11/11/2012

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:01:27. > :01:31.The Taoiseach and his deputy come north to join in services of

:01:31. > :01:41.remembrance in Belfast and Enniskillen. We talk live to the

:01:41. > :01:41.

:01:41. > :37:26.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2145 seconds

:37:26. > :37:30.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.

:37:30. > :37:34.On this Remembrance Sunday, leading politicians from the Republic have

:37:34. > :37:37.joined services here to honour the war dead. We talked to the Tanaiste

:37:38. > :37:41.on why he felt he had to lay a wreath in Belfast.

:37:41. > :37:46.And as the SDLP meets for its annual conference, we ask the party

:37:46. > :37:56.leader what he has achieved one year into his job.

:37:56. > :37:57.

:37:57. > :37:59.And casting an eye, Finnouala O'Connor and Jim Flanagan.

:37:59. > :38:03.The Irish deputy prime minister Eamon Gilmore laid a wreath at

:38:03. > :38:06.Belfast City Hall this morning during Remembrance Day service.

:38:06. > :38:10.This is the first time an Irish government has sent a

:38:10. > :38:13.representative to the Remembrance Sunday event in the city. There

:38:13. > :38:18.Taoiseach was in Enniskillen participating in the service of the

:38:18. > :38:23.war memorial there, where an IRA bomb claimed the lives of 11 people

:38:23. > :38:27.twenty-five years ago. Eamon Gilmore is with me now. Welcome to

:38:27. > :38:31.Sunday Politics, by due for joining us. Why did you want to take part

:38:31. > :38:38.in today's act of remembrance in Belfast? To remember all those who

:38:38. > :38:42.died and he suffered in the great for us. Why do not think there is a

:38:42. > :38:52.family or a community are a parish anywhere in Ireland that was not

:38:52. > :38:57.touch by the Great War is that did not have -- by the Great Wars. This

:38:57. > :39:00.is part of our shared history and the Irish government wanted to be

:39:00. > :39:06.part of sharing that remembrance with the people of Belfast and

:39:06. > :39:12.Northern Ireland. That is why I attended in Belfast and a Taoiseach

:39:12. > :39:15.has attended in Enniskillen. It is the first time an Irish government

:39:15. > :39:19.representative has officially attend the Remembrance event in

:39:19. > :39:24.Belfast. We have seen pictures of the Taoiseach lay in the week in

:39:24. > :39:29.Enniskillen. We are seen pictures if you blame you weave in Belfast.

:39:29. > :39:35.The symbolism of both of you being in Northern Ireland will not be

:39:35. > :39:43.lost on anyone. We have a shared history and we are in what we call

:39:43. > :39:47.a decade of commemorations, we will commemorate 1912-1922. As part of

:39:47. > :39:53.that decade of commemorations, it is important we remember together.

:39:53. > :39:57.So much of this was a shared endeavour. Remember at the time of

:39:57. > :40:02.the Great War, there were people from different parts of Ireland who

:40:02. > :40:07.took part in the war, who suffered and died, and it is important that

:40:07. > :40:12.we remember these things together and do so with respect, with

:40:12. > :40:16.integrity and with dignity. We want it to be -- we wanted to be part of

:40:16. > :40:20.that. If it is our shared history and understanding at the moment,

:40:20. > :40:25.obviously that was not always the case. By using there is a palpable

:40:25. > :40:35.change in the way the vast majority of people in the Republic view this

:40:35. > :40:36.

:40:36. > :40:40.issue? Things are moving on. The constituency I represent in Dublin,

:40:40. > :40:47.the first time we did a commemoration for the Leinster,

:40:47. > :40:52.which was sunk just a month before Armistice Day 1918, hundreds of

:40:52. > :40:56.soldiers were returning to the front in it, postal workers were

:40:56. > :41:01.sorting letters, this had not been talked about in our history and it

:41:01. > :41:04.was significant that when we did decide to commemorate its, that

:41:04. > :41:09.there were families from all over Ireland who came forward and said,

:41:09. > :41:12.I had her grandfather on that ship, or someone belonging to me. -- I

:41:12. > :41:17.had a grandfather. There is a strong sense of people throughout

:41:18. > :41:22.the island who want to remember these events and want to remember

:41:22. > :41:28.them with respect. There was real change, per minute change,

:41:28. > :41:31.meaningful change in people's attitudes in the south, you would

:41:31. > :41:35.in fact be leading a national event at remembering the war dead in

:41:35. > :41:40.Dublin rather than coming to Belfast and Enniskillen? There is

:41:40. > :41:45.still some way to go. We have a national day of commemoration every

:41:45. > :41:50.July. We are talking about Remembrance Sunday. The President

:41:50. > :41:55.of Ireland will attend an event in St Patrick's Cathedral, just as his

:41:55. > :41:59.predecessors have done over many years. We have been commemorating

:41:59. > :42:04.these events. What is different today is that we are commemorating

:42:04. > :42:11.these events here in Belfast, in my case, and in Enniskillen in the

:42:11. > :42:15.case of the Taoiseach. There have been events of commemoration and

:42:15. > :42:20.remembrance in Dublin, a national day of commemoration in July and a

:42:20. > :42:24.commemoration by the President on Remembrance Sunday. I understand

:42:24. > :42:28.that and know that has taken place. Do you think an event similar to

:42:28. > :42:34.the event in Belfast or Enniskillen would be something Dublin would

:42:34. > :42:36.welcome in the centre of the city, not associated with a church, that

:42:36. > :42:44.featured the President, Prime Minister, polished up and everyone

:42:45. > :42:48.who wanted to assemble in that way? -- Tanaiste and everyone. It is

:42:49. > :42:51.important to remember everything that took place, this shared

:42:51. > :42:55.experience of families, irrespective of whether they were

:42:55. > :43:00.from Belfast or court. When news came back that somebody was missing

:43:00. > :43:05.or had lost their life, it was the same sadness and sorrow suffered by

:43:05. > :43:09.the family, the widow, the people who were left behind. I think that

:43:09. > :43:13.is a shared experience, but we remember right across the island,

:43:13. > :43:17.and it is appropriate that we do it in different ways, we direct our

:43:17. > :43:21.own way, but that we share in that memory and in that experience. Also

:43:21. > :43:25.it is important that we share in the conviction that it should not

:43:25. > :43:30.happen again. In remembering war, one of the things we should always

:43:30. > :43:34.commit ourselves to doing is making sure it is not repeated and that we

:43:34. > :43:39.work to maintain peace, whether on this island or internationally.

:43:39. > :43:42.we just talk about party politics. The Fianna Fail leader Micheal

:43:42. > :43:45.Martin and launched a scathing attack against Sinn Fein in an

:43:45. > :43:50.interview I did with him on our political programme of Thursday

:43:50. > :43:53.night. He was criticising Sinn Fein for demonstrating against the

:43:53. > :43:56.charging of one of its members in connection with the murder of

:43:56. > :44:00.Robert McCartney. Are you are uncomfortable with her Sinn Fein

:44:00. > :44:03.handled the issue? We have to support the police service of

:44:03. > :44:10.Northern Ireland in what they do in investigating crime, irrespective

:44:10. > :44:14.of what crime it is. The PSNI, its strength is to do that impartially.

:44:14. > :44:21.That is what we have all sought down the years. There cannot be, in

:44:21. > :44:24.my view, any partial investigation of crimes. The PSNI have to

:44:24. > :44:28.investigate crimes and take whatever action they have to take,

:44:28. > :44:32.arrest whoever they have to arrest in connection with crimes. But has

:44:32. > :44:37.to be done without fear or favour and should not be subject to

:44:37. > :44:42.political influence of any kind. I want to bring in our commentators.

:44:42. > :44:46.Jim Flanagan, you were in Enniskillen on the day of the Bomb

:44:47. > :44:51.25 years ago. How do you think people there will feel about the

:44:51. > :44:54.Taoiseach taking part in the act of remembrance this morning? I am

:44:54. > :44:58.delighted he is in Enniskillen today. He will be warmly welcomed

:44:59. > :45:03.by the community down there. I was in Enniskillen that date and I

:45:03. > :45:08.vividly remember the scenes of devastation and the subsequent

:45:08. > :45:12.human heartbreak visited upon the community. That particular incident

:45:12. > :45:20.was a violation against humanity. A group of people were gathering to

:45:20. > :45:24.honour the dead, of all religions and none. Progress, Finnouala?

:45:24. > :45:27.course it is. Up until a couple of years ago, Eamon Gilmore would not

:45:27. > :45:31.have been welcome in Belfast. Attitudes have changed at different

:45:31. > :45:35.paces in different places. Many Unionists were not have welcomed

:45:35. > :45:39.anyone from the Irish government turning up at the City Hall. The

:45:39. > :45:46.fact that he and Enda Kenny have been able to come is not just

:45:46. > :45:50.movement in Dublin, but Ms mature as well. You will be encouraged to

:45:50. > :45:56.hear to perspective political commentators are supporting the

:45:56. > :45:59.move you have taken as a government? -- two respective

:45:59. > :46:04.political commentators. I was also encouraged by the warm reception I

:46:04. > :46:08.got this morning, the great sense of being among people who welcomes

:46:08. > :46:17.me here. Yeah were there with the First Minister and the lord mayor

:46:17. > :46:22.of Belfast, be DUP's Gavin Robinson. -- the DUP's Gavin Robinson. Did

:46:22. > :46:28.you talk to them? Yes, we talk all the time about common interests on

:46:28. > :46:34.the island. I met with Peter Robinson and the Deputy First

:46:34. > :46:38.Minister jester or four weeks ago. -- just over a week ago. I met with

:46:39. > :46:42.Theresa Villiers in Dublin. I was delighted to be in City Hall this

:46:42. > :46:48.morning. Last time I was there it was at her local authority events

:46:48. > :46:58.several years ago. BG get a sense that Peter Robinson and the leader

:46:58. > :47:00.

:47:00. > :47:05.of the DUP in Northern Ireland was glad to see you there? We have a

:47:05. > :47:07.standing invitation from the City Council and I expect attendance by

:47:07. > :47:14.the Irish government will be a normal part of this event from

:47:14. > :47:20.hereon. What message will you take home to Dublin after today's

:47:20. > :47:26.Defence? The message that I will take home is how important this

:47:26. > :47:31.remembrance days to be people who were there, to be -- to those who

:47:31. > :47:35.have a strong sense of the suffering that took place in the

:47:35. > :47:43.war and how important it is that the Irish government be represented

:47:43. > :47:47.at events like this in Northern Ireland. Thank you for coming in.

:47:47. > :47:51.More from our commentators later in the programme.

:47:51. > :47:55.Should be SDLP going to opposition at Stormont? That was one idea

:47:55. > :47:59.raised at the annual conference this weekend. Some activists see it

:47:59. > :48:03.as a logical step forward, arguing it will hold the Executive to

:48:03. > :48:07.account. Others see it is to bigger risk and should only be considered

:48:08. > :48:13.in the long time. In a moment I will be talking to the SDLP leader.

:48:13. > :48:18.Let's hear from our political correspondent.

:48:18. > :48:26.Around the conference., political metaphors are everywhere. Is there

:48:26. > :48:31.a lot about to change and are we witnessing the substance or spend -

:48:31. > :48:36.- spin? Dolores Kelly sparked debate. She wants the party to

:48:36. > :48:40.consider going into opposition at Stormont. I think opposition can

:48:40. > :48:45.work as an accountable mechanism for people to get involved in the

:48:45. > :48:51.real politics and real policies and manifestos of political parties.

:48:51. > :48:56.The SDLP's sole Minister is Alex Attwood. Does he feel it is time to

:48:56. > :49:01.leave the Executive? I can see a system of government in the future

:49:01. > :49:05.that has an opposition. The issue is, is this the time and place to

:49:05. > :49:10.prepare for that? How did the rank and file of view the prospect of

:49:10. > :49:14.opposition? In the long term it must be a viable option, but is

:49:14. > :49:18.what democracy involved. involves. It is something we should

:49:18. > :49:23.be thinking about. Be it is getting to the stage where it is inevitable,

:49:23. > :49:27.we cannot keep going the way we are doing. It is a power-sharing

:49:27. > :49:34.Executive, power-sharing legislator and at the minute, I do not think

:49:34. > :49:41.it is time for an opera Sassoon -- opposition. We need to stay there

:49:41. > :49:46.at the men it. -- at the minute. much attention was on Alasdair

:49:46. > :49:51.McDonnell's keynote address. He claimed that the DUP and Sinn Fein

:49:51. > :49:57.were engaged in phoney disputes. Let me tell them, the time for

:49:57. > :50:02.plain schoolboy politics has long gone. This was a speech that

:50:02. > :50:06.touched on many key SDLP themes such as peace, prosperity and

:50:06. > :50:10.reconciliation. What Alasdair McDonnell did not talk about in

:50:10. > :50:19.detail with the issue of opposition, a subject close to his deputy

:50:19. > :50:22.leader's card. Some comfort -- some observers say opposition could be

:50:22. > :50:26.the way forward. Do the people of Northern Ireland need an

:50:26. > :50:30.opposition? The SDLP have been rewarded by the public one may have

:50:30. > :50:35.been at their boldest and bravest. Just because it doesn't exist

:50:35. > :50:41.doesn't mean we should not vote for it. Alasdair McDonnell says his

:50:41. > :50:47.party's fight back is under way. On the horizon, they made Ulster by-

:50:47. > :50:52.election and a European election. Very soon, the party can decide if

:50:53. > :50:57.the leader is going in the right direction.

:50:57. > :51:00.Alasdair McDonnell joins me now. Your first speech as leader last

:51:01. > :51:05.year was not widely judged as a great success. Did you feel you

:51:05. > :51:14.made up for lost ground yesterday? Yesterday I said what I had to say.

:51:14. > :51:18.I had a lot of ground to cover. I was very happy with the conference.

:51:18. > :51:22.You must have been annoyed about the debate about opposition. You

:51:22. > :51:27.signed off yesterday and recovered the speech. I saw every minute of

:51:27. > :51:33.it. You signed off with a rallying call for delegates to work to get

:51:33. > :51:37.SDLP back to the heart of government again. The night before,

:51:37. > :51:41.you deputy was calling delegates to move into position. I think she

:51:41. > :51:49.said simply that we should considerate and we will. She said,

:51:49. > :51:57.should not we be thinking about whether this is going? We could

:51:57. > :52:02.lose our soul If we stay in the Executive. I think the SDLP's grown

:52:02. > :52:11.-- role is to build a future and to create a prosperity process for a

:52:11. > :52:16.Northern Ireland. That sounds like a mixed message. She used a stay at

:52:16. > :52:24.the heart of government, she says get out of it. Fine, people want to

:52:24. > :52:28.mix it. We are now at the beginning of a process, we will discuss that.

:52:28. > :52:33.From my perspective, the objective is not to put the SDLP into

:52:33. > :52:41.opposition. My objective is to win back seats and put us right back at

:52:41. > :52:45.the heart. The problem is, we have stagnation in Stormont. Without the

:52:45. > :52:49.SDLP driving and coming up with ideas it will not move on. The way

:52:49. > :52:55.you run the people to your standard is by having at Clear clarion call,

:52:55. > :53:00.a clear message. It looks like the leader saying one thing and the

:53:00. > :53:05.deputy leader saying something else. We do not have an army council. We

:53:05. > :53:09.are a democratic party. That is different from an agreed policy,

:53:09. > :53:14.you do not seem to have that. have agreed policies offer a range

:53:14. > :53:20.of things. We have agreed policies over efforts to create prosperity

:53:20. > :53:24.and holding the present Executive to account. If you want people to

:53:24. > :53:26.join new to get the SDLP back above heart of government, why would you

:53:26. > :53:31.tell me you want to start a discussion about going into

:53:31. > :53:35.opposition, which is what you have just said? We will discuss

:53:35. > :53:39.opposition in context because it may be an option. You have to

:53:39. > :53:42.discuss all of the options. There is no place at the moment, no place

:53:42. > :53:48.on the schedule of things at the moment, called opposition. There is

:53:48. > :53:54.no role for an opposition. From my perspective, and others are free to

:53:54. > :54:00.disagree with me or to think of it as a good idea, and ensure it will

:54:00. > :54:04.be discussed, -- I am sure it will be discussed, there is no place

:54:04. > :54:11.called opposition, there is no role at for opposition and we will be to

:54:11. > :54:16.some extent limiting our capacity to influence. We have been working

:54:16. > :54:20.for months with the Irish government around a whole array of

:54:20. > :54:25.things as to how we ensure the next decade is a decade of respect and

:54:25. > :54:31.reconciliation rather than further conflict. That is where we are at

:54:31. > :54:33.our best, with ideas and ambition and bringing people together.

:54:33. > :54:37.said you would lead the regeneration of your party in your

:54:37. > :54:41.first year as leader. You said yesterday in your speech, and I

:54:41. > :54:46.underline bid, the party is stronger than a year ago. Where is

:54:46. > :54:49.the evidence? 12 months on, you are down in the polls and a personal

:54:50. > :54:58.approval rating has slumped to the bottom of the five main party

:54:58. > :55:04.leaders. That is fine. Those were not the same polls from the

:55:04. > :55:09.conference. We had a buoyant confidence -- conference yesterday.

:55:09. > :55:13.That is your delegates. This is from the population generally.

:55:13. > :55:19.have a party that is moving. We had at conference with more active

:55:19. > :55:23.young people. I have brought in 40 new local representatives. There is

:55:23. > :55:28.a buoyancy and urgency and an ambition in the SDLP that has not

:55:28. > :55:38.been there for a while. At the Assembly election you had 14.2%.

:55:38. > :55:39.

:55:39. > :55:45.The latest poll in Northern Ireland you can't -- had 13%. The European

:55:45. > :55:52.elections in 18 months' time, that is my objective. It will count in

:55:52. > :55:56.June, 2014, when we have elections to Europe. I can promise you, our

:55:56. > :56:00.vote will be well up. You think you are moving in the right direction?

:56:01. > :56:05.I am confident. If you had spoken to anyone at a conference he would

:56:05. > :56:08.have known that. Remembering the past has been a

:56:08. > :56:15.dominant theme in a political story as we'd be back at the week in 60

:56:15. > :56:18.seconds. -- in a political story as we look

:56:18. > :56:23.back at the week. In Cookstown, hundreds attended the

:56:23. > :56:28.funeral of David Platt, murdered by dissident republicans. Every sane

:56:28. > :56:33.person in Milan believes that those who carried out the killing are

:56:33. > :56:38.odious, pain filled deviance and psychopaths who should be locked up

:56:38. > :56:43.for life. 25 years on, the people of

:56:43. > :56:47.Enniskillen remembered those who died when the IRA exploded a bomb

:56:47. > :56:53.at the town's war memorial in 1987. At car parking charges are to be

:56:53. > :56:59.frozen for three years as part of a �2 habits 1,000 economic package

:56:59. > :57:03.announced by the Executive. -- �200,000.

:57:03. > :57:12.One of Northern Ireland's biggest building firms went into

:57:12. > :57:22.administration putting jobs at risk. Give some leadership and tell them

:57:22. > :57:24.

:57:24. > :57:29.were used stand today. -- bird you stand.

:57:29. > :57:32.Finnouala and Jim Flanagan are still with me. Let's talk about the

:57:32. > :57:37.SDLP conference and Alasdair McDonnell. First, the idea of

:57:37. > :57:40.opposition. Is it a red herring? is a red herring. It seems a

:57:40. > :57:44.distraction. It is not what politics are now been Ireland is

:57:44. > :57:49.going to be about for a considerable time. -- in Northern

:57:49. > :57:54.Ireland. These are abnormal arrangements. It is the best we

:57:54. > :58:04.could do, it is an arrangement that brings everybody in. What is more

:58:04. > :58:05.

:58:05. > :58:10.significant is for Alasdair McDonnell is losing motions about

:58:10. > :58:14.internal reorganisation. His biggest strength has always been

:58:15. > :58:22.energy. His ability to energise the party that really struggles to find

:58:22. > :58:28.a role, that is true. Without it, both them and the Ulster Unionist

:58:28. > :58:33.are hoists in Stormont. The best he can do is appeared to voters. 18

:58:33. > :58:43.months from now will not be about their position in opposition but

:58:43. > :58:45.

:58:45. > :58:52.how loudly they met. The the issue of opposition was introduced by

:58:52. > :59:00.Dolores Kelly. They were not prepared to take his advice?

:59:00. > :59:05.says they are a party in trouble. The SDLP is struggling, having been

:59:05. > :59:10.for a very long time the leader of the nationalist political opinion.

:59:10. > :59:16.It is normal that there are difficult and different opinions.

:59:16. > :59:18.Is the party in trouble? Possibly. I do not know whether to Loris

:59:18. > :59:24.Kelly cleared what she said with him or whether he knew it was

:59:24. > :59:29.coming up. -- Dolores Kelly. Four now, he would rather be inside the

:59:29. > :59:37.tent looking out. He gave a clue that he did not want to lead the

:59:37. > :59:40.SDLP in to opposition. Forever and a date was the phrase he used. That

:59:40. > :59:45.would be his concern, given the rise of Sinn Fein that he could be

:59:45. > :59:49.locking the door for good. What precisely does the need to do? He

:59:49. > :59:55.says he is confident that despite what the polls suggest he is moving

:59:55. > :00:00.in the right direction. This that ring true? It is from a very low

:00:00. > :00:05.position. It is a question of making the best of a bad job. After

:00:05. > :00:09.a rocky start that is what he is doing. It does not matter if there