:37:23. > :37:27.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. A row
:37:27. > :37:31.over flags wreaks havoc on the streets in weeks scarred by
:37:31. > :37:35.demonstrations and death threats. The Alliance parties in the eye of
:37:35. > :37:39.the storm but there are also divisions within the Ulster
:37:39. > :37:45.Unionists. I'll be asking the party leaders if they can deal with the
:37:45. > :37:49.fall-out from flags. As Hilary drops in to beat a fund farewell to
:37:49. > :37:53.all friends. It is always a pleasure to be with
:37:53. > :38:03.Peter and Martin and applaud their leadership which has been
:38:03. > :38:09.
:38:09. > :38:14.extraordinary and essential. . It has been a weekend dominated
:38:15. > :38:19.by tensions over flying the flag at city Hall. Writers took to the
:38:19. > :38:23.streets over Belfast on Friday night. On Saturday thousands
:38:23. > :38:27.gathered for a peaceful protest although trouble flared elsewhere
:38:27. > :38:32.afterwards. It is set to dominate the agenda at Stormont tomorrow so
:38:33. > :38:37.is there a possibility of achieving a compromise to satisfy all sides?
:38:37. > :38:41.I am joined by the leaders of the Ulster Unionist Party and the
:38:42. > :38:45.Alliance Party. A very difficult week for you and
:38:45. > :38:50.fellow members of the Alliance Party. Looking back on it, you have
:38:50. > :38:53.no regrets about how you handle the situation Ormond tonight at city
:38:53. > :38:57.Hall? It has also been a difficult week
:38:57. > :39:02.for people who run businesses decide our offices, for innocent
:39:02. > :39:10.children caught up in it, police officers and their families. Let us
:39:10. > :39:18.not forget the others as well. We have had this policy for 10 years.
:39:18. > :39:22.We stuck to it. It is a policy supported by other councils. It is
:39:22. > :39:30.a fair proportion that way to recognise the development of
:39:30. > :39:35.Northern Ireland in wider society. The reason the Alliance Party finds
:39:35. > :39:40.itself in the eye of the storm is because people disagree with this.
:39:40. > :39:44.That is why I think the Unionists who distributed defamatory leaflets
:39:44. > :39:49.and encourage people onto the streets, need to think about the
:39:49. > :39:56.problems they have caused in that towns across Belfast -- across
:39:56. > :40:00.Northern Ireland. Why is it such an issue as far as
:40:00. > :40:04.Belfast city Hall is concerned, when designated days are the case
:40:04. > :40:09.at parliament buildings and other councils, such as Armagh and
:40:09. > :40:14.Lisburn? It is part of a process. The people
:40:14. > :40:19.who took to the streets thing they are losers. I did not think it was
:40:19. > :40:23.helpful to described the decision on Monday night as a clear victory
:40:23. > :40:28.for the Alliance Party. That is not the language of a shared future.
:40:28. > :40:32.For a shared future the victory must be for everybody. If there is
:40:32. > :40:39.a victory people have lost. The people who came out on the streets
:40:39. > :40:43.think they have been lost. People were promised a peace dividend and
:40:43. > :40:47.a economic future and instead they got a double dip recession. They
:40:47. > :40:52.were promised that their Britishness would be ring fastest
:40:52. > :40:56.but they find it being chipped away at time and time again.
:40:56. > :41:02.With respect, you tell burnt that their Britishness is being chipped
:41:02. > :41:11.away at. How is your Britishness being chipped away at?
:41:11. > :41:17.Because the flag is being taken down. Because parks are being
:41:17. > :41:21.renamed. A bus full of workmen., Catholics were told to go home and
:41:21. > :41:24.Protestants were butchered. There is a memorial to them which has
:41:24. > :41:28.been desecrated with the words IRA on top.
:41:28. > :41:32.As a lot of people from the nationalist community had
:41:32. > :41:37.criticised that but there is nothing unique about that or
:41:37. > :41:42.nothing new about that. It has been an issue for many years.
:41:42. > :41:44.That is why there is political failure. As of tomorrow we must be
:41:44. > :41:49.honest with ourselves and the electorate and say that there is a
:41:49. > :41:54.lot we have not delivered on. Dealing with the past is a key
:41:54. > :41:59.issue. It could be the Achilles heel of the peace process. We have
:41:59. > :42:03.to be honest and say we will not deliver it next week, next month or
:42:03. > :42:08.during the mandate of this Assembly. We need to look at the long-term
:42:08. > :42:15.objectives, such as a single education system. It is not a
:42:15. > :42:20.threat to the Catholic sector. What do you say to them what the
:42:20. > :42:24.leaders of the loyalist community saved when they believe their
:42:24. > :42:28.Britishness has been diminished by what happened on Monday night?
:42:28. > :42:36.I think we need to get away from discussing how many days a flag
:42:36. > :42:39.flies on Belfast city Hall. If there was an issue we are a victory
:42:39. > :42:43.for the Alliance Party on Monday night it was because we put forward
:42:43. > :42:49.a compromise and an alternative to the nationalists recommendation of
:42:49. > :42:54.no flight whatsoever. I believe by giving that compromise it gave the
:42:54. > :42:59.opportunity for people to accept it, just as Unionists have accepted it
:42:59. > :43:03.in other counties. We need to stop feeding the notion that taking the
:43:03. > :43:07.flak damage chipping away it British identity. We have an
:43:07. > :43:12.agreement since 1998 which were supported by the overwhelming
:43:12. > :43:17.majority of people. It has brought in the majority people who
:43:17. > :43:23.disagreed with it. We recognise this is a divided society. There
:43:23. > :43:27.are significant differences between our communities and we need to do a
:43:27. > :43:32.lot more about building a shared future. When I see the antics of
:43:32. > :43:35.some of his councillors, I'm not sure they believe in a shared
:43:35. > :43:41.future. Where are we on the broader shared
:43:41. > :43:46.future issue? We are supposed to be receiving a document soon from the
:43:46. > :43:52.First Minister and Deputy firm Minister soon. According to Naomi
:43:52. > :43:59.long, the events of the last week have and it does back several years.
:43:59. > :44:04.We all look forward to the publisher of the intentions -- the
:44:04. > :44:10.publication of the document of intentions. It will take a long
:44:10. > :44:15.time. The toxic legacy of the Troubles, the sectarianism of, is
:44:15. > :44:21.not getting any better. We need to be honest and say we have a long
:44:21. > :44:25.way to go. Hillary Clinton is here this week and we have been
:44:25. > :44:29.emphasising how far we have come since she came here with Bill
:44:29. > :44:37.Clinton. That is true but we have gone nowhere in tackling things
:44:37. > :44:43.like child poverty, multiple deprivation and child -- and
:44:43. > :44:48.sectarianism. To me not have to take a point here and give a lead
:44:48. > :44:52.as a democratically-elected politicians and say to people who
:44:52. > :44:56.are protesting, this was a democratic vote.
:44:56. > :45:00.The councillors were elected to take this decision and that is how
:45:00. > :45:06.they voted. We must respect that decision.
:45:06. > :45:11.This is a time for strategy not knee-jerk reaction. What we have
:45:11. > :45:19.seen on the streets was a prawn and not brains.
:45:19. > :45:23.If this is such a huge issue, why is it that during the public
:45:23. > :45:29.consultation there were took public meetings, on Thursday 13th
:45:29. > :45:33.September, or one in the afternoon and evening. Three people turned up.
:45:33. > :45:37.Two in the afternoon and one in the evening. Have come only three
:45:37. > :45:42.people turned up to talk about this important issue and suddenly we see
:45:42. > :45:48.thousands on the street? Do you know how many people turn up
:45:48. > :45:53.for public consultations on cohesion at? Less than one per cent
:45:54. > :45:58.of the population. A lot more than three.
:45:58. > :46:01.How do you deal with the disparity between the number of people
:46:01. > :46:06.turning up to a public consultation and the number at appearing on the
:46:06. > :46:11.streets to demonstrate? I have already referred to the
:46:11. > :46:17.inflammatory leaflets which have led to a death threat. That is in
:46:17. > :46:23.reality of the campaign. If we are going to talk about cohesion,
:46:23. > :46:27.sharing and integration, there were 180 detailed considered responses
:46:27. > :46:32.from organisations across the Community, virtually all of which
:46:32. > :46:39.pans the draft which came in and called for a different strategy.
:46:39. > :46:43.The public is engaged. I feel the need to ask about that
:46:43. > :46:53.leaflet. Was it a mistake for the Ulster Unionist Party to support
:46:53. > :46:58.the publication of 40,000 leaflets? We urged people to demonstrate in a
:46:58. > :47:02.respectful manner. Which clearly has not happened.
:47:02. > :47:06.The last line of the leaflet suggests you know what the reaction
:47:06. > :47:14.is going to be. If you have to print please be respectful, you
:47:14. > :47:22.know what the outcome might be. I do not micro manage. We have 98
:47:22. > :47:26.councillors. I do not micro manager them. We reaffirmed our support for
:47:26. > :47:32.the council group in Belfast city Council in opposing the change to
:47:32. > :47:35.flying the flag every day. Do not mess with people's identity. When
:47:35. > :47:40.Republicans did not like the way their identity was abuse, thousands
:47:40. > :47:45.of people died. Here is messing with people's
:47:45. > :47:50.identity? People have a right to their identity. The city Council
:47:50. > :47:54.took a democratic, lawful, compromise decision.
:47:54. > :47:58.People see it in a continuous process.
:47:58. > :48:04.That is because you inflamed that due.
:48:04. > :48:06.I do not believe I am inflaming anything. You have to reflect way
:48:07. > :48:10.you are and the views of people whether they are right or
:48:10. > :48:14.perceptions. You must acknowledge them.
:48:14. > :48:19.You can give leadership and Countdown concerns.
:48:19. > :48:22.I edged people not take to the streets yesterday.
:48:22. > :48:27.But you have also acknowledge that you feel their Britishness is being
:48:27. > :48:31.chipped away. They want someone to reflect that
:48:31. > :48:34.perception. People feel disenfranchised and are looking for
:48:34. > :48:43.leadership. Let me ask you about that Executive
:48:43. > :48:46.before we bring in our commentators. As we understand it, three Ulster
:48:46. > :48:56.Unionist Belfast city councillors said that if Basil McCrae, who
:48:56. > :48:57.
:48:57. > :49:06.spoke publicly in support of the flak, -- in support of removing the
:49:06. > :49:11.flak, wanted him removed. We have a process in play.
:49:11. > :49:17.Which means of? We have a process in play. These
:49:17. > :49:22.issues are internal. If Basil says he supports the position of the
:49:22. > :49:26.Alliance Party. That is he was speaking. I speak as part of the
:49:26. > :49:30.Ulster Unionist Party. And you do not have a broad church
:49:30. > :49:36.within the party? He cannot express his you if it does not agree with
:49:36. > :49:42.the view of the leadership? I have to react to what the three
:49:42. > :49:47.Belfast councillors have asked me. He you could say no.
:49:47. > :49:52.Would it suit you very well if Basil was to lock sticks and leave
:49:52. > :49:56.the party? Basil is a very talented politician.
:49:56. > :49:59.But he does not often agree with what you say which does not help
:49:59. > :50:05.you? I do not think that is entirely
:50:05. > :50:10.true. Let us bring in our commentators.
:50:10. > :50:15.They have worked in the field of community relations for many years.
:50:15. > :50:21.Where are we at the moment in terms of community relations?
:50:21. > :50:26.I think it is pretty horrific. It is 15 years since the agreement in
:50:26. > :50:30.which I understood week signed up to multiple identities under
:50:30. > :50:36.British sovereignty at the moment. It seems it is OK to threaten and
:50:36. > :50:42.bomb people, or still people think it is OK to threaten and on people,
:50:42. > :50:47.in a context of voting for arrangements instalment. That is a
:50:47. > :50:52.low level to be at 15 years after agreement. I do not know if people
:50:52. > :50:57.are saying they did not know this, why people 15 years after the
:50:57. > :51:02.agreement they do not know what they signed up to, there needs to
:51:02. > :51:07.be a clear understanding. This is a United Kingdom and a shared society
:51:07. > :51:12.and the task at hand here is to actually built that shared society
:51:12. > :51:16.in a way that is respect for of everybody. That is the peace
:51:16. > :51:21.process. The fact we are still discussing this strikes me as
:51:21. > :51:25.bizarre and horrifying. There are people whose lives are at risk
:51:25. > :51:31.behind this now. You have taken an academic interest
:51:31. > :51:36.in this, what is your assessment of this predicament?
:51:36. > :51:41.It has been a difficult week but no one said it would be easy. It is at
:51:41. > :51:45.moments like this that you look for leadership. You do see those sparks
:51:45. > :51:50.of leadership, for instance when Martin McGuinness and Peter
:51:50. > :51:55.Robinson are in Washington, we hear speeches I would like to hear back
:51:55. > :52:03.here, where they seek -- a say things about supporting each other
:52:03. > :52:09.over these difficulties. To hear that it sounds great but it has to
:52:09. > :52:14.be put into action. I do think when I hear things like beer and failure
:52:14. > :52:18.and friction, it can set us backwards and you do not react to
:52:18. > :52:22.it when you are in a position of political leadership. Leadership
:52:22. > :52:26.means going ahead each time and taking a risk each time to bring
:52:26. > :52:32.your people to way you want them to be. This past week has been
:52:32. > :52:35.disappointing from that point of view. The agreements did I say it
:52:35. > :52:42.recognise our Britishness and Darryl Irishness. You could be both
:52:42. > :52:46.or neither or either. When we sat down to discuss the flags issue in
:52:46. > :52:53.that first Assembly, there were all kinds of decisions about the number
:52:53. > :53:02.of flights. I do think at that time the decision was that this was at
:53:02. > :53:07.the accommodation. Nobody actually seem to understand the decision. It
:53:07. > :53:10.was accepted that compromise is sometimes a strength, not a
:53:10. > :53:15.weakness. A final comment from the two
:53:15. > :53:20.politicians who have joined us this morning. What do you think can be
:53:20. > :53:25.done tomorrow at Stormont to try to fix this?
:53:25. > :53:30.Hillary Clinton said it on Friday and Monica has said it today.
:53:30. > :53:34.Compromise is a strength not a weakness. The motion we tabled was
:53:34. > :53:38.attempting to put something we could all unite around in support
:53:38. > :53:43.of democratic politics and those who had suffered. We were committed
:53:43. > :53:49.to moving forward to debt -- together.
:53:49. > :53:54.We do you agree with that? I came into politics to talk about
:53:54. > :53:58.education, health and housing. Identity is an important issue and
:53:58. > :54:02.we need to say something you will put everyone at ease. Everybody
:54:02. > :54:07.needs to be content in their own skin and with everybody else been
:54:07. > :54:16.content in their own skin. We will see what happens tomorrow
:54:17. > :54:22.at Stormont. Find you for joining us this morning.
:54:22. > :54:27.She was welcomes back with open arms and there is no surprise in
:54:27. > :54:34.that. Hillary Clinton stopped by on Friday. She has been a frequent
:54:34. > :54:44.visitor since she first came here in the 1990s with her husband, Bill.
:54:44. > :55:08.
:55:09. > :55:13.The President has just stepped onto Working with the women of Northern
:55:13. > :55:23.Ireland has been one of the greatest privileges of my lifetime.
:55:23. > :55:46.
:55:46. > :55:51.I will always be there as a friend Just a reminder of some of her
:55:52. > :55:57.visits to Northern Ireland in the past. You brushed past me at one
:55:57. > :56:00.point on Friday just as Hillary Clinton was arriving. You met her
:56:00. > :56:06.privately. What did she say about the Northern Ireland she has come
:56:06. > :56:11.to know and love and which is not out of the woods yet?
:56:11. > :56:15.She was very upbeat. She is used to travelling in conflicted societies
:56:15. > :56:19.around the world. She was focusing on the bigger picture and the way
:56:19. > :56:27.forward. It was lovely to hear her stake that she was going to stay
:56:27. > :56:31.with us in this project. -- to hear her say. She was wonderfully
:56:31. > :56:35.sympathetic to the people she met. She met the family of the
:56:35. > :56:40.disappeared. She knew there were well and personally. That is the
:56:40. > :56:43.kind of woman she is and it is incredible in a country of one. 7
:56:43. > :56:49.million people that this is her 7th visit.
:56:49. > :56:52.A lot of people would agree with that. We may need help navigating
:56:52. > :56:57.the stormy waters we have been discussing.
:56:57. > :57:03.The difficulty is that all the progress has been made in context
:57:03. > :57:07.of support from outside. Hillary Clinton has been one of our
:57:07. > :57:10.big supporters. One and the sad truth is that every time we are
:57:10. > :57:16.left in a room by ourselves we do not make the progress we do with
:57:16. > :57:19.the support of the outside world. If we need that it is good to have
:57:19. > :57:26.people who know the situation like Hillary Clinton. I do not know if
:57:26. > :57:29.we can rely on that but it is a massive support.
:57:29. > :57:35.When there is no external presence it does seem that the go back into
:57:35. > :57:39.our bonkers. We seem to prefer to concede to
:57:39. > :57:43.eight international coalition, or rather than it to face each other.
:57:43. > :57:48.We have not got the politics which gives us that yet.
:57:48. > :57:53.Do you think she will will run for the White House in 2016?
:57:53. > :57:58.She did not give anyone an answer to that. Can you imagine how tired
:57:58. > :58:02.she was be at the moment? She wants to take time out and reflect. Who
:58:02. > :58:07.would have thought she would have run for the Senate after being
:58:07. > :58:14.First Lady? She did and one and came back. She made a great speech
:58:14. > :58:16.in Denver in defeat. It is a real sign of leadership. The Women Of
:58:16. > :58:20.Northern Ireland said to her yesterday that they would be out
:58:20. > :58:25.with her if she did decide to run because they do hold her in such
:58:25. > :58:35.high esteem. Thank you very much indeed. Let us
:58:35. > :58:38.
:58:38. > :58:45.pause for a moment and reflect on M L Hayes who missed question-time
:58:45. > :58:50.but a telling off but the Speaker was not prepared to listen.
:58:50. > :58:55.We sometimes have confession time and I do allow that for some
:58:55. > :59:02.reasons. People can conquer forward and confess their sins.
:59:02. > :59:05.Councillors in Belfast voted to stop flying the Union flag all year
:59:05. > :59:07.round. Divisive, destructive and
:59:07. > :59:13.disrespectful. An Alliance Party office was
:59:13. > :59:19.attacked, so too were the homes of two councillors and a death threat
:59:19. > :59:24.for a leading representative. Plans to build a cross border bridge were
:59:24. > :59:28.questioned by some Unionists but campaigners told them to back off.
:59:28. > :59:34.There is scaremongering within the T U P about this project and the
:59:34. > :59:39.need to stop scaremongering. And motorists got a boost as the
:59:39. > :59:45.Chancellor scrapped a 3p a fuel duty increase.
:59:45. > :59:50.Stephen Walker with the week in 60 seconds. A final thought from
:59:50. > :59:56.Duncan. Can we change the mood tomorrow?
:59:56. > :00:00.Politicians instalment must set the agenda tomorrow. -- politicians