:30:59. > :31:03.Hello. It has been branded a laughing stock and an obstacle to
:31:03. > :31:08.economic recovery, the planning process has taken many knocks, not
:31:08. > :31:12.least, over the time it takes to make a decision. Plans for a hotel
:31:12. > :31:17.and golf course near the Giant's Causeway have been considered for
:31:17. > :31:23.12 years. Now a decision is a minute, but dozens of other major
:31:23. > :31:26.developments are still stuck in the planning process. Do we have to pay
:31:27. > :31:36.an environmental price to benefit the economy? In a moment, we will
:31:37. > :31:37.
:31:37. > :31:44.hear from the minister. But first, with us for the next 20 minutes, we
:31:44. > :31:49.have at Lesley Macaulay, a member of the Conservative Party,
:31:49. > :31:55.Professor deja Heenan. Good morning to both of the year. Lesley, you
:31:55. > :32:00.jump ship from the Ulster Unionist Party two weeks ago. What made you
:32:00. > :32:04.go? I am very excited about our new party, the Northern Ireland
:32:04. > :32:09.Conservative Party. I am proud of the strategy that we have put
:32:09. > :32:14.together and our mission statement and our policies. But why did you
:32:14. > :32:19.leave the Ulster Unionists? I like what we are doing in Northern
:32:19. > :32:22.Ireland. We are building up a new policies and we are going to be
:32:22. > :32:25.making Northern Ireland into an Enterprise Zone. But those are not
:32:25. > :32:30.policies that are that much different from what the Ulster
:32:30. > :32:35.Unionists say they will do. We will have a direct link with the UK
:32:35. > :32:40.government and we will have a seat on the board of the Conservative
:32:40. > :32:45.Party. It does show for all of the political parties that you cannot
:32:45. > :32:49.take your support for granted. the last few years, the Ulster
:32:49. > :32:54.Unionist Party has been called a broad church. If we follow that
:32:54. > :32:59.analogy, people in Northern Ireland are losing faith in the broader
:32:59. > :33:05.church. You need to know what you Party stands for and you must unite
:33:05. > :33:09.behind that vision. The Ulster Unionists are in disarray. I think
:33:09. > :33:13.they need to get behind closed doors, sort out what the future of
:33:13. > :33:17.the party will look like, and if people at that stage want to leave,
:33:17. > :33:24.let them leave. This kind of public wrangling is unseemly and people
:33:24. > :33:29.are very switched off by it. When this article first appeared, should
:33:29. > :33:34.this have been done then? This has been going on for three weeks and
:33:34. > :33:39.it is the story that keeps on going. We needed decisive leadership at
:33:39. > :33:43.the start to bring people in to say, let's have a moratorium. There are
:33:43. > :33:51.lots of different stories and we have got to say, let's come
:33:51. > :33:57.together and decide what the issues are. Stay with us.
:33:57. > :34:01.He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. New plans for a
:34:01. > :34:10.shopping centre is just one of a number of proposals awaiting a
:34:10. > :34:14.decision by the Environment Minister.
:34:14. > :34:22.This area has been trading well through the recession, but the
:34:22. > :34:25.dynamic of this market town could be about to change. This
:34:25. > :34:34.development site on the outskirts has been in the pipeline for more
:34:34. > :34:40.than a decade. This week, Jim Shannon went to meet the
:34:40. > :34:43.Environmental Minister. For his part, Alex Attwood is giving
:34:43. > :34:48.nothing away, but I understand that he will make a final decision
:34:48. > :34:53.within weeks. If he gives it the go-ahead he will find himself, not
:34:53. > :34:57.for the first time, at war with the local town centre traders. Out of
:34:57. > :35:07.town retailing is doing nothing. It has a massive Betjeman's will
:35:07. > :35:13.affect. We do not know where these shoppers will come from. --
:35:13. > :35:15.detrimental effect. The Castlebawn proposal is being
:35:15. > :35:18.considered as an Article 31, a special category for major planning
:35:18. > :35:21.applications, the type most likely to be controversial and to end up
:35:21. > :35:25.at the Planning Appeals Commission or in court under judicial review.
:35:25. > :35:28.Another is the city airport's proposal to extend its runway.
:35:28. > :35:32.Ryanair pulled out over the delay in gaining permission. And that is
:35:32. > :35:42.not the only issue here. The impact of aircraft noise has caused a long
:35:42. > :35:45.running dispute between the airport and the residents. The Minister
:35:45. > :35:48.wants to break the logjam and to that end he's about to appoint a
:35:48. > :35:52.public examiner who'll study the levels of aircraft noise and report
:35:52. > :35:55.back to him in the summer. After that, it's likely that other issues
:35:55. > :36:03.like the airport's runway expansion plan will be able to move ahead
:36:03. > :36:10.thru the planning system. At the beginning of January, there were
:36:10. > :36:12.more than 50 major planning applications under Article 31.
:36:12. > :36:15.These include some of the most controversial developments in
:36:15. > :36:18.Northern Ireland. Alex Attwood has told his officials that he intends
:36:18. > :36:24.to clear at least half of these, and perhaps more, by the summer.
:36:24. > :36:29.What I have done is consistent with my authority and I have actively
:36:29. > :36:33.managed these applications. All of them count in a way that creates
:36:33. > :36:41.certainty. It brings people to a conclusion so that developers and
:36:41. > :36:46.communities and no one way or the other what will happen. --
:36:46. > :36:48.communities and no one way or the other.
:36:48. > :36:51.The Minister was hearing the concerns of environmentalists at an
:36:51. > :36:53.event in Stormont this week. Representatives of the construction
:36:53. > :36:55.industry were there also, and they say the Minister's commitment to
:36:55. > :36:57.efficiency is not replicated throughout planning. The main
:36:57. > :37:01.blockage has been the lack of individuals wanting to take
:37:02. > :37:08.decisions. What we need to see is an urgent fast-tracking of the
:37:08. > :37:11.planning reform. The way in which Northern Ireland's
:37:11. > :37:17.land and marine resources are managed is being overhauled, not
:37:17. > :37:20.least with the transfer of planning powers to local councils. The
:37:20. > :37:23.Minister has often said that he is looking across the water for
:37:23. > :37:26.inspiration. This leading expert in planning says a new vision is
:37:26. > :37:30.needed. What we have seen happening in the devolved UK is how the
:37:30. > :37:34.different planning regimes have tried to concentrate on how they
:37:34. > :37:40.might improve the efficiency and -- effectiveness and also the equity
:37:40. > :37:43.of planning. If we look to see what has been happening in Scotland,
:37:43. > :37:47.they have been working on the modernisation of the planning
:37:47. > :37:52.system for over 10 years. These things cannot happen overnight. We
:37:52. > :38:02.have to think of a culture change where all of the parties are
:38:02. > :38:03.
:38:03. > :38:08.involved in putting a planning system into action that will work.
:38:08. > :38:13.With me now is the environment minister. Let's look at the City
:38:13. > :38:19.Airport first of all. What can they tell us that Europe department
:38:19. > :38:23.cannot? Since 2006 there has been a legacy issue, long before I came
:38:23. > :38:28.into being a minister, that there was a nuisance issue with the
:38:28. > :38:33.airport. So I came in, and for the first time in a long time, there
:38:33. > :38:40.was some doubt. They had a public examination involving the abuse of
:38:40. > :38:45.the airport and the effect on the committee. -- the views. The
:38:45. > :38:49.significance of this is that there will be certainty for everyone and
:38:49. > :38:53.it will enable the airport, if it wishes to, to have for the
:38:53. > :38:57.commercial development. We can make a judgment on that at a certain
:38:57. > :39:03.time. Is that passing the buck said that you can tell residents that it
:39:03. > :39:08.it goes against them you can point the finger to England? There is a
:39:08. > :39:16.standard process where you bring in people to give advice. Why can we
:39:16. > :39:21.not assess so much noise? Why can we not do that? That I decide this
:39:21. > :39:26.is what we will do, then I would be in court, challenged by either the
:39:26. > :39:31.airport or the residents. In any case, this matter should be
:39:31. > :39:35.determined in a public process, giving everyone an opportunity to
:39:35. > :39:39.influence it, and then I will make a decision. I will not hide from
:39:39. > :39:43.the decision. I make decisions on critical issues that have been
:39:43. > :39:49.hanging around for too long. So you will go through all of these
:39:49. > :39:53.controversial issues, it gets decisions on them, but how can you
:39:53. > :39:59.assure the public that there will not be more court cases and three
:39:59. > :40:04.will be sitting here with no decision in another five years?
:40:04. > :40:08.People are entitled to challenge what they think is a bad policy and
:40:08. > :40:11.the courts can make a determination on that. What I hope is that
:40:11. > :40:16.because I have demonstrated, perhaps more than any other
:40:16. > :40:19.minister in recent times, a very firm commitment to our
:40:19. > :40:23.archaeological heritage at protecting the environment, and the
:40:23. > :40:29.cars come on the other hand, I have demonstrated that I am determined
:40:29. > :40:33.to make a planning application that is a economically significant,
:40:33. > :40:38.people might say that he has got the balance right. If I make a
:40:38. > :40:41.judgment call, they will take it to the courts. Has it been down to
:40:41. > :40:45.ministerial decisions in the past? I think there is too much
:40:45. > :40:49.challenging of our decisions through the courts. But how do you
:40:49. > :40:56.stop that? Is that the fundamental block, that the decisions are not
:40:56. > :40:59.made in a tight way? Why not have each side say their piece during
:40:59. > :41:04.the planning process and then the decision is made as much some
:41:04. > :41:14.people think there is too much say during the planning stage. There
:41:14. > :41:15.
:41:15. > :41:19.are people with the resources or the opportunity. I am a believer in
:41:19. > :41:27.reform. I believe that Northern Ireland has been served very well
:41:27. > :41:32.by reform. I will judge myself and hope that I am judged by that level
:41:32. > :41:36.of reform. I inherited 50 or so planning applications of
:41:37. > :41:46.significant economic development. 21st January and the end of
:41:47. > :41:47.
:41:47. > :41:52.February, one-quarter of those will have been decided. Between now and
:41:52. > :41:58.the end of the summer, are many more will be decided. You have to
:41:58. > :42:03.make decisions and make it in the right time and make sure that you
:42:03. > :42:09.protect the environment on one hand and make sure that the economy is
:42:09. > :42:13.fit. But out of the one that you have planned and made decisions on,
:42:13. > :42:19.you must have an idea of how those are going to go. What percentage of
:42:19. > :42:25.those will go to court? De and ask the developers and the applicants.
:42:25. > :42:30.-- go and ask. I cannot legislate against someone going out and
:42:30. > :42:37.seeking judicial review. The courts have responsibility here. I support
:42:37. > :42:41.very strongly that our courts now use judicial review to interrogate
:42:42. > :42:47.public policy decisions across policing, justice and planning. But
:42:47. > :42:54.maybe there is not an issue -- maybe there is an issue about the
:42:54. > :43:01.door being too widely opened and that should be more managing --
:43:01. > :43:06.were managed. I can apply good practice and ensure that no stone
:43:06. > :43:11.is left unturned to get those decisions out the door and also
:43:11. > :43:20.demonstrate that there is no compromise in going forward. Let's
:43:20. > :43:26.look at the research published this week. It says that accusations of
:43:26. > :43:31.corruption and indecisiveness in the planning service exists and
:43:31. > :43:35.that it is all in a shambles. think there is some truce -- truth
:43:35. > :43:41.in what they say. There is evidence that demonstrate the planning
:43:41. > :43:47.system is getting more and more fit for purpose. Over 90 % of wind
:43:47. > :43:51.farms have been approved. Nearly 85 % of individual wind turbines have
:43:51. > :43:56.been approved. I think that is a vital statistic and we should build
:43:56. > :44:01.on it. Renewables is the single biggest economic option that more
:44:01. > :44:07.than Ireland has given the quality of the tide and wind. We face the
:44:07. > :44:11.Atlantic. I think that is a snapshot of the view of insiders
:44:11. > :44:15.around the planning system. There is also good evidence, especially
:44:15. > :44:21.now that there is a new senior management team, that every stone
:44:21. > :44:26.is being unturned and there is dramatic reform similar to the
:44:26. > :44:34.Scottish system. Why has it taken so long? It should not have taken
:44:34. > :44:39.so long. But why did it take so long? You must know. It is not an
:44:39. > :44:44.easy decision. There is a world heritage status and that
:44:44. > :44:48.environment lobby is very strong and we have a lot to a value. In my
:44:49. > :44:52.view, there were parts of the planning system that do not bring
:44:52. > :44:57.forward advice in good time and that should not have happened, and
:44:58. > :45:01.in any case, there is a ministerial responsibility when it comes to
:45:01. > :45:06.planning applications to say to the planning system, it is time to make
:45:06. > :45:12.a decision so bring a foreword the advice. That is what I said. 10
:45:13. > :45:18.days ago I went out and walked the land and I looked at the Bush mills
:45:18. > :45:22.and the sand dunes along the Giant's Causeway and I will make a
:45:22. > :45:29.decision before Valentine's Day. I have some other business with
:45:29. > :45:32.family on Valentine's Day. Lesley, this is part of your constituency
:45:32. > :45:37.and where you live a. A wider people saying about the decision
:45:37. > :45:43.and do you think they will -- what are people saying about the
:45:43. > :45:49.decision and what do you think they will say? Planning needs to be
:45:49. > :45:53.faster and easier. A needs to be a more simple. From what I here,
:45:53. > :45:58.especially people in a bush Mills, they are saying they want this new
:45:58. > :46:02.golf resort. It is about jobs at the end of the day. It is going to
:46:02. > :46:11.be affecting the construction industry and long-term jobs for the
:46:11. > :46:16.wider community. We have to take into consideration lots of things
:46:16. > :46:21.that are important. We have to seem open for business. There are
:46:21. > :46:26.planning applications that have been sitting there for two years.
:46:26. > :46:31.There are some that had been there for longer than that. A that part
:46:31. > :46:41.of the argument, we always have to decide between the economy and the
:46:41. > :46:41.
:46:41. > :46:45.environment? -- is that part of the argument. You cannot do what needs
:46:45. > :46:49.to be done without the proper infrastructure and the proper
:46:49. > :46:54.building blocks and the key to that is the planning system. The
:46:54. > :46:58.consultation around the review noted that Arab planning system was
:46:58. > :47:05.so expensive -- noted that our planning system was so expensive
:47:05. > :47:09.and outdated. It looks like it could be 2016 before we even see
:47:09. > :47:14.the decentralisation to district councils where they would be able
:47:14. > :47:21.to have a leadership on local issues. We cannot afford to wait
:47:21. > :47:29.until 2016 for reform. Reform is vital if we are going to get the
:47:29. > :47:34.economic reform we need. -- economic system we need. It has to
:47:34. > :47:40.be known that the system is tied up in bureaucracy and has been for 10
:47:40. > :47:45.years. The experts said it took Scotland 10 years. How do we change
:47:45. > :47:49.some of the things that were mentioned? We need to have a
:47:49. > :47:56.reformed system that is fit for purpose, a planning system that is
:47:56. > :48:01.fit for purpose. It needs to be faster and legally proofed in order
:48:01. > :48:05.to protect the environment and get decisions out the door. Delay has
:48:05. > :48:11.been a character of the planning system and it cannot be if we are
:48:11. > :48:15.going to go forward. But we have to simplify it and make it more
:48:15. > :48:19.understandable. That is why the planning system in Scotland, where
:48:19. > :48:21.they have a single policy statement with an overview from the
:48:21. > :48:27.government and a political statement about how it fits into
:48:27. > :48:31.the economy, is the way I will go. That will take me two years and in
:48:31. > :48:38.the meantime I will radically reform the planning system on a
:48:38. > :48:48.case by case, policy to policy basis. But you may not even be
:48:48. > :48:52.there for those two years. It will be an SDLP policy. When I came in,
:48:52. > :49:02.I took forward the SDLP government thinking. Whoever might successor
:49:02. > :49:08.might be, the critical issue is, will ministers be able to use their
:49:08. > :49:18.power. There are ministers who do not know the difference. Here is a
:49:18. > :49:20.
:49:20. > :49:23.look at our week in 60 seconds with The week began with David and Tom
:49:23. > :49:30.going head-to-head in a row that changed the political temperature
:49:30. > :49:34.at Stormont. I said it is cold in this part of the House! As David
:49:34. > :49:42.lost his job, the policing Board had other jobs to worry about, the
:49:42. > :49:51.ones that PSNI were offering to ex officers. The debate has to be had.
:49:51. > :49:55.Jobs were also to the fore when one council unveiled its �100 million
:49:55. > :50:01.investment package. People are frightened by it. Vince Cable
:50:01. > :50:08.dropped by to offer his support to local firms. And in Fermanagh, it
:50:08. > :50:12.was reported untapped gas could supply Northern Ireland for decades.
:50:12. > :50:22.Anything that has been when it offers cannot be bad. After years
:50:22. > :50:25.