:00:39. > :00:48.Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's
:00:48. > :00:54.Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he
:00:54. > :00:58.has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps
:00:58. > :01:05.going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.
:01:05. > :01:08.Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne
:01:08. > :01:10.will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.
:01:10. > :01:19.And in Northern Ireland, the Prime Diane Abbott will
:01:19. > :01:21.And in Northern Ireland, the Prime Minister came and delivered his best
:01:21. > :01:26.sales pitch, says we've misunderstood the problem
:01:26. > :01:35.of human trafficking and that men are the forgotten victims.
:01:35. > :01:40.And with me, as always, three pundits who we try to shuffle out of
:01:40. > :01:45.a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an
:01:45. > :01:50.Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if their lives depended on it
:01:50. > :01:54.throughout the programme. Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving
:01:54. > :02:00.to the left or right? Last week, a chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen
:02:00. > :02:04.a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could
:02:04. > :02:08.indicate he moved back to the middle. New shadows Work and
:02:09. > :02:14.Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the
:02:14. > :02:17.Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools
:02:17. > :02:21.after all. Here he is on the BBC earlier this morning.
:02:21. > :02:26.I've one message for you and viewers. If you are a group of
:02:26. > :02:31.parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting up a
:02:31. > :02:35.school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government
:02:35. > :02:37.will be on your side. That's free schools. We are in favour of
:02:37. > :02:41.enterprise and innovation. It will schools. We are in favour of
:02:41. > :02:46.be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It
:02:46. > :02:51.will have properly qualified teachers in these schools. And
:02:51. > :03:01.thirdly, systems of financial accountability. What is going on
:03:01. > :03:04.with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael
:03:05. > :03:10.Gove's policy. I'm not sure if the policies have
:03:11. > :03:14.changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and free
:03:14. > :03:17.schools. A significant change of tone. It was interesting the
:03:17. > :03:25.reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge
:03:25. > :03:32.of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.
:03:32. > :03:36.Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying
:03:36. > :03:43.Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip
:03:43. > :03:48.from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of
:03:49. > :03:53.need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,
:03:53. > :03:59.we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set
:03:59. > :04:04.these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,
:04:04. > :04:09.so far the debate has been polarised. You've had the Michael
:04:09. > :04:13.Gove uber reformers in the department. This weekend, we've had
:04:13. > :04:17.leaked memos from one of Michael Gove's advisers which are extreme
:04:17. > :04:23.views about the state of education. And on the other side teaching
:04:23. > :04:27.unions. It hasn't led to a healthy debate which represents what parents
:04:27. > :04:33.want out of schools or employers. This is a huge move from the Labour
:04:33. > :04:39.Party to sound more reasonable. They have been silent on education which
:04:39. > :04:47.is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?
:04:47. > :04:51.They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free
:04:51. > :04:57.schools for those who have them? You only apiece the focus groups by
:04:57. > :05:01.changing the policy substantially. I always thought a test for this
:05:01. > :05:06.Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed Miliband would promote Blair rights,
:05:06. > :05:11.it is clear he did, it is whether they would be allowed to be Blair
:05:11. > :05:15.rights. When Stephen Twigg carried the education portfolio it was clear
:05:15. > :05:20.his own views were closer to the Government than he was allowed to
:05:20. > :05:24.let on. He was constrained. There is no point of giving Tristram Hunt
:05:24. > :05:28.this job if he is not allowed to say what he thinks. I wouldn't mind
:05:28. > :05:34.betting privately he thinks free schools should be available beyond
:05:34. > :05:39.just areas of need. He hasn't yet defined need. It could be, we've run
:05:39. > :05:45.out of places or the existing schools are so bad we need schools.
:05:45. > :05:54.If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they
:05:54. > :06:00.are in schools rated as unsatisfactory that's no different.
:06:00. > :06:03.He wanted to say he was in favour of higher educational standards and
:06:03. > :06:08.rigour, he had to tell the audience he has a Cambridge PhD to attack
:06:08. > :06:13.Michael Gove. That was difficult for Tristram Hunt he had to mention
:06:13. > :06:24.that. Is that worth something, a PhD from Cambridge? Obviously to him it
:06:24. > :06:29.is. He said they would demand proper teaching qualifications. That could
:06:29. > :06:35.count him out. He does some teaching? Independent schools do not
:06:35. > :06:40.have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never
:06:40. > :06:49.been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow
:06:49. > :06:52.free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to
:06:52. > :06:57.say that. Watch this space. The dust settled
:06:57. > :07:05.after the party resufficients. Do the Tories look a bit more like
:07:05. > :07:12.Britain. Do the Tories look more like Labour? Here's guiles.
:07:12. > :07:17.#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,
:07:17. > :07:23.rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping
:07:23. > :07:28.beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in
:07:28. > :07:32.and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street with
:07:32. > :07:37.a smile on their face after going to see the boss. The once who are to be
:07:37. > :07:44.sacked, they usually go round the back. Not this time. No, something
:07:44. > :07:48.new alerted us all. The-PM started it. It was an extraordinary day. I
:07:48. > :07:52.can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties
:07:52. > :07:56.changing ministerial teams at the same time. The fact is that
:07:56. > :08:00.resufficient happened on Twitter. Not that the press stopped watching
:08:00. > :08:06.the door as well. News was a bit slow in coming until Alastair
:08:06. > :08:11.Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm
:08:11. > :08:16.disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been
:08:16. > :08:19.able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one
:08:20. > :08:29.imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and
:08:29. > :08:36.on... And on... And on! #4 The welcomer, who was
:08:36. > :08:43.simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of
:08:43. > :08:47.the Home Office in conspiracy to let Norman Baker sing a tune.
:08:47. > :08:52.the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic
:08:52. > :08:59.cone... # #. The brutality of the Liberal
:08:59. > :09:03.Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet
:09:03. > :09:08.Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory
:09:08. > :09:12.ranks were shifting too. The PM keen to boost the numbers of telegenic
:09:12. > :09:15.women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He
:09:15. > :09:21.tipped a so-called flatcap to men from the north or more humble
:09:22. > :09:25.backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends
:09:25. > :09:31.of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers were
:09:31. > :09:36.learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young
:09:36. > :09:43.blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of
:09:43. > :09:47.that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe
:09:47. > :09:53.as hard left. But Blairbrushing the past out of the picture seemed to be
:09:53. > :09:57.the name of the day. Liam Byrne moved from higher profile roles.
:09:57. > :10:01.With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It
:10:01. > :10:05.depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted Tony
:10:05. > :10:08.Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely
:10:08. > :10:12.with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain set
:10:13. > :10:17.of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair
:10:17. > :10:21.rights within the party. But we are seeing the group around Tony Blair
:10:22. > :10:28.are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was
:10:28. > :10:33.over. New bees were sharing the spoils of winner while ousted
:10:33. > :10:42.ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or one
:10:42. > :10:46.angry ex-wife bemoaned their dismissal.
:10:46. > :10:49.Disappointment in politics is disified. How much much someone
:10:49. > :10:55.standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get
:10:55. > :11:03.someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!
:11:03. > :11:09.And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins
:11:09. > :11:16.us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used
:11:16. > :11:21.in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:21. > :11:29.hearing you loud and clear. Why have you agreed to run a department? That
:11:29. > :11:34.you wanted to abolish six years ago? Hello? Maybe our connections are not
:11:34. > :11:38.so great after all. Alastair Charmichael. Can you hear me? I can
:11:38. > :11:43.hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.
:11:43. > :11:49.Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department
:11:49. > :11:53.you wanted to abolish six years ago? Because this is the, probably one of
:11:53. > :11:58.the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure
:11:58. > :12:04.that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about
:12:04. > :12:09.the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of
:12:09. > :12:13.Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is
:12:13. > :12:18.true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a
:12:18. > :12:22.real voice in that debate. What have you that Michael Moore didn't have?
:12:22. > :12:27.Look, I think Michael Moore did an excellent job. The work he did
:12:27. > :12:33.delivering the Edinburgh agreement to ensure we got a proper, fair,
:12:33. > :12:39.clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to
:12:39. > :12:43.the Scottish Parliament was a substantial piece of work. I'm not
:12:43. > :12:49.comparing myself to Michael. He's a friend of mine. I will say that as
:12:49. > :12:53.we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself. I
:12:53. > :12:59.will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to
:12:59. > :13:05.remain part of the UK. This isn't just some abstract debate about
:13:05. > :13:09.nationhood, sovereignty, this is a real debate about people's jobs,
:13:09. > :13:14.their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot
:13:14. > :13:21.more. For that, I relish the challenge. I understand that. But if
:13:21. > :13:28.you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --
:13:28. > :13:34.poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing
:13:34. > :13:37.pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to
:13:37. > :13:44.save the Liberal Democrats in Scotland? And lieu, you misread the
:13:44. > :13:47.situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think
:13:47. > :13:51.anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people
:13:51. > :13:55.who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn out
:13:55. > :14:00.next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for
:14:00. > :14:05.that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own
:14:06. > :14:13.party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You
:14:13. > :14:19.were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in
:14:19. > :14:23.fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the
:14:23. > :14:26.Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for
:14:26. > :14:30.everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for
:14:31. > :14:35.a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could
:14:35. > :14:40.have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and
:14:40. > :14:45.for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in
:14:45. > :14:48.British politics for the last three-and-a-half years, Liberal
:14:48. > :14:52.Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition Government. I would not have
:14:52. > :14:55.survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I
:14:55. > :15:00.was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.
:15:00. > :15:05.So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.
:15:05. > :15:10.As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also of
:15:10. > :15:13.the referendum vote, opinion polls are a snapshot. They are not a
:15:13. > :15:19.prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there
:15:19. > :15:23.putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one
:15:23. > :15:27.or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against
:15:27. > :15:33.is the complacency which says because we are a good margin ahead
:15:33. > :15:41.today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.
:15:41. > :15:44.Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal
:15:44. > :15:48.Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the
:15:48. > :15:53.real poll in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.
:15:53. > :16:04.You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should
:16:04. > :16:09.David Cameron face him? I am happy to face anybody who wants to
:16:09. > :16:17.debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex
:16:17. > :16:21.Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists to portray this as some
:16:21. > :16:26.sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy
:16:26. > :16:31.and English conservativism, which it is not. This is a debate that has to
:16:31. > :16:39.be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David
:16:39. > :16:44.Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is
:16:44. > :16:48.not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,
:16:48. > :16:54.the person who should be debating with Alex Salmond is Alistair
:16:54. > :16:58.Darling. He has got a Scottish name and his family hails from the
:16:58. > :17:05.wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described
:17:05. > :17:11.the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were
:17:11. > :17:18.you referring to the campaign or Alistair Darling? I was not
:17:18. > :17:24.referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that as
:17:24. > :17:32.we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:32. > :17:38.are now campaigning for people 's hearts because if you look at the
:17:38. > :17:43.range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the
:17:43. > :17:54.arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle
:17:54. > :17:58.for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as
:17:58. > :18:04.somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland to
:18:04. > :18:10.remain part of the UK. You come from an island that has eight
:18:10. > :18:15.distilleries and I understand you haven't even had a single
:18:15. > :18:22.celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips. Not
:18:22. > :18:28.supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the 1st
:18:28. > :18:31.of November, I will be doing it in aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if
:18:32. > :18:37.anybody wants to go to their website, they can donate. It is
:18:37. > :18:46.worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister
:18:46. > :18:51.who many thought might get Reef -- we shuffled but didn't is Ken
:18:51. > :18:56.Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,
:18:56. > :19:04.more women and more ethnic minorities, where did you fit in? I
:19:04. > :19:10.would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it is
:19:10. > :19:14.difficult to replace them. I enjoy it. It is a great privilege to have
:19:14. > :19:20.a role in Cabinet and I will carry on as long as David wants me to do.
:19:20. > :19:25.I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have
:19:25. > :19:31.survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this
:19:31. > :19:38.reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,
:19:38. > :19:48.asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my
:19:48. > :19:52.role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings
:19:52. > :19:57.of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.
:19:57. > :20:04.You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why do
:20:04. > :20:08.you keep going? What do you hope to achieve in politics? I am mostly a
:20:08. > :20:14.political anorak, I have been since I was very small, by the process of
:20:14. > :20:18.politics but the older I get I get more concerned about the good
:20:18. > :20:21.governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems
:20:21. > :20:27.is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is very
:20:27. > :20:31.difficult and I find it fascinating. The old argument that attracts every
:20:31. > :20:36.decent person into politics, you might be able sometimes to make a
:20:36. > :20:41.bit of difference, and I try to do that. I try not to hark back on my
:20:41. > :20:44.experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the
:20:44. > :20:51.Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on
:20:51. > :20:57.Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain
:20:57. > :21:05.adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda
:21:05. > :21:08.on Britain's membership to the EU? I am always for holding people
:21:08. > :21:11.accountable to the long-term and medium term consequences of
:21:11. > :21:16.decisions they take as representatives, but this is a
:21:16. > :21:20.generational thing. I am in a minority now and my colleagues have
:21:20. > :21:24.firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of
:21:24. > :21:29.Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is one
:21:29. > :21:33.of the most important things in politics. It will determine
:21:33. > :21:37.Britain's place in the modern world and determine whether our
:21:37. > :21:39.politicians are able to look after the living standards, the economy,
:21:39. > :21:46.the safety against terrorism. Last the living standards, the economy,
:21:46. > :21:54.summer you said that only extreme nationalists wanted a silly EU
:21:54. > :21:59.referendum. It follows your party must be full of extremely silly
:21:59. > :22:04.nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are
:22:04. > :22:08.all the people who actually want to leave the European Union. The
:22:08. > :22:13.referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get
:22:13. > :22:18.across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing you
:22:18. > :22:22.read in the newspaper about what the commission is or is not doing, do
:22:22. > :22:30.bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a
:22:30. > :22:33.leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from
:22:33. > :22:39.there we can have a greater influence in events. That is not
:22:39. > :22:44.just how the politicians get on the world stage, it is how the
:22:44. > :22:49.politicians look after us when we face danger from terrorism is
:22:49. > :22:53.spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being
:22:53. > :23:00.threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will give
:23:00. > :23:05.us a referendum. I had other engagements on the Friday concerned.
:23:05. > :23:08.It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be
:23:08. > :23:16.seen voting for something your heart is not in. Let's be honest here.
:23:16. > :23:25.Look, many of your colleagues I have interviewed say that if the choice
:23:25. > :23:30.was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and
:23:30. > :23:34.leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in
:23:34. > :23:42.even on the status quo, wouldn't you? I haven't spent so long
:23:42. > :23:46.supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy is
:23:46. > :23:51.much stronger than it would have been if we were outside the EU. We
:23:51. > :23:55.have continued attracting investment, as in Washington last
:23:55. > :24:04.week. We are trying to roll forward the prospect of free trade and I
:24:04. > :24:09.have to reassure Americans that we are not likely to leave the EU to
:24:09. > :24:16.make sure they will invest here. That is true but it also needs
:24:16. > :24:22.reform. The cry for reform, which is echoed in other countries,
:24:22. > :24:26.particularly Germany, is a good one. Even if David Cameron came back with
:24:26. > :24:34.nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?
:24:34. > :24:38.Going off to be a small economy, and one which is dwindling in comparison
:24:38. > :24:42.with others, in the modern world it would be dangerous. I also think the
:24:42. > :24:46.dangers of the Middle East and the dangers of some of the countries
:24:46. > :24:50.between EU and Russia are considerable, we shouldn't
:24:50. > :24:55.disengage. I will take that as a yes. I do think reform can
:24:55. > :24:59.strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree
:24:59. > :25:04.with me, I trust they will be persuaded when David delivers his
:25:04. > :25:09.reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the
:25:09. > :25:11.Tories and the reason why it has a ten point lead is because UKIP are
:25:11. > :25:17.up there with 18% of the vote and ten point lead is because UKIP are
:25:17. > :25:20.the Tory vote has slumped in the Paul to 27%. How would you see off
:25:20. > :25:27.UKIP? By saying you need a strong Paul to 27%. How would you see off
:25:27. > :25:34.and effective Government. We faced terrible problems. Every Government
:25:34. > :25:39.I have been in has been behind in the polls. This Government is not as
:25:39. > :25:43.popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three
:25:43. > :25:47.previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to ask
:25:47. > :25:54.themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this
:25:54. > :26:00.country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I
:26:00. > :26:05.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not see
:26:05. > :26:11.off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion
:26:11. > :26:17.poll, they tell you how annoyed they are by something that has recently
:26:17. > :26:21.upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government
:26:21. > :26:28.I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you
:26:28. > :26:37.have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern
:26:37. > :26:42.us? They did take over a calamitous situation, and there are very
:26:42. > :26:49.important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents
:26:49. > :26:52.anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I
:26:53. > :27:00.don't think it will get 18% of the opinion -- the polls in any
:27:00. > :27:25.election. Thank you. Once upon a time, a
:27:25. > :27:28.politician whose career ended in disgrace might choose to lie low for
:27:28. > :27:32.a while, perhaps to spend a bit more time tending the tulips and doing
:27:32. > :27:35.the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:35. > :27:38.prison only five months ago but the former Energy Secretary is already
:27:38. > :27:42.back in the public eye - a column in the Guardian, a job with a renewable
:27:42. > :27:44.energy firm, even the odd TV interview. So is he working on a
:27:44. > :27:46.political rehabilitation? Chris Huhne, welcome to the Sunday
:27:47. > :27:49.Politics. The answer to that is clearly know, and thank you for
:27:49. > :27:52.inviting me back. You have set your career in politics is over so what
:27:52. > :27:58.does the future hold for you? I am happy doing what I am doing, I am
:27:58. > :28:04.passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things
:28:04. > :28:07.on that front in terms of business and work for think tanks and
:28:07. > :28:12.non-governmental organisations, and I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:12. > :28:20.on Mondays. You obviously get a lot of material from the Sunday Politics
:28:20. > :28:23.to write about. Have you embarked on political rehabilitation? It was
:28:23. > :28:28.clear from the point of view of the George when I was sentenced, he
:28:28. > :28:32.said, this is not about rehabilitating you, because I had
:28:32. > :28:37.not offended for ten years, it was actually about stopping people like
:28:37. > :28:44.you, Andrew, Ron doing the same thing. It was a deterrent effect for
:28:44. > :28:48.the public. That is I think why the prosecution was brought. I had not
:28:48. > :28:52.offended for ten years on this, either in terms of speeding
:28:52. > :28:56.points... But you are out to rehabilitate yourself in the public?
:28:56. > :29:18.I have been a journalist, rehabilitate yourself in the public?
:29:18. > :29:22.coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own
:29:23. > :29:28.identity? My view is that the Coalition agreement is for the whole
:29:28. > :29:34.Parliament, and the Lib Dems are going to stay, and should stay. What
:29:34. > :29:40.would be a good result for the Lib Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15
:29:40. > :29:45.seats? I think it will be an interesting election because I think
:29:45. > :29:49.you will have essentially three party leaders, all of whom are
:29:49. > :29:52.unpopular. It is almost unprecedented that they have
:29:52. > :29:59.negative ratings so it will be a battle between the walking wounded.
:29:59. > :30:05.In those circumstances, in my view, the Lib Dems can come out very
:30:05. > :30:13.well. But you will lose seats, won't you? It is far too early to say. If
:30:13. > :30:18.the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections, you
:30:18. > :30:24.could come fourth on fifth behind the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's
:30:24. > :30:32.leadership be in jeopardy? I've been in countless cycles where we've had
:30:32. > :30:36.very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general
:30:36. > :30:41.election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in
:30:41. > :30:44.jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I
:30:44. > :30:49.think he'll lead the party into the next general election. I expect
:30:49. > :30:53.we'll do much better than most people think. If we are heading for
:30:53. > :30:58.another hung Parliament, which is what the Liberal Democrats want.
:30:58. > :31:02.Let's be honest, you'd rather be in coalition with the Labour Party than
:31:02. > :31:07.have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to
:31:07. > :31:11.colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour
:31:11. > :31:16.Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of
:31:16. > :31:20.the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is
:31:20. > :31:22.absolutely colleagues in the party, it is
:31:22. > :31:25.the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because
:31:25. > :31:30.we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't
:31:30. > :31:34.take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to
:31:34. > :31:38.coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with
:31:39. > :31:43.either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer
:31:43. > :31:47.Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It
:31:47. > :31:52.is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things
:31:52. > :31:57.that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather
:31:57. > :32:01.than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not
:32:01. > :32:05.for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping
:32:05. > :32:13.up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a
:32:13. > :32:19.temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a
:32:19. > :32:24.sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which
:32:24. > :32:28.led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift
:32:28. > :32:33.everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So
:32:33. > :32:39.unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are
:32:39. > :32:43.getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we
:32:43. > :32:47.are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of
:32:47. > :32:51.the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has
:32:51. > :32:55.son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian
:32:55. > :32:59.prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our
:32:59. > :33:05.base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look
:33:05. > :33:07.at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after
:33:07. > :33:11.all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after
:33:11. > :33:15.. The Conservatives are claiming there are
:33:15. > :33:33.people. Why not cut some of these taxes and
:33:33. > :33:36.people. Why not cut some of these nones sense. It is coming
:33:36. > :33:46.people. Why not cut some of these should no better. One the-hip ok
:33:46. > :33:46.people. Why not cut some of these about this is one person who added
:33:46. > :33:49.green taxes is George Osborne with the
:33:49. > :33:52.green taxes is George Osborne with that? We put it into the coalition
:33:52. > :33:55.green taxes is George Osborne with agreement because the Conservatives
:33:55. > :33:59.green taxes is George Osborne with not want it. We do not need it to
:33:59. > :34:04.drive decarbonisation of the electricity system. It was a revenue
:34:04. > :34:08.raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about
:34:08. > :34:13.green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,
:34:14. > :34:19.wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style
:34:19. > :34:23.press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it
:34:23. > :34:30.refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither here
:34:30. > :34:34.nor there. The Guardian gives me a great platform. If it doesn't sign
:34:34. > :34:40.up to what you believe in will you support it? No because I'm sure
:34:40. > :34:45.they'll allow me to make that that point. I think newspapers will sign
:34:45. > :34:49.up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in
:34:49. > :34:53.recent years. Unparalleled. They need a third party endorsement to
:34:53. > :34:57.say these guys have cleaned up their act. If they are going to get trust
:34:57. > :34:59.back and they will. When they haven't signed up, which they won't,
:34:59. > :35:08.you can You're watching the Sunday politics.
:35:08. > :35:09.Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll talk to
:35:09. > :35:55.welcome to Sunday politics in Northern Ireland. They came, they
:35:55. > :36:05.saw, but will be invest? The Prime Minister made no apology. To analyse
:36:05. > :36:15.the outcome of the investment conference I am joined by a former
:36:15. > :36:34.chairman of investment NI, Stephen Kingon. We start today by looking at
:36:34. > :36:42.a week which saw two murders and a series of highly disruptive alerts.
:36:42. > :36:44.The racist was just yesterday. The M1was closed in both directions
:36:44. > :36:48.The racist was just yesterday. The while the army carried out
:36:48. > :36:59.controlled explosions, causing major delays for drivers. It was later
:36:59. > :37:04.declared and elaborates post. In another case it is not quite
:37:04. > :37:12.unclear, but regardless of who is responsible for these deaths it is a
:37:12. > :37:17.tragedy for their families. We still have a lot of work to do to bring
:37:17. > :37:23.the entire community along with us in this process of conflict
:37:23. > :37:29.transformation. What kind of impact is it having your home city of
:37:29. > :37:35.Derry? There has been a lot of anger across the city. There was a rally
:37:35. > :37:40.which was well attended. There is a strong feeling that people in the
:37:40. > :37:47.city do not want to return to the past. People felt that they had
:37:47. > :37:51.moved on with the City of Culture. If one puts aside the terrible
:37:51. > :37:57.events of the murders, more unfortunate and more worrying idea
:37:57. > :38:03.attempted bomb attacks. That is worrying people very severely. The
:38:03. > :38:05.City of Culture still has some way to run. It has been pretty
:38:05. > :38:09.City of Culture still has some way successful so far from a public
:38:09. > :38:11.City of Culture still has some way relations point of view. There has
:38:11. > :38:15.been a lot of good things said about relations point of view. There has
:38:15. > :38:19.the way that it has unfolded. Is there a real fear that dissident
:38:19. > :38:25.republicans are responsible and that they are making a point? We have to
:38:25. > :38:32.put the murder to one side. That has got faces a thick origins, we have
:38:32. > :38:36.to wait for the investigative process... You think it can have
:38:36. > :38:41.more to do with criminality than political ideology? That is the
:38:41. > :38:52.assumption, yes. We have to separate the murders. What we have to look at
:38:52. > :38:59.is the fact that we have significant sections of the community who feel
:38:59. > :39:06.disaffected from the peace process. That includes the recent situation
:39:06. > :39:12.in Derry, but also in north Belfast. The continuous marching debate that
:39:12. > :39:19.is going on and off first. -- in north Belfast. Society as a whole
:39:19. > :39:23.has responsibility to reach out and bring people into the process and
:39:23. > :39:26.address issues that they have that are outstanding to make them feel
:39:26. > :39:32.part of the journey. We will hear more from both of you. Against that
:39:32. > :39:37.backdrop, the Prime Minister was here selling Northern Ireland to
:39:37. > :39:44.international to the owners -- international developers. But the
:39:44. > :39:50.debate? David Cameron made no apology about selling the benefits
:39:50. > :39:53.of Northern Ireland. A big challenge remains here. The
:39:53. > :39:58.state sector is too big and the private sector is too small. We need
:39:58. > :40:01.to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy. Every politician here in
:40:01. > :40:07.Northern Ireland is committed to making sure that that rebalancing
:40:07. > :40:11.takes place. We are all agreed that we need to work on corporation tax
:40:11. > :40:16.so that we can make a final decision on the devolution of these powers by
:40:16. > :40:20.so that we can make a final decision next autumn. I make no apology for
:40:20. > :40:26.being a bit of a salesman today. Some say it is a bit undignified for
:40:26. > :40:30.a Prime Minister. I say nonsense. I am passionate about the power of
:40:30. > :40:34.business to create jobs and growth and I am passionate about what
:40:34. > :40:38.Northern Ireland has to offer. I am here today with the berries and poor
:40:38. > :40:43.message. Put your money in Northern Ireland and be part of this
:40:43. > :40:56.incredible success story. I am joined by Stephen King in, a former
:40:56. > :41:05.chairman of Invest NI. -- Stephen Kingon. We get in front of the Chief
:41:05. > :41:09.chairman of Invest NI. -- Stephen Executive is coming in here that we
:41:09. > :41:10.would not necessarily get to see without the investment conference.
:41:10. > :41:14.would not necessarily get to see It is only part of the process. It
:41:14. > :41:15.is a marketing event and then we have detailed work to follow up to
:41:15. > :41:19.nature that the investors that have have detailed work to follow up to
:41:19. > :41:26.logic will deliver those on the ground. Is it your view that having
:41:27. > :41:29.the Prime Minister involved and wrapping this in an international
:41:29. > :41:32.investment conference actually gets people into the room that you would
:41:32. > :41:37.not get access to under other circumstances? The event itself gets
:41:37. > :41:41.not get access to under other Chief Executive is in that we would
:41:41. > :41:47.not otherwise see. The same thing happened in Washington. But also we
:41:47. > :41:54.get a chance for investors who are already here to give the sort of
:41:54. > :41:57.story and testament to the potential investors. That is much more
:41:57. > :42:05.powerful than anything that we can do locally. 75% of companies who
:42:05. > :42:09.invest in Northern Ireland, as I understand it, reinvest. Once you
:42:09. > :42:17.get the FDIC it is very important. understand it, reinvest. Once you
:42:17. > :42:21.But that is only one segment. We have to increase the number of
:42:21. > :42:29.entrepreneurs and spin out companies that is part of the strategy. Wheels
:42:29. > :42:36.will have to scale and make our business development better -- we
:42:36. > :42:39.also have to. How do you judge the success or otherwise of this
:42:39. > :42:46.conference, how will we know if it has been a success? What we will see
:42:46. > :42:49.over the next 18 months to three years are various announcements.
:42:49. > :42:52.Some of them will have started at this conference. It takes a long
:42:52. > :42:56.time to do the detailed negotiations and then it takes longer to put the
:42:57. > :43:05.jobs on the ground because you have a situation where it, if you do a
:43:05. > :43:09.deal, you get a member of jobs from more to. But it takes several years
:43:09. > :43:18.to put those jobs on the ground. This is a continuous process. But
:43:18. > :43:21.other regions we give their eye teeth to -- would give their eye
:43:21. > :43:24.teeth to have the profile that we have as a small region within a
:43:24. > :43:30.country. You said that foreign have as a small region within a
:43:30. > :43:35.direct investment was part of the approach. But encouraging local
:43:35. > :43:40.entrepreneurs you have said is also important. Is Invest NI doing enough
:43:40. > :43:48.to encourage that part of the economy? Yes, if you look at the
:43:48. > :43:54.investment that Invest NI Putin, more than 50% goes indigenous
:43:54. > :43:57.companies. Foreign investment is very important as well because it
:43:58. > :44:02.shows to people that we are internationally competitive and it
:44:02. > :44:04.brings skill sets and industries that we do not always have your. It
:44:04. > :44:11.allows us to build a base. Even the that we do not always have your. It
:44:11. > :44:15.208 conference which came just that we do not always have your. It
:44:15. > :44:25.before the global financial crisis, we did see things like the New York
:44:25. > :44:27.Stock Exchange and the City comment. Paul Gosling, URI financial
:44:27. > :44:36.journalist, do you think invest NI Paul Gosling, URI financial
:44:36. > :44:48.is doing enough for that part of the framework -- you are a financial
:44:48. > :44:52.journalist? One of the fundamental problems we have is the shortage of
:44:52. > :44:59.skills and graduates in Northern Ireland. One third of graduates go
:44:59. > :45:03.off to Great Britain, half of those do not return. Those are the people
:45:03. > :45:12.that we would be expecting to set up businesses. Head we change that? We
:45:12. > :45:13.need to increase the number of people who become graduates. Those
:45:13. > :45:16.need to increase the number of are the people who will set up
:45:16. > :45:21.businesses and enable other investors to come in. One of the
:45:21. > :45:21.things we need to recognise when we talk about foreign direct
:45:21. > :45:25.investment, there was a report done talk about foreign direct
:45:25. > :45:32.for the Scottish Government a few days ago that said that Northern
:45:32. > :45:38.Ireland has the lowest quantity of foreign investment. We're not
:45:38. > :45:42.setting the high-value operations here. But we were told that London
:45:43. > :45:52.was just second to Londoners for as all of this was concerned. We have
:45:52. > :46:02.the second highest level of FDIC here, but it is not always the kind
:46:02. > :46:09.of FDI that we want. The figure of one third of graduates going off to
:46:09. > :46:16.UK universities, only 2% are going to universities in Northern Ireland.
:46:16. > :46:20.But it is the Republic of Ireland who are bringing in high skill jobs
:46:21. > :46:25.for graduates. Why not bring more of them into the Republic of Ireland,
:46:25. > :46:27.encourage them to study there, where they are much closer to home and
:46:27. > :46:33.more likely to return with the skills that they have required. It
:46:33. > :46:40.is as much about quantity as quality? We need to look at
:46:40. > :46:49.corporation tax so that we can create profit sectors. Let's hear
:46:49. > :46:59.the thoughts. Let's take a look back at the political week that was in
:46:59. > :47:03.the company of Stephen Walker. Northern Ireland met global
:47:03. > :47:05.investors with open arms, but it was against the backdrop of two murders
:47:05. > :47:10.investors with open arms, but it was and security alerts. These
:47:10. > :47:14.dissidents appear to have stepped up their activities over the past
:47:14. > :47:17.couple of days, obviously deliberately aimed at undermining
:47:17. > :47:23.any positivity that might come out of this conference. One-woman's
:47:23. > :47:29.story reignited the debate over abortion. We cannot ignore the
:47:29. > :47:36.voices that are speaking in terms of the pain, the trauma and the
:47:37. > :47:40.anxiety. I am very concerned that people report to me that they are
:47:40. > :47:45.made to feel like beggars and in 2013 and there simply should not be
:47:45. > :47:50.happening. And Martin McGuinness told us a
:47:50. > :47:53.bedtime story. We were lucky enough that we were allocated the Queen 's
:47:53. > :48:05.bedroom. I do not want you to tell anybody. But I had a little snooze
:48:05. > :48:09.on her bed. Stephen Walker reporting. It has
:48:09. > :48:14.been dubbed the British FBI and in England, Scotland and Wales it is
:48:15. > :48:18.already tackling organised crime, child protection and cyber crime.
:48:18. > :48:24.But the National Crime Agency will have limited powers here because
:48:24. > :48:29.Sinn Fein and the SDLP block the legislation. The DUP is not happy
:48:29. > :48:34.and they wanted implemented without fully. Dolores Kelly, the danger has
:48:34. > :48:37.to be that Northern Ireland is no more vulnerable than it needs to be
:48:37. > :48:44.in the face of international organised crime. I do not accept
:48:44. > :48:45.that. I recognise that there needs to be greater coordination across
:48:45. > :48:50.that. I recognise that there needs all of the different agencies and we
:48:50. > :48:53.want to see a National Crime Agency operate here, but we wanted to do so
:48:53. > :49:01.with the highest level of confidence from the public and the highest
:49:01. > :49:04.level of transparency and indeed that it is fully accountable to the
:49:04. > :49:08.policing board and that no operations can take place without
:49:08. > :49:12.the agreement of the chief constable. Which is a separate
:49:12. > :49:17.question from the one I asked you, that we are more vulnerable at the
:49:17. > :49:28.Mormons? The chief constable has said that he gets the highest level
:49:28. > :49:33.of confidence. We want the one secretary and others to listen and
:49:33. > :49:37.also enable the legislation to be brought forward to give us what we
:49:37. > :49:42.need to ensure that the highest level of confidence in policing is
:49:42. > :49:48.continued into the future. You cannot have it both ways. We are
:49:48. > :49:57.either more vulnerable at the moment and come under the wing of the NCA,
:49:57. > :50:02.or we do not need the NCA. It will not take long to sort it out. It has
:50:02. > :50:08.taken a very long time so far. People are not listening who ought
:50:08. > :50:11.to be listening. The SDLP is not alone in this. If we look at the
:50:11. > :50:17.wider debate, not just in the UK Government, with Yvette Cooper. We
:50:17. > :50:19.have also had Hillary Clinton speaking recently and there is
:50:19. > :50:25.have also had Hillary Clinton greater transparency being called
:50:25. > :50:28.for in the USA. Thankfully we are democracy but it does seek to ensure
:50:28. > :50:34.that the policing structures actually accountable and
:50:34. > :50:38.operational. We need those democratic protections and
:50:38. > :50:41.reassurances. Douglas Kelly hinting very strongly that perhaps people
:50:41. > :50:52.like yourself are not listening -- Dolores Kelly. With respect, we have
:50:52. > :50:58.worked with the chief constable and we have the greatest level of
:50:58. > :51:06.accountability in any part of the UK. We will have a situation in
:51:06. > :51:11.which the NCA will not have constable powers in Northern Ireland
:51:12. > :51:15.and indeed on any NCA issue, the chief constable would be accountable
:51:15. > :51:20.to him and the chief constable would be accountable to the board. But
:51:20. > :51:29.what we are seeing, unfortunately, is a degree of outdated dogma from
:51:29. > :51:33.Sinn Fein and the SDLP. But is it? We are in a situation where
:51:33. > :51:37.organised crime has become increasingly sophisticated and is
:51:38. > :51:44.moving beyond borders. Under range of issues, different child sex boy
:51:44. > :51:50.to -- exploitation. This is making things difficult for criminals. That
:51:50. > :51:55.is nothing that any sensible person would want to adopt it. I hope we
:51:55. > :52:09.can find a solution. I think that the chief constable has the greatest
:52:09. > :52:17.erect informant in the NCA of any chief constable in the UK -- the
:52:17. > :52:21.greatest direct involvement. International fraud, cyber crime,
:52:21. > :52:24.this is not about local police accountability, it is about the
:52:24. > :52:31.bigger scale of international crime and at the moment not everyone is
:52:32. > :52:43.happy that we are covered in the way that we should be. We have been
:52:43. > :52:49.working with others to make sure that our concerns can be met. How do
:52:49. > :52:59.you respond to the idea that it is outdated dogma? What is outdated is
:52:59. > :53:07.a level of scrutiny required from the intelligence agencies with the
:53:08. > :53:15.tools that are available to them. Hillary Clinton and Yvette Cooper
:53:15. > :53:19.made that very clear. And the former intelligence director of MI5 and MI6
:53:19. > :53:21.has said that there is a greater need for better intelligence
:53:21. > :53:30.accountability across those security sectors. You have to take that
:53:30. > :53:39.seriously. Dolores Kelly has says it is not about her being a national
:53:39. > :53:40.list. With respect, I think it is about some people being speaks in
:53:40. > :53:45.list. With respect, I think it is that regard. We need to tackle key
:53:45. > :53:48.issues. If it is not brought in the fully in Northern Ireland it links
:53:48. > :53:53.issues. If it is not brought in the us and with the online protection
:53:53. > :54:02.Centre which is vital. That would be denied to Northern Ireland. The
:54:02. > :54:05.danger from a Northern Ireland point of view is not simply that current
:54:05. > :54:09.criminals are allowed to have an easier time, but we will be seen as
:54:09. > :54:13.the weak link in the chain and we will see a situation in which
:54:14. > :54:18.criminals will be coming to Northern Ireland, exploiting that situation
:54:19. > :54:22.for their own ends. I cannot let you go without asking you about the
:54:22. > :54:31.other issue of the week as far as your party is concerned. A High
:54:32. > :54:36.Court ruling that a lifetime ban on gay men donating blood is a
:54:36. > :54:41.rational. And a damning indictment of the way that Edwin Poots has
:54:41. > :54:46.conducted himself. With respect, Edwin Poots will look at the
:54:46. > :54:49.judgement. We have tried to provide the best possible health protection.
:54:49. > :54:54.That has been at the forefront of what we have tried to do throughout
:54:54. > :54:58.this. Completely out of line with the rest of the UK. There has been a
:54:58. > :55:04.debate misinterpretation because there has been a range of... This
:55:04. > :55:10.was the case until a few years ago. There are degrees of band... People
:55:10. > :55:15.are concerned that the Minister has used his own prejudice in making
:55:15. > :55:31.this decision. That is actually what people are concerned about. One has
:55:31. > :55:35.to wonder what is the legal advice, the judges very clearly saying that
:55:35. > :55:42.the minister acted outside of the framework. Thank you very much
:55:42. > :55:47.indeed for coming in to join us. Patricia McBride and Paul Gosling
:55:47. > :55:49.indeed for coming in to join us. are still with me. Patricia McBride,
:55:49. > :55:54.indeed for coming in to join us. do you have reservations about where
:55:54. > :56:00.we are? I am seriously concerned about the fact that ministers using
:56:00. > :56:04.public funds to fund what appears to be his own religious or ethnic
:56:04. > :56:09.agenda, not only the ban on gay men donating blood but also on adoption
:56:09. > :56:14.and other issues. He made dispute it, but the evidence appears to
:56:14. > :56:18.point in that direction. I think we need to have a cohesive policy which
:56:18. > :56:21.is reasonable. We need to acknowledge the fact that blood
:56:21. > :56:26.donation is vital to maintaining life here. The more donors that we
:56:26. > :56:31.can have the better. There is no reason for this and that has been
:56:31. > :56:38.shown both in the UK and in Ireland. There is no reason for this
:56:38. > :56:41.ban. To see the obvious, we need to leave religion out of the centre of
:56:41. > :56:42.politics in Northern Ireland because this seems to come out of a
:56:42. > :56:48.politics in Northern Ireland because religious belief rather than a
:56:48. > :56:51.rational decision-making process. I imagine as a former Victims'
:56:51. > :56:55.Commissioner, we had the current Victims' Commissioner at Stormont
:56:55. > :56:58.this week saying that victims are being made to feel like beggars by
:56:58. > :57:09.the thick arms and survivors service which she says is not acceptable --
:57:09. > :57:11.victims and survivors service. I think that Katherine Stone is
:57:11. > :57:16.absolutely right in what she has said this week. Two years ago when
:57:17. > :57:21.the establishment of the service was being discussed, my colleagues and I
:57:21. > :57:25.warned ministers and officials around the model of assessment that
:57:25. > :57:29.was being used. We said that the level of clinical assessment was not
:57:30. > :57:33.appropriate for the needs of victims and survivors and had the capacity
:57:33. > :57:40.to re-traumatised people. That seems to be what has happened in this
:57:40. > :57:45.instance. But her position has been disputed. The level of assessment is
:57:45. > :57:51.simply not appropriate to the needs of many victims and survivors who
:57:51. > :57:52.need practical help and assistance, who do not need medical assessment
:57:52. > :57:57.in order to be able to pay fuel who do not need medical assessment
:57:57. > :58:03.bills for example. Is this something that you take an interest in?
:58:03. > :58:07.Certainly. Northern Ireland is bogged down with his history but we
:58:07. > :58:21.also need to deal with the trauma of victims. We need to deal with the
:58:21. > :58:24.to Andrew. Ed Miliband reshuffled his
:58:24. > :58:30.ministerial team this week with some commentators calling it the purge of
:58:30. > :58:34.the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane
:58:34. > :58:40.Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on
:58:40. > :58:44.the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending
:58:44. > :58:53.the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.
:58:53. > :58:57.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He talked about message discipline. I
:58:57. > :59:00.think the thing that did it for them was me coming out on Syria. This was
:59:00. > :59:09.think the thing that did it for them a purge of the Blairites, how did
:59:09. > :59:13.you become collateral damage? I have no idea but the fact that I was the
:59:13. > :59:20.one member of the front bench to go public about my concerns on Syria
:59:20. > :59:25.probably tipped my enemies in the party machinery over the edge. But
:59:25. > :59:28.he went your way on Syria, in the end he agreed with your line on
:59:28. > :59:36.Syria so why would that be for dismissal? I agree with you - you're
:59:36. > :59:42.fired. Because I actually spoke up and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:42. > :59:53.which was like a pebble falling in a forest or something. I am glad I
:59:53. > :00:08.spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like people around them than who are
:00:08. > :00:15.outspoken, who speak their minds? I think he's convinced he needs people
:00:15. > :00:18.who read from the scripts. People get scripted and people were
:00:18. > :00:22.increasingly upset that even though get scripted and people were
:00:22. > :00:28.I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr
:00:28. > :00:35.Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his
:00:35. > :00:41.best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour
:00:41. > :00:46.Party chose the right Miliband. I will remain loyal to him on the
:00:46. > :00:52.backbenches. You're going to be loyal? However, I want to join in
:00:52. > :00:58.the debate. You're going to be loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both
:00:58. > :01:02.in public and private when others were bitching about him behind the
:01:02. > :01:06.scenes. When it comes to policy, from the backbenches, I hope to be
:01:06. > :01:10.involved in the debate particularly around nick policy. Et's see how
:01:10. > :01:19.loyal you are. You must be happy with all this new tough talk on
:01:19. > :01:25.welfare and free schools? Well, I think both Rachel and Tristram are
:01:25. > :01:31.very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The
:01:31. > :01:35.issue of free schools, they are one thing. But diminishing the role of
:01:35. > :01:40.local authorities is another. There are a lot of group of childrens,
:01:40. > :01:42.particularly with special needs, who need strong local authorities. I'm
:01:43. > :01:46.particularly with special needs, who sure Tristram will be aware of that.
:01:46. > :01:51.As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories
:01:51. > :01:57.have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms
:01:57. > :02:03.of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would
:02:04. > :02:09.you? What are you on, and lieu? I haven't seen the detail of Rachel's
:02:09. > :02:14.new position. You have to wait and see the detail. It is in the papers.
:02:14. > :02:18.You haven't stopped reading the papers. It was the Observer. When
:02:18. > :02:22.will you announce you're running for Mayor of London? I have no plans to
:02:22. > :02:27.announce that I'm running for Mayor Mayor of London? I have no plans to
:02:27. > :02:31.of London. No plans. That's what Michael his I will Tyne used to tell
:02:31. > :02:36.me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the
:02:36. > :02:41.same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know
:02:41. > :02:46.you're going for it. I know you're going for it. Everybody knows you're
:02:46. > :02:57.going for it. Just fess up to your old mate! ! I have no plans to run.
:02:57. > :03:04.If you did run, who would be, what would be your biggest threat other
:03:04. > :03:11.than yourself? I think there's a lot of very talented candidates, David
:03:11. > :03:17.Lammy, Tessa Jowell, Sadiq Khan. They are all talented. I would have
:03:17. > :03:21.to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of
:03:21. > :03:32.getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of our
:03:32. > :03:35.most loyal viewers of This Week and were taxi drivers and their wives.
:03:35. > :03:40.I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if
:03:40. > :03:46.you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love
:03:46. > :03:51.This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love
:03:51. > :03:56.you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy
:03:56. > :04:01.chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is
:04:01. > :04:05.what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this
:04:05. > :04:10.great programme to go and do something else in politics. She
:04:10. > :04:15.wanted to do something serious. She had taken what appeared to be a low
:04:15. > :04:20.position but taken it extremely serious and was committed to the
:04:20. > :04:30.issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a
:04:30. > :04:36.thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask to
:04:36. > :04:41.step down? No, she got fired. Someone who's an eminent person on
:04:41. > :04:45.this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's
:04:45. > :04:51.missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy
:04:51. > :04:56.man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.
:04:56. > :05:00.So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.
:05:01. > :05:05.We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,
:05:05. > :05:08.you're not insured for. That thanks for being with us.
:05:08. > :05:14.Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well
:05:14. > :05:19.known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside
:05:19. > :05:22.known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally
:05:22. > :05:27.done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor is
:05:27. > :05:32.running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.
:05:32. > :05:36.There may be problems with her campaign. We're agreed she is
:05:36. > :05:44.running? That was a transparent bid for it. She's potentially a very
:05:44. > :05:51.compelling Coll ticks. People have her down as a London Borough
:05:51. > :05:58.left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said
:05:58. > :06:04.he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What
:06:04. > :06:10.do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of
:06:10. > :06:14.connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She
:06:14. > :06:18.would be a very strong candidate in the contest to be the Labour
:06:18. > :06:24.candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if
:06:24. > :06:30.Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger
:06:30. > :06:34.for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party
:06:34. > :06:38.activists that wins the party primary but isn't necessarily a shoe
:06:38. > :06:44.in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally
:06:44. > :06:49.a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big
:06:49. > :06:54.dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody
:06:54. > :06:59.who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do
:06:59. > :07:05.well. Londoners respond to that. We've only had mayors so far that
:07:05. > :07:09.were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:09. > :07:16.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing
:07:17. > :07:24.than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't just stray on Syria, it was immigration.
:07:24. > :07:30.Why was Jeremy brown replaced by Norman Baker at the Home Office?
:07:30. > :07:35.This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those
:07:35. > :07:38.people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into
:07:38. > :07:44.coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there are
:07:44. > :07:50.some holy areas of policy, sacred areas which they will defend. That
:07:50. > :07:53.includes civil liberties. In the Home Office, that incident with the
:07:53. > :07:59.immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went
:07:59. > :08:02.down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home
:08:02. > :08:07.Office it is crucial you have somebody there to put a shield on
:08:07. > :08:13.that. We've had fun at his appointment, there's a proper
:08:13. > :08:16.purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg has won the argument against the
:08:16. > :08:21.left, Vince Cable on the economy, away day in July, briefings say
:08:21. > :08:25.DrCable's been put in his box. He's won the argument on economic policy
:08:25. > :08:29.against the left. When it comes to the touchstone issue in the Home
:08:29. > :08:33.Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The
:08:33. > :08:37.Guardian. This is important for Liberal Democrat voters. T's
:08:37. > :08:42.something else going on which is that Nick Clegg has to keep his
:08:42. > :08:47.parliamentary party happy. That involves giving them ministerial
:08:47. > :08:54.jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats losing their jobs, Michael Moore,
:08:54. > :09:00.Jeremy Browne, are Lunn lucky because vacancies have to be created
:09:00. > :09:05.for number people to come in. By 2015 an astonishing number of
:09:05. > :09:09.Liberal Democrat MPs will have been on the payroll. It is effective
:09:09. > :09:16.party management. I want to move on to press regulation. Brian Leveson's
:09:16. > :09:21.famous report, appeared before the parliamentary select committee. I
:09:21. > :09:26.will run you a clip from Connor Burns, out of the Westminster
:09:26. > :09:32.consensus. I bitterly regret politicians got involved in this. We
:09:32. > :09:38.moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord
:09:38. > :09:43.Leveson wanted a system the press took a lead on. Voluntary
:09:43. > :09:49.self-regulation. This is state involvement which I worry about
:09:49. > :09:52.profoundly. He sits on the media select committee which does
:09:52. > :09:57.interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier
:09:57. > :10:01.he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed
:10:01. > :10:06.Royal Charter. I think he's totally wrong. I think he thinks they
:10:06. > :10:11.should. But he did say they would. I think he's wrong. They won't sign
:10:11. > :10:15.up. All the mood music when that Royal Charter was agreed on Friday
:10:15. > :10:20.was they would not sign up. It is interesting that the Government,
:10:20. > :10:24.Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't
:10:24. > :10:26.sign up, the Royal charter will go ahead. I cannot control the Labour
:10:26. > :10:29.sign up, the Royal charter will go Party and the Liberal Democrats.
:10:29. > :10:33.What you might do, she's saying, the industry is wind the clock back to
:10:33. > :10:41.what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,
:10:41. > :10:46.Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory
:10:46. > :10:51.regulation. Maria Miller says you may not like this sort of
:10:51. > :10:55.regulation, stat industry -- statutory legislation but if you
:10:55. > :11:03.don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing
:11:03. > :11:07.the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.
:11:07. > :11:12.Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't
:11:12. > :11:17.work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was
:11:17. > :11:22.going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers
:11:22. > :11:29.now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route
:11:29. > :11:34.and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will take
:11:34. > :11:42.it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They will
:11:42. > :11:46.fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in
:11:46. > :11:50.that. The big political question going forward is which of the party
:11:50. > :11:54.leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press
:11:54. > :12:00.regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband
:12:00. > :12:04.the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian
:12:04. > :12:08.Leveson. You appoint a judge who loves rules, anti-press, you
:12:08. > :12:14.shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big
:12:14. > :12:19.chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who
:12:19. > :12:28.opened this. You may not have intended what will happen. If he had
:12:28. > :12:33.a majority Government he wouldn't have appointed Brian Leveson. If
:12:33. > :12:39.they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that to
:12:39. > :12:46.Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to
:12:46. > :12:50.suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of
:12:50. > :12:52.Human Rights. They'll have to suspend that. We must never come out
:12:52. > :12:55.of the European Convention. suspend that. We must never come out
:12:55. > :13:02.Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major
:13:02. > :13:04.constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was
:13:05. > :13:10.constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie
:13:10. > :13:14.ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said
:13:14. > :13:20.freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.
:13:20. > :13:25.The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.
:13:25. > :13:27.I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles
:13:27. > :13:31.at our usual time of 11.00am. If Communities Secretary Eric Pickles
:13:31. > :13:38.it's Sunday, it is the Sunday politics.