:00:33. > :00:35.Hello and welcome to an extended Sunday Politics.
:00:36. > :00:38.The votes have been counted, the new 90-strong Assembly's
:00:39. > :00:41.been filled and now the blood-letting begins.
:00:42. > :00:43.The Ulster Unionist leader Mike Nesbitt has already
:00:44. > :00:52.His resignation speech includes flash photography.
:00:53. > :00:59.The electorate disagreed, they did not give me a mind a big enough for
:01:00. > :01:02.me to feel justified in continuing in this position, so I shall not
:01:03. > :01:04.continue in this position. And could the DUP leader now be
:01:05. > :01:07.coming under pressure, too? I'll be asking newly-elected MLAs
:01:08. > :01:09.from the five big parties what next for Arlene Foster,
:01:10. > :01:12.and if they believe Stormont can get And we'll also hear from the smaller
:01:13. > :01:16.parties, the successful Independent Claire Sugden,
:01:17. > :01:19.and the Secretary of State - and we'll round everything off
:01:20. > :01:21.with analysis from our Political Editor, Mark Devenport,
:01:22. > :01:24.number-cruncher Nicholas Whyte and commentators Professor Pete Shirlow
:01:25. > :01:35.and Patricia MacBride. Well, it was an unprecedented
:01:36. > :01:37.election for many different reasons - the main one being that
:01:38. > :01:40.with the nationalist surge and the loss of unionist seats,
:01:41. > :01:43.there is now no longer a unionist Add in the reduced number of seats -
:01:44. > :01:49.down from 108 to 90 - and you have a recipe
:01:50. > :01:52.for major electoral upset. With that in mind, and just
:01:53. > :01:54.in case you've been hiding in a bunker all weekend,
:01:55. > :01:58.here's how things played out all through Friday
:01:59. > :02:02.and into the early hours The DUP remain the biggest party
:02:03. > :02:06.at Stormont on 28 seats - They only lost one seat -
:02:07. > :02:13.quite an achievement The SDLP are now the third
:02:14. > :02:16.largest party, coming back with a dozen seats,
:02:17. > :02:19.the same number of seats they held Next up - the Ulster Unionists
:02:20. > :02:23.on ten seats - a total that cost It was a good day for
:02:24. > :02:28.Alliance as they held The Greens held their two seats,
:02:29. > :02:32.while the TUV held its single seat, occupied by Jim Allister of course,
:02:33. > :02:34.while People Before Profit are reduced to a solo seat -
:02:35. > :02:38.Gerry Carroll in West Beflast. And there's one Independent -
:02:39. > :02:41.Claire Sugden, the former Justice Minister, who we'll
:02:42. > :02:46.hear from later. With just a whisker now separating
:02:47. > :02:49.the DUP and Sinn Fein in terms of seats and votes,
:02:50. > :02:52.the future shape of devolution and power-sharing will now be
:02:53. > :02:55.on the negotiation table. My guests will be reflecting on that
:02:56. > :02:58.in just a moment, but first our Political Correspondent,
:02:59. > :03:14.Enda McClafferty, has the story We have had dramatic collections
:03:15. > :03:24.before, but not quite like this. -- elections.
:03:25. > :03:30.So we now have 18 politicians officially unemployed and looking
:03:31. > :03:35.for a job, some with lots of experience, and some about. We also
:03:36. > :03:38.by the weight have jobs vacant seat which now needs to be filled sooner
:03:39. > :03:43.rather than later. But the real story from the selection is the
:03:44. > :03:48.power shift at Stormont with unionists for the first time ever no
:03:49. > :03:52.longer holding the majority. Arlene Foster predicted a brutal campaign
:03:53. > :03:57.but didn't expect such a brutal result for unionism. This election
:03:58. > :04:05.was a disaster for unionism, they've lost their overall majority and they
:04:06. > :04:10.may never regain it. From going from a powerful position only last May,
:04:11. > :04:15.2016, unionism is in crisis this morning. The DUP lost ten seed,
:04:16. > :04:25.dropping to 28. And some big names paid the price. Former minister
:04:26. > :04:31.Nelson McCausland. There is a life beyond politics, and other things I
:04:32. > :04:37.can do. Is that it now, is at finish? Did I say that? Remember
:04:38. > :04:41.this? When Arlene Foster was the darling of the DUP in the last
:04:42. > :04:46.election. Roll the clock forward ten months and another new leader is
:04:47. > :04:51.entering the spotlight. I think it is amazing, we are delighted, thank
:04:52. > :04:54.you, you have come out in strong numbers. The vote has increased,
:04:55. > :05:03.people know action needed to be taken. Sinn Fein's gamble paid off,
:05:04. > :05:08.as their vote rose by 4%. They sold their selection on hold and resolve
:05:09. > :05:12.issues of equality and legacy and all the things that have been
:05:13. > :05:17.blocked by the DUP the many years, and people will be expecting
:05:18. > :05:25.delivery. There will be a period of grace, where they knew we were going
:05:26. > :05:30.into negotiations. And if Sinn Fein is to deliver, will it be when
:05:31. > :05:34.Arlene Foster as business? I think the difficulty is there is now
:05:35. > :05:40.there's a very firm image, a caricature of her as a hate figure,
:05:41. > :05:45.someone who is too extreme to do business with nationalism. That is
:05:46. > :05:50.damaging for her, it helped her in the campaign for the boat, but now
:05:51. > :05:55.that is a huge difficulty for her. The DUP leader wasn't the only one
:05:56. > :05:59.feeling the heat. Even before the count ended, Mike Nesbitt knew the
:06:00. > :06:05.game was up. Losing six seats and falling behind the SDLP in the
:06:06. > :06:11.political order sealed his fate. For three months I have been criticising
:06:12. > :06:16.another party leader for not taking responsibility for actions that
:06:17. > :06:19.occurred on their watch, so it would be the height of hypocrisy about
:06:20. > :06:26.didn't take full responsibility for the results to date for the Ulster
:06:27. > :06:32.Unionists. In pure terms, the buck stops here. But he was in the
:06:33. > :06:45.party's only big casualty. Enoch Powell said our political career
:06:46. > :06:50.ends in tears. I think I prefer that I am too tired to laugh and too old
:06:51. > :06:53.to cry. They now have an Assembly team that is very light in terms of
:06:54. > :07:00.experience, they got no leader, it'll be a challenge to get that in,
:07:01. > :07:05.and I think, what is the direction for them? What now for the official
:07:06. > :07:10.opposition? The SDLP had a good election, retaining its trial seeds
:07:11. > :07:15.of a few familiar faces making a comeback. But it came at a cost,
:07:16. > :07:20.they no longer have an Assembly boys in west Belfast. I feel much more
:07:21. > :07:30.for the party and people in the committee then I do for myself --
:07:31. > :07:35.Assembly voice. Warning signs, where the SDLP was appalled by Sinn Fein.
:07:36. > :07:42.So can we expect the party to return to the opposition benches? That
:07:43. > :07:47.remains open to DSL DP, it depends on the nature of any agreement that
:07:48. > :07:53.is reached between Sinn Fein and the DUP. It was also a good election for
:07:54. > :07:57.Alliance, as they record of the highest vote in decades. We talked
:07:58. > :08:01.about what we would do differently and how we would try to re-establish
:08:02. > :08:05.the Assembly on a different photo where it would be sustainable and
:08:06. > :08:11.able to deliver. People respond that I connected with the message. The
:08:12. > :08:16.Green Party held its two seats, and Claire Sugden is also returning. But
:08:17. > :08:22.for the TUV, it was another election which, failed to convince doubters
:08:23. > :08:29.to return more than one candidate. And disappointment for People Before
:08:30. > :08:32.Profit, who lost their seat. This was the election where voters
:08:33. > :08:38.re-engage the politics, as the turnout was up ten percentage points
:08:39. > :08:43.on the last poll. So what do voters make the result? I thought it was
:08:44. > :08:48.grey, the number of women across all the parties and a lot younger
:08:49. > :08:54.people, so I am trying to be very optimistic, and they hope to get
:08:55. > :09:00.together and get some deal. It is a shake-up. I think Arlene was wrong
:09:01. > :09:05.in her attitudes and aggression. And I feel she should have stepped
:09:06. > :09:12.aside. Unionism is dysfunctional at the moment, it lacks leadership and
:09:13. > :09:18.direction. Being a DUP voter, I can see it. The focus now switches to
:09:19. > :09:20.Stormont where tomorrow MLAs will return to face the same challenges
:09:21. > :09:23.they left behind six weeks ago. They're still the "big five"
:09:24. > :09:26.parties in political terms, but the distances between them,
:09:27. > :09:30.and even their order, has changed. I'm joined now by Simon
:09:31. > :09:33.Hamilton of the DUP, Sinn Fein's Conor Murphy,
:09:34. > :09:36.Claire Hanna of the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Robin Swann
:09:37. > :09:48.and the Alliance leader, Weight you are all very welcome to
:09:49. > :09:54.the programme. Flank either being here today. Arlene Foster has use to
:09:55. > :09:59.it weakest position in the history of Northern Ireland, it has lost its
:10:00. > :10:03.overall majority at Stormont. It was a disappointing election, not just
:10:04. > :10:08.for the DUP, with the whole unionist family. Let's not forget there were
:10:09. > :10:12.lots of addictions before the election, many taking place in the
:10:13. > :10:17.studio, that the DUP's boat would crumble, it went up by 20 5000. We
:10:18. > :10:22.have had the single biggest vote of any party since the return of the
:10:23. > :10:28.Assembly back in 1998. Sadly that vote not been converted into more
:10:29. > :10:32.seats than the 28 we had. But we still have a big mandate, we saw the
:10:33. > :10:38.biggest party. We have to reflect on the lessons of that election and we
:10:39. > :10:46.will do it in due course. Your boat was up, but your share was your role
:10:47. > :10:53.vote was up. You are down 1.1%. Many were saying our vote would go down,
:10:54. > :10:58.it went up. It went down by 1.1%. How much of the responsibility for
:10:59. > :11:03.what was a disappointing day, you just said it, it should be put on
:11:04. > :11:10.Arlene Foster? Gavin Robinson said a bad day be unionism. Not a good day
:11:11. > :11:17.for the DUP. A bad day at the office. You've got to sit down and
:11:18. > :11:22.think, we hung the campaign on Hollywood Foster, critics said she
:11:23. > :11:26.didn't conduct herself well, she made mistakes. You've lost ten
:11:27. > :11:30.seats. It is disappointing we've lost so many seed, that so many
:11:31. > :11:34.colleagues and returning. We will look at the lessons of this, we will
:11:35. > :11:38.reflect on it. Could one of those lessons may be be Arlene Foster
:11:39. > :11:44.isn't as sure-footed as maybe you thought she was? Absolutely not.
:11:45. > :11:49.I've known Arlene for many years, she's very capable. You still think
:11:50. > :11:55.that? She has shown that down the years. She has shown it in her
:11:56. > :11:59.leadership, not just of the DUP but Northern Ireland. She has my full
:12:00. > :12:04.support, she has the support of the party and most importantly, she has
:12:05. > :12:09.the support of 225,000 people across Northern Ireland who voted for the
:12:10. > :12:15.DUP. They increased the mandate. It hasn't been converted into as many
:12:16. > :12:20.seats. She also galvanise Republicans, say many. That is why
:12:21. > :12:23.Sinn Fein did well. Jonathan explainers, Sinn Fein seized an
:12:24. > :12:30.opportunity that was presented around this. That was the excuse
:12:31. > :12:37.they use the calling the election, there were many reasons.
:12:38. > :12:45.There were bigger issues. That is what people... When I was going
:12:46. > :12:51.around the doors, people realise this was much more than it was about
:12:52. > :12:56.it. They knew what Sinn Fein was doing, so our vote increase.
:12:57. > :13:02.Disappointingly that wasn't translated into the number of seeds
:13:03. > :13:08.we would like. We were expected to lung some -- lose some of the seeds.
:13:09. > :13:16.You are down to 28, unionism has 44% of the seats in the chamber, where
:13:17. > :13:20.it used to have more than 50%. This is an important question. Which is
:13:21. > :13:26.more important... I can't believe you thought it would be a good idea
:13:27. > :13:30.to go below 50%. That is the first time you've done that since 1921.
:13:31. > :13:35.You can't tell me it isn't significant. Which is more important
:13:36. > :13:39.to you, retaining Arlene Foster in a position of leadership as First
:13:40. > :13:44.Minister or the future of devolved government? If you have to make a
:13:45. > :13:48.choice, which do you go for? We did set a benchmark, we said it would be
:13:49. > :13:53.a close election. People mocked those, people laughed at us, said we
:13:54. > :14:00.were crying wolf. You've made that point. The message coming back to me
:14:01. > :14:03.in the election, to all of my colleagues and everyone here today,
:14:04. > :14:07.in spite of the differences we have, people want to see a functioning and
:14:08. > :14:14.working Assembly delivering for them. I do need you do and this
:14:15. > :14:21.question, I will tease it out more. Sinn Fein are not prepared to work
:14:22. > :14:26.with Arlene in an executive, she can continue in her leadership, but they
:14:27. > :14:31.won't work with as an executive. I'm asking you now, and I want you to be
:14:32. > :14:36.clear, if that continues to be the case, is it possible, as Gavin
:14:37. > :14:40.Robinson suggested on the radio last night, that may be Arlene Foster
:14:41. > :14:45.might just consider stepping aside to allow devolution to be restored?
:14:46. > :14:51.The God we want to see devolution restored, the working Assembly
:14:52. > :14:55.delivering -- we want to see devolution restored. It is not the
:14:56. > :15:03.Sinn Fein to dictate who our nominee is. It is not reasonable to do so.
:15:04. > :15:09.The DUP could have objective. Gavin Robinson said he wasn't ruling it
:15:10. > :15:14.out if it was the decision by Arlene Foster, they would back. The party
:15:15. > :15:20.does support. Should she step aside to make sure the devolution is
:15:21. > :15:24.restored? No, she shouldn't. She has my support, she has the party's
:15:25. > :15:31.support and most importantly, she has the support of 225,000 people
:15:32. > :15:36.who voted for her and the party. It is Arlene or nobody? I want Arlene
:15:37. > :15:41.to listen to the talks. I want to see her going back into government.
:15:42. > :15:48.How do you respond to that? If it is the position of the DUP during these
:15:49. > :15:53.negotiations, life will not be breezed back into the Executive. You
:15:54. > :15:56.have drawn a line in the sand by saying that Sinn Fein will not work
:15:57. > :16:01.with Arlene Foster in an Executive this side of the enquiry. That
:16:02. > :16:06.hasn't changed? When you look at the opening piece of your programme
:16:07. > :16:20.today, I think we have a recipe for power-sharing. We have power blocs
:16:21. > :16:25.in the Assembly with an equal basis. We have to get our act together,
:16:26. > :16:27.ensure that the Assembly and the Executive working. The message
:16:28. > :16:32.received on the doorstep is all of that but also included that we have
:16:33. > :16:36.to go back and ensure that it's based on the agreements that were
:16:37. > :16:40.previously agreed to at the implication of those. You accept the
:16:41. > :16:45.point that it is nothing to do with Michelle O'Neill or any of the rest
:16:46. > :16:49.of your Assembly team who leads the DUP? We not dictating who leads the
:16:50. > :17:00.DUP. But you are deep rating that she will not be First Minister? The
:17:01. > :17:14.DUP will have two decide... So you are dictating? To continue with
:17:15. > :17:21.that, if Sinn Fein nominates Arlene Foster as First Minister,, your
:17:22. > :17:28.leader will not work with her as Deputy First Minister? Sinn Fein
:17:29. > :17:34.will not support that nomination. So that is a red line as far as Sinn
:17:35. > :17:42.Fein is concerned? That is an obstacle to devolution. You are
:17:43. > :17:47.saying, here is Aaron line in the sand, we are not willing to accept
:17:48. > :17:51.that part of the process. She cannot be First Minister. We were clear on
:17:52. > :17:56.the doorstep, we were clear during the election, we have a mandate
:17:57. > :18:00.which just told us, and we said to the people that we would not support
:18:01. > :18:09.Arlene Foster as joint First Minister. So they should respect
:18:10. > :18:19.your mandate, but you do not respect hers? The DUP can nominate whoever
:18:20. > :18:22.they want as First Minister. If they nominate Arlene Foster ahead of the
:18:23. > :18:29.publication of the RHI report, Sinn Fein will not support that. How do
:18:30. > :18:34.you respond to that? We're heading into talks and negotiations, had
:18:35. > :18:40.we've gone through many over the last number of years. Often, people
:18:41. > :18:44.have said... They say it is impossible to find a way through the
:18:45. > :18:49.difficulties we face. We will go into those talks in the upcoming
:18:50. > :18:55.week... But you are not saying there is a line in the sand today that
:18:56. > :19:00.Arlene Foster would not step aside? You are leaving wiggle room to say,
:19:01. > :19:05.maybe if necessary during the negotiation, we may submit to what
:19:06. > :19:14.Sinn Fein is saying if they want to resurrect evolution? We have
:19:15. > :19:17.received a mandate, a strong mandate which has increased from the last
:19:18. > :19:20.election, although that has not increased the number of seats. We
:19:21. > :19:26.are still the leading party within the Assembly, and Arlene has
:19:27. > :19:30.received that mandate and endorsement of her dealership. I
:19:31. > :19:34.want to see her not only leading us into the talks to restore
:19:35. > :19:43.devolution, which is what people want. We don't... I understand that.
:19:44. > :19:47.You make that point. We want to get devolution back up and running. I
:19:48. > :19:51.will make this point. As I said at the start of my interview, there is
:19:52. > :19:56.a recipe within the Assembly for a stable Assembly and a stable
:19:57. > :20:00.Executive. We cannot ignore the issues that brought the election
:20:01. > :20:06.about, alleged corruption at the heart of government. There is in
:20:07. > :20:09.competent at the heart of government. The increased turnout at
:20:10. > :20:19.the polls shows that the public were very tuned into the discussion.
:20:20. > :20:25.Final sentence. We cannot have a kind of power-sharing he is talking
:20:26. > :20:28.about, when you have diktats about who heads up the DUP in government.
:20:29. > :20:32.We have heard a lot from Sinn Fein over the last couple of weeks. He is
:20:33. > :20:42.entitled to have a negotiating position. I hear lots coming from
:20:43. > :20:45.Sinn Fein about respect, but they are not respecting the mandate that
:20:46. > :20:50.the DUP has received. There are other people at the table who have
:20:51. > :20:54.mandate as well. Claire Hanna, you had a strong performance in the
:20:55. > :20:58.SDLP, stronger than people were expecting, perhaps more than you
:20:59. > :21:02.were expecting. You kept the 12 seats. What do you make of the
:21:03. > :21:07.difficulties with the two main parties in terms of whether or not
:21:08. > :21:09.it is going to be possible, giving the positions they have backed
:21:10. > :21:18.themselves into, it seems to me, whether Stormont can function again
:21:19. > :21:22.in the short-term? We're sitting without a budget or a Brexit plan.
:21:23. > :21:28.The two parties beside me did get the largest mandate. Is this a lot
:21:29. > :21:33.of bluff and bluster this morning? We need to know which of these
:21:34. > :21:38.issues is red hot and so on. It is fair to say that Arlene Foster was
:21:39. > :21:43.the name that came up on most of the doorsteps we knocked on. Not in a
:21:44. > :21:48.positive way? Absolute disrespect for anybody who did not share her
:21:49. > :21:58.view, whether in Brexit or identity issues. People will take it... Find
:21:59. > :22:08.it difficult to have her as First Minister. It is up to Arlene Foster
:22:09. > :22:12.and the DUP. People thought it was worth having an election, and we
:22:13. > :22:18.hope that they will look at the bigger picture. That is an issue for
:22:19. > :22:28.that party to decide. Can I ask you this? Would you take a seat in the
:22:29. > :22:36.Executive? We're going into government in May. We are not up
:22:37. > :22:41.for, take it or leave it, here are the scraps. You would want to be in
:22:42. > :22:46.the Executive, that things need to change? Absolutely. Some of the
:22:47. > :22:49.reforms have become academic in terms of the DUP not being able to
:22:50. > :22:55.throw petitions of concern around everywhere they want to. In May, and
:22:56. > :22:58.over the last few years, there were issues we try to bring through the
:22:59. > :23:02.Executive and put into the programme for government and we were rebuffed
:23:03. > :23:06.by the two parties, who did not want to negotiate. Secondly, as is well
:23:07. > :23:11.documented, we did not have access to the same information. Decisions
:23:12. > :23:14.were made by the two large parties in advance. We are for it but we
:23:15. > :23:22.will not have the power excluding government that we had for a lot of
:23:23. > :23:30.the last ten years. Robin Swann, it is fair to say that it was nothing
:23:31. > :23:34.short of a disaster? I don't fix. We only had three months to work in the
:23:35. > :23:41.Executive. We were only there for a short amount of time. We were
:23:42. > :23:45.becoming effective. The voters passed their judgment on Thursday,
:23:46. > :23:50.and they did not look favourably on the Ulster Unionist Party. And like
:23:51. > :23:56.it or not, Mike Nesbitt has fallen on his sword. The voters increased
:23:57. > :24:06.our vote and a percentage vote on Thursday as well. You say he fell on
:24:07. > :24:12.his sword, but he showed the character of leadership in his
:24:13. > :24:21.utility, taking the ultimate decision, he said the buck stopped
:24:22. > :24:23.with him. He said he would not go any further because you across
:24:24. > :24:29.possibility for the leadership. Someone else has to take up the
:24:30. > :24:39.mantle. And then Mike Nesbitt will move on to pastures new, and we have
:24:40. > :24:48.-- we had a conversation on the election night, you told me it would
:24:49. > :24:52.be up to Mrs Swan as to whether or not your name would be in the hat.
:24:53. > :25:01.What was her decision? I've spoken to her another times. Is the first
:25:02. > :25:09.time I seen her in a number of weeks. She will have about at our
:25:10. > :25:14.AGM on the 8th of April. She has a lot of power! If my name is on the
:25:15. > :25:18.ballot paper, I hope she will be voting for me. Is that a distinct
:25:19. > :25:28.possibility? Let's be honest, uni have ten people to choose from, some
:25:29. > :25:36.of them are only just in the door. There is a misconception out there.
:25:37. > :25:40.Jenny might. Who knows? It could be somebody else. It is more than
:25:41. > :25:46.likely to be of the SMB team. You're not ruling yourself up? I'm not at
:25:47. > :25:50.this stage. You will have a lot of work to do if you are taking the
:25:51. > :25:52.reigns over from Mike Nesbitt, because it was a disappointing
:25:53. > :25:57.performance. You will not argue with that, will you? I will not argue.
:25:58. > :26:04.But we did have some good results. Jon Stewart took a seat of Sinn
:26:05. > :26:12.Fein. The number of constituencies where we were coming in... We could
:26:13. > :26:17.be looking at Michael Henderson in south Belfast. The reality is it was
:26:18. > :26:24.a mighty seat Assembly. We are there as the sixth candidate in a number
:26:25. > :26:31.of constituencies. It is case of increasing that vote. In my
:26:32. > :26:37.constituency, we increased our first preference vote by 36%. A solid
:26:38. > :26:44.performance by Alliance, you had eight seats, and you held onto
:26:45. > :26:49.those, and your vote was up 2%. As I made the point earlier, the number
:26:50. > :26:54.of people voting was up substantially. How percentage was
:26:55. > :26:58.also up, today is the highest since 1987. Regardless of the vote being
:26:59. > :27:02.up, how share bid was also increased, which is significant.
:27:03. > :27:09.Mixed messages as far as the middle ground. You're pleased with that. I
:27:10. > :27:15.don't think there is mixed messages in the middle ground. That is not
:27:16. > :27:18.fair. If you include the Ulster Unionist Party as part of the middle
:27:19. > :27:25.ground... You can't, they were part of the hammering that Unionism took.
:27:26. > :27:31.If you look at the middle ground in terms of the Greens, ourselves and
:27:32. > :27:32.so on, we held our ground and increased our overall proportional
:27:33. > :27:38.representation at the Assembly. I think those parties that are not
:27:39. > :27:40.aligned did better than the Unionist parties. I don't think you can lump
:27:41. > :27:46.that together. I think the differential turnout did benefit
:27:47. > :27:50.nationalists parties, and the STL be benefited from that. Because Sinn
:27:51. > :27:56.Fein got their vote out. Arlene Foster is to thank for that. As far
:27:57. > :28:01.as the future of your party is concerned, you're part of the
:28:02. > :28:05.opposition last time, but not the official opposition. Would you want
:28:06. > :28:10.to be part of that, or would you like the Ulster Unionist 's and SDLP
:28:11. > :28:19.to be part of that with you, or will you be in a minority as far as the
:28:20. > :28:22.official opposition be concerned? We will see what happens. There is no
:28:23. > :28:27.indication that it is possible to get an Executive. I think one thing
:28:28. > :28:30.we've learned from this election is people digging in around
:28:31. > :28:34.personalities is a bad choice. If the DUP do not realise that now,
:28:35. > :28:40.they will never realise that. If you look back with the benefit of high
:28:41. > :28:45.-- of hindsight, people would have preferred a step down by Arlene
:28:46. > :28:53.Foster in December brother than the note down in the election. That is
:28:54. > :29:00.not what happened. No, but to dig in around personalities is the wrong
:29:01. > :29:02.route to take. The public see the opportunity for power-sharing to be
:29:03. > :29:07.restored, for progressive politics in this Assembly. The addition of
:29:08. > :29:11.concern is not theoretical, it needs to be addressed, it can still be
:29:12. > :29:15.abused in its current form and that needs to stop. There is the
:29:16. > :29:21.opportunity for us to move forward on a whole host of issues. The
:29:22. > :29:25.public will judge anyone, including Sinn Fein, harshly if they do not
:29:26. > :29:32.take the opportunity presented to make that deliver for them. You are
:29:33. > :29:35.a former party leader, for a time, served as Justice Minister, and the
:29:36. > :29:40.decision was made not to do that in the previous short mandate and went
:29:41. > :29:43.to Claire Sugden instead. To you like the sound of Naomi Long as
:29:44. > :29:48.Justice Minister? You could be offered it.
:29:49. > :29:55.We are not interested whether it goes elsewhere, we are interested in
:29:56. > :29:59.the quality of government we get. We were clear the basis on which we
:30:00. > :30:02.were willing to participate in government and have been willing to
:30:03. > :30:06.pass it in spades on previous occasions where those conditions
:30:07. > :30:10.were met. They would not be met. What we found actually with the
:30:11. > :30:13.collapse of the executive was our estimation of how that executive
:30:14. > :30:18.would play out, it will be dominated by the DUP, they wouldn't show
:30:19. > :30:23.respect, it was proven to be correct. Just briefly, you must have
:30:24. > :30:28.a sense whether you'd like to be inside the executive all out
:30:29. > :30:32.criticising it? What's your hunch? It is not about hunch is, it is
:30:33. > :30:36.fact, if the executive is willing to be progressive and deliver on the
:30:37. > :30:39.issues we are concerned about and to be a proper executive, we would
:30:40. > :30:45.consider if there were opportunities to be part of it. If there are not,
:30:46. > :30:50.we are quite happy to sit in opposition and to do that job
:30:51. > :30:56.effectively. I think we were effective, despite not being in
:30:57. > :31:01.official opposition. Simon Hamilton, D you fancy it at this stage a
:31:02. > :31:05.return to a grand coalition that had four or five parties involved, it
:31:06. > :31:10.would be better than the DUP, better for Sinn Fein because some of the
:31:11. > :31:14.sharp differences might be blurred and little bits in future if that
:31:15. > :31:19.were the case? Would you rather have everybody inside the tent rather
:31:20. > :31:23.than some of them out causing huge trouble? It is a matter for other
:31:24. > :31:29.parties... I know it is, I'm asking you what you think. It may be seen
:31:30. > :31:36.strange as we said here now at the last couple of months to see we had
:31:37. > :31:40.Sinn Fein and the DUP, they had been working quite effectively in
:31:41. > :31:45.government. But it fell apart in December in spectacular fashion.
:31:46. > :31:49.That's why I qualified my remarks. It is a matter for other parties
:31:50. > :31:55.whether they want to join the executive, but what we want to do,
:31:56. > :31:59.whether there are two parties, how many in the executive, if we can get
:32:00. > :32:02.it up and running, we have to get back to that effective delivery,
:32:03. > :32:07.that more joined up approach we were taken before it fell apart. That is
:32:08. > :32:12.the most important thing. People recognise progress had been made, we
:32:13. > :32:17.were working closer. That is a tall order, just say it won't make it
:32:18. > :32:25.happen. You can't waive your magic wand and see all that has been said
:32:26. > :32:30.in the past weeks. There are three things the government has a say, set
:32:31. > :32:35.a budget, have a plan for Brexit and sustain themselves. You didn't do
:32:36. > :32:41.any of them. I am not saying from December onwards it was a wonderful
:32:42. > :32:50.success, but up until then... The wheels came off the cart. There was
:32:51. > :32:54.a piece that said... It was job only executive achievement, it was an
:32:55. > :33:00.opinion piece. We need to get back to that. Regardless of how many are
:33:01. > :33:07.in the executive, we have to deliver on what matters to the people. Jobs
:33:08. > :33:10.and health education. The electorate have retained a recipe for
:33:11. > :33:17.power-sharing as envisaged under the terms. Sinn Fein wants to see
:33:18. > :33:21.power-sharing back at Stormont? There are people who think perhaps
:33:22. > :33:26.Sinn Fein privately has the view that direct rule might be better and
:33:27. > :33:34.it might deliver on some of those... You will scotch that? I want it
:33:35. > :33:37.removed completely. I want power-sharing returner, more powers
:33:38. > :33:41.given to the Assembly and the executive to run government. There a
:33:42. > :33:46.responsibility on all the parties around this table to enter the
:33:47. > :33:55.executive and share power together. It is our responsibility... There
:33:56. > :34:00.was leaking of executive papers... Not by us. Let me finish. One of the
:34:01. > :34:13.complaints as they didn't get the papers. The Ulster Unionist parties
:34:14. > :34:17.are on the middle ground, I'm trying to get my head around that comment.
:34:18. > :34:22.If you look at the landscape and Sinn Fein is at one end, the DUP at
:34:23. > :34:27.the other, it is not reasonable to talk about the middle ground as the
:34:28. > :34:32.other parties. We are at the end that's aboard equality and respect
:34:33. > :34:38.for all our citizens. I will state that. That is what our politics is
:34:39. > :34:44.based on. The three parties beside me, two of them, never supported the
:34:45. > :34:47.budget in ten years. There is a responsibility on all those who
:34:48. > :34:57.enter the executive to work the executive. How do you respond to
:34:58. > :35:02.that? Hang on. Executive papers were leaked and the SDLP never voted for
:35:03. > :35:08.a budget, even though you had administrators in your executive.
:35:09. > :35:13.You can't have it both ways. You can. You can't. We were out. All of
:35:14. > :35:17.the criticisms we made of the executive over the last two and a
:35:18. > :35:22.half terms have been borne out. We said there was a lack of delivery,
:35:23. > :35:30.corruption, power exclusion. Sinn Frain agreed avers, despite telling
:35:31. > :35:37.us it was just sour grapes but ten years -- agreed with us. I think it
:35:38. > :35:41.say we also have a mandate and shouldn't expect to go in and get
:35:42. > :35:47.crumbs from the mandate, little bits and pieces of information and not
:35:48. > :35:51.have any... It is fair to say everyone will look at the Assembly
:35:52. > :35:56.and seat two blocks of a third on the side and one block in the centre
:35:57. > :36:00.ground. I think that was borne out in the transfers that helped achieve
:36:01. > :36:06.a lot of those seats in that middle third, they came from all across
:36:07. > :36:11.acute unity and chose to people. Robin Swann, if you would a leader
:36:12. > :36:14.of Unionist party, which you want to be in the executive or part of the
:36:15. > :36:19.opposition? You wouldn't be Leader of the Opposition, would you want to
:36:20. > :36:25.be part of the opposition criticising the new executive? If
:36:26. > :36:32.this is the future government, this is what we will the exchange we
:36:33. > :36:38.had... Finish the sentence. If this is a future government, there is no
:36:39. > :36:43.hope. If you are part of it, you might get them to behave better.
:36:44. > :36:47.What we saw in the past was those withholding information, a budget
:36:48. > :36:52.not functioning, it was used to punish the smaller parties that were
:36:53. > :36:56.in the executive. The health minister never saw any additional
:36:57. > :37:05.money is coming to help. When the DUP took over help there were ?430
:37:06. > :37:09.million... 20 million withheld. Forgive me for wanting to speak on
:37:10. > :37:13.their behalf, but it might just think everyone needs to grow up
:37:14. > :37:19.around the table a little bit. Those who criticise the way the bigger
:37:20. > :37:22.bodies behave, but themselves are not beyond criticism. Everyone is
:37:23. > :37:29.talking about things being done differently. Is net everyone who
:37:30. > :37:36.need to do things differently? -- isn't it. We did support the budget
:37:37. > :37:40.in the executive. When we got the information in advance, got the
:37:41. > :37:43.opportunity to scrutinise it and negotiate our position. When the
:37:44. > :37:48.budget was dropped on our table half an hour before the vote in the
:37:49. > :37:53.Assembly, we didn't. Why would we? Who in their right mind would be
:37:54. > :37:57.bounced into accepting it, a budget they had no part in shaping? What we
:37:58. > :38:00.have said clearly from the outset, if you want to be partners in
:38:01. > :38:05.government, treat them like partners. If you want to treat
:38:06. > :38:15.people like they aren't your equal, then forget it, because we won't
:38:16. > :38:21.be... What happens next is? Budget process in 1998 saw the budget
:38:22. > :38:25.brought to the Assembly, put through scrutiny committees, voted on,
:38:26. > :38:29.change and amended at four different stages. Not simply presented as a
:38:30. > :38:37.done deal. That is where this executive needs to mandate. Sinn
:38:38. > :38:40.Fein and the DUP carved up the decisions outside the room, walked
:38:41. > :38:45.in, push them through, that is no way to run a government. I want to
:38:46. > :38:50.start looking back and start looking forward. We have a couple minutes
:38:51. > :38:57.left. James Brokenshire said there will be talks process sooner than
:38:58. > :39:02.later. Let me ask you, John, it looks like the man in the driving
:39:03. > :39:07.seat to move that process board is James Brokenshire, but you said he
:39:08. > :39:11.wasn't an honest broker. Will you be at the talks? He will be at the
:39:12. > :39:16.talks, but he's not there to check, he is there as a player. He is part
:39:17. > :39:20.of the problem, so he's got to be part of the solution. His commentary
:39:21. > :39:26.in the months leading up, in relation to Brexit, they have all
:39:27. > :39:31.worsen the problems we face in our society. He has issued the
:39:32. > :39:37.invitation is... Whether he issues invitations are not, there will be
:39:38. > :39:43.talks. So you will be boycotting the talks? The God he has to get it
:39:44. > :39:53.clear that he's not there as an independent -- he has to get it
:39:54. > :40:03.clear in his head. We need to deliver... I do believe it can be
:40:04. > :40:07.delivered. You are prepared to compromise on that if necessary? We
:40:08. > :40:11.are prepared to work on what people from Northern Ireland one, a
:40:12. > :40:17.functioning Assembly that is delivering on issues that are
:40:18. > :40:22.important with him. Claire Hanna, will you be there? Of course. He has
:40:23. > :40:27.not got the best interest of Northern Ireland regarding Brexit,
:40:28. > :40:31.and he has been an activist. I hope he will have the self-awareness to
:40:32. > :40:35.exclude himself. If you sending me e-mails out and issuing invitations,
:40:36. > :40:40.of course we will be participating. We desperately want things to work.
:40:41. > :40:44.Can they be made to work which marked the clock is ticking. Of
:40:45. > :40:51.course they can be made to a parties, the right attitude. Robin
:40:52. > :41:02.Swann? We will be at the talks. Will Mike Nesbitt rerunning it? No. What
:41:03. > :41:07.is his role? Mike as party leader until the AGM, so he will be there.
:41:08. > :41:12.There was a goal from Danny Kennedy to move the process back a little
:41:13. > :41:15.bit because you got an annual meeting up soon, it might bounce you
:41:16. > :41:22.into a quick decision. Should you take your time and think about it?
:41:23. > :41:28.Our AGM is the 9th of April and that is pencilled in. Naomi Long, what is
:41:29. > :41:35.your view on talks? You said you didn't like James Brokenshire's
:41:36. > :41:41.talks. We have to get around the table and make it work, because it
:41:42. > :41:45.will be James Brokenshire in charge, and it ever there was an argument
:41:46. > :41:50.why devolution needs to work, it is because the current man is not an
:41:51. > :41:51.impartial player when it comes to politics.
:41:52. > :41:58.Well, the focus now is on whether or not
:41:59. > :42:01.the newly-elected Assembly can produce a government.
:42:02. > :42:03.The Secretary of State, James Brokenshire,
:42:04. > :42:06.and the Irish Foreign Minister, Charlie Flanagan, have both pledged
:42:07. > :42:08.to work with the parties - and Mr Brokenshire made a short
:42:09. > :42:25.I just want to make a short statement. This week's election has
:42:26. > :42:28.demonstrated the clear desire by the overwhelming majority of people in
:42:29. > :42:32.Northern Ireland for inclusive devolved government. And I
:42:33. > :42:39.congratulate all those who'd been elected. Everyone now has a shared
:42:40. > :42:44.responsibility to engage intensively in the short days available to us to
:42:45. > :42:50.establish a strong and stable administration. Northern Ireland has
:42:51. > :42:55.made great strides forward over the past two decades, and all others
:42:56. > :42:57.must continue this work of building a stable, peaceful and prosperous
:42:58. > :43:04.Northern Ireland that works for everyone, based on the strong and
:43:05. > :43:08.solid foundations of the Belfast agreement, the Good Friday Agreement
:43:09. > :43:13.and its successors. It is with this positive intent that the government
:43:14. > :43:17.'s approach as the days ahead. I'll be speaking to party leaders later
:43:18. > :43:19.today and remaining in close contact with the Irish government.
:43:20. > :43:21.The Secretary of State re-iterating his commitment to devolution.
:43:22. > :43:24.And I'm joined now by a member of the previous Executive,
:43:25. > :43:30.the newly re-elected Independent MLA Claire Sugden.
:43:31. > :43:38.Congratulations to you first of all. It was a good performance, your vote
:43:39. > :43:45.was up about 1600 first preferences on last maple top how do you account
:43:46. > :43:50.for it? Was it your high profile? I have a very strong support within my
:43:51. > :43:54.own constituency. I've spent the past three years since becoming an
:43:55. > :44:01.MP getting out and no my constituents. I am delighted with my
:44:02. > :44:05.performance, 50% up on last year. Hopefully we can see how we will
:44:06. > :44:09.take the company board. Your decision to go into the executive
:44:10. > :44:14.worked in your favour because it looks like it didn't work in the
:44:15. > :44:17.favour of, for example, the Ulster Unionist party, a lot of people
:44:18. > :44:23.wondered whether something similar would happen to you in terms of your
:44:24. > :44:26.decision? But not so? I think my constituents were content I took the
:44:27. > :44:31.role because they saw the opportunity for them that I would
:44:32. > :44:39.have a seat at the table so I could influence decisions. You did admit
:44:40. > :44:44.to meet in an interview last week that you were very sorely let down
:44:45. > :44:47.by the DUP and Sinn Fein, they invited you into the executive, they
:44:48. > :44:51.couldn't function without you in the role of justice minister. They said
:44:52. > :44:55.they wanted to work in partnership, the whole thing collapsed when the
:44:56. > :44:59.wheels came off the cart in December. And you did say you felt
:45:00. > :45:06.let down. I was let down, they asked me to do a job and it away from me.
:45:07. > :45:11.Of course I was let down. You did make a mistake. You said I have no
:45:12. > :45:14.shopping list, I want to do the right thing to Northern Ireland.
:45:15. > :45:19.Maybe if you'd had had a shopping list and got in and said, I will do
:45:20. > :45:24.this but you got to do this and behave in a certain way. If you had
:45:25. > :45:36.said that and help them to it, maybe we wouldn't have had the election.
:45:37. > :45:43.Hopefully it will benefit me moving forward. If I had the opportunity, I
:45:44. > :45:49.would like to finish the job I started. That remains the case. It
:45:50. > :45:56.cannot just be about you. It has to be about what is right for Northern
:45:57. > :46:03.Ireland overall. It is not just about Claire Sugden's benefit. It is
:46:04. > :46:08.not just about me, and one of the hardest things you can do is stand
:46:09. > :46:12.for the Northern Ireland Assembly as an independent. It is not just about
:46:13. > :46:21.me. Apart from my red assessor, I'm the most experienced person for this
:46:22. > :46:26.job. I will be going into this... It is fair to say that previous to the
:46:27. > :46:31.scandal of RHI, Sinn Fein the DUP and myself were working successfully
:46:32. > :46:34.in government in a way that was unprecedented. I would like to find
:46:35. > :46:40.a way to get back to that space. You would like to be Justice Minister
:46:41. > :46:45.again? Yes. If it is offered to you by Sinn Fein and the DUP, would you
:46:46. > :46:48.not say to them, here is my shopping list, I want you to agree to my
:46:49. > :46:54.terms and conditions and a Petition of Concern. I want you to sign up to
:46:55. > :46:57.an agreement on how you behave in government and working together in
:46:58. > :47:00.partnership. If you don't do that, there is the possibility that the
:47:01. > :47:07.wheels will come off in another eight or ten months? I don't think
:47:08. > :47:11.my telling them to behave and grub will make them do that. What we need
:47:12. > :47:14.to do in these negotiations is work on that relationship between Sinn
:47:15. > :47:24.Fein and the DUP. It was not me that collapse the guy Executive. I
:47:25. > :47:26.thought that that relationship was strong, but clearly it was
:47:27. > :47:35.vulnerable. If we're going to move forward, they need to work on that
:47:36. > :47:40.relationship. What do you make... Do you think this could be made to work
:47:41. > :47:44.in three weeks? Do you get a sense that now the election is over,
:47:45. > :47:52.people trying to get out of the corners that people have painted
:47:53. > :47:55.themselves into? I think during an election to an extent, you take an
:47:56. > :47:59.awful lot of what is said with a pinch of salt. By BMI is that the
:48:00. > :48:01.DUP and Sinn Fein have backed themselves into a corner with the
:48:02. > :48:09.red lines they have suggested. But moving forward this is about them as
:48:10. > :48:12.much as it is about me, it is really about the people of Northern
:48:13. > :48:17.Ireland. I think that that is the message. We have had an increased
:48:18. > :48:23.ten more than ever, so we need people to get back to running the
:48:24. > :48:31.Government, because that is what we pay them for. Where you invited to
:48:32. > :48:38.the talks? He has been in touch, and I am eager to take him up on that.
:48:39. > :48:41.If he said EU, I would like you to be part of this process, you would
:48:42. > :48:46.be there? Of course. We need to find a way forward. It is not about party
:48:47. > :48:52.political interest, not about who is going to take what seats. We have to
:48:53. > :48:55.get our government back up and running. This is about governing for
:48:56. > :49:03.the people of Northern Ireland. It will be messy if James Brokenshire
:49:04. > :49:07.and three smaller parties and yourself, it will be difficult with
:49:08. > :49:13.everyone around the table. I like to think I'm a voice of reason. It is
:49:14. > :49:18.not going to be any less messy with the five of them up as well as the
:49:19. > :49:21.smaller parties and myself. We all need to be part of it because if we
:49:22. > :49:25.can move forward, we will be part of this process. We would not want to
:49:26. > :49:32.be in a situation where the Executive has collapsed again. How
:49:33. > :49:39.politics is fragile. We are still in our infancy. But you remain an
:49:40. > :49:43.optimist? We have do, it is not about us. It is about the people
:49:44. > :49:50.that voted us into these mandates last Thursday.
:49:51. > :49:53.And there were, of course, representatives of three smaller
:49:54. > :49:57.After his election the TUV leader, Jim Allister, said the results
:49:58. > :49:59.showed that unionists now need to rethink their views
:50:00. > :50:14.It is a day when we are seeing Sinn Fein advances, and there is no
:50:15. > :50:21.longer a majority control in the Assembly. That sends a message to
:50:22. > :50:34.the leaders of unionism and the people within it,... There will be
:50:35. > :50:43.asking themselves whether we really want to keep Stormont, at all
:50:44. > :50:49.unionists have to do some hard -- heart searching.
:50:50. > :50:52.Clare Bailey of the Green Party was the last MLA to be elected,
:50:53. > :50:54.with the South Belfast declaration made in the early hours
:50:55. > :50:57.Her party leader, Steven Agnew, told our Political Correspondent,
:50:58. > :50:59.Stephen Walker, that the key priority now is agreeing
:51:00. > :51:14.We will go back with a good green team, both here and in south
:51:15. > :51:16.Belfast. What I will be saying to all politicians, we have got to
:51:17. > :51:21.focus on the fact that those people or unprotected notice for their jobs
:51:22. > :51:24.will stop we need to get that security for those people who are
:51:25. > :51:30.waiting on a budget being agreed, and their jobs being confirmed. That
:51:31. > :51:33.should focus minds. And the time for the political power play is done, we
:51:34. > :51:37.need to get the Government back up and running. You are small party.
:51:38. > :51:40.People across Northern Ireland, people have backed the DUP and Sinn
:51:41. > :51:44.Fein to make them the biggest parties, backed them in their
:51:45. > :51:53.thousands. Why do green votes matter? There thousands of people
:51:54. > :51:54.who voted Green. It is important that everybody has a stake in our
:51:55. > :51:55.politics. People Before Profit always knew
:51:56. > :51:58.the reduction in seats would likely mean Eamonn McCann
:51:59. > :52:00.was going to lose his Gerry Carroll retained his
:52:01. > :52:03.seat in west Belfast - he defended that party's stance
:52:04. > :52:12.on Brexit, which became a part We were close to the youth from a
:52:13. > :52:16.left-wing standpoint. Look at what they have done to the people in the
:52:17. > :52:25.South of Ireland, they demanded that they pay water charges, demanded
:52:26. > :52:29.that they have job losses. People were ignored in graceful stop the U
:52:30. > :52:32.reticence austerity and the establishment, and People Before
:52:33. > :52:37.Profit are opposed to it for those reasons. There was a lot of
:52:38. > :52:39.scaremongering and this representation of our organisation,
:52:40. > :52:44.particularly in west Belfast by the established parties. But people
:52:45. > :52:48.voted for Sinn Fein, there was an increase across the North because
:52:49. > :52:51.people thought that by voting for Sinn Fein, that is the best way to
:52:52. > :52:56.stand up against corruption as they see it, stand up against the DUP.
:52:57. > :53:03.But it will be critical happens in the next few weeks. There was going
:53:04. > :53:05.to be a call for heads to roll within RHI as well.
:53:06. > :53:07.Gerry Carroll, looking forward to the next few weeks.
:53:08. > :53:10.Well, it's been described as a watershed election by Gerry Adams.
:53:11. > :53:13.Let's see what my guests of the day make of it all.
:53:14. > :53:14.I'm joined by Patricia McBride, Professor Pete Shirlow,
:53:15. > :53:17.Nicholas Whyte and our Political editor Mark Devenport.
:53:18. > :53:22.You are all welcome to the programme. Thank you for being here.
:53:23. > :53:27.I want to tease out your thoughts in terms of what you heard with regard
:53:28. > :53:33.to the five main parties earlier in the programme. Did you see any signs
:53:34. > :53:39.of John O'Dowd, Simon Hamilton, there are presented of Sinn Fein and
:53:40. > :53:44.the DUP trying to find a way to make things happen in a positive way in
:53:45. > :53:47.the next three weeks? I think the tone has been fairly positive in
:53:48. > :53:52.terms of the sort of mood music from both of them saying they want to
:53:53. > :53:56.come to this, in terms of trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together
:53:57. > :54:02.again. He said there was a recipe for devolution here, and Simon
:54:03. > :54:05.Hamilton was saying that the DUP wants to make things work. What we
:54:06. > :54:09.did not get down to was any obvious sign of compromise on this clear
:54:10. > :54:15.problem or Sinn Fein stipulating that they would not be supporting
:54:16. > :54:18.Arlene Foster as First Minister. Under the current system, they don't
:54:19. > :54:25.have to vote for her as First Minister, but my understanding that
:54:26. > :54:31.Sinn Fein will not nominate their Debuchy First Minister if Arlene
:54:32. > :54:36.Foster is First Minister. We know there is the RHI scandal which Sinn
:54:37. > :54:41.Fein wants to conclude, but that is due to go on for at least six
:54:42. > :54:45.months, maybe longer. I saw Gerry Adams talking again about the fact
:54:46. > :54:56.they had originally look for a preliminary report, but Sinn Fein
:54:57. > :55:01.phone's Minister said that it was not an option. It is hard to square
:55:02. > :55:04.that circle at the moment. We will watch that. Let's talk about Arlene
:55:05. > :55:09.Foster and her leadership and how damaged she may or may not be by the
:55:10. > :55:16.result. Simon Hamilton had a stout defence of her performance, saying
:55:17. > :55:21.that her demise was exaggerated. On the radio last night, if she thought
:55:22. > :55:25.that someone just add aside to let someone else be nominated, the party
:55:26. > :55:29.would back her decision. Does that mean that those conversations are
:55:30. > :55:35.happening, always very danger in the circumstances that people begin to
:55:36. > :55:38.exaggerate? Conversations will happen for real when people get up
:55:39. > :55:42.to Stormont and when I can have their proper internal conversations.
:55:43. > :55:45.I'm sure the phone has been buzzing. There are some within the DUP who
:55:46. > :55:51.feel sore about this, we have seen ten of their team out of a job, and
:55:52. > :56:00.this could have been avoided if she had stood aside, Mike Peter Robinson
:56:01. > :56:03.in the winter period. There is some difficulty getting their heads
:56:04. > :56:10.around this. At the moment, I don't see anyone watching a coup against,
:56:11. > :56:15.but there will be a discussion around the option of a caretaker
:56:16. > :56:20.First Minister. Someone like Simon Hamilton? He will be an obvious
:56:21. > :56:25.person. He was associated with the renewable heat initiative in
:56:26. > :56:28.relation to being an economy job and in relation to pushing through
:56:29. > :56:33.things like the cost controls, but he was not associated with it in the
:56:34. > :56:40.earlier days. He might be seen as someone who will be a compromise
:56:41. > :56:42.candidate. At the same time, Arlene Foster has very much said, I have
:56:43. > :56:47.done nothing wrong, she stood against this, and she might feel
:56:48. > :56:53.that this will be an intolerable loss of face if she gave way to what
:56:54. > :56:57.has been a Sinn Fein demand. OK. Do you think Arlene Foster has been
:56:58. > :57:05.damaged by this result? Similar to when Peter Robinson stood down,
:57:06. > :57:13.there is a fundamental problem for her that this is why they came out.
:57:14. > :57:20.The type of leadership she offered, she emboldened nationalism to some
:57:21. > :57:23.extent, leading us to where we are today. That vote was always there,
:57:24. > :57:29.it just needed something to trigger it. That is a new situation we're
:57:30. > :57:35.in. The problem will always be 50 plus one. This has brought them
:57:36. > :57:40.close to that. Very much she has to consider what Unionist leadership
:57:41. > :57:49.will be because there are two separate things. I think that Sinn
:57:50. > :57:56.Fein will... They will call for a border poll. There will be support
:57:57. > :57:59.for unification. She has been increasingly careful here, because
:58:00. > :58:03.if she does anything like she did before the election which emboldens
:58:04. > :58:10.nationalism, that border poll will be incredibly problematic. This
:58:11. > :58:14.election has shown is that Unionism has to realise the society in which
:58:15. > :58:19.we now live. If you look at the census and you look at people over
:58:20. > :58:26.the age of 18, the question over the last four or five years has been,
:58:27. > :58:35.why is it so flat? It wasn't annoyed, it did not feel as if it
:58:36. > :58:43.was being treated as second-class citizenry. They do feel that now. It
:58:44. > :58:48.was not about the bigger issue, the question has changed and will be a
:58:49. > :58:53.big shift in that over the next couple of years. One of the
:58:54. > :58:57.interesting things is that the strategy for this election when you
:58:58. > :59:01.are saying, Sinn Fein can't be the biggest party, you must back the
:59:02. > :59:08.DUP. A hard strategy might work in that situation. The border poll will
:59:09. > :59:17.not be immediate, but the strategy has to be different. You have two
:59:18. > :59:31.reassure people who might be slightly nationalists, which are
:59:32. > :59:41.diametrically opposed to the strategy we have just seen played
:59:42. > :59:47.out. There is a drive that people are talking about their for a border
:59:48. > :59:51.poll. I would not describe nationalism has emboldened as Alvin
:59:52. > :59:56.iced. There have been a series of events over the past number of
:59:57. > :00:01.years, the RHI is, Nam, red sky, a number of scandals which the DUP
:00:02. > :00:05.have had falling at their feet. There have been issues around
:00:06. > :00:13.equality, Irish language, petitions of concern, it is about nationalism
:00:14. > :00:19.and Republicans of all shades, saying, this is not how we will
:00:20. > :00:25.accept how the governorate is run. John O'Dowd made clear, Harold
:00:26. > :00:26.desired outcome is the restoration of a dissolved Assembly and
:00:27. > :00:36.Executive at Stormont. That is the back mechanism for
:00:37. > :00:40.ensuring the quality issues that we are driving forward delivered. The
:00:41. > :00:47.idea of a border poll is premature. You see Sinn Fein saying in the next
:00:48. > :00:50.of time and this is about developing reassurance of the structure works,
:00:51. > :00:54.people are saved, equality is something that goes across the
:00:55. > :00:59.entire community, it is not simply a Republican issue. But it is seismic
:01:00. > :01:04.that we are going into a new Assembly. Almost 100 years since
:01:05. > :01:08.partition, where there's not a Unionist majority. In political
:01:09. > :01:14.terms. That is frightening. That is challenged Sinn Fein, to not turn
:01:15. > :01:22.fear in the anger and to try and harness a positive attitude. The
:01:23. > :01:25.SDLP likewise should not see the number of seats sustained, should
:01:26. > :01:29.not see that as an endorsement of their strategy of going into
:01:30. > :01:32.opposition. They should be clearly reading the signals from the
:01:33. > :01:36.electorate that they were frustrated at the lack of progress in terms of
:01:37. > :01:42.equality, in terms of addressing issues around scandals. Nicholas,
:01:43. > :01:45.there are lots of things we can extrapolate from the figures, but
:01:46. > :01:50.something I wanted to tease out slightly. We've heard a lot of chat
:01:51. > :01:55.over the last 48 hours about a mixed message and, different messages
:01:56. > :01:59.coming out. How should we read it? Mark has talked about differential
:02:00. > :02:05.turnout. What is it, and how does it play into what has happened in terms
:02:06. > :02:12.of voting holding firmly but not producing the outcome, Sinn Fein
:02:13. > :02:17.vote up, galvanise? The SDLP seemingly doing well in the middle
:02:18. > :02:20.ground, Alliance doing well, Ulster Unionist doing badly. Several things
:02:21. > :02:30.are happening, turnover is up everywhere. In east Belfast, most in
:02:31. > :02:35.some of the border constituencies. And by 18% across-the-board. By ten
:02:36. > :02:43.points, which is an 18% increase. That in itself is remarkable. We had
:02:44. > :02:48.decreasing turnouts, now it is clear there new voters were not Unionist
:02:49. > :02:52.voters. Sinn Fein got a lot of those new boat, the Alliance party got a
:02:53. > :03:01.lot. The Unionists on a whole did not -- vote. Now, the SDLP
:03:02. > :03:06.performance slightly flattered to deceive in terms of the numbers of
:03:07. > :03:11.seats they won. It was historically the lowest vote share ever achieved
:03:12. > :03:18.at a Northern Ireland election. They pulled in a few big names. They did,
:03:19. > :03:23.they pulled them in with all seniors transfers. Which is the fascinating
:03:24. > :03:28.thing. Mike Nesbitt said the ball rolling. He said in his
:03:29. > :03:33.constituency, he would beat given his second preference of the SLP,
:03:34. > :03:38.others felt it was in such a good idea. Pat Catley won seat, was that
:03:39. > :03:43.because a transfer? That was precisely because the Ulster
:03:44. > :03:47.Unionists transfers, when they came, went to him as well as a DUP. He
:03:48. > :03:58.also picked up the Sinn Fein as well. And the SLP returned the
:03:59. > :04:02.favour, Rosemary Barton survived. We're looking at those figures
:04:03. > :04:05.played through as far as those transfers are concerned. It is an
:04:06. > :04:11.interesting picture. Maybe nobody was more surprised than Pat Catley.
:04:12. > :04:19.He tried before and failed. The other side of that is a DUP voters
:04:20. > :04:22.in south Belfast seemingly did not transfer to Michael Henderson, he
:04:23. > :04:29.lost the fifth seat to the Green Party. That right, we can no longer
:04:30. > :04:37.treat the blocks as monolithic, there's more tactful picture out.
:04:38. > :04:44.That is valuable, but those. We are looking at the figures come through.
:04:45. > :04:47.Transfers. When the history of this election is written, the word
:04:48. > :04:52.transfer will be in the first sentence, won't it? Yes, because in
:04:53. > :04:57.relation to Mike Nesbitt's comment, it could be argued that it may have
:04:58. > :05:01.ended up costing him the leadership, it does not just because of the
:05:02. > :05:05.whole technical issue of transfers, bid because he hadn't cleared it
:05:06. > :05:10.with his party beforehand and you had him saying something, his
:05:11. > :05:15.candidate saying others. Some people may have fought, here we go again.
:05:16. > :05:20.It may be some voters who are thinking of giving him the number
:05:21. > :05:23.one, hopped across to Alliance, who returned with the same number of
:05:24. > :05:29.seats, which was a strengthening of their position. What about the new
:05:30. > :05:36.leader of the Unionist party, Robert Swan is not ruling himself out. We
:05:37. > :05:41.are still waiting what Mrs Swan has to saved. Steve Aiken says he is
:05:42. > :05:49.thinking about things, Doug Beattie ruled himself out and hesitated, so
:05:50. > :05:56.I wasn't sure if he was, if he was potentially ruin himself back in.
:05:57. > :06:04.Who is there, who do you think the front you have talked about most of
:06:05. > :06:17.them, Robin Swann must be up them, taken them on a more traditional
:06:18. > :06:21.line. This will be a battle, and one fascinating thing they face, Robin
:06:22. > :06:26.Swann said that Tom Elliott is the chief negotiator, but they have to
:06:27. > :06:29.make a decision about whether they take a seat in government. In the
:06:30. > :06:32.talks that will come up between now and April when they pick a new
:06:33. > :06:40.leader. You wonder who will make that call? Lu it will have to be a
:06:41. > :06:43.collective decision, I would have thought. They will honestly be
:06:44. > :06:48.looking at these results and wondering whether their decision to
:06:49. > :06:52.hop into opposition cost them. I think you have to take a step back
:06:53. > :06:58.and think about Mike Nesbitt. He said he stood for a crossed unity
:06:59. > :07:05.nonsectarian boat. He has left the stage. What we have seen in this
:07:06. > :07:10.election -- vote. Those smaller parties are there because they got
:07:11. > :07:14.the fifth seat. We have somebody who tried to change the dynamic of
:07:15. > :07:18.politics. And has left the political stage. What we have this morning
:07:19. > :07:21.with by political parties was rolling and fighting. The two main
:07:22. > :07:28.parties stood on a platform of keeping each other out. One platform
:07:29. > :07:32.per Sinn Fein was we are mistreated, and that but a lot of fire under
:07:33. > :07:38.their campaign. The DUP was, if you vote this way, if you vote for the
:07:39. > :07:46.SDLP you get Gerry Adams. That was that. We have somebody who tried to
:07:47. > :07:51.change it. Which reflects... He was part of a packed with a DUP two
:07:52. > :07:56.years ago. There is a voice, somebody who is still up and said
:07:57. > :08:02.let's reflect, we engage with each other, Protestants and Catholics,
:08:03. > :08:06.Unionists and non-newness, people work in different ways. We socialise
:08:07. > :08:10.in different ways. There is a mismatch between the politics we
:08:11. > :08:13.have, which is driven by the spire and anger and this constitutional
:08:14. > :08:18.issue, which does not reflect part of the society in which we live. One
:08:19. > :08:21.voice for that has now left the stage. I think that is really
:08:22. > :08:26.regrettable. The middle ground has not achieved much. I disagree, I
:08:27. > :08:31.think it is disrespectful to the electorate to say we want people to
:08:32. > :08:35.come and be engaged, but we don't want you to vote that way, we want
:08:36. > :08:39.you to vote in the middle ground and how we tell you. People voted
:08:40. > :08:45.because they were angry, angry either for all the reasons we've
:08:46. > :08:51.talked about. I think the electorate have shown that the opposition has
:08:52. > :08:54.failed. You can't say we only had three Munsey operated, you should
:08:55. > :09:03.never have gone into it if you didn't have a plan, he didn't have
:09:04. > :09:08.an alternative -- three months. You worked with Mike. On a personal
:09:09. > :09:13.level, are you sorry to see him go? I think he is a loss, because he
:09:14. > :09:16.encouraged debate that perhaps that party had never had. And from that
:09:17. > :09:20.point of view, it gave them an opportunity to look at how they were
:09:21. > :09:22.doing, how they were doing business. I fundamentally believe he would
:09:23. > :09:27.have taken them back if he had remained. They didn't lose because
:09:28. > :09:35.they were in opposition, these parties were damaged at the 1998.
:09:36. > :09:44.They lost half of their boats, each lost half of their boats ten, 12
:09:45. > :09:46.years ago. -- votes. What has damaged the is the dysfunctional
:09:47. > :09:51.relationship between the two main parties in the Assembly, and that
:09:52. > :09:58.dysfunctional Blishen ship work for them in terms of maximising their
:09:59. > :10:06.boats. This is what we have observed -- relationship. What has damaged
:10:07. > :10:11.the Ulster Unionists and the SLP in the first place was a failure to
:10:12. > :10:15.deliver. Which is possibly based on their ablation ship. Interesting
:10:16. > :10:29.stepping back, if the Ulster Unionist don't go to executive and
:10:30. > :10:39.the S Gill P do, -- SDLP, you could be looking at a nationalist
:10:40. > :10:43.majority. Which is intriguing? I would suspect the STL P and alter
:10:44. > :10:49.Unionists one man mark each other, they will either jumping or jump our
:10:50. > :10:55.-- SDLP. We often talk about Sinn Fein's red line. Colonies to word
:10:56. > :11:00.was on record saying he wouldn't join and Arlene Foster led
:11:01. > :11:13.government. But remains a problem. If they both jump out, we get back
:11:14. > :11:21.into that problem. It is four DUP, three Sinn Fein. Alliance could
:11:22. > :11:26.theoretically be offered it. We are in very interesting circumstances.
:11:27. > :11:31.The Unionist lead was 1100 votes. The next leaders will have to answer
:11:32. > :11:34.the question, would you accept the position of Deputy First Minister?
:11:35. > :11:36.That is a fascinating question to leave the programme on. Thank you
:11:37. > :11:38.very much. So that was the Assembly Election
:11:39. > :11:41.2017 - a snap election that saw crocodiles to the fore,
:11:42. > :11:43.and which chewed up and spat I'll be back with lots more
:11:44. > :11:47.on The View on Thursday Until then, we'll leave
:11:48. > :11:51.you with some of the stand-out moments of a memorable
:11:52. > :11:59.couple of days. Something is happening out there, we
:12:00. > :12:08.don't know what it is yet, but we're here to find out. No one could have
:12:09. > :12:09.predicted this ten months ago. Some politicians are going to be very
:12:10. > :12:44.disappointed. It proves a total relevance of
:12:45. > :12:47.social media for a start. You must be feeling better you've got that
:12:48. > :13:03.off your chest. I've been waiting all day.
:13:04. > :13:16.There's also a huge vote of thanks to Martin. Too tired to laugh and to
:13:17. > :13:21.all to cry. So I shall not continue in this position. People are
:13:22. > :13:27.comparing this to blockbusters, how dare they? I resented, my mother
:13:28. > :13:34.resented, my family resented, stop doing it. Can I have a DUP, please,
:13:35. > :13:42.Bob? Is that a crocodile or an alligator? Are you trying to kill
:13:43. > :13:44.me? We have a huge responsibility to ensure we and run from Dublin, from
:13:45. > :13:51.London. CHEERING