:01:36. > :01:37.are the business consultant and commentator Joanne Stuart and the
:01:38. > :01:38.Belfast Telegraph's political editor, Liam Clarke.
:01:39. > :01:42.The controversy surrounding the On the Run letters has dominated
:01:43. > :01:49.politics here for the last two weeks. The Secretary of State may
:01:50. > :01:52.have announced the scheme is over, but the fallout out from the
:01:53. > :02:00."comfort letters" is set to rumble on for months.
:02:01. > :02:03.So can the First and Deputy First Ministers set aside their
:02:04. > :02:06.differences this week as they head to America to meet investors and
:02:07. > :02:09.politicians? We'll hear from Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey in just a moment.
:02:10. > :02:12.But first, when our political correspondent Martina Purdy spoke to
:02:13. > :02:20.Peter Robinson on Friday, she asked him how significant the announcement
:02:21. > :02:25.from the Secretary of State is. The one that is still left to be
:02:26. > :02:28.dealt with is whether there are ongoing investigations into the
:02:29. > :02:31.cases were letters have been issued and that is a vital area because
:02:32. > :02:39.without those ongoing investigations into those cases then largely the
:02:40. > :02:49.cases are closed. We want that clarification from the PSNI.
:02:50. > :02:51.The scheme was set to be ended in 2012, what is new about what has
:02:52. > :03:06.been said. Since 2012 they taken further applications but there
:03:07. > :03:10.be an important factor. Do you believe what you have been told us
:03:11. > :03:15.last week you said you were deceived by the government? I happy that we
:03:16. > :03:24.have inquiry is coming out of our eyes and
:03:25. > :03:27.have inquiry is coming out of our the outstanding cases, six cases
:03:28. > :03:34.now. I do satisfy these are off of the table? I do not have to guess at
:03:35. > :03:40.this any longer that is what we have an inquiry for. It is not just those
:03:41. > :03:45.six cases because I still have to be satisfied that there are no other
:03:46. > :03:48.cases and the system. Do not forget, there have been many different
:03:49. > :03:53.entries into the system. The Irish government put forward under the
:03:54. > :03:57.terms of the administrative scheme that came through Sinn Fein and the
:03:58. > :04:02.also came through the prison service and I am still at odds to imagine
:04:03. > :04:05.how the prison service could have been action in ten cases and what
:04:06. > :04:10.relevance it would have to the prison service or indeed as I
:04:11. > :04:14.understand that solicitors have been putting in cases as well. You cannot
:04:15. > :04:20.be sure that those five or six cases of OTRs are the table? The Secretary
:04:21. > :04:24.of State has spoken about that but I do not have any knowledge and I
:04:25. > :04:28.cannot answer that question. The Secretary of State has made comments
:04:29. > :04:33.that there will be a full inquiry and the Westminster led inquiry and
:04:34. > :04:35.the Justice Committee inquiry and the Policing Board inquiry and at
:04:36. > :04:39.the end of that we will know the truth. What about the fact that you
:04:40. > :04:43.ask for the letters to be descended, they have not been
:04:44. > :04:50.rescinded? You have decided that? What does rescinding mine? I thought
:04:51. > :04:54.it meant making it null and void. If you no longer have those letters and
:04:55. > :04:59.being able to stop anyone from being arrested, from being questioned,
:05:00. > :05:04.from being prosecuted, they are null and void. I only need one other
:05:05. > :05:08.Catholic and I asked for it earlier in this interview and that is to
:05:09. > :05:12.ensure that those letters are not a mechanism to stop further
:05:13. > :05:16.investigation of the cases, the files must be open and continually
:05:17. > :05:24.reviewed and updated to see if new evidence can be brought about. Your
:05:25. > :05:28.meeting Bill Clinton ever this week. How did that meeting go? We had a
:05:29. > :05:34.very good meeting with President Clinton. He is well known to us and
:05:35. > :05:39.we have met him many times. He understands the difficulties of the
:05:40. > :05:44.process and we talked about the difficulties and how we may move
:05:45. > :05:48.forward to deal with these issues. I made it clear in the Assembly before
:05:49. > :05:53.that Bill Clinton met us and these were issues that could not be
:05:54. > :05:58.dodged. They have to be dealt with and whether we deal with them now or
:05:59. > :06:02.in six months' time, it is still a vital issue that must be resolved.
:06:03. > :06:07.Everyone was aware that the leaders' talks were carrying forward
:06:08. > :06:09.the agenda and in my view we have made considerable progress and I
:06:10. > :06:16.indicated that two Martin McGuinness and David Ford in a meeting that the
:06:17. > :06:20.three of us attended. We were making good progress and then this came out
:06:21. > :06:26.and it has derailed the process, especially for the Ulster unionist
:06:27. > :06:29.Party. In terms of the past, it has stayed the process until we know the
:06:30. > :06:36.outcome of the judge-led inquiry. Is that why there has been no meetings
:06:37. > :06:39.with party leaders this week? We were sitting down and trying to deal
:06:40. > :06:44.with issues relating to the past. One of those key elements was what
:06:45. > :06:47.form of justice could we get for those who still have not had justice
:06:48. > :06:52.for the loss of loved ones and that the same time we were uncertain as
:06:53. > :06:56.to what the outcome of this process would be so that is a factor. It
:06:57. > :07:01.does not stop us from continuing to talk to those other two areas in
:07:02. > :07:04.relation to parades or flags and I believe that the work that should
:07:05. > :07:09.continue. What about speculation that President Obama may be said
:07:10. > :07:13.that he does not want to meet you and Martin McGuinness in Washington
:07:14. > :07:19.this week? We have met the president at least half a dozen times and he
:07:20. > :07:23.is always glad to talk to us and we are all was glad to talk to him and
:07:24. > :07:25.to indicate the progress we are making and the difficulties we are
:07:26. > :07:37.facing. We are always making and the difficulties we are
:07:38. > :07:40.relation to our economy. Meetings are always set up as they have been
:07:41. > :07:44.in the past. I recognise the president will be very busy with
:07:45. > :07:48.events in the Ukraine but no one can take anyone and anything for granted
:07:49. > :07:54.but they are glad to have this meeting. But you are only meeting
:07:55. > :07:56.Vice-President Joe Biden? We will be meeting him as well, yes.
:07:57. > :08:00.Peter Robinson speaking to Martina Purdy.
:08:01. > :08:02.Sinn Fein claims the move to stop the OTR scheme is "another
:08:03. > :08:06.ill-informed, ill-timed intervention by Theresa Villiers in relation to
:08:07. > :08:08.the peace process". The party's South Belfast MLA Alex Maskey is
:08:09. > :08:11.with me now. What does the Secretary of State's
:08:12. > :08:23.statement on Friday change? Thank you for joining us. Essentially
:08:24. > :08:25.nothing because this scheme was agreed between the British
:08:26. > :08:31.Government and the Irish Government as far back as 2001. The process has
:08:32. > :08:37.been underway throughout all those years and we have heard of this and
:08:38. > :08:41.last week all of the wide range of examples that this process was under
:08:42. > :08:45.way and someone may argue they were not aware of any letter but they
:08:46. > :08:52.were aware of the process being underweight. It has been announced.
:08:53. > :08:58.We know that all of the parties were aware of this process so why did
:08:59. > :09:03.they not bother to find out whether there was a letter or a phone call
:09:04. > :09:08.or how was this information to be translated to the people who had
:09:09. > :09:17.sought clarification? It does not change anything.
:09:18. > :09:21.So the Secretary of State is correct when she said these letters will not
:09:22. > :09:28.amount to any amnesty or get you out of jail? That is correct? No one
:09:29. > :09:31.ever claimed anything different. Only politicians who try to make
:09:32. > :09:41.more out of it than what it was. That is the irony of all of this.
:09:42. > :09:44.They are worth a lot on two bases. The letter is clear in number of
:09:45. > :09:54.individuals who wants to come home and
:09:55. > :09:59.individuals who wants to come home clear them on the fact that there
:10:00. > :10:04.was nothing against them. The word cleared could be misinterpreted. It
:10:05. > :10:09.cleared the status. Anyone could go forward today, it is the legal
:10:10. > :10:12.entitlements, to go forward today and asked for clarification and say
:10:13. > :10:18.that this particular scheme, anyone has the right to look at it. It is
:10:19. > :10:22.important for two reasons, on the good faith, all of the recipients of
:10:23. > :10:29.the letters are able to rebuild their lives. The second, an
:10:30. > :10:34.arrangement was reached by both arguments as far back as 2001 and
:10:35. > :10:36.any resistance to that would be poor.
:10:37. > :10:40.So, was Ian Paisley right when he said on Thursday night that what
:10:41. > :10:48.OTRs now have in their pockets are a "beaten docket"? He's right when he
:10:49. > :10:55.says those individuals know "we're coming after them" as he put it? Ian
:10:56. > :11:07.Paisley has said a lot over the years. His comments are totally
:11:08. > :11:14.irrelevant to me. So you had a deal and the British
:11:15. > :11:22.Government has now broken that deal? He was happy that the British Prime
:11:23. > :11:27.Minister is looking at this inquiry. But Peter Robinson seems to be happy
:11:28. > :11:34.one day and not the next. What does he really want? Peter Robinson and
:11:35. > :11:38.others have created a storm and they do not know where it will end up and
:11:39. > :11:42.they may end up regretting creating this storm, they have created a
:11:43. > :11:49.crisis. Let us be clear, a crisis was created that did not need to be
:11:50. > :11:56.met. It would have been better to be is this other one. They say that
:11:57. > :11:57.this was a side deal that they knew nothing about and would never have
:11:58. > :12:11.been agreed to. Rosett -- misrepresent the truth.
:12:12. > :12:19.They have welcomed the fact that there are four inquiries. We have
:12:20. > :12:22.had a number of announcements. Is Sinn Fein prepared to co-operate
:12:23. > :12:25.with the multiplicity of inquiries which are happening - Westminster,
:12:26. > :12:28.Stormont, the Policing Board and David Cameron's judge-led inquiry?
:12:29. > :12:30.Will the party give evidence? Will you encourage republicans to
:12:31. > :12:35.give evidence? We will have to look at that. People will make their own
:12:36. > :12:42.judgements. We will be party to that. We will see how these
:12:43. > :12:45.processes unfold but the reality is there is an outstanding issue of a
:12:46. > :12:50.number of OTRs which was an agreement between two governments
:12:51. > :12:59.which is why we have said that Peter Robinson's announcement does not
:13:00. > :13:04.amount to a lot. What is very clear is that both governments made this
:13:05. > :13:08.announcement, a joint announcement so they came to the agreement. It
:13:09. > :13:15.was not Sinn Fein who conjured up the process. The process was reached
:13:16. > :13:20.between the British Government and the Irish Government and that is
:13:21. > :13:24.where we are. Would you envisage members of the
:13:25. > :13:29.Sinn Fein party attending the Select Committee? We will have to see how
:13:30. > :13:41.it goes. We have addressed some of those divisions in the past. Our MPs
:13:42. > :13:46.attend Westminster on a regular basis and we have spoken to a select
:13:47. > :13:54.group before. I would not rule it out. But people need to wait and see
:13:55. > :13:57.where we want to go with it. Alex Maskey, thank you.
:13:58. > :14:07.Much to discuss with our guests of the day, Liam Clarke and Joanne
:14:08. > :14:12.Stuart. What did you make with the comments from Theresa Villiers and
:14:13. > :14:15.the comments by Peter Robinson, we are on this? Theresa Villiers set
:14:16. > :14:16.out the position of the government formally but it does not change
:14:17. > :14:27.much. My understanding is that charge at the moment, that is what
:14:28. > :14:31.the letters are saying. They will now be checked to ensure that there
:14:32. > :14:35.is no mistakes that of John Downey where there was evidence and there
:14:36. > :14:38.will be a search for new evidence and if that is brought in then
:14:39. > :14:45.people can be questioned, charged and the old evidence used against
:14:46. > :14:50.them. Not coming from this from a political viewpoint but a wider
:14:51. > :14:53.civic society viewpoint, argue heartened that we now have four
:14:54. > :14:56.investigations looking at this, does that help us understand what
:14:57. > :15:01.happened and where the confusion came about, what precisely the
:15:02. > :15:06.position is on OTR or are in danger of simply making it even more
:15:07. > :15:10.impossible to work out what happened the more we examine and re-examine
:15:11. > :15:14.the facts? I think there is a bit of both the, Mark. No one is under any
:15:15. > :15:22.illusion as to the difficulties that are going to come up as we move
:15:23. > :15:27.through the peace process. And it is basically how we deal with them.
:15:28. > :15:31.Having these inquiries enables people independently to look into
:15:32. > :15:34.what happened and what the situation as an provide that clarity is very
:15:35. > :15:39.important, but from a civic society and business perspective, it is the
:15:40. > :15:44.length of time that these inquiries can take and also it is making sure
:15:45. > :15:49.that it does not derail any of the progress that we're making, June,
:15:50. > :15:56.particularly on the likes of the Haass talks. The Deputy First
:15:57. > :16:01.Minister and First Minister go to LA tomorrow to meet the Vice President
:16:02. > :16:04.of America. How do they achieve anything and fly the flag for
:16:05. > :16:11.Northern Ireland, forgive me, when they have these difficult domestic
:16:12. > :16:16.issues? It is about mood music going to America. Peter Robinson talked in
:16:17. > :16:22.terms of the Cold War with Sinn Fein. Diane Dodds would be the sole
:16:23. > :16:26.candidate? That is correct because there is a Cold War on but it is
:16:27. > :16:31.hard to talk in those terms and still have a productive relationship
:16:32. > :16:32.with government. I do not see the government breaking down but we are
:16:33. > :16:47.getting into the position where other, it is not healthy.
:16:48. > :16:49.An attempt to tighten Northern Ireland's human trafficking laws
:16:50. > :16:54.shouldn't be controversial. But a move to tie it to a ban on paying
:16:55. > :16:57.for sex at the same time is proving to be just that. Opponents say such
:16:58. > :17:00.a move would be counterproductive and not enforceable. And then
:17:01. > :17:04.there's the position of the PSNI which has moved from not supporting
:17:05. > :17:06.the proposal to not opposing it. So what's going on? Here's our
:17:07. > :17:12.political crrespondent, Gareth Gordon.
:17:13. > :17:16.This dementia in and exploitation Bill is making its way through the
:17:17. > :17:22.Assembly. It is not being an easy journey. -- Human Trafficking Bill.
:17:23. > :17:27.Most of the controversy has been quite by Clause six which makes it
:17:28. > :17:32.illegal to pay for sex. At one point even the police thought this was a
:17:33. > :17:34.bad idea until a senior officer appeared before the Stormont
:17:35. > :17:41.committee which is going through the Bill line by line. We're not opposed
:17:42. > :17:45.to cause sex and we have qualified support because of the consequences
:17:46. > :17:55.that may flow and we have talked about this at some length will stop
:17:56. > :18:00.we have looked at the vulnerability of the prostitutes. The supporters
:18:01. > :18:03.of the bill said this about turn by the police was a vital breakthrough
:18:04. > :18:09.but the opponents claim nothing has changed. When the PSNI comes out and
:18:10. > :18:13.says emphatically that this is not a good piece of legislation, they then
:18:14. > :18:17.get worried as to whether it was the place to actually get involved so
:18:18. > :18:23.all the police are doing as saying, listen, you make the laws and we
:18:24. > :18:26.will implement them, but in terms of are happy and do they think it will
:18:27. > :18:29.be effective? All of the discussions I have had suggested it is
:18:30. > :18:34.counter-productive and ultimately it is not necessary or doing a good
:18:35. > :18:40.service to the people be trying to help. They say they do not object to
:18:41. > :18:43.the inclusion of Kos sex but that does not represent an endorsement.
:18:44. > :18:45.They also talked about the relationship that sex workers would
:18:46. > :19:00.have with the PSNI. -- Clause six. relationship that sex workers would
:19:01. > :19:05.The sponsor of this bill says they require nothing of the kind. Most of
:19:06. > :19:09.my opponents and those opposed to this bill have kept pointing to the
:19:10. > :19:14.fact that the police are not supporting us. From last week that
:19:15. > :19:23.particular argument has been destroyed. It is support for Clause
:19:24. > :19:27.six. We can play about with semantics and say it is this, that
:19:28. > :19:31.and the other, at the end of the day they are supporting this clause and
:19:32. > :19:41.why should women be used as a commodity? In this enlightened age
:19:42. > :19:46.have we not moved far beyond that? Have you brought pressure on the
:19:47. > :19:53.police? How could we do that? The police have changed their mind. That
:19:54. > :19:58.is up to them. But absolutely, I welcome what they say, very much so,
:19:59. > :20:04.and it was unfortunate that some of the stuff that was coming out from
:20:05. > :20:09.the police before that was not good. I regret that but I accept that that
:20:10. > :20:12.was where they were on the issue and I am delighted they have changed
:20:13. > :20:18.their position. The Justice Minister opposes this new clause and regrets
:20:19. > :20:23.the way that prostitution has come to dominate the debate over the
:20:24. > :20:26.humans in Bell. By focusing so much on prostitution and we are taking
:20:27. > :20:31.away from some of the other issues of human traffic and, the forced
:20:32. > :20:36.labour and issues of domestic servitude and even organ harvesting,
:20:37. > :20:39.all those issues that are ignored because they focus on prostitution.
:20:40. > :20:45.Prostitution is not entirely dependent on human trafficking and
:20:46. > :20:48.it is not solely about prostitution. Lord Morrow says the bill is
:20:49. > :20:54.gathering support today by the but what will Sinn Fein do. Sinn Fein
:20:55. > :20:58.already backed a campaign that calls for an end to sex trafficking and
:20:59. > :21:01.prostitution and the South, so does that not inevitably mean the party
:21:02. > :21:04.will back a similar change and the North? It is one thing to endorse a
:21:05. > :21:23.campaign that has brought this courses, one which is paying for
:21:24. > :21:27.sexual actions. This does not take account of the impact this will have
:21:28. > :21:31.on people working in the sex trade and we think this will impact people
:21:32. > :21:36.who will then receive bad consequences. We do not know the
:21:37. > :21:42.scent of prostitution, we have not heard from those who are it will
:21:43. > :21:45.impact. The decision that Sinn Fein beaches will have a huge bearing as
:21:46. > :21:48.to whether this controversial Human Trafficking Bill will ever become
:21:49. > :21:51.legally binding. Gareth Gordon reporting.
:21:52. > :21:54.Now for a look back at the political week in 60 Seconds, and the
:21:55. > :22:03.Secretary of State was at the centre of not just the On the Runs
:22:04. > :22:06.controversy. Here's Mark Devenport. The Secretary of State said a mental
:22:07. > :22:09.health charity would not be compensated for money spent on its
:22:10. > :22:15.Hillsborough cottage shop. They always knew the terms that they were
:22:16. > :22:20.allowed to go with. OTR has remained on the agenda at
:22:21. > :22:27.the DUP took comfort from a speech by Italy's abilities. They have a
:22:28. > :22:31.beating docket in their pocket and that changes the game considerably.
:22:32. > :22:34.Those On the Runs tonight have squeaky bottoms because they know
:22:35. > :22:39.they cannot count on those letters any more, we are coming after you.
:22:40. > :22:44.President Clinton returns and asked us to get the job done. You have
:22:45. > :22:52.inspired the world and you must finish this.
:22:53. > :22:57.Scowling over a scarf at City Hall. Is it appropriate for a member to be
:22:58. > :23:03.waning a football scarf? I ordered you to remain seated. You are
:23:04. > :23:05.choosing to defy the ruling of the chair!
:23:06. > :23:10.Mark Devenport reporting. Let's have a few final thoughts from Joanne
:23:11. > :23:13.Stuart and Liam Clarke. It was International Women's Day
:23:14. > :23:16.yesterday and it remains a challenge to get women engaged in politics and
:23:17. > :23:19.taking up their seats in the boardroom. Are things improving?
:23:20. > :23:22.They are getting better but they have not gone far enough. We still
:23:23. > :23:24.have issues and the private sector and the public sector and nearly 50%
:23:25. > :24:08.of women are