented in this

0:41:28 > 0:41:32draft treaty in order for us to phase two, which is about the future

0:41:32 > 0:41:39relationship. We want that. What we all have to do is provide legal

0:41:39 > 0:41:46certainty for the traders, for businesses and to make sure there's

0:41:46 > 0:41:52no diminution of rights and

0:41:52 > 0:41:56no diminution of rights and we have that is going to be rejected and

0:41:56 > 0:42:05protected for people in the North. Shisha is developed option C

0:42:05 > 0:42:13brother.It has been said this was a triumph of style over substance. We

0:42:13 > 0:42:16haven't seen any new details whatsoever in how precisely the

0:42:16 > 0:42:21Prime Minister wants to move the process forward comedy exit that?I

0:42:21 > 0:42:28do not. This speech should have been made some time ago, but this has

0:42:28 > 0:42:37been a pragmatic speech by her. She made it clear she accepts the

0:42:37 > 0:42:44responsibility that the UK has a role to play in finding a solution.

0:42:44 > 0:42:48She made clear because it was Europe and the Irish Government who said it

0:42:48 > 0:42:51is up to the UK to find a solution on the border. Theresa May has come

0:42:51 > 0:43:01back and said, I'm sorry, it's up to all three of us. I was here and I

0:43:01 > 0:43:06said at the time of the Council agreement at the time that was a

0:43:06 > 0:43:10fudge, and it has proved to be a budget, and they have greater

0:43:10 > 0:43:14difficulty in putting legal certainty under that. The thing I am

0:43:14 > 0:43:18not clear about now as we move forward is how long it's going to

0:43:18 > 0:43:24take the UK and the other 27 to find a solution before we move on to the

0:43:24 > 0:43:27more important talks on trade and the second stage of this process,

0:43:27 > 0:43:35which is I want to see us go on to. In that, we will find a lot of

0:43:35 > 0:43:40solutions to the problems we do face.I think everyone is keen to

0:43:40 > 0:43:45move on to substantive trade talks and the future relationship, but

0:43:45 > 0:43:50Theresa May said three things the other day, no hard border, no hard

0:43:50 > 0:43:53border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, and no continuing

0:43:53 > 0:43:57membership of the customs union. A lot of people say it is not possible

0:43:57 > 0:44:04to achieve those three commitments. Do you thinkit remains to be seen.

0:44:04 > 0:44:08There is a lot of negotiation to go through. The one thing I am clear

0:44:08 > 0:44:12about is there will be a lots of compromise and nobody is going to

0:44:12 > 0:44:22get all they once. Not the UK or the EU. The amazing thing about this

0:44:22 > 0:44:25process is that Mr Barnier and Mr Juncker have been able to keep the

0:44:25 > 0:44:31member states very close together Octonauts. We will watch what

0:44:31 > 0:44:38happens as we come towards other negotiations. Recently I visited the

0:44:38 > 0:44:43port against,

0:44:45 > 0:44:48port against, -- I visited the port of Ghent, there will be many

0:44:48 > 0:44:54borders, ports in the UK and on the continent that face similar

0:44:54 > 0:45:01difficulties and face major problems. Have to face them as well.

0:45:01 > 0:45:04We had to face them as well, but we are so close and trying to find a

0:45:04 > 0:45:10way forward out of this, but the truth as this will be difficult.

0:45:10 > 0:45:18Those who thought it was an easy process that the

0:45:18 > 0:45:21process that the UK was going to leave the EU didn't work over all

0:45:21 > 0:45:29the substance. This is the problem we are now facing.There are not

0:45:29 > 0:45:33many people saying these days it will be simple. Martina, Baxter that

0:45:33 > 0:45:40backstop agreement that on the table in December about full regulatory

0:45:40 > 0:45:44alignment. Theresa May has indicated she is not happy with that, but

0:45:44 > 0:45:47there was a hint in the Mansion House speech that he said, we are

0:45:47 > 0:45:53leaving, taking back control, but will continue to adopt the system of

0:45:53 > 0:45:58rules and regulations we are tied into. That is very interesting shift

0:45:58 > 0:46:07potentially on the part of the British Government?What the British

0:46:07 > 0:46:12Government wants is its cake and eat it. It was some kind of Brexit

0:46:12 > 0:46:17varied to magically resolve the Brexit disaster. She is talking

0:46:17 > 0:46:23about outcomes, regulatory outcomes. She is not talking about regulatory

0:46:23 > 0:46:30convergence. It's quite clear that in the EU it is about being precise,

0:46:30 > 0:46:36making sure it is in a treaty, making sure you give certainty. Not

0:46:36 > 0:46:42to just trust us on the day. And even though our laws will be

0:46:42 > 0:46:45different, the outcomes will be the same. That is what she proposed on

0:46:45 > 0:46:49Friday. House speech on Friday was no different to any other speech

0:46:49 > 0:46:57that she has given from the start of this process. My responsibility is

0:46:57 > 0:47:01that I need to make sure I protect all the people of the North and of

0:47:01 > 0:47:06the island as far as I can. I can guarantee you that what is in the

0:47:06 > 0:47:10backstop, while it refers to the North remaining in the custom union

0:47:10 > 0:47:15and the single market, will be embraced by everyone who is trading

0:47:15 > 0:47:20not just across the island but into the largest market that there is in

0:47:20 > 0:47:26the world. So what we have to do is to capture what has been put

0:47:26 > 0:47:32forward, and let's not forget, she may not like it, but she agreed to

0:47:32 > 0:47:36it on the 8th of December. She agreed to do three things. She has

0:47:36 > 0:47:44failed an option A and option B, we need certainty in the North and I

0:47:44 > 0:47:47have a responsibility to make sure at the North stays in the custom

0:47:47 > 0:47:54union and the single market, the ECJ applies, and from Thursday next

0:47:54 > 0:47:56week, I will be launching a legal advice in London to show the charter

0:47:56 > 0:48:03for fundamental rights not being in this Brexit discussion by Theresa

0:48:03 > 0:48:07May is also going to have implications for the North.That

0:48:07 > 0:48:10maybe your aspiration, it doesn't mean the British Government

0:48:10 > 0:48:15necessarily agrees with you. I want to ask you about what the World

0:48:15 > 0:48:19Trade Organisation terms and conditions may mean if the UK

0:48:19 > 0:48:27doesn't reach a deal with EU. That is what some Brexit supporters think

0:48:27 > 0:48:30would be fine, Theresa May not that on the head, he said that would not

0:48:30 > 0:48:35be enough for the UK to keep its border promises. In all at this, she

0:48:35 > 0:48:42has made a commitment to no hard border on the island of Ireland.The

0:48:42 > 0:48:46harsh truth is that no matter what Theresa May will say, Martina

0:48:46 > 0:48:49Anderson will not agree, because she has taken a diametrically opposed

0:48:49 > 0:48:56position. Quite frankly, I think as we move forward, you're right, WTO

0:48:56 > 0:49:02is the worst case of all. White fleece some people would like that?

0:49:02 > 0:49:10Some people would like that, but it would end up being a total disaster

0:49:10 > 0:49:14for us and the Republic of Ireland. We keep talking about North/South,

0:49:14 > 0:49:20but does the East/West relationship we have to look to too. I am not

0:49:20 > 0:49:27going to affect the single market of the United Kingdom.That is an

0:49:27 > 0:49:30internal, UK issue and the European Union doesn't want to get involved

0:49:30 > 0:49:35in that at all. It is not arguing to diminish the integrity of the

0:49:35 > 0:49:39Constitution of the UK.You talk about alignments, what will that be

0:49:39 > 0:49:42like in ten years' time? Who was going to monitor that? We don't even

0:49:42 > 0:49:49have a storm at executive to have any input. Scotland, Wales and

0:49:49 > 0:49:54everyone else is putting in inputs, and we are not Ireland have no say.

0:49:54 > 0:49:58And who in future is going to monitor what that alignment will be?

0:49:58 > 0:50:09Are we going to the simply told what to do? Willet come to the stage

0:50:09 > 0:50:12where what we produce will not be accepted and the rest of the UK? I

0:50:12 > 0:50:19will let out right away.No meeting of minds, but an interesting debate.

0:50:19 > 0:50:20Martina Anderson and Jim Nicholson, thank you.

0:50:20 > 0:50:22Let's hear from my guests of the day,

0:50:22 > 0:50:29Brian Feeney and Felicity Huston.

0:50:29 > 0:50:32Felicity, do you feel debate has substantially moved on in the wake

0:50:32 > 0:50:35of what the Prime Minister had to say on Friday, I was simply a

0:50:35 > 0:50:42restatement of previous commitments? And things he was attempting to move

0:50:42 > 0:50:44on. There is this delusional suggestion she should be coming down

0:50:44 > 0:50:51on the hard side. If she explained the consulate have to be filled in

0:50:51 > 0:50:57over a hard border, people don't want to hear that...Were not need

0:50:57 > 0:51:02more than they commitments at this stage?I think there should be more

0:51:02 > 0:51:08set from Brussels on their commitments.

0:51:09 > 0:51:12commitments. All we hear is no, I think it is time we hear something

0:51:12 > 0:51:18from there.She bears some responsible to providing solutions,

0:51:18 > 0:51:24she is clear about that. The turn of the speech was interesting. There is

0:51:24 > 0:51:27a responsibility in the UK Government to come up with solutions

0:51:27 > 0:51:36because it was their decision to leave.As recently as May 17, the

0:51:36 > 0:51:39commissioner down south was happy to go ahead with an open border and

0:51:39 > 0:51:47very little electronic changes. Why has that changed?Do you think the

0:51:47 > 0:51:52change of tone is real or has it been overplayed?There has been a

0:51:52 > 0:51:57change of tone and it is significant, but not overly border.

0:51:57 > 0:52:01She is accepting now that, essentially, Britain is going to be

0:52:01 > 0:52:08growing slower. People are going to be more poor. Life has changed, they

0:52:08 > 0:52:12will not be able to have the same relationship if they leave the

0:52:12 > 0:52:15customs union and the single market. She said we will not have the same

0:52:15 > 0:52:20access any more. There is a dose of reality. Michael Heseltine this

0:52:20 > 0:52:28morning said it's all platitudes, there is nothing there. Felicity say

0:52:28 > 0:52:31the EU aren't producing anything, they have produced this draft

0:52:31 > 0:52:35withdrawal treaty and she has responded with platitudes. I am one

0:52:35 > 0:52:41of the few people, apart from officials, I have read this 120

0:52:41 > 0:52:46pages. It is an enormously detailed legal document. There is nothing

0:52:46 > 0:52:50coming from the British Government at all. They are going to have to

0:52:50 > 0:52:55negotiate on this. Will get another documents on Tuesday and on the 23rd

0:52:55 > 0:52:59of March, European Council will decide how to move on on the basis

0:52:59 > 0:53:06of the withdrawal treaty. There is nothing substantive. The 120 pages

0:53:06 > 0:53:11aren't just the Irish border, there are other things about data

0:53:11 > 0:53:17protection, about the role of different courts. She has changed

0:53:17 > 0:53:20her talent, yes, she is excepting the European Court of Justice will

0:53:20 > 0:53:25have a continuing role. People concentrate on the North/South,

0:53:25 > 0:53:29East/West stuff, they are missing that the European Court of Justice

0:53:29 > 0:53:33will continue to have a role in Northern Ireland.Maybe this speech

0:53:33 > 0:53:39was more about trying to hold the very difficult Conservative Party

0:53:39 > 0:53:45together than anything else? Cheese instead succeeded in that?Even Anna

0:53:45 > 0:53:47Soubry was quite confirmatory, which is quite an achievement.

0:53:47 > 0:53:49Thanks, both.

0:53:49 > 0:53:52Let's just pause for a moment and have a look back at another

0:53:52 > 0:53:55Brexit-focused week in 60 seconds with Gareth Gordon.

0:54:02 > 0:54:06The European Commission of list is Strata legal text, suggesting

0:54:06 > 0:54:11Northern Ireland should remain part of the customs union and share a

0:54:11 > 0:54:14common regulatory area with the Republic. The Prime Minister said

0:54:14 > 0:54:21no.Know UK Prime Minister could ever agree to eight. I will make it

0:54:21 > 0:54:25crystal clear to President Juncker and others we will never do so.

0:54:25 > 0:54:29Double hopes the backstop option won't be needed.I don't want a

0:54:29 > 0:54:42border between the north and sell than I want with the UK.People keep

0:54:42 > 0:54:46treating the border question is little separates, it is not, it is a

0:54:46 > 0:54:52metaphor for the overall dilemma. Businesses in the border would now

0:54:52 > 0:54:57like to start over.We have three different Britons, the only

0:54:57 > 0:55:00alternative is to have a second referendum would be people who

0:55:00 > 0:55:04didn't realise what they were voting for in the first place. -- we have

0:55:04 > 0:55:06three different options, the alternative.

0:55:06 > 0:55:07Gareth Gordon reporting.

0:55:07 > 0:55:11And let's have a final word with our commentators.

0:55:11 > 0:55:17I just want to look ahead to local politics and pick up on a couple of

0:55:17 > 0:55:20weeks of toxic exchanges between the DUP and Sinn Fein on what was and

0:55:20 > 0:55:27not agreed on the negotiation of the draft agreement text. DC any sign of

0:55:27 > 0:55:31Stormont is coming back in the short time?Not in the short term. It is

0:55:31 > 0:55:36difficult to see how they can even be renewed talks before the 20th

0:55:36 > 0:55:40anniversary of the agreement. We have a couple of difficult weeks to

0:55:40 > 0:55:47with Brexit. It has been said there is tension between the British and

0:55:47 > 0:55:51Irish governments on the whole thing. It is difficult to see how

0:55:51 > 0:55:54they can bring the two parties together, they are very far apart,

0:55:54 > 0:56:00they are not even agreeing on what they agreed.The irony is, if you

0:56:00 > 0:56:04look at that draft text and the fact it has now been shown that Arlene

0:56:04 > 0:56:08Foster did give a hard copy of that to Michelle O'Neill on the Friday

0:56:08 > 0:56:13nights, they were so close to a remarkable deal.It fell apart over

0:56:13 > 0:56:22the weekend. Mary Lou McDonald said she warned that if they didn't

0:56:22 > 0:56:28agree, people would and picket. But the suspicion and leaks that were

0:56:28 > 0:56:34coming out over that weekend spoke to elements in the DUP who say, we

0:56:34 > 0:56:41can't service to the grassroots. That is the key, DUP grassroots had

0:56:41 > 0:56:45not been prepared for what is coming?Arlene had said they would

0:56:45 > 0:56:48be no Irish Language Act, now there appears to be one. It is important

0:56:48 > 0:56:53to remember there is not just the DUP by the idea of an Irish language

0:56:53 > 0:56:59and difficult, it is widespread concern.It is also worth pointing

0:56:59 > 0:57:04out it is not your Sinn Fein who once one?But they are the drivers

0:57:04 > 0:57:09of it, they are driving the whole interest and people say

0:57:09 > 0:57:16weaponisation of the Irish Language Act abackbut others want it?They

0:57:16 > 0:57:22are hanging on the coat-tails of Sinn Fein who are very organised.

0:57:22 > 0:57:27People are a bit incorrect of their assessment that it is just the DUP

0:57:27 > 0:57:29who don't want this and are very uncomfortable with what comes with

0:57:29 > 0:57:36its.

0:57:36 > 0:57:41its.A final word on that?It is a mistake to think it is just the

0:57:41 > 0:57:46Irish Language Act, it is symbolic of Unionists saying we will decide

0:57:46 > 0:57:51how many rights you have.Thank you both very much, that is

0:57:51 > 0:57:53Costanza, thank you very much for coming in.

0:57:53 > 0:57:56That's all we've got time for for the London part of the show.

0:57:56 > 0:57:58My thanks to you for being my guests today.

0:57:58 > 0:57:59Bye-bye.

0:57:59 > 0:58:00welcome back.

0:58:00 > 0:58:02So how about a bit of a break from Brexit?

0:58:02 > 0:58:05This morning the government announced new plans to make it

0:58:05 > 0:58:08easier for more houses to be built, with rules to cut red

0:58:08 > 0:58:10tape so that there can be more homes in areas

0:58:10 > 0:58:11where they are needed the most.

0:58:11 > 0:58:14The government says they will take on what they call the "Nimby

0:58:14 > 0:58:15councils" who don't build enough.

0:58:15 > 0:58:18However, their problem is that a lot of these councils are Conservative.

0:58:18 > 0:58:21So could we be about to see a battle between local

0:58:21 > 0:58:22and central government?

0:58:22 > 0:58:25With me now with hopefully all the answers is Cabinet Office

0:58:25 > 0:58:27Minister David Lidington.

0:58:27 > 0:58:31Thanks very much for coming in.Good morning. If you're going to try and

0:58:31 > 0:58:34build more homes in the south-east of England, which is where the

0:58:34 > 0:58:38demand is highest, these are going to be your own councillors you're

0:58:38 > 0:58:42taking on over this?If you talk to most Conservative councillors they

0:58:42 > 0:58:46will get the need for more homes and their significant growth in house

0:58:46 > 0:58:52building. Actually, if you talk to councils in my area you will see

0:58:52 > 0:58:54councils that are getting on in doing it with one of the fastest new

0:58:54 > 0:58:58house-building rates anywhere in the country.Under this government

0:58:58 > 0:59:02house-building rates have fallen significantly. Fewer new houses a

0:59:02 > 0:59:09year than there were under the Labour government, 223,000 in 2007,

0:59:09 > 0:59:14217,000, fewer now than word being built under the last Labour

0:59:14 > 0:59:18government.The number of new houses last year was 217,000, the

0:59:18 > 0:59:22second-highest annual house-building figure in 30 years. That is not a

0:59:22 > 0:59:26record to be ashamed of. We have also increased considerably the

0:59:26 > 0:59:29spending on affordable homes in the delivery of affordable homes in

0:59:29 > 0:59:33council homes compared with what the Labour government achieved. More

0:59:33 > 0:59:38council houses have been built since 2010 than the entire 13 years in the

0:59:38 > 0:59:41Labour government before that.The number of affordable homes being

0:59:41 > 0:59:47built is going down.

0:59:47 > 0:59:49built is going down. In 2010 it was 61,000, last year was 40,000.This

0:59:49 > 0:59:53is exactly why we have put in £9 billion, an extra 2 billion in the

0:59:53 > 0:59:57last year alone, into the affordable housing programme. What we need to

0:59:57 > 1:00:01do is to get the new homes built. That takes us to the planning

1:00:01 > 1:00:06announcement that is being made tomorrow, with a new national

1:00:06 > 1:00:11planning policy framework for public consultation. Houses and residents'

1:00:11 > 1:00:16groups can feedback their views on that. When I talk to councils I

1:00:16 > 1:00:19find, and I talk to residents concerned about new development,

1:00:19 > 1:00:22what they want is to know that there is going to be the infrastructure,

1:00:22 > 1:00:28there is going to be the public services to support new housing. I

1:00:28 > 1:00:31find increasingly people get the need for new housing.People get the

1:00:31 > 1:00:36need for new housing, they just do not want it anywhere near them. That

1:00:36 > 1:00:41is where the phrase Nimby comes from.I think that is being unfair.

1:00:41 > 1:00:47When I say to

1:00:53 > 1:00:55people, all can your children or grandchildren afford to get on the

1:00:55 > 1:00:58housing ladder, you see the heads nodding, even among older residents.

1:00:58 > 1:01:01They get the importance of this, just as people get the significance

1:01:01 > 1:01:03that we are living independently for longer. That is great, but we also

1:01:03 > 1:01:05need more accommodation, there are more households for any given level

1:01:05 > 1:01:09of population than we had in the past. As well as having the house is

1:01:09 > 1:01:13planned for, so that the locations, as in the new guard in towns and

1:01:13 > 1:01:18cities programme are being properly planned for, you also need the

1:01:18 > 1:01:23infrastructure, the transport, the broadband to support that. That is

1:01:23 > 1:01:26why the housing infrastructure fund has been set up, so that local

1:01:26 > 1:01:29councils can bid for that to support unlocking development opportunities.

1:01:29 > 1:01:38The government has said this morning that Nimbys need to be tackled. But

1:01:38 > 1:01:41the Nimbys and in the Cabinet. You have said this needs to be done in a

1:01:41 > 1:01:44way that protects the green belt. The housing minister says every

1:01:44 > 1:01:49effort must be made to avoid building in the green belt. The

1:01:49 > 1:01:53Prime Minister Minister said that local authorities may only alter

1:01:53 > 1:02:00green belt boundaries in exceptional circumstances.

1:02:02 > 1:02:06circumstances.No, not at all, you are underestimating the way green

1:02:06 > 1:02:12belt is important. If you come back to the Chilterns green belt area,

1:02:12 > 1:02:19for people living in London, living in Luton, High Wycombe, Milton

1:02:19 > 1:02:21Keynes, Watford, these are places expanding, new houses are being

1:02:21 > 1:02:28built. Having that nearby is something that is really important

1:02:28 > 1:02:34so we need to plan housing alongside conservation which is why when the

1:02:34 > 1:02:36planning framework is announced tomorrow and the Prime Minister

1:02:36 > 1:02:41makes her big speech on housing, we are also saying this will be

1:02:41 > 1:02:45developed alongside and taking full account of what Michael Gove and the

1:02:45 > 1:02:49environment Department are doing with a 25 year plans to improve the

1:02:49 > 1:02:53environment of our country.Let me take you back to the speech the

1:02:53 > 1:02:58Prime Minister made on Friday, her Brexit speech. She made it clear one

1:02:58 > 1:03:02of the hard facts was we weren't going to get everything we wanted.

1:03:02 > 1:03:07You are as close as you can beat her thinking on this, what will she

1:03:07 > 1:03:14compromise on?Tempted as I am, I'm not going to go into a detailed

1:03:14 > 1:03:20negotiating position. We accept that what we put forward is ambitious,

1:03:20 > 1:03:24also credible idea for a close economic partnership with the EU in

1:03:24 > 1:03:28the future. The PM said in the text of the speech that neither of us

1:03:28 > 1:03:34will end up with everything they wanted. What we need to do now is

1:03:34 > 1:03:38see the EU's opening position, to sit down and start to work through

1:03:38 > 1:03:46in detail some of these points about the law, how you deliver our

1:03:46 > 1:03:48objectives of as frictionless trade as possible, our economic

1:03:48 > 1:03:51partnership in the future that allows cross-border spy chains to

1:03:51 > 1:03:57continue in a way that works to our advantage and that of the EU 27

1:03:57 > 1:04:02countries alike.The Irish government don't seem to be happy

1:04:02 > 1:04:10about this, Simon Coveney said this morning he doesn't then -- think the

1:04:10 > 1:04:17EU will agree to it so we are no closer to fixing the problem.Simon

1:04:17 > 1:04:20Coveney and the Taoiseach as well as others have also the way to solving

1:04:20 > 1:04:24the responsibilities over the Irish border and avoiding the hard border

1:04:24 > 1:04:30as to do that in the context of an overall EU UK economic partnership

1:04:30 > 1:04:34for the future, and go back to the PM's speech on Friday and she set

1:04:34 > 1:04:40out a number of elements of that. A deal on goods that would mean the

1:04:40 > 1:04:47and the EU recognise each other's standards so British and European

1:04:47 > 1:04:52goods circulated freely without the need for border checks or paperwork.

1:04:52 > 1:04:57That's what the Irish said they don't think the EU will agree to.I

1:04:57 > 1:05:01think it is in the interests of the EU to have this arrangement and

1:05:01 > 1:05:06these sorts of detail are what we need to get into to understand where

1:05:06 > 1:05:11difficulties lie. The Prime Minister also talks about a customs

1:05:11 > 1:05:15arrangement or partnership with the EU 27 in the future that would allow

1:05:15 > 1:05:19us to simplify and eliminate some of these problems. We already have

1:05:19 > 1:05:26agreement on the continuation of the Common travel area which means free

1:05:26 > 1:05:27movement of people across the jurisdiction border between the

1:05:27 > 1:05:34island of Ireland and Ireland and the UK. What the Cabinet are

1:05:34 > 1:05:39committed to, and it was laid out in the PM's speech, is that we see it

1:05:39 > 1:05:44as essential to ensure there is not a hard border on the island of

1:05:44 > 1:05:49Ireland, that every aspect of the Good Friday Agreement, both

1:05:49 > 1:05:55east-west and north-south, is upheld in full.Moving onto President

1:05:55 > 1:05:57Trump, he's threatening tariffs on cars imported into the US which

1:05:57 > 1:06:04would include cars coming from the UK, Jaguar Land Rover brought over

1:06:04 > 1:06:09100,000 into the US. If he makes good on the threat of 10% tariffs,

1:06:09 > 1:06:15what will the UK do about that?At the moment we are part of the EU and

1:06:15 > 1:06:19would be talking with the commission and European partners about our

1:06:19 > 1:06:28collective response to this. I just think that the United States is not

1:06:28 > 1:06:37taking an advisable course. Trade wars don't do anybody any good.But

1:06:37 > 1:06:44you know there's every possibility Donald will go with this so what

1:06:44 > 1:06:48would the EU do?We would have to see what happens. There's a lot of

1:06:48 > 1:06:52concern recently about something comparable as regards to aviation

1:06:52 > 1:06:56and the aircraft we produced in part in Belfast and the American

1:06:56 > 1:07:00authorities at the end of the day to drop back down and said no, that is

1:07:00 > 1:07:05not the way we should be going.We tried in Britain in the 1960s

1:07:05 > 1:07:11getting our car industry from competition. It didn't work, it

1:07:11 > 1:07:14protected inefficiencies, we lost all our export markets because our

1:07:14 > 1:07:20competitors went out and gobble them up and the car industry had to go

1:07:20 > 1:07:24through a very painful restructuring to get to the success story it is

1:07:24 > 1:07:28now. Once we have left the European Union

1:07:28 > 1:07:32and customs union, we will be able to respond to a tariff or trade war

1:07:32 > 1:07:36like this entirely differently so if this were happening in three years,

1:07:36 > 1:07:41what would the British government be able to do in response to American

1:07:41 > 1:07:46president threatening tariffs?That is likely piling hypothesis on

1:07:46 > 1:07:49hypothesis, but it would also depend in part on the nature of the

1:07:49 > 1:07:54agreement that I hope we conclude with the EU on industrial goods and

1:07:54 > 1:07:58cross-border supply chains but we would be free to impose our own

1:07:58 > 1:08:01trade defence measures against any country that is trying to dump on

1:08:01 > 1:08:06the UK market and the bill is currently going through Parliament

1:08:06 > 1:08:11will give the UK authorities the power to do just that.David

1:08:11 > 1:08:16Lidington, thanks for talking to us this morning. We will now turn to

1:08:16 > 1:08:24our expert Anil and what they think it means for the future. Steve, this

1:08:24 > 1:08:28idea of the potential of a trade battle going on between the EU and

1:08:28 > 1:08:33US takes us to part of whether the UK can make up its own responses,

1:08:33 > 1:08:38doesn't it?Yes, and it's very interesting David Lidington saying

1:08:38 > 1:08:43we are leaping several hurdles here because he hopes that post Brexit

1:08:43 > 1:08:52the UK and the EU are lined terms of other sectors. Whether they get that

1:08:52 > 1:08:56sector by sector deal is highly questionable so that's one of the

1:08:56 > 1:09:02several hoops that it is very hard to navigate. If you have a president

1:09:02 > 1:09:05of the United States who is a protectionist butting up tariffs,

1:09:05 > 1:09:09that will have an impact on the rest of the world. No country operates

1:09:09 > 1:09:16alone in this global market. That is the harsh reality. It has been lost

1:09:16 > 1:09:19sometimes in arguments about sovereignty and Britain going it

1:09:19 > 1:09:25alone and the rest of it. It has an immediate impact on every other

1:09:25 > 1:09:29country and they are partly powerless to do very much about it.

1:09:29 > 1:09:37Is Donald Trump threatening this is a clearer example as to why Britain

1:09:37 > 1:09:43needs to leave the customs union, Isabel?I think we will have a

1:09:43 > 1:09:51better deal with the EU than Donald Trump does.

1:09:51 > 1:09:55Trump does. Trump hates the EU, he doesn't hate Britain, he wants

1:09:55 > 1:10:02things to work well for us. He has been very consistent about that and

1:10:02 > 1:10:06always said America first so I agree, it is possible he will go

1:10:06 > 1:10:11ahead with this but also equally it is possible that we will strike

1:10:11 > 1:10:15something very positive with the US. We did promise we will talk about

1:10:15 > 1:10:19something other than Brexit for small parts of the programme so

1:10:19 > 1:10:22let's pick up on the housing announcement coming tomorrow from

1:10:22 > 1:10:29the Government. It feels like every six months or so the Government will

1:10:29 > 1:10:34-- promised they will build more homes, and I being cynical?I think

1:10:34 > 1:10:37what they are promising now is exactly what they promised in the

1:10:37 > 1:10:44White Paper on housing, this is just fleshing it out. It is the exact

1:10:44 > 1:10:47same announcement. That said, what's quite good about this, to some

1:10:47 > 1:10:52extent I think the language is too aggressive about councils and that

1:10:52 > 1:10:57is what Labour is picking up on. For a long time, politicians have

1:10:57 > 1:11:03focused on things which are demand side in the housing market because

1:11:03 > 1:11:09it is sexier. Help to buy, right to buy, and yet they can exacerbate the

1:11:09 > 1:11:13problem because if anything while helping a few people they are

1:11:13 > 1:11:16pushing up prices potentially. What they are doing here unapologetically

1:11:16 > 1:11:21is focusing on the supply side and that's what they need to do. It

1:11:21 > 1:11:25isn't very sexy, it is not on every front page today, the speech

1:11:25 > 1:11:30tomorrow won't have as much of an effect as the speech on Friday but

1:11:30 > 1:11:33this is probably one of the biggest crisis facing the country.Probably

1:11:33 > 1:11:39something voters care more about than Brexit?And the timing of this

1:11:39 > 1:11:45is very interesting, coming up to local elections in London Tories are

1:11:45 > 1:11:46is very interesting, coming up to expected to do very badly. Sadiq

1:11:46 > 1:11:49Khan's record on housing is extremely questionable to say the

1:11:49 > 1:11:51Khan's record on housing is least and I think this is an area

1:11:51 > 1:11:55where the Tory party senses it

1:11:55 > 1:11:57least and I think this is an area be more proactive.Is there enough

1:11:57 > 1:11:59least and I think this is an area oxygen in the room for people to

1:11:59 > 1:12:00least and I think this is an area concentrate on housing for voters to

1:12:00 > 1:12:05get the message or ministers to push

1:12:05 > 1:12:08concentrate on housing for voters to this through?Voters have got the

1:12:08 > 1:12:10this through?Voters have got the message. Grandparents understand it

1:12:10 > 1:12:14even if they don't want house building near them because their

1:12:14 > 1:12:16grandchildren cannot buy because

1:12:16 > 1:12:17building near them because their they cannot afford to in certain

1:12:17 > 1:12:20parts of the country so everybody

1:12:20 > 1:12:22they cannot afford to in certain agrees about the ens, we need more

1:12:22 > 1:12:27housing, it is just another means. I completely agree that right to buy

1:12:27 > 1:12:31doesn't address the issue of more housing. This does partly but I

1:12:31 > 1:12:34housing. This does partly but I think the cabinet needs a housing

1:12:34 > 1:12:36minister in the Cabinet accountable

1:12:36 > 1:12:39think the cabinet needs a housing and to say right, we are going to

1:12:39 > 1:12:43build this number through various means and I am accountable to make

1:12:43 > 1:12:47sure it happens. It needs that

1:12:47 > 1:12:49means and I am accountable to make of focus.At the same time as

1:12:49 > 1:12:54Brexit, it should be housing?Yes, they have the right issue. There are

1:12:54 > 1:12:57many issues, Brexit is sucking up

1:12:57 > 1:13:00they have the right issue. There are much energy. There are tonnes of

1:13:00 > 1:13:00much energy. There are tonnes of shoes we should be focusing on but

1:13:00 > 1:13:09this is one of them.Excellent, thank you for coming in.

1:13:09 > 1:13:11Join me again next Sunday at 11am here on BBC One.

1:13:11 > 1:13:18Until then, bye-bye.