11/03/2012

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:01:31. > :01:35.Three weeks to find a new leader. The race is on for someone to take

:01:35. > :01:45.the Ulster Unionist Party forward. Is that even possible? We will ask

:01:45. > :01:45.

:01:45. > :31:49.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1803 seconds

:31:49. > :31:52.Hello and welcome it to Sunday politics. 18 months ago he was

:31:52. > :31:55.hailed as the leader that we change the fortunes of the Ulster

:31:55. > :32:03.Unionists. On Thursday night he walked away from the job leaving

:32:03. > :32:09.the party in turmoil. My openness and integrity is what has made me

:32:09. > :32:14.resign as the leader of the Ulster Unionists. What does the future

:32:14. > :32:18.hold? Can the decline be altered to? Also on the programme. A year

:32:18. > :32:22.on since the general election in the Republic, a Sinn Fein winning

:32:22. > :32:30.the battle of the opposition parties. And fancy dress, feathers

:32:30. > :32:35.and football, it is all in the political week in 60 seconds.

:32:35. > :32:38.With me for the next 20 minutes, Professor Rick Wilford from Queen's

:32:38. > :32:42.University and our political correspondent Martina Purdy. The

:32:42. > :32:49.sound a bit like a broken record asking what is next for the Ulster

:32:49. > :32:53.Unionists? Absolutely. Martina was just saying that 18 months is

:32:54. > :32:59.giving up the job just after one year and a half is a sign of just

:32:59. > :33:06.how in disarray the party is. Three weeks to get this resolved and get

:33:06. > :33:09.a new leader, this is a big ask. There four contenders. I suspect

:33:09. > :33:15.that the front runner is Danny Kennedy and I suspect he will win

:33:15. > :33:21.if he puts his hat in the rain. He needs to address the decline. This

:33:21. > :33:31.is a party coming from way behind the others. It is probably the most

:33:31. > :33:31.

:33:31. > :33:37.difficult job in politics? Yes. It is like... Tom Elliot give the

:33:37. > :33:42.reason for leaving is that he felt he did not have support. 2012 has

:33:42. > :33:49.been unkind, they have lost a leader and lost one MLA in terms of

:33:49. > :33:54.David McNarry. He put himself out of the job but because there was no

:33:54. > :33:57.real sense he could have continued. Just 10 days ago it looked as if

:33:57. > :34:01.Tom Elliott would remain as leader unopposed. Thanks to his

:34:01. > :34:06.resignation, potential candidates have a very short time to declare

:34:06. > :34:12.their hand and campaign to become the new leader. So who are the

:34:12. > :34:18.possible runners? Danny Kennedy, an Orangeman and in favour of closer

:34:18. > :34:21.links with the DUP. This is the Liberal John McCallister. He is in

:34:21. > :34:27.the camp that wants to see the party moved into an opposition role

:34:27. > :34:33.at Stormont. Then there is Basil McCrea. Will he be prepared to

:34:33. > :34:37.enter the contest again? Or Mike Nesbitt. It is not clear which can

:34:37. > :34:43.he falls into, but does he have the union has pedigree to take the top

:34:43. > :34:48.spot in the very traditional party? The real question is if any of --

:34:48. > :34:51.any of them can bring back happier times? Basil McCrea is out of the

:34:51. > :34:57.country, but none of the other candidates wanted to come on the

:34:57. > :35:05.country. I am joined by MEP Jim Nicholson and party treasurer Mark

:35:05. > :35:11.Cosgrove. When did you find out Tom Elliott was resigning? I found out

:35:11. > :35:21.when my son called me to ask if I knew the news. My other son

:35:21. > :35:26.actually heard it before I heard it. Are you out of the look in your own

:35:26. > :35:31.party? And no I do not think so. Tom made this decision himself, it

:35:31. > :35:37.was a personal decision. I can understand why he felt he did not

:35:37. > :35:43.have the support and that it was time for him to move on. I think it

:35:43. > :35:46.was an honourable decision. I have the highest regard and respect for

:35:46. > :35:54.him and will continue to have that and look forward to working with

:35:54. > :36:01.him in years to come. Were you aware of the lies that were been

:36:01. > :36:06.told to? He made his position very clear and he has given the reason

:36:06. > :36:12.why he moved on and clearly, there must have been a problem with the

:36:12. > :36:17.Assembly grip in the party. I was at the Assembly meeting on Monday

:36:17. > :36:25.morning and I this in Stormont until lunchtime, where I had other

:36:25. > :36:30.meetings with colleagues. I did not see him bad-tempered at all. I was

:36:30. > :36:34.not there for all that, because I had to go to another committee

:36:34. > :36:39.meeting of which Tom was the chairman. I spoke to him two or

:36:39. > :36:45.three times and he never said anything. He clearly made his mind

:36:45. > :36:50.up later in the week. He did not mention it to me. If you are going

:36:51. > :36:54.to do these things, if you make it known, people will try to persuade

:36:54. > :36:59.you against it. He had probably made his own personal mind up and

:37:00. > :37:03.decided to do it in the way which she did, and I respect that.

:37:03. > :37:06.are supposed to organise people and keep them disciplined. It would

:37:06. > :37:11.appear there are some people have in your party who are be on

:37:11. > :37:16.discipline? I do not accept the analysis of the political

:37:16. > :37:21.commentators that we are coming from a long way behind. The Ulster

:37:21. > :37:25.Unionist Party as recently as May achieved over 100,000 votes and we

:37:25. > :37:31.have 116 elected representatives. If there are problems with one or

:37:31. > :37:37.two of them, so be it. But they have got rid of your leader after

:37:37. > :37:41.18 months. Tom has made it clear that they were not the only reasons.

:37:41. > :37:49.He made his decision on the basis of other factors as well as

:37:49. > :37:54.internal factors. I do not think the narrative that the party is in

:37:54. > :37:59.great turmoil has stacked up on the ground. We are represented on 26

:38:00. > :38:02.councils, we have a good geographical spread of Assembly

:38:02. > :38:08.members and there are representatives out there doing a

:38:08. > :38:14.good job. When did you find out Tom Elliott was going? About one power

:38:14. > :38:21.before the press release went out. What do you know about the lies

:38:21. > :38:30.that he is talking about? That is what he is alleging. I am not aware

:38:30. > :38:37.of any of that at. The is he wrong? Was a I am not saying he is wrong.

:38:37. > :38:43.I am here to say that because one or two people have a difficulty, I

:38:43. > :38:47.do not accept that analysis. 116 elected representatives do not fall

:38:47. > :38:50.or rise on the back of a few individuals who may be

:38:50. > :38:55.undisciplined. This is a broad party with a broad range of support

:38:55. > :39:00.in the community. That has not been represented properly in the media

:39:00. > :39:07.reports at to today and including today. We have heard about two

:39:07. > :39:14.different camps, one in favour of been in opposition and the other in

:39:14. > :39:18.favour of union his genius -- unity. What can to fall into? I do not

:39:18. > :39:22.fall into any of them. The system in Stormont at the minute does not

:39:22. > :39:27.allow for opposition. I believe that would be good for Northern

:39:27. > :39:32.Ireland to have proper opposition, because I see it in Belgium for

:39:32. > :39:36.example, where the took almost two years to get a government. The vote

:39:36. > :39:39.and that the same parties back into power again. Opposition would be

:39:39. > :39:45.good, but the system is not therefore it and until the system

:39:45. > :39:49.is in place I do not think we can. We have to play our full role and

:39:49. > :39:54.do what I do in Europe, act responsibly and work in the

:39:54. > :39:59.interests of everyone in Northern Ireland. There is a lot of

:39:59. > :40:07.discussion about the European elections coming up in 2014. We

:40:07. > :40:13.used stand again? That is a very direct question. I am mayor over 20

:40:13. > :40:17.years as a MEP and I can claim to do my job extremely well and I am

:40:17. > :40:27.enjoying it even more now than I did 20 years ago. If that answers

:40:27. > :40:28.

:40:28. > :40:35.your question, as long as I am enjoying the job hunt and maybe

:40:35. > :40:40.other events may change my mind. I am in good health and I am enjoying

:40:40. > :40:45.the job so I am up for it again. terms of this leadership race,

:40:45. > :40:49.three weeks to go, one week to will the nomination papers going, were

:40:49. > :40:53.any of the candidates keen to see it delayed? Non art but in

:40:53. > :40:58.particular. There was a feeling it should be delayed, but the rules of

:40:58. > :41:02.the party are clear. Every year, the leader has to stand for re-

:41:02. > :41:06.election and normally that is unopposed. The motions for such a

:41:06. > :41:13.contest were in place and there is no reason why the contest should

:41:13. > :41:19.not take place on 31st March. are definitely going hates?

:41:19. > :41:25.absolutely. Mark does not agree with the analysis that the party is

:41:25. > :41:32.in turmoil. I respect the view, but if you go back a decade, their vote

:41:32. > :41:37.has more than halved. They have no MPs. They are doing reasonably well

:41:37. > :41:45.at local council level, but there are many former unionists in who

:41:45. > :41:51.left the camp or sit on their fence. This is a party in Serial long-term

:41:51. > :41:54.decline and to arrest that decline, they need someone who can bridge at

:41:54. > :42:02.the very different factions that exist in the party which looks a

:42:02. > :42:08.lot more difficult. It has been a factor lies party and it is divided

:42:08. > :42:12.on the issue of whether they should be a formal opposition. There

:42:12. > :42:17.cannot be a formal opposition unless the legislation is changed.

:42:17. > :42:21.That requires the government in London to provide for that. We went

:42:21. > :42:25.to the people in the Assembly election campaign with that in our

:42:25. > :42:28.manifesto that we would try to achieve a formal opposition by the

:42:28. > :42:36.time the next Assembly cut elections came around. People are

:42:36. > :42:40.voting with their feet. Unionism and all of Northern Ireland are

:42:40. > :42:44.seen declining votes and until we have a formal government in

:42:44. > :42:52.opposition, it is difficult to persuade people that their vote

:42:52. > :42:57.makes a difference. I do not think there are different camps, the

:42:57. > :43:01.issue is that we need to persuade colleagues in other parties to the

:43:02. > :43:05.fact that we need to have a better way of moving in the Province

:43:05. > :43:10.forward. We need to move from peace process to delivery process. Only

:43:10. > :43:16.then will we get the jobs and everything else that we need.

:43:16. > :43:22.of the candidates, who would you put your money on? Based on

:43:22. > :43:26.previous experience and looking and observing that the party, I think

:43:26. > :43:33.it Danny Kennedy entered the race he would be the favourite. He is

:43:33. > :43:38.from the Orange Order, he is rural, he is a minister, he has been

:43:38. > :43:45.around a long time. He is everyone's friend. Whether he can

:43:45. > :43:52.withstand the pressures and unite both sides, because as a minister

:43:52. > :43:57.he is saying as being in the Executive and working with the DUP.

:43:57. > :44:01.There is talk of John McCallister and I would not rule him out. He is

:44:01. > :44:07.a farmer, liberal but seen as traditionalist. The party would

:44:07. > :44:13.feel safe with him. Mike Nesbitt and Basil McCrea are the wild cards.

:44:13. > :44:18.Would you run yourself to M? It is a great honour that people think

:44:18. > :44:23.you should run for it, but I am the wrong vintage to be running for

:44:23. > :44:31.leadership of the party. Who were due back? I will make my mind up in

:44:31. > :44:34.the process of time. I would remind you that I have come through quite

:44:34. > :44:40.a lot of contests for leadership and I remembered the time when

:44:40. > :44:44.David Trimble became leader, he was not the favourite, and he won. I

:44:44. > :44:50.think the races there and let us see how the candidates perform. Let

:44:50. > :44:55.us see what their policies are. This is what I would want to see

:44:55. > :45:01.and to see how they can put forward the proposal. There is no doubt. We

:45:01. > :45:06.have got to end the internal... Some people individually thinking

:45:06. > :45:11.they're bigger than the party. I have gone down this road a long

:45:11. > :45:21.time. Martina knows she cannot call me for information, because she

:45:21. > :45:23.

:45:23. > :45:27.will not get it. Thank you it has been one year since the Republic's

:45:27. > :45:29.general election and Sinn Fein added 10 seats to the fore it

:45:30. > :45:35.previously held. Over the last 12 months, the party

:45:35. > :45:41.has come to be seen by many as the real opposition party in Leinster

:45:41. > :45:45.House. We have this report from Dublin. One year in office and a

:45:45. > :45:51.chance to outlined progress and promises made. To borrow a phrase,

:45:51. > :45:58.a lot don and a lot more to do. Sitting across from the Government

:45:58. > :46:02.is a party very much focused on its own performance. A recent poll

:46:02. > :46:05.macro suggest that Sinn Fein is now the second most popular party in

:46:05. > :46:09.the Republic and could an unexpected fractious debate leading

:46:09. > :46:17.up to the fiscal treaty referendum push the party further into the

:46:17. > :46:22.big-time? We said clearly that we wanted to represent an effective

:46:22. > :46:31.way middle and low-income earners and we have come into the Dail and

:46:31. > :46:39.that is what we are doing. The old guard have been supplanted by a new

:46:39. > :46:45.TD's. They are much better than media and Dail performers. Gerry

:46:45. > :46:50.Adams has more symbolic than actual value in the Dail, but there has

:46:50. > :46:55.been a quantum leap for the party in terms of profile and ability.

:46:55. > :47:00.you do not have to dole out the pain, surely it is a good time to

:47:00. > :47:06.be in opposition? People in the opposition benches somehow have it

:47:06. > :47:12.easy, but this is wrong. You are looking at a huge government

:47:12. > :47:15.majority in the Dail. Political opinion polls are not have a good

:47:15. > :47:21.indicator. What is fuelling the rise of Sinn Fein and what are the

:47:21. > :47:26.weak points that is causing their showing in the polls to drop? Will

:47:26. > :47:34.have the politics of austerity. Sinn Fein cannot capitalise on that,

:47:34. > :47:41.they cannot capitalise on anything. They are a left-wing party, but

:47:41. > :47:50.they still do not do well in Dublin. Their strength is that they have a

:47:50. > :47:55.lot of energetic, young it TD's and activists who are focused in the

:47:55. > :48:05.way that that Labour had never been focus. There has been a speed bump

:48:05. > :48:08.

:48:08. > :48:14.of late and a chance for writers... Perhaps she could carry out an

:48:14. > :48:23.inquiry into your own party. this issue cos any red faces in the

:48:23. > :48:28.Sinn Fein party? It will not happen again. Other parties to have been

:48:28. > :48:34.up to their neck in scandals are making a song and dance about this

:48:35. > :48:38.has raised a question in the public mind. What about the candidacy of

:48:38. > :48:45.Martin McGuinness in the presidential election? Has it

:48:45. > :48:49.lanced the boil of the party's links to its past? There was a

:48:49. > :48:55.ceiling on Sinn Fein support of about 10%. That ceiling appears to

:48:56. > :49:01.be broken and I think partly that has got to do with the conversation

:49:01. > :49:05.that the party engaged in about its past during the presidential

:49:05. > :49:10.election. It is also because the old political metaphor it is like a

:49:10. > :49:17.shirt with the stain on it, you keep watching it and eventually it

:49:17. > :49:21.will fade. For a lot of people, the memory of the conflict that the IRA

:49:21. > :49:29.and Sinn Fein were involved in is like a stain on a shirt, but as

:49:29. > :49:32.time goes on, that stain will fade. Time for our 62nd review and a

:49:32. > :49:42.Stephen Walker reports, the Ulster Unionist Party was not the only

:49:42. > :49:42.

:49:42. > :49:47.show in town this week. The week he. With Rory McIlroy becoming world No.

:49:47. > :49:52.1, but some felt he needed more help. What an ambassador. He did it

:49:52. > :49:58.with the support of his father, his mother, his girlfriend was there,

:49:58. > :50:03.but we were not. From one game to another, Martin McGuinness went to

:50:03. > :50:10.Windsor Park and got a royal welcome from the the Blues. We

:50:10. > :50:15.learnt more about Willie McRae's chatted. I remember a fancy dress

:50:16. > :50:21.competition and I remember I was dressed as a little sailor. Others

:50:21. > :50:25.put on a smile for the House of Commons. They are is an onus on us

:50:25. > :50:31.to go about this place with the demeanour of Aer Lingus cabin crew,

:50:31. > :50:41.smiling at everything we meet. A Owen Paterson ruffled a few

:50:41. > :50:46.

:50:46. > :50:50.feathers. A I went to the dinner... Is secretary of state might need

:50:50. > :50:56.some help with that Irish accent. St Patrick's Day is coming up, a

:50:56. > :51:01.mass exodus from Stormont? politicians will be going to

:51:01. > :51:08.Washington, led by the First and Deputy First ministers. They will

:51:08. > :51:14.be a ceremony in the White House. It is not what it was. The

:51:14. > :51:21.journalists are not going, because the story is not there. It is about

:51:21. > :51:24.promoting trade, investment and you will see Peter Robinson and Martin

:51:24. > :51:30.McGuinness may catch up with Basil McCrea who is trying to drum up