:01:24. > :01:31.Anton Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. Thousands of young people
:01:31. > :01:41.here cannot find a job, we are asking why a scheme that helps them
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :36:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2060 seconds
:36:01. > :36:06.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics. 24,000 young people here
:36:06. > :36:09.are out of work and that is the highest in the UK. Reducing this
:36:09. > :36:14.figure is a priority for the Executive but it is planning to
:36:14. > :36:19.change a scheme that encourages young people to stay in education.
:36:20. > :36:21.Student representatives say any cuts would be catastrophic. We ask
:36:22. > :36:28.the employment Minister if the Executive is failing our young
:36:28. > :36:35.people. You can do it in Argentina, Brazil and even the Isle of Man, so
:36:35. > :36:39.should 16 year-olds be able to vote. 16 year-olds can buy a lot of
:36:39. > :36:49.tickets and joined the Army. We are looking ahead to the US election
:36:49. > :36:53.
:36:53. > :36:56.and we are joined by two fresh- faced politicians.
:36:56. > :37:00.The Education Maintenance Allowance allows up to �30 per week to
:37:00. > :37:04.encourage 16 to 19 year-olds to stay in school. Proposed changes
:37:04. > :37:08.would reduce the grants that are targeted at low-income families.
:37:08. > :37:13.Student groups are opposed and say it will lead to massive numbers of
:37:13. > :37:17.young people dropping out of education. Stephen Farry is with me
:37:17. > :37:23.now. Thank you for joining us. Youth unemployment is its huge
:37:23. > :37:29.problem, far worse than it is in the rest of the UK, why are you
:37:29. > :37:34.proposing such wholesale changes to a scheme which helps young people
:37:34. > :37:38.stay off the unemployment register and in education? Let us break this
:37:38. > :37:44.down. First of all, youth unemployment is clearly an issue in
:37:44. > :37:48.Northern Ireland. In some respects we are better than in the situation
:37:48. > :37:55.in the Republic of Ireland and in the European Union, but this is a
:37:55. > :37:59.major challenge for society. Youth unemployment here is 23.5%. When
:37:59. > :38:04.you look at that, it does not equate to one in four people being
:38:04. > :38:08.unemployed, that equates to people looking for work. We have a higher
:38:08. > :38:13.participation rate in higher education in Northern Ireland, so
:38:13. > :38:16.in practice one in seven young people is out of work. That is a
:38:17. > :38:21.major challenge and that is why we have introduce the youth employment
:38:21. > :38:24.scheme. We are now investing more than any other part of the UK in
:38:24. > :38:28.helping a young people stay close to the labour market and to find
:38:28. > :38:36.opportunities for them to get work experience and to get that chance
:38:36. > :38:40.to compete with other workers. These people are not in employment
:38:40. > :38:46.or education or training and they need help. They do. We are
:38:46. > :38:50.investing in resources for them. The investment is investing �40
:38:50. > :38:56.million in youth unemployment and that is a bigger package than is
:38:56. > :39:03.available in any other part of the UK. Let us focus on the Education
:39:03. > :39:08.Maintenance Allowance. There are a number of options. People who work
:39:08. > :39:14.with students and represent them say that this will be catastrophic.
:39:14. > :39:19.That is overdoing it. That is the dramatic language they're using. In
:39:19. > :39:24.practice, they are engaging with us and they responded to our
:39:24. > :39:30.consultation. We're open to alternative ideas, but the reality
:39:30. > :39:33.is we have to find some savings and we are doing other investments for
:39:34. > :39:40.young people so this must be taken in the round. Why do you have to
:39:40. > :39:45.find savings? You got �13.8 million of money for a youth employment
:39:45. > :39:50.scheme. Why are you getting extra money in one bit of your budget but
:39:50. > :39:54.losing money in another? We have to spend scarce resources where they
:39:54. > :39:58.will make the biggest difference in helping young people. The reality
:39:58. > :40:02.is that this game, the evidence shows it is not effective in
:40:02. > :40:10.keeping young people in education, almost two-thirds of young people
:40:10. > :40:15.say it does not make any difference. A survey was carried out which
:40:15. > :40:18.disagreed. I have the statistics. It suggests it does keep young
:40:18. > :40:23.people in education and encourage them to stay there and it helps
:40:23. > :40:27.them. We can argue over the precise scale of the statistics, but we are
:40:27. > :40:32.not seeking to abolish the scheme, it has been abolished in England,
:40:32. > :40:36.in Scotland and Wales they have reformed it. We're talking about a
:40:36. > :40:39.minimal changes compared to elsewhere. We want to keep it and
:40:39. > :40:42.make sure it applies to the young people for whom it makes a
:40:42. > :40:46.difference and remove it for those for whom it does not make a
:40:46. > :40:49.difference. Do you accept that there will be young people
:40:49. > :40:52.currently in receipt of the allowance who will lose it are
:40:52. > :40:58.having scaled back and that that potentially will have an impact on
:40:58. > :41:03.them? It should not. If the scheme is reformed correctly, it will
:41:03. > :41:08.focus on those for whom it makes a difference. We will remove the dead
:41:08. > :41:12.weight from the system. What does that mean? Where we are spending
:41:12. > :41:16.money, where it is not making a difference, there is other things
:41:16. > :41:20.we can do with those resources. Look at what we are doing regarding
:41:20. > :41:25.tuition fees. We have frozen them in Northern Ireland and that makes
:41:25. > :41:29.a huge difference to young people. We have a new widening access
:41:29. > :41:34.strategy insuring that people from disadvantaged backgrounds have a
:41:34. > :41:39.chance to access and gain from an education. We have extended and new
:41:39. > :41:44.training allowance, for those people who are or on a European
:41:44. > :41:49.Social Fund type schemes. We're the only part of the UK that has a
:41:49. > :41:53.training allowance for those on training for success. We do a lot
:41:53. > :41:57.more regarding this allowance been other parts of the UK. Can you give
:41:57. > :42:03.me a profile of the student currently and receipt of the
:42:03. > :42:09.alliance he will lose that and not be in some way affected? There are
:42:09. > :42:14.three different thresholds. Per week that is. We are looking at
:42:14. > :42:22.various options for reform, the five options in the consultation
:42:22. > :42:25.which closed last Friday, we will seek to look at those options and
:42:25. > :42:31.see how the public have responded to those and we will look at other
:42:31. > :42:35.ideas that come through and to see how we can actually target the
:42:35. > :42:38.available resources were it will have the biggest impact. It is for
:42:38. > :42:44.those young people who do needed as an incentive to stay on in
:42:44. > :42:49.education, it will be there. For those for whom it is not making a
:42:49. > :42:54.difference, we want to address that. We understand that. I am sure
:42:54. > :42:58.everyone would support that part of the plan. The difficulty is those
:42:58. > :43:01.individuals who are going to Lusaka, they may feel that they are losing
:43:01. > :43:06.out and they may choose to leave the courses they are on because
:43:06. > :43:14.they feel they cannot afford to stay. If that happens, you will
:43:14. > :43:18.have got this wrong. The that could be a by-product of your action.
:43:18. > :43:22.Before the allowance was introduced, Northern Ireland had the highest
:43:22. > :43:27.participation rates in education and we still have those rates and I
:43:27. > :43:34.expect that will remain the case. The evidence shows from the survey
:43:34. > :43:39.we conducted, it was an independent body, which shows that almost two-
:43:39. > :43:45.thirds of young people, this is not making a difference. We want to
:43:45. > :43:50.focus at on those who find it does make a difference. Have you got
:43:50. > :43:54.reservations about the tinkering about his proposed or are you
:43:54. > :43:59.relaxed about them getting it right? And I am comfortable with
:43:59. > :44:04.this because there were recent statistics that showed a huge bulk
:44:04. > :44:09.of people who were in receipt of this allowance, it was spent on
:44:09. > :44:13.social activities. The idea that this allowance, if it was reformed
:44:13. > :44:17.and fewer people were getting it, that this would be a catastrophic
:44:17. > :44:22.blow that would discourage young people from stain on in education...
:44:22. > :44:26.It is a waste of public resources? I think it is dead weight in the
:44:26. > :44:32.system. The resources can be targeted more effectively to Jenny
:44:32. > :44:39.Wyley encourage people who do find barriers in the wake to their
:44:39. > :44:43.education to stay on in education. I come from a working-class family
:44:44. > :44:47.and I was encouraged to stay on in education, I did not need a state
:44:47. > :44:55.handout to encourage me to stay on. There are people out there who do
:44:55. > :45:02.encounter obstacles... You could be in the child with many siblings.
:45:02. > :45:05.do have many siblings. There are families were there may be a number
:45:05. > :45:10.of children in a household and parents cannot give the kind of
:45:10. > :45:13.support to several children that they bite be able to give to one.
:45:13. > :45:17.have two sisters and a brother and I came from a family were we were
:45:18. > :45:21.all encouraged to continue in education. I do not necessarily
:45:21. > :45:26.think that a blanket handing out of taxpayers' money in the way that
:45:26. > :45:30.the system is currently weighted represents good value for money.
:45:30. > :45:34.you have reservations? No, I support the retention of the
:45:34. > :45:39.allowance. I think there is a clear link between social disadvantage
:45:39. > :45:42.and educate -- educational attainment. There is a need for
:45:42. > :45:46.intervention of some sort to encourage young people and give an
:45:46. > :45:52.incentive to stay on in education particularly in these economic
:45:52. > :45:58.times. It is important for young people to get qualifications to
:45:58. > :46:02.make them more employable. Your colleague is working closely with
:46:02. > :46:08.Stephen Farry to negotiate a path through this change. If the change
:46:08. > :46:15.to the allowance targeted those in most need and left out are those
:46:15. > :46:21.who do not need it, that would be better, we Det? Like every scheme
:46:21. > :46:24.are there has to be a review to see how effective it is. The students
:46:24. > :46:28.that I have talked who are worried about the changes and are confused
:46:28. > :46:34.about what will happen and it is important that we have that
:46:34. > :46:37.incentive for people. I know that Sinn Fein are in favour of it and I
:46:37. > :46:43.have yet to be convinced that any of the options in the consultation
:46:43. > :46:48.will be better. She is yet to be convinced. Yes, we will have to
:46:48. > :46:53.review what comes back from the consultation. We do have to find
:46:53. > :46:55.savings across a range of different programmes. We have to shift
:46:55. > :47:00.resources from weather been used inefficiently to where they can
:47:00. > :47:03.make a difference. When savings are found, they will be reinvested in
:47:03. > :47:07.young people, they will not be put into another area of government
:47:07. > :47:13.activity. This is about investing in young people and we're doing
:47:13. > :47:18.more than anywhere else in the UK on this issue. Stay with us. Thank
:47:18. > :47:22.you. We are going to move on to another issue, should 16 euros get
:47:22. > :47:25.the vote? In Scotland it will get the opportunity to vote in the
:47:25. > :47:30.independence referendum. Sinn Fein and the Green Party think the time
:47:30. > :47:33.is right to lower the voting age here and have raised the issue. We
:47:33. > :47:38.caught up with some young people on a visit to Stormont this week to
:47:38. > :47:45.see what they thought. I do not think there is any difference.
:47:45. > :47:49.There is no difference in maturity levels. What is the difference?
:47:49. > :47:52.do not believe that 16 year-olds have the responsibility to make an
:47:52. > :47:58.informed decision about who should represent them because I think
:47:58. > :48:03.they're more likely to be swayed by things like fashion or how they
:48:03. > :48:08.appear and will not look into the candidates. I think it would bring
:48:08. > :48:11.a more into education and people would know more about it. You can
:48:11. > :48:18.buy a lottery ticket and joined the army so why should she not be able
:48:18. > :48:24.to vote? They should have the right to voice their opinion. It is a
:48:24. > :48:31.difficult enough question it occurs some people are more mature than
:48:31. > :48:37.others. It raises issues of quality. Ageism is a huge thing right now.
:48:38. > :48:42.It is reverse ageism. Reverse ageism. There you go. The Assembly
:48:42. > :48:50.motion is in fact signed in your name. It is due to be discussed on
:48:50. > :48:55.Tuesday. Why do you think 16 euros here should be voting? I think it
:48:55. > :48:59.is about giving young people a voice, giving them the ability to
:48:59. > :49:02.take part in the democratic process and have at the right to vote. We
:49:02. > :49:07.have an opportunity to send out a message that young people, their
:49:07. > :49:11.voice matters, and it is as relevant as anyone else's. There is
:49:11. > :49:15.as serious issue of apathy among young people that has to be
:49:15. > :49:18.addressed. By lowering the voting age we conspire in interest and may
:49:18. > :49:24.be grounds for future political engagement which is essential for
:49:24. > :49:29.the future. A what is wrong with that? Statistics show that the
:49:29. > :49:33.lowest turnout at election time is amongst people aged between 18 and
:49:33. > :49:38.25. The argument that is being put forward is that if we lower it,
:49:38. > :49:41.that will in some way address apathy and increase turnout. If the
:49:41. > :49:47.people two years older are not voting, why would the people
:49:47. > :49:51.younger than that be more inclined to vote? Perhaps they feel that
:49:51. > :49:55.they're not being taken seriously and if you say that we do care we
:49:55. > :49:58.think and let 16 year-olds boat, they would feel that they are being
:49:58. > :50:04.listened to and that people want to hear their voice and they would go
:50:04. > :50:08.out to vote. You were politically active when you were a teenager.
:50:08. > :50:10.think that that is a challenge for political parties to demonstrate
:50:10. > :50:15.that they take young people seriously and certainly my own
:50:16. > :50:20.party, my experience has been that every young person comes forward
:50:20. > :50:27.who has interest and talent they will be encouraged. So why not let
:50:27. > :50:31.them vote early? I think that there is a false premise on which the
:50:31. > :50:35.argument that reducing the age to 16 will in some way inspire young
:50:35. > :50:41.people or increase turnout, I do not see that based on strong
:50:41. > :50:47.evidence. Is there evidence for it? He is right when he says the 18 to
:50:47. > :50:56.25 year olds are generally do tend to be pretty apathetic. In parts of
:50:56. > :51:02.Austria were you can vote at 16, the turnout has been a lot higher.
:51:02. > :51:05.My whole issue with this is that there should be a vote of
:51:05. > :51:09.confidence in young people. Young people are mature enough and
:51:09. > :51:14.informed enough and articulate and smart enough to make informed
:51:14. > :51:17.decisions. Politicians deal with issues, we have just discussed the
:51:17. > :51:21.Education Maintenance Allowance, issues are being discussed that
:51:21. > :51:26.affect young people so why should they not have a say and a vote is
:51:26. > :51:31.one of the best ways that anyone can influence what happens. Your
:51:31. > :51:37.party is broadly supportive of this? The Liberal Democrats are
:51:37. > :51:41.supportive as well. We should be supporting the motion on Tuesday.
:51:41. > :51:46.We have a crisis of democracy at the moment were young people are
:51:47. > :51:49.not voting at the same volumes as their older peers. I do not see any
:51:49. > :51:53.difficulty in extending the franchise if it encourages young
:51:53. > :51:57.people to participate at an earlier stage, that is a good thing. We're
:51:58. > :52:02.looking at a whole range of issues that affect young people, it is
:52:02. > :52:07.important that they have their say, they can pay taxes at that age,
:52:07. > :52:13.they can marry, they can have children, they can join the armed
:52:13. > :52:16.forces... Can I say on that, one of the younger people there raised an
:52:16. > :52:21.idea, I think we should have an increased role of citizenship
:52:21. > :52:25.classes in schools, whereby people understand the value of the vote
:52:25. > :52:35.and the way it can make a difference. That is interesting.
:52:35. > :52:35.
:52:35. > :52:39.Thank you. Now it was half-term at Stormont
:52:39. > :52:43.but even though there was no business in the chamber, our
:52:43. > :52:52.politicians were busy. Here is our correspondent at the political wick
:52:52. > :52:59.macro. -- Week in 60 Seconds. In the Commons, the Prime Minister
:52:59. > :53:02.paid tribute to the army medic killed in Afghanistan. I think you
:53:02. > :53:06.stroke -- e spoke strongly and movingly on it and I think he is
:53:06. > :53:11.right that those in the medical regiment do a fantastic job. It has
:53:11. > :53:15.been an honour and privilege for me to meet some of them. Also at West
:53:15. > :53:25.Minister the government to, as rebels joined Labour to vote down
:53:25. > :53:26.
:53:26. > :53:30.the EU budget. They were helped by the DUP who hailed it as historic.
:53:30. > :53:37.In Belfast and you play opened based on the life of a new
:53:37. > :53:42.firebrand preacher politician called Ian Paisley. This city of
:53:42. > :53:47.culture gets a makeover. Hundreds of thousands of pounds even in the
:53:47. > :53:56.course of this year, for their heritage buildings, the listed
:53:56. > :54:01.buildings that so fully define the character of this great city.
:54:01. > :54:06.The tragedy of the past week of course it was the murder of David
:54:06. > :54:10.Black. That United local politicians in condemnation. It did
:54:10. > :54:14.more than unite politicians, it united the whole community. They
:54:14. > :54:19.are determined that these criminals will not be allowed to drag
:54:19. > :54:23.Northern Ireland backwards. Too many people have lived through the
:54:23. > :54:26.violence in the past and we do not want to go back to that. The war
:54:26. > :54:30.you pleased to see Martin McGuinness standing with Peter
:54:30. > :54:36.Robinson condemning what happened. Absolutely. My heart goes out to
:54:36. > :54:41.them. It is important that we stand shoulder to shoulder with each
:54:41. > :54:45.other and show that there is no appetite in society for this.
:54:45. > :54:49.you. One final subject for us, the American presidential election is
:54:50. > :54:56.on Tuesday, the campaign was suspended as Super Storm Sandy
:54:56. > :54:59.wreaked havoc. According to polls, it is a close call, but no matter
:54:59. > :55:03.who it is, Northern Ireland is certainly not on the political
:55:03. > :55:13.radar on the way it used to be. Let us look back at a time when trips
:55:13. > :55:29.
:55:29. > :55:33.across the Atlantic were And so I ask you to build on the
:55:33. > :55:36.opportunity you have before you, to believe that the future can be
:55:36. > :55:46.better than the past, to work together because you have so much
:55:46. > :55:56.
:55:56. > :56:06.more to gain by working together I welcome you here. I congratulate
:56:06. > :56:16.
:56:16. > :56:21.you for seizing the moment and That certainly brings back memories,
:56:21. > :56:26.it will probably not be like that anymore. You are a big fan of Mitt
:56:26. > :56:32.Romney, so I can say you are a Republican. A You are absolutely
:56:32. > :56:42.right. The election, any person who says they know how what will go is
:56:42. > :56:42.
:56:42. > :56:46.telling you lies. It is neck and neck. I think there are poles all
:56:46. > :56:52.over the place and I think it is a genuine cliffhanger and I do not
:56:52. > :56:57.know how it will go. One do you think that is? I think the
:56:57. > :57:00.circumstances are or, people in 2008 were prepared to give hope and
:57:00. > :57:04.change a real chance and over the course of the past four years and
:57:04. > :57:09.of a lot of people who thought there would be hope and changed
:57:09. > :57:12.think it has been more of the same and feel are disillusioned. It is a
:57:12. > :57:18.bit like 2004, you have an incumbent president who is not
:57:18. > :57:24.entirely popular, but you have an opponent whose huge chunk of the
:57:24. > :57:29.electorate are not persuaded on and it is then into genuine neck and
:57:29. > :57:33.neck territory in that regard. depends how many people bother to
:57:33. > :57:38.turn out and of course Super Storm Sandy could impact on that. Do you
:57:38. > :57:45.have a hunch if you have to plump one way or another? I am of the
:57:45. > :57:51.opinion that it is up to the American people to -- at who they
:57:51. > :57:56.decide on. President Obama's policies are more progressive, but
:57:56. > :57:59.it is up to the American people. Sinn Fein have had a good
:57:59. > :58:03.relationship with all the administrations and we hope we can
:58:03. > :58:08.continue the work with the peace process and encourage investment in
:58:08. > :58:13.Ireland. To come back to young people, do you think of that them
:58:13. > :58:18.of voting would have a big bearing? When you take Ohio, there are so
:58:18. > :58:23.many people here who are undecided that at this stage it will come
:58:23. > :58:27.down to what actually happens on the day President Obama I think so.
:58:27. > :58:33.Young people tend to have more liberal views so that might have an