08/05/2016

1:00:42 > 1:00:50This programme contains scenes of Repetitive Flashing Images.

1:01:14 > 1:01:17Hello, and welcome to a specially extended Sunday Politics.

1:01:17 > 1:01:20Stormont's benches have now all been filled.

1:01:20 > 1:01:23The 100 MLAs have been returned.

1:01:23 > 1:01:24It's been a great result for the DUP

1:01:24 > 1:01:27and its leader Arlene Foster in particular.

1:01:27 > 1:01:31Sinn Fein dropped a seat, but remains the second biggest party.

1:01:31 > 1:01:33There are some new faces, some very familiar faces,

1:01:33 > 1:01:36and there have been a few shocks and surprises as well.

1:01:36 > 1:01:38Over the next hour and a quarter,

1:01:38 > 1:01:40I'll be asking the main parties where it went right,

1:01:40 > 1:01:42or in some cases wrong,

1:01:42 > 1:01:45and what it will mean for the next five years.

1:01:45 > 1:01:47What departments will they choose in this smaller Executive

1:01:47 > 1:01:50or will they prefer to peel away and form an opposition?

1:01:50 > 1:01:53I'll be talking to some of the surprises of this election -

1:01:53 > 1:01:56People Before Profit's veteran campaigner, Eamonn McCann,

1:01:56 > 1:01:58and the leader of the Greens, Steven Agnew,

1:01:58 > 1:02:02who has doubled his party's representation at Stormont.

1:02:02 > 1:02:04And with their thoughts on all of that and more,

1:02:04 > 1:02:06Fionnuala O Connor, Alex Kane,

1:02:06 > 1:02:08and our political editor, Mark Devenport.

1:02:14 > 1:02:18Well, going into the election, there were 276 candidates.

1:02:18 > 1:02:20Over the course of two days of counting,

1:02:20 > 1:02:24that was whittled down to the 100 successful MLAs.

1:02:24 > 1:02:26The last result came just after 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon,

1:02:26 > 1:02:31and in a three-way fight for the fifth and sixth seats,

1:02:31 > 1:02:33Sinn Fein's Catherine Seeley and John O'Dowd

1:02:33 > 1:02:37pipped the SDLP's Dolores Kelly at the post in Upper Bann.

1:02:37 > 1:02:39So how will the new Assembly look?

1:02:39 > 1:02:40Well, in many ways,

1:02:40 > 1:02:42it won't be very different from 2011.

1:02:42 > 1:02:44The DUP remains the biggest party

1:02:44 > 1:02:45on 38 seats,

1:02:45 > 1:02:47and Arlene Foster will remain

1:02:47 > 1:02:48as First Minister.

1:02:48 > 1:02:49Sinn Fein dropped one seat

1:02:49 > 1:02:52but remains the second largest party on 28,

1:02:52 > 1:02:53and will take

1:02:53 > 1:02:55the Deputy First Minister's role.

1:02:55 > 1:02:57The Ulster Unionists are on the 16

1:02:57 > 1:02:59they achieved in 2011,

1:02:59 > 1:03:02while the SDLP is down 2 seats at 12.

1:03:02 > 1:03:03Alliance held on

1:03:03 > 1:03:06to its eight from five years ago.

1:03:06 > 1:03:08The Greens saw their numbers double

1:03:08 > 1:03:09from one to two,

1:03:09 > 1:03:10while People Before Profit

1:03:10 > 1:03:12makes its debut at Stormont,

1:03:12 > 1:03:13also with two.

1:03:13 > 1:03:14Jim Allister is back,

1:03:14 > 1:03:16but remains a solo operator for the TUV.

1:03:16 > 1:03:18The independent Claire Sugden

1:03:18 > 1:03:20also makes a return.

1:03:21 > 1:03:24Let's hear from some of the parties who will be bringing new faces

1:03:24 > 1:03:27to the green benches at Stormont.

1:03:27 > 1:03:30Firstly, not exactly a new face, you might say,

1:03:30 > 1:03:34the veteran campaigner Eamonn McCann of People Before Profit

1:03:34 > 1:03:35is in our Foyle studio.

1:03:35 > 1:03:37The Green Party leader Steven Agnew,

1:03:37 > 1:03:40who now has the party's deputy leader Clare Bailey

1:03:40 > 1:03:42joining him on the hill.

1:03:42 > 1:03:44Welcome to both of you.

1:03:44 > 1:03:47Let me just talk to you, first of all, Steven Agnew.

1:03:47 > 1:03:49We'd hope we might get a chance to talk to Clare Bailey,

1:03:49 > 1:03:51but I think she's done so much talking

1:03:51 > 1:03:53over the last couple of days she's got a bit of a bad throat

1:03:53 > 1:03:56this morning, so I hope she makes a speedy recovery, because presumably

1:03:56 > 1:04:00she'll be wanting to make her voice heard in the Assembly Chamber.

1:04:00 > 1:04:03But two is good. Three, of course, would have been better.

1:04:03 > 1:04:06You did say to me on this programme a couple of weeks ago

1:04:06 > 1:04:08you would be disappointed if you didn't come back with three.

1:04:08 > 1:04:11So there's a bit of happiness and a bit of disappointment.

1:04:11 > 1:04:14Well, we're absolutely delighted for Clare Bailey.

1:04:14 > 1:04:17It's been a tremendous result for the Greens across the board

1:04:17 > 1:04:21with the largest increase in vote of any party in this election.

1:04:21 > 1:04:23So, overall, the Greens are celebrating.

1:04:23 > 1:04:25But, of course, I am disappointed for Ross Brown.

1:04:25 > 1:04:29He came seventh in a six-seat constituency. He came very close.

1:04:29 > 1:04:31We were right to say that we could get three seats,

1:04:31 > 1:04:33because we almost did,

1:04:33 > 1:04:36but that's something for us to build on in the future.

1:04:36 > 1:04:41But, overall, we've doubled our number of MLAs,

1:04:41 > 1:04:43we've increased our vote across Northern Ireland

1:04:43 > 1:04:45and, indeed, it was the highest vote we've ever had

1:04:45 > 1:04:48across Northern Ireland in terms of vote number.

1:04:48 > 1:04:50So, overall, a successful election.

1:04:50 > 1:04:52You, you, of course,

1:04:52 > 1:04:54came second in terms of first-preference

1:04:54 > 1:04:57votes in your constituency of North Down,

1:04:57 > 1:04:59which was a personal success from your point of view,

1:04:59 > 1:05:02- cos I think you came home with the sixth seat last time.- That's right.

1:05:02 > 1:05:05Clare Bailey in South Belfast, why do you think in a constituency...?

1:05:05 > 1:05:09It was quite a diverse constituency, yes, but it is leafy South Belfast,

1:05:09 > 1:05:12it's very often how people describe it in shorthand.

1:05:12 > 1:05:13How do you think a Green candidate there,

1:05:13 > 1:05:17who is clearly left of centre, managed to secure a seat?

1:05:17 > 1:05:20Well, while others prevaricated on issues such as equal marriage

1:05:20 > 1:05:23and abortion, the Greens, and Clare Bailey in particular,

1:05:23 > 1:05:25articulated a very clear vision.

1:05:25 > 1:05:27We're pro equal marriage, we're pro abortion reform,

1:05:27 > 1:05:30ad that message went down well in South Belfast.

1:05:30 > 1:05:32Plus, Clare is a tremendous campaigner.

1:05:32 > 1:05:34She's been working in the constituency for many years.

1:05:34 > 1:05:38She's had two near-misses in previous elections,

1:05:38 > 1:05:41but she's been persistent and kept coming back to the electorate,

1:05:41 > 1:05:45kept working hard, and has got the result she deserved.

1:05:45 > 1:05:47She didn't have to fight for the final seat.

1:05:47 > 1:05:50She took the fourth seat, and I think that's worth noting,

1:05:50 > 1:05:53that she came home quite comfortably in the end.

1:05:53 > 1:05:55OK, Eamonn McCann, first of all, congratulations to you.

1:05:55 > 1:05:57We spoke a couple of days ago and you were confident,

1:05:57 > 1:05:59but you hadn't been confirmed.

1:05:59 > 1:06:01You've been at this game since 1969 -

1:06:01 > 1:06:03I think that was the first time you stood for election.

1:06:03 > 1:06:08So, at last, at the age of 73, you're inside the Stormont tent,

1:06:08 > 1:06:12which for so many years you've of course been an arch critic of.

1:06:12 > 1:06:15Well, I've been an arch critic of the policies

1:06:15 > 1:06:17coming out of Stormont and the policies coming out

1:06:17 > 1:06:20of an awful lot of other parliamentary institutions

1:06:20 > 1:06:23across the water and in an even more wide scale.

1:06:27 > 1:06:29I mean, I've argued for that attitude,

1:06:29 > 1:06:31and eventually we got a quota.

1:06:31 > 1:06:35To be honest, this is just a statement of the obvious, isn't it?

1:06:35 > 1:06:40What's going to be your motivation up at Stormont?

1:06:40 > 1:06:43What are you hoping you're going to be able to achieve?

1:06:43 > 1:06:46You're there and you've got Gerry Carroll for West Belfast,

1:06:46 > 1:06:47so there are two of you.

1:06:47 > 1:06:50You're not a lone voice, but do you think that you will be able

1:06:50 > 1:06:53to have an impact on policy issues?

1:06:53 > 1:06:55Do you hope that you'll seriously be able to hold

1:06:55 > 1:06:57the Executive to account?

1:06:57 > 1:07:01Well, we'll certainly be able to hold the Executive to account,

1:07:01 > 1:07:06to the extent that Stormont rules and procedures allow that to happen.

1:07:06 > 1:07:11We will bring into Stormont the ideas and the attitudes

1:07:11 > 1:07:13of the policies that we have been proclaiming,

1:07:13 > 1:07:18that I've been proclaiming for, certainly, a very long time.

1:07:18 > 1:07:21I think the most important thing that we bring

1:07:21 > 1:07:26and, in our estimation, the most important thing about the election -

1:07:26 > 1:07:28People Before Profit candidates -

1:07:28 > 1:07:31is that we stood on a clear basis of being neither orange nor green.

1:07:31 > 1:07:33We did something the people kept telling us

1:07:33 > 1:07:34it was not possible to do -

1:07:34 > 1:07:38that in Northern Ireland you either have to be deep green or deep orange

1:07:38 > 1:07:40or some muddy mulch in the middle.

1:07:40 > 1:07:42We offered a radical political alternative

1:07:42 > 1:07:44to the politics of orange versus green.

1:07:44 > 1:07:49I think there was, to use a crude term, a market for that attitude.

1:07:49 > 1:07:51I think many people were...

1:07:51 > 1:07:54And we pulled votes from a much wider range of people than

1:07:54 > 1:07:57we ever have before in Derry.

1:07:57 > 1:08:01Our vote was certainly the youngest vote that there was

1:08:01 > 1:08:03in this constituency, loads of first time voters.

1:08:03 > 1:08:07Our election team was the youngest, I would think,

1:08:07 > 1:08:10that certainly I've ever been associated with.

1:08:10 > 1:08:14So we will bring that sort of youthful energy and a, sort of,

1:08:14 > 1:08:18radical anti-Sectarian, "neither orange nor green" attitude

1:08:18 > 1:08:20to Stormont. I think that's very important.

1:08:20 > 1:08:22Very important to us, anyway.

1:08:22 > 1:08:24Eamonn, whenever you were deemed elected,

1:08:24 > 1:08:26you just couldn't help yourself.

1:08:26 > 1:08:29You revealed one of the talents that you've kept hidden for many years -

1:08:29 > 1:08:31your singing voice.

1:08:31 > 1:08:33Now, you took a bit of stick when you sang The Internationale

1:08:33 > 1:08:37from some of our commentators on our programme yesterday.

1:08:37 > 1:08:39Could you just not help yourself?

1:08:39 > 1:08:41I'm not aware that I took a bit of stick from anybody.

1:08:41 > 1:08:43I take your word for it.

1:08:43 > 1:08:46I don't think I watched any coverage of anything yesterday.

1:08:46 > 1:08:48It wasn't that I just couldn't help myself.

1:08:48 > 1:08:51Look, people singing songs on platforms in Northern Ireland,

1:08:51 > 1:08:55particularly after winning a seat of some sort in Parliament,

1:08:55 > 1:08:56it's not unusual.

1:08:56 > 1:09:01I've heard A Nation Once Again sung.

1:09:01 > 1:09:06Thinking our God in ages past, or whatever it is in song,

1:09:06 > 1:09:08so it's not unusual.

1:09:08 > 1:09:10It's probably unusual to hear a song which doesn't

1:09:10 > 1:09:13come from either the Nationalist or Unionist tradition

1:09:13 > 1:09:15sung on an election platform,

1:09:15 > 1:09:18or a results platform in Northern Ireland.

1:09:18 > 1:09:19Maybe it was just about time.

1:09:19 > 1:09:22Right. Well, I'm glad you didn't see some of the comments that there were

1:09:22 > 1:09:25yesterday afternoon, because they weren't all entirely complimentary,

1:09:25 > 1:09:29I have to be honest, but I think everybody took it in the spirit in which you obviously intended.

1:09:29 > 1:09:31Go back and watch it on iPlayer

1:09:31 > 1:09:34and you can decide who's not on your Christmas card list in future.

1:09:34 > 1:09:37- Eamonn...- I don't send Christmas cards incidentally,

1:09:37 > 1:09:40- so I don't have a list. Go on. - Right. OK. Tell me this,

1:09:40 > 1:09:43how do you think you're going to work with people like Steven Agnew

1:09:43 > 1:09:46in what's now being referred to not as the naughty corner,

1:09:46 > 1:09:48but as the noisy corner?

1:09:48 > 1:09:52Well, for a start, I don't deal in phrases like naughty corner

1:09:52 > 1:09:55and noisy corner. That is to infantilise politics

1:09:55 > 1:09:58in Northern Ireland and commentators who use that phrase simply have

1:09:58 > 1:10:01nothing better to say.

1:10:01 > 1:10:04Certainly I would envisage that we can work well

1:10:04 > 1:10:06with Steven and the Greens.

1:10:06 > 1:10:09Again, they approached the election saying -

1:10:09 > 1:10:11though they couldn't use our phrase, I suppose -

1:10:11 > 1:10:12"Neither Orange nor Green,"

1:10:12 > 1:10:15but on the same basis as far as that's concerned.

1:10:15 > 1:10:17We have also incorporated,

1:10:17 > 1:10:21contributing here in the Foyle area on environmental campaigns

1:10:21 > 1:10:25and are doing that at the moment in relation to a whole

1:10:25 > 1:10:30series of possible potential environmental catastrophes here,

1:10:30 > 1:10:33so we disagree on other things, of course,

1:10:33 > 1:10:36but I think that there could be a working relationship there.

1:10:36 > 1:10:37I hope there will be.

1:10:37 > 1:10:41I know Steven a little and I've never had any rows with him,

1:10:41 > 1:10:45so I think the people who are...

1:10:45 > 1:10:49The main reason why I think that the attitude of neither Orange

1:10:49 > 1:10:52nor Green can be brought into the Assembly

1:10:52 > 1:10:58and can have a real effect is that there's a hunger for it.

1:10:58 > 1:11:02I've knocked on doors and said my opening little mantra,

1:11:02 > 1:11:06"I'm from People Before Profit. We are neither Orange nor Green,

1:11:06 > 1:11:11"will you vote for us?" The reaction to that was absolutely striking.

1:11:11 > 1:11:14People in all areas... I sort of stood back a little bit.

1:11:14 > 1:11:17This is a typical reaction.

1:11:17 > 1:11:20I stood back a little bit and they said, "Tell me more,"

1:11:20 > 1:11:24or words to the effect of, "At last," or, "Are you serious?" Or, "Can you do it?"

1:11:24 > 1:11:28Or "Have you any hope of getting elected on this basis?"

1:11:28 > 1:11:32Very few people said to us, "Well, actually, we're Nationalists,

1:11:32 > 1:11:34"we're Unionists, we can't support you."

1:11:34 > 1:11:37I think that this is an idea whose time has come.

1:11:37 > 1:11:41The main reason why there are not bigger political formations

1:11:41 > 1:11:44based on the type of approach that I'm outlining here is simply

1:11:44 > 1:11:48that people have thought, until now, that it just won't work,

1:11:48 > 1:11:50that you can't get elected on that basis,

1:11:50 > 1:11:52that it's just futile rhetoric to talk like that.

1:11:52 > 1:11:55Well, it's not futile rhetoric and hope people in other

1:11:55 > 1:11:59constituencies learn the message. You're sitting there wondering

1:11:59 > 1:12:02and complaining, or phoning into Mr Nolan or somebody, and say,

1:12:02 > 1:12:05"Isn't it terrible that we only have these Nationalists

1:12:05 > 1:12:07"and Unionists fighting with one another

1:12:07 > 1:12:09"in permanent deadlock seemingly."

1:12:09 > 1:12:11OK, you don't have to accept that.

1:12:11 > 1:12:14I mean, go out and support candidates who are there

1:12:14 > 1:12:16and choose between which non-sectarian anti-Orange,

1:12:16 > 1:12:18Green candidates are available to you.

1:12:18 > 1:12:20OK, I want to bring Steven in a second,

1:12:20 > 1:12:23but very quickly, you just touched on a point about working

1:12:23 > 1:12:26relationships with the Greens and so forth. You may have to

1:12:26 > 1:12:29develop at short notice a working relationship with Jim Allister

1:12:29 > 1:12:32who's another oppositional voice from the TUV.

1:12:32 > 1:12:35Do you think you can build some kind of relationship with him, because

1:12:35 > 1:12:38there wouldn't be too many common areas on the policy front, I'd have

1:12:38 > 1:12:40thought, between People Before Profit

1:12:40 > 1:12:42and traditional Unionist voice?

1:12:42 > 1:12:44Well, you've just said it yourself.

1:12:44 > 1:12:49I mean, there are very few areas of an overlap of policy

1:12:49 > 1:12:51and that surely is the key thing.

1:12:51 > 1:12:55Certified numbers and procedures at Stormont or anywhere else

1:12:55 > 1:12:59don't affect political principles. I think there would be a wide range

1:12:59 > 1:13:02- of issues...- But are you looking forward to working with

1:13:02 > 1:13:04Jim Allister? Are you looking forward to having a cup of tea with

1:13:04 > 1:13:06him, a conversation next week at Stormont?

1:13:06 > 1:13:09I'll be happy to have a cup of tea with almost anybody.

1:13:09 > 1:13:12I hope there'd be no personal animosities or anything like that.

1:13:12 > 1:13:15I would like to think that I have relatively genial

1:13:15 > 1:13:19relationships with people of very different political views.

1:13:19 > 1:13:21I've not had a conversation with Mr Allister in my life,

1:13:21 > 1:13:24- but I'd talk to anybody.- OK.

1:13:24 > 1:13:27Steven, you have had to develop some kind of relationship

1:13:27 > 1:13:30with Jim Allister and again, there wouldn't be terribly many

1:13:30 > 1:13:32common areas in terms of policy.

1:13:32 > 1:13:35What kind of relationship are you hoping you're going to build with

1:13:35 > 1:13:38Eamonn McCann and Gerry Carroll?

1:13:38 > 1:13:41I recall an interview with Eamonn on Heart and Minds

1:13:41 > 1:13:44when he was asked why, in a European election,

1:13:44 > 1:13:47the Greens and, as they were then, the Socialist Environmental Alliance

1:13:47 > 1:13:49why we weren't standing together

1:13:49 > 1:13:53and he said traditionally the Greens and Reds have marched together,

1:13:53 > 1:13:56and we have been in trade union rallies with Eamonn

1:13:56 > 1:13:59and I've fought many causes along with Eamonn. As he's pointed out

1:13:59 > 1:14:03we've worked closely on some of the environmental issues

1:14:03 > 1:14:06in the north west, not least the largest illegal waste dump at Mobuoy,

1:14:06 > 1:14:09but the reality are we are separate parties.

1:14:09 > 1:14:12We will work together where we share policy and when we disagree,

1:14:12 > 1:14:15I will argue with Eamonn as much as anyone else,

1:14:15 > 1:14:18because I believe in the policies of the Green Party.

1:14:18 > 1:14:21Do you think that that corner, that oppositional corner now in Stormont -

1:14:21 > 1:14:24and I don't know if the seating arrangements are going to stay

1:14:24 > 1:14:27the same or not, but whatever about it, there are going to be six people

1:14:27 > 1:14:29somewhere who are not in the five main parties -

1:14:29 > 1:14:34do you think that the make up as it will be from tomorrow has

1:14:34 > 1:14:38a serious opportunity, a serious possibility to make a difference

1:14:38 > 1:14:43and to actually hold the Executive, whatever it looks like, to account?

1:14:43 > 1:14:47I was one Green MLA in the last Assembly and I feel I did make an effective difference.

1:14:47 > 1:14:49I called Sinn Fein out

1:14:49 > 1:14:52when they said no-one would be worse off on their welfare reform.

1:14:52 > 1:14:55I proposed the first-ever motion on marriage equality

1:14:55 > 1:14:57and led the way in that issue

1:14:57 > 1:14:59when other parties didn't want to talk about it

1:14:59 > 1:15:02and, of course, I brought forward my own children's bill

1:15:02 > 1:15:04and I've changed the law around children's services,

1:15:04 > 1:15:08something that the children's sector campaigned for since 2007.

1:15:08 > 1:15:11So that's what we were able to do with one Green MLA.

1:15:11 > 1:15:14We've now got two green MLAs and I'm confident that

1:15:14 > 1:15:20we can be even more effective in the Assembly and show a distinctive

1:15:20 > 1:15:25- voice, an alternative voice to the five traditional parties.- OK.

1:15:25 > 1:15:27Well, we look forward to hearing what you have to say over

1:15:27 > 1:15:30the next five years. Eamonn McCann in Derry, thanks very much indeed.

1:15:30 > 1:15:32Steven Agnew, thank you very much as well.

1:15:32 > 1:15:36Let's hear then from my commentators Fionnuala, Alex and Mark.

1:15:36 > 1:15:38Welcome to all of you.

1:15:38 > 1:15:43Fionnuala, first of all, looking at the wider picture, do you think that

1:15:43 > 1:15:48Sinn Fein in particular has been spooked by the threat from the left?

1:15:48 > 1:15:52I feel I should say first in the spirit that Eamonn just

1:15:52 > 1:15:55introduced that here I am answering the Green question and

1:15:55 > 1:15:57Alex, in a moment, will be answering the Orange question,

1:15:57 > 1:16:00but we mustn't upset the running order.

1:16:00 > 1:16:05They were, of course, spooked and they've been spooked in advance.

1:16:05 > 1:16:08They were managing expectations downward from quite some time ago

1:16:08 > 1:16:13and as someone else on air, it was heard on the doorsteps,

1:16:13 > 1:16:16"Will you give us your number two preference in West Belfast?"

1:16:16 > 1:16:20Because they knew Gerry Carroll was going to get the first one.

1:16:20 > 1:16:24The first top in the poll, as other people have pointed out, is

1:16:24 > 1:16:30a bit of an illusory victory in one sense.

1:16:30 > 1:16:32Sinn Fein, of course, were going to manage their vote

1:16:32 > 1:16:35and weren't going to throw it all against keeping him

1:16:35 > 1:16:40off the top of the poll, but that was a psychological blow

1:16:40 > 1:16:42and really it does voice the dissatisfaction

1:16:42 > 1:16:45there has been for considerable time in West Belfast.

1:16:45 > 1:16:49Where I differ with Eamonn and wonder what will become of them,

1:16:49 > 1:16:52I wonder first of all how he will stick it in Stormont and how

1:16:52 > 1:16:55boredom will not crush him.

1:16:55 > 1:16:59But as Steven pointed out, he was able to achieve a considerable amount.

1:16:59 > 1:17:02What I think People Before Profit will do in both West Belfast

1:17:02 > 1:17:07and to a lesser extent in Foyle, where Eamonn's voice is more

1:17:07 > 1:17:11familiar, is they will do what Bernie Sanders, to an extent,

1:17:11 > 1:17:14has done to Hillary Clinton during this campaign.

1:17:14 > 1:17:16They will try to keep them honest,

1:17:16 > 1:17:19so what Sinn Fein will do now in the negotiations

1:17:19 > 1:17:21before, in the next couple of weeks,

1:17:21 > 1:17:24is I suspect they will re-write their already written plan for government.

1:17:24 > 1:17:28OK. Don't fret there will be plenty of opportunities for you to answer

1:17:28 > 1:17:31lots of different questions later in the programme,

1:17:31 > 1:17:34so don't worry about that now. No, no, have no fear.

1:17:34 > 1:17:38Alex, the Greens had hoped, and Steven's already talked about this point, that they had

1:17:38 > 1:17:43hoped to get three home in this election and Ross Brown wasn't successful in East Belfast,

1:17:43 > 1:17:48but do you think there is an opportunity for the Green Party to grow in future elections...

1:17:48 > 1:17:52- from this base?- I think there is, partly because they surprised us.

1:17:52 > 1:17:54Steven was telling me that, no, they'd be

1:17:54 > 1:17:56lucky to get the one, they've proved

1:17:56 > 1:18:00and if you look at what happened to South Belfast and also East Belfast,

1:18:00 > 1:18:03they're picking up votes from soft unionism as well.

1:18:03 > 1:18:05People who you would've thought would have gone to the

1:18:05 > 1:18:09Ulster Unionists party, maybe an uncomfortable alliance,

1:18:09 > 1:18:11significant numbers of them, in the sense that they made

1:18:11 > 1:18:15a difference in pushing candidates over the line, went to the Greens.

1:18:15 > 1:18:17That again tells you something. It's part of this ongoing process

1:18:17 > 1:18:22of how long it's going to take Northern Ireland to ever get to what we could call normal politics,

1:18:22 > 1:18:26but as I've said for some time, there's something happening in the undergrowth. People

1:18:26 > 1:18:29are looking and they're thinking, "That's not quite the option for me. I'll give this a go,"

1:18:29 > 1:18:32and I think the very fact that you've got two seats, you put your

1:18:32 > 1:18:36vote up, next time round people go, "Actually, they did OK last time."

1:18:36 > 1:18:37What about relationships?

1:18:37 > 1:18:41You heard a little bit there from Eamonn and from Steven about how

1:18:41 > 1:18:45different parties, some of the smaller parties might relate to each other.

1:18:45 > 1:18:49How do you think Eamonn McCann will get on with Jim Allister, realistically?

1:18:49 > 1:18:51You know both of them pretty well?

1:18:51 > 1:18:54Eamonn McCann gets on, as he was saying there in the interview,

1:18:54 > 1:18:57very well with people across a broad range.

1:18:57 > 1:19:01He's a great talker and raconteur and I think that Jim Allister will

1:19:01 > 1:19:07at least share with Eamonn McCann a love of plain speaking and rhetoric.

1:19:07 > 1:19:11They might have a shared interest in terms of the Stormont

1:19:11 > 1:19:14tradecraft, how you work the machine in terms of which

1:19:14 > 1:19:17committees you get on in order to have your voice heard, so at

1:19:17 > 1:19:19that level... That said,

1:19:19 > 1:19:23at the level of principle they couldn't be further apart.

1:19:23 > 1:19:26Jim Allister's first act has been to point out that with

1:19:26 > 1:19:28the loss of John McCallister

1:19:28 > 1:19:31and Basil McCrea that the balance of power has shifted at Stormont

1:19:31 > 1:19:35and in relation to the flag over the building, he's saying

1:19:35 > 1:19:38Unionists now have the votes to push this through,

1:19:38 > 1:19:41so that's a very different kind of first act from anything which

1:19:41 > 1:19:47either Steven Agnew or Eamonn McCann or Gerry Carroll would go for.

1:19:47 > 1:19:49So there will be a divergence,

1:19:49 > 1:19:51but I wouldn't have thought that they'd have

1:19:51 > 1:19:54a particularly difficult relationship because, as I say,

1:19:54 > 1:19:58Eamonn has the ability to get on with a lot of people

1:19:58 > 1:20:02and I think Jim Allister will at least appreciate the fact

1:20:02 > 1:20:04that Eamonn can stand up without a note

1:20:04 > 1:20:09and I hope that this will be true of many more MLAs in this chamber

1:20:09 > 1:20:11and just speak their mind and keep it on point and on message.

1:20:11 > 1:20:14Alex, do you want a quick word just before we move on?

1:20:14 > 1:20:16The interesting thing, Jim has added... For the past

1:20:16 > 1:20:18four, five years, Jim has had it all to himself

1:20:18 > 1:20:22in terms in oratorical skill. The man that everyone listens to

1:20:22 > 1:20:24because he always says something interesting.

1:20:24 > 1:20:26Being challenged now by Eamonn McCann,

1:20:26 > 1:20:29having someone there who is as good on his feet, I think

1:20:29 > 1:20:31the dynamics between those two in terms of who the media will

1:20:31 > 1:20:34hone in on, who they will get the most coverage from...

1:20:34 > 1:20:36And it might make Jim up his game,

1:20:36 > 1:20:38stop constantly complaining about the DUP

1:20:38 > 1:20:41and actually begin to think, "OK, Eamonn's offering something

1:20:41 > 1:20:43"slightly different here. I'm back by myself.

1:20:43 > 1:20:46"I can't do the same thing for another five years, just whinge.

1:20:46 > 1:20:48"I need to do something different."

1:20:48 > 1:20:51Just on the dynamic, Steven mentioned it, what

1:20:51 > 1:20:54he thought had benefited Clare Bailey and was part of her appeal in

1:20:54 > 1:20:56South Belfast and part of the Greens' appeal

1:20:56 > 1:21:00and will be part of People Before Profit's contribution, there is

1:21:00 > 1:21:02the question of abortion rights, there is

1:21:02 > 1:21:08the continuing agony of many women and girls taking pills off the net.

1:21:08 > 1:21:10That is not going to go away.

1:21:10 > 1:21:13Clare Bailey partly, I think, her vote, nobody would doubt was

1:21:13 > 1:21:17due to her honesty and decency on that subject and People

1:21:17 > 1:21:22For Profit will be sticking to that, will be pushing that line to

1:21:22 > 1:21:25a degree as well, so there will be support for Steven who has

1:21:25 > 1:21:29fought the lone fight and that will continue to develop a new

1:21:29 > 1:21:31social dynamic inside the Assembly as well.

1:21:31 > 1:21:35And that's something we may develop a little later bit later

1:21:35 > 1:21:38and obviously other people take a very different perspective on things.

1:21:38 > 1:21:40The other issue on which these four will be interesting to watch

1:21:40 > 1:21:43will be corporation tax, because all the big parties are signed up

1:21:43 > 1:21:46to that, but we're now getting to implementation, which means

1:21:46 > 1:21:50cutting a budget in order to allow it to happen and I suspect

1:21:50 > 1:21:53that the Greens and People Before Profit will be honing in on that.

1:21:53 > 1:21:57We'll develop all of those issues a little bit later in the programme.

1:21:57 > 1:21:58For now, thanks very much indeed.

1:21:58 > 1:22:01In a moment I'll be talking to representatives from the main

1:22:01 > 1:22:05parties, but first our political correspondent Stephen Walker

1:22:05 > 1:22:08examines what key questions the election results present

1:22:08 > 1:22:11and be warned there is some flash photography in his report.

1:22:28 > 1:22:31So the election is over and the counting centres

1:22:31 > 1:22:33and the television sets are being dismantled.

1:22:33 > 1:22:37We now have the results but we also have a series of questions.

1:22:37 > 1:22:42Why is it that the DUP and Sinn Fein are the two largest parties?

1:22:42 > 1:22:43Why is it that the SDLP

1:22:43 > 1:22:46and the Ulster Unionists failed to make an impact?

1:22:46 > 1:22:49And now we know the Stormont arithmetic,

1:22:49 > 1:22:52is it time for an official opposition?

1:22:56 > 1:22:59The DUP are delighted with their results

1:22:59 > 1:23:02and their strategy of effectively making this

1:23:02 > 1:23:07a referendum on who should be First Minister clearly paid off.

1:23:07 > 1:23:12The DUP is now perhaps being seen as the party of government at Stormont.

1:23:12 > 1:23:16Perhaps that's what the average rank and file Unionist is beginning to think.

1:23:16 > 1:23:18In other words, the Ulster Unionist Party might continue to do well,

1:23:18 > 1:23:22might even become... The protest votes might become Westminster,

1:23:22 > 1:23:25which used to be the big election. It might become council elections,

1:23:25 > 1:23:26it might become Euro elections.

1:23:26 > 1:23:29But the DUP seems perhaps to be

1:23:29 > 1:23:32being seen as the party of government in Northern Ireland.

1:23:32 > 1:23:35Sinn Fein are the second-largest party but their vote fell and

1:23:35 > 1:23:39they lost key figures like Rosie Mccauley in West Belfast,

1:23:39 > 1:23:43Maeve McLaughlin in Foyle and Phil Flanagan in Fermanagh South Tyrone.

1:23:43 > 1:23:47Questions are now being raised about their tactics.

1:23:47 > 1:23:49Rosie Mccauley I know had been tipped, you know,

1:23:49 > 1:23:52as a rising star within the party. Maeve McLaughlin, Health Committee,

1:23:52 > 1:23:55quite a high profile politician, so that won't play out

1:23:55 > 1:23:57well and I think that's quite a disappointment for them,

1:23:57 > 1:23:59and what we have seen for a party that is

1:23:59 > 1:24:03known for its discipline, known for its strict photo management

1:24:03 > 1:24:06is that in a few constituencies, there have been a few upsets,

1:24:06 > 1:24:10so Fermanagh South Tyrone's mess of a selection process has come

1:24:10 > 1:24:11back to bite them.

1:24:11 > 1:24:14They've lost a seat there to the SDLP, that won't play out well.

1:24:14 > 1:24:19For the SDLP it's been a painful few days. Dolores Kelly lost

1:24:19 > 1:24:23her seat, as did deputy leader Ferghal McKinney.

1:24:23 > 1:24:25I think it has been a very poor election result.

1:24:25 > 1:24:28They're losing parts of their heartlands,

1:24:28 > 1:24:31so, for example, South Belfast, which was always strong for them,

1:24:31 > 1:24:34losing their deputy leader there, also Foyle, again which was

1:24:34 > 1:24:38the city of the SDLP, it was the John Hume territory.

1:24:38 > 1:24:42To lose their third seat there is incredibly difficult

1:24:42 > 1:24:45and also the problem for many SDLP candidates is

1:24:45 > 1:24:46they're coming in on those final seats,

1:24:46 > 1:24:48but of course at the next Assembly election,

1:24:48 > 1:24:51there will be less seats to go around, so that does cause

1:24:51 > 1:24:57some problems and does put the future of the party into question.

1:24:57 > 1:25:02Going down to roughly 11 seats is pretty much alliance of the SDLP.

1:25:02 > 1:25:05For the UUP it's been a difficult time.

1:25:05 > 1:25:08Their candidate Jenny Palmer took a seat from the DUP in Lagan Valley,

1:25:08 > 1:25:10but that was a rare victory.

1:25:13 > 1:25:16Mike Nesbitt wrote himself a letter before the election

1:25:16 > 1:25:21predicting the outcome and its contents were revealed on the BBC.

1:25:21 > 1:25:24I'm going to formally open this now, OK?

1:25:24 > 1:25:26And you posted this and then

1:25:26 > 1:25:29you put this in your desk, did you? Right.

1:25:30 > 1:25:33The Ulster Unionists must now examine why

1:25:33 > 1:25:36they failed to win more seats?

1:25:36 > 1:25:39I think that we all had wrongly predicted that there would be

1:25:39 > 1:25:42a resurgence of votes for the Ulster Unionists and there isn't

1:25:42 > 1:25:45and I think there's a very simple reason for that.

1:25:45 > 1:25:48Mike Nesbitt's message was quite mixed, it was quite muddled.

1:25:48 > 1:25:51In some ways he tried to appeal to the middle ground, in some ways

1:25:51 > 1:25:53he tried to play to the hard line. I don't think that quite worked,

1:25:53 > 1:25:56whereas the DUP had a very direct message.

1:25:56 > 1:25:58It was keep Arlene as First Minister,

1:25:58 > 1:26:00it was vote for the union.

1:26:00 > 1:26:01The Alliance Party

1:26:01 > 1:26:05retained their number of Stormont seats, but their vote fell.

1:26:05 > 1:26:07I think they'll be very disappointed,

1:26:07 > 1:26:10although they'll be delighted to hold on to those eight seats,

1:26:10 > 1:26:14but to a certain extent, it was more by luck than anything else.

1:26:14 > 1:26:17They're not as healthy as they were in 2011.

1:26:17 > 1:26:20It was a good election for some of the smaller parties with

1:26:20 > 1:26:23the Greens and People Before Profit making gains.

1:26:23 > 1:26:28New faces like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll and Clare Bailey will add

1:26:28 > 1:26:33a new dimension to the Assembly's much-publicised naughty corner.

1:26:33 > 1:26:35There's a lot of talk about how Eamonn McCann will slot in.

1:26:35 > 1:26:37He's not an establishment figure, let's face it.

1:26:37 > 1:26:39He's not one for rules and regulations,

1:26:39 > 1:26:42so I think that will make for interesting viewing.

1:26:42 > 1:26:45We already had Jim Allister as a one-man opposition.

1:26:45 > 1:26:48Now we have his political polar opposite in Eamonn McCann,

1:26:48 > 1:26:50but also someone who's likely to make a few waves.

1:26:50 > 1:26:54So now that all the results are in, what happens next?

1:26:54 > 1:26:57Some observers say the Ulster Unionists

1:26:57 > 1:27:01and the SDLP must consider opposition.

1:27:01 > 1:27:05There's very little to be gained in a smaller executive for the UUP

1:27:05 > 1:27:09and the SDLP to go into it, because at the same time, you're going

1:27:09 > 1:27:14to have a bolstered DUP and you're going to have a Sinn Fein that's going to be hunkering down,

1:27:14 > 1:27:17so there's going to be very little in it for the DUP and Sinn Fein to

1:27:17 > 1:27:21really kick any decent breadcrumbs towards the SDLP or the UUP.

1:27:21 > 1:27:24When the official function is there now for opposition, it would

1:27:24 > 1:27:26be madness if they didn't take it up.

1:27:26 > 1:27:29In the days ahead, talks about a programme for government will

1:27:29 > 1:27:33dominate the political agenda. The electorate have made their decision.

1:27:33 > 1:27:39Now the class of 2016 have some key decisions of their own to make.

1:27:40 > 1:27:44Stephen Walker rounding up the weekend's events for us there.

1:27:44 > 1:27:47All of the five main parties saw their share of the vote drop.

1:27:47 > 1:27:49We'll hear from them in just a moment.

1:27:49 > 1:27:51Let's take a look at that share though.

1:27:51 > 1:27:54The DUP is out in front with just over 29%.

1:27:54 > 1:27:58Sinn Fein is on 24%. The Ulster Unionists on 12.6.

1:27:58 > 1:28:03The SDLP just behind on 12 and Alliance on 7%.

1:28:03 > 1:28:05Let's compare that to 2011.

1:28:05 > 1:28:10We can see they've all dropped, in fact, some more than others.

1:28:10 > 1:28:13With me now to discuss that and other issues

1:28:13 > 1:28:16are the Ulster Unionist Party's Christopher Stalford,

1:28:16 > 1:28:18Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd,

1:28:18 > 1:28:20Naomi Long from the Alliance Party,

1:28:20 > 1:28:22the Ulster Unionist Robin Swann

1:28:22 > 1:28:24and Nichola Mallon from the SDLP.

1:28:24 > 1:28:26So, welcome to all of you,

1:28:26 > 1:28:28we've got plenty of time to talk about what happened

1:28:28 > 1:28:29over the campaign -

1:28:29 > 1:28:32what went right, what went wrong and to look to the future

1:28:32 > 1:28:35and how that might shape up.

1:28:35 > 1:28:36Christopher Stalford first of all.

1:28:36 > 1:28:40The DUP campaign seems to have chimed with a lot of voters,

1:28:40 > 1:28:42does that mean, from where you're sitting,

1:28:42 > 1:28:45the DUP now speaks for Unionism?

1:28:45 > 1:28:47Yes, we do.

1:28:47 > 1:28:49I'm delighted with the result party has had.

1:28:49 > 1:28:51To have polled over 200,000 votes

1:28:51 > 1:28:55is the first time we've been over 200,000 votes

1:28:55 > 1:28:58across Northern Ireland since 2007.

1:28:58 > 1:29:01I think there are a couple of people who must be thanked for the result,

1:29:01 > 1:29:03particularly our director of elections, Nigel Dodds.

1:29:03 > 1:29:05He ran an absolutely tight ship,

1:29:05 > 1:29:08and I'm delighted with the result the party has achieved

1:29:08 > 1:29:10in this election, it's a mandate to endorse the vision

1:29:10 > 1:29:12that was outlined by our leader, Arlene Foster...

1:29:12 > 1:29:16- It was all about Arlene.- Well, Arlene was the leader of our party

1:29:16 > 1:29:19and was very much front and centre of our campaign,

1:29:19 > 1:29:20and I think the result we have got

1:29:20 > 1:29:23reflects the huge support there is in the country

1:29:23 > 1:29:26for her continuing to be the First Minister of Northern Ireland.

1:29:26 > 1:29:29So that's the positive side. But as we said in the introduction,

1:29:29 > 1:29:32it is worth noting that all the main parties' votes are down.

1:29:32 > 1:29:36The DUP by almost 1%. Second Assembly drop in a row for the DUP.

1:29:36 > 1:29:40What does that say about voter disengagement?

1:29:40 > 1:29:43We went into this election with 38 seats.

1:29:43 > 1:29:47All of the commentators - all - said we would drop seats.

1:29:47 > 1:29:51- They said you might. - Well, we came back with 38 seats.

1:29:51 > 1:29:54After ten years in government as the lead party in government,

1:29:54 > 1:29:58to come back with the same number of seats that we got five years ago

1:29:58 > 1:30:00is a tremendous achievement.

1:30:00 > 1:30:03To be over 200,000 votes for the first time since 2007

1:30:03 > 1:30:06is also a great achievement.

1:30:06 > 1:30:09Let's not be begrudging. We had a good election.

1:30:09 > 1:30:11It was a good result and it is a mandate

1:30:11 > 1:30:15for Arlene to take forward the vision that she outlined

1:30:15 > 1:30:16for the next five years.

1:30:16 > 1:30:20OK. John O'Dowd, Would you say it was a good seat for Sinn Fein?

1:30:20 > 1:30:23You're down a seat, you're down 2.9%.

1:30:23 > 1:30:26Well, we are a party in government, as Christopher said,

1:30:26 > 1:30:29most of the parties round the table have been active in government

1:30:29 > 1:30:31for ten years and in leadership positions for ten years.

1:30:31 > 1:30:34I suspect, if you look across Western Europe,

1:30:34 > 1:30:37many parties in government for that length of time

1:30:37 > 1:30:40during one of the worst recessions to hit the global economy,

1:30:40 > 1:30:42would be delighted to be able to return the vast majority

1:30:42 > 1:30:46of their MLAs and hold on, largely, to the percentage of their vote.

1:30:46 > 1:30:49Quite frankly, I'm more interested in what happens next.

1:30:49 > 1:30:50The election is over.

1:30:50 > 1:30:53It's a very important event in any democratic society,

1:30:53 > 1:30:57but what we now need to do is knuckle down and get the programme

1:30:57 > 1:31:00for government sorted out and start delivering services for society.

1:31:00 > 1:31:04Start making the positive changes that are required in our society

1:31:04 > 1:31:06and tackle the huge challenges

1:31:06 > 1:31:09that are in front of us in the months and years ahead.

1:31:09 > 1:31:13But there are lessons that you have to learn.

1:31:13 > 1:31:17Gerry Kelly was sitting where you are sitting now, yesterday,

1:31:17 > 1:31:19and he said we will have an inquiry

1:31:19 > 1:31:21into what went wrong in our campaign,

1:31:21 > 1:31:22and ask some serious questions.

1:31:22 > 1:31:26Because it didn't all go according to plan - in Foyle, Fermanagh

1:31:26 > 1:31:27and South Tyrone, West Belfast,

1:31:27 > 1:31:30Upper Bann, you know, you and Cat Seeley squeezed home

1:31:30 > 1:31:32and squeezed Dolores Kelly out at the end,

1:31:32 > 1:31:37but it looked at one stage like you could not deliver what you hoped.

1:31:37 > 1:31:39- Well...- You could have lost out.

1:31:39 > 1:31:40Well, let's start in reverse order.

1:31:40 > 1:31:43PR elections are not about topping the poll.

1:31:43 > 1:31:45PR elections are about winning seats,

1:31:45 > 1:31:47that's what we achieved in Upper Bann.

1:31:47 > 1:31:50You use the term, inquiry, review, whatever you wish to use.

1:31:50 > 1:31:52Every political party around this table

1:31:52 > 1:31:55will review their results and how they fought this election.

1:31:55 > 1:31:58I do believe we have to look at what we achieved in Upper Bann

1:31:58 > 1:32:00and how we can replicate that in other areas.

1:32:00 > 1:32:04It's not about romping home in the first count,

1:32:04 > 1:32:07it's not about topping the poll, it's about winning seats.

1:32:07 > 1:32:09Yeah. But you didn't win a third seat in Foyle

1:32:09 > 1:32:11and you brought your party leader home from Mid Ulster

1:32:11 > 1:32:13to take a third seat.

1:32:13 > 1:32:16He took a seat. Maeve McLaughlin doesn't have a job tomorrow.

1:32:16 > 1:32:20Well...it is a huge loss for the party losing Maeve McLaughlin.

1:32:20 > 1:32:23- Phil Flanagan doesn't have a job. - As an MLA...

1:32:23 > 1:32:26Maeve McLaughlin will continue to be a Sinn Fein activist,

1:32:26 > 1:32:28campaigner and worker.

1:32:28 > 1:32:32- And the same for other candidates who lost out?- Yes.

1:32:32 > 1:32:34- Rosie McCorley... Yes.- All...

1:32:34 > 1:32:38- All...- I'm sure they'd rather be an MLA?- Of course they would.

1:32:38 > 1:32:42The same as if John O'Dowd had lost his seat yesterday,

1:32:42 > 1:32:45we as Sinn Fein activists put ourselves forward

1:32:45 > 1:32:46to represent the party

1:32:46 > 1:32:49and we take the chances and risks of electoral politics.

1:32:49 > 1:32:52Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

1:32:52 > 1:32:54But what we will still continue to do

1:32:54 > 1:32:56is put forward a radical alternative

1:32:56 > 1:32:58in terms of our policies and politics.

1:32:58 > 1:33:01We will stand by our manifesto commitments.

1:33:01 > 1:33:04We fought on the basis that we were going into government.

1:33:04 > 1:33:06Others fought on the basis that we might be opposition,

1:33:06 > 1:33:09we might go into government, we're not sure what we're going to go.

1:33:09 > 1:33:11We are going into government.

1:33:11 > 1:33:14Right. Robin Swann, Mike Nesbitt sat here yesterday

1:33:14 > 1:33:18and put his hands up and said that this election campaign

1:33:18 > 1:33:21from an Ulster Unionist perspective was not a success.

1:33:21 > 1:33:22Your share is down -

1:33:22 > 1:33:25but critically you did not grow the number of seats.

1:33:25 > 1:33:29You had 16 in 2011, you have 16 in 2016.

1:33:29 > 1:33:32Well, we had 13 in the last Assembly, we've now 16.

1:33:32 > 1:33:34We took back the seats that we lost through defections.

1:33:34 > 1:33:37And we had a couple of close misses.

1:33:37 > 1:33:40Even he did not try to make that point yesterday,

1:33:40 > 1:33:45he conceded the fact that you got 16 in 2011, you got 16 in 2016.

1:33:45 > 1:33:47I'm not going to argue, but we had a couple of close misses.

1:33:47 > 1:33:50We made mistakes. We will learn from them.

1:33:50 > 1:33:53- What were those mistakes?- There was a number of vote management issues

1:33:53 > 1:33:55we'll look at seriously.

1:33:55 > 1:33:58You think it's vote management rather than...

1:33:58 > 1:33:59explaining to the electorate

1:33:59 > 1:34:01precisely what the Ulster Unionist Party stands for?

1:34:01 > 1:34:04We heard from a lot of people yesterday

1:34:04 > 1:34:06that it was a lack of a simple, straightforward,

1:34:06 > 1:34:11clear message that cost the Ulster Unionist Party that growth

1:34:11 > 1:34:14and was the reason for the success of the DUP.

1:34:14 > 1:34:16We were fighting Project Fear, Arlene or Martin.

1:34:16 > 1:34:20That's the message we were continually fighting on the doors.

1:34:20 > 1:34:23It was a hard message to fight against.

1:34:23 > 1:34:25No matter what detail in policy we put forward,

1:34:25 > 1:34:29- it was all about Arlene.- It was very successful.- Can I respond?

1:34:29 > 1:34:32Listen, we'll come back to you about it in a moment or two.

1:34:32 > 1:34:35I know you'll not accept it but it is a bit of a lame excuse.

1:34:35 > 1:34:38The others were better than us and they confused people?

1:34:38 > 1:34:42It's your job as a politician to get a clear, simple message

1:34:42 > 1:34:45out there to inspire the electorate, and you failed to do that.

1:34:45 > 1:34:49They don't know what you represent, are you progressive or hardline?

1:34:49 > 1:34:50Hard to tell.

1:34:50 > 1:34:54We are a progressive party and we put forward progressive policies.

1:34:54 > 1:34:56Not progressive when you pulled out of the Executive on

1:34:56 > 1:34:59the issue of trusting Sinn Fein and the DUP stayed there.

1:34:59 > 1:35:00That was the risk we took

1:35:00 > 1:35:03and what we thought was right to do at that stage.

1:35:03 > 1:35:06- And on reflection, was it wrong?- No.

1:35:06 > 1:35:08It was the right thing to do at that stage.

1:35:08 > 1:35:10We'll enter the discussions for a programme for government

1:35:10 > 1:35:12and we'll see if those round the table

1:35:12 > 1:35:14are putting forward a progressive programme...

1:35:14 > 1:35:16So you are not clear at this moment

1:35:16 > 1:35:20whether you will be inside or outside the tent?

1:35:20 > 1:35:23We're going into negotiations, Mark. It's made clear by any

1:35:23 > 1:35:25opposition person you have questioned including Mike Nesbitt.

1:35:25 > 1:35:27We're not going to walk away from the programme

1:35:27 > 1:35:29for government discussions.

1:35:29 > 1:35:31We'll go in and see if we trust the people around the table

1:35:31 > 1:35:34and see if it is a progressive forward-thinking programme

1:35:34 > 1:35:36for government for Northern Ireland.

1:35:36 > 1:35:39- And we'll make a judgment if we can trust the others.- OK.

1:35:39 > 1:35:42Nichola Mallon, where is the SDLP in all of this?

1:35:42 > 1:35:46You can't argue that it was anything other than a disappointing election.

1:35:46 > 1:35:48You had a new leader, you promised a great deal

1:35:48 > 1:35:52and you go back two seats down on 2011.

1:35:52 > 1:35:55It is always painful to lose MLAs.

1:35:55 > 1:35:59I personally know Dolores and Gerard and Fearghal.

1:35:59 > 1:36:00I'm not going to spin things,

1:36:00 > 1:36:02we're very disappointed at losing those seats.

1:36:02 > 1:36:05But in saying that, we have increased our vote

1:36:05 > 1:36:07in a number of places.

1:36:07 > 1:36:1018 of our 24 candidates were brand-new.

1:36:10 > 1:36:12We have a new leader in post a couple of months

1:36:12 > 1:36:15and we are undergoing significant renewal and change.

1:36:15 > 1:36:16Rome wasn't built in a day.

1:36:16 > 1:36:18We'll take a hard look at our election results -

1:36:18 > 1:36:21but we have a new team and we are energised

1:36:21 > 1:36:23and looking forward to being up in the Assembly.

1:36:23 > 1:36:28Yeah. It's the worst SDLP result in terms of vote share ever

1:36:28 > 1:36:30and in terms of Assembly representation.

1:36:30 > 1:36:32As you said, all the main parties

1:36:32 > 1:36:34have experienced a decline in their vote.

1:36:34 > 1:36:37In North Belfast, in a lower turnout,

1:36:37 > 1:36:40I increased the percentage on the actual vote.

1:36:40 > 1:36:43We worked hard and we had losses in other areas

1:36:43 > 1:36:47but in South Antrim, Roisin Lynch put in a very good fight.

1:36:47 > 1:36:50She put the leader of the Alliance Party under pressure.

1:36:50 > 1:36:53Connor Duncan in North Antrim put in a good fight too.

1:36:53 > 1:36:55We need to build on that.

1:36:55 > 1:36:57Where was the Colum Eastwood bounce? You should've done better

1:36:57 > 1:37:00and had the wind in your backs with a new leader, should you not?

1:37:00 > 1:37:03Certainly in the doors of North Belfast,

1:37:03 > 1:37:07people were commenting on Colum Eastwood and recognising

1:37:07 > 1:37:09that we are undergoing change,

1:37:09 > 1:37:12that we see a significant change in the age of the people

1:37:12 > 1:37:15coming into leadership positions in the SDLP.

1:37:15 > 1:37:18So I know from speaking to people in North Belfast

1:37:18 > 1:37:21that Colum was a factor, and for me it was a positive factor.

1:37:21 > 1:37:25Yeah. Just look at where the SDLP has gone since 1998.

1:37:25 > 1:37:29Back then, the year of the Good Friday Agreement,

1:37:29 > 1:37:32178,000 votes. You topped the league table of all parties

1:37:32 > 1:37:36in terms of the popular vote, 178,000 votes in 1998.

1:37:36 > 1:37:422016, 83,000. You have lost nearly 100,000 votes in 18 years.

1:37:42 > 1:37:46Yes, and we have to change it, and we are determined to...

1:37:46 > 1:37:48You didn't start to change it in this election.

1:37:48 > 1:37:50In North Belfast,

1:37:50 > 1:37:52we started to change it and in other constituencies.

1:37:52 > 1:37:55But as I said, Rome wasn't built in a day,

1:37:55 > 1:37:57and as a party undergoing significant change,

1:37:57 > 1:37:59we'll need time to do that.

1:37:59 > 1:38:00We said that to the voters,

1:38:00 > 1:38:03and had honest conversations with voters on the doorstep.

1:38:03 > 1:38:05OK. Naomi Long, not a great election

1:38:05 > 1:38:08from the Alliance Party's perspective.

1:38:08 > 1:38:10You had 8 and you have 8.

1:38:10 > 1:38:13Yes, a different eight, which is important,

1:38:13 > 1:38:16because we've new people in and we have refreshed the team.

1:38:16 > 1:38:19It's always difficult,

1:38:19 > 1:38:21when you look at people like Kieran McCarthy, Anna Lo,

1:38:21 > 1:38:24who are real characters and big figures in their constituencies

1:38:24 > 1:38:26and they are hard to replace.

1:38:26 > 1:38:30So we've managed to do that and held our ground.

1:38:30 > 1:38:32We did not make some of the gains we would've liked,

1:38:32 > 1:38:35but we were runner-up in two constituencies

1:38:35 > 1:38:36and within a couple of hundred votes

1:38:36 > 1:38:39of gaining seats in others. So in many ways,

1:38:39 > 1:38:42the strategy worked, in that we put the effort into those constituencies

1:38:42 > 1:38:44where we thought gains were possible.

1:38:44 > 1:38:46But we didn't have the luck on those last seats.

1:38:46 > 1:38:49That happens. Some elections are lucky.

1:38:49 > 1:38:55We squeezed 6 seats out of 3.7% of the vote in 2003.

1:38:55 > 1:38:58I think we got all our luck we were ever going to get in that election.

1:38:58 > 1:39:00We didn't have any this time around.

1:39:00 > 1:39:02That's the way politics is.

1:39:02 > 1:39:05But we have got our 8, we have a strengthened team

1:39:05 > 1:39:09and I'm looking forward being there on Monday doing the job.

1:39:09 > 1:39:12You got 8 this time round, it was a squeeze,

1:39:12 > 1:39:15you got 8 more easily five years ago and there has been no growth.

1:39:15 > 1:39:19Back in 1998, you had six MLAs.

1:39:19 > 1:39:23In 2016, you have gone up two seats.

1:39:23 > 1:39:28- Yeah.- There is no big breakthrough, no groundswell of opinion.

1:39:28 > 1:39:31As Northern Ireland has moved on and politics has moved on,

1:39:31 > 1:39:33the Alliance Party has been stuck.

1:39:33 > 1:39:35No, I don't think you can say we've been stuck,

1:39:35 > 1:39:37we've improved in every election.

1:39:37 > 1:39:40I agree that this election has not been good in terms of vote share.

1:39:40 > 1:39:43You have to look at the micro stuff.

1:39:43 > 1:39:46John was talking about PR elections, we weren't out to get easy seats,

1:39:46 > 1:39:49we were out to put resources into those seats

1:39:49 > 1:39:51where we thought we could make gains.

1:39:51 > 1:39:54Those seats did not come through on this occasion,

1:39:54 > 1:39:58but the cost of investing that resource in those seats

1:39:58 > 1:40:01was, for example, a drop in our vote in Lagan Valley

1:40:01 > 1:40:04and a drop in our vote in David Ford's own constituency.

1:40:04 > 1:40:07Because David was a leader and led from the front.

1:40:07 > 1:40:09Instead of knocking doors

1:40:09 > 1:40:13in South Antrim where we knew we would hold our seat,

1:40:13 > 1:40:16he knocked on doors in North Belfast where we were runners-up.

1:40:16 > 1:40:21I think that is how you run an election campaign.

1:40:21 > 1:40:24Well, on the issue of leadership which you have raised,

1:40:24 > 1:40:27I will take the invitation to discuss it,

1:40:27 > 1:40:31when you look at the success of the DUP's campaign,

1:40:31 > 1:40:33putting a new leader, Arlene Foster, to the fore

1:40:33 > 1:40:35and look at the lack of success

1:40:35 > 1:40:38in your campaign, with you sitting in the wings,

1:40:38 > 1:40:40maybe - maybe, making it all about Naomi,

1:40:40 > 1:40:43we'd be having a very different conversation.

1:40:43 > 1:40:46Well, the Alliance Party is not a personality cult,

1:40:46 > 1:40:47so let's kill that dead.

1:40:47 > 1:40:49- That's not what it's about. - Maybe it should be?- No -

1:40:49 > 1:40:52it should be about progressive politics, policy.

1:40:52 > 1:40:57It's not about one individual. It's about the team that we put forward.

1:40:57 > 1:41:02David has done an amazing job as leader. There's no question.

1:41:02 > 1:41:06He is one of the most generous people

1:41:06 > 1:41:09I know in terms of the time he gives in other constituencies...

1:41:09 > 1:41:14Sure, you can say that as deputy leader, but it is what voters think.

1:41:14 > 1:41:16Voters maybe don't share that view?

1:41:16 > 1:41:17That may or may not be the case,

1:41:17 > 1:41:20but I don't this was a referendum on David Ford's leadership.

1:41:20 > 1:41:22It was about individual constituencies...

1:41:22 > 1:41:25But when you sit down, Naomi, as all the parties will do,

1:41:25 > 1:41:28John O'Dowd has already conceded Sinn Fein will do it,

1:41:28 > 1:41:30when you sit down as a party,

1:41:30 > 1:41:32quietly in a room without any fanfare,

1:41:32 > 1:41:35to look at the numbers and look at where the successes were

1:41:35 > 1:41:36and where the failures were -

1:41:36 > 1:41:39and there were more failures than successes -

1:41:39 > 1:41:42are the men in suits going to tap him on the shoulder

1:41:42 > 1:41:44and say maybe now the time has come, David?

1:41:44 > 1:41:48Nobody is tapping David Ford on the shoulder to ask him to go.

1:41:48 > 1:41:50I am sorry this has become such an obsession.

1:41:50 > 1:41:54There is a huge amount of admiration

1:41:54 > 1:41:57and respect for what David has achieved over his leadership.

1:41:57 > 1:42:01He has taken Alliance to places we never thought we would be.

1:42:01 > 1:42:05Let's be honest, we used to not be at the table in these debates,

1:42:05 > 1:42:07because we were ignored.

1:42:07 > 1:42:09We were relegated into the second division.

1:42:09 > 1:42:12David has brought us to the table and given us a voice.

1:42:12 > 1:42:14Anyone who has not seen what David has achieved

1:42:14 > 1:42:16is not looking at the whole picture.

1:42:16 > 1:42:19Do you think it is the cult of Arlene, celebrity politics?

1:42:19 > 1:42:22Naomi Long says we shouldn't get into that.

1:42:22 > 1:42:25- I think that was a sideswipe in your direction.- No, it wasn't.

1:42:25 > 1:42:28I'm just saying that's not what politics is about,

1:42:28 > 1:42:30it's about policy.

1:42:30 > 1:42:32It is not a popularity contest, and it shouldn't be.

1:42:32 > 1:42:34Do you think the DUP turned it into a popularity contest?

1:42:34 > 1:42:36I think the DUP had a successful election,

1:42:36 > 1:42:38so whether they did or didn't, it worked.

1:42:38 > 1:42:42I think that is insulting to the 202,000 people

1:42:42 > 1:42:45who voted for our party in this election

1:42:45 > 1:42:48and who endorsed the vision outlined by our leader -

1:42:48 > 1:42:52to suggest that those people are in some way foolish or sheep,

1:42:52 > 1:42:55who were herded into the voting booth is an insult to people.

1:42:55 > 1:42:58What do you think they voted for?

1:42:58 > 1:43:00- Did they vote for DUP policy? - You didn't...- I didn't.

1:43:00 > 1:43:02Robin Swann implied it.

1:43:02 > 1:43:04So what were people voting for?

1:43:04 > 1:43:07- For DUP policy or...- Yes.

1:43:07 > 1:43:12..the DUP's record or Arlene and Arlene's vision,

1:43:12 > 1:43:14or were they voting for the candidates

1:43:14 > 1:43:15like Christopher Stalford?

1:43:15 > 1:43:18What do you think motivated them?

1:43:18 > 1:43:20A combination of all of those things

1:43:20 > 1:43:22motivated people to vote for our party.

1:43:22 > 1:43:24Or the fear factor, as Robin Swann says?

1:43:24 > 1:43:29No, the fact of the matter is that in Scotland,

1:43:29 > 1:43:32the election campaign there,

1:43:32 > 1:43:34Labour wanted Kezia Dugdale to be the FM,

1:43:34 > 1:43:39and the SNP said they wanted Nicola Sturgeon.

1:43:39 > 1:43:40What sort of party would it be...

1:43:40 > 1:43:43I can understand why some parties would want to hide their leader,

1:43:43 > 1:43:45but what sort of party wants to hide their leader

1:43:45 > 1:43:48from being in the front line of an election campaign?

1:43:48 > 1:43:51Well, who hid their leader?

1:43:51 > 1:43:54Well, I think some leaders were more prominent than others.

1:43:54 > 1:43:57Who are you thinking of?

1:43:57 > 1:44:02I didn't see an awful lot of Mike or Colum Eastwood during the election.

1:44:02 > 1:44:06- Did you not?- Not really. - Where was Mike?- Mike was visible.

1:44:06 > 1:44:08He was around the constituencies.

1:44:08 > 1:44:11Coming back to the letter Arlene sent my wife,

1:44:11 > 1:44:14"a vote for anyone other than the DUP candidate

1:44:14 > 1:44:16"would divide and weaken the pro-Union vote

1:44:16 > 1:44:20"and allow Martin McGuinness to become First Minister."

1:44:20 > 1:44:22In North Antrim...

1:44:22 > 1:44:26The other election broadcast was sent through North Antrim.

1:44:26 > 1:44:28Showed the percentage votes of the different parties,

1:44:28 > 1:44:33- 30% DUP and 26.9% Sinn Fein. - Is that accurate?

1:44:33 > 1:44:36- In North Antrim... - What's your point?

1:44:36 > 1:44:39That was the communication sent to North Antrim.

1:44:39 > 1:44:43If the DUP were being open and honest about what they were doing,

1:44:43 > 1:44:45that was the Project Fear factor out there...

1:44:45 > 1:44:49- The subliminal message...- The percentages shown on that paper...

1:44:49 > 1:44:51- So that's the dog whistling? - Yes, it is.

1:44:51 > 1:44:54You are insulting not only your own constituents...

1:44:54 > 1:44:57who voted for the DUP in greater numbers

1:44:57 > 1:45:00than they voted for the Ulster Unionists in North Antrim

1:45:00 > 1:45:02but you are insulting the 200,000 people

1:45:02 > 1:45:05- who elected to support our party in this election...- Right.

1:45:05 > 1:45:08..because they believed in the vision of our party.

1:45:08 > 1:45:11So, John O'Dowd, was the reference to Project Fear

1:45:11 > 1:45:12an insult to Sinn Fein?

1:45:12 > 1:45:15No - well, I didn't take it as an insult.

1:45:15 > 1:45:17I don't like the style of politics.

1:45:17 > 1:45:21I don't think it's going to work for the DUP in the years ahead.

1:45:21 > 1:45:24Because there has been a shift and change in attitudes

1:45:24 > 1:45:28across the electorate, I think, and I am thankful that across Upper Bann

1:45:28 > 1:45:30I canvassed many areas,

1:45:30 > 1:45:34and there was a Unionist voice and a Unionist vote in those areas.

1:45:34 > 1:45:38I was pleasantly surprised by the reception I received on the doors.

1:45:38 > 1:45:41Often in the past, you would've been chased

1:45:41 > 1:45:43or people will have taken great exception

1:45:43 > 1:45:45to you going to their door in the past.

1:45:45 > 1:45:50Unionist electorate were willing to engage with me on the doorstep.

1:45:50 > 1:45:54They put their point of view across as Unionists, but it was being done

1:45:54 > 1:45:59in a way which was both amicable that we were able to share ideas

1:45:59 > 1:46:01with each other and we could challenge each other,

1:46:01 > 1:46:04and I don't think this fear of Sinn Fein

1:46:04 > 1:46:07the DUP are promoting will work for them in the future.

1:46:07 > 1:46:11People want to see the political parties working together.

1:46:11 > 1:46:12Nichola, you within the SDLP

1:46:12 > 1:46:15did endeavour to put your new leader forward, front and centre,

1:46:15 > 1:46:17but it didn't make any difference.

1:46:17 > 1:46:20As I said, round North Belfast, it made a difference.

1:46:20 > 1:46:21Colum came to doors with me

1:46:21 > 1:46:24and the doors I was at, people were passing comment

1:46:24 > 1:46:28on the fact he was a new leader and they were liking what he was saying.

1:46:28 > 1:46:31But across all 18 constituencies it didn't make the kind of difference

1:46:31 > 1:46:33that you hoped it would make as you were down 2.2%,

1:46:33 > 1:46:35you lost two seats in the Assembly.

1:46:35 > 1:46:38He's been in post five months or so.

1:46:38 > 1:46:40I believe we're starting to get a bounce,

1:46:40 > 1:46:42people will see in this next Assembly

1:46:42 > 1:46:44the calibre of Colum Eastwood as a leader.

1:46:44 > 1:46:45But, Mark, If I could just say,

1:46:45 > 1:46:48in relation to the discussion we've just had...

1:46:48 > 1:46:49for me it's very simple.

1:46:49 > 1:46:52The DUP tried to portray this phoney fight about who'd be top dog

1:46:52 > 1:46:55and the truth is that Arlene and Martin

1:46:55 > 1:46:57have to sign off on everything together.

1:46:57 > 1:47:00So that was a thing I personally found insulting.

1:47:00 > 1:47:03I don't know the people I spoke to personally found it insulting,

1:47:03 > 1:47:04because it was a phoney fight.

1:47:04 > 1:47:07Now, let me bring you in at this point.

1:47:07 > 1:47:10Let's plant the past behind us, let's plant the election

1:47:10 > 1:47:13and look to the future now because, I think to be fair to our viewers,

1:47:13 > 1:47:17they want to hear what happens next. And the results are pretty clear

1:47:17 > 1:47:19and we know who's going back to Stormont tomorrow.

1:47:19 > 1:47:21The question I have, first of all for Naomi,

1:47:21 > 1:47:23are you going to be part of the conversations

1:47:23 > 1:47:25on the programme for government?

1:47:25 > 1:47:29Because under the new executive, the bar you've got a clear,

1:47:29 > 1:47:32as I understand it, to have a position in the executive

1:47:32 > 1:47:34as of right, is 11. The Alliance party has eight.

1:47:34 > 1:47:38If you've got eight, it may well be that the other four parties

1:47:38 > 1:47:40get together in a room tomorrow to start the discussions

1:47:40 > 1:47:43about the programme for government and you're outside the room.

1:47:43 > 1:47:46It's the first opportunity we've had to seriously discuss this.

1:47:46 > 1:47:48- That is a possibility. - What is the state of play?

1:47:48 > 1:47:50That is a possibility.

1:47:50 > 1:47:53It depends whether other parties then decide that they want us

1:47:53 > 1:47:55to be engaged in this discussion.

1:47:55 > 1:47:57If some parties don't take their seats,

1:47:57 > 1:48:00it might well fall to Alliance at some point

1:48:00 > 1:48:02that we would have an entitlement.

1:48:02 > 1:48:05So if other parties don't want us to be part of those negotiations,

1:48:05 > 1:48:08that will be a decision they have to make.

1:48:08 > 1:48:10We'll find out whether people want us

1:48:10 > 1:48:13to be part of those negotiations, but no, we won't be there of right.

1:48:13 > 1:48:16Which is a disappointment because we'd want to be there,

1:48:16 > 1:48:19being able to influence what happens in the room.

1:48:19 > 1:48:21But it depends, as I say, whether other parties will want us

1:48:21 > 1:48:24to be there and be involved.

1:48:24 > 1:48:26Christopher, do you have any knowledge?

1:48:26 > 1:48:28Will the Alliance party be invited to those conversations or not?

1:48:28 > 1:48:30With all due respect, Mark,

1:48:30 > 1:48:3348 hours ago I was a councillor in Belfast City Council.

1:48:33 > 1:48:37I'm now one of the most junior backbench assembly members.

1:48:37 > 1:48:41- Your party has asked you to come on.- Of course.

1:48:41 > 1:48:44So I imagine you've had a conversation with the powers that be

1:48:44 > 1:48:45and you know what the line is.

1:48:45 > 1:48:48I'm sure that the view will be that as many parties as possible

1:48:48 > 1:48:50should be involved in the discussions

1:48:50 > 1:48:52around the programme of government,

1:48:52 > 1:48:54and I'm sure that'll be the case.

1:48:54 > 1:48:56So, you think that even though the Alliance party

1:48:56 > 1:48:57is not entitled to be there,

1:48:57 > 1:49:01the DUP would be magnanimous in the Alliance party's "defeat",

1:49:01 > 1:49:03and invite it along to the table?

1:49:03 > 1:49:05Let's not overstate it. It wasn't a defeat.

1:49:05 > 1:49:09You're getting carried away with yourself, Mark, if I may say so.

1:49:09 > 1:49:12Defeat to get 11 seats, Naomi, you know what I mean.

1:49:12 > 1:49:15- Hang on, you know what I mean. - We didn't cross the bar.- Exactly.

1:49:15 > 1:49:16It was not a defeat.

1:49:16 > 1:49:18You didn't clear the bar, so you're not there as right.

1:49:18 > 1:49:21You said that yourself. But you're going to be magnanimous.

1:49:21 > 1:49:24It's not for me to dole out munificence to Naomi Long

1:49:24 > 1:49:25or anyone else, but I do think...

1:49:25 > 1:49:27I'm clarifying what you said

1:49:27 > 1:49:29a minute ago, which seemed to suggest...

1:49:29 > 1:49:31They are presently an executive party, so I would imagine

1:49:31 > 1:49:35they'd be part of any discussions around the programme for government.

1:49:35 > 1:49:38At very least, I'd imagine the party would want people like Steven

1:49:38 > 1:49:43and David in the room to discuss the work programme that is left

1:49:43 > 1:49:46from the departments which they exited at the election.

1:49:46 > 1:49:48So I would imagine, at the very least,

1:49:48 > 1:49:51they would want them engaged at that level.

1:49:51 > 1:49:53OK, John O'Dowd, can you shed any light on this

1:49:53 > 1:49:54from Sinn Fein's perspective?

1:49:54 > 1:49:56Do you imagine that Alliance will be in those

1:49:56 > 1:49:58programme for government discussions?

1:49:58 > 1:50:00I think Naomi has summed it up there.

1:50:00 > 1:50:03There's experience for both David and Steven

1:50:03 > 1:50:06in relation to those departments they've left.

1:50:06 > 1:50:08And they do have experience which is useful

1:50:08 > 1:50:11for the rest of the political parties to be involved

1:50:11 > 1:50:13in elements of the programme for government.

1:50:13 > 1:50:16Perhaps the entirely around the programme for government.

1:50:16 > 1:50:20But we want to see moving forward an assembly which is fully functional

1:50:20 > 1:50:23and working and people are buying into a programme

1:50:23 > 1:50:27of delivery and change for this session.

1:50:27 > 1:50:29Right, Robin Swann, you said you want to be part of those

1:50:29 > 1:50:33conversations and you're entitled to be part of those conversations.

1:50:33 > 1:50:35But still you seriously want to be

1:50:35 > 1:50:39part of a propping-up Project Fear in the executive?

1:50:39 > 1:50:43We don't want to be part of what the last executive delivered.

1:50:43 > 1:50:45We don't want to be part of more of the same,

1:50:45 > 1:50:48we don't want to be part of 400,000 people on the waiting list.

1:50:48 > 1:50:51So, what you what need to hear to persuade you that you want

1:50:51 > 1:50:53Mike Nesbitt to be Minister for Education?

1:50:53 > 1:50:55We want to hear what's in the discussions.

1:50:55 > 1:50:57We want to hear what the other parties are putting on the table

1:50:57 > 1:50:59for the programme for government.

1:50:59 > 1:51:02Each party's set out a manifesto of different commitments and pledges.

1:51:02 > 1:51:05We want to see what makes up the final programme for government.

1:51:05 > 1:51:08And the see of the other parties are genuinely committed.

1:51:08 > 1:51:10But your hunch is that you'd want to be in the executive

1:51:10 > 1:51:12rather than in opposition?

1:51:12 > 1:51:15We want to be part of the talks around programme for government.

1:51:15 > 1:51:16That doesn't answer my question.

1:51:16 > 1:51:19Is your hunch that you want to be in the executive or the opposition?

1:51:19 > 1:51:22We want to be part of the talks around the programme for government.

1:51:22 > 1:51:26You've asked every Ulster Unionist politician that has come on

1:51:26 > 1:51:28and they've given you the same questions.

1:51:28 > 1:51:32You're consistent on that, if nothing else. Right, Nichola.

1:51:32 > 1:51:36What's your hunch about whether the SDLP should be in or out,

1:51:36 > 1:51:39as far as the executive is concerned?

1:51:39 > 1:51:42My hunch is the SDLP's position has been made very clear

1:51:42 > 1:51:44and we have been consistently making clear.

1:51:44 > 1:51:46We fought this election, we had a manifesto,

1:51:46 > 1:51:50we have key policy pledges, we'll be going in tomorrow morning

1:51:50 > 1:51:52to the Assembly, we'll be talking to the other parties.

1:51:52 > 1:51:56But we want to see what the content of the programme for government is.

1:51:56 > 1:51:59And if the content is strong, if it delivers on some of our key

1:51:59 > 1:52:02policy pledges, then yes, we will be government.

1:52:02 > 1:52:04If it doesn't, then we'll need to reflect upon that

1:52:04 > 1:52:06and consider our position.

1:52:06 > 1:52:08Or, of course, you could try to change it.

1:52:08 > 1:52:11It's interesting that both yourself and Robin Swann talked about

1:52:11 > 1:52:15what the other parties have in their draft programme for government.

1:52:15 > 1:52:18Forgive me for saying, but it's almost as if the DUP and Sinn Fein

1:52:18 > 1:52:20will hand or circulate some sort of document

1:52:20 > 1:52:23- that you either agree with or disagree with.- No, no.

1:52:23 > 1:52:25Should you not be part of influencing

1:52:25 > 1:52:27- the creation of that document? - Absolutely.

1:52:27 > 1:52:31Neither of you articulated it in quite that way though.

1:52:31 > 1:52:33Perhaps if I say it like this.

1:52:33 > 1:52:35We had a manifesto.

1:52:35 > 1:52:38Clearly the policy pledges were costed.

1:52:38 > 1:52:41Very clearly that was what we were standing in this election for.

1:52:41 > 1:52:44And that will form the basis of our negotiation on the content

1:52:44 > 1:52:46of the programme for government.

1:52:46 > 1:52:49And as part of that negotiation, we will be listening and inputting.

1:52:49 > 1:52:55And the truth is, we've already seen the bare bones

1:52:55 > 1:52:57of a draft programme for government

1:52:57 > 1:52:59in your two manifestos, Christopher.

1:52:59 > 1:53:04- Yes, but...- Yes.- But it's not a two-party government.

1:53:04 > 1:53:06But you're conceding we have seen the bare bones

1:53:06 > 1:53:08of a draft programme for government?

1:53:08 > 1:53:10No, you've seen us outlining our policies

1:53:10 > 1:53:14and the positions we will take in terms of any negotiations

1:53:14 > 1:53:16regarding a programme for government.

1:53:16 > 1:53:18And they're remarkably similar to Sinn Fein's.

1:53:18 > 1:53:22Well, what I would say is, if other parties have other ideas,

1:53:22 > 1:53:25they should bring those forward, we'll have the discussions.

1:53:25 > 1:53:29We should try and put together a programme for government

1:53:29 > 1:53:33that can command the support of as many in the house as possible.

1:53:33 > 1:53:35But you don't need their support.

1:53:35 > 1:53:38- Well...- What's the motivation for the DUP and Sinn Fein

1:53:38 > 1:53:39to have the other parties involved?

1:53:39 > 1:53:42The two of you can carve it up between you, and if they like it,

1:53:42 > 1:53:44they can support you and join the executive.

1:53:44 > 1:53:47If they don't like, they can lump it and go into opposition.

1:53:47 > 1:53:49So why would you be generous to them? I don't understand.

1:53:49 > 1:53:52Well, I don't think, to be fair, the SDLP in particular

1:53:52 > 1:53:56ran on a platform saying vote for us to be the opposition.

1:53:56 > 1:53:58I think they ran on a position of wanting to be

1:53:58 > 1:54:01in the government of Northern Ireland.

1:54:01 > 1:54:03The only way you can influence events in Northern Ireland

1:54:03 > 1:54:07in terms of delivering for your constituency is to be at the table.

1:54:07 > 1:54:09I understand that. I'm asking you why you would be

1:54:09 > 1:54:12so generous all of a sudden to your political opponents?

1:54:12 > 1:54:15It's not a case of me being generous, they've been mandated

1:54:15 > 1:54:19by the people who voted for them to be there in government.

1:54:19 > 1:54:22And if the people who voted for them mandated them

1:54:22 > 1:54:24to be there in government, then I think

1:54:24 > 1:54:27they should serve people who voted for them by being present.

1:54:27 > 1:54:28So you make it clear

1:54:28 > 1:54:30you'd rather they were in government than in opposition.

1:54:30 > 1:54:33It's entirely a matter for the Ulster Unionist Party and the SDLP.

1:54:33 > 1:54:35But from my perspective, I don't think the electorate

1:54:35 > 1:54:39voted for either of those parties to not fulfil their obligations.

1:54:39 > 1:54:42The people voted for them to be in the Assembly,

1:54:42 > 1:54:44not necessarily to be in the executive.

1:54:44 > 1:54:47I don't think people voted for an opposition,

1:54:47 > 1:54:50they voted for those parties to be present in government.

1:54:50 > 1:54:53John O'Dowd, would you like to have a two-party executive,

1:54:53 > 1:54:55just yourselves and the DUP?

1:54:55 > 1:54:57Would that be handier, cosier, easier?

1:54:57 > 1:54:59I believe in the principles of the Good Friday Agreement.

1:54:59 > 1:55:01And the Good Friday Agreement says

1:55:01 > 1:55:02we shall have a power sharing executive,

1:55:02 > 1:55:05and that's a power sharing executive including

1:55:05 > 1:55:07all those parties you have a mandate to be in government.

1:55:07 > 1:55:09But if you're in government, you're in government.

1:55:09 > 1:55:12And what we witnessed from the Ulster Unionist Party and the SDLP

1:55:12 > 1:55:16over this last five years was an opposition platform in government

1:55:16 > 1:55:18which destabilised the executive,

1:55:18 > 1:55:21which I think caused greater negativity in society

1:55:21 > 1:55:25and caused suspicion of politics. So I hope the SDLP

1:55:25 > 1:55:27and the Ulster Unionist Party go into government,

1:55:27 > 1:55:31but I hope they go into government to govern, not to be an opposition

1:55:31 > 1:55:34because if they're going to be an opposition,

1:55:34 > 1:55:35go outside the executive

1:55:35 > 1:55:39be an opposition cos there's nothing either of the two parties...

1:55:39 > 1:55:42I don't fear them being an opposition,

1:55:42 > 1:55:44I don't fear them being in government,

1:55:44 > 1:55:48but I do have serious concerns that the agenda of "in, out,

1:55:48 > 1:55:50"we're not sure if we're in government,

1:55:50 > 1:55:52"we're not sure if we're an opposition,"

1:55:52 > 1:55:53it's damaging the political institution.

1:55:53 > 1:55:56But I think, and they can speak for themselves,

1:55:56 > 1:55:59the criticism of the three smaller parties in the executive last time

1:55:59 > 1:56:01around was the fact that their voice wasn't sufficiently

1:56:01 > 1:56:04well heard by the two main parties, and that's why they were annoyed.

1:56:04 > 1:56:07Hang on. The electorate have just spoken.

1:56:07 > 1:56:11The only reason why Christopher and I represent the two largest parties

1:56:11 > 1:56:14is because the electorate went out on Thursday

1:56:14 > 1:56:16and made us the two largest parties.

1:56:16 > 1:56:18As you refer to the smaller parties,

1:56:18 > 1:56:20the electorate decided in numbers to vote

1:56:20 > 1:56:23and put them into positions they're in. That's democracy.

1:56:23 > 1:56:27- Naomi.- I think that that overstates how it was in the executive.

1:56:27 > 1:56:30I have to say, our minister has achieved a lot despite being there.

1:56:30 > 1:56:32Yeah, but they're frustrated as well.

1:56:32 > 1:56:34We've heard from David Ford and Stephen Farry

1:56:34 > 1:56:36- about how frustrating it was. - Of course,

1:56:36 > 1:56:38and we were clear about that.

1:56:38 > 1:56:41But to be fair, I think if you ask any minister in the last executive

1:56:41 > 1:56:43they'll point to issues where they were frustrated,

1:56:43 > 1:56:45where they couldn't deliver.

1:56:45 > 1:56:47The issue is whether or not you work constructively

1:56:47 > 1:56:49with the other people around the table.

1:56:49 > 1:56:51And we endeavoured to do that - but what I want to say is this.

1:56:51 > 1:56:53There was a difference

1:56:53 > 1:56:55in terms of how we dealt with the justice ministry

1:56:55 > 1:56:59and that we got that after negotiations on the programme

1:56:59 > 1:57:02for government, and David Ford has been very clear in paying tribute.

1:57:02 > 1:57:04And to both the DUP and Sinn Fein

1:57:04 > 1:57:06that when they got the deal for justice

1:57:06 > 1:57:08around what the programme would be

1:57:08 > 1:57:12they stuck to their word and allowed him to deliver within that remit.

1:57:12 > 1:57:14Now if that happens,

1:57:14 > 1:57:17that didn't happen around the wider executive last time.

1:57:17 > 1:57:20If that happens around the executive this time

1:57:20 > 1:57:23and people continue to stick to their word on those issues,

1:57:23 > 1:57:25I don't think that any party that has something to offer

1:57:25 > 1:57:28has anything to fear from being part of it.

1:57:28 > 1:57:31I don't think I overstated it as far as the Ulster Unionist's

1:57:31 > 1:57:32position is concerned.

1:57:32 > 1:57:35Danny Kennedy at DRD was absolutely raging at the way

1:57:35 > 1:57:37he was treated by the two bigger parties.

1:57:37 > 1:57:40He was, and he was continually financially hamstrung by DUP

1:57:40 > 1:57:42through monitoring rounds and through a decrease in budget.

1:57:42 > 1:57:45As was Michael McGimpsey before him as health minister.

1:57:45 > 1:57:46But all the ministers were.

1:57:46 > 1:57:48You'd be willing to guarantee this round,

1:57:48 > 1:57:51you'd want to guarantee this time...

1:57:51 > 1:57:56He left a £20 million shortfall in his own budget.

1:57:56 > 1:57:59It was the £20 million that was meant to come out...

1:57:59 > 1:58:02They expected the executive to take the money out of health

1:58:02 > 1:58:05and education and other places to fill the £20 million hole

1:58:05 > 1:58:07he deliberately left in DRD.

1:58:07 > 1:58:10That's £20 million that should have been in his budget.

1:58:10 > 1:58:13OK, let's not fight that old battle again.

1:58:13 > 1:58:16But the point is you would want to be sure that that scenario

1:58:16 > 1:58:20wasn't going to replay in the next mandate

1:58:20 > 1:58:22if you're going to go into the executive.

1:58:22 > 1:58:23Is that the point?

1:58:23 > 1:58:26And that's why we put that forward before 2011.

1:58:26 > 1:58:28And that's why it's taking part now,

1:58:28 > 1:58:33that we do the programme for government before we run the hunt.

1:58:33 > 1:58:37In fairness, that has been our position since 1998.

1:58:37 > 1:58:39And we actually made it work around justice

1:58:39 > 1:58:41by engaging with people. And to be fair,

1:58:41 > 1:58:44to hide behind things like cuts in your budget to say that was

1:58:44 > 1:58:46the only reason you didn't deliver,

1:58:46 > 1:58:48it's also by the calibre of your minister

1:58:48 > 1:58:49and how they manage the budget.

1:58:49 > 1:58:52Quick final thought, Nichola, on this, before I take one final issue.

1:58:52 > 1:58:55Just to say the SDLP was very frustrated

1:58:55 > 1:58:56by the culture within the executive.

1:58:56 > 1:58:59But under the ministers that we had,

1:58:59 > 1:59:01we think we can stand on a strong track record.

1:59:01 > 1:59:03When the SDLP hold ministries they get things done.

1:59:03 > 1:59:05I want to ask you about one issue

1:59:05 > 1:59:08which has blown up on social media today,

1:59:08 > 1:59:11and I am going put it first to Christopher.

1:59:11 > 1:59:13I want to get a reaction from John.

1:59:13 > 1:59:16There's a lot of Twitter reaction to a post that Gregory Campbell

1:59:16 > 1:59:18put on Facebook. I don't know if you've seen it,

1:59:18 > 1:59:21Christopher Stalford. He says, "Excellent election results.

1:59:21 > 1:59:23"Sinn Fein long term plan just got an awful lot longer

1:59:23 > 1:59:26"and breaking the habit of a lifetime to send best wishes

1:59:26 > 1:59:29"to Raymond McCartney, Shinner MLA in Foyle - why, you may ask?

1:59:29 > 1:59:31"Because he's a bit more successful at electioneering

1:59:31 > 1:59:33"than he was at hunger striking."

1:59:33 > 1:59:35How's that appropriate?

1:59:35 > 1:59:38Well, I think those that are reacting to comments

1:59:38 > 1:59:44that were made on social media, a lot of contrived anger around this.

1:59:44 > 1:59:47I think it was a throwaway joke remark...

1:59:47 > 1:59:49- Was it?- ..by Gregory.

1:59:49 > 1:59:52And I think a lot of those who are expressing fury and outrage

1:59:52 > 1:59:55were a lot less slow in expressing their fury and outrage

1:59:55 > 1:59:58at some of the Twitter comments that have been made recently

1:59:58 > 2:00:00by the eccentric president of Sinn Fein.

2:00:00 > 2:00:03So you think it was perfectly reasonable for him to put that up?

2:00:03 > 2:00:07Well, look, I think if the worst that Gregory Campbell does

2:00:07 > 2:00:09to a Sinn Fein representative is insult him,

2:00:09 > 2:00:13there are people who have from a republican background

2:00:13 > 2:00:16who have done a lot worse to Gregory Campbell down through the years,

2:00:16 > 2:00:19and that includes attmepts to murder him and his family.

2:00:19 > 2:00:21John, other Sinn Fein representatives

2:00:21 > 2:00:22have been pretty unhappy

2:00:22 > 2:00:25and have demanded that those remarks be withdrawn.

2:00:25 > 2:00:26What's your view?

2:00:26 > 2:00:28I think in this era they should be withdrawn.

2:00:28 > 2:00:31And we're talking about going in to discuss a programme

2:00:31 > 2:00:34for government, and have mutual respect,

2:00:34 > 2:00:36mutual trust, mutual understanding within that.

2:00:36 > 2:00:38But Gregory Campbell's a fool,

2:00:38 > 2:00:41and he's away now to Westminster to retire.

2:00:41 > 2:00:44I wish him well, staying over there.

2:00:44 > 2:00:47And does that kind of spat, as we bring this conversation to an end,

2:00:47 > 2:00:49really augur well for the future?

2:00:49 > 2:00:51No, cos I don't think Gregory Campbell

2:00:51 > 2:00:54represents the vast majority within the DUP.

2:00:54 > 2:00:56I think the man is a loose cannon with the DUP.

2:00:56 > 2:01:00I believe, and it's my experience over this last five years,

2:01:00 > 2:01:03and last number of weeks,

2:01:03 > 2:01:07- the unionist community want to work with republican...- OK.

2:01:07 > 2:01:10- And the republican community wants to work with unionist.- Christopher.

2:01:10 > 2:01:14I think Gregory Campbell's a valued member of our party,

2:01:14 > 2:01:17a very strong constituency Member of Parliament in East Londonderry.

2:01:17 > 2:01:20Not a fool? He's gone to Westminster to retire.

2:01:20 > 2:01:23No, he's not. And were he, he would not have been elected so many times

2:01:23 > 2:01:27by the people of the East Londonderry constituency.

2:01:27 > 2:01:32And I know the circumstances around Gregory's family

2:01:32 > 2:01:37and himself have been targeted many times by republicans for murder.

2:01:37 > 2:01:40- Yeah, you said that.- But let's keep these things in perspective.

2:01:40 > 2:01:43You said it, we haven't got time to say it again.

2:01:43 > 2:01:45And the president of Sinn Fein...

2:01:45 > 2:01:49You've said that as well. Naomi, you're shaking your head.

2:01:49 > 2:01:50I genuinely think that it is time

2:01:50 > 2:01:52that Gregory stops trying to be funny,

2:01:52 > 2:01:55because it falls flat on every occasion.

2:01:55 > 2:01:57It's insulting to the electorate,

2:01:57 > 2:01:59it's insulting to the people that he attacks.

2:01:59 > 2:02:01It isn't amusing, it's childish and pathetic,

2:02:01 > 2:02:04and frankly somebody should take over his social media account.

2:02:04 > 2:02:07And I would give the same advice to a lot of other politicians,

2:02:07 > 2:02:09including Gerry Adams over the last while.

2:02:09 > 2:02:11Somebody needs to manage their accounts,

2:02:11 > 2:02:12because when they go on these outbursts

2:02:12 > 2:02:14they do politics no service.

2:02:14 > 2:02:16We need to leave it there, folks. Thank you all very much.

2:02:16 > 2:02:19No doubt we will hear a lot more from you weeks and months ahead.

2:02:19 > 2:02:21Now, while Arlene Foster may be basking

2:02:21 > 2:02:22in a job well done this weekend,

2:02:22 > 2:02:25some party leaders might have other thoughts.

2:02:25 > 2:02:26We'll hear more on that in a moment,

2:02:26 > 2:02:29but first here's the Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams

2:02:29 > 2:02:30who was at the Belfast count.

2:02:30 > 2:02:33Tara Mills asked him if there was any disappointment on his part

2:02:33 > 2:02:36that People Before Profit had topped the poll in his old constituency.

2:02:36 > 2:02:40Ranting at something or shouting at something about something

2:02:40 > 2:02:44or protesting about something is all very well. It isn't a policy.

2:02:44 > 2:02:47What we're actively doing, and it's there, the proof is there,

2:02:47 > 2:02:49is tackling the issue of poverty,

2:02:49 > 2:02:53tackling the issue of disadvantage, deprivation, housing, homelessness

2:02:53 > 2:02:55all of those issues, bringing jobs in,

2:02:55 > 2:02:59pressing ahead with equality, working towards Irish unity,

2:02:59 > 2:03:01reaching out to our unionist neighbours.

2:03:01 > 2:03:04We're doing all of those things, and we will continue to do that.

2:03:04 > 2:03:06What about some of the things during the campaign,

2:03:06 > 2:03:09what was your personal view on the Catholic Church handed out leaflets

2:03:09 > 2:03:13at Mass and really going the extra mile to say,

2:03:13 > 2:03:17"Catholics should think about the moral questions,

2:03:17 > 2:03:21"particularly over abortion and same-sex marriage"?

2:03:21 > 2:03:25Well, I'm a Catholic. Nobody consulted me on that.

2:03:25 > 2:03:28So it wasn't the Catholic Church, it was the Catholic hierarchy.

2:03:28 > 2:03:32And they have the same rights as everybody else

2:03:32 > 2:03:34to put their opinions on any issue

2:03:34 > 2:03:38and those who believe in what they said will vote accordingly

2:03:38 > 2:03:40and the rest make of us who make up our own minds.

2:03:40 > 2:03:42will also vote accordingly.

2:03:42 > 2:03:44When it comes to the campaign as well,

2:03:44 > 2:03:47obviously you apologised for the tweet earlier in the week,

2:03:47 > 2:03:48do you think it had any impact

2:03:48 > 2:03:51and do you think it calls into question your leadership

2:03:51 > 2:03:56of Sinn Fein as other party leaders are now looking at their leadership?

2:03:56 > 2:03:59Well, I've exhausted that issue.

2:03:59 > 2:04:03I didn't think it had any effect whatsoever

2:04:03 > 2:04:05in terms of the election campaign.

2:04:07 > 2:04:11But people have said it was an aberration, people find it difficult

2:04:11 > 2:04:14to understand how anyone could use that particular word in...

2:04:14 > 2:04:19Well, as I've said, I've dealt with the issue exhaustively.

2:04:19 > 2:04:23My main point I stand over.

2:04:23 > 2:04:26The parallels between the Irish and the African American

2:04:26 > 2:04:29and the parallels between the American Civil Rights movement

2:04:29 > 2:04:31and the civil rights movement here...

2:04:31 > 2:04:33And you don't think you're any hindrance

2:04:33 > 2:04:36to the all-Ireland ambition of Sinn Fein?

2:04:36 > 2:04:38You don't think Sinn Fein needs a new leader?

2:04:38 > 2:04:41Sinn Fein will have the leader that it has until it gets another leader.

2:04:41 > 2:04:43At the moment I'm that leader and I do my best,

2:04:43 > 2:04:45and, of course, if I thought I was a hindrance,

2:04:45 > 2:04:47I would go and do something else.

2:04:47 > 2:04:50Gerry Adams talking there at the Belfast count.

2:04:50 > 2:04:52Let's hear the reflections of my guests of the day.

2:04:52 > 2:04:55Fionnuala O Connor, Alex Kane and Mark Devenport.

2:04:55 > 2:04:56Welcome to you all.

2:04:56 > 2:04:59Mark, I just want to pick up with you first on that Facebook spat

2:04:59 > 2:05:02with Gregory Campbell and Sinn Fein.

2:05:02 > 2:05:06He was critical of Raymond McCartney, trying to hear a joke.

2:05:06 > 2:05:08We hear from Christopher Stalford.

2:05:08 > 2:05:10And there has been quite a bit of reaction.

2:05:10 > 2:05:14You heard there John O'Dowd did not miss and hit the wall, as they say,

2:05:14 > 2:05:17calling Gregory Campbell a fool and claiming Westminster

2:05:17 > 2:05:20is now effectively a retirement home for him.

2:05:20 > 2:05:24I'm sure Gregory Campbell won't see it that way.

2:05:24 > 2:05:26You do get a sense, though,

2:05:26 > 2:05:29that the same kind of focus that there is on Stormont

2:05:29 > 2:05:32is not directed as Westminster so much these days

2:05:32 > 2:05:34and maybe there's that whole business, now,

2:05:34 > 2:05:36the MPs needing to make themselves relevant,

2:05:36 > 2:05:39and Gregory Campbell's got a bit of a track record there.

2:05:39 > 2:05:42The other thing I would say about it is that we will probably

2:05:42 > 2:05:45continue to have the situation where, on the one hand,

2:05:45 > 2:05:48you'll have Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness

2:05:48 > 2:05:50turning up at events and working together

2:05:50 > 2:05:52and supposedly having this new spirit of partnership

2:05:52 > 2:05:55and the Fresh Start Agreement, and so on.

2:05:55 > 2:05:58And it will continue to coexist with rows about flags,

2:05:58 > 2:06:01rows about legacy issues and so on.

2:06:01 > 2:06:02That's one of the reasons, I suppose,

2:06:02 > 2:06:05why dealing with the past has proved so difficult for them

2:06:05 > 2:06:07to come up with a common approach to it.

2:06:07 > 2:06:10Fionnuala, I just want to talk about the issue of leadership.

2:06:10 > 2:06:12Some have referred to the cult of the leadership,

2:06:12 > 2:06:15as that's something new in this election. Arlene Foster,

2:06:15 > 2:06:18the whole campaign from the DUP's point of view being about Arlene.

2:06:18 > 2:06:20And then we've had Gerry Adams' involvement in that tweet

2:06:20 > 2:06:22and the controversy surrounding that.

2:06:22 > 2:06:25A new leader in Colum Eastwood, he didn't really deliver for the SDLP.

2:06:25 > 2:06:28Do you think it's a phenomenon that is worthy of attention,

2:06:28 > 2:06:32or has anything really changed?

2:06:32 > 2:06:34No, it's not worthy of attention,

2:06:34 > 2:06:37because it's true all over the world.

2:06:37 > 2:06:39And nothing has really changed.

2:06:39 > 2:06:43Arlene is trying to do two things at the same time -

2:06:43 > 2:06:46as other people have said.

2:06:46 > 2:06:50Mark has just said it in a different way.

2:06:50 > 2:06:54She's trying simultaneously to say, "I will not allow Sinn Fein to

2:06:54 > 2:06:57"rewrite the past, I will not allow anybody to rewrite the past",

2:06:57 > 2:07:01hammering away at this "innocent victims" thing, whilst saying,

2:07:01 > 2:07:04"I'm off again with Martin McGuinness

2:07:04 > 2:07:06"to sell Northern Ireland abroad."

2:07:06 > 2:07:09So she should be able to relax a bit now,

2:07:09 > 2:07:13and not flog that first bit so hard,

2:07:13 > 2:07:18having done a very successful tour during the election.

2:07:18 > 2:07:21She probably won't, because it probably is what she really thinks.

2:07:21 > 2:07:24She cannot let go of the...

2:07:24 > 2:07:27Won't allow Sinn Fein to rewrite themselves.

2:07:27 > 2:07:30They've long ago rewritten themselves.

2:07:30 > 2:07:32Alex, you look at the conversation we've just had

2:07:32 > 2:07:34with representatives of the five main parties,

2:07:34 > 2:07:35I wonder what you made of it?

2:07:35 > 2:07:38Struck me there was an effort at magnanimity at one stage

2:07:38 > 2:07:40on the part of the two bigger parties,

2:07:40 > 2:07:42but then, on another occasions, we had the same old, same old,

2:07:42 > 2:07:45and we had the snipping across the table about Project Fear?

2:07:45 > 2:07:47And I think that's inevitable.

2:07:47 > 2:07:51What we know from this outcome, DUP and Sinn Fein have got

2:07:51 > 2:07:55a very clear, unambiguous mandate to work together.

2:07:55 > 2:07:56That's what they now need to do.

2:07:56 > 2:07:58And sometimes you think it looks good,

2:07:58 > 2:08:00the body language is good.

2:08:00 > 2:08:02I've talked to people on Friday night and on Saturday,

2:08:02 > 2:08:03yes, we need to do this.

2:08:03 > 2:08:06But then get them round the table, get them into a room

2:08:06 > 2:08:08and the old snippy, snappy, snarly,

2:08:08 > 2:08:10it's almost like, go back to the past.

2:08:10 > 2:08:13It's almost like a default position for some of them.

2:08:13 > 2:08:15It's easier to have that rather than a proper debate

2:08:15 > 2:08:16about what they're going to do.

2:08:16 > 2:08:18Do you think the Programme for Government

2:08:18 > 2:08:20- is effectively already written? - Of course it is.

2:08:20 > 2:08:22I mean, Danny Kennedy himself said it,

2:08:22 > 2:08:23I think the SDLP referred to it as well.

2:08:23 > 2:08:26Three quarters of the Programme for Government is the Fresh Start,

2:08:26 > 2:08:28which the other three parties rejected.

2:08:28 > 2:08:30That's why I think I would just leave it.

2:08:30 > 2:08:32DUP, Sinn Fein got their mandate,

2:08:32 > 2:08:34I think they should say, "OK, guys, get on with it.

2:08:34 > 2:08:37"We didn't get a mandate, we did not get a mandate to eclipse you.

2:08:37 > 2:08:39"We didn't get a mandate to make it work.

2:08:39 > 2:08:41"We didn't get a mandate to do something different.

2:08:41 > 2:08:43- "Go and be the opposition." - Fionnuala?

2:08:43 > 2:08:45I don't think they're going to be the opposition.

2:08:45 > 2:08:47I don't think they're going to be.

2:08:47 > 2:08:50Because they can't resist the lure of ministerial office?

2:08:50 > 2:08:52No, there's a harsh reality.

2:08:52 > 2:08:55If they don't go in, there are four DUP ministers

2:08:55 > 2:08:57and three Sinn Fein ministers, and nobody else.

2:08:57 > 2:09:02I think any politician worth their weight in gold -

2:09:02 > 2:09:06and there's quite a lot of gold there - could not resist that.

2:09:06 > 2:09:10Even though, in office, they felt neglected, they felt overruled.

2:09:10 > 2:09:12They still had a department each.

2:09:12 > 2:09:15And that's a big thing for parties to give up.

2:09:15 > 2:09:18For something unknown, something unfocused.

2:09:18 > 2:09:21In a tiny, make-believe assembly.

2:09:21 > 2:09:23Tiny, make-believe legislature.

2:09:23 > 2:09:25They've got have something to show their people.

2:09:25 > 2:09:27And they've got to have something

2:09:27 > 2:09:29for themselves to get their teeth into.

2:09:29 > 2:09:34And there is now this far more vocal group of opposition speakers.

2:09:34 > 2:09:35The real opposition will be

2:09:35 > 2:09:40Jim Allister, Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll, Claire Sugden.

2:09:40 > 2:09:41And the Greens,

2:09:41 > 2:09:44who already have some experience in this kind of thing.

2:09:44 > 2:09:47And, Mark, it's interesting when you look at it.

2:09:47 > 2:09:50Should we be talking about two parties - the main two parties -

2:09:50 > 2:09:52or four parties, including Sinn Fein and the SDLP.

2:09:52 > 2:09:57Or five parties, because as we said in that, and as Naomi Long conceded,

2:09:57 > 2:09:59as of right, the Alliance Party may not be at those

2:09:59 > 2:10:01discussions about the Programme for Government?

2:10:01 > 2:10:04This is the fortnight of discussions on the Programme for Government.

2:10:04 > 2:10:07First, we're not quite sure whether they'll last for a fortnight.

2:10:07 > 2:10:09They could be much quicker than that.

2:10:09 > 2:10:12If there is a draft Programme for Government, as Alex said,

2:10:12 > 2:10:14some of it is already in the Fresh Start Agreement,

2:10:14 > 2:10:17quite a lot of it appears to be in the very similar looking

2:10:17 > 2:10:19DUP and Sinn Fein manifestoes.

2:10:19 > 2:10:21So if they've got that, they could push this on.

2:10:21 > 2:10:24The Fresh Start Agreement talks about involving those parties

2:10:24 > 2:10:26who qualify for government. That's the four.

2:10:26 > 2:10:29But it also says - and I have to pay debt to Alex on this,

2:10:29 > 2:10:32because he pointed at the small print to me - it also says,

2:10:32 > 2:10:36"Who have indicated their intention is to take a place in government."

2:10:36 > 2:10:39So if the DUP and Sinn Fein were wanting to be really hardline

2:10:39 > 2:10:43about this, they could say, well, if you want to come into these

2:10:43 > 2:10:45negotiations, can you first indicate your intention to take a place?

2:10:45 > 2:10:49Which, so far, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists

2:10:49 > 2:10:51haven't firmly done so.

2:10:51 > 2:10:54I suspect they won't be quite so hardline,

2:10:54 > 2:10:57certainly at the start of the negotiations.

2:10:57 > 2:11:00But they might curtail negotiations at an earlier stage

2:11:00 > 2:11:03than the others would like and put it up to them.

2:11:03 > 2:11:06I also suspect that even though Alliance might not,

2:11:06 > 2:11:10as of right, be in the negotiations - because the DUP

2:11:10 > 2:11:12and Sinn Fein at the moment don't have a plan B

2:11:12 > 2:11:14in relation to the Justice Department -

2:11:14 > 2:11:17I suspect that they'll be wanting to involve Alliance in that.

2:11:17 > 2:11:20We basically heard much the same, I think, from John O'Dowd

2:11:20 > 2:11:23and others who you were speaking to there in the discussion

2:11:23 > 2:11:25that they will be bringing the Alliance in.

2:11:25 > 2:11:27And Fionnuala made the point there, Alex,

2:11:27 > 2:11:29that there is that oppositional corner already, and it could be

2:11:29 > 2:11:32very effective with the additions that we have seen to it.

2:11:32 > 2:11:35But you think that if there is bravery

2:11:35 > 2:11:38demonstrated by the SDLP - and "bravery" in inverted commas -

2:11:38 > 2:11:40by the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists,

2:11:40 > 2:11:41it should be to move into opposition.

2:11:41 > 2:11:44Because there now is the possibility of formal opposition,

2:11:44 > 2:11:46- which there wasn't previously? - That's the key point.

2:11:46 > 2:11:49What we have, the so-called naughty corner.

2:11:49 > 2:11:52It wasn't an opposition, it didn't get speakers' rights.

2:11:52 > 2:11:54Jim Allister had to wait hours and hours

2:11:54 > 2:11:56to get maybe three minutes, so did the others.

2:11:56 > 2:11:58So that's not opposition.

2:11:58 > 2:12:00The other thing I think where Fionnuala's wrong on this one,

2:12:00 > 2:12:03for all the fact that the SDLP and Ulster Unionists said

2:12:03 > 2:12:06it was really important to be in the executive from 2007-2016,

2:12:06 > 2:12:09they lost votes - they all lost - not one of them gained a seat,

2:12:09 > 2:12:11not one of them actually put on a vote.

2:12:11 > 2:12:13There is nothing to be gained by stuck in that executive.

2:12:13 > 2:12:15- There's nothing... - Last sentence, Fionnuala.

2:12:15 > 2:12:17..to be gained by being out of it,

2:12:17 > 2:12:19and they are not natural coalition partners,

2:12:19 > 2:12:20the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists.

2:12:20 > 2:12:23- Except in losing votes. - Nor the DUP or Sinn Fein.

2:12:23 > 2:12:25- That doesn't work either! - We need to leave it there, folks.

2:12:25 > 2:12:26Thank you all very much indeed.

2:12:26 > 2:12:29That is it for the special election edition of Sunday Politics.

2:12:29 > 2:12:31I'll be back with The View on Thursday night

2:12:31 > 2:12:32here on BBC One at 10:45.

2:12:32 > 2:12:35But I'll leave you with a reminder of some of the highlights

2:12:35 > 2:12:37of the 2016 Assembly election.

2:12:37 > 2:12:39And as before, there is some flash photography.

2:12:39 > 2:12:40From all of us, bye-bye.

2:12:49 > 2:12:51# I remember us alone

2:12:51 > 2:12:53# Waiting for the light to go

2:12:53 > 2:12:55# Don't you feel that hunger?

2:12:55 > 2:12:57# I've got so many secrets to show

2:12:57 > 2:13:00# When I saw you on that stage

2:13:00 > 2:13:02# I shiver with the look you gave

2:13:02 > 2:13:04# Don't you hear that rhythm?

2:13:04 > 2:13:07# Can you show me how we can escape?

2:13:07 > 2:13:12# Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh

2:13:12 > 2:13:13# I was biting my tongue

2:13:13 > 2:13:16# I was trying to hide

2:13:16 > 2:13:20# Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh

2:13:20 > 2:13:23# I'll forget what I've done

2:13:23 > 2:13:25# I'll be redefined... #

2:13:25 > 2:13:27Eamonn McCann, People Before Profit Alliance.

2:13:27 > 2:13:29CHEERING

2:13:32 > 2:13:35Infamously, Alex Kane said that he would sing on the steps

2:13:35 > 2:13:39of Stormont if Clare Bailey got elected in South Belfast.

2:13:39 > 2:13:43Well, I believe he is going to honour that promise.

2:13:43 > 2:13:45# I'm holding it all tonight

2:13:45 > 2:13:47# I'm folding it all tonight

2:13:47 > 2:13:48# You know that you make it shine

2:13:48 > 2:13:51# It's you that I've been waiting to find... #

2:13:51 > 2:13:53I may have been...

2:13:53 > 2:13:55I was ambitious.

2:13:55 > 2:13:56..what you've put it in with?

2:13:58 > 2:14:00Well, I can't bring you any scandal,

2:14:00 > 2:14:03either generated by myself or generated by others.

2:14:06 > 2:14:09# It's you that I've been waiting to find

2:14:09 > 2:14:15# Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh

2:14:15 > 2:14:19# It's you that I've been waiting to find. #

2:14:19 > 2:14:21Well, I'm unemployed. I need to go and look for a job.

2:14:21 > 2:14:27# Internationally unite... #